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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 03-06-2012, 12:24 AM   #411
hhmoore
Quote:
Originally Posted by laterob View Post
you get a 40-pager
Crap - we're only on page 11. Guess there's still more fun to be had...I want to play, but I'm content to wait for news of a completed refund. I really hope people aren't going to beat this horse nonstop until then - I don't know if I'll be able to contain myself.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 12:49 AM   #412
WebSlave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerards View Post
So I should not want to read relative information on here. I thought this is for me to make decisions. I said the site works sometimes. I am happy they reached a conclusion. It's all the opinions from people that don't know either of them and tell people what they should do about a deal.
When you get a chance, look up the definition of "peer pressure", and see how that might apply here. The BOI was not made primarily for lurkers and people afraid of expressing their opinions. It was DESIGNED with viewers' ACTIVE participation in mind. Unless a substantial number of people DO chime in with their opinions of what has transpired, how else will the participants come to realize the thinness of the ice they are walking on without that kind of feedback? Without that feedback, how would anyone ever realize that perhaps their stance in a situation is not the best choice they could have made, ALL things considered?

And yes, I do have to defend this site when it becomes apparent that someone appears to not have a clue about what makes it work and seems to be taking pains to belittle that design by me and it's implementation by our members. Which, as I have mentioned before, is not appropriate within this forum, and is suitable fare only in the Feedback Forum. As such, I will consider anyone continuing along those lines in this thread as having formally asked to be banned from here. Quite frankly, I'm just tired of hearing people who have NEVER tried to do something like this themselves telling me HOW it should be done.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 01:37 AM   #413
Snake-Queen
Quote:
Originally Posted by laterob View Post
I don't know either of them. I am wondering why a 7-week or so delay from when Stu told Jerry he wasn't satisfied until he can expect his refund? How come nobody is asking about the slow repayment? Never spend the money until you know the customer is right, right?

From the (simpler) transaction standpoint, this thing is a train wreck. Throw in the two warring sides bringing their arguments here from who-knows-what forum and the zd stuff, and you get a 40-pager.

Jerry needs a TOS. Don't ever buy without asking about TOS's, viewers.
I have to agree, why would you not have the money? Jerry knew 2 weeks into Stu having the snakes that he wasn't happy with them. The logical thing to do, would have been to talk to Stu and find a resolution, quickly for the sake of the snakes and both parties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhmoore View Post
Crap - we're only on page 11. Guess there's still more fun to be had...I want to play, but I'm content to wait for news of a completed refund. I really hope people aren't going to beat this horse nonstop until then - I don't know if I'll be able to contain myself.
That is a very good possibility... 3-4 weeks is a long time to wait for the outcome.

Jerry, for those that are also concerned for the snakes, please update us with their progress. Not here, but in the general snake forum (Kingsnakes & Milksnakes Discussion Forum). It would be nice to know if the snakes fully recover, sad if they don't.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 02:36 AM   #414
Bobby O
Summary: Part III- Just to keep everyone focused

Summary:

1) Stu paid $3100 for a group of baby zonatas. Stu is NOT A NOVICE when it comes to colubrid husbandry/breeding (40 years experience with an excellent reputation).
2) Within two weeks, they start showing symptoms of "zonata disease." Stu wanted to return the animals and get his money back at that time and Jerry refused and wanted him to work with the snakes.
3) Animals progressively got worse/did not improve. Jerry offered Stu to return the snakes so he can work with them with no mention of a refund.
4) Stu refused, not trusting he will ever see a cent from Jerry or the snakes ever again.
5) Jerry started getting personally derogatory at Stu using expletives.
6) Stu refused to communicate with him because of his derogatory remarks and wanted an opinion on the other site about zonata disease.
7) Other sites moderator who is a friend of Jerry's selectively deletes any negative comments about the transaction.
8) Stu brings this issue to BOI.
9) Fast forward 42 pages of character history/witnesses and testimonials, endless rants/name calling, and opinions.
10) Jerry is supposedly refunding Stu's money but has not done so.

Please refund his money so we can all go back to our lives.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 02:46 AM   #415
Bobby O
What I've learnt from this BOI

Since I prolly spent way too much time on this BOI thread I'd like to reflect on what I learnt.

1) Unfortunately, the BOI is still needed for the commercial reptile industry. We can all thank Rich for bringing about the BOI. It has cleaned up the commercial reptile industry tremendously.

2) Seems to that people who have the same opinion are taking the same sides (not surprisingly). This is great for me personally, because now I know not only to avoid the seller in this particular case, but to avoid buying from those few people who side with him. Please keep it going!
 
Old 03-06-2012, 03:16 AM   #416
Jeff Schofield
Stu

Stu, to follow up on my first post in this thread and relate it to recent ones on husbandry: Things that cause problems like this in snakes arent something you can take a pic of and put on the internet,der. They are simply too small. And while we can yell back and forth about proof vs not having a test....had it occured to you to both(Jerry and Stu) to call a lab and have them come out and take random swabs of "clean" and "dirty" caging as well as possibly fecals and other tests to determine if there are conditions that exist in 1 place and not the other? Like I referenced a while ago(before I got sidetracked having to defend myself)it could be that you cages while visibly clean could harbor microbes that could be picked up with a swab, grown in a lab, and help in the definition and possible "cure" of said disease. Having someone pipe in that you are only 20 minutes away from Ft Worth, I'm betting they have such a lab. Call a food processor and find one that has HACCP control and ask what lab they use. It could eliminate possibilities and cut both of your quarantining time. Sadly now BOTH of you have this problem in your collections, how you deal with the problem(not this thread)will go a long way in determining professionalism.
 
Old 03-06-2012, 09:00 AM   #417
StuTennyson
Just an after thought. Not sure why I didn't think of this sooner. Here is a pic of a 5th neonate from the same clutch, received the same time and kept in exactly the same conditions that so far has not exhibited the condition.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN6508.JPG (80.7 KB, 262 views)
 
Old 03-06-2012, 09:05 AM   #418
StuTennyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Schofield View Post
Stu, to follow up on my first post in this thread and relate it to recent ones on husbandry: Things that cause problems like this in snakes arent something you can take a pic of and put on the internet,der. They are simply too small. And while we can yell back and forth about proof vs not having a test....had it occured to you to both(Jerry and Stu) to call a lab and have them come out and take random swabs of "clean" and "dirty" caging as well as possibly fecals and other tests to determine if there are conditions that exist in 1 place and not the other? Like I referenced a while ago(before I got sidetracked having to defend myself)it could be that you cages while visibly clean could harbor microbes that could be picked up with a swab, grown in a lab, and help in the definition and possible "cure" of said disease. Having someone pipe in that you are only 20 minutes away from Ft Worth, I'm betting they have such a lab. Call a food processor and find one that has HACCP control and ask what lab they use. It could eliminate possibilities and cut both of your quarantining time. Sadly now BOTH of you have this problem in your collections, how you deal with the problem(not this thread)will go a long way in determining professionalism.
Jeff-Your suggestions sound very interesting and would make for a great scientific research study however that is not the point. I really have no desire to spend time and money researching this as it is only affecting 4 snakes in my collection. I would rather just get rid of the 4 snakes. The point to me is that I have snakes I am not happy with and just want a refund. That is all. Stu
 
Old 03-06-2012, 09:16 AM   #419
StuTennyson
Quote:
Originally Posted by KelliH View Post
Good for Jerry for agreeing to a full refund. And good for Stu too! A lot can happen in two weeks to a delicate reptile. By the way, since when is Azle considered "rural Texas"? It's only 20 minutes from Fort Worth!
Hi Kelli-I actually live closer to Boyd. It's just an Azle post office that handles the mail. You are welcome to come visit me any time and see for yourself where I live. Stu
 
Old 03-06-2012, 12:06 PM   #420
Jeff Schofield
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuTennyson View Post
Jeff-Your suggestions sound very interesting and would make for a great scientific research study however that is not the point. I really have no desire to spend time and money researching this as it is only affecting 4 snakes in my collection. I would rather just get rid of the 4 snakes. The point to me is that I have snakes I am not happy with and just want a refund. That is all. Stu
Stu, while I hear you on cost, at what point is the cause and the cure cost-effective for this Zonata community? You have a fresh case study, call and get a quote from a lab and pass the hat throughout the community. WIth the results maybe a enterprising grad student interested in Zonata can apply for a grant to study the problem and gradually make the way toward a definition. Without SOMEONE doing this, this problem will happen again and again. You, Jerry, and a whole bunch of people are INVESTED in this. YOU are the ones with the most to gain($$)by a cure being found. It generally costs nothing to ask, and if the samples cost $500....divide that by the piece of mind for every Zonata sale. Or dont and know that someone else might and this community can look back and decide how to treat this....because thats what they do.
 

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