Bad Guy Hooked on Fish and Corals - Parasites

IslandLizards

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We purchased two Chameleons from Hooked on Fish and Corals from the
Broward/Dade show in Pembroke Pines on 1/5/2019.

One of the Chameleons was a Captive Bred female Panther Tamatave. The
other was an imported male Panther Vohemar. The issue of concern is with
the male Vohemar.

Initial visual inspection while at the show depicted dark coloration and
sunken eyes. Typical signs of stress and dehydration but is somewhat a
common occurrence with the shows and what the animals are put through.

The animal refused to eat once he was taken back with us while in quaratine and still showed signs of dark coloration and sunken eyes. The animal was visually observed drinking and we received a defecation two days later which showed no signs of dehydration in the urates.
As with all animals we purchase, a vet appointment was scheduled the
following Monday for the upcoming Friday for a routine fecal and general checkup. As the week progressed the animal was getting slightly worse. On Friday (1/12/19) we headed to the vet appt and the animal passed while en route.

A fecal exam showed a very large amount of Ophidascaris. The incubation period of this specific roundworm parasite is approximately 2 weeks. Due to the quantity of detected parasites in the specimen, it is estimated that the animal contracted the parasites at least 4+ weeks prior to sampling.

During initial discussion with the vendor prior to purchase there were
some concerns that were brought up in regards to the animal.

1. How long have you had it and when was it imported?
I was told November. Upon further discussions after notifying them of the
death they said they got it a week before the show and it was doing fine.

2. Has it been tested and assuming everything is fine?
Was told yes tested clean




Now the issue is that upon notifying the merchant of the death of the animal they requested pictures. Pictures were sent as well as the lab results. They refused to provide a refund and instead offered 50% another animal.
I then was contacted by the other owner (Martin) and he seemed like he was willing to work something out but wanted to get back to me while he figured out what he wanted to do. A day goes by, I ask for an update he says they are busy, I agree and say tomorrow is fine. Next day...same thing, we are busy. The 4th day I message stating that due to his lack of communication he doesn't want to work on the issue. I get a message almost immediately stating he can call me that evening. I told him to not worry about it and will resolve it on our own.



Hooked on Fish & Corals
1165 W 49 Street
Ste. 104
Hialeah, FL 33012
(786) 542-1682
www.hookedonfishandcorals.com


Rodriguez, Tomas
786-448-9044

Lopez, Martin
305-224-2204


Further investigation on Facebook and Google Maps reviews depict the same thing as a common occurrence with other animals as well. Not sure why Repticon still allows them to vend.
 
Further investigation on Facebook and Google Maps reviews depict the same thing as a common occurrence with other animals as well.

Have you notified them of this thread? Could you please provide screen shots of your research?
 
Will, I'm sorry that the poor critter died, and you got the runaround from the owners.

I think I would have agreed to wait for Martin's call that evening. I have no way of knowing if he had any intention of calling you, but with the animal already deceased, what difference would a few more hours make?

How did you make payment?
 
Have you notified them of this thread? Could you please provide screen shots of your research?

I have not notified them. I was going to get all supporting docs later today.


Will, I'm sorry that the poor critter died, and you got the runaround from the owners.

I think I would have agreed to wait for Martin's call that evening. I have no way of knowing if he had any intention of calling you, but with the animal already deceased, what difference would a few more hours make?

How did you make payment?

Based on how he was speaking on the phone when I initially spoke to him and being very adamant that he will not give a refund I decided to give them a few more days. Then after the repeated delays with the call backs I figured it was a lost cause. I even offered to take a partial refund from the initial purchase price.
I also own a business and CS is #1. It doesn't take long to call someone, tell them you will process a refund then have an employee or yourself process the refund.
I paid with Credit Card and have a receipt.

On the receipt is doesn't mention a no refund/return policy nor did they have one posted at time of sale.
 

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Not sure why Repticon still allows them to vend.
It's extremely rare for Repticon to ban a vendor; usually they will rent tables to whoever wants them. I only know of one instance where they did ban a vendor, and it was because the vendor was convicted of violating multiple wildlife/smuggling laws, not because he sold critters that were sick or riddled with parasites.
 
Yeah case is open.

I didn't think Repticon would do anything especially since they allow plumbers and contractors to rent tables.
 
Since you did see stress symptoms at the time you purchased the animal and waited five days to take it to the vet while it got worse, it may be that each party could have done things a little different. I think sellers should never try to sell animals that appear sick or stressed, but if buyers note these symptoms perhaps they should pass on the purchase.

I think that many show vendors would not offer a five day warranty on chameleons in particular because a lot depends on the husbandry skills of a buyer. Many show vendors don't offer warranties and instead address each case according to circumstances.

I would like to see the communication screen shots, if they did in fact promise to get back with you with a resolution and have not done so that is worrisome.
 
Since you did see stress symptoms at the time you purchased the animal and waited five days to take it to the vet while it got worse, it may be that each party could have done things a little different. I think sellers should never try to sell animals that appear sick or stressed, but if buyers note these symptoms perhaps they should pass on the purchase.

I think that many show vendors would not offer a five day warranty on chameleons in particular because a lot depends on the husbandry skills of a buyer. Many show vendors don't offer warranties and instead address each case according to circumstances.

I would like to see the communication screen shots, if they did in fact promise to get back with you with a resolution and have not done so that is worrisome.

I waited 5 days because that was when I could get in. I made the appt on the following Monday. At the time the animal was in decent shape. I called again Wednesday to see if I could get in earlier (Thursday) but could only get my Friday appt moved a little earlier to the AM.

Attached are the first messages with an employee at the store. I called them directly and they said would call back. They had their employee call me and this is him.
 

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Here are the ones from Martin (owner).
 

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You seem to fairly knowledgeable in your choices. I dont understand why you even purchased it . Especially knowing it was imported and had visual concerns

. I think you may have a problem credit card wise as well. Where is the body of the chameleon ? Once they contact the seller that a chargeback has been instituted, unless i am mistaken, your filing a claim and you still have the animal in question. Card companies are very reluctant to accept photos. Maybe the vets report can make a difference, but in many cases relating to onsight purchases, there is always a risk. Good luck
 
You seem to fairly knowledgeable in your choices. I dont understand why you even purchased it . Especially knowing it was imported and had visual concerns

. I think you may have a problem credit card wise as well. Where is the body of the chameleon ? Once they contact the seller that a chargeback has been instituted, unless i am mistaken, your filing a claim and you still have the animal in question. Card companies are very reluctant to accept photos. Maybe the vets report can make a difference, but in many cases relating to onsight purchases, there is always a risk. Good luck

Thanks.

Yeah it was a import I have been looking to get for a while so I asked question after question and took the chance I wasn't being lied to...I was wrong. O well. Should have brought the fecal test kit and microscope, lol.

This is being filed under the goods were delivered but were faulty or not as described.
We still have the specimen so it won't matter if the merchant requests it back in an attempt to pull a fast one.
 
pull a fast one.

I just don't feel like we are at the 'fast one' stage yet.

Seller

Sold an import with parasites, buyer alleges that seller cited a clean test
They were willing to talk to you
They dropped the ball in communicating

Buyer
Bought know critter was an import and did not look well
Says critter progressively ill and looked worse but vet care was delayed for 5 days

It seems to me that if the buyer has said he is willing to take a partial refund, what we need is an offer from the seller. Since it is now here, I think it best that buyer notify seller and both parties can try to come to terms here in the BOI.
 
I have already opened a case with my card processor and provided all documentation, i.e. lab results, receipt, images of booth depicting the lack of a refund/return policy, etc.

I informed the seller numerous times I would take a partial refund if we were able to come to an agreement between us. But to to the lack of communication and leading me on for almost two weeks (between all personnel I was in contact with, three in total) I am past that point. I only have a certain amount of time to file a charge back claim under FL statutes and based on how it was going it seemed like it was being delayed purposefully.
 
Sorry to hear yet another helpless import has died due to greed. As a long, long time multiple cham owner and breeder, I find both the seller and buyer not worthy of doing business with. The OP SAW the poor import had physical problems, yet made the purchase. The seller was just looking to dump a poor imported dying animal.

Island Lizards, I have been to both your FB and internet site. You have been in business "since 2018". Where is YOUR refund/return policy?

Hope you get your money back, but hope you will educate yourself on proper reptile care and husbandry before you call yourself a "company". And no, I have never heard of Hooked On Fish & Corals.
 
The OP took the animal to the vet and is providing the paperwork... that's more than a lot of posters provide. I hope things work out for you OP, sorry you're going through it but I suppose we all learn lessons from these kind of situations, deserved or otherwise.
 
images of booth depicting the lack of a refund/return policy
In most cases, sellers are not required to have such a policy.
I have heard that in general in the reptile show trade critters at shows do not come with specific health warranties, customers are expected to inspect prior to purchase.
(That does NOT mean it is ethical to sell sick critters, nor does it in any way decrease the value of threads like these identifying problems with a purchase).

Here, from Florida's Uniform Commercial Code:

(b) When the buyer before entering into the contract has examined the goods or the sample or model as fully as he or she desired or has refused to examine the goods, there is no implied warranty with regard to defects which an examination ought in the circumstances to have revealed to him or her; and
(c) An implied warranty can also be excluded or modified by a course of dealing or course of performance or usage of trade.
 
Sorry to hear yet another helpless import has died due to greed. As a long, long time multiple cham owner and breeder, I find both the seller and buyer not worthy of doing business with. The OP SAW the poor import had physical problems, yet made the purchase. The seller was just looking to dump a poor imported dying animal.

Island Lizards, I have been to both your FB and internet site. You have been in business "since 2018". Where is YOUR refund/return policy?

Hope you get your money back, but hope you will educate yourself on proper reptile care and husbandry before you call yourself a "company". And no, I have never heard of Hooked On Fish & Corals.

1. We don't sell online yet so we provide our return policy in person printed to every customer with the applicable care sheets. No online presence until last year when we still and only do local in person transactions.
2. How can you makes assumptions on my knowledge of reptile care and husbandry? Have you seen our care regime? The animal had slightly sunken eyes at time of purchase, nothing else. Now don't go saying that during your time as a long time owner/breeder you have never had a cham with sunken eyes which as you know is likely the cause of dehydration. Dehydration and stress as you may have seen if you read the OP is common at expos because unfortunately that is the way it works with the travel and setup during the weekend for the animals. It's good to know that you only care about your personal $ and want to buy a animal that is in 100% health and care not about any that you may and most likely could nurse back to health yet easily can pass judgement upon others.
3. We have a common agreement as well in that you are the exact person we would refuse service too.
 
In most cases, sellers are not required to have such a policy.
I have heard that in general in the reptile show trade critters at shows do not come with specific health warranties, customers are expected to inspect prior to purchase.
(That does NOT mean it is ethical to sell sick critters, nor does it in any way decrease the value of threads like these identifying problems with a purchase).

Here, from Florida's Uniform Commercial Code:

(b) When the buyer before entering into the contract has examined the goods or the sample or model as fully as he or she desired or has refused to examine the goods, there is no implied warranty with regard to defects which an examination ought in the circumstances to have revealed to him or her; and
(c) An implied warranty can also be excluded or modified by a course of dealing or course of performance or usage of trade.

Very familiar with the USG. The business that brings home the bacon deals with it daily, lol.

What is not explicitly mentioned is goods or services not as described which is the basis of our claim and is (with proper documentation) an easily defendable case.
 
The OP took the animal to the vet and is providing the paperwork... that's more than a lot of posters provide. I hope things work out for you OP, sorry you're going through it but I suppose we all learn lessons from these kind of situations, deserved or otherwise.

Thanks. I guess I should stop giving people the benefit of doubt they are out and will do the right thing.
 
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