Jamie Kaps - Guarantees, Signature Releases, & The War on Terror.

I'll start by saying this is NOT a bad guy post. More of a informative post describing a recent situation with a customer who I would have rather seen follow our instructions and took it upon himself to try and bring this matter public without telling the entire situation in a truthful manner.

Here is a BOI tale for discussion regarding Live Arrival Guarantees, Signature Releases, and The War on Terror.

The situation is this..... Prior to delivery a customer was instructed to confirm shipping details and answer four to five brief questions. The same we require ALL customers to do before accepting delivery. We do this not only to confirm shipping address to make sure our animals are shipped to the correct location, but we do this also to give our customers a chance at doing everything in their power to be there in person for delivery and to make sure they can qualify for our live arrival guarantee. Most sellers assume customers have read terms and leave them out to dry, we take extra steps to make sure they have every chance to cover themselves....

This customer unfortunately ignored our statements and suggestions. You may read the email that was sent in reply to their "claim" below for details.

You (your fiancé) were specifically informed to REMOVE any and all signature releases from your residential delivery carrier prior to shipment in an email message prior to shipment. Note the excerpt below:



“4. We are shipping using FedEx. Do you have a “signature release” on file with this carrier?

(This allows carriers to leave parcels unsigned at your doorstep, if you are not sure we suggest calling fedex to remove a waiver if it exists. Many customers have this and are unaware, it is always best to check prior to accepting live deliveries. A signature waiver will result in forfeiture of live arrival guarantee since we are unable to receive proof of signature or personal acceptance of package(s). There are no exceptions to this policy whatsoever.)”


You failed to do this.

(the customer answered simply 'no' to this answer in their reply and did not bother checking.)

We also asked specifically if someone would be accepting this parcel in person.



“3. Will someone be on hand to personally sign and accept this package?”



Again, you failed to do this.

(the customer answered simply 'yes' to this question yet fedex states specifically in tracking that the parcel was left on the doorstep. we have no way of proving signature or personal acceptance, therefore we are unable to guarantee live arrival. we gave the customer every opportunity to be aware of these issues and forced them to read and respond no less, still..... these statements were ignored)



You can check your tracking details using the link we provided prior to shipment here:

http://www.fedex.com/Tracking?trackn...guage=english&



Nov 11, 2005
2:12 PM

Delivered

DEPEW, NY


Left at front door. Package delivered to recipient address - release authorized




Tracking number: 790708271500

Ship (P/U) date: Nov 10, 2005

Delivery date: Nov 11, 2005 14:12 PM

Sign for by: Signature Release on file



A signature release was on file for your residence, and no one bothered to remove this release. To make matters even worse, the package was left on your front doorstep. Our terms specifically state that someone must be on hand to accept these parcels and sign or else live arrival cannot be guaranteed. They also state that signature releases effectively void the live arrival guarantee as well.



We understand not all customers read our terms as they should before order, this is why we take the specific measure in emailing each and every customer PRIOR to shipment and REQUIRING them to answer questions confirming shipping information and that they agree to these details. It is a legally binding contract, in ADDITION to our terms.



Unfortunately we cannot refund or guarantee packages when our customers do everything in their power to IGNORE what we have stipulated as obvious terms of a transaction. There is no possible way we can issue a refund for this order. You simply failed to do what was stated to ensure safe live arrival. We will have our owner review this matter on Tuesday when he returns to see what can be done, if anything.

This customer was told that "Our owner Chris would review his situation upon his return Tuesday. Chris had the day off Friday for his birthday" in addition to this reply and it was left at that.

This customer has continued to email us and deny his obvious shortcomings. A partial refund or credit probably would have been issued. That was until the "guilt trips" started to arrive....... And the lawyer threats. Thats okay, we can also play that game. We have retainers for a reason!

Note the quotes are from a message received from said customer. Our statements follow below. Color coding is probably stripped from the message.

“ i read the email you sent to my fiance about the green tree pythons. first of all , they were not left on the door step, there were 4 people home at the time of delivery (abbey, her sister, her mom and her brother) to include i was on the phone with her when the delivery person arrived. “


Unfortunately we have no way to prove this because you failed to check with your carrier as we specified! You were SPECIFICALLY told to check for this in the email you yourself had to read and confirm before delivery was made. This is exactly why we send these messages; perhaps you thought we were making it up.



“ive contacted my lawyer and also informed military lawyers of this situation. i would like my money refunded.”



This is fine, we will be expecting to hear from them. We will be happy to put them in contact with our attorneys; we expect they will tell you the same we have stated. You were well aware of our stated terms, and you were also forced to acknowledge our terms a second time when replying to the pre-delivery message. You were given ample opportunity to allow us to extend our standard live arrival guarantee to you. You failed to do what was required; we simply cannot prove what you have stated. Tracking states the parcel was left on a doorstep, that alone voids your guarantee. Your account with Federal Express also states you have a signature waiver on your address, our attorneys have already confirmed this Friday with the carrier. You were told specifically that signature releases void live arrival guarantees; you were asked if you had one on your address from FedEx, and you were told that if you were uncertain to CHECK because many people are unaware of such waivers. You stated ‘no’. Our attorneys have also been provided with this message of yours which acts as a legally binding document andor contract.



“i also would like to remind your trying to rip off someone that has been fighting this war on terrorism for the last 4 years and currently in iraq agian. someone that risks his life for your freedom to live in this beautiful country, MY country and right to do what you do. so remember on the next veterans day the $553.50 that your trying to rip off. “



Your contribution to our way of life is no excuse for ignorance.

No one is trying to rip anyone off, if this is the case… You ripped yourself off!

Our terms of sale are very specific, you yourself also had to sign and remit the information provided in the pre-delivery email before we would even ship your order. This is policy. We do this to give our customers a chance to make sure they will qualify for our guarantees because we understand that some people may simply not read our terms of service. In this case, it is apparent that you did not, and it is also apparent that you read our email and obviously figured that it was not worth taking a few moments to have your faince call fedex to be certain there was not a signature waiver on your household. You unfortunately have no one to blame but yourself; we do applaud your attempt at a “guilt trip” however. Bravo! It is the apparent “last-ditch” effort by a person who has obviously been shown to be in the wrong. Again, there is no excuse for ignorance; we give each and every customer our live arrival guarantee and every single chance to make sure they qualify for it. You failed to do this and you are simply unable to blame us. Had you had your fiancé pick up the phone and check for the waiver we would be able to VISUALLY confirm a signature when we checked tracking. You made this impossible for us, had you followed what you were told this would not be an issue and replacements or a creditrefund would have been issued.

Our attorneys have been forwarded your correspondence; we will look forward to hearing from them. Your very own reply to our pre-delivery email is below again for your review. Please note the areas that contain your answers and your complete and utter failure to do what was specifically forewarned. Especially note the location of “No Exceptions” when explaining the signature waiver policy. Again, Ignorance is no excuse. Your replies are in red, the terms in which you obviously “skimmed” and should have read are in green. May I remind you that this confirmation is in fact legally binding, forward it to your attorneys. I would hate to see you loose any additional funds keeping this from your attorneys and persuing a course of action that will result is definite loss. We have been down this road before with people who refused to do what was necessary, and we’ll be more than happy to do it again.

All further correspondence will be issued and processed by our attorneys as we have been instructed. Good Day.


-----Original Message-----
Subject: PLEASE CONFIRM

Automated Order Confirmation, you MUST reply to this message!



We are processing shipments for shipment Thursday, Friday morning arrival. Please answer the questions below and confirm your actual shipping address. On many occasions customers forget to include this information in correspondence with us, or the address designated in PayPal is not correct.



Replies bust be received no later by 1PM Eastern Standard Time. Replies received later than this will ship the following week. If for some reason you are unable to receive a delivery Friday morning, please note this below. If replying later than the time specified, remember to include available acceptance dates.



1. Brief outline of your order, date of final payment.

green tree pythons (biak, aru) $553.50 on november 7





2. Shipping Address



ABBEY Z.
xx xxxxxx xx
DEPEW, N.Y. 14043

(nameaddress censored, this is the customers fiancegirlfriend who accepted delivery)



3. Will someone be on hand to personally sign and accept this package?yes



4. We are shipping using FedEx. Do you have a "signature release" on file with this carrier? no

(This allows carriers to leave parcels unsigned at your doorstep, if you are not sure we suggest calling fedex to remove a waiver if it exists. Many customers have this and are unaware, it is always best to check prior to accepting live deliveries. A signature waiver will result in forfeiture of live arrival guarantee since we are unable to receive proof of signature or personal acceptance of package(s). There are no exceptions to this policy whatsoever.)



5. What is the expected overnight low temperature (F) for your location on the evening of delivery. (If delivery is taking place more than three days from receipt of this message you may skip this question.)about 30-40 degrees



Thank you, a response IS required to this message.

again, as you can see above all steps prior to delivery were taken to inform this customer of obvious terms of sale, most would not have done so. in fact most sellers simply ship without confirming even shipping addresses when paypal payments are received. we do not ship until we confirm and make customers aware of possible issues that may hurt them in the rare instance of a DOA. Unfrotunately this is one of those few and far between cases of a troubled shipment and a customers ignorance to terms, even when he was forced to read and reply before getting his order.

I also did not appreciate the guilt trips this "service member" tried pulling while he continued to avoid the fact he blatantley avoided doing what was expected of him to make this a successful transaction, or atleast to qualify for a guarantee he is now trying to make a claim against. I am all for supporting our service men and women, we have made countless donations this year alone. Hell, my own birthday is on Vetrans Day!

Service to our country is not a free pass to ignore rules and guidelines. If a person serves our country does that make any other business make warranty or guarantee exceptions? No. Perhaps discounts, lower rates, extended periods of coverage, etc. It does not excuse ignorance and no matter how much I'd like to help an individual out, I cannot excuse this type of behavior. I was actually prompted to issue a credit but after Pat and Glenn forwarded the additional mails he sent us after he was told that I would deal with this Tuesday, I had seen enough...........

We would have been willing to help this customer in some way, but now it is safe to say we are simply forwarding further correspondence, if any, to our attorney. I am left feeling no guilt whatsoever for leaving this situation just as it stands. This customer should have simply owned up to the fact that he failed to do his part and this situation would have been handled. Credit, replacement of sorts, something..... I've come to the conclusion now that I want nothing more to do with this individual and further correspondence on this matter will be directed to our attorney.

The customer will also be liable for any and all wages encoured as per our terms, and we will also be seeking deflamitory, libel, andor slander angles as well. Taking this matter publicly without the facts and quoted emails we have received from other parties support this action, we have been told we cannot disclose these however.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

Orders are legally binding contracts. When placing an order you confirm that you have read, fully understand, and agree to these terms of sale. You also agree to pay all expenses including legal fees, court costs, and attorney wages paid by the seller when attempting to collect on a breech of these terms. We will not be held responsible for customers who wish to ignore our terms of sale. All sales are final.

Had this customer simply come to terms with the fact that he could have actually done his part to make this delivery more of a possible success and abide by our terms, his fiance would probably be looking at two replacement chondros right now. Live and learn Sgt.


Also, please excuse me if my replies to this thread are brief, I wanted to be informative so hopefully more folks accepting live parcels will look into these sorts of things to help sellers guarantee and confirm their deliveries, not to make the same mistakes as this guy did..... But our attorney has stated that I should not speak further on this matter. I've stated what I set out to state, please feel free to discuss amongst yourselves

This individual posted this situation on another public forum which prompted me to address this matter appropriately, of course he left pertinent information out from his claims...... He has since ceased his ignorant replies but I still wanted to make sure people were aware of this situation.

All of you out there who have had signature releases on file or who have customers with such releases please be sure to remove them.... These releases are becoming very common and they do nothing to help breeders prove delivery details and offer guarantees. Be careful, its always best to check if uncertain!

Have a great weekend!

Chris I think you did the right thing by standing your ground esp with the emails over and over while you were out.

I gave a refund once on a DOA without a signature, I was new and gave the benefit of a doubt since they emailed me about 2 hours after it was "left at door" in 40 degree temps.

Then I found my jacksons for sale 3 or 4 days later in an ad that they buyer had been double shipped and didn't need them.

Sad that some have to suffer from the rules but they are there for a reasona nd my gosh you told them YOU HAVE TO SIGN and IF you have a WAIVER have it REMOVED!

I don't think you can be any more clear than that!

thank you

I know that we made every effort to avoid situations like this, it is the reason we started issuing these types of mails in addition to listing terms. It leaves customers unable to use the tried and true excuse... "but I didnt see your terms..." or "i did not know"

Ignorance is no longer an excuse using this method, and we've avoided many misdirected shipments and had numerous people notice waivers that they had not even requested. Way many more pro's than cons, I knew someone was eventually bound to play dumb though

Such is life.

If anything he should be better at details and understanding directions. I definitely hope I'm not in a position to rely on him during my next overseas trip.

amen.............. !

I very much doubt the legitimacy of his "Service" but thats another story all together, and not important. He certainly had plenty of time to email us this weekend for someone who is supposed to be overseas serving our country on the syrian border. Oh well, not important..... I figured I would just leave that one alone and stick to simple facts giving him the benifit of doubt.

Originally Posted by Wendy

Chris I think you did the right thing by standing your ground esp with the emails over and over while you were out.

I agree with Wendy. You did the right thing, in my opinion, and handled it well. If someone is hoping/expecting that you'll break your rules for them, they're much less likely to succeed with this type of attitude.

I don't understand what the military service had to do with it. WHY someone would even mention it, much less expect it to buy them some special privileges in this situation is beyond me.

Chris, I think it sucks that you had to deal with this. But, I'm glad you posted it. I have heard about the "signature release" issue, but until now have forgotten to include it in my own T.O.S. So thanks for bringing it up.

As far as the potential for a defamation and libel case against you, I believe the courts would likely rule that you would be considered a voluntary public figure (given the nature of the industry and where it was posted), and therefore the burden of proof would be on you to prove that what was said/posted/published was indeed untrue. Each state may have slightly different laws for these cases, however. Good luck with it all either way.

I'm not too worried about it, I'm sure our attornies have all they need to proceed if we wish too. I was told not to share specific articles of information such as forwarded mails and correspondence from other people this person corresponded with. I'm sure this is what prompted their interest in that position. Regardless, I'm done with the situation personally.

Thanks

heh... should have said:

As far as the potential for a defamation and libel case against THEM

np, i figured as much

How long after the shipment arrived did he contact you? What was the reason the GTP's arrived dead. Did this guys lack of compliance contribute to the Gtp's death's? Des this guy know about this thread?
I ship a fair amount, and never had any issues like this come up in 10 years.In fact the only DOA I ever had in over 1000 shipments is when hurricane Wilma caused a package to sit in a warehouse for over a week in 100 degree heat.So to me such TOS clauses seems like a easy way out, not accusing you of using it as a way out just I have never had a reason to use such, nor have I ever needed a lawyer on retainer to handle my customers???. Maybe if your shipping or TOS causes such issues , you might want to improve your methods. I have found it common for drivers to enter "left at front door" when the package was signed for, so that could be a mistake on there part.Do you have written proof from Fedex that they actually had a waiver, or you just assuming that Fedex is perfect and didn't make a mistake?In my experience Fedex only does this at the customers request, so if the never made the request then it is Fedex's mistake, usually you need to sign something to waive this.Can they provide the signature or proof he waived this?
What I am getting at is you admit the shipment came in dead, and that is most likely your mistake for not packaging it correctly(unless his mistake in following instructions caused them to die).Animals just don't die unless something dramatic happens.And if you use properly insulated boxes with 48hr or 72hr heat packs even long delays or being left outside shouldn't be a problem. The customers seems to of made a mistake by not following your instructions...did his mistake contribute to there deaths. I doubt a customer would kill two GTP's for a refund, easier to just say I am not happy with them.
IMO if he can prove the shipment arrived dead , didn't sit outside for several hours. You should cover it TOS or not...I know it sucks that people don't listen, but if you didn't pack them correctly to begin with then you should cover it. If it sat outside for several hours in the cold then no you should not cover it. Proper packaging generally eliminates the need for these types of TOS. With proper packaging a GTP could sit outside in cold weather for a couple days with no problems. As long as you use the right heat packs ,insulation etc..
Personally it would suck if I got a package in , received it personally, and they were DOA, I contact you just to hear, "you didn't take care of the signature waiver so no refund" this policy seems to assume that since a customer didn't listen he is ultimately at fault or is lying no matter the circumstance. I could understand if it was 6pm and they arrived at noon. But to have a policy that seems to automatically doubt the word of your customers seems a bit off to me.
To me the best way to handle this situation would be:
1). Look at the time of delivery and compare it with the time he contacted you.
2). Proof of DOA like pictures

To me a common sense approach would do well here and fair to both parties..

If he contacted you shortly after arrival I think it would be safe to assume they didn't sit outside all day. Relying 100% on Fedex to make this determination seems unfair to me.
If pics can be provided then safe to say he's not lying about the DOA.
If you can reasonably reach a conclusion that the animals were not killed by "foul play" (like someone is going to walk up to a house grab there box and drop kicking it a few times), or sat outside in unfavorable weather all day then you should issue a refund. Keeping his cash on the basis of a technicality when the facts can prove they came in DOA (which is your fault)seems morally wrong to me.
Personally if this was my customer I would be embarrassed that the animals were packed so poorly to not be able to survive an overnite trip, I would of replaced them or issued a refund, no excuses or technicalities.
This is my opinion based on the information provided by you, if the items sat outside for an extended amount of time in bad weather than I can understand your position.But if Fedex claims it was delivered at noon and he called you in the next couple hours than no I don't understand why you feel it necessary to keep his cash....Especially if ultimately the packaging is what caused the problem , not the waiver of signature.