Fla Fish And Wildlife

any information about the 3 arrests at the Daytona show. I know one involved NERD, but the full story would be appreciated . They are a real problem. I had spoken to some of the turtle people their who were harrased into providing areas in their turtle containers for the turtles to come out onto . So everyone had to provide a rock into their container, regardless of the fact that the turtles were totally aquatic!

I could be wrong, but apparently if you have a booth and you have someone elses animals at your table, and the F/W find out,that those animals in question are not yours, you could be arrested. Any info would be appreciated.

Did someone from NERD get arrested or did they have someone arrested?

Jerry, I also was told the same thing about selling animal's that belonged to other's. My partner is on his way home from there, I was told that there were more than 3 arrests but I will try and find out more info from him.

impression that someone from NERD was arrested and jailed until bail money was provided. This is based on heresay, so I am attempting to get some correct information.

Originally Posted by KNOBTAIL

impression that someone from NERD was arrested and jailed until bail money was provided. This is based on heresay, so I am attempting to get some correct information.

Ain't dat some S.

The state went around checking on who actually owned animals at the tables. If there were animals at a table that didn't belong to the actual vendor ie.....on consignment, the person who they belonged to needed a Florida license to exhibit and sell reptiles. They were a few CB spilotes rat snakes that were on Kevins permit but it didn't matter if they were someone elses other then Kevins. Two others at different tables were arrested for leopard geckos also. What a trip.....

These people had to post $500.00 bail which NERD posted for him....all of the cash he had was taken away and NERD gave him money to get by for the weekend and to get home, and now he has to go back to florida for a court appearance sometime in the future.

I blew this report off as being insane but here goes:

An employee at the regional reptile wholesaler came back and told me that Florida Fish and Wildlife were walking around with reams of handcuffs arresting people right and left for not having the around $25 permit to sell in FL. So he went and hid in the venomous room! Ha Ha! He said that if you did not give the officers a hard time, they would give you a $500 ticket.

However, if you protested, they would handcuff you and take you to prison. At least one guy said "this is bull****!" and went to jail in cuffs.

But, he said that the officers were actually pretty nice about the whole thing, and if you were to be charged, they would first let the vendors go to the bathroom first to get rid of your drugs! Ha Ha Ha Ha!

I swear, this is what he told me. Ha Ha!

to the fact that you do NOT have to provide any answers to any questions unless you have council. That would be the best course of action to take when being addressed by F/W if you are NOT the holder of the permit. Just refer everything to the permit holder. Had it been me, I would not have entertained any type of communications with the officer other than " you will have to speak to my boss" You are under NO obligation in answering any questions, and certainly incriminating oneself for arrest.

You can handle it politely, and just inform the officer that you are just working here. If they want to know about animals on the table, your answer should be, "you will have to come back or speak to the owner of the table."

I also believe that Wayne Hill should have an attorney on staff to help if a permit problem arises. You are in a no win situation if you are out of state and a summons is issued for a return date in Fla. Hopefully their will be more to this nightmare and we will be better prepared for their next onslaught of creative manslaughter of the herp industry.

Hi, I'm Donnie Smith, better known to most as Morti.

It's like this:

For the past 2 years, my wife and I have worked at NERD's table at the Daytona show. This year I had 7 snakes available to sell: 5 Tiger Rat snakes (Spilotes pullatus pullatus) and 2 Irian Jaya Carpet Pythons (Morelia spilota variegata). I made arrangements with Kevin and Kara to get these animals put on NERD's permit so that they could be displayed and sold at NERD's table. The way I understood it, this should have been all that was required as they were then considered by Kevin and I to be on consignment to NERD. To me the fact that I was going to be working at NERD's table was irrelevant.

Sunday at approximately 11:00 AM, an officer from fish and wildlife came to the table asking to see the permit. For whatever reason he addressed this request to me. I directed him to Kevin saying that he was the owner, he had the permit. He stated he also needed to see "breeding records or receipts" for every animal at the table. While he and Kara were discussing the fact that this information had never been requested before and that they did not have any such records, I pulled out the breeding records for the snakes that I provided for NERD to sell, as it is my standard practice to provide basic info such as birthdates, feeding, and shedding records to anyone who purchases my animals.

This, it would turn out, was the wrong thing to do.

The officer examined these records and was again like "This is great for these animals but what about the rest of them?" and again I pointed out that he should ask Kevin or Kara as I didn't breed those animals.

After a while he wandered off. At around 12:15 PM, he returned and pulled me aside. He informed me that in order to lawfully sell or exhibit animals, I should have my own permit with my own name on it. He allowed me to remove the animals in question from the table and he proceeded to write me a citation. He informed me that I would be transported to jail where I would have to pay a $500 bail/bond to be released. Kevin generously supplied me with the cash. The officer informed me that residents of Florida were simply written a citation while non-residents would be transported to jail. I will have to return for court in October.

There was quite a long wait while his commanding officer returned with two other people who were cited for the same violation. After a wait of about an hour and a half total, I was taken outside, frisked, handcuffed, and transported to Volusia County Jail where I was processed as a criminal, finger-printed, had my mug shot taken, and had all my personal possessions confiscated. I was then put in a "Holding cell" with two other offenders, one passed out and snoring, the other very intoxicated. The other two gentlemen arrested at the expo at the same time as me were put in the "drunk tank" with me.

After what seemed like a stupid amount of time, we were finally released. The gentleman who owned the table from which the two other permit offenders were arrested graciously offered me a ride back to the expo from jail. I had other arrangements, but this worked out better as I didn't want anyone to have to leave the show early on my account.

Incidentally, the biggest silver lining that I have seen in this situation is just how wonderfull everyone that I have spoken with in the herp community has been. Not just with Kevin and Kara, whom I already consider close friends, but with people who I didn't even really know. I received more kind words and encouragement from perfect strangers than I thought was possible.

I am very sorry that I had to put my friends and family though this situation, as I would have gladly bought my own permit if I had known that it was required. If the officer had simply told me to remove these animals from the table, I would have also done so willingly. I really wish that I would have known all of this before.

That is why I am posting this now: I don't want anyone to have the same problem that I did. If you want to share a table with someone else at a Florida show, make absolutely sure that each person has their own permit. That is the interpretation of the law that Florida F&W is going by... this year.

breeding records come up?

Am I to assume that everyone who had any living animal at that show would have to have that information on hand? Apparently these agents appear to be reading into a law that NO ONE has ever experienced before in the state of Fla. as a vendor in a show. The applications for a permit from out of state vendors, does not require breeding records in order to participate a show on a temporary basis. The problem that you have is that these law enforcement agents persue a course of action that should be decided by a judge, not by them . If the show were " imported herps included" then this would be a mute subject since the animals were legally imported. No paperwork is required other than the permit for selling, so why is it necessary to provide paperwork that relates to breeding. Absolutely ridiculous.