Yvonne Carpenter - Boas By Satyra

As far as I can tell, nothing was ever mentioned of the IBD on RTB.net.
It was only here on that other Bad Guy thread..
Right now the snakes she had during that time are up for auction for a fundraiser on RTB.

Thread on RTB:
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/boa...boa-dying.html

Look at the date that thread was posted, the necropsy report mentioned here which is suspected IBD from the vet report:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...&postcount=172
and the and the posting of these ads:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ight=SakaraGT4

Whatever Yvonne owes you is NOTHING compared to the devastation which would be caused if whatever killed the snake in question hitched a ride on one of the snakes that was sold... Skating on thin ice.

the issue with that snake was over a year ago and it was mentioned on RTB... I've had 3 snakes, a burm, retic and a boa all tested after passing from unrelated causes tested by toxicology on brain, liver and intestine tissues and none had any issues... None of my snakes are sick or have any problems...

also, that "2 week" comment was incorrect as I stated later, but leave that out of course The only time that snake was even in the same room as any other animal was during the move to the new house and it was never in contact with any animal I have... And also, after speaking with Dr. Jameson, he stated that the virus is passed from body fluids or sharing stuff between snakes and not airborne... Nothing was ever shared between snakes, no bins, no water bowls, nothing...

Also, Yvonne's animals were in the same house and 2 of hers were housed with mine for breeding attempts and she knew about the snake as well and also believed the tox was incorrect on the "inclusions" found, which our vet that we use believes that inclusions were formed due to the pneumonia that was shown in the tox report and not IBD related considering no other snakes are sick or have been sick or had any issues and the other snakes that passed due to other reasons did not show any signs of any other issues or inclusions in any brain, liver or intestine tissues...

I also trust my current vet who sent off tissue for tox the same day as their date of death for 3 different animals MUCH more than the vet that sent samples for tox on that snake in question after a week... I only wish I had taken that snake to my vet rather then the one I did considering that vet felt it was ok to take his time with it...

Yeah this annoys me

is my collection in jeopardy? I highly doubt that considering this snake was isolated in a seperate room all but the move date. I have talked to many ppl about this and done so much research about diseases and stuff since he died.

You moved into the new house at the END of Sept 09, the snake was purchased around MID Sept..and DIED in Nov. 09..but you said it was "isolated untill you moved and then it was kept with your snakes for around 2 weeks"..
You claimed countless times you practiced standard quarantine. Even when confronted about more snake purchases you made in the days immediately following the death of the BCL...
Clearly your quarantine standards are different than everyone else's because it doesn't count if you move the snake in with your existing collection for any amount of time..

I can't believe after KNOWING you had an IBD death you would even consider breeding loans, additions, and sales..You have snakes in your collection CURRENTLY that were exposed to that.

The new animal was in the living room at the old place, not in the snake room... And when we got to the new house he was in a separate room... And I did not buy any snakes "days immediately following the death of the BCL" ??????? I didn't add any new snakes until the following spring... If you are talking about the het albinos, they were purchased quite a bit before the BCL passed... And they were all kept in the other extra room in another rack, which I'm SURE you can find pics of since you are "researching"

And as I already stated... My vet believes the inclusions found were due to the pneumonia and NOT IBD... And considering I have had tox done on several tissues in 3 other snakes that had actually been there BEFORE and DURING the time the BCL was in the same house that had NO inclusions, INCLUDING 2 pythons that would have shown it before a boa would, and probably would have died due to it if it was there at all in the first place tells me and my vet agrees, that the BCL died from the pneumonia, not IBD... And speaking of pythons... Why would my pythons be alive still anyway if there was IBD? Pythons die within WEEKS of being exposed... And all my pythons are still here except the 2 that died due to other issues and had tox reports done on them after their deaths that showed NO inclusions...

Originally Posted by SakaraGT4

the issue with that snake was over a year ago and it was mentioned on RTB... I've had 3 snakes, a burm, retic and a boa all tested after passing from unrelated causes tested by toxicology on brain, liver and intestine tissues and none had any issues... None of my snakes are sick or have any problems...

4 snakes dying in the past year indicates a potential problem...
Especially when a VET states it's had a parasite, pneumonia, and inclusion bodies. BTW...respiratory infections are common side effects of IBD, and often the cause of death is listed as pneumonia, or RI.

You obviously felt confident in your necropsy results enough to demand your money back 2 months after the BCL was purchased from Dean, and post on the BOI Bad Guy thread.. So I think your claims about lacking confidence in your vet are malarkey.

also, that "2 week" comment was incorrect as I stated later, but leave that out of course The only time that snake was even in the same room as any other animal was during the move to the new house and it was never in contact with any animal I have...

LOL...What part of QUARANTINE is eluding you?? That is NOT proper quarantine. You have claimed all along how stringent your practices are, but clearly they are as clear as your credibility at this point.

And also, after speaking with Dr. Jameson, he stated that the virus is passed from body fluids or sharing stuff between snakes and not airborne... Nothing was ever shared between snakes, no bins, no water bowls, nothing...

I assume you mean Dr. JACOBSON.. which THIS was taken from his paper on IBD:

Transmission:
Exact route of transmission has not been identified. Possibly by: 1) direct contact; 2) intrauterine transmission to developing embryos in viviparous species and eggs in oviparous species; 3) venereal transmission. The snake mite, Ophionyssus natricis has been implicated as a vector for the virus since mite infestations are commonly seen in epizootics of IBD.

Also, Yvonne's animals were in the same house and 2 of hers were housed with mine for breeding attempts and she knew about the snake as well and also believed the tox was incorrect on the "inclusions" found,

sooooo NOW you've changed your mind about the death of that snake being IBD..So nice of you to update the "BAD GUY" thread about Dean in which you ADAMANTLY accused him of selling you an IBD infested snake and threatened him with legal recourse.

which our vet that we use believes that inclusions were formed due to the pneumonia that was shown in the tox report and not IBD related

The presence of inclusion bodies generally means IBD, I was told.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that you would have garnered that 2nd opinion, or retracted your libelious statement against Dean in regards to the death of this snake.

I also trust my current vet who sent off tissue for tox the same day as their date of death for 3 different animals MUCH more than the vet that sent samples for tox on that snake in question after a week... I only wish I had taken that snake to my vet rather then the one I did considering that vet felt it was ok to take his time with it...

It's amazing how you have gone from trusting this vet so fully as to threaten a lawsuit, but now have had a complete turnaround because it suits your reputation to do so..

Originally Posted by SakaraGT4

The new animal was in the living room at the old place, not in the snake room... And when we got to the new house he was in a separate room... And I did not buy any snakes "days immediately following the death of the BCL" ??????? I didn't add any new snakes until the following spring... If you are talking about the het albinos, they were purchased quite a bit before the BCL passed... And they were all kept in the other extra room in another rack, which I'm SURE you can find pics of since you are "researching"

And as I already stated... My vet believes the inclusions found were due to the pneumonia and NOT IBD... And considering I have had tox done on several tissues in 3 other snakes that had actually been there BEFORE and DURING the time the BCL was in the same house that had NO inclusions, INCLUDING 2 pythons that would have shown it before a boa would, and probably would have died due to it if it was there at all in the first place tells me and my vet agrees, that the BCL died from the pneumonia, not IBD... And speaking of pythons... Why would my pythons be alive still anyway if there was IBD? Pythons die within WEEKS of being exposed... And all my pythons are still here except the 2 that died due to other issues and had tox reports done on them after their deaths that showed NO inclusions...

You amaze me..You pick a scenario that suits your needs at the time and run with it..You accused a man (while he may well be a BAD GUY) of exposing your collection to IBD..based on a vet necropsy that now that it's turned around that YOU may be exposing others to IBD is invalid?

Respiratory infections are part and partial to IBD..that's usually the listed cause of death..The ONLY thing that distinguishes the IBD is the presence of INCLUSION BODIES.

Even your husband in his confrontation over the death of the snake said "A Boa can last several months without exhibiting any signs of IBD"

YOU posted that the snake was "separated EXCEPT for a 2wk period of time that he was kept with the other snakes while we moved" How much more CLEAR does that have to be??

Even the guy you bought the snake from initially ASKED you WHY you were selling snakes KNOWING you had IBD in your collection??

Ashley, you're exposed for your unethical behavior, your credibility is SHOT as far as I can tell.

Oops, I meant Jacobson, my bad, used to have a friend named Jameson and I screwed up

And I can't "clear" someone, meaning Dean, who has sold other people sick snakes, most around the same time that I received the BCL... So IF the BCL had IBD, then what about those other people's snakes? including a breeder of blood pythons... Are you going to bring those ppl into this as well?

That snake WAS quarantined in a SEPARATE ROOM, which I already stated... It was in the living room before the move while the other snakes were in the 2nd bedroom and it was in one of the guest bedrooms at the new house after we moved in and the het albinos were in the OTHER guest bedroom...

I was told that inclusions CAN be IBD but can also be inclusions that form to fight other infections and illnesses...

the 4 snakes that died....

The BCL, which you all know...

A yearling Jampea that I had received from an ex member on RTB that died from starvation... The animal was at least a year old and was the size of a hatchling... I don't know when the last time that animal had been fed before I got her...

A boa who died from a Pyrometra which is a uterine infection after she became gravid by Yvonne's double het snow, Moose... I'm not blaming it on either snake, it happens in mammals as well... But so you know, that same animal is the future daddy to her moonglow litter by Lola, her triple het, IF you care to know...

The last was my burmese python who died from liver and kidney failure which the toxicologist said was probably from prior starvation... She was at least 4 years old and hardly 10ft. The previous owner I got her from fed her "conservatively" so I have no idea what he fed her and how often... I owned her for over a year before she passed

Originally Posted by amercnwmn

You amaze me..You pick a scenario that suits your needs at the time and run with it..You accused a man (while he may well be a BAD GUY) of exposing your collection to IBD..based on a vet necropsy that now that it's turned around that YOU may be exposing others to IBD is invalid?

Respiratory infections are part and partial to IBD..that's usually the listed cause of death..The ONLY thing that distinguishes the IBD is the presence of INCLUSION BODIES.

Even your husband in his confrontation over the death of the snake said "A Boa can last several months without exhibiting any signs of IBD"

YOU posted that the snake was "separated EXCEPT for a 2wk period of time that he was kept with the other snakes while we moved" How much more CLEAR does that have to be??

Even the guy you bought the snake from initially ASKED you WHY you were selling snakes KNOWING you had IBD in your collection??

Ashley, you're exposed for your unethical behavior, your credibility is SHOT as far as I can tell.

and as I stated AFTER this statement, that I was wrong in writing 2 weeks... It was like a couple days if that... If you go back and look, you will see where I posted that... The animal was in a moving truck in the same area with other snakes and placed in the same area for a day while we moved in... Then placed in his own room... The het albinos were also placed in their own room as soon as I got them

It was NOT 2 weeks, as I already stated here AND in the other thread(s)

you are missing the point, yet again..
By placing that snake in with the others for an hour, 2 hours, 2 weeks 2 months, you exposed them to whatever that snake had.

Granted, the exposure level would be lessened.

Let's face it..You've backtracked on your story so many times it's impossible to tell the truth anymore.
I tend to go with what was ORIGINALLY stated.

And I can't "clear" someone, meaning Dean, who has sold other people sick snakes, most around the same time that I received the BCL... So IF the BCL had IBD, then what about those other people's snakes? including a breeder of blood pythons... Are you going to bring those ppl into this as well?

This is ludicrous...Your character is in question, PERIOD.

I'm not expecting you to CLEAR him of ALL wrong doing, especially not pertaining to dealings you had no part in...Be realistic. You are acting insanely childish to insinuate that's the expectation, here.

What people EXPECT is that you come here with FACTS, stand by what you claim elsewhere, and be HONEST and forthcoming.

You have hidden the fact from many buyers of your snakes that you have had a snake in your collection turn up with IBD on a necropsy, PERIOD. This information was stumbled upon while trying to find THIS thread. It's out there for public record, because YOU put it there.

A simple follow up clearing the air on an accusation YOU MADE regarding necropsy findings indicating the presence of IBD would have been appropriate, and ethical... Instead you have allowed the accusation to stand and you seem to expect everyone to believe your "sudden change of confidence" in your vet, now when you are under scrutiny and your collection's health is being questioned.