Jim, I will not even bother to answer your question addressed to me
1) it is in several places on a few threads including this one and 30 seconds on a search engine will give you the answers if you can no comprehend what I say and others have already repeated.
2) it is rude with no basic for being like that
3) as far as I know, no one crowned you a king of anything and me a subject to you
that you can command me to only type certain things on any public forum. I think you are in the master/puppet mode a little too much and it becomes a way of life
4) Everytime we try to start having discussion on a thread that is to try and work towards something that we as a group can agree on or brainstorm regarding this for the health and possible future of this species, it seems like this crap starts on it. Turn on fans??? don't write anything but what I tell you??? dance puppet dance!!
The big question, and that has been my question for 5 years. What are we as an industry going to do to try and protect those that are negative here or that are brought into the US (whether some believe that or not does not matter and they sure as hell are not about to come on here and announce it after the garbage of the last week) and rebuild captive colonies that are as the Doctors state now and for years have said the same thing?
Business as usual? <--That has been the option of breeders that knew this for at least 5-6 years that I know of and personally I think that sucks and has caused the amount of positive that are being seen now
Business as usually but with notice and/or education to buyers, be they someone just looking for a pet or someone looking for future breeders.... like a care sheet/info sheet?
Breeders that are positive acknowledging it openly on their sites or when they sell?
What can we all come together with one plan that we ask anyone selling positive dragons to adhere to? INFORM the Buyers?
Give out Vet/Researchers statements with the care sheets?
Make them available at shows in the US through promoters? Online sites? Referral to a location online to read the info with them sold?
Ask Pet stores to participate?
Breeder/owners come up with a plan of action and routine that makes less stress on babies when they move from breeder to new owner and then how the new owner should handle the situation there? One breeder who has a thread on FC, has complaints about babies getting very sick and/or dying shortly after arriving in their new homes, yet some breeder have rare complaints like that and it is believed because of the ways those babies are cared for at the breeder facility and then prepared for shipping... do we improve on that to lessen the ones having "stress related complication" that are positive?
Ask breeders/owners to conduct a necropsy on dragons that die without a easily seen reason and to make sure that specifically looks for markers of adenovirus for being the cause? Report those to a central group?
With just one of those negative in the owner/breeder hands, they have proof that a dragon in their colony or at least that sibling in a clutch, did not show any trace of adenovirus that caused illness and death or that It DID SHOW IT. As I said before and many times that I can not seem to get across, that is much more valuable than a test that detects ANY species virus or detects a possible one that is not a cause of illness or death!
A necropsy can be done for very little cost, I have more than one place that does them free and have referred others to them that were tested for adenovirus over the last 5 years. Even if not free, you can have a section done for about $40 and if they detect possible markers for adenovirus, advance studies sent out for $30.
There are other ways than just PCR or EM to detect adenovirus ( there are other ways than a fecal sample to use those also) and there are some of those that detect illness associated with that, which are more effective than PRC or EM alone!
RE: years of testing, it is my understanding that the first lizard sequence of information of adenovirus which included bearded dragons was done in 2004 and published in Dec 2004. When you said several years I took that to mean more than a few or a lot longer than this. This is not a big deal, but my point was that some of us were testing with the means available prior to PRC and those were as accurate as they looked for markers of DISEASE, not just any adenoviral cell that could mean nothing and we were getting negatives.
Also, is it possible to not attribute a quote to a doctor without citing or copying his quote or the printed source as I think a lot or misunderstanding is coming in from stating Dr so & so says this, but it is not accurate. I am not saying it is intentional, but the way a conversation was remembered or repeated may not be accurate and in this thread alone there are some statements made that I think are inaccurate and not what the Dr said and it does mislead people although not intentional.
Light mircoscope is very useful for differentiating whether or not an animal that is known by other means to be infected with Agamid AdV1 has disease associated with the infection
All I am trying to say and it seems I can not get that accross is that we have the ability in other tests that we can do, to find out if there not only an adenovirus, but if there is DISEASE associated with illness or death in bearded dragons
Some breeders years ago knew
they had a fatal form as they had death and illness in their colonies because they had a necropsy that showed it. How was that handled? I know, it was sweep under the table, business as usually.
5.2. Does adenovirus cause disease in bearded dragons? Yes, illness and death have been documented in bearded dragons with confirumed adenovirus infection and organ injury consistent with viral infection.
How do you think Julain, Durhan, Fyre, Kim, MItchell, Bauer, Poston, Cho the list can go on a long ways, including Jacobson, knew these were adenovirus related deaths or illness or that is was even adenovirus before PRC or it was sequenced that they did their prior published studies from?
What can and are we going to do? Nothing? Notes on a page? Any other suggestions ideas or others that want to expand or oppose some of the above? or is it sweep under again?