Evolution of Pets/Koi Pet Store, Edmonton - Bad Guys

Someone requested this thread go in the Amarican BOI

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90966

thanks

Thanks Bill!

Wes Pollock? Where are you? You can help out here!

No one knows how to deal with animal-abusers better than you do.

Gino 'In Da Bronx' Beniquez

Evolution of pets

I do believe that the individuals that required the posting of the message to the BOI, require their heads to be examined for prior to putting up their complaint there was no research done on any of the animal conditions in question they just seen something and decided that there was cruelty being done there. I don't know about you but when ever I had to do any kind of work that required some form of a paper trail, I researched my subject first to ensure that my assumption was a correct one and not something that was incorrect and going to make me look like a complete idiot.

But then that is my opinion. So remember people prior to condemning something that you don't know anything about let's all just do a little research and find out how the Idiot's really are...

Have a good day.

one more thing, this is great free publicity. the more people that come out just to ask questions the more people that just might buy a reptile or decide to Join Reptile Rescue, which by the way Michelle the proprieter of the shop is a member of and where she recieved some of these lizards from... but with a little bit of fore thought the person that wrote this up could have found out herself...

Daven, you obviously know just as little about the care of animals as Michelle does.

ignorance

Wow! Daven, it must be embarrassing for you to be that ignorant!

To all of my fellow Americans, please take the time to look up this thread (of the same name) on the Canadian BOI. It isn't for the squeamish though, as there are photos of some horrible abuse.

Please help.

Gino 'In Da Bronx' Beniquez

Evolution of pets

I see that people are quick to judge on things they no little about. That is fine, all I ask is that if you have any intellegence at all then maybe you should take the time to go there and learn for yourself that there is no mistreatment of animals... You see in pictures animals that are missing tails and some with puffed up eyes. So naturally there is cruelty... Animals that have been mistreated by previous owners and then nursed back to health is what has happened...

Obviously, what is going on here is not a cry for justice it is a cry for something else... People cannot stand the site of creatures being nursed back to health... From what I gather is this if it is hurt then hide it. If it is missing something then hide it. But if it is whole and healthy then let the world see it. I'm sorry people but Evolution of Pets is not like that, an animal is no less important or deserving of love because it is whole. They treat all animals the same. Unlike the rest of humanity who over the years have had to change their views on who is deserving... of anything.

Evolution of Pets - treats all creatures with the love and respect that they deserve.

Humanity - Still trying to catch up to this standard, we cannot even treat one species with the love and respect that they deserve... History proves that.

Ginoindabronx, for someone located in the states (this is my ignorance), I'm amazed how quick you are to judge on something that you can only see in pictures. Are you in some way able to get down here and ask the questions or is one persons view the only one that is correct... I'm sorry that I have no photos of the care that Michelle and her staff give the animals. So really who is the ignorant one here, the one that can and only will see one side of the situation or the one that is willing to ask the questions so that they can be well informed....

One more question for you Devon, why did you remove the ability to post replies on Youtube, didn't get the feed back that you desired there. If I recall out of five replies on your film only one agreed with you and the other four were against your views. So let me gues if they don't agree with you then no one else is allowed to view that opinion. I'm sorry you believe that way... DevonV way or the highway... There was a person in history like that once...

clue

Mordayn said:

Ginoindabronx, for someone located in the states (this is my ignorance), I'm amazed how quick you are to judge on something that you can only see in pictures. Are you in some way able to get down here and ask the questions or is one persons view the only one that is correct... I'm sorry that I have no photos of the care that Michelle and her staff give the animals. So really who is the ignorant one here, the one that can and only will see one side of the situation or the one that is willing to ask the questions so that they can be well informed....

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Daven,lets see you stick up for people that run this "pet shop" and you expect someone to believe what you are saying but you have no proof to show us.I suggest you get a clue before you tell someone they are ignorant because they have passed judgment on these clowns that run this "pet shop".The only way animals can get that way is if the are ABUSED point blank! If these are rescues or such why are they kept in so bad conditions? Just to let you know we (USA) have our own scumbag that was first exposed by pictures because of his poor husbandry skills in caring for his reptiles.I wonder if they are related in someway? Now i think you should have your head examined for attempting to protect these scumbags

Daven ... I am fairly new to herping and I must say that most of what i know comes from societies and you may not believe this but from books and in everybook I have read and I do have a reasonable collection since I have water dragons and tegus... no where have I ever read that it is a good idea to mix species in a tank even for a short interim period of time.

Knowing as you seem to do that these animals are in very poor health , you have to agree that just one voiding in the tank stands the chance of spreading parasites to all the others in the tank of which there is a chance however small that those parasites could prove to be fatal to the other animals since they are so much biologically different.

Not only that but upon seeing dragons and a tegu in with an igg can be nothing but bad since 3 of the 4 critters there are omnivores and can and will take a bite at anything small enough to fit in their mouths including tails and toes of each other or the ailing igg which apparently has virtually no chance of defence since according to posts made has spinal damage and cannot climb or walk very well ( posted by the store owner don't argue the facts )

If it was dragons with dragons of a similar size or tegu's of similar size then it would not be an issue but these animals all have very different needs and being housed together no matter how long just contributes to their already terrible condition.

Now to go beyond that.. people have gone on record stating the floors are covered with carpet and are fecal stained, not much of an argument there is there. Running a store with animals and sick ones in particular, you always ( ALWAYS ) stand the risk of them voiding while being handled so why on earth would you stick to carpet when you know that your going to have to contend with pollutants caused by said voiding.
People walk through dried remnants of this and dust particles get airborne and travel into tanks to possibly spread infection too.

No matter how you try to paint this picture... facts are facts and facts state that until this shop is cleaned up and the animals all dealt with by proper vets or others with the proper training to deal with their individual needs... then this shop needs to be shut down and all the issues solved.

Now considering the number of people willing to help and do what it takes to get the animals back to proper health... to me personally it is insane not to take them up on their offers to come in and help.
The owner may believe she is doing what is right by the animals but come on now, the pictures show that education is in order here too and there are a vast number of breeders and store owners as well as the 2 main societies in Alberta that would be very happy to help correct this and in turn it would be an evolutionary step for this store owner too.

This is in no way an attack on anybody but it is a clear and concise statement that under no circumstances should we allow emotions to rule the posts here. The reason for this is the animals health and safety and if we as a community can help this store owner and/or future reptile owners see that there is a right and wrong way to perform proper husbandry for any form of herps then maybe things will be better sooner rather than later.

Mordayn said:

I'm amazed how quick you are to judge on something that you can only see in pictures.

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Ok, I’m asking. The pictures show a bearded dragon, tegu, and iguana in the same enclosure.
How is this beneficial? The iguana as noted by both sides, along with many of the other animals, is in poor condition. How is it possible that keeping all three animals that have different basic requirements beneficial? The only position offered in defense has been

Originally Posted by buddha_in_disneyland
Where in the world an animal is from is irrelivent to its requierments, silly.

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Without a doubt, that has to be the worst possible defense to put forth here in a community that specializes in knowing basic requirements of reptiles.

While it is possible (not recommending it) to keep different species together, how could one keep animals from different parts of the world that are sick and require different basic needs in the same enclosure and improve them at the same time? Obviously, I don’t know as much as I thought. Please enlighten me.

Daven, please know that the concerns being brought forward regarding Evolution of Pets are not coming from one or two people. They are coming from many individuals who have been there in person, myself included.

Mordayn said:

...the more people that come out just to ask questions the more people that just might buy a reptile or decide to Join Reptile Rescue, which by the way Michelle the proprieter of the shop is a member of and where she recieved some of these lizards from...

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What organization do you speak of? To my knowledge there is no organization in Edmonton called "Reptile Rescue". Please enlighten me!

Daven, my family has an animal rescue and we rehabilitate animals, including many reptiles, A LOT. I see a lot of abuse and neglect and know many other people that rescue and rehab animals that see it as well. The animals we take care of, however, are kept in optimal conditions, so that they can heal and thrive. Anybody that sees our enclosures cannot complain as there is nothing to complain about, and If I find I am making a mistake, I am happy to take the advice of people more knowledgeable then myself. If something is noticeably wrong with an animal, I am not going to take it and put it on display, not because it is ugly but because it is healing, and it is stressed, and by nature it wants to be LEFT ALONE, in good conditions. We have taken healthy, but deformed (missing a limb, etc) to shows for display but this is AFTER their wounds have healed and once they are acting normally. As somebody that has had Iguanas, beardies, and australian water dragons and know of many people with Golden Tegus, I can tell you that those animals are very obviously ill. That iguana is not going to get better without high humidity, that beardie needs room to run, desert conditions, and strong UVB...The Aussie Water Dragon requires high humidity and a huge place to swim...The tegu needs to be able to dig, and also requires high humidity! None of these animals are getting what they REQUIRE to be HEALTHY and they will NOT IMPROVE. I have been to this store numerous times over the past few years and these animals only decline.

I am going to go take a picture of my current reptile set up, which includes a cage with two australian water dragons.

The reason I stopped comments on the Youtube video was because it had no explanation as to what was on the video, and could be very easily misinterpreted by people with no knowledge of reptiles. I directed all swearing, angry messengers to the BOI so that they can yell at me here.

The Giant Cage on the left holds two subadult australian water dragons, the same size as the one shoved in with the iguana, bearded dragon, and tegu. They have two UVB lights, and three heatlamps. On the shelf to the right, there is a subadult Chinese Water dragon whose back legs were paralyzed when he arrived due to lack of calcium, but he is getting better every day. Above him, in the mesh cage, there is a mountain horned dragon that was surrendered by a Petsmart. She has to be forcefed as she will not eat on her own, but she is otherwise healthy, and has been treated for parasites and has had two fecal exams. To the left of her are two exoterras, the top containing a young crested gecko and the bottom containing a tarantula.



That's one of my four snakes...

Notice how her skin isn't wrinkled? That's what healthy snakes look like.

Mordayn said:

Ginoindabronx, for someone located in the states (this is my ignorance), I'm amazed how quick you are to judge on something that you can only see in pictures. Are you in some way able to get down here and ask the questions or is one persons view the only one that is correct... I'm sorry that I have no photos of the care that Michelle and her staff give the animals. So really who is the ignorant one here, the one that can and only will see one side of the situation or the one that is willing to ask the questions so that they can be well informed....

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In case you never heard of the old saying, a picture is worth a thousand words. Ive seen those pictures and read about different angles or what not, Those animals need to be taken care of. and if you feel the need to stand behind them, then that makes you no better then them. People like this need to be taken out in a swamp and tied to a stump, Let the bugs and the alligators do the rest. But what I do find deplorable about you is the fact you added this piece of garbage to a list of Great people in this hobby.

Mordayn said:

I would like to add just one
Michelle - Evolution of Pets
My family and friends stand behind her all the way...

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http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27387&page=2

Bill_Leverton said:

In case you never heard of the old saying, a picture is worth a thousand words. Ive seen those pictures and read about different angles or what not, Those animals need to be taken care of. and if you feel the need to stand behind them, then that makes you no better then them. People like this need to be taken out in a swamp and tied to a stump, Let the bugs and the alligators do the rest. But what I do find deplorable about you is the fact you added this piece of garbage to a list of Great people in this hobby. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27387&page=2

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Sorry about that http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27387

Bill_Leverton said:

But what I do find deplorable about you is the fact you added this piece of garbage to a list of Great people in this hobby.

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I agree. That was beyond unnecessary.

You know, comments have been made about these animals being "rescues", and how at least they are alive now, when they could have just put them down". Are they really doing these animals a favor?

My question is, what benefit is life, when there is no QUALITY of life? Perhaps euthanasia would be a more humane choice, if they are not willing to surrender these animals to someone who will give them the proper things needed to just have a decent life.....just surviving is not truly "living".

So the best way to help/treat rescued reptiles is to crowd them in small tanks with other species of sick/injured animals and display them in your store? How can that added stress (of people walking around, other animals etc...) possibly help in the recovery? Wow.