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Inquiry, Denise Latanzi AKA, Denisebme www.Calidragons.com

varnyard

varnyard

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I wanted to make an inquiry about Denise Latanzi AKA www.Calidragons.com. She is claiming that all of her dragons have negative tests on the Adeno Virus, however she is the only breeder of dragons that I know of making this claim now.

Any info?
 
Bobby

No offense meant here but this thread is not an inquiry...it is a direct attack. You are not planning a transaction with Denise, you are simply continuing your attack from the other thread here.

There is nothing wrong with this thread except which forum it is in. It is perfectly acceptable for the Bearded Dragon Discussion Forum but, most certainly, does not meet the criteria for the BOI.

JMHO
 
John, I disagree, this is why.

Originally Posted by Denisebme
I actually had this question too when I decided to use PCR testing. The testing we did was not blood specific, but also required a cloacal swab to test for shed. I was told that the blood tests alone will pick up any trace of Adeno, not just the virus that is specific to bearded dragons and can be spread. The swab is used to confirm the test is beardie specific if the blood shows positive results.
Click to expand...

Here she claims to use PCR blood testing, because it was what she thought was the best.

Originally Posted by Denisebme
The PCR testing has to be done through your vet, if they have the testing avaliable, or you can contact Dr. Jacobson for a kit to take to your vet for the swab and the draw(Its a blood test).
Click to expand...

She claims here how this testing can be done, and that it is a blood test.


Originally Posted by DenisebmeI didn't want to wait weeks for the test results, and I didn't want to second guess the results, so I went for the more sensative test, and that is PCR. I also found that here in California, its much easier to find someone who can accurately handle the PCR test.
I know that for most people, cost is a big issue. It was for me, I had 15 dragons I needed to test as quickly as possible. The fecal testing is less expensive. My concern was accuracy.
Click to expand...

Here she again claims to use the PCR, that she claims is a blood test in the above statements. She also claims she did not do fecal because of accuracy.


Originally Posted by Denisebme:
All the dragons currently in my home have tested negative both on Fecal EM and PCR testing.
Click to expand...

But here she claims to use both of them, also makes the claim that all of her dragons tested negative.


I decided to go with PCR testing after doing a couple fecal, its simply more reliable. It is more expensive, but I didn't want to worry about the reliability of the test. I had the tests done and held my breath.
Click to expand...

Here she also claims yet again that she has done a couple of fecal tests.

Originally Posted by Denisebme:
All the dragons currently in my home have tested negative both on Fecal EM and PCR testing.
Click to expand...

So this throws a red flag for sure. She claimed to do only a PCR blood, but then changes her story to also doing the fecals.

She is also the only one that claims to have a PCR blood test. There was another that was telling this same story but is now busted for lying about her testing.

Here is proof of this: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97996

Now why would someone lie about the testing, unless they were pulling a scam? Denise is the only breeder now to claim to be virus free. Every other breeder I know of that has tested has positive tests but her. She is clearly not telling the truth in her quotes above, this is the reason I feel this tread needs to be on the BOI. She also refuses to show any of these so called test results, or even any lab that done them.
 
I actually sold Denise two dragons from my first breeding season. She was very professional and even refused a shipping refund when UPS did not deliver on time. She was supportive of me when I found out that in my second season of breeding, my yellow male was a carrier for adenovirus.

I have always viewed her posts as level headed and well thought out. We have emailed many times and I have never had any reason to doubt her integrity or motives. So having said that, I will go on record saying I do NOT think she is lying about this. I do believe it will come out that she IS telling the truth.

Based on my business transcactions and personal dealings with Denise Latanzi, I consider her to be an ethical and honest person. That has been my experience and I do believe that if this had been handled differently you all would have your answers by now.
 
Bobby it's before my second cup of coffee but I see in your quotes that she did blood tests but do not see where she specifically said she did not do fecal tests.

I do not know much about the testing and I should learn more but just based on the quotes I don't see anything that would lead me to believe Denise is not being forthright. Help me out here and go over again why you think this?
 
Are you friends with Dachiu or Sunshine or any other Breeder that may have or are staying silent about the spread of this virus.

Not that they would have it or anything or spread it

of course this is not fact just my thoughts for this morning

Just a question no need for attacks here
 
Originally Posted by Denisebme:
I tested all 15 of mine, PCR testing was the route I chose. My breeders from last year, Trex and Anya, both tested Negative.
My planned Pairs for this year are as follows:
Kahli (Chris Allen Redx Redflame) X Percy (Chris Allen red), both Negative.
Tinkerbelle (Chris Allen Red x Redflame) x Rocky (Cawley red+Hypo Red x Flaming Tiger), Both Negative.

Anya also tested negative, as did Pheonix, Sandy and Astraea. We are unsure at this time if any of these dragons will be paired this year, depending on the market.

Scheduled to enter our breeding program next year are Hera, Elle, and Daphne, all are negative.
Click to expand...


Originally Posted by DenisebmeI didn't want to wait weeks for the test results, and I didn't want to second guess the results, so I went for the more sensative test, and that is PCR. I also found that here in California, its much easier to find someone who can accurately handle the PCR test.
I know that for most people, cost is a big issue. It was for me, I had 15 dragons I needed to test as quickly as possible. The fecal testing is less expensive. My concern was accuracy.

Here you go, Lucille. I will also add, she is now the only one to make this claim to do the PCR blood swab testing on this virus.
No one can find any lab that is testing PCR blood swab testing on this virus.
 
walker75, I have many friends that are breeders, but this has nothing to do with these false claims. As for Dachiu, Vicky is the Moderator over the bearded dragon forums here. I know they have not been silent. As for Sunshine, I have never meet them or even had a conversation with them.

I am not friends with anyone that is being silent.

Dachiu, has been actlively looking for informain on this virus and this type of testing.
 
varnyard said:
walker75, I have many friends that are breeders, but this has nothing to do with these false claims. As for Dachiu, Vicky is the Moderator over the bearded dragon forums here. I know they have not been silent. As for Sunshine, I have never meet them or even had a conversation with them.

I am not friends with anyone that is being silent.

Dachiu, has been actlively looking for informain on this virus and this type of testing.
Click to expand...

Translation: Yes I am friends with Vicki but not any of the others you have mentioned. :)
 
If she isn't being honest about her tests then I agree throw the book at her.

I'm confused though Bobby on one hand you have down played the virus and have minimized it's threat which I can kind of understand since there is a lot to be learned about this virus. You have no issue with Big breeders who are fairly certain their colonies are infected selling babies because so little is known. Yet because they refuse to test or release the tests you can hide behind the fact that it isn't proven they have infected babies. Yet you find this ethically alright.

On the other hand you cruicfy someone who has tested her dragons and found them positive and decided to stop breeding in effect getting out of the business side of it.

You also attack someone who claims to have tested and they come back negative. Know if she isn't honest about the tests I agree there is some concern there, but even so with your feelings on the virus what does it matter? If the virus isn't dangerous enough for the big breeders to stop breeding and selling why should it be for the small breeders. In effect why would you view her as scamming (other than lying) yet not view those who refuse to test yet are sure they have infected dragons as scammers. Seems to me you are trying to create a catch 22 in your favor.
 
shrap said:
Translation: Yes I am friends with Vicki but not any of the others you have mentioned. :)
Click to expand...


Someone somewhere else named alot of breeders that where not mentioned in the possible spread of this as having high color morphs..

That may or may not have this Adenovirus or as to Mentioning testing one way or another

One named I found this am that was left off the list was Alpha Dragons
he has high color morphs also and he exports these animals

Again not to say he has it but he also was left off the list

At this point IF I had bought and spent what people have on high color morphs dragons ....the high dollar being asked for them and being paid ...

To find out down the road 2 or 4 or 6 years later that they are positive and I had no idea I would be fuming as It is devastating to say the least.

I would post it and not stay SILENT anymore with proof

One positive dragon has lead to some losing their colonies.

Cross contamination proven

The loss is just unbelievable let alone the emotional take these people have gone through.


Again just my thought this am

As for Denise

I also know if I had proof at this second I was Negative I would not post

Who in their right mind would

This is good old day bullying

I am just So sorry that this Virus is destroying many colonies of good hearted people trying to do the right thing.

Yes I do believe there are negative colonies out there
 
walker75 said:
I am just So sorry that this Virus is destroying many colonies of good hearted people trying to do the right thing.
Click to expand...


I've been following this issue casually for the last few months, since I got my first beardies, and have followed the events of the past few days avidly.

I don't have enough information to form an opinion on the subject yet, and am asking this question not to stir controversy, but because I genuinely do not know.

Who has lost a colony to this virus?

I've read many statements from people saying they have outwardly healthy, normal dragons that have tested positive.

I know that Tere has a pair of siblings that are positive, apparently healthy, but significantly smaller than the rest of their siblings.

Again, not to stir controversy, but other than the unfortunate woman who had some of her animals put down on bad advice, who can actually say "my animal died from Adeno"?

Perhaps these statements have been made, and I missed them. If I'm asking for redundant information, I apologize.
 
I lost 40 plus babies to this virus last season and it was traced back to my male Clyde. He was not bred my first season and I had healthy large babies. All of the clutches ended up being cross infected last season and when I re-tested my remaining colony this season all came back positive. So, I had many hatchling die offs and I choose to not breed anymore and pass this on to anyone else. There are others that it has wiped out, but choose not to come forward. This virus does not always kill the babies, but they can still infect other dragons. Clyde seemed perfectly healthy, yet this virus infected 300+ babies.
 
monkeywrench133 said:
I've been following this issue casually for the last few months, since I got my first beardies, and have followed the events of the past few days avidly.

I don't have enough information to form an opinion on the subject yet, and am asking this question not to stir controversy, but because I genuinely do not know.

Who has lost a colony to this virus?

I've read many statements from people saying they have outwardly healthy, normal dragons that have tested positive.

I know that Tere has a pair of siblings that are positive, apparently healthy, but significantly smaller than the rest of their siblings.

Again, not to stir controversy, but other than the unfortunate woman who had some of her animals put down on bad advice, who can actually say "my animal died from Adeno"?

Perhaps these statements have been made, and I missed them. If I'm asking for redundant information, I apologize.
Click to expand...

Erin-

We lost several babies due to the virus...the siblings to the ones that are small for their age.
 
I'm very sorry Wendy, but thank you for answering my question.

I hope you understand, having not heard of any directly linked deaths, I had to wonder what, exactly, all the controversy was about.
 
Otter_23: I'm confused though Bobby on one hand you have down played the virus and have minimized it's threat which I can kind of understand since there is a lot to be learned about this virus. You have no issue with Big breeders who are fairly certain their colonies are infected selling babies because so little is known. Yet because they refuse to test or release the tests you can hide behind the fact that it isn't proven they have infected babies. Yet you find this ethically alright.
Click to expand...

I never said minimized threat, it is killing dragons, there is proof of this everywhere. There are also dragons that do live with it.

I also never stated ethically alright to breed these animals anywhere. I have not said that is was fine to breed them or sell them.

What I have said is that it is wrong to be the only one that claims to have clean dragons and claim to use testing on this virus there is no proof of.

To claim to be the only one to have 15 clean dragons, (all of her dragons) IMO, needs to be backed up with proof. Before she makes the same claims when she starts selling babies.

No other breeder that has tested has clean dragons, what does that tell you? Where did she get all of these clean dragons, when everyone else has the virus in theirs?
 
I too am sorry for those who have lost dragons. This is a concern for all of us who own dragons, as I do.

Just a thought: the BOI is an appropriate place to come forward if someone has done you wrong in a business deal. It gets pretty heated and appropriately so.

But to me, it might be good to foster an environment to deal with this illness where people come forward and share, rather than an environment of blame. If we focus on blame no one will come forward with information for fear they will be attacked. That's not the way to solve a disease process.

Scientists will often come together and speak of their views, just brainstorming and sharing ideas. I think that would be a good process so that perhaps someone might come up with observations that might help everyone.
 
Denise's position has always been that she will not post proof on a public message board, which would put her at risk for those results being stolen. I think everyone reading this is beginning to understand the reasoning behind that now.

Just because the "proof" isn't coming quickly enough for any of you, doesn't mean that it isn't coming, or that it doesn't exist. It means that Denise is still going to do it exactly the way she originally said she would do, which is to present proof that she PCR tested in a manner that she's still protected.

Again, just because you've chosen to target her doesn't mean that she shoud have to sacrifice anything to please you.

I'm still not real sure what good any proof would do, as anyone could have figured out by now that you will only go on to attack the credibility of her vet and her lab.

Now, for those of you who haven't talked to her, I would like to say that Denise is currently at a huge risk of being "fired" from her vet, and her vet's lab is threatening to stop doing business with her vet because of all the harrassment that has been taking place by others questioning Denise's TEST RESULTS...not whether or not she tested, or what method of testing she used, which you guys have stated is all you wanted.

I will state again, that you have no right to demand her test results. You have no interest in purchasing dragons from her, particularly since she has none for sale.

I am absolutely positive that Denise will offer proof that she PCR tested her dragons, and that her breeding colony is CURRENTLY 100% negative. But, what Denise will NOT do is something to jeopardize herself just to satisfy you.
 
Tere, if someone has the proof that this testing has been done and could help this hobby by posting that proof, then why is it such a secret?

This is the only problem I really have with this picture. To make the claim to be the only one of two that had clean tests on this virus, IMO needs to be backed up with facts.

One of them was already caught not having proof of this test, or virus free dragons.

If I am so wrong, then someone can feel free to prove that by posting the proof. I will admit I was wrong, I will post it everywhere I have been with this, but it requires proof.
 
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