| Author | Subject: Note to Robert Hornung re: Bob Pound/Proventamite |
| Rick Kennedy | Posted At 18:27:41 03/16/2001
Hi Robert, I hadn't read the forum for a while so I just noticed your message way down there regarding the Bob Pound/Proventamite issue. I thought I would grab your attention here in case you don't revisit that thread. My website that was in question is at www.yourtomo.com/rosyboas/ and the info in question was on the FAQ page...one of the last questions dealing briefly with mites. You mentioned that Mr. Pound says that I did mention his product on my site by name. That is both sad and humorous. The original text made specific mention of NIX and No Pest Strips only, and the new text does the same. The only thing I changed to comply with fed regulation (again, based on legal counsel)is to reiterate that such information was recommended to me by my vet and that anyone contemplating such alternative treatments should consult their vet. As I have learned, it is acceptable to say (whether on websites, forums,publications, or in personal discussion)that ones own veterinarian recommended any treatement for mites whether patented or not, as long as the statement is prefaced as such. Also, someone (don't recall if it was you Robert) recommended that I talk to an actual patent attorney. I did, I'm clear, but I still check my rear view mirror more often ;) A post also mentioned that someone should chase Mr. Pound legally for what has been happening. From the numerous emails from around the country that I have received, it sounds like many people would like to do that, and some have come very close. I would like to avoid that but am also quite close. It was suggested to me by the legal department in the university I work that Mr. Pounds actions were indeed under the realm of harassment and that they would, at the very least, seek a cease and desist order. However, in my line of work I see WAY too many bogus civil suits and am loath to join those ranks, especially over something like this.....(unless of course it continues). One last point, I really appreciated the discussion below and everyones input. Rick Kennedy |
| Robert Hornung |
Re: Note to Robert Hornung re: Bob Pound/Proventamite
Posted At 10:30:30 03/17/2001 It looks like it comes down to your word against his. I had heard similar complaints against Bob Pound and that's why I was so interested in this conflict. I had never heard of him threatening someone because of their home webpage but I seem to remeber an incident about kingsnake.com and proventamite where any posts mentioning non-federally tested mite killers would be deleted. I had heard that this was done between Bob and the kingsnake webmaster but I couldn't find any evidence to verify it. What I find odd is that their are many personal webpages that mention other products that can be used against mites but yours is the only one that I heard that was threatened. |
| Rick Kennedy |
Re: Note to Robert Hornung re: Bob Pound/Proventamite
Posted At 17:36:23 03/17/2001 I agree it does come down to word against word in cases like this, but a few things come to mind. One is that this particular situation comes down to word against a million words (I am exaggerating a bit, but there are a ton of people and organizations out there that have a lot of words vs. Pound). Another issue is that Pound leaves a paper trail that could come back to haunt him...ie. printed out emails being forwarded to, for example, hungry lawyers, traced harassing phone calls, and I would consider the potential for sworn affidavits a paper trail of sorts converted from experiences (I have found people that would be willing). Regarding other web sites with info about alternative mite treatements, I have found a few owners that have also been harassed/intimidated...interestingly their content has remained up and available. Also, a few that I tried to contact seemed unwilling to get further involved (some specifically did not leave names and requested I not use them in such dealings for fear of becomming involved in lawsuits), so obviously they had tangles in the past with Pound. You also mention Kingsnake.com. After I received escalating threats via email, several people in the herp community that I forwarded the emails to recommended I contact the webmaster there. I did, and was pretty shocked to learn that there was indeed quite a history. In fairness to Kingsnake.com, I don't feel it is appropriate to comment further on the issue other than to say Pound so far has really dodged some proverbial bullets. I learned enough to realize that in time, Pounds behavior will probably put his company and product on the line. Any number of people have ample ammo...I'm just not sure they realize it. Anyway, again thanks for the input. Very enlightening. Rick Kennedy P.S. Haven't seen a Bob Pound forum post on KS.com for a long time accept when he probably uses an alias/friends computer to plug his Proventamite!!! (note I used the word "probably" ;) |
| Tom Townsend |
Mites and "treatments"
Posted At 11:14:45 03/21/2001 After reading this, you will probably lump me into "Bob Pound's Friends" or some other pigeon hole, but here goes. Having spoken to Mr. Pound on the telephone on several occasions, and finding our conversations to be both enlightening and enjoyable, I can only assume that you have (at least) slightly misinterpreted his language when you discussed these issues with him. It is my understanding (I am *not* a lawyer) that it is ILLEGAL to use, or RECOMMEND the use of a product, IF (this is the important part, so pay attention) the use or recommendation to use the product runs CONTRARY to the instructions on the label of said product. I hope I got that nearly correct..... Now, regarding Bob Pound.... Mr. Pound has spent hundreds of thousands of his own US Dollars to develope and market a product that is completely safe to use, to rid a reptile of snake mites. His product (Provent-A-Mite) is the ONLY Federally approved product for this purpose, and if you follow the letter of the (Federal)law, therefore is the ONLY product that can be used or recommended for use in preventing or eradicating snake mites. Period. End of discussion. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but following my discussions about chemicals and their use on reptiles, Mr. Pound was more than willing to explain (Bob has *never threatened* anyone I know, but has advised them of the illegality of their recommendations) how his product works, and why it is a better product, as far as effectiveness and safety is concerned for my animals. I've heard about everyone's First Ammendment Rights on this issue for so long, and so often, that I almost laugh when I read it these days. If you posted a "Mite Treatment" FAQ that recommends using any product in contradiction to the instructions on the label, then you broke the law. I didn't write the law, and I don't necessarily agree with the law, but if I had to use such a law to recoup hundreds of thousands of my hard earned dollars, I might. First Ammendment only goes so far, and if there is a violation of Federal Law involved, your rights to "Free Speech" are trumped by EPA or FDA or Congress or whomever passed that regulation or law. Anyway, I'm putting on my flame retardent suit and waiting for the war to begin. I don't expect I'll be responding to anything else on the subject except to say: Did you know that in order for "No-Pest" strips to be effective on snake mites that the toxicity levels of the chemical have to exceed EPA approved levels, and that to achieve those levels in the cage with your snake(s) you may actually be giving a life threateningly (to the snake) high concentration of the chemical? I could go on, but I will stop now. Tom |
| Tom Chambers |
Re: Note to Robert Hornung re: Bob Pound/Proventamite
Posted At 10:27:22 03/25/2001 Tom, You make some very valid points as far as the literal interpretation of the law. (I'm not a lawyer either but I understand this logic.) IMHO, where Mr. Pound has gone wrong is to use what one could almost call "strongarm" tactics to discourage anyone from advising the use of any product other than his to treat mites. It's like whoever devolped shed-aid is gonna get PO'd at me for telling someone to just soak their herp in warm water. In the long run, Bob Pound will do more to harm his business on his own than he would have lost by just keeping his mouth shut and letting the product speak for itself. And yeah, No-Pests ARE toxic, but carefully applied, I have not had one bad experience in 20 years of herp keeping. The last mite seen in my collection died well over 4 years ago....it was a No Pest that killed 'em! Just my H.02! TC - TC Reptile |
| Raven Johnson |
I'm a bit late to this discussion....
2214.html Posted At 17:02:07 04/03/2001 but wanted to add my .02 in. I was witness to the kingsnake debacle and have since rarely posted anything on mite treatments because of the insuing b.s. from that incident. There were several acceptable, alternative remedies suggested including another product manufactured (far before Provent-a-mite) for mite control - who's name I can't recall at the moment. The thread got completely out of hand and Mr. Pound was obnoxious, IMO, to say the least. While I understand from others that Provent-a-mite is a superior product and have suggested it to a few people who inquired, I doubt I would actually purchase the product at this point because of other input I received. Raven Johnson |