| Author | Subject: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.) |
| Jordan Russell - Orange, Ca. | Posted At 18:22:48 07/25/2001
Hello Everyone- I would like to start this out by saying this is not a spiteful post nor was the intent of this post to take revenge. This is a post determined to let people know about someone in our hobby who in my opinion should NOT be in our hobby. I have literally been stressed out of my mind for the past week, sickened by the type of person I did business with. Not only was I bold face lied to I was sent animals that were A.) not what I purchased B.) WC animals - yet they were purchased as hets?? C.) completely and utterly taken advantage of. Unfortunately it seems AFTER I was completely taken advantage of numerous ( literally countless) amounts of people came out of the woodworks to warn me. Although I appreciate them taking the time to inform me of their dealings I wish I had been fortunate enough to know about these dealings BEFORE I was taken advantage of. This is what I am looking to do for some of you people. Save your HARD earned money from being swindled by a crook. I will first tell you what MY dealings were with this person followed by some of the horror stories I have been told after my dealings. I hope to see these people that told me these stories come out of the wood work to help validate these incidents. Recently (last Friday, July 13th.) I sent Mr. Steve Raymond a group of animals in an exchange as follows: 0.1 Adult Female Black Headed Python. (B grade- damaged upper lip.) @ a value of $2,750. 2.1 Cb Late �00 66% het Granite Burmese Pythons. @ a value of $300 group. 0.1 Cb �00 Green Burmese Python 100% heterozygous for Albino. Produced by Bob Clark. $150. 0.1 Cb �99 Albino Fat Tailed Gecko. Purchased from Jon Levy via Vance Planck. $600 0.1 Cb �01 Blizzard Lizard (stub tail). Purchased from Jon Levy via Vance Planck. $150 1.1 Cb �01 100% heterozygous Blizzard Leopards. Same source. $150pr. 1.2 Adult Leopards. 1.0 Hypo. 0.1 Tangerine. 0.1 High Yellow. $250 trio. 1.1 Adult Leucistic (patternless Leopards) $150pr. Total Value - $4,500.00 I was to receive as stated- 0.1 Cb �99 100% Heterozygous for Albino Ball Python, with invoice. Produced by Bob Clark. $1,500. 0.1 Cb �00 66% Heterozygous Xanthic (caramel albino) Ball Python, with invoice. Produced by C&S reptiles. $750. 1.1 Cb �00 100% Heterozygous Axanthic Ball Pythons, with documentation. Produced by Kyle James. $750pr. 10.20 Established CH baby Ball Pythons. These were allegedly from Lindy Johnson (Freedom Breeder) and were supposed to be a mix of at least half of the babies being: Striped, Black Backed or Banded. They were all guaranteed feeders & FLAWLESS. $450 group. For those of you that have already added this up he got a smoking deal! I gave him room to make money considering I was getting higher end stuff for a group of mainly lower end animals. I told him this was to encourage the trade and to give him room to do what he does MAKE MONEY brokering animals. Apparently he didn�t give me the same (or any!) mutual respect as here is what I received instead of what we agreed upon: 0.1 Cb �99 100% heterozygous Albino Ball Python. This one came with an invoice from Bob Clark. Yet god only knows if its the same animal after this experience. $1,500 0.1 Cb �00 66% het Xanthic. NO INVOICE! He informed me on the phone after he shipped that there was no invoice on her. Value = $???? I will wind up selling her as a normal I guess now. 0.2 Captive HATCH baby Ball Pythons. These are regurging on me! These are not captive bred nor are they a pair and I would seriously doubt these skinny regurging little balls are heterozygous for axanthic. The paperwork I received was hand written on an old piece of computer paper that was all torn up and looked to have been hand written as the box was packed (in a hurry). Value = $??? Worthless. 13.15 Captive hatch baby Ball Pythons. (Not 10.20) There wasn�t a single Black Back, Banded or stripe! There have been 8 that have eaten to date and I have already had 4 die on me. The rest are so skinny I honestly can�t sell them. I wasn�t able to take them to the san diego show as I had planned to originally and sell them (which was the original intent since established quality ball pythons aren�t common at shows.) Well I have 8 that may be worth $20ea. The rest will probably be dead within a few days. Above is a photo of one of the "QUALITY" ball pythons I received.. what a joke. Needless to say I was totally burned. I also sent my animals pre-paid to him which he was to do back to me. After he shipped (when he told me about the lack of paperwork on the 66% het Xanthic) he also informed me he forgot to send his wife/girlfriend with money so she sent it collect and I would have a check by the end of the week. I went to the airport to find a $122. Freight charge!!! I fed the ball pythons which later regurged (the het axanthics) they regurged one on Wednesday the other on Thursday. I left for the San Diego show on Friday. I arrived back on Sunday. I called him Sunday night to inform him of ALL of the problems I had with the shipment. He immediately became belligerent saying that if his supplier didn�t make good he wouldn�t either. I told him I didn�t do business with his supplier I did business with him. He said he wouldn�t eat the $750 on the Het Axanthics I said NEITHER would I point blank. I am giving him 1 week from the day this is posted to have a check to me for: $122.49 for shipping, $750 for the Het Axanthics. $330 for the ball pythons that don�t eat & $750 for the 66% het Xanthic (total: $1,952.49). Steve you can either send me back that value in animals or you can be sued for it, point blank I am not taking it. I think it�s completely pitiful that this hobby has come to the point where I have found myself on this forum fighting people on 3 occasions for money or receiving animals in deplorable conditions. I am sick of taking it, this hobby does not need people like this! I am not going to take it ever again. It seems 1-3 times per year I have a deal like this that makes me sick, it makes me want to give up on everything have a few animals that I like and breed them and wholesale the babies and not deal with these people. I used to wonder why you can�t reach the Jerry Marzecs etc� (ie. Retired breeders.) I know why know, they don�t want you to! They are tired of dealing with people and incidents like this. I spoke with 3 people who will remain nameless out of respect unless they choose to come on here and repeat their stories on their own. Here is one of the incidents I was told: THE PEARL BOA- Apparently there is a fellow up in Washington that produced this animal from a pair of 66% het Albino Boas. Steve was the first person to know about the animal. Within weeks of it existing the animal and a sibling were stolen from this persons facility. Within a week of it being stolen it was in Steve�s possession! When the person spoke with Mr. Raymond in regards to how in the world it entered his possession he claimed he was not at liberty to tell! The same person that repeated this to me also informed me Steve is not allowed to enter ANY reptile shows in the Washington state area as a vendor due to constant complaints of mis-represented animals. There was much more I was informed of and it is nauseating to hear the stories this man has done to people. If you have had a good dealing with Mr. Raymond, all I can say is more power to you. I am happy to hear that, but unfortunately it seems you were one of the VERY fortunate ones. If you feel the need to come here and post your dealings with him, that is your right and applaud you, yet if you attack me for being ripped off by this man (which seems to happen on here sometimes!) I will NOT take it. Thank you and best of luck to all of you. Your fellow herper- Jordan Russell Orange, Ca (714)771-5828 (please call if you have any questions or things you would like to express in this matter.) |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6302.html Posted At 19:19:58 07/25/2001 JORDAN, Iam sorry you had the aggravation, but for the future, when you enter a trade agreement, send an invoice with your merchandise stating a dollar amount. This sets a value! Otherwise when you receive your trade items and something like this happens, the shipper cannot declare that this was only a trade with " no cash value " . Otherwise he can always increase his prices to adjust to your complaint. I know Steve from prior dealings, and I would hope when you calm down, you may be able to resolve the situation. Jerry |
| Patrick Hughett - North Texas Reptiles |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6304.html Posted At 19:44:59 07/25/2001 Jordan, I don't know Steve Raymond, nor have done business with him (and now I won't for sure), but I can tell about those balls from Kyle James. I have seen this so called Axanthic in person. I pay $400 for a male het, which was the last baby from the previous year that he had...before the clutches that were supposedly going to hatch this year. Anyway, after closer examination of this het ball, it had a few scars and a lump hear the head like it had been rubbed...or a blister of some sort. The animal looked WC Definitely! Then I posted an adult female BRB that belonged to a friend of mine...I know the snake very well so I posted it and stood behind it. Anyway, he wrote me up and wanted to trade one of his new hets for the BRB. I was skeptical, but ran it by my friend and told him me and my friend both would come to his house and look at them to pick it out. Well he wrote me the day before to see if we were still coming and I told him yes, and I told him to call me when he was ready for us. He never called....I waited and waited and waited. I wrote him several times in the following days and never, ever, ever to this day got a response! I seriously doubt that the balls you were supposed to get were produced by that snake (of course that's speculation from my dealings with him), and second...if they were produced by that snake, I seriously doubt it's an Axanthic. I've seen it...It's shady! Sorry that happened to you. I wrote all of that to warn people about Kyle James. I would never do business with him. It's such a shame too...He lives close to me and he's supposed to be in this business, and I'm such good friends with his cousin Damion Wyatt (Very Good Guy)! Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6305.html Posted At 20:05:20 07/25/2001 Hello Jerry- I just wanted to let you know I did exactly that. I sent an invoice in the box with CASH values (as descripted above) in the box for my animals as well as the animals I was to recieve. As far as him & I working this out, I spoke with him 2 days ago trying to resolve this. Point blank he told me will not be eating the loss and that if I want to take it up with Kyle that is my business. (what about the other animals?) He was supposed to have a check to my by the end of the week (last week) for the $122.49 in shipping charges. Unfortunately that never arrived. Patrick- The animals I recieved completely coincide with the animals you are describing. It's truly sad that there are this many people to watch out for in the hobby. Take care, Jordan Ps: I have photos of the ball pythons I recieved and the condition they arrived in if anyone would like to see I can post them here. |
| Toby |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6306.html Posted At 20:26:08 07/25/2001 I can verify that Steve is a rip off and a discrace to the Reptile/Amphibian hobby. I live in WA St. My former boss know's Steve personaly and Steve STILL owes my (former) boss alot of money. I have heard story's from REPUTIBLE breeders in the area that Steve has ripped them AND others off MANY times. It makes me sick to think that someone like Steve is still getting away with stuff like this. As far as the Pearl Boa goes, IT IS a true story. Steve DID NOT breed it, NOR did he purchase it off anyone. He stole it, FLAT OUT stole it. So what Jordan is saying is true...and it doesn't suprise me at all that Steve is still ripping other off. He must be stopped! Toby |
| Toby Hockenbury |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6307.html Posted At 20:30:50 07/25/2001 I can verify that Steve is a rip off and a discrace to the Reptile/Amphibian hobby. I live in Wa St. My former boss know's Steve personaly and Steve STILL owes my (former) boss alot of money. I have heard story's from REPUTIBLE breeders in the area that Steve has ripped them AND others off MANY times. It makes me sick to think that someone like Steve is still getting away with stuff like this. As far as the Pearl Boa goes, IT IS a true story. Steve DID NOT breed it, NOR did he purchase it off anyone. He stole it, FLAT OUT stole it. So what Jordan is saying is true...and it doesn't suprise me at all that Steve is still ripping other off. He must be stopped! Toby |
| steve barringer |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6317.html Posted At 22:29:14 07/25/2001 thanks jordan, i was gonna work a deal with him on some chondros, but no longer. saved my hide. thanks, steve |
| Kyle James |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6319.html Posted At 22:37:58 07/25/2001 I would just like to give me 2 cents about what all is going on. I talked with Jordan Russell and we worked things out. He is getting directly from me some of my unproven hets from my axanthic ball python. As for Steve Raymond he has never ripped me off and to my knowledge is a good guy. I cannot verify for the other accounts, only in mine. He has always been honest with me 100%. Jordan I am sorry to hear about all of that stuff. You are a honest guy also. As for Patrick Hughett, you need to tell all the truth. He bought a male unproven het from my axanthic ball, saw the axanthic in person and bought the male. He bought the male because the axanthic is awesome. Jordan Russell can verify that from the pic I sent him and is more than happy to post the pic if he likes. I did a deal with Patrick for a female brazilian rainbow boa and we confirmed the deal. Then (MY FAULT) I did not ever get back with him on it. Yes that was my fault since I left him hanging on a already spoken for deal. BUT what he does not tell you is that he killed the first male het when he was shippin it, it did not die because I sold him a bad animal. NOT MY FAULT!! I was willing to trade for the brazilian female because he had already spent money with me and is friends with my cousin. Just because I did not get back with you on the deal we had is no reason to get on here and lie to try and make somebody look bad. If I held a grudge against you, I would not make up stuff to make you look bad. This deal was between Steve Raymond and Jordan Russell (not me)but I do not like to see my name get posted over something I did not do so I will take care of it the best I can to try and make things work out for you Jordan. Thanks, Kyle James |
| Mike Stanton |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6325.html Posted At 00:02:06 07/26/2001 Jordan, It sounds like you have been had. I really do feel for you. But in my personal opinion, there is so many imported ball pythons and boas showing up that it is hard to tell. Without proper verification I would personaly buy from reputable people. Now this is not to say someone trying to enjoy this hobby can't be trusted. But unless they can prove that there is a good chance that the poss het I am buying will turn out !! I would find it very hard to spend in excess of $300 on a Poss/Het anything unless it was from a proven line or had excellent refrences. That is why hard work is supposed to pay off end the end RIGHT ? Like I said " This is in my personal opinion ", I would get what money and herps back that I could. I also know that I would feel better if I thought that I actually had a chance of breeding a Poss/Het Xanthic or Axanthic from an unknown breeder to a 100% Het Xanthic or Axanthic that I purchased from a reputable breeder. To know that I did not waist my time OR MONEY . I hate to see things like this happen to a good and honest person. I also thank you very much for warning all of us about any bad dealings, weather it be from someone you purchased or traded from or the person they dealt with. Because sometimes they might have beed screwed by the person they dealt with and it just passed onto you unknowingly. Because if more than one person warns you about another individual ( weather it be true or not ), I would be skeptical. You said that the balls were regurging and looked W.C.,well thay probably were. I will tell you that a few of my customers have purchased or traded with someone mentioned here and have had the same problems you mentioned. But they would just rather learn from there mistake than cause conflict. Stick to your guns on this one and get all of your MONEY or HERPS back no matter what the cost . Again " This is my personal opinion " and no finger of blame is being pointed. Mike |
| Patrick Hughett - North Texas Reptiles |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6361.html Posted At 12:48:16 07/26/2001 Kyle, First of all...who said anything about the animal dying? I didn't! The animal did die when I shipped it out. It was my fault...I took the loss...I moved on. All other parties were happy in the end. That has NOTHING to do with the condition of the animal while I had it! PERIOD! I never said the animal died because it was in poor health. All I said is that the animal looked WC after closer examination. I am not attacking you Kyle. I am merely stating the facts of the situation. I was attacking your BUSINESS ETHICS and the CONDITION OF YOUR ANIMAL. You can attack me personally all you want to. I have not done any bad deals, nor misrepresented any of my animals, except with Jordan that I plainly posted in an earlier post to clear things up and admit my fault. Jordan - I see that Kyle posted that you guys made the deal right. That is great, but you stated that the two balls that you got that were from Kyle looked as I described. You are a very trusting individual for redoing that deal. Patrick North Texas Reptiles |
| Kyle James |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6375.html Posted At 16:37:45 07/26/2001 Yes Jordan is very understanding and so am I. In a situation like this it is really up to Steve to make it better since the animals came from Steve. I talked with Jordan and I myself am willing totake the animals back and replace them myself with no middle man involved. Simple as that. If the two females I get back are sick and die, fine. I will send him good animals like I always do. Those girls where in good shape when they left here, otherwise Steve should have sent them back to me instead of Jordan. After animals leave my hands, what happens to them is not up to me. I will not sale/trade animals that are not eating, not ingood shape, or what they are said to be. PERIOD!!!!!!! I am doing this because I have never had my name on a bad list and I do not want it there. I have sold a lot of reptiles over the past few years and have never had a complaint until now. AND it was not even my trade!!!! BUT I want a good name and I am willing to sacrifice a couple more of my animals to make Jordan and myself both pleased. I just hope this all works out for Jordan in the end. Like I stated before, Steve seems to me to be an honest guy and I am sure he will do what he can to take care of his part. Thanks, Kyle James |
| Kyle James |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6377.html Posted At 16:41:57 07/26/2001 One more thing for Patrick, just to get things straight, if the animal you got from me was in bad health why did you resale or trade it to somebody else. Then when it died during shipping you wanted another one. If it was me and I got an animal in sick health, I would judt get mt money back. Not sale or trade it and then try and get another one from the same person. Something doesn't ad up here. Kyle |
| Patrick Hughett |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6380.html Posted At 17:47:28 07/26/2001 Here's the whole story. Well...I will not post the whole story because some of it is hearsay that didn't come from me. I wouldn't do that to you, but it is still in the back of my mind. Anyway, I got the animal and I trust Damion not to do me wrong. I saw that father and it was not proven. I took a chance. When I get something from Damion, I don't question it. I took it, put it in a cage, and then he left and I went to sleep....something like that anyway. After having it and looking at it, I noticed little things. I never, ever said the animal was in bad health. Please show me where if I did. It was the outward condition of it. It had scars. I even called Damion to let him know. He assured me he didn't know anything about it and I believe him. That was when I still had it. It also had a lump of some kind that I had to pick off with my nail from near the head. So I thought, giving you the benefit of the doubt, that maybe the animal could have just grown a lump and the scars could have come from cage rubbing or something. Then you e-mailed me wanting to trade for the BRB. I called my friend and told him. I told him it was not a proven Axanthic, but supposedly Tracy Barker had seen this snake first hand and said it was. Anyway, the babies of an unproven Axanthic are not hets...They are possible hets, but I let that slide. I know I would feel really stupid if I sold something as 100% hets and they didn't produce for that person. I would hate to have to pay all that money back too to save my ass, but that's not the point. Anyway...on the BRB. I told my friend that I wouldn't let him do the deal without physically going to your house and seeing the clutch and the daddy again so he and I could see first hand before he did the deal. When you didn't call me I assumed you didn't want us to come to your house. I have had 2 sub-par dealings with you and I wouldn't recommend you to anyone myself....maybe Jordan would...I don't know. I don't think I posted anything wrong and nothing I said was a lie or an exageration. It was just facts. I could have put things I heard about you, which I won't because that would be wrong as I really don't know. But it came from a reliable source...and it wasn't good. There is no grudge here...just two different bad dealings on two different occasions. The second dealing was giving you a chance to redeam yourself by letting me come to see for myself, and you didn't. The point here is that it doesn't matter one bit what you think you are at this point...whether you think you're right in the matter, whether the ball was in deed an offspring of that unproven axanthic (which I don't think so), whether you just got so busy that you couldn't have me over at your house, etc. The point here is how you are perceived by others. At least by me, and this is not fact, but merely speculation, you are perceived as: -Someone who sold me an import ball. -Someone who didn't want me to come to your house because you were scared of something I might have seen. -Someone that wass avoiding me by not getting back to me after numerous e-mails. -Someone that is trying to scam people of money selling these balls as 100% het Axanthic, when they are not...That is FACT by the way...They are not 100% hets! You have not proved it! -Someone who would offer me a "het" for only $200 because you konw it's not a het and just wanted some cash. $200??? If you knew it was a het, you sure as heck wouldn't sell it that cheap. Now...those things that I listed are what I perceive you as. The following is not what I perceive, but the facts. The facts are: -The animal had scars. -The animal had a lump that had to be picked off. -The animal struck at me repeatedly...not common with CB animals after several weeks to months of handling. -The animal didn't look anything like the daddy...color, pattern, the way the scales looked (i.e. - smooth verses rough, shiny verses dull, etc.) -I didn't see the rest of the clutch to tell and I took Damion's word (which I'm not blaming him at all...He was just a middle man). -I know you deal with a lot of the imported ball as well. These are facts!...not accusations...not speculation...NOT a grudge! Since you were Damion's cousin, I wanted to believe you, but now I don't. To answer your question about why did I do it again...I like to try to find good in people and, like I said, I wanted to believe you because your cousin is a good friend and a good guy...but now I don't believe you. p.s. - You say, "I am doing this because I have never had my name on a bad list and I do not want it there." Well...nobody has a bad name until it is brought out in the open. Also, nobody wants their name on a bad list. It just happens. I have brought my dealings out in the open...partly because of what I have heard about you (which I will not mention), and partly because of the facts that happened to me. I am not budging on my post...That is what I believe. If others want to do business with you, that's their perogative. I will not. I don't trust you myself, and if I can save someone from wasting their money as I have, I will do it. It's hard, like Jordan said, to throw away hard earned money to get burned. Example: Me paying $400 for a ball I could have gotten for $5 to $6 in my opinion. Now, I have spoken everything. If you wish to bash me, go ahead...It would only be a personal attack, because you know nothing of my business ethics, and I have had not one (except Jordan) complaint. If you wish to keep going, I will not respond. I have spoken what I feel, as well as what I've experienced, and do not wish to take any of it back. Sincerely, Patrick North Texas Reptiles |
| Kyle James |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6385.html Posted At 19:00:42 07/26/2001 PATRICK I have nothing to bash you about and I honestly beleive you have nothing to bash me about. This was a deal between between Steve Raymond and Jordan Russell, not you and me. If you did not like the snake in the first place you shouldn't have bought it. Bottom line. It was brought to your house along with the adult male imported axanthic. You saw both of them and bought the baby. Sorry if anything went wrong after you bought it. It has been over a year since you bought it and about 3 or 4 months since you tried to get another and all I ever heard was the first one died during shipping when you shipped it out. I am leaving this along, it is over and done. If you want to keep playing the childish lie games then go ahead by yourself. Thanks, Kyle |
| Rick Ollie |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6393.html Posted At 20:28:02 07/26/2001 Let me get this straight. Patrick, did you see this ball python before you paid for it? I can understand someone getting upset about being shipped an animal that wasnt represented correctly.But I have a problem with someone that sees an animal for them selves, has time to inspect it, and then pisses and moans later about the condition of it. If you are upset at anyone, be upset at yourself. You keep speaking of things you've "heard" about Kyle. I have "heard" plenty about you and the condition you keep your animals in too. Maybe what you "hear" shouldnt even be mentioned. Kyle, I respect you greatly for stepping in and helping Jordan out with a deal that didnt concern you at all. |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6396.html Posted At 20:47:29 07/26/2001 Hello Everyone- I would like to say Kyle definately scored points with me for stepping in and being a man about this, especially since I didn't even deal with him! This shows character (to me at least.) He didn't have to do anything as it's very likely I didn't recieve the animals from Steve that he sent to Steve. As far as Patrick & Kyle, take some advice. I have been in "spitting" matches like what you two are involved in right now. The best thing to do is walk away or take care of it via email. A similar type of dispute between Dan Atkinson & myself. It went past the actual issues and was just an arguement that no one needs to watch. It makes BOTH parties look bad. That is just my $0.02 though. Btw while we are talking about Dan I have yet to recieve a full refund (it's been what, 10 months now?). Thanks, Jordan |
| Brian Conley |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6404.html Posted At 22:53:34 07/26/2001 Yeah, still waiting on my money from Dan also. But, on the bright side, an investigator has been in contact w/ me so at least the FBI followed up on my complaint. Brian |
| Jason Thurber |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6406.html Posted At 23:08:50 07/26/2001 Here is my experience with Kyle James. I purchased an albino, het for granite burmese python from him back in, I beleive, '99. He said that he had gotten it in a pair from Bob Clark. Bob Clark confirmed. He said that he had killed the female with a heat lamp on accident and no longer needed the male. He said it was healthy and he wanted 300.00 for it.It was an outstanding price for the animal at the time, but there were consequences. My girlfriend actually picked the animal up(had not seen prior to this) and when she got it home, it was determined that it was the worst mite infestation that I had ever seen. So much so, that the animal was kept in the garage at my mothers house until it was finished being treated for fear of infecting my house(let alone snake). Although Kyle seamed like a real personable guy, the animal he sold me was miserable. In the past, I had to inspect a snake rather closely to determine whether or not it had mites, but you could actually see them crawling all over the animal and feel them crawling on your hand. Big old Texas mites, I guess. It was gross and there was no way it went unnoticed by him. |
| Patrick Hughett - North Texas Reptiles |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6407.html Posted At 23:45:15 07/26/2001 Rick Ollie, You are absolutely right. The first offense, shame on him...The second, shame on ME. I mean...the nerve of me...How could I EVER give someone a second chance to redeem themselves. I'm glad your opened my eyes...I will never give someone the benefit of the doubt again. I thank you very much! As for my animals. You are welcome to see all of them on my website. If you see any that look unhealthy, abused, malnourished, dehydrated, tick/mite infested, scarred, etc., please let me know. I don't know what you have heard about my animals, but I keep them very well. The only people that have ever seen my collection are friends...or friends that I do business with. Whatever you have heard about my animals and how I keep them must have been a myth...or hearsay. Sincerely, Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| Karen Schwind |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6409.html Posted At 00:48:18 07/27/2001 Jordon, You know that you had a 48 hour guarantee on the animals that you had received. You sent us a screwed up blackheaded python in trade (which still hasn't eaten for us). Steve made TWO FOLLOW UP CALLS within a week after you receieved your shipment. He wanted to make sure you were satisfied with your order and he wanted to voice his concern about the blackhead that you sent him, but of course, you didn't return his calls. Those snakes that you received were sent WITH PAPERS. Steve is a great guy and I know that he goes more out of his way in this business than most people would to satisfy their customers. I am engaged and live with Steve Raymond and I have heard everything that you have been saying about him. What you are saying is SO UNTRUE and very unfair! You have been slandering, bashing, and lieing in your reptile classifieds which you are not supposed to do anyways and you have targeted your seemingly paranoia towards Steve. We have been told from many other people that Steve is not the only person that you have fraudulently slandered. Steve is honest and hard working and quite fair and he did take a huge risk doing business with you. Doing business with you is bad business Jordan. Oh and I do have a few questions for you too. **Why didn't you take the credit that we issued you before you began playing games on Kingsnake? **Why did you have no time to call for 8 days, but have all the time in the world to make slanderous lies? **Would you like me to post the picture of the disfigured blackheaded python that you sent Steve? I'm sure the world would love to see what comes from Python Rejections..... I mean Python Productions. **What happened to the tiger retics that you were going to send Steve? Didn't you hide behind your mommy when you should have been meeting Dan Atkinson? DAN WASTED 10 HOURS OF HIS DAY BELIEVING YOUR LIES. Although we may follow up with one more post, Rare Reptiles, Inc & I are NOT in the habbit of thowing mud. Everyone already knows that if you want the rarest animals at the best prices, Steve Raymond is the man. If any of you readers doubt this, why not scroll down and read all of the PRAISES about Steve. Or call Top Breeders that aren't living at home with their mommy and see what Peter Kahl, Ralph Davis, Joe Lewis, Ernie Wagner, and Jeremy Stone have bought from Steve. The only people that Steve pisses off are the ones that miss out on these great deals. Smart breeders know that not only can Steve score unbelievable animals at never heard of prices, he also spends tens of thousands of dollars regularly buying the best animals on the planet. I know this sounds extreme, but ask anyone whos purchased if Steve is an honest man and you will know the truth. Jordan... I heard Steve appoligize to you on the phone. You woke him up at 1am on a Sunday morning, 8 days after your purchase and after dodging his phone calls to make this childish claim. OF COURSE he's concerned about every customer, but he's not going to take it in the !**@&#(!!! because you are too busy to make a claim within 48 hours of your receival. We know that Kyle James has contacted you today just to be a good guy - but not because he has to - nor would Steve have to - just to try to please your impossible credit claiming policy. Steve did offer you some credit, which he didn't have to NOR likely would anyother dealer on the planet, so why are you being so disrespectful and childish? Jordan... when you decide to call Steve and appoligize for the insults, and remove your negative posts, he may work something out with you. If not, and you continue this illegal slanderous behavor, maybe risking your mother's house... get the picture??!???!! Once again, Steve will forget about all of this if you call and appoligize for your behavor and we can do business again and I'm sure you'd be happy. If any of you would like to see this blackhead that Jordan sent Steve, I'm sure you will wonder why on earth Steve did business with Jordan Russell. Atleast Steve is willing to work with this poor animal. Also Steve is more than happy to take any calls on this matter. Please call rather than e-mailing because we wonder about people who spend too much time typing like I am forced to do now. Thank you everyone for reading this rediculas nonsense. -Karen P.S. We will see you in Daytona and the Washington show! Yes... the Pearl Boa died pregnant and hopefully Steve's litter mates will produce more - but this snake was never stolen and was originally produced by Joe C. of Tacoma, Washington. That's all folks! P.S.S. We stronly suggest you purchase any of the snakes that Jordan is selling based on his paranoia. They are incredible deals so long as they are the same snakes. |
| Steve Raymond |
Steve Raymond - The Real Guy
6411.html Posted At 04:05:51 07/27/2001 Notice to anyone who has a promblem with me: Please CALL ME! Toby, call me >>or<< have whoever I owe call me. Maybe we should talk, if you want to know the truth. If I owe your boss, have him call. Whatever the issue is, it would be between him & I. Not you & the world!!! I'm not broke, nor have I ever intentfully ripped ANYONE off. It is possible in this industry to have an unpaid debt if whoever you are talking maybe lost contact with me. Here I am. Anyone who has a problem, call me. I won't be up here writing everyday. I'm busy buying & selling RARE REPTILES, so if anybody has a problem or concern, CALL ME!!! P.S. Do you want to talk with the guy who sold me the Pearl Boa? He lives in Tacoma & would laugh at your mis-information. Where is a police report on this "STOLEN SNAKE" What planet do Pearl Boas come from? Bye-Bye! THANKS EVERYONE ELSE FOR A GREAT YEAR!!! PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT RARE ANIMALS YOU HAVE FOR SALE. I AM ALWAYS SCOUTING!!! SEE YOU AT THE SHOW IN DAYTONA & I'LL BE IN PUYALLUP, WASHINGTON AS WELL. LAST YEAR I HAD 5 TABLES THERE. ANYBODY WANT TO TALK WITH THE STAFF OF THAT SHOW??? I WILL HAPPILY LIST STAFF NAMES & PHONE #'s. THANKS AGAIN!!! Jordan, Call me with an apology & we'll talk about your concerns. Keep in mind it is only I that can choose if you have a claim after 48 hrs - NOT YOU. Waiting 8 days & insulting me at 1:00 am was very bad judgement on your part. I rarely tell anybody no on anything. Slandering me publicly is intolerable. You have a pattern of this. Is everybody out to get Jordan or are you perhaps part of the problem? Thanks again everyone for reading the facts. Karen pretty much know whats up, seeing how she is in charge of shipping/receiving. I know she takes it personal too & I'm proud of her for calling it as she sees it. Steve Raymond - GOOD GUY |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6412.html Posted At 04:26:59 07/27/2001 Hello Karen/Steve (Whoever)- First off I was never told of ANY 48 Hour Guarantee (EVER) secondly you don't even post that with your ads. How in the world was I supposed to know about this? As far as the black head goes, yes she has a damaged lip I even noted that above. You were told WELL in advance about this I even took face shots and emailed them to Steve. Nice try to turn that around and make it seem like I sent you a faulty animal though. As far as him calling about the black head I recieved two messages NEITHER said anything about the black head. I am sorry I have a life other than reptiles and I didn't have time to call you back until when I did. I was gone at a reptile show from friday until sunday and called when I cam in on Sunday (yes it was one in the morning, you had just posted an ad 20 minutes before, and you had no problem calling me as late as 2:30 in the morning when working out the deal. Even telling me you were a night person. When I called I asked if I called too late or if I woke you up. You said no you had just gotten home from your mothers where you posted the ads at.) Oh I am sorry there were papers, on the het albino ball (Photo copy of a Bob Clark invoice!) And oh yes the lovely hand written invoice for the het axanthics on a torn up old piece of paper, VERY professional & valid. Apperantly I am slandering Steve, please inform me how? This is a public forum. Slander would be lies, yet I have proof AND witnesses to ALL of this. So please don't try and bully me into a corner like the message I just recieved from Steve tried to do. It won't work. The credit you offered was ONLy for $122.49 for shipping charges you were supposed to have sent that out by last monday. Here it is nearly 2 weeks later and you STILL haven't sent it. I DID wait! Btw nice slam with the Python Rejections, shows character. As far as me & Dan meeting each other. I woke up around 6:30 ready to roll. Dan was supposed to call me at 8:00 I believe with directions to where we were meeting. He called about 45 minutes late to tell me that he didn't get directions but to start driving up the high way and to call him in 4 hours. There is no way in the world that was going to happen (especially after I drove to San Jose to meet him about 7 months ago and he never showed.) I called him back and left a message on his cell phone telling him there was a problem and to call me back. Steve called in the mean time and I filled him in. I also informed Steve my truck was out of commision and there was no way my mom would let me take her truck without at least knowing where in the world I was going. I tried to get ahold of Dan and ran around and did errands. Steve told me to tell Dan that I had engine trouble and that way he wouldn't be mad at either of us. Things happen, I tried to reach him there was nothing I could do. PS: Oh yes, Steve is the ONLY source for the best animals on the planet. It's ALWAYS better to go to a broker (after a price mark up) rather than the direct source. Anyone can put animals on a list and sell them, and then call up their sources and have them drop shipped. Please don't give me this "Steve is so holy line" I have gotten 4 emails since I posted this from people telling me stories of how he took advantage of them. I emailed them back asking them to post here. Hopefully some will. Oh yes, I was dodging his calls when I was trying to recieve a re-fund. That makes complete sense! AS far as me being dis-respectul & childish, I never called names or said anything dis-respectful in fact quite the opposite. You are the only ones calling names and pointing the finger. Ps: Is the "see you in Daytona" a threat? It sure seems that the message I was left on my machine was very threatening as well. " I would like to see you apologize and remove your post or the consequences you will not be pleased with. I would hate to have to do something I don't want to" What in the world is that supposed to mean??? I am leaving this alone as from here on out it will just be a spitting match. I would like everyone to see here and out what kind of people you will be dealing with at "Rare Reptiles". It makes me sick... Incase you didn't notice I am selling off the majority of my collection. This was the last straw for me. I can't handle dealing with people like this on a regular basis. This industry could be such a wonderful place if someone wasn't out to screw you at every corner. I am sorry for venting but I don't think I want to be dealing with people like this on a regular basis. I will be more content as a breeder/hobbyist than to have the stresses that come with these people. One last thing I forgot- as far as you threatening to sue me, go for it! I would love to see you in court. We actually already have lawyers lined up for you! A business acquaintance from over seas involved in this purchase behind the scenes already contacted his lawyer who WILL be in contact with YOU within a matter of days. As I said earlier, go for it push my buttons. See what those buttons trigger. You may think you are some heavy weight in this hobby (You sure talk about yourself like you are the God Father of reptiles) but you will learn very quickly what a small minute piece to this puzzle you are. Take care & good luck, Jordan Russell |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6413.html Posted At 04:33:13 07/27/2001 One last thing: If my animals were in such bad condition Karen (since you are the one who recieved them) why did you ship to me? Makes you wonder.... Ps: Steve when we spoke on the phone I said NOTHING insulting. You told me you won't be eating those costs and all I said was "Steve, just so you know, I WON'T be either" I said it in a stern voice. If you take that as insulting I am sorry, but it wasn't meant to be. There won't be an apology unless you plan to apologize to me for the disgusting animals you sent me. I have nothing to apologize for. - Jordan |
| Andrew Dershimer |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6414.html Posted At 04:34:27 07/27/2001 I've been watching this argument escalate and I've noticed that Karen and Steve are acting very childish. It seems that Jordan has the facts straight, and has the evidence to back them up. I noticed that Karen complained that Jordan sent a damaged black-headed python, but if he was trying to hide that, why would he acknowledge that fact in his initial post? I also think threatening Jordan with the loss of his mother's home, and using the fact that he lives there agaisnt him is very immature and unprofessional. I'll be sure to steer clear of Steve Raymond in any future dealings. Thank you Jordan. |
| Brienne Earnst |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6415.html Posted At 04:53:22 07/27/2001 I will also stand behind Jordan. I've had my dealings with Steve and Karen in my own way, at an expo, with a californa kingsnake(i know, nothing big, but still).. The poor thing was obviously very underfed, and when i asked for a feeding record, the reply was "oh, we don't keep track of that sort of thing, we just throw in a mouse every now and then, and who eats, eats, and who doesn't doesn't".. thats a direct quote. Since i've had him he's grown 2 full feet. When i first got him home on a steady diet, he began to shed every 2 and a half weeks.. just on one mouse ever 7 days. He's not very healthy and happy, and one of my only colubrids.. lol.. but anyway, i am friends with various well known people here in WA, and i've heard tons of bad crap about R.R.. My opinion is, don't deal with these people.. You're just asking for it... They clearly totally ripped Jordan off, and are now being very childish about it. If they have a problem with it, they shouldn't have ripped him off in the first place! |
| B.E. |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6417.html Posted At 05:01:44 07/27/2001 that was supposed to be "NOW healthy and happy"... not "is not healthy and happy"... stupid typos.. |
| Steve Raymond |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6419.html Posted At 07:49:35 07/27/2001 Jordan, You are right. I am acting childish. It was the only way to communicate with you after your behavior. You don't return calls & you fly off the handle at people quite often. I am more than happy to complete the transaction. You forgot to tell the world how you were going to ship those Tiger reticsafter you stood up Dan. Don't you think if you shipped them I would have saved $$$ by not being forced to do two seperate shipments? That is certainly an important fact. Of course, I told you I was short a few normal balls & planned on shipping those with the Het Axanthic (VPI) animal to have pleased you when you shipped the Tigers. The freight would have balanced out. You also were pretty relaxed, because you knew I didn't accept the extra $50 you were going to throw in for damaging that gecko you shipped me. I let that slide. I also told you I would give you replacement balls for the shortage. You think that is a bigger deal that shorting me 1.1 Adult Tiger Retics? See all of this we were working out, but you felt it was my obligation to cover your claim on animals you had for 8 days after accusing me or Kyle of switching. If you really felt that, how come your not even nervous about the adult female het albino that I hooked you up with? You never did return my calls when I tried to reach you after shipment. You also made me wait 3 weeks to do this disaster deal, but still have not finished up on your end. Why do you jump off the handle? You could have waited to see what Kyle said. Everything issue was being addressed. I just want you to admit that after 8 days & avoiding me, it not my responsibility, & I was trying to work with you before you slandered me on Kingsnake. Read your ads, that isn't a forum. This is. You do have $122 credit coming + I'm happy to make up the missing normal balls. That was the plan. I've been holding the VPI het axanthic for a month for you now & still no Tiger Retics. You can tell the public whatever you want. I'm glad you have a following crowd. I have no threats for you. I do look forward to meeting you & I hope we can work this out. Our problem is simply your approach. It looks like Kyle is doing something for you. After 48 hrs it is not my liability unless I choose it. You upset me because you basically accused me or Kyle of misrepresentaion. I pride myself with doing a good job & Kyle did have papers for you. I am going to mail you an invoice. That should have accompanied the shipment. However, we already had talked & emailed the deal many times. I would like to talk with you pleasantly. I want you to understand my job & reallize that my responsibilities do have to end somewhere. As far as the Blackhead goes, for the quality, I paid alot. I could construe that this snake is terrible - but that would be an exaggeration - if you have been honest about her feeding. She just looks terrible. Karen brought her home, because she loves animals & knew I had my heart set on her & would be willing to play the risk. There are risks in this industry. She is going into a shed & I am sure you would agree (I'll post a pic so people can see my side) I do plan on breeding her & I do think she'll hopefully work out. How long is your guarantee? If she dies or doesn't feed, will you be able to send back my animals or are you going to give me $2,750? My policy has been the same since 1995. What exactly is yours? I want the public to look & tell me if they would be at least a little nervous. Especially, when I did call to talk with you twice before you made the claim & I heard nothing. Put the shoe on my foot. I was easy to get along with until you questioned my integrity about selling heteros. I can list many people who are hitting great with various hets that have been purchased from me. Did you know that I sold 6.3 het caramel albino balls to Kahl last fall? I took that very personally when you claimed those 2 were wild. That was my straw. Isn't it possible of heat damage or did you feed them something too large? How do I know what you've done? I am entitle to being notified of a problem immediately, if you expect me to help. I don't leave people hanging if they are at least polite. If not, I go by the book. I do appologize for acting up, but I was following your lead. You have been too paranoid & maybe some of your other experiences have hardened your outlook. Try relaxing. Take time off. I had to for awhile. This industry can be cold-blooded & I honestly do try hard to please everyone. I don't want your Moms house & I don't want any headaches. I was sarcastically pointing out that slander is a very bad thing. I'm not referring to what you wrote here. If you think its cost-effective to sue me, than don't accept Kyles snakes or the credit that I've offered & you can harbor bitterness. Like I said, I was & am still willing to work with you on some of your concerns. You need to look at mine too & take back some of the garbage you've posted. I certainly did not appreciate having you do what you did on Kingsnake classifieds. THAT WAS VERY WRONG. I am unsure of what you think is going on overseas, but I encourage you to gather all the facts (both sides) of any story, before you go posting postal again. I have quite a tidbits of info on you & honestly it's nobodys business but the people who are actually involved. I am sorry if Karen offended you, she has a right to voice her opinion just like anyone else. BRIENNE, If you have a complaint or problem, please call me & I'm sure we can work it out. I would love to address your concerns as well. I really am a nice guy & your welcome to visit by appointment & I think you will have a wonderful experience. Shows can be hectic & quite possibly didn't get the service that you wanted. Let me make it up to you. Also, if anyone does have an old, new, or current problem, don't go postal, call me & give a guy a chance. Several of my friends & customers called & wrote me wondering if they should tell there POSITIVE experiences. I told them not to worry, because Jordan, I felt was just blowing off steam. Many of you who wrote have some valid opinions on trades, public relations, etc. However there are several huge lies that were thrown at me. I've addressed many of them & can back up anything I've claimed with referances. I'm done throwing mud, but I will show the blackhead within a day, just so everyone can see how great of a deal I got. She doen't look good at all, but I think she'll be okay. She was not purchased for resale & had to of suffered a terrible bite when youg. She is capable, if she feeds, of producing perfect babies. I will also show in a week or so, what a great Blackhead looks like. I am buying a group of awesome adults to breed & they aren't costing much more than this obvious B-grade. Call me Jordan & let's try again. My phone call was simply to give you a choice if you want to work this out or what. I do appologize for my irony, but with how disrespectful you've treated me, I feel it was justifiable. No where in all my years has somebody accused me with so much nonsense. What reaction would you expect? Steve |
| jAMES PARKS |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6423.html Posted At 09:53:35 07/27/2001 well i have been reading this from the begining an wasnt going to pick a side but i think i should i agree with jordan,andrew,and brienne on this |
| Tim / A.R.C. |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy?)
6427.html Posted At 13:23:36 07/27/2001 Wow, I have done trades with Steve Raymond at Rare Reptiles and never had a problem. Steve has sent me animals first without any payment or even a firm agreement on price or trade value. If the animals were not exactly what I was looking for; they were sent back without any problems. He has always stood behind his animals in our transactions, so I hope you both can come to a mutually beneficial final arangement. Jordon is right about the amount of rip-off artists and con artists in this business, but I do not feel Steve fits into that catagory. Anyway I hope you both can work this out together. Best regards, Tim / A.R.C. |
| JEREMY STONE REPTILES |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6433.html Posted At 16:36:38 07/27/2001 This has been brought to my attention by a few people, and not to be rude, but there is nothing more annoying than everyone dragging to my attention to something going on in the "BOARD OF INQUIRY" This includes me in only 1 way. I did have the Pearl Boa on breeding loan, and yes the snake unfortuantly passed away gravid. Steve and Karen have the Necropsy report, and it was an unfortunate situatation that wasn't in any of our hands. I can for sure verify that the Pearl Boa was NOT stolen. Like Steve said, Please show proof of that if you are going to make a claim like that. He may have Stole it for a good price lol, but he didn't commit fraud to obtain the animal. Now, here is my opinion, and I know I am going to get crap for this as it may sound hollier than thou, but here it goes. I think the Board of Inquiry is a good resource, but it is abused by way too many people. I don't read the posts in here becuase all it takes is one long thread and it makes you want to go somewhere else quick. I can say that if you are a "Regular" in the Board of Inquiry, you may want to check the way you do business. Everyone Bags on the Reptile business as it is such a bad one. Well, EVERY business has bad apples, and they get weeded out, but if you have to come in here to get opinions more than once on how to conduct business, you probably shouldn't be conducting it. It seems all to often people come in and "RAT" out a bad deal in hopes that the person will make it up becuase they are "POSTED IN THE BOARD OF INQUIRY". No offense to Jordan, but don't you think this could have been handled differently? I know Steve is a good guy, and you probably are too, so why don't you put heads together and work it out in private. Not everybody wants to hear this, and if you think posting is the only way to motivate him, that isn't the way to Motivate him. The Reptile business is a tough one becuase you have LIVE animals you are working with. Live animals are sometimes sick and vulnerable to death. Many people don't take care of them. Many of these people are dealers. The Reptile business is a great one. However, if you are dealing with people who respect the animals, and have good guarantees, you shouldn't have a problem in the business. I don't want to get involved in this, but you mention you have a 48 hour Guarantee. Why do you expect more than 48 hours in return? I notice many are at fault of not posting guarantees, and I am at fault for that too. I just wanted to close by saying that the Reptile business is a good one if you treat others the way you want to be treated in return. Obviously it didn't work that way with Jordan and Steve on this one, but hopefully it will work out. It also seems that many people who have complaints are due to trades. It seems that many people take in comprimised health animals. I have NO idea what people do this, but it baffles me how many times they do. Example: Somebody will swap a lizzard with an eye infection and tail scars for some other snake that is not taken care of too. Then both people bicker about it. Again, this forum is a great source for good info but I think if you have to check with everyones opinon on how you should conduct yourself, something is fishy. If everyone would just treat people fairly we wouldn't have to have this forum, but we don't live in a perfect world. It is unfortunate that people who do thousands of deals get posted in here for 1 misfortunate situation. It happens to many people too often when I bet it could be handled better. Of course breeders who produce a lot of animals and sell a lot won't be able to make EVERYONE happy, but if they are fair in their hearts, they should have No worries, and they will definatley get repeat customers. If you are a Board of Inquiry regular, it seems you are a little uncomfortable with yourself and the way you conduct business. Even if you aren't, it appears that way to many of us. I don't know why, but people love Controversy, and they love to hear negative stuff. I have gotten caught in that trap recently on an incident a few months ago, and all it does is cause negative feelings, and a bunch of crap. It is best to try to handle situatations in private. If you can't do it in private, and you have exhausted all your resources trying to correct it and you can't, then you should post them if you feel you are dealing with a fraud or con artist. Sometimes you can just smell a rat a mile away, and that is fine too, but so many people see this negative stuff, and it is a turn off. The Reptile business is a good one, you just have to find the right people to conduct it with. My new rule of thumb is to only deal with people that you can make sure you meet face to face. I know the little guys may think I am marketing against them when I say this, but I mean it. Of course there are deals to be made, and sometimes the bigger breeders or the honest ones with animals you desire are too high. There may be a few good sources to get the same animal at a cheaper price, but you also have to weigh the risks. Sometimes it works great, other times, it stinks. To me, it just isn't worth the hassle if you are talking about a ton of money. Enough Rambling, but I wanted to make my points. I don't want to post, but the Pearl dragged me into this. Steve and I have known eachother for 5 years on a personal level. He has always been fair with me, and me with him. Steve has purchased many thousands of dollars of animals I have produced, and I have used his services to buy animals at a reduced price that he was able to find. We had a misunderstanding, and had some unfortunate situations with some deals last year, but we both worked them out in a fair way, and I know that I can say that Steve is NON a con artist or a Bad guy. Although both of us had our problem last year, we both had the mutual respect that we treated others with integrity but we just didn't see eye to eye on a certain situation. Had Steve and I decided to take it public on writing although many knew about it becuase of both of us VENTING, we probably wouldn't have patched things up in in good way which would have been very unforutnate. With most situations if you use a little patients and some understanding, you can ALWAYS work things out in a fair way IF (IF I stress) you are dealing with someone fair. Unfortunatley for you Jordan it seems you have had a few negative experiences. You defintley need to be more careful, and you will have a much more positive experience. There are some people I don't feel sorry for anymore becuase they just keep getting burned and burned to save a few bucks, but they just haven't learned their lesson. I am not saying you are in that category yet, but hopefully you don't get there. Steve is NOT the type of guy that will be unfair with you. 8 days later is a little hard for anyone to swallow. However, I am sure he would have been and still would be commited to make it right for the both of you if handled differently. Sorry to get involved, but I did want the opportunity to let people know my viewpoints on the Board of Inquiry and you sort of dragged me into it with the Pearl Boa. I in NO WAY endorse theft for animals. The Pearl was at my house 100 percent legally. Jeremy Stone |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6436.html Posted At 19:10:55 07/27/2001 I hope this is the last thread to this. I have never met Steve nor Jordan, but after reading these rebuttals after rebuttals it becomes very clear that expectations (on both sides ) were not met. Substantial misunderstandings. Trades can always be misinterpeted, I think it would be best for Jordan to either work out a solution to get his freight money back and receive whatever snakes are owed to him (if any) , stop calling your friends to respond to this thread and calling Rare Reptiles a ripoff artist, etc. If you feel that you were grievously taken, then sue Steve, otherwise put an end to it. I would also encourage Steve to settle up to what he feels his obligation should be and move on with his life. It was a bad deal that got worse, it happens, but that does not make Rare Reptiles a thief or con artist or a bad business person , on the contrary, he responded with his explanation, whether Jordan likes it or not. Cool heads prevail, and once the smoke simmers down, I think a satisfactory conclusion can be reached by both parties, I know from my own dealings with Steve, that if approached properly, he will go out of his way to resolve a problem. I dont know if Jordan was a bit hot headed, but I suspect that the tone of the conversation was not pleasant. This Reptile business at least in todays market seems to promote the worst in people. Jordan, give Steve a call and work it out! |
| KYLE JAMES |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6443.html Posted At 20:00:47 07/27/2001 PATRICK, YOU GAVE ME A SECOND CHANCE BECAUSE YOU KILLED THE FIRST ANIMAL YOURSELF AND YOU WANTED ANOTHER ONE. SINCE THE ANIMAL DIED DURING SHIPPING, AND YOU AND I BOTH STATED THAT. YOU TRADED THE SNAKE (I KNOW THE STORY BECAUSE STORIES DO GET AROUND IN THIS BUSINESS)AS A MALE OFFSPRING FROM AN IMPORTED AXANTHIC. (BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT HE WAS)!!! 1ST QUESTION, IF YOU THOUGHT HE WAS IMPORTED AND ALL MESSED UP, WHY DID YOU EVEN TRADE HIM OFF. YOU SHOULD HAVE CONTACTED ME FOR ANOTHER SNAKE OR YOUR MONEY BACK. SAY I GOT A SNAKE AND DID NOT THINK IT WAS WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE, AND ALL MESSED UP, I SURE WOULD NOT RESALE OR TRADE IT FOR OTHER ANIMALS AND SAY IT WAS THE SNAKE THAT I DID NOT REALLY THINK IT WAS. I HAVE ALREADY GOTTEN PHONE CALLS (NOTICE, MORE THAN ONE!!!) FROM PEOPLE WHO HEARD ABOUT THE DEAL INVOLVING THE MALE AXANTHIC OFFSPRING FROM ME INVOLVED IN THE TRADE YOU MADE AND TRADED IT AS A OFFSPRING FROM MY MALE AXANTHIC. THANK YOU, KYLE THAT MY FRIEND IS A FACT!!!!!! I HAVE EMAILED YOU MY PHONE NUMBER, WHICH I KNOW YOU ALREADY HAVE BECAUSE YOU CALLED ME AFTER THAT ONE DIED DURING SHIPPING WANTING ANOTHER AND YET YOU STILL DO NOT CALL TO TALK ABOUT THIS. IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO SAY ABOUT ME, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO EITHER POST IT AND MAKE UP MORE LIES OR YOU CAN CALL ME. I EMAILED YOU MY PHONE NUMBER AGAIN WHEN THIS WHOLE THING GOT STARTED BUT YOU WILL NOT CALL. THAT IS ALRIGHT, I WILL RUN INTO YOU AT THE REPTILE SHOW ONE DAY AND WE CAN TALK FACE TO FACE ABOUT THIS WHOLE INCIDENT AND TRY TO GET ALL THE FACTS OUT IN THE OPEN LIKE ADULTS SHOULD DO. THANKS AGAIN, KYLE |
| Steve Raymond |
Good Guy - Misinterprated
6445.html Posted At 22:13:18 07/27/2001 Thanks for those that actually have made the special time to respond. I am not on any witch hunt, nor am I perfect. Jerry Tresser & Jeremy have summed up a few excellent points about my character & my intentions. Jordan, please email me your address & I will forward a refund for the freight discrepency. $122 -PLUS- I will cover monetarily the (2) missing balls. ($15 ea.) We both admit that I informed you of this prior to shipment. I know that it is the right thing to do, to forward that payment along, regardless of my feelings & your inability to provide the promised Tiger Retics. Jordan, please take note of policies that you are & were advised of, & that people are as liable as you allow them to be. I am sorry your experience as not as good as 1,000 others. Jeremy is right to say that my intentions was & always will be good. Jerry & Tim would also agree with that. I know that Kahl & Joe Lewis were offendend when they heard this B.S. Most of us really do have better things to do with our lives than to type nonsense here. I have never stolen a Pearl Boa, intentionally ripped Jordan off, or am currently banned from any shows. As stated over 5 times, CALL ME! I do not wish to drag anyone thru mud, but some of my vendors are getting upset with Jordans slanderous attacks. I am going to refrain from posting the pic (it will only look terrible for Jordan) unless I am egged on. I will email it personally to anyone who really cares to see what I had to put up with. Thanks everyone. Steve |
| Yasser Moustafa and Cheyanne Day (Spitfire Reptiles) |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6467.html Posted At 15:43:59 07/28/2001 I am a WA resident and I have known Steve since 1993 when he began doing business with a pet store I was working at. To start, he has misreprested his animals COUNTLESS times...in one case, I went to his "showroom" where he stated he had just gotten in a bunch of 3-6 foot Guyana Redtails. I asked if they were WC as they looked it. He was honest and stated that they in fact were and he had just recieved them the day before. I then asked if any were feeding yet and he stated that he hadn't even tried. A few minutes later, while I perused his place, he got a call from someone who was interested in the boas. I overheard him say " oh yeah...they're looking good! Yep, they're eating really well...yup, they're captive born." I was somewhat shocked that he said that to him as I was less than 15 feet away. At the same time I was not so shocked as I had already known of all of the snakes and lizards I'd thrown in the freezer that my boss had bought from him when I worked at the pet store. That was my early introduction to Steve Raymond. Now regarding some statements made by Steve, I was at the WA show last year and yes you were there but you have J@ck SH*T for sale animal-wise but you did have tons of junk dry goods that looked like you bought them on closeout from a petshop that was shutting down. The previous year he had people poiting out that his snakes had mites including one big Tiger Retic I personally saw that was infested. As most folks know, mites at a Captive breeders expo is a big no-no. He quickly grabbed the snake and hid it from anyone else...so no one else could cause a scene. I hoestly would have to say that his table is the sore spot of the WA herp show. But he still manages to attract the newbies that don't know who he is yet. His bad rep abounds locally but it is just too bad that word hasn't gotten out nationally. Steve, when you state you had to take a break from the business, wasn't that when you owed Pete Kahl an ungodly amount of money? I heard thru various folks you were just hiding out, hoping things would blow over. But I guess you worked things out with Pete...good for you. Regarding Jordan...we need more guys like him in this trade. If he doesn't give up on it altogether, he will be someone that ALL of us in the hobby/industry will know in the future. I would almost call him a herp prodigy. He has phenomenal amounts of experience and knowledge for a guy of his age. To attack him because he lives at home with his mom is downright rude. If anything he should be praised because he has his head on straight and knows what his priorites are. He is going to college...to earn a degree...to make something of himself...I am sure he is extemely busy with his diverse collection and being a full time student. I know many many people who have purchased from him and gotten nothing but the best...honestly represented animals. Not to mention his success in producing snakes that are notoriously difficult to breed. From our own experience, Jordan has been nothing but honest, upfront and forthright with the way he does business. We actually have a deal in the works with him as we speak where he is sending us snakes weeks before our trade offspring are ready to be shipped. That hardly seems like someone who is trying to cheat or rip you off. I am not here to be friends with you Steve...nor do I wish to clear things up with you. I have been biting my lip for years about you. And now you know. See you at the WA show in October! I decided that ripping off Jordan was the last straw... I am SICK of it and people like you making a mockery of this industry. GOOD LUCK JORDAN!!!! |
| chad bisbing |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6484.html Posted At 20:21:45 07/28/2001 Heh. Go get 'em Yasser...... |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6487.html Posted At 21:08:35 07/28/2001 what does the above message have to do with this problem with Jordan, answer NOTHING! This forum was intended to provide an explanation on a problem that occurred between two businesses. Why its necessary to introduce what one saw or said a year ago or how they interpet a particular situation has nothing to do with the problem at hand, if anything all it does is add more unnesssary fuel to the fire, and I really question the motives of the above post. If you have nothing constructive to add that is pertinent, do us all a favour and do it privately. |
| Yasser Moustafa and Cheyanne Day (Spitfire Reptiles) |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6494.html Posted At 01:01:56 07/29/2001 Jerry, It seems quite pertinent. The last time I checked my Websters', "blacklist" is a term referring to a compilation of dishonest people and/or their dealings. We merely are adding info on the character of Mr. Raymond. I constantly have local customers who have told me of their botched buys/trades with Steve as well as what I have seen for myself. He's not built to be a reptile dealer...he's a used car salesman in the habit of dealing big fat rotten lemons. He would try to sell a refridgerator to an Eskimo. I normally go by the saying that if you have nothing good to say, then don't say anything at all. In this situation regarding Steve Raymond, I have chosen to make an exception. I have kept my mouth shut for the last 8 years about him and it is time that everyone knows the truth. He may drop big names but it does not mean he's a good person. To those who have had good luck with him...it is just that...luck. You probably got animals that never hit his hands. And for Steve to state that he still plans to breed the blackhead, I have never seen or heard of him having a single egg from any reptile. So why would he start now?! He's just a broker...a dropshipper. A middleman. Anyone with a monkeys' brain could do that. (sorry to all of the monkeys out there) We live by one motto...if you get burned once, that's one time too many...don't stick your hand back in the fire. We've stated our piece and now wash our hands of this. Good luck to you Jordan and also to anyone who may be caught in the middle of a deal with Mr. Raymond. |
| Patrick Hughett @ North Texas Reptiles |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6497.html Posted At 02:56:32 07/29/2001 Jerry, Perhaps you have the purpose of this forum turned around and not the rest of us in here. You say, "This forum was inteded to provide an explanation on a problem that occured between two businesses." Apparently, the ownership of this site must have changed or something, because I could have swore that the webmaster said, "This forum is designed to serve the purpose of giving anyone interested in the buying and selling of reptiles and amphibians the opportunity to inquire about, or find already existing information concerning a person or business with whom they are considering doing business with". I didn't know you bought this site and changed the purpose of it. I thought Yasser made some very good points! Who cares if it was a year ago? It happened nonetheless! That is what the forum is for...to let people write in about businesses and speak of dealings with them to let other people know about them. It is intended for people to write in a "Good Guy(Girl), Bad Guy(Girl)" comment on particular businesses. I feel that the information given was very pertinent. Who are you to say who can jump in and say something about the business being spoken of? After all...with all due respect...YOU jumped in! Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| Ritchie Luna |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6498.html Posted At 05:51:15 07/29/2001 For what its worth....my dealing with steve was good. All my questions were answered. The snake was really pretty. And after it got used to its new surroundings.......it ate like a champ. I brought the stools to work and checked for parasites and it was clean. I hope you two are able to work this out. Good luck all and peace |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6501.html Posted At 08:07:33 07/29/2001 No possible good can come out of personalized stories .Sometimes these can be contrued as "quite one sided"that is what has happened here! I certainly dont have a problem if you were to email Jordan or anyone else for that matter with difficulties that you may have had, but.......from prior posts alot of this can be construed as "self serving", and thats my gripe! Instead of sticking to the difficulty of the problem and trying to resolve it, one has to deal with 25 friends from both sides telling their stories and achieving nothing more than herp bashing. Assuming that you are correct that Steve brokers animals, and assuming that he never even sees the animals does not limit his liability or resposibility for that particular sale. If you have had dealings with Steve and found him unresponsive, attempted to steal from you, did not stick to his agreement, etc. I dont see a problem in letting people know about it. But for someone to bring up the fact that they " have been silent for 8 years and that Steve would sell a refrig. to an Eskimo, and on and on is nothing more than being revengeful and taking the opportunity to further flame a simple problem that could easily be rectified. From reading the above post, Steve already has attempted to make some overtures to work something out with Jordan. Rather than pouring Vinegar on an open would, lets see if things can be patched up. That to me is the purpose of this forum. I agree with you wholehardetly, their are alot of losers floating around this business, but Steves problem may be more of not being a smart business man more than the villian you make him out to be! One other point, as indicated earlier, I have never met Steve, so I dont want you to think Iam one of his cronies. My only interest is provinding a "fair play area" without having to bring up things that are really irrelevent to the subject at hand. Otherwise more friends and enemies will continue this thread forever. If you or anyone else has a gripe with Steve, the answer is simple. If you are unhappy with the service, Sue him! Take it legally, show the forum that an outrage has occurred, provide the necessary proof that would put him out of business, but once you become personal and attack him on that level, then its not a subject for this forum, nor do I think the webmaster intended it to be a vechicle for that purpose! |
| TERRY LYNCH |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6515.html Posted At 22:20:47 07/29/2001 I HAVE NEVER DEALT WITH STEVE BUT I CANT BELIEVE THIS CHILD LIKE POSTS FROM HIS COMPANY .TO TRY AND TAKE HIS MOMS HOUSE PLEASE.I HAVE PURCHASED SEVERAL SNAKES FROM JORDAN IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS EVERY ONE WAS OK.HE IS VERY HONEST RETURNS ALL OF MY CALLS AND SHIPS ONTIME AVERY TIME A REAL PROFESSIONAL.AND I LOVE TO TALK TO HIS MOM WHEN I CALL A REAL NICE LADY.WHY CUT HIM DOWN BECAUSE HE LIVES WITH HER GOD HES ON EIGHTEEN LOOK AT WHAT HE HAS DONE AT THE AGE OF EIGHTEEN.WHAT WERE WE DOING AT THAT AGE I DONT EVEN WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT.BUT JORDAN IS A GOOD GUY YOU CAN TRUST ME ON THAT.I JUST HOPE THIS ALL WORKS OUT. |
| Salvador Cruz |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6516.html Posted At 23:49:50 07/29/2001 I THINK THAT JORDAN IS VERY HONEST AND TRUSTWORTHY. HE DROVE OUT FROM ORANGE TO LOS ANGELES TO SELL ME 3 ADULT BALLS 2 SEMI ADULT 4 CAPTIVE HATCHED BABIES THAT WERE SOLD TO ME AS CH.. NOT TOLD TO BE CAPTIVE BRED. WHICH THEY COULD HAVE PASSED FOR IN MY OPINION. I WORK IN A PET STORE AND I GET TO SEE ALL THE CH AND THEY LOOK MOST OF THE TIME AS BAD AS THE WILD CAUGHT. JUST THIS SEASON ALONE I HAVE SEEN ABOUT 200 AND THEY WERE PRETTY SH*TTY. WELL NEEDLESS TO SAY I AM SAVING UP TO BUY A FEW MORE BALLS FORM JORADN. OH AND BY THE WALL FOR ALL OF THE BALL PYTHONS LISTED ABOVE DELIVERD TO ME JORDAN KICKED DOWN AND SOLD ALL OF THEM FOR $200.00 I WOULD HAVE PAID ABOUT THAT JUST FOR THE 3 LTC MALES. IT WAS A GOOD DEAL AND I JUMPED ON IT. HE DIDNT LIE TO ME ABOUT NOTHING. HE EVEN SHOWED ME A LIL SCAR ON HAD FROM A RAT THAT REVIVED WHEN IT WAS COILED BY THE ADULT.(HE USES FRESH KILLED FOR MOST I BELIEVE.) I AM NOT SURE WHO STUCK PEPPERS UP THEASE OTHER PEOPLES A**'S I AM ALSO 18 AND I HOPE THAT IN THE NEXT YEAR I CAN BECOME WHAT JORDAN IS RIGHT NOW...A GREAT REPETUBUAL BREEDER. NOT A 35 YEAR OLD BITTER CON ARTIST TRING TO MAKE A DOLLAR OUT OF .15 CENTS YOU GET MORE BEES WITH HONEY THAN WITH VINEGAR. YOU ACT LIKE YOU HOT BUT YOU JUST ARE BURNED.... LATES SALVADOR CRUZ |
| Salvador Cruz |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6517.html Posted At 23:50:00 07/29/2001 I THINK THAT JORDAN IS VERY HONEST AND TRUSTWORTHY. HE DROVE OUT FROM ORANGE TO LOS ANGELES TO SELL ME 3 ADULT BALLS 2 SEMI ADULT 4 CAPTIVE HATCHED BABIES THAT WERE SOLD TO ME AS CH.. NOT TOLD TO BE CAPTIVE BRED. WHICH THEY COULD HAVE PASSED FOR IN MY OPINION. I WORK IN A PET STORE AND I GET TO SEE ALL THE CH AND THEY LOOK MOST OF THE TIME AS BAD AS THE WILD CAUGHT. JUST THIS SEASON ALONE I HAVE SEEN ABOUT 200 AND THEY WERE PRETTY SH*TTY. WELL NEEDLESS TO SAY I AM SAVING UP TO BUY A FEW MORE BALLS FORM JORADN. OH AND BY THE WALL FOR ALL OF THE BALL PYTHONS LISTED ABOVE DELIVERD TO ME JORDAN KICKED DOWN AND SOLD ALL OF THEM FOR $200.00 I WOULD HAVE PAID ABOUT THAT JUST FOR THE 3 LTC MALES. IT WAS A GOOD DEAL AND I JUMPED ON IT. HE DIDNT LIE TO ME ABOUT NOTHING. HE EVEN SHOWED ME A LIL SCAR ON HAD FROM A RAT THAT REVIVED WHEN IT WAS COILED BY THE ADULT.(HE USES FRESH KILLED FOR MOST I BELIEVE.) I AM NOT SURE WHO STUCK PEPPERS UP THEASE OTHER PEOPLES A**'S I AM ALSO 18 AND I HOPE THAT IN THE NEXT YEAR I CAN BECOME WHAT JORDAN IS RIGHT NOW...A GREAT REPETUBUAL BREEDER. NOT A 35 YEAR OLD BITTER CON ARTIST TRING TO MAKE A DOLLAR OUT OF .15 CENTS YOU GET MORE BEES WITH HONEY THAN WITH VINEGAR. YOU ACT LIKE YOUR HOT BUT YOU JUST ARE BURNED.... LATES SALVADOR CRUZ |
| Dan Palmatier |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles
6587.html Posted At 14:24:14 07/31/2001 Being somewhat new to this business (3 � years of retail) one of the first dealings I had is with Steve Raymond. I was only selling pet supplies wholesale at the time, and had a small collection of reptiles of my own. I asked Steve for advice on the industry, he was more then willing to help me. He spent time with me setting things up even though I was only carrying $10 and $20 lizards he was always willing to answer any questions I had. If a reptile didn�t sell well in my store he was always willing to switch it out and try to get things moving in the right direction. He showed me how to spot quality reptiles. Now that time has passed, my (reptile only) store is doing great. I have everything from Ball Pythons to Albino Boas in stock. I have been told (even by those who have responded negatively about Steve in this forum) the selection and quality of my reptiles is very good; several of those reptiles came from Steve. Till this day, if I can�t find just the right reptile or need advice on the market Steve is one of the first people I call. |
| JARED HORENSTEIN |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6588.html Posted At 15:06:11 07/31/2001 I have dealt with both Steve and Jordan.....IN MY EXPERIENCES both have proved to be relaible and honest. I sold Steve some balls in the past and I would do business with him in the future, and i also worked a trade with Jordan...and i am Extremely pleased with the quality of the animal i recieved. I would certainly hope that if there are any problems that they can be resolved like adults....These are both people that are in this business for one common reason.....and its not to rip eachother off.....its for the love of these awesome animals...if they were here to "pull the wool over our eyes" so to speak then they would have been driven out of the hobby long ago much like a MR. TRIBBETT that we all know way too much about. Jared horenstein |
| Steve Raymond |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (TRUTHFUL GUY)
6605.html Posted At 18:32:45 07/31/2001 Jordan, Your tracking # is ET518349679US The address that I am mailing to is: 1327 East Locust Orange, CA 92867-5819 Unless, you contact me with an alternate address, this will be in tomorrow's mail system. Obviously you are not going to be adult about this & return my attempted calls or emails. I do not want to be accused of you not receiving $$$ when you are purposely avoiding me. Why do you want me to owe you? I am publicly verifying this as the correct information since you have not returned my phone calls or emailed me your address. I obtained it from J.W. who you owe $$$ (or snakes) & he wishes to be anonymous in fear that he won't see his product if he gets involved. Sorry J.W. Your address was not on your invoice & it makes it quite difficult to give you your freight + $30 when you ignore my requests. All I have heard are these witch-hunt stories. Did you plead with Yasser to write that trash? He based his opinion on here-say that I supposedly said on a phone conversation that he eavesdropped on. That is real credible! You might want to research your "BAND WAGON BASHERS" Yasser still owes a friend of mine (MIKE HARRIS) over a thousand dollars on Albino Boas that he weaseled some 2-3 years ago. I did not bring him in. You did. So, that is why I mention that. Why not consider your sources? Every false attack that you or your "INTERNET DAMAGE CREW" has made, has not been supported by facts that are verifiable. Only false claims. Hmmmmmmmm........ AS STATED BEFORE: He who has a problem come forward & I will deal with you one-to-one. Otherwise......... FORGET YOUR WITCH HUNT. Yasser, This is between Jordan & I. But, since you want to get involved, why don't you explain how you ripped Mike Harris off for Albino Boas 2 or 3 years ago? Also, your friend (ex-friend Nick from Spokane) just had a nice experience with me. I received some Timor Pythons from him that you use to own in trade for a ghost ball. Nick went on & on to tell me horror stories about you. You two have been through the RINGER! I guess I'm not the only person you decided to BASH. But you know what, the Timor pythons were good. They were your snakes before & the snakes didn't care what was send about their previous owner. That is the bottom line. I also do not owe Kahl any $$$. He would love it if I did. I pay my vendors. I guess you can't believe everything you here or read. That is why I post with VERIFIABLE FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as breeding goes, Yasser, why don't you send me an email or call me??? Also, call Mike Harris at 253-841-2173!!!!! You've owed him since 1999 - $700 still. I spoke with him today & you've been avoiding him. Please throw mud on yourself & instead of me!!! I'll show you what this used car salesman is up to. I mean that in a friendly way. I think that you would be pleasantly surprised. I feel terrible that you construed that I was lying to someone on the phone when you visited me. How do you know what they said or what I meant? I respect the fact that you've been quiet for 8 years. Likely because there has been nothing to talk about until you found an avenue to jab at me? Do you know that I have been producing animals? I guess, I may as well show this sad looking blackhead since Jordans crew is on the rampage. I will also post a link for it as well as a few pics of my breeding/selling facilities. Reading can be misleading unless supported by facts. Seeing is believing. Please, again, testimonials from BASHERS should be first hand stories not here-say. P.S. Sales have been quite high with all of this publicity. Most everyone who buys from me is a seasoned herper & not a "newbie" as Yasser claims. My phone has been ringing off the hook from repeat customers laughing at this nonsense! Thanks everyone for putting up with this never-ending saga. Maybe someday, there will be a forum that actually screens the truth & keeps the lies out. I hope that my post of pics will end this discussion. See you all at Daytona! >>>>>>RARE NEW ADS GO UP TOMORROW!!! |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6609.html Posted At 19:36:29 07/31/2001 You may wish to check your phone connection. I have gotten over 75 emails the past few days, none from you, not one phone call. Please post the photos of the black head I will see if I still have the photos I emailed you on a disk somewhere to show people what you saw BEFORE you recieved it, also that you could have and STILL can return for the animals you sent me, if it was really that bad. Take care, Jordan |
| Bobby Pruett |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6625.html Posted At 22:57:55 07/31/2001 Ive never had any deals with Jordan,but I did get an AWSOME pair of CB Manderine Phase Madagascar Tree Boas from Steve last year. My 2 Cents |
| Jordan Russell |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6662.html Posted At 16:50:34 08/01/2001 Ps: Steve, whoever this J.W. is have him email me, I only owe one person money right now and that is something between me and them. He is a friend of mine, whoever this other person is please let me know what I allegedly owe, unless you are just making things up in an attempt to slander me. Jordan |
| Steve Raymond |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6678.html Posted At 21:42:58 08/01/2001 Everyone, I spoke with Jordan today & we came to a mutual agreement. This industry is a small world & both of us do want to get along. So, if there are any more concerns anyone, please email me. I will not be frequenting this forum. Thanks Jordan & everyone! Steve |
| West Side Reptiles |
Rare Reptiles is Great!
6724.html Posted At 19:24:35 08/02/2001 Steve is a GREAT MAN! He is very nice! I bought 1.1 African Tiger Geckos from him. They were sent perfectly healthy! Jorden |
| Matt Ozsvath |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
6872.html Posted At 18:38:09 08/06/2001 I recently also have had a very positive experience dealing with Steve Raymond. I traded a large quantity of misc. Geckos for a beautiful pair of Ant Hill Pythons. I only expected to get 1.1 normal Ant Hills, but instead the female has a very unique abberant marking on her which could of easily made her worth more money. Steve told me about the mark as a bonus after we had already set the deal, so he was under no obligation to give me this special snake. He didn't talk it up either just told me it was something a bit unusual that would make my breeding project more exciting and that it didn't effect the cost of the snake to me. Well he was right, she is really awesome and both are doing great! He agreed for us both to ship at the same time and did just that. He was very curtious to me and was easy to get a hold of and always returned my calls. I'd do business with Steve again in a second. |
| Josh Wolfe |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
7995.html Posted At 15:40:14 08/22/2001 Hi Jordan, I am the J.W. that Steve was talking about. Yes I thought we were friends but now I'm not so sure. I have called and e-mailed you several times about the pair of Jungle Carpet pythons that you owe me. Why will you not reply??? It has been 4 months and I think that is way more than enough time to ship my snakes. E-mail me or call me and in will end here. I am not hard to deal with and I know that I have been more than fair to you. |
| Jon Johnson |
Re: Steve Raymond @ Rare Reptiles (Bad Guy.)
9102.html Posted At 21:39:10 09/15/2001 Steve is a good man! I have made many many transactions with Steve all of wich I was very happy with! Anytime I had any questions or concerns regarding any of the reptiles I purchased from Steve he was quick to respond! He is one of the best business men i have ever experienced. His customer service is amazing! He came to my house at one point to help me with an impacted reptile! I just cant beleive all the things I have read. I'm sorry everybody feels the way they do. |