Ken of Exotic Pets in Las Vegas*BAD*

On July the 8th I made a trade with Ken from Exotic Pets in Las Vegas. I sent him 1.1 2002 pair of white-sided black rats, and I was to get 1.3 Taiwan Beauty Snakes. The white-sides showed up at his door at 8:48am and he was not there to get the snakes. At 1:02pm he signed for the snakes. at 8:14pm he sends me an email say Thanks for the effort but they are dead.

Heres a copy of his email

Well hell. The snakes arrived, both dead from the heat. A great shame, as they were both just what I was looking for. If you need verification of the deaths, I can either send you a photo, or I can freeze them and send them back to you in the mail, your choice. The temp here is about 115 degrees, an uninsulated box with plastic containers in it will just not cut it in this heat. I'm sorry. Thanks for the effort, Ken

Heres my reply

Thanks for my effort? The box showed up at your door at 8:48am and you was not at the address to claim the box. I have ship the same way for the summer for the last 10 years with no problems. The styrophome also holds heat in a box which is why I dont use it. How do you want to take care of this?

Bobby Pruett
Arboreals Etc...
http://www.corallus.com/arborealsetc
http://www.rhacodactylus.net
419-621-7927
----- Original Message -----
From: ExoticPetsLV@aol.com
To: lbcreptiles@lrbcg.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Message about: Taiwan Beauty Snakes

Heres a copy of the Fed-Ex tracking
Tracking number
791627067084
Signed for by
K.R
Ship date
Jul 8, 2003
Delivery date/time
Jul 9, 2003 1:02 pm

Delivered to
Recept/Frnt desk
Delivery location
LAS VEGAS NV
Service type
Priority Overnight



Date/time
Status
Location
Comments


Jul 9, 2003 1:02 pm
Delivered
LAS VEGAS NV


8:48 am
Delivery attempt
LAS VEGAS NV
Customer not available or Business closed


8:07 am
On FedEx vehicle for delivery
NORTH LAS VEGAS NV




7:19 am
Arrived at FedEx Destination Location
NORTH LAS VEGAS NV




6:07 am
Left FedEx Ramp
LAS VEGAS NV


6:06 am
Arrived at FedEx Ramp
LAS VEGAS NV


4:27 am
Left FedEx Sort Facility
MEMPHIS TN


Jul 8, 2003 11:34 pm
Left FedEx Ramp
CLEVELAND OH


11:26 pm
Arrived at Sort Facility
MEMPHIS TN


8:16 pm
Left FedEx Origin Location
LORAIN OH



4:18 pm
Picked up by FedEx
LORAIN OH


8:48 am
Arrived at FedEx Ramp
CLEVELAND OH




Heres a link to my TERMS page
http://www.corallus.com/arborealsetc/terms.htm

As you read through this mess you will see where I am being ripped off

First...

Who initiated the trade, did you contact him or did he contact you? Your terms and conditions might have no bearing whatsoever on the situation depending on the direction of contact and which party instigated the transaction.

Secondly...

It is now July Tenth, have you given him ample oppurtunity to adress this issue? Clearly not, since the email contacts are from yesterday.

Third...

I've known Ken for a few years now and the man has never in that time mistreated a customer to the best of my knowledge, he is nothing short of an honest, quality businessman with perfect practices and the best track record of anyone I know. I personally have made numerous purchases from him without the slighest problem...

Fourth...

You used no insulation despite the fact the animals were going to Vegas? Are you NUTS?! he may not have collected the package upon first delivery attempt if the shop was closed, but you have to acknowledge culpability for not using styro and cool packs knowing full well the destination of the package.

Fifth...

I'm going to ask it again, since it's the most important factor... Did you give Exotic pets ample time to respond to this issue before running to the BOI with it? I know every post is made after a personally determined time but it seems like you posted some Twenty four to thirty six hours after the situation occured, if that isn't jumping the gun, I don't know what is. If you don't get satisfactory resolution at this point, your own conduct probably has a lot to do with it... you do not create a BOI thread calling someone bad and alleging criminal negligence after twenty four hours when your own conduct is at least partially at fault, it's just not done.

I kind of answered my own question in rereading the initial post...

There are two posted emails up there, the last one of which is from Bobby asking what path Ken intends to take, if Ken had responded, that email would logically be posted up there as well, since it's not, it's fairly safe to assume that a response hadn't been formulated yet as of the time of the posting...

Writing a BOI post calling someone a bad guy after such a short period of time and without giving them ANY chance to respond lets me know who the bad guy in the transaction is... and it's not Ken.

Personally, I think that 1)You should not have written this post at this time, it only makes you look impatient and very slightly ignorant to allow such a short time frame and 2)That there is a high degree of culpability that is on Bobby's shoulders due to what really is clearly improper packaging since he knew where the shipment was heading and could have easily checked the conditions at the destination when boxing it up, a few extra hours is not the same as a few extra days and a properly packaged animal would have had no problems with the slight delay. Of course, properly packaged animals would have been inside styro with cool packs.

One other amendment...

If he emailed you to let you know they arrived dead at 8:14 PM on July ninth and you posted at 1:59 AM (You're in Central Standard time, right?) on July tenth, you only allowed Fibe hours and forty five minutes for him to respond before you called him a bad guy...

Five hours and forty five minutes after asking what he planned on doing, without getting a response and he's a bad guy?

That's way... WAY too fast to be making that kind of judgement.

If I were in his position (and I'm not), at this point I would not offer any compensation or even attempt a compromise... you shipped improperly, blamed him for your mistake and then call him a bad guy without even attempting true communication on the subject. Bordering on libel here.

And because it might get lost in my numerous immediate responses...

Did you contact him about the trade or did he contact you?

If you contacted him, your terms and conditions are meaningless, as you are the supplicant, as would be a customer responding to an ad and HIS terms and conditions are those which are applicable.

If he contacted you about the trade, then you have already violated your own terms which state that you will not ship out trades unless they ship first... Since you shipped first, that tends to indicate (correct me if I'm wrong) that you contacted him (see above paragraph).

Sorry Bobby but I agree with most of what Seamus stated.

I personally would not ship to a destination where the high is 115 degrees, no way no how. It's just not worth the risk! There can be carrier delays or, as in this case, the business wasn't open at the time of delivery, and the animals end up being carted around town in a burning hot Fed Ex truck. I also feel that if for whatever reason you feel that you must ship in conditions such as that, an insulated styro box with cold packs would be advisable.

However, your terms page does state the following: "If an orders picked up late or you miss the carrier this will void the guarantee. Temperatures below 40f or above 90f in my area or the destination address will void live arrival guarantee." I dunno though seems like a poor decision to ship those animals, by you and your customer. That is so sad.

No styro and no cool pac in 115 temperatures
whos fault is it
its very likely that the snakes could have allready been dead at 8;48....but they weren't picked up then
the fault is both parties

I had one shipper who used a frozen sponge in a ziplock bag with styrofoam... worked quite well, and he was in Arizona in July.

Erin Benner

Properly packaged, external temperatures should not prevent an animal from being delivered safely to anyplace in the continental U.S.

Improperly packaged animals will die pretty easily during both the summer and the winter in most the continental U.S.

These animals were clearly inappropriately packaged, someone reccieving an animal should not have to instruct a shipper about packaging unless asked about the subject in advance, Bobby screwed up on the packaging by his own admission and endangered the lives of those animals. He refuses to accept responsibilty for this, instead focusing on a minor delay (minor delays are not lethal unless there is a problem prior to the event that impedes delivery).

Bobby also asked Ken what he planned on doing about the situation via email, then posted a bad guy thread after only five hours with no response... That's unacceptable in and of itself, the other party needs to be given a reasonable amount of time to reccieve communications, consider and adress the issue.

So... Bobby Pruett- Bad Guy, Bad Shipper, Bad judgement in posting, No Patience would be a more appropriate title for this thread.

This isn't exactly the first issue Bobby has had either, in doing a search using the button below his post to reveal others he has been involved in, there's a fairly long thread about his misrepresentation of a boa, shipping it out with an eye defect and seriously underweight. He claimed the eye defect didn't need to be mentioned because it was a common problem and that underweight and not feeding in several months (due to breeding but still...) didn't need to be mentioned prior to THAT trade...

So basically... Enter into a trade with Pruett only if you want dead or misrepresented animals and an enormous pain in the backside after the transaction is completed.

I have known Ken for around 5yrs. and have never known him to be BAD especially when it comes to customer service. I have dealt with him directly in the store, and since I no longer live in LV I have dealt with him online. Ken is one of the few VERY upstanding people in the herp comunity.

That said, why was it delivered at 8:48, did you pay extra for the early shipment, or is that normal time. Also did you happen to let Ken know that they would be arriving that early,hence he would actually be there early to get them. I also agree with seemus, being from the desert I ALLWAYS use styro and cold pacs in the summer, Better safe than sorry. I am sorry that 2 snakes had to pay for this mistake hopefully it will not be made again.

Something that would be hilariously funny if the circumstances were different...

I was poking around Bobby's website and found that he will return emails within twenty four hours (Contact section) but he only gave Ken five hours... Five hours in the middle of the night.

If it were a different situation, it would be funny... as it is, Bobby is just a lowlife impatient hypocrite trying to ruin someone's reputation to cover his own stupid mistake.

Pretty low Bobby... Pretty low.