Scales N Stuff

I have been debating whether to post this or not, but I've been asked to by a few other people. So here goes. This will be kinda long, so bear with me.

I ordered a baby blue tongue skink from Scales N Stuff about 2 weeks ago, and it arrived this past Wednesday morning on Feb 15th. I was sent pictures of a healthy animal, but what I received is a sick, extremely skinny animal that I will most likely have a lot of vet bills for in the next coming few weeks. My fiance, who really doesn't know much about reptiles, even recognized this animal was in bad shape when it arrived.

I have been offered a full refund, yet that really doesn't make up for what has happened to this poor animal in my mind. And it makes me ask the question, if someone really cares about their reputation and the animals, how could he knowingly ship an animal in this condition?

I had had 3 offers for baby blue tongue skinks, but had decided to go with Scales N Stuff based on how quickly my emails were answered and I had felt they really knew what they were talking about. It all seemed like a good choice. Until Tuesday Feb 14th. The animal was supposed to arrive that day, and all day Monday I couldn't get a hold of anyone. I was trying to get a tracking number. I finally got someone on the phone Tuesday about 1pm. This is when I was told that they didn't ship the skink out because they thought he may have had mites. This is when I should've stated then and there to forget about shipping the animal. I have 7 other herps in my house and since the skink has arrived, I've had to put it far away from all my other animals until I can get it to the vet this Thursday.

I was given a tracking number for Fedex. My friend was sitting in my livingroom listening to the conversation, and she also heard him say Fedex. Now why is that my mailman, Larry, showed up with the skink Wednesday morning? Isn't it illegal to ship via USPS? I don't even get feeders shipped USPS. I was beginning to wonder on Tuesday why the tracking number wouldn't work, I had even called and emailed him to see if maybe I had written it down wrong, but of course, no reply.

So, I open the box with my fiance present. I thought the skink was dead. It was so skinny and disgusting looking, wasn't breathing, wasn't moving. The box was still very warm though. For 45 minutes I waited until it finally started to move around. Its back legs are so skinny it still can barely walk without collapsing to one side. Its hip bones and spine are visibly sticking out. One of its eyes had layers of bad shed on it that I removed most of which with warm water, but it still can't open that eye fully. Both back legs also have layers, literally, of dead skin stuck to them. I have been using shedding aid spray, and daily baths, but still can't get it all off. The poor thing has puss constantly oozing from its jaw and the aspen gets stuck to it when it burrows. And today I woke up to it sneezing a lot, and I really hope it doesn't have a respiratory infection.

And the part that bothers me the most is that it is missing a toe and the tip of another one. That wasn't shown in the pictures I was originally sent, he had all of his toes in those pictures. When I called Wednesday, I didn't get any response. I got an email the next day stating that he only checks the more aggressive animals, which he also stated that leopard geckos were aggressive animals... But this is a toe on his front foot and you really can't miss it. I have 6 leopard geckos and my adult male chocolate albino (not a giant) weighs more and is bigger than this skink.

I have done a lot of rescue work growing up in a household where my mom ran a wildlife rehab and I've had herps since I was like 4, so I have the experience needed to bring this animal back to full health. But when I paid for it, I expected to get an animal that was described and was in good health. I wasn't really prepared to take on a sick animal. Now I'm just going to have to make time to squeeze in vet visits. It's just really saddening to me that this animals is about 3-4 months old and already has so many physical defects. (And might lose more toes if I cant get the bad shed off soon.)

Here are pictures:

Isn't it illegal to ship via USPS?

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Hopefully you will be able to bring the skink back to health. And with regards to your question, no, it's not illegal to ship skinks USPS.

Good luck to you!

That is horrible that they told you to be ready for a FedEx shipment and then shipped USPS. It is legal to ship well-labelled boxes with lizards through the post office, but not snakes. Did they label the box with "live harmless reptile" and the skinks' species (latin name)? I believe shippers are supposed to do this when shipping USPS.

I'm glad that they are offering you a refund. Are they requiring you to send the skink back to them first? I hope he survives...

No, I'm keeping the skink. I'm using the refund to pay for vet bills. The box was labeled ok, but it was a little surprising anyone would ship a live animal USPS.

Kate,
I fully understand your disappointment with the apparent misrepresentation of the animal, the miscommunications about shipping, and then the apparent poor health of the animal on arrival. I sympathized with your decision in your post to keep the animal, at that time assuming that you spurned the refund. I'm just a little confused later in the thread. You are able to keep the animal and the refund? And if so, then I assume that Scales and Stuff is giving you back the money as a mea culpa gesture? If that is the case, while it does not excuse their earlier actions, it is a noble remedy. While you indicated that you struggled with posting this, I would suggest that under the circumstances, while not a black and white issue, that maybe a negative post was not the best way to handle this. Perhaps something that voiced your concerns and disappointments, but which also acknowleged that they were working with you. That they made some mistakes is unassailable, and I do not excuse it. But if the refund is the fix, as a way of helping with the medical, they deserve some recognition for that.

ZenReptiles said:

...it was a little surprising anyone would ship a live animal USPS.

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Sadly, it happens often. I had three or four people ship live animals via USPS to me last year under the false pretenses that they would be shipping through one of the major couriers. I've now blacklisted these companies and refuse to do business with them in the future (I've actually written a paragraph on each detailing the incidents and company information and will be posting them on my website once complete). This kind of reckless disregard for both the living animal and customer makes me livid.

Good luck with your Blue Tongue. I'm glad it is now in a situation where its life can be benefitted from adequate care.

I don't want to be the skeptic here. I definately don't wanna sound like you have a completely healthy skink. I don't think you do, however it doesn't look like it is in too bad of shape by the pics. Granted skinks often are very hard to see whats going on with them, but it seems to me that with a bit of tlc it will be ok. Please keep us informed.
TOM

sorry, somehow missed the part of your post about oozing puss and such...I retract...
TOM

My reasoning for this post was for other people inquiring about this company. As I stated before, I chose to go with them in the first place because they had good customer service, it wasn't until they shipped out the animal did things get kinda sketchy. I was offered a refund, but this isn't about money. I don't even care if I get the refund back at this point. This about the fact that skink I received was in really poor shape. It wasn't cared for properly. It's left jaw is oozing puss and the aspen is sticking to it, I'm thinking about taking all the aspen out for now until I can find out what is wrong. The poor thing can barely walk and falls over to the one side, I think because his legs are so skinny. It's breathing has been extremely labored since arriving. I'm just really hoping that Scales N Stuff doesn't have other animals like this. It's difficult for me to believe that as packing up the animal he didn't know about the toe or the eye problems. I feel as if I was knowingly shipped an animal in poor shape. If this animal is shipped back, I highly doubt he'll make it back. I'm taking it to the vet on Thursday, so I guess I'll see what she says.

Kate,
Since the refund is not a "done deal", I guess I was confused by your earlier post, which indicated that the refund was going to be used to pay veterinary bills. Did they offer both the refund and that you get to keep the animal ?

Yes, that is correct. Yes it is noble to do make that offer. But I still do not think that is any excuse to ship sick animals out to people on false notions. It's also does not make up for treating any living animal like that. This is a very sick animal, even noticable from far away. I'm more angry at the fact that this baby animal is so ill than I am at the amount of money I paid for it.

I have been offered a full refund, yet that really doesn't make up for what has happened to this poor animal in my mind. And it makes me ask the question, if someone really cares about their reputation and the animals, how could he knowingly ship an animal in this condition?

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Kate,

As you very well stated in the quote this is not about the refund. That animal should have never been shipped in the first place.

One part that I particularly don’t understand from their e-mails is the following:

I got an email the next day stating that he only checks the more aggressive animals, which he also stated that leopard geckos were aggressive animals..

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As a buyer one thing to expect from a company is for them to check every animal that goes out. But even if they check only those that they suspect are not doing well, wouldn’t those be precisely the ones that are lethargic. What do they mean by checking the more aggressive animals?

Regards

Thanks Kate. I thought it important that knowing how they reacted to the problem was important in the larger picture. Couldn't agree more with those who say that there's a problem with the animal being in that condition, much less then shipped. We all know that the good folks out there keep their animals healthy if not perfect, know enough to communicate both timely and accurately with their customers, and then not ship an ill animal. But how they fix it after the fact is still a way in which we evaluate.

I understand what you are saying Chamco.

Boidsmith- The was mostly in regards to the missing toe. I'm still not sure why he would check only aggressive animals myself, and I'm not sure why he thinks leopard geckos are aggressive. I personally would think before he shipped anything, it should've been looked over. And the toe is a little hard to miss. I saw that it was missing before I even took the plastic tub he was in out of the box.

Kate,
I don't think it was a good answer on their part, about "only checking the aggressives". I think that they meant to convey that they look where they "expect" injuries to occur, which while worthy of some credit, also shows worthiness of discredit.

Perhaps I missed it, but what is the seller's name?

thought id lighten up those pics so everyone could get a better idea of the situation.

As far as it being legal or illegal to ship reptiles through the mail, the policy is
"9.3.3 Small Cold-Blooded Animals
Small, harmless, cold-blooded animals (except snakes and turtles) that do not require food or water or attention during handling in the mail and that do not create sanitary problems or obnoxious odors are mailable (e.g., baby alligators and caimans not more than 20 inches long, bloodworms, earthworms, mealworms, salamanders, leeches, lizards, snails, and tadpoles)."

Bert Cash also started up this thread a while ago (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76013), but since I'm the one that started this one here, I'll continue to post here.

I thought I should post and update on the baby skink. The vet bill last Thursday ended up costing me $125. Which is cheaper than when I take my ig in for a routine checkup. (I need to find a new vet soon.) I had a fecal done, which came back negative. The corner of his mouth that was oozing puss was the result of some sort of injury, maybe rubbing against something that was sharp? It has now scabbed over and is black. He was dehydrated and malnourished, which will be easy to get back on track. He's already gained a little weight since I've had him in my care. His hip bones aren't pertruding out as much either. And when I pick him up, he doesn't feel so delicate, as if just holding him will easily crush him. The toes are another issue. He will most likely have these shedding problems his entire life. I have set up a humid hide, continued the daily baths and even tried a little mineral oil and shedding sprays. Nothing is working. He is about to lose another toe, and one of the claws on his front hand is bent like it might fall off. All of his toes are encrusted with shedding skin. I get a little off, and it doesn't seem to make any difference. I haven't seen the supposed check that was in the mail yet, and I honestly don't think I ever will. I'm not even relying on it.

Here are a few pictures, I apologize for the quality, my digi wasn't meant to take pictures of tiny things up close. (It's a Kodak Easy Share CX.)


In this picture, the one toe is covered in shed and that is the one that is missing the very tip of it. This is the side of him that is his "good" side.


This is where you can see the black scab at the corner of his mouth.


Here is the already missing toe and more shedding issues. Also if you can see, the inner toe's claw is about to fall off.


And here's another picture. If you see the top of his head, it doesn't look so great. A lot of scale damage. I'm hoping that after a few sheds, it's get better with time.

The issue with the eye cleared up pretty quick, he most likely just had something stuck in it. He likes to pick out the protein parts of his food and leave the fruits and veggies, so I have to be creative about how I feed him. I usually hide the stuff he won't eat inside the stuff he will eat. Dog food and scrambled eggs seem to work best for this.

I guess this matter is resolved, there's really not much more that I can do from here. I'm just going to continue spoiling the little guy, whom I've named Kanojo (aka Sweetheart).

Eeek, that last pic is really tiny! Ooops, well you get the idea.

Heh, belatedly realized you're from Buffalo. Good to see another WNY herp person. Those vet fees are enormous! I just had to take one of my snakes to the vet, and the vet did a whole lot of stuff (inspected swollen nose, injected local anesthetic, removed scab, excavated pus, flushed the wound, packed with ointment, tested the pus, showed me how to give antibiotics orally, gave me enough Baytril to last 3 weeks) for a $50 something fee. Not sure if it's far from you, but I was very happy with Dr. Carl Tomaschke's service (Seneca Animal Hospital, Elma). He's familiar with lots of different herps, and reptiles & exotics are his specialty.