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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 06-12-2003, 02:17 PM   #31

I think Jason said that he initially agreed to send another gecko, but then there were no photos or vet reports forthcoming, so he chose not to.
Okay, that would make sense. If I were in his position I wouldn't replace anything without a vet report or photos of the animals involved.

I am wondering how long Gary had them before they died and what are Jason's TOS?
Old 06-12-2003, 03:35 PM   #32
photos and report

after the first one died and i explain the others where sick he offered the babies he was hatching. and since he trusted me i trusted him to send them. even when he told me he didn't have money to ship the one, i still trusted him. thought there was a two way trust. should have listen to another breeder who told me to trust only what you have in writing before you. now i realize even with the vet letter tomorrow i'll most likely still will lose on the sick albinos. well learn two things pay by paypal and no more trusting. but at least the vet letter will prove i am telling the truth.

Gary Bolton
Old 06-12-2003, 04:03 PM   #33
what are Jason's TOS?
This is what's on his website right now, not sure if this was in effect when the animals were sold.

All animals are guaranteed live arrival, as long as there is someone at home at the time of delivery. If you are not going to be at home, please have me ship to your work, or on another day, when you'll be at home.

I also guarantee the health of all animals, as long as you contact me as soon as you notice a problem. All animals should eat within 24 hours of arriving at your home. Most will eat and drink right out of the box.

All animals are guaranteed healthy and eating well.

In the case of a DOA, I will refund any money paid minus shipping. Or if possible, replace the animal with another of the same or better quality. In the case of a replacement animal, the buyer must pay for shipping on the second animal. Also, I must be contacted within 24 hours of delivery, if there is an unfortunate loss due to delayed or extreme weather shipping. Proof must be provided of the DOA. Including, but not limited to: photographs, receipts, and shipping the animal back to me.

Sounds to me like he requires proof for refund or replacement.
Old 06-12-2003, 04:33 PM   #34
Question PHOTOS

Judging by the TOS it would seem Jason requires photos as part of that proof. The vet report will be interesting.

Did he take photos of the dead ones?

Without pics it might be difficult for Gary to get a replacement because he hasn't honored the TOS that require pics.

The TOS are applied to a DOA for a refund, not to something that died a short while later. But there appears to be no time frame for a sick animal or for one that dies shortly after arriving in regards to getting a refund.

I might be wrong, but a week after an animal dies you should be eligible for a refund according to the TOS.
Old 06-12-2003, 05:04 PM   #35
Just curious

I only read through some of the post, so I may be repeating a question here, BUT wouldn't Hay's have other dead geckos at own place if he had sick gecko's, cause wouldn't those same ones he sent to Gary infect his (Hay's) own? Does that make sense??? Anyone get what I'm saying????
Old 06-12-2003, 05:15 PM   #36

BUT wouldn't Hay's have other dead geckos at own place if he had sick gecko's, cause wouldn't those same ones he sent to Gary infect his (Hay's) own? Does that make sense??? Anyone get what I'm saying????
Valid point and one no one has brought up!
Old 06-12-2003, 05:38 PM   #37
Darin Chappell
It is a valid point, and one that I considered, but (assuming for the moment and the sake of argument that Hay's was a corrupt individual/business) why would Hay's EVER admit to that being the case??? Gary already distrusts Hay's, so why should he believe him when he says his animals are all doing fine? If Hay's were to come on and say "Yep, all my collection is dead/dying from it too!" he would be an honest individual, but such a person would have also sent a refund/replacement right off the bat, knowing he had sent sick animals.

So, if Hay's were honest enough to say his reps were sick, he'd be honest enough to handle the matter correctly. If he says they're fine, it could very well be that Hay's is being honest, and they really are fine, but you're never going to convince Gary of that!

All in all, I think we'd be running around the barn for very little outcome on that question. Just mho, though.
Old 06-12-2003, 06:02 PM   #38
It's always possible that someone who has been to Hay's or is in the know might be able to answer that question, not just Hay's!

Otherwise, at this point I don't see that Jason has done anything wrong so far, so maybe we had better just accept his answer if he responds to this and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Old 06-12-2003, 06:18 PM   #39
Darin Chappell
Oh, please don't get what I typed above wrong! I wasn't questioning Jason's credibility there at all . . .I was only trying to see things from every point of view. I have just never been one to take a person's description of his own position in an argument to be verified fact, without the type of outside testimony you suggested.

Documentation is the key to any position on the BOI. I was just pointing out the possible flaws in what was stated, that's all.
Old 06-12-2003, 06:42 PM   #40
I thought that too...

I thought the same things, but just wondered if the question had been posed and if so had anyone seen Hay's animals, or possibly bought some gecko's at the same time. It does seem to me that it's odd that Gary's geckos all fell ill and died, yet he also had some gecko's from elsewhere that could have very well brought the infection in too. Like I saw posted several times, quarantine, quarantine, quarantine!!!!!

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