| Author | Subject: Beware! |
| Jordan Russell | Posted At 21:20:33 02/10/2001
UNBELIEVEABLE! This first pic is the pic I was shown when I bought the snake. I later found out that this pic was taken by the person whom he bought it from. In a matterof 2-3 weeks this is what happened to the snake while this person owned the snake! The tail was chewed raw it looks like probably by a rat. Hard to tell from that pic but he is very underweight and is highly dehydrated also his scales are all lifted up from mites! His belly is totally infected and has what looks to be "belly rot". He was shipped in a cricket box! Ok now I am not here to bag on the person, I am not even going to mention his name. I am here because this reminded me of something that was discussed a few months ago , that maybe people should have to have permits to own any animal�.. after this incident maybe it isn�t such a bad idea. All in all the snake came in: mites belly rot tail chewed by rat scarred neck respiratory infection shipped in unsuitable conditions� this kind of stuff makes me sick and I just want you all to be careful. Best of Luck, Jordan Russell ( I also posted this on the boa forum, it's sad to see that people are so cruel.) |
| Warren |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 02:09:10 02/11/2001 Hi Mr. Russell, Why not give the name of this person? It might eventually help other animals from suffering the same fate and keep some people from being deeply disappointed. |
| JKellar |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 03:27:08 02/11/2001 Without a doubt, the person who owned that snake probably has no business owning herps. That snake is definetly mistreated. My only beef is why are people so quick to scream "permits". That would bring about more problems than anything else, and would eventually lead to the near impossibilty of being able to own herps. I personally don't own any large snakes and I stopped keeping venemous herps about four years ago, of my own accord, which is the way it should be here in the U.S. (assuming proper care etc.). I personally think that a permit system would be nothing more than another way for numerous Govt. entities to take even more of my hard earned cash, and be nothing but, a government red tape fiasco, and more importantly, even with a permit system you would still have snakes like the above. Besides, you could probably have people that keep their herps in the condition of that Boa, brought up on animal cruelty charges under laws that already exist, and if not let's toughen up the abuse laws, not enact a permit system that would be nothing but trouble. Just my opinion John |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 03:31:03 02/11/2001 I cut and pasted this from my post on the boa forum. I agree that a permit based system isn't a good idea but after seeing stuff like that it got my blood flowing. I would agree 100% that a permit system is a bad idea.. I didn't post the name of the person because I wanted to give him a chance to see what sort of elaborate explanation he could come up with. I emailed him 2 times which he says he never got ( I saved drafts ) all in all he would take no responsibility and was a complete jerk about the whole thing now knowing this I have no problem stating who it was. Jerry Tubbs. [email protected] Jordan |
| Ken Harbart |
What kills me.. (Currently 1 replies)
Posted At 10:31:31 02/11/2001 Besides the obvious neglect, one thing that really bothers me is that I've gone to bat for Jerry on several ocassions, even going so far as to put my personal and professional reputations on the line for him. I view the deplorable condition of this snake, along with the apparent refusal to make ammends, as a proverbial slap in the face to those of us who've stuck our necks out to help him. This whole fiasco has left me shaking my head in disbelief. It'll be a cold day in hell before I go out of my way to help someone like that again, regardless if they can prove that they are beyond reproach or not. It goes without saying that if there are any future raffles, I will NOT be associating myself with them. In light of this, I regret associating myself with the first one. |
| jerry tubbs |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:40:39 02/11/2001 as far as excuse i told you the details about it when i got......... it as far as the 2 emails they never came i mean check the stautus to see if they were ever opened they was not because i never got them......... as far as drafts i can keep drafts too but it doesnt mean it went to the receiver ............ and as far as resposibility i told you i would take the snake back or do what i needed to do to get it straight with you so no i wasnt being a jerk ........jordan you was the one being a jerk bringing my family into saying stuff about them callling me names i mean business is business but you went personal ........ as far as ruining me thats not gonna happen and its not like every one out there has ever had a bad deal or a bad snake so you can have whoever you need contact me and that will be fine theres 2 sides to every story not just yours and not just mine |
| Chrysta |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:55:41 02/11/2001 I don't know who's a fault here. This deal obviously went very wrong and it's not my place to judge. However I would be interested in "how" this beautiful snake got into the condition it was in. Chrysta :( |
| Jeff Houston |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:15:29 02/11/2001 Mr. Tubbs I disagree that everyone has bad deals. This snake is just gross, that is not a "bad deal". That is neglect. I have sold many reptiles and have NEVER had a bad deal. (on my end) I have never had anything but happy buyers. I have healthy animals and I pack them well, where is the bad deal? I ship when I say I do, and treat people with respect. If you are honest I can't see how things can go this wrong. I know Jordan and he is a great guy, I even invited him to see my animals. I can't see him making this up, which leaves you as the guilty party. Just my 2 cents. -Jeff Houston |
| Jason...Just Dum's |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:47:38 02/11/2001 I knew something was wrong with him. For those of you reading this all my experiances with Jerry are through a chat room that someone created for all of us on the boa forum. Many of us in the chat are regulars and have become freinds. Jerry would come in the chat under his regular name and seemed like a decent guy that we all liked. Many times in this chat room someone under the name "null" would pop up. "null" was very abussive and rude, cursed alot and would always pick on one of the regulars(supposedly this regular was in on the so called joke, and knew it was jerry)many of us were just offended by the vulgarity, Also on one occasion "null" proceded to talk crap about jerry(keep in mind "null" was jerry) me and Jordan were in the room and out of defense of Jerry(who at the time we thought was a good guy) defended Jerry, we kicked "null out several times and one time when "null" came back in the room he started saying "all of you regulars in this chat are a bunch of predjudice muthaf$$kers" i dunno about you but that to me was a direct insults at that time though Jordan banned "null" for 24hours from the chat, anyway a few days later one of the regulars in the chat decided to checks IP adresses when null was in and found it to be Jerry tubs because he was in the room under his name and the "null" at the same time, at this time he started claiming that many other people within the chat were in on the so called joke and to those of us that wernt that he was sorry, my question is was he sorry for what he said or that he got caught??? he also told those of us that didnt know it was a joke that if we couldnt except his apoligy that its was our problems and not his, a joke is a joke but this greatly bothered me because the guy is asking for everyones help and what not then he turns around and plays games with the people helping and pulling for him, and also insults us under a fake name, then after this on several occasins in the chat he starts talking about getting new animals and starts talking about having a whole bunch of animals for sale, where are these coming from, I thought he was broke and needed help, I for one will never participate in another of his raffles, I offerd both my web sites to help him and he play games with me like that, so I dunno |
| Sal Thomas |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:57:46 02/11/2001 Tubbs, You are a blight to the hobby, man....to try and use the lame ass excuse that "everybody's done it" tells us more about your character than I think you may have intended.....and to say "You took it personal, man!"....getting ripped off is as personal as it gets, dude....and the underlying theme that you may have been using funds raised to help your son, to buy/trade/sell reptiles is revolting....and not once have you shown any remorse for the snake!!!....which , coupled with your "Oh,well" attitude should be enough reason for any sensible herper never to deal with you again, under any circumstances....you and your mouth have done more to "ruin" you than Jordan ever could....smell that, Tubbs?....that's the smell of bridges being burned....as my kids would say, "Smooth move, Ex-Lax!" Sal Thomas |
| Ken Harbart |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:26:54 02/11/2001 I'm going to go out on a limb here and retract/revise my previous statement. I was quick to condemn Jerry based on the above pictures. Perhaps I should have cooled off first, as I said several things in haste that I should not have. This is a situation where Jerry and Jordan, both men I have taken into my confidence, need to work out an amiable solution. I'm hoping that they have both cooled off and are now discussing the matter. While Jerry was obviously not right in shipping the snake, let me point out two things in his defense. The first consideration is the relative condition of the snake. We are all in agreement that it is in bad shape. I am of the opinion that it would take longer than 2-3 weeks for it to degenerate from the condition whown in the first photo to that of the subsequent photos. The second consideration is that sometimes emails are lost in cyberspace. This past August/September, I missed three emails in a row from Jason (Just Dums). To this day, I still receive some emails 3-4 days after they've been sent. Now, I am by no means justifying selling/shipping a snake in poor condition- that is between Jerry and Jordan. With any luck, they can both work out an amiable solution. |
| jerry utbbs |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:07:12 02/11/2001 ok i admitted to that null name but i never called any body a mf or sob or bast___ there is other people that has come in there under that name not only me i appoligized i cant take it back i dont know what else to do but once again say i was sorry for that but it was just for fun when i was really depressed and stressed out but now i see that some of you didnt see it that way and most of you knew it was me and went along with it but sorry to have lost your confidence as far as it being personal i understand being ripped off is personal but i wasnt trying to rip him off or run from him i was talking about him talking about my son calling him a dieing kid i dont need to hear that i heard that enough and him saying i dont even have a family and it was a scam well all i can say to that is there is some people that have checked it out and found it to be true because it is as far as the emails i never got them i emailed him 3 times cause i thought he wasnt responding or he wasnt getting them but i never got his replies and i keep getting kicked out of chat before i can answr all the questions but thats why im trying to do it here i take full responsibility for what happens but this is a bad deal between jordan and me and its been blown out of proportion with bringing the raffle up and my boy well if ya dont want to participate in the raffle that fine but please dont call my son a dieing kidd and please dont tell me i dont have a family and please dont tell me that my son would be better off dead cause he has a basterd for a father (and you know who you are by sending me these emails ) so please leave my family out of this its between jordan and me and thats it and as far as jordan i wanted to work something out with you to resolve it but you kept ripping my head off and things blew up last night although i would like to come to a conclusion without having to yell and cuss about it thanks for listening everyone jerry tubbs |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:28:54 02/11/2001 Hello, Yes I did rip your head off I was in awe over the fact that you could A) send an animal out in those conditions and B) let an animal get into those conditions) C) think I would be stupid enough not to notice. Jerry there were 3 othere people in the chat room last night that saw the whole thing you would not answer one question straight every question was answered with "well it was worse than that when I got it". Granted I didn't know Jerry was selling me the snake he had reffered to before but this is what he had said about this snake" I got it off of**** and it has a scar on its neck the least thing he could have done was tell me, I hate it when people lie to you" Hmm... I don't remember being told about belly rot, Tail chewed, underweight, mites and a respiratory infection I always love bringing stuff like that into my collection. As far as you offering to take the snake back that's a joke if you let it get this far I know you won't treat it you will just sell it to some other shmuck like you did to me. Like I said earlier I will call a vet on monday get you an expense report subtract that from the total value of the animal and mail you a check. As far as what you did in the chat room I don't care maybe you were bored and wanted to have fun.. honestly it doesn't matter to me if it had I wouldn't have done the deal. As far as you saying I brought your kid into this, You wouldn't answer ONE question I was asking or Lori or skip or anyone, I said "well this ruins all credibility you HAD, I know alot of people are thinking this, but do you really even have a kid?" granted it could have been saved from being said . I have the whole conversation logged if you want to see it. The point at hand is why did you feel you had the right to send out a snake in those conditions, you could have gotten it with 10 times worse belly Rot and Ticks but we both know you didn't. You told me that the snake was perfect well it is far from it. I think anyone who knows Bill Cagle knows that he does broker but he would NEVER send a snake out looking like that. NEVER! I just refuse to believe you when you say it was worse I have gotten snakes from him and seen pics of his place talked to him countless times he just WOULDN'T. Well I just had a clutch of Irian Jayas drop that I need to go finish taking care of, if you want to add 20+ more posts to this go right ahead but I have said all of the facts and all I need to say unless a valid point gets brought up I am done with this as it seems you would prefer to drag this on. Oh one last thing, I did question you having a family, as far as you saying the whole bastard thing you are making that up. If you want the logs I can cut and paste them here but that is totally untrue and anyone who was there last night would agree! later, Jordan |
| jerry |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:50:20 02/11/2001 i have 3 things to say then ill let it go like you say you are 1 im the one who received the snake so i know how it was and that why he was called back up 2 i didnt let the snake get in that shape you know snakes and so does everyone else in here and you know it would take longer than a couple weeks to let the snake go from the first photo to the other photos 3 your words about my boy was dieing son and i bet you dont even have a family that was never an issue before this deal so this deal should have pertained to just that and not my son or my family oh one other thing i didnt say those emails about bastard came from you but they did came from somebody you know and yes you did call me a sob and a mf but like i said this is the last post ill make unless a point hasto be made |
| john |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:08:11 02/11/2001 THE BOA SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN SOLD OR MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE SHIPPED IT IN A PLASTIC BAG |
| ERIC |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:57:39 02/11/2001 Jerry, I'm sorry, but I don't get you. A couple of months ago you posted on rec.herps or whatever about your son. I believed you, didn't send any money, but believed you!! Yesterday, you send me an e-mail wanting to buy snakes. What's up with that?? In my opinion, your slapping everyone that "bought" into you right in the face. Just goes to show...... The thing that really PI$$E$ me off about the whole thing??? There are MANY ppl "the same as" me that are truly honest ppl but because of your "shananigans" (and "everybody" else posted here) "WE" have a hard time!!! I have only been into reptiles for 11 yrs, but I WISH that I could go back 7-11 years, that was a time when "WE" (Herpers) were SOLID!! There was no Internet to hid behind, per se!! ERIC |
| jerry t ubbs |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 00:15:10 02/12/2001 you have been in the biz long enough to know that people buy sell and trade and are at sometimes owed snakes the reason i asked you for bp"s is because a person that owes me was gonna sell some stuff to get me some ball pythons that i could sell or raffle off the money wouldnt be coming from me but them this is not a long explanation but its a fact and its the truth thats all i can say thanks jerry |
| Joey |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 00:35:35 02/12/2001 THIS IS FOR EVERYONE TO READ!!!! i can't say anything about the snake that was sold, but i do live close to jerry and in the past i have been to his home and meet his family, i do in fact know he does have a son that that has medical problems. i also know jerry's job is outdoors and he can only work during the summer and when the weather pemites, so i'm sure he was in need of money to help out, so before anyone attacks him for asking for help, i just like to say i'm sure it was needed |
| Patrick Alexander |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 01:46:38 02/12/2001 I'll second what Joey said, but add that it's irrelevant to the actual topic at hand... Ken's reasons for introducing the topic of the raffle seem evident and reasonable enough to me, but this introduction, unfortunately, seems to have led the discussion far afield... the relevant facts seem to me to be these: The boa that Jordan received is obviously in very bad condition. Jerry has given no explanation for the condition of the boa, and hasn't disagreed with the claim that the boa was severely misrepresented, or that the first picture shown in this thread was sent to Jordan as a representative picture of the snake. Jerry has, even, stated outright on kingsnake.com (I'll point to the message if you like) that he didn't tell Jordan about all of the problems with the snake. So... I guess all I want to say is that it's silly to get distracted by the raffle and chat room nonsense, and that I, for one, would be very interested in hearing an explanation, if one exists, for the condition of the boa... Patrick Alexander |
| Jason...Just Dum's |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 08:26:57 02/12/2001 ok you are right about the chat stuff being silly, to me its just shown his charecter though and thats why i posted it, but anyway your right the most important part here is between Jerry and Jordan and of course the health of the animal, that should be first on everyones priority list so on that note my last ? on this topic is, according to your post on kingsnake Jerry you had the animal for 3wks in this shape "well actually i had the snake from jan 17th to feb 9 th so that how long i had it so it was more like 3 weeks but that snake could still not go that far down hill" if you had it in that shape for that long WHY did you never take it to a vet????????? it doesnt take an experianced person to see in those photos that it is in need of attention I got so cuaght up in everything I over looked that fact to and last night in conversation someone brought it up, "why is everyone so concerned with everything else when its the animal health that is important??" is pretty much what i was asked, but anyway theres a few of us that would like to know why didnt it ever go to the vet????, Jason |
| BEN SIEGEL REPTILES |
A DEALERS POINT OF VIEW (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:12:12 02/12/2001 i am glad i did not get that snake!!!!!--i almost took it--tubbs e-mailed me trying to pawn that sickly snake off and never mentioned a word about its condition--he wanted to trad it for one of my ball pythons and something else that i cannot bring to memory--whatever--it was about $250, and i almost took it, but it seemed like he was begging to get rid off it, and from the picture i could not understand as it was a beautiufl redtail--now i know, and i am sorry about your trouble jordan--this guy also told me to hold the ball python he wanted and said he was sending a check which never showed--typical--everything seems to fit in nicely together--probably somebody you want to avoid---NO SNAKKE SHOULD EVERY BE SENT OUT IN THAT CONDITION--EVEN FOR FREE!!!-time to time we will have a bgrade animal at our shop, bad eye, or a bad scar--something along those lines--we usually give them away free to our regular customers!!!--but we stil ask them first 1)do they want it, 2)tell them exactly what is wrong with the animal--you would be surprised at how many people will turn down free snakes!!---anyhow--i am glad i did not receive that animal, i would have been highly upset |
| jerry tubbs |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 00:48:15 02/13/2001 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1442286&a=10820905 I HOPE YOU ALL SEE NOW THAT THIS WASNT A SCAM AND IT WAS FOR REAL (sorry for the caps) but theres where yalls money went i hope this clears up alot of your thought s just let me know thanks jerry tubbs |
| jerrytubbs |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 01:34:40 02/13/2001 hi guys this is to say that the post "this is where yalls money went" was to show yall that it was spent for the purpose the money was raised and not to show attitude im sorry if it came off that way but it is sincere and the truth and i hope you guys did not take the original post the wrong way and if you do im sorry for that i hope this will help to clear things up thanks jerry |
| Jason...Just Dum's |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:41:57 02/13/2001 look i know i was one of the first to jump all over jerry for all of this, I was wrong for getting involed period, but like Ken I wish I would have waited till i calmed down and second just wish I would have stayed out of it all together, as many others i got very emotional because I honestly felt for jerry due to his situation and when all this came out i like many ohters got alot more emotional over this then I normally would have, and i for one am SORRY!!!!!!!!!! i ever took any part in any of this, the guy screwed up, but god there comes a point when we all gotta let it go, he is trying desperatly to prove to everyone that the money went were it belongs, I for one FULLY BELIEVE it did, Matt martin didnt evan get this much publicity and he took people for thousands, jerry didnt steal from anyone just miss represnted an animal I know ill probally get slammed for saying all this here but im gonna say it anyway, imagine what he goes through everyday, i couldnt, looking at part of him(his son) in the shape his son is in, what would that do to you???????? on a daily basis lookin at all those machines and you son hooked up to them, just praying, i dont have any kids the closest thing i have is my animals ok, so thats the only thing i have to compare to what he is going through, take a look at my Imports site at the link below, I know it may not be the same as his child but its all i have to compare his situation to, when ever i get new info from Fish @ Wildlife I will spend any where from 2-4 weeks going through the info, i will have to look at those HORRIBLE photos several times a day, thats brings me down to no extent, after the last shipment of stuff i spent 4 weeks sorting through case files and everything else, I was so depressed from that, I attacked people and was very angry at the whole importation trade but now that i have calmed down and seeing things a little more clearly i relieze that i was wrong for that, whats on my site is inexcusable but there is some positive aspects to the importation trade, and at the time due to everything i was looking at i couldnt see that, i was only looking at photos and info about animals and what i saw and my love for animals made me act very out of charecter for myself, i know its no comparision to his son but im just trying to make the point how depression can make people act and think differant, if i was going through what he is i couldnt imagine how i would handle it probally not as well as he is, the guy did wrong he is not denying that but its has nothing to do with his son or the raffle and all he is trying to do is prove that he didnt miss use the money and if we are gonna crucify something crucify him and not the raffle or his son, i am not by any means trying to justify what happened between him and Jordan, that was wrong he addmitted that, but sometime we have to move past it, i am also sure from talking to him that he is very sorry about the whole deal and it is something he will never forget, i also dont think he will ever do it again, like i said i know i was one of the first to jump on him and Jerry I am VERY SORRY I ever took any part in this, so please cna we all stop because no matter what we say or do he still has his son to take care of and i for one cant imagine what he is going through trying to take care of his son then everytime he looks on here everyone crucifying him, i am sure he has gotten the point, let the firing squad begin, Jason -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| feeling kinda lousy |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:12:20 02/13/2001 i have been following this for a while,i dont work with or deal in snakes at all.i dont know any of the people involved but man when i seen those pics i even felt like sh#@ .i think we all have to remember there are more important things in life than a missunderstanding. when i first read this i was thinking go get him.after seeing the pics up top i no longer think so.jerry,god bless and all the best to your family ,hope tomorrow brings happer days |
| I agree |
Re: Beware! (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:31:01 02/14/2001 what has happened hear is a shame Jerry I prey for you and your family and I am very sorry to have seen something so minor get so out of hand |