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So with all of this talk of AV

O

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in the private sector of having it on hand either before keeping hots or considering keeping , how many of us actually have it on hand ? Unless you're a bona fide keeper. educator, researcher, zoo keeper/curator, etc. how in the heck can you obtain AV. I understand the venom banks don't hand it out or sell it to the private keepers. I understand ( and know ) that local hospitals are not in the business to supply you with it. So....................
 
I don't keep any AV. However my situation is perhaps different since I only keep crotalids. Should I be bitten, I would be treated as if it was a timber rattler in the back yard, with CroFab. Being a native snake, you don't have the worry of having to locate AV.
I've never had any desire to keep elapids or anything. Cobras just don't interest me. Even though I love the gaboons I won't keep one, there's just no justification in doing so.
It just works out to my benefit I guess that my venomous interest is our native rattlers. I may keep an eyelash or two one day, but that's as far as it will go.
 
Just out of curiosity how many of you that keep hots have actually been bitten by one? And if so, do you have personal access to anti venom?

-John
 
I don't think it is feasible for private keepers to maintain a stock of antivenom. Quite frankly, chances are pretty good (depending on where you live, of course) that if you are bitten, the docs in the local hospitals aren't going to know what they are doing anyway. But, hot keepers should have a written emergency plan which has the essential information...ie. appropriate antivenom for each species, where to go, who to call, etc
 
I agree with that Harald. I have two envelopes marked Bite Protocols. One stays by the door in th snake room and the other is in the glove compartment of the vehicle.
They contain the information on treatment, symptoms etc. Never assume the ER you visit has ever seen a venomous bite let alone is experienced in treating one. Chances are they'll spend the first half hour on the phone to poison control trying to figure out what to do.
That's a scary enough concept to begin with, but especially so if you're dealing with a species that's immediately life threatening.

In my opinion, for all the preaching you see about keeping a personal stock of AV on hand, I think the number that actually do is very small, and they probably border on not really being a hobbyist anymore due to the collection they have. Some of that stuff is very expensive and it has a shelf life. Over the course of years you could easily invest thousands of dollars in AV that wound up in the sink.
 
I removed my comments about cost and shelf life before I posted, lol...primarily because I don't know the shelf life (at one point I was told 6 months to 1 year, but I have no idea if that is true). And given the # of vials one would have to maintain in the event of a single bite, the first thousand would go quickly, even for CroFab (again, once upon a time, I was told $250/vial of NA crotalid polyvalent...with an initial dose of 6 vials. And that some AV were $1000/vial. Again, these are things I was quoted some years ago, and I cannot confirm their accuracy...then or now)
 
antivenin for exotic snakes is hard to get for your own personal use. you half to have a special doctor that will agree to sign for it. than it has to be shipped from the country where it is made. so you half to go through customs and a bunch of other crazy stuff. the curator @ the philla zoo was talking to me about that. since i do own exotic hot's, but thank god he's a good friend, and if i were to be bitten again i would be able to get the AV for that species. but in all honestlly, i do not think if you do not stock your own AV you shouldent have the snake. here in the U.S. CroFab will treat every north american pit-viper except for Crotalus Viridus im not sure why it dosent work for them but it dosent.
 
one vial of CroFab is $750 now. im not sure about the shelf life but i beleve it's 1 year or less. while i was in the hospital for my eastern bite, i got to meet the representive for crofab and she told me alout about it.
 
hmmmm

I am just curious if you can legally keep hots do you not milk the snakes. Is it another license or do you not have enough snakes to try.
 
the only reason to milk a vemomous snake is for scientifical reaserch or to make antivenom. their is no licence to MILK a venomous snake, but i think you should be highly experienced and have a good reason to milk the snake. if the snake is just a "PET" their is no need to milk it, that is just putting your self in the danger zone. so i would not recomend doing it, unless it is for a scientifical purpose...
 
another dumb beginner question

I live in southern GA where it is legal to keep indigenous venomous snakes (except coral). As of now I am not comfortable handling any hot over 4 feet so this is not something I am going to jump into but I could milk these?
Down here you can find rattlers and cottonmouths every day during the summer. We also have an island that is said to have a rattler for every 3 cubic feet. I know during the summer there is usually a shortage during the summer for the AV. Just thinking in the next couple of years maybe I can contribute. How do you do the process of milking, I have heard that the venom is freeze dried but how do you obtain the equipment. Like I said nothing I am going to try any time soon, but would like to know for a future decision.
 
you need to be a scientist or biologist to milk venom for reasersh or antivenom. and if you dont feel comfortable handling a venomous snake over 4' i would half to say that you are not experienced enough to milk a venomous snake. since larger snakes will give you a larger venom yeild.
 
Exactly, not worth the risk for me or my family (although my mom deal with them). Just thinking later on down the road. I have seen Bill Haas' hands not something I would want mine to look like.
 
and i saw that you are a beginner. so the last thing on your mind should be milking a venomous snake. i know all about GA i was boarn and raised in florida. and i did alout of feild reaserch in southern GA. their is alout of awsome snakes in that state. and i do beleve you need a permit to keep and to catch venomous snake in the state. i might be wrong. from what you know, tell me how you would catch and than milk a venomous snake for no reason. the only thing that is going to do is pi$$ the snake off, and than you will most likley make a mistake and get bit or you will be taking that snakes presious venom that it uses for feeding...
 
well bill haast has many many years of experience and he has been envenomated over 150+ times. i was tagged by my west african bush viper (atheris chloroechis) and i only have about 60% of my left index finger left. like i said before, their is "NO REASON TO MILK A VENOMOUS SNAKE UNLESS IT IS FOR SCIENTIFICAL REASERCH OR ANTIVENIN"...
 
It would not be for no reason, just to help with the AV banks. I don't keep hots now, at this time I have no legitimate reason to keep a venomous snake. Not into the "look what I got" thing. Just thinking about helping thats all. My mom is a licensed rehabber in GA so that is what peaked my curiosity and one of my friends is one of the few licensed alligator trappers in GA.
 
thats really cool what your mom and friend do. but if you would like to help out with the antivenin bank, i would call them and find out if in your state if you half to have a degree in biology or something like that. because i highly doubt that they will buy or take antivenin from just anyone. because than all kinds of people will be out looking for hots and milking them. the antivenin banks have herpetologists that collect the snakes for milking or sometimes even use captive snakes for it..
 
Also cancer is real bad in my family, you either die from an accident or cancer gets you. Since 2000 we have buried 8 relatives that has died from cancer. I have read that some insurance companies for alot of research facilities do not cover the venomous side and they can no longer milk on site so they end up buying from private individuals. But this is not something I am planning to do any time soon. I was hoping to get on with a place that does it near here and learn from them. Just looking at something down the road like 16 years, when my little girl grows up.
 
Back to post 18. That the info I am looking for, I can find every other states requirements except for GA. Too many things contradict themselves here especially between DNR and State Code.
 
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