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Old 12-03-2010, 06:34 PM   #81
amercnwmn
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewZaun
Ashley you mentioned you have another vet report on that boa that contradicts the IBD findings? Any chance you can get that posted?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SakaraGT4
I didn't say that, lol...
Ashley you are contradicting yourself again...

From here:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...207270&page=14

Quote:
our vet that we use believes that inclusions were formed due to the pneumonia that was shown in the tox report and not IBD related considering no other snakes are sick or have been sick or had any issues and the other snakes that passed due to other reasons did not show any signs of any other issues or inclusions in any brain, liver or intestine tissues...
It's already been established that testing negative for IBD does not necessarily CLEAR your collection.

Quote:
My vet believes the inclusions found were due to the pneumonia and NOT IBD... And considering I have had tox done on several tissues in 3 other snakes that had actually been there BEFORE and DURING the time the BCL was in the same house that had NO inclusions, INCLUDING 2 pythons that would have shown it before a boa would, and probably would have died due to it if it was there at all in the first place tells me and my vet agrees, that the BCL died from the pneumonia, not IBD... And speaking of pythons... Why would my pythons be alive still anyway if there was IBD? Pythons die within WEEKS of being exposed... And all my pythons are still here except the 2 that died due to other issues and had tox reports done on them after their deaths that showed NO inclusions...
First of all, you claim to have tox reports on the 3 other snakes that died within the past year since you received a positive diagnosis of IBD..now you are saying you haven't had any tests done.

Secondly, I don't know where you found all this misinformation about Pythons and IBD. I've found 2ndhand accounts and speculation regarding it in forums, but that's where regurgitating information without researching a problem for oneself can lead to a WORLD of problems.
 
Old 12-03-2010, 07:44 PM   #82
RachelSS
Courtney, thank you for that information from Dr. Jacobson about pythons succumbing faster and having more expression of symptoms.
 
Old 12-03-2010, 07:44 PM   #83
RachelSS
er, i wish I could edit my post. DISPROVING that pythons succumb faster****
 
Old 12-03-2010, 07:54 PM   #84
amercnwmn
Thought for a minute there I completely missed something..lol
 
Old 12-03-2010, 08:38 PM   #85
Skiploder
Quote:
Originally Posted by SakaraGT4 View Post
the everything else, was what I told the vet what I saw... over the weekend that the vet had the snake, alive, he told me that she was acting better and normal... And no, they didn't try to treat her for anything... IBD snakes don't act better, they deteriorate no matter how fast or slow it happens
Not necessarily.

Remember, IBD often expresses itself in a series of subclinical or acute ailments, indicating a breakdown in the immune system.

I had IBD that showed up in two long term sonoran dwarf boas. The male began suffering from subclinical infections and, after liver and esophageal biopsies, was found to have IBD. The female was asymptomatic but also was put down because inclusion bodies were found in her liver biopsy.

The male was "successfully" treated for his secondary ailments time and time again until I put him down. There was no getting worse or quietly falling apart. He'd get and RI- it could be treated. He'd then have another small issue, and it was treated. If my vet had not put two and two together, I could still be wondering what the heck was going on.

Yep, no stargazing, and none of the other neurological symptoms everyone is so paranoid about.

This ongoing BS about pythons dying quickly after exposure and snakes NOT being asymptomatic carrier for years upon years is tiring. Dr. Jacobson has taken the time to answer e-mails from just about everyone I know who has contacted him.

When the foremost authority on this disease is so willing to share what he knows with the community, it's maddening when people still spew the same tired old half truths and faulty conventional wisdom from Kraplan's site and other care sheets that over simplify and mislead on this disease.

What amazes me most about IBD is that while people are buying more and more snakes, they can't spare $20 to send to Dr. Jacobson at U of F to further his research and hopefully help fund more affordable and more reliable diagnostic tests or a potential "cure."

Nope, according to the good Dr. himself, there has been little to no financial help from the reptile community and certainly not from some of the largest boid names in the industry - some of whom openly say that IBD is not as big an issue as it's made out to be.
 
Old 12-03-2010, 08:42 PM   #86
sally-dog
You go, Craig!

Excellent post.
 
Old 12-03-2010, 08:44 PM   #87
sally-dog
Quote:
When the foremost authority on this disease is so willing to share what he knows with the community, it's maddening when people still spew the same tired old half truths and faulty conventional wisdom from Kraplan's site and other care sheets that over simplify and mislead on this disease.
This is where the majority of info on this disease gets regurgitated from. Most people do not count her site as a credible source, as it is very outdated.
 
Old 12-03-2010, 09:00 PM   #88
amercnwmn
Exactly, and Craig that was brilliant, thank you so much for sharing your experience.

I think anyone who has lost a large collection, or has experienced this harbors some sensitivity to the subject of spreading false information that can prove devastating to collections.

It's firsthand accounts ALONG with documentation from new research that will help dispell the regurged info.
Over the years I've seen so much of this in regards to various aspects of snake keeping. Usually it's harmless, mindless drivel, and oftentimes it's actually pretty reliable information.
Other times it's detrimental to an animal's well being and possibly endangering other animals.
 
Old 12-03-2010, 10:12 PM   #89
The BoidSmith
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiploder View Post
Not necessarily.

Remember, IBD often expresses itself in a series of subclinical or acute ailments, indicating a breakdown in the immune system.

I had IBD that showed up in two long term sonoran dwarf boas. The male began suffering from subclinical infections and, after liver and esophageal biopsies, was found to have IBD. The female was asymptomatic but also was put down because inclusion bodies were found in her liver biopsy.

The male was "successfully" treated for his secondary ailments time and time again until I put him down. There was no getting worse or quietly falling apart. He'd get and RI- it could be treated. He'd then have another small issue, and it was treated. If my vet had not put two and two together, I could still be wondering what the heck was going on.

Yep, no stargazing, and none of the other neurological symptoms everyone is so paranoid about.

This ongoing BS about pythons dying quickly after exposure and snakes NOT being asymptomatic carrier for years upon years is tiring. Dr. Jacobson has taken the time to answer e-mails from just about everyone I know who has contacted him.

When the foremost authority on this disease is so willing to share what he knows with the community, it's maddening when people still spew the same tired old half truths and faulty conventional wisdom from Kraplan's site and other care sheets that over simplify and mislead on this disease.

What amazes me most about IBD is that while people are buying more and more snakes, they can't spare $20 to send to Dr. Jacobson at U of F to further his research and hopefully help fund more affordable and more reliable diagnostic tests or a potential "cure."

Nope, according to the good Dr. himself, there has been little to no financial help from the reptile community and certainly not from some of the largest boid names in the industry - some of whom openly say that IBD is not as big an issue as it's made out to be.
It would be nice for those that had made a living out of selling reptiles to have an option built in their price stating "do you wish to donate "x" amount towards IBD research @ UFl. Of course there would have to be a way to ensure that the donated money goes in effect towards that cause.
 
Old 12-03-2010, 10:17 PM   #90
RachelSS
Quote:
Originally Posted by The BoidSmith View Post
It would be nice for those that had made a living out of selling reptiles to have an option built in their price stating "do you wish to donate "x" amount towards IBD research @ UFl. Of course there would have to be a way to ensure that the donated money goes in effect towards that cause.
This... is a fantastic idea.
 

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