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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 12-08-2010, 10:19 PM   #131
crotalusadamanteus
Yeah, maybe so. I admit to not scrolling back through the thread.
 
Old 12-08-2010, 10:20 PM   #132
amercnwmn
It happens!
 
Old 12-08-2010, 10:56 PM   #133
reticguy76
Yes. Let me clarify. I am a veterinary technician certified in emergency/critical care and special emphasis on reptile/amphibian emergency medicine. Special emphasis means nothing on paper as far as a certificate. Now, the lab reports I was generalizing. Most lab reports come back, " so and so, consistent with whatever, in most cases, but not all. That was my point with an ibd lab report. Now, I do believe ibd is a disease and a bad one at that, I've seen animals with it. My point is that there is so many variables and unknowns left about ibd. But, one thing I've learned in veterinary medicine (and medicine in general), it's not an exact science. New diseases, cures, and research is being done everyday. Nothing is exact or 100% in medicine.
 
Old 12-08-2010, 11:02 PM   #134
reticguy76
Just something to mull over that happened in my clinic a few weeks ago. We had a trouble breathing dog come in. He died. We sent off lung tissue to two different labs. One came back negative for valley fever, the other tested positive. It's ways possible that tissue or blood samples that collected and sent in, may not contain yet infected areas, therefore bring back potential false negative results. Hence, medicine is not 100%, never will be. You get the best diagnosis you can, treat and see what happens. You guy by a combo of clinical signs and what is seen diagnostically (x-rays, bloodwork, cytology, etc) and treat the best you know how and can
 
Old 12-08-2010, 11:21 PM   #135
reticguy76
Disclaimer - I don't know all there is to know on this subject, not do I claim to. I'm just goin on professional experience as well as what I have (and haven't) read in texts or articles. All I have ever read from research veterinarians and biologists and such is theories and hyothesis. Although, I feel alot are very accurate and are probably as close to being true as possible. There are just not a ton of doctors and scientists with an interest in snake ibd to have the proper funds and requirements for good, accurate testing procedures. What a relief when we finally get good, pure, solid theories and research finally answered the best we can
 
Old 12-09-2010, 08:28 AM   #136
crotalusadamanteus
I was just making the point that, although we only "theorize" the methods of transmission, I believe it's been more then proved that it is definitely a contagion.
 
Old 12-09-2010, 09:38 AM   #137
reticguy76
im still not fully sold that it is "truely contagious" as opposed to we dont really know the origin or cause of it (ie, mites, airborne, etc). while i do agree that in most cases, if one comes down with ibd, chances are high that the entire or at least most of the collection will come down with it. but, with that said, if it is the snake mite for example, what if the mites only get on some of the clutch. there is documentation of only certain snakes in collections having ibd and other boids not "contracting" it. so, does it work like a tick fever or lymes disease where it is transmitted through a host ? who fully knows at this point. i dont go searching every five minutes on up to date ibd reports or research, but i try to keep up with it regularly and to my knowledge, i havent heard anything that without a doubt it is contagious or isolated.
 
Old 12-09-2010, 09:51 AM   #138
crotalusadamanteus
" im still not fully sold that it is "truely contagious" as opposed to we dont really know the origin or cause of it (ie, mites, airborne, etc). while i do agree that in most cases, if one comes down with ibd, chances are high that the entire or at least most of the collection will come down with it."


Um, how else would most if not the entire collection get it if its NOT contagious?

You contradict yourself.
 
Old 12-09-2010, 09:52 AM   #139
hboyles66
I think the point of this thread is not whether or not IBD is how IBD is spread as it id about how Ashley did not use proper quarantine proceedures before intorducing a new animal into her collection. By not doing do it could have possibly containminated her whole collection. When she got the test results back she should have gone on lock down. Nothing in and nothing out. That is what everyone else has or should do if they have a even close scare with IBD. IMO of course. She was proved in a few contadictions and people should be aware of this if just to let everyone know that she is somewhat reckless in her proccedures. I realize that not everyone is perfect but we all know that IBD should be taking with caution as we don't have enough clear facts to say one diagnosis for sure. She said she had a confirmed case of IBD but still continued to sell snakes out of the same collection that the IBD confirmed snake came from. That shows carelessness. Later she was called out and said the first vets finding could have been wrong only after she was called out. That is a little suspicious. She also has had other snakes die in the same collection where she said IBD was found. That should send up a red flag to her to stop bringing in or selling any animals until she can make sure her collection is okay. I am in no way saying her collection is sick but I strongly believe she should stop vending shows and selling animals and taking in others animals until she has a good amount of time without incident in her collection and can have test to help clear her collection. Am I correct in that assumption? I keep a strict quarantine room that is sanitized and cleaned weekly and all snakes are kept in that room for 6 months before goinf into my personnal collection. It does take longer to make my snake room look good but it keeps any diseases and or problems away from the snakes I breed or sell. Ashley you should do the right thing and stop buying and selling snakes until you can clearly provide proof that there are no issues in your snake room.
 
Old 12-09-2010, 10:25 AM   #140
reticguy76
what im sayin, is if it is the snake mite (which is one of the strong theories) that is presenting as a host then, spreading to the collection if/when a snake gets mites or has mites already. i dont consider that contagious. i consider that host transmission. i fully believe that ibd is transmitted, but how ? is it throught host transmission, is it through, bodily contact/fluids (ie, breeding, oral discharch if in the same cage, etc) is it just being in the same area? thats what im sayin.

maybe im just too technical and nitpicking these terms
 

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