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Board of Inquiry® This forum is provided exclusively for the discussion of specific persons or businesses in the herp industry. YOUR FULL NAME is required for each message you post.

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Old 11-08-2004, 04:57 PM   #21
I will call my attorney on Monday and move for legal action! It's people like this that keep people away from doing business with small breeders.
I'm giving him until Wednesday before I begin alerting the authorities on this matter.
My thoughts, EASE UP!!!!!!!!!!

It hasn't even been a week yet, things do come up and delay people. I have waited months for things to be shipped and have no problem with this. Its unacceptable that he hasn't called yet, but there may very well be a reason for this.

I strongly feel that you jumped the gun here and the legal threats are really uncalled for. Also the the above quote "It's people like this that keep people away from doing business with small breeders" is ridiculous.
Old 11-08-2004, 05:10 PM   #22
We all have opinions and it's a fun world we live in for it. In as much, I made a decision to bring my case forward. One week, two weeks, three weeks, whatever. I expected a package on Thursday and he didn't deliver nor did he contact me.

I'm not here to have shouting matches with anyone because in the grand scheme of it all, it really does not matter one bit.

Like I mentioned before, it's people like this who make it bad for the small breeder to grow in this business. Other people read threads like this and think twice before ordering from the small breeders because of these type of horror stories. We have to "raise the bar" with respect to handling proper business in the reptile industry. People are here defending this person when they should be outraged and demand that sellers get their acts together when handling business.

In retrospect, if you worked two weeks and expected to be paid on Friday. Wouldn't you be pissed off if you didn't get paid by your employer and even worse, when you tried to speak to your boss via phone/email/etc he was no where to be found? It's your money and you've earned it. Why should you have to wait a prolonged period of time before ranting and raving? I'm confident that you wouldn't follow your own advice and wait by passively while twiddling your fingers.

I don't have anything else to add to this thread and ask that the "flaming" come to a halt. I've spoke my case and I stand by it. We as a community of reptile breeders/brokers/buyers must demand and expect superior customer service. Isn't that what the BOI is about?

The court is in recess.
Old 11-08-2004, 05:26 PM   #23
thats nice in thought philly, but where does it even say he runs his own reptile business though (no link to a website, nor mention of a business name) ......... from what the other person says he works 2 jobs, so i would assume he is just a mere hobbyist. if the mating 2 animals and selling the young makes you a business man, then there are alot of teenage business people out there.....

i would assume he is pretty busy in his life, if not he would have came here to defend his name already.

also, you posted this on a public forum, where anyone and everyone is entitled to post's their opinion to it. i dont think anyone of us would let your message stand as an example of who this person is. when you admitted you have not given this guy any chance at all. you the one who played judge, jury and executioner on him.
Old 11-08-2004, 05:35 PM   #24
Phil Bradley
Plenty of Opinions

While there are some who think you are overreacting I feel that you are in the right on this issue. If you cannot stay in contact with your customer than DON'T DO THE BUSINESS. Maybe you will be lucky and he will just return your money. You can then go out and spend it with a more professional seller.

Phil Bradley
Old 11-08-2004, 05:54 PM   #25
Mister Internet
Ok, I've rarely felt compelled to contribute in the BOI, but I just thought I'd throw this out there... there is a big difference between "Being in business" and "good business practices". No, getting a female snake knocked up and desiring to sell the progeny does not make one a businessman... however, TAKING SOMEONE'S MONEY IN EXCHANGE FOR ONE DOES. As soon as you accept money for an item or service, you are in business... don't like it? Give them away for free. As soon as you take possession of someone else's hard-earned money, you enter into a contract... if that contract means little to you (as I would suspect it means little to some, based on the comments here in "support" of the deadbeat dealer), then it is best to simply not enter into such contracts.

It is ridiculous to think that a society could function if all commercial transactions were completed at the seller's leisure... I'm sorry, we can't get you that car until next April, but we'll sure take your $15,000 now... Thanks for the $150 advance, we'll call you when we have a table available at our restaurant, I'm sorry your father died because he didn't have his heart meds, but we just didn't feel like sending them out. See how ridiculous that sounds?

Almost as ridiculous as "he's a hobbyist, not a businessman". Well, if you don't want to be a businessman, DON'T SELL YOUR ANIMALS. The buyer sent the seller money, the seller agreed to send a snake in exchange. If that's not business, someone please explain to me what business IS.
Old 11-08-2004, 05:57 PM   #26
Mister Internet
That being said, stuff DOES happen... I did not mean that to be directed at the seller in this case so much as towards the people that are defending the notion that not being a official business with a Federal Tax ID and separate checking account means that you're somehow exempt from basic courtesy.
Old 11-08-2004, 06:43 PM   #27
i said that meaning he has other things to do in his seeminlgy busy life, that might be keeping him from responding to emails or anything else. like i said before, if he would look at his own ad that philly posted a link to this thread and called him a scam artist on it he probably would repsond. i would think there would be a good reason he hasnt responded as of yet.

also, not trying to start a argument with you mister internet, but "As soon as you accept money for an item or service, you are in business... " would in a way make drugdealers, pimps, theives and hitmen business people too woulndt it? they all are in a way trading goods and or services for money as well. just a thought......
Old 11-08-2004, 07:41 PM   #28
Suncoast Herpetological
You guys have got to be kidding!

Mike, just a thought? ... maybe...but not a particularly good analogy.

Tom, you said it perfectly. If you are going to conduct a business transaction, whether it is a single event or an ongoing business, you owe your customer the common courtesy of basic contact and at least a minimally businesslike attitude towards the transaction.

I have been producing snakes for a good long while and selling them as well. I also work a full time day job. In my opinion, unless the reason is pretty much catastrophic, there is absolutely no reason for missing a shipping date as described and then ignoring contact for several days. If I were to have experienced the same situation, I would have begun requesting a refund the day the animals did not arrive and the seller had not bothered to contact me.

I am truly astonished at the number of people who stated that they would have waited a week or two before taking action. Hobbyist, jobber or pet shop owner...it doesn't make a bit of difference. If the seller can't complete a transaction with a modicum of professionalism he has no business posting ads.

Ron, you haven't jumped the gun a bit.
Old 11-08-2004, 08:01 PM   #29
Suncoast Herpetological
I will, however, grudgingly agree that the title of the thread could have been toned down some. At this point, the guy is simply a lousy businessman...not necessarily a scammer. There is always time for a follow up post if the situation is not resolved.
Old 11-08-2004, 11:07 PM   #30

Anyone taking my hard earned cash better send when they say. Bottom line. The guy obviously had the time to take his money. It would take 30 seconds to pick up the phone and tell your customer what a slacker you are.

I hate hearing excuses...I have another job or I have 2 jobs. BS. Alot of dealers have second jobs but I never see any bad guy posts in here on them.

How long are you supposed to wait till you hear or never hear from someone? Are you suposed to wait till someone else gets ripped off?

Some of you posters better think of what you are posting in defense for this guy. If it bares any resemblance to defending a scam artist, I would definitely think twice. You just might ruin your own reputation.

Ron....I hope you settle up.


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