| Author | Subject: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT! |
| Krystalline | Posted At 02:04:25 07/31/2001
I had talked via email with a guy using the above name and email address about a Black Mex Kingsnake he claimed to be sellng; after many emails, I sent a check for $75-and never heard from him again. I suppose I should have been suspicious when he claimed not be able to send pics when his camera was supposedely 'stolen at the airport', but I'm stupidly naive sometimes and, I guess, trust way too easily. I offered condolences at his loss and got suckered in the process-now *that* hurts!! Ouch! Kristina Holoun-Field [email protected] Carnation, WA |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6574.html Posted At 09:05:34 07/31/2001 This forum never ceases to amaze me! Krystilline, I guess you should be glad it was only $ 75.00. Had you felt even more sorry for the loss of his supposedly camera , Iam surprised you did not send him a donation as well! |
| robin day |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6600.html Posted At 17:06:16 07/31/2001 Krystal, i know Clay very well. I have been doing business with him for years and through that we have become friends. Never have i had a bad deal with him ever. Sometimes things happen that are out of our control... and i am sure thats the case. He honestly is a good guy to deal with. before bashing him and attempting to defame his character ..wait to hear from him instead of jumping the gun. I do like this forum alot. it is very informative however i do not think folks use common sense and tend to jump the gun alot. Not only do we need report bad deals gone wrong but the good ones as well and if something does get confused take responsibilities for our own actions and act adult in manner. robin |
| Vincent Rea |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6608.html Posted At 19:32:48 07/31/2001 Doesn't sound like she jumped the gun to me. She sent the money and what do you know she never hears from him. Sounds like she got riped off to me Maybe you should wait before defending someone who has ripped someone off, don't ya think. Vincent Rea |
| robin |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6611.html Posted At 20:46:47 07/31/2001 you have your opinion and thats fine.just wait ...... we shall see how goes. |
| Ian Dungan |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6614.html Posted At 21:06:53 07/31/2001 In business you cannot just "see how it goes". If the man intended to send the snake(or whatever) then he should have INFORMED her that there would be a delay. Delays DO happen, but it is the sellers DUTY to inform the purchaser of any and all complications/delays. Just my 2 cents, who knows maybe this time next year the snakes will show up. Hope you still live in the same house, Kristina. Good day to all, Ian Dungan |
| robin day |
blah
6615.html Posted At 21:20:52 07/31/2001 what about when e-mails go down and the buyer doesnt leave a phone number? come on stuff happens. i have already told clay this thread was up and he has tried contacting her via mail. He hasn't even recieved payment yet. so unless you know the whole story then butt out. |
| Tom Townsend |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6616.html Posted At 21:24:05 07/31/2001 75$ or 75 cents doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. If you were promised an animal for your money, the amount of money taken is not an issue, it is the betrayal of trust and loss of credibility that is what is at stake. I thought Jerry's comment was totally inappropriate. I am hoping to have baby Mexican Black Kings in the 2002 season. Keep my email address and contact me in the spring. If my adults produce, I'll send you a baby or two for the cost of the shipping (Kristina). Tom Townsend Blackwater Reptiles |
| Clay Harrison |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6631.html Posted At 02:18:47 08/01/2001 I would like to set the record straight. I have yet to recieve payment from this lady. My email went down last Tues on the 24 of July and was unable to retrieve any of my mail. I contacted everyone who I have recieved money from and rescheduled shipping etc. I have emailed her back twice now and she has not replied to either one. I sent her my phone number twice now to call and discuss it with me. That does not make me a scammer I even offered to ship the snake before payment had been recieved out of my pocket to make her happy but she will not respond to my emails. And as far as anticipating problems, maybe I should have kept a hard copy of all posts but I recieve dozens of inquiries a day on assorted animals and cannot possibly keep such and extended list because anyone in this business knows there and many lookers but few takers. I have not doen anything to upset this customer but she has decided to write this without any recourse on what could have actually happened to her money. Clay |
| Krystalline |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6636.html Posted At 05:59:09 08/01/2001 To truly 'set the matter straight', I had received *zero* emails from 'Clay' until I posted here, and then only once (tonight). That's when he offered to ship the snake 'without payment'. Tonight (actually LAST night-Tuesday, 7/31). I would be happy to submit my email logs should this ever come into contention. I had sent in thefirst place: 1. My phone numbers (work and home), 2. My street address, city, and state, 3. My full name, and 4. email address. Plus two additional emails from me asking, basically, 'what's going on? Haven't heard from you..oh, well, guess I'll have to trust you.' Yes, that makes me stupidly naive, but it sure as heck doesn't make me guilty of anything but that. I was excited about getting a Mex king. Still am, from someone. Hopefully. How could he have sent me two emails with his phone number (the ones he claims I didn't answer) if his server was down? After all, the first time I've heard from him after I mailed the check was tonight. So when did these supposed emails go out? And if I cared this much, and I had his number, why wouldn't I have called??? My whole desire was to get a kingsnake! Plus I had a check out there possibly being cashed/bleached/rewritten-for heaven's sake, of COURSE I would have called! Sheesh! The email I got was seriously vindictive (I've saved it in case I need to post it), accusing me of 'slander' and such. I *did* send the check, and had sent an email notifying him that I had done so (note: I *have* kept hard copies of all emails). The only thing Clay has done to 'upset this customer' (and how did he KNOW I was a customer unless we had sealed the deal?) was not to respond nor to ship until I posted here. To make me feel lke a big sucker, and for all I know, to make me one. As far as there being 'many lookers but few takers', why on God's green earth would I have sent a check, plus an email notifying that I had, if I wasn't going to "take"? Clay sent me an email after my asking if he had pictures of the snake (before committing to buying it) , and he said, "my camera got stolen at the airport-sorry!". I felt bad for him-having things stolen from you is a real violation of your space, and that's a horrible thing. And my trust (and still possibly, my money) has been stolen here (as well as an attempted theft of my honour-after all, I did *not* receive 'two emails' containing this man's number, and he knows it). We made a deal, I sent the money, I didn't hear from him for over a week after having exchanged daily emails before, I posted about it, and he magically shows up with excuses-none of which explain why he could read a forum post and not send an email to a buyer if his server was down. I have no reason to accuse anyone of anything-after all, I'm no breeder or seller, no competition. I was just trying to find a BMK. That's it. It was all about trying to buy a snake. Now I'm sitting here writing something I really don't want to because this guy is lying now, too-saying he sent me this info and somehow I'm at fault. He didn't send it, he didn't call me (and I HAD sent my number), I got no emails, and I have no kingsnake. What would any of you do/have done? I wrote him asking about what was happening-no answer. I got no call. I had sent the money. The first email I got stating that he was even going to acknowledge my existence since I mailed the check was late last night-about the time he posted here. That's it. That's the story as it is, and I thank all the people who have been kind enough to offer their support in the midst of this mess-you guys help keep me believeing in the good of human nature. Kristina |
| Krystalline |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6637.html Posted At 06:04:20 08/01/2001 For what it counts, I had always talked to 'Clay' as Kristina. My isosatori screenname has a tag name of Krystalline, and so my posts are seen under that name, but 'Clay' had always referred to me as Kristina. Funny-both the belated email tonight and 'Robin Day''s comments referred to me as 'Krystal'. Weird. |
| Jay A. Martin |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6638.html Posted At 06:33:46 08/01/2001 This should be a lesson to both buyer and seller. Anything can legitimately happen but both parties need to cover their own rears. Both buyer and seller should get at least one phone number - it's too easy to use email as an excuse and downed phone lines can be proven. I never make a deal without talking to the person on the phone at least once. Before assuming the seller has taken the money and ran, the buyer should check to see if the check was cashed or credit card debited. Then you have a real case. If after an extended period of time the check was sent and not cashed and you did not receive your animal(s), it's probably a good time to cancel the check. Things do happen and communication is key. There should be no misunderstandings. This is a two-way street. Dealers should know better but many don't. Buyers need to be proactive to avoid such pitfalls. My .02cents |
| robin day |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6651.html Posted At 12:20:13 08/01/2001 Krystal, the reason why i call ya that is because of your name you posted. whatever,i have seen the black mex milk in question,very pretty snake i might add. Clay did reply to your emails yesterday (his email was down from tues/wed til sunday night) and yes he did in those mails put his phone number. why do i know this? because he used my computer to e-mail you. In his e-mails yes he did ask you to retract the statements however he also said he would ship(as soon as you gave him all pertinant info) then without payment to satify you. when his email went down for those days, he lost everything on the server including any previous email you sent. If you would like to call me to verify i am who i say i am email me and i will give you my phone number. anywho i shall be going now -robin |
| Jason Thurber |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6688.html Posted At 23:20:59 08/01/2001 Thanks and $50 to Jerry Tresser for the most moronic post of the month. |
| Kristina Holoun-Field |
Enough abuse!
6690.html Posted At 03:12:52 08/02/2001 Everyone, Regarding this unfortunate situation, be it attempted ripoff or an extremely odd set of coincidences, my business (if that's what you can call it at this point) is with 'Clay', yet this Robin insists on posting with irritating commentary, including accusations that I hadn't left any contact info. That's garbage- verbal abuse- and since she insists on being antagonistic, I guess I'll have to post proof to the contrary. I retract nothing of what I said; it was honest and exactly what had happened.I want others to know what I have learned without having to suffer the same feelings, and I understand that this is what the BOI forum was created for. I have now received a civil email from the man, and while I appreciate that fact, the past has included some nastiness that I have to mull over and now decide what to do. Since that's my responsibility, I thank you all for your supportive emails, comments, and suggestions (as well as your very kind offers of BMK babies!!) and leave. I had offered to submit emails to support my statements, and I post three of them below. As far as calling this Robin and having her assure me that she's who she says she is, she could say that Mr. Harrison had a pink elephant in his back yard and I wouldn't give it any more or less credence than anything she has written so far, After all, I'd have about as much proof of its validity as of anything else written. Perhaps *she* should 'butt out' unless SHE knows the whole story. -and I've told him this same thing. He seems to want to amend the situation, and I'm willing to hear him out. I hope to be able to come back one day and post about a "good guy"! Thanks again for all of your support. Emails follow, with proof that I had sent info multiple times. Dear Clay, Sent out a check today; still need to know your method of shipping so as to prepare for accepting delivery. Getting an MO would have entailed a $3.50 charge (highway robbery!) so as I've had this account since 1990, went that way instead. Monday would be a good bet; my address is 10215 302nd Way NE, Carnation, WA 98014. Phone is home:425-844-9362, work 425-814-6156. Hope this finds you well and I look forward to hearing from you soon. Sincerely, Kristina Holoun-Field Clay, I would definitely be interested; your price sounds fair and as for shipping, I've always bought snakes from local breeders, so must trust your estimate (as well as the safety of same-again, never bought a snake 'long distance'). What are you feeding him, and how often (so as to stock up on feeders-I have a boa who will eat ANYTHING 5" and under and a baby hognose who I'm trying to wean off live pinkies but am unsuccessful as of yet-from what I hear, I'm lucky he's as big a 'hog' in his eating habits as he his, live or prekilled prey)? Do you have any pics you could share before I commit to buying him? He sounds like a dandy, and hopefully we have a deal. Let me know about the photos. Kristina Holoun-Field 425-844-9362/425-814-6156 [email protected] Clay, Haven't heard from you in a while-check has gone out and hopefully you'll get it soon and cash it...and send the King. I've never bought an animal over the 'Net before, so am trusting you and the system (ok, just trusting you ; ). Could you please email me and tell me what's going on, and what system you use to ship, please? Great article in Reptiles on shipping-though I found it a little biased. Did you read it? Ms. Thing (the boa) and baby hognose are doing great; both are hogs in their own right in terms of eating. I think I'm going to ditch the rat-breeding idea-it worked when Thing ate fuzzies, but now she needs bigger prey faster than my rats are reproducing (I'll bet this is a common refrain amongst herp keepers). Hope you're doing well, and also hope to hear from you soon. Sincerely, Kristina |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6691.html Posted At 06:39:54 08/02/2001 JASON, Ill take that $ 50.00 and I wish I had another $ 50.00 for all the people who send monies and run into the same problem over and over again. How many times and how much monies have to be lost before people learn. In this particular case, Kristina not only had some reservations, but sent the money anyway. No my fellow poster, Iam far from a moron, I happen to be an astute business man who has a substanitial business and believes that sometimes you have to shake people up a bit. I am sure Kristina just by her postings seems to be an honourable person, but it could have been financially worse for her. Right now she is out the money, kicking herself in the pants for being stupid enough to deal with a total stranger, and has received nothing in return for all the aggravation she has endured. .........And as for you JASON THURBER, you are the moron. If you feel that my post bothered you, you could have emailed me privately, but instead you decided to take it public. Although Kristinas mistake is a lesson to be learned, your offer of $ 50.00 for my posting was not generous enough, and if I think you are the fool that you probably are, it would be better to keep your mouth shut than to open it and leave no possible doubt! |
| Greg Riso |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6693.html Posted At 08:22:34 08/02/2001 To Jerry Tresser: Are you sure your real name isn't Joe Besser of Three Stooges fame? Not most people's favorite stooge I might add. When buying or selling anything over the Internet a certain level of trust is necessary otherwise there would be no business done at all. When dealing with unknown private parties there's unfortunately always an inherent risk involved. Just think if there were no criminals we wouldn't need keys to start our cars or have to lock our homes or businesses doors either. But don't blame honest people for the dishonest deeds of others! I prefer to trust and give the benefit of the doubt to my fellow man/woman rather than be a skeptic. |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6696.html Posted At 09:42:46 08/02/2001 GREG, I am a bit confused about your post. I dont understand what seems to be your complaint. My argument is very simple. Yes I agree with you their is a level of risk in any business transaction, but the internet requires a more dilligent approach to doing business. I think we both can agree that this forum would not exist had it not been for rip off artists taking good peoples monies. This is an on going enterprise, increasing on a daily basis. In the above post Kristina sent some monies and received nothing. If I read the post correctly, no email, no phone call, nothing. Do we have a problem here????? So, kindly explain with a little more clarity, what your problem is with my post! I will cheerfully respond. |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6697.html Posted At 09:45:08 08/02/2001 GREG, one other point of information, dont ever call or refer to me as a stooge again. I am no ones fool! |
| Jason Thurber |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6702.html Posted At 11:31:16 08/02/2001 "Well it proves one thing, Mr. Hooper. It proves that you wealthy college boys don't have the education enough to admit when you're wrong." - Quint Jaws 1975 Even though I don't beleive you to be wealthy or college educated, I posted this for you, Jerry. |
| Lucy Howard |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6704.html Posted At 12:22:38 08/02/2001 well, first of all I know neither party involved personally or in any way. But it seems nobody that posted here does, aside from Robin who knows Clay. Well, I do know Robin, however, and I do trust her judgement. She says she has known Clay for several years, and that tells me she can judge him better then any others in here... Robin is a VERY nice person, very down to earth and definetaly a no-nonsense person. Also it seems to me after reading every post, that Kristina or Krystal is the more abusive and aggressive one... But after all, she got ripped off, right? Well, that is the part, that after reading all the posts I just don't get... Clay had NOT received the check as of her posting here.... So how does that classifie her as ripped off???? The money is still in her account? How is that scammend? If she was worried that he is lying, and had cashed her check and just not sent the snake, well, one call to her bank would have cleared that up...If the check had not been cashed, then the money was still in her possession. If she was worried about getting ripped off at that point, well, put a stop payment on that check! I can understand her being worried about never hearing from him again, having sent a check and all that. But before I call someone a LIAR, a CHEAT, and basically a THIEF, I make sure, to check, if that money had indeed changed hands. After reading all these posts, it still seems like the check has not been received OR (in case you think he is lying about that) even been cashed. Emails do go down, happend to me twice last two weeks. Yes, he didn't print out her emails, and therefore did NOT have her phonenumber to call... Her posting the emails she sent him, proving she did put her number in, still doesn't change the fact, that if his email was down, HE COULDN"T READ THEM! He was now prepared to mail the snake without having received the payment, but thats not good enough, because he dared to be angry about her dragging his name through the mudd, before he had a chance to make good on it. I guess my main point here is, that everybody seems think Krystal got ripped off. They say, her money is gone, but no snake. BUT her money was not gone, the check was NOT cashed, the money is in HER checkbook!!!!!! If that was not the case, correct me if I'm wrong. If i pay for a snake with a check, and the check does not get there in time...so my snake is not mailed to me yet, should I trash the seller? expect him to send without him having a check? I see her point in saying, she hadn't heard from him again...that would have worried me too,and a lot. But as long as that check hadn't cleared, I wouldn't go around, calling the seller a ripoff and thief. This is just my observation, after reading all the posts. If I'm wrong about any actual FACTS, like the check had been cashed before she posted, then I'm sorry. Lucy |
| Greg Riso |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6705.html Posted At 12:22:54 08/02/2001 Jerry, my point very simply is there's never a way to be certain who you're dealing with and in Kristina's case I think she was not at fault to expect something she sent payment for simply because the seller did not have a pic. I placed an ad at Kingsnake just a few days ago and mentioned I had no picture available of the Albino Burm I was selling. Within 20 minutes it was sold and I can assure you the purchaser will be happy with their animal or I will gladly refund their money. They bought it sight unseen. Not everybody is out to rip people off and I agree with you we need to weed the scam artists out to keep this business and hobby alive. This message board provides an excellent service but by no means can you find out information about everyone out there. Every time I make a purchase from an unknown I put myself at risk but have been lucky so far. The nearest I've come to an unfortunate situation was dealing with "Jeremy". I think we all recognize that name by now. At the time of my dealing there was little to be known about him but now there's volumes so this board certainly helps! |
| Dawn Zielinski |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6706.html Posted At 12:24:27 08/02/2001 No, but you're awfully touchy. I thought college people.. and all those other smart people in the world were supposed to learn that simple rule KIDS can manage to go by "Sticks and Stones". These posts are starting to feel like my old days living with four PMS women at one time.. (chuckles) |
| Lucy Howard |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6708.html Posted At 12:29:55 08/02/2001 and as for her, saying she was worried because she had a check out there, that could have possibly been rewritten, bleached, etc, etc... Well, AGAIN if you get worried, call your bank, if its not cashed, put a stop payment on it... Or better yet, if you are so worried about mailing checks...SEND A MONEYORDER...as you said in a email to him, they cost money, yeah, but the 80 cents to $3 they can cost, should be worth your piece of mind, I would think. Not to mention that any seller should prefer those too, as a check can bounce...happend to me too... Lucy |
| Des Harmon |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6713.html Posted At 14:24:25 08/02/2001 No "theft" has happened unless money actually changes hands without receiving merchandise. I don't know Clay, or Kristina for that matter, but I think there's some serious overreacting going on. I would never be comfortable with deals conducted entirely via email. If I had been Clay, I would have had Kristina's phone number just so that I could be sure that she was a real person who had some knowledge about snakes. Sending my valuable livestock to someone with whom I've never spoken to in real time would freak me out. Then again, I'm really paranoid. The fact that email can go down (yes, it's happened to me too) is enough for me to print out/write/whatever addresses and phone numbers. Okay. Clay should have done that. He probably will from here on, if just out of aggravation. Now we've got Kristina. She's sent out a check in good faith and sees no snakes and hears nothing. That would piss me off as well. Before I went about posting "rip-off alerts," however, I would go to my bank and see if any money had actually been withdrawn. Your bank statement will tell you which checks have been cashed and for how much. A quick call to the bank will let you know the same thing. What do you do now? Well, assuming that Clay isn't lying and that no check has yet been cashed, go to the bank and stop payment on the missing check! That way, Clay can't cash it and skip out on the snakes if that's what he was intending, and no one else can cash it if it got lost or stolen in the mail. That's part of the advantage of paying for things via check. You can do those sorts of things. Since no snakes have been sent (?), the deal can go away, or other shipping/payment arrangements can be made. I guess I wouldn't be moved to comment on this matter if Kristina had simply posted what happened under a less inflammatory heading. "Possible bad guy", "Possible rip-off", "WTF is going on?!", anything like that would have been okay. It would have let the rest of us know that Clay's shipping arrangements may have problems and it would have given Clay a last chance to defend himself and make the deal right without feeling defensive about his reputation. There are too many real and scary "bad guys" out there that this board should be warning us against. I think if Clay had been one of those, your check would've been long cashed and spent by now. I hope this deal is made right. Neither Clay nor Kristina sound heinous, and I hope they can come to agreement. |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6715.html Posted At 14:40:10 08/02/2001 GREG, I have no difficulty in anything that you just posted, but my irritation here deals with knowing in advance that their may be a potential problem and still willing to have your head cut off. If we were dealing with children and you tell them that touching the fire will burn you, and cause pain, the child who touches that fire is a foolish person. But children have to learn that way sometimes. Here we have an adult who admitted that their was a potential for a problem before it even occured, and knowing full well that everyday theirs are posts on schemers, she goes ahead and sends monies. Now Iam not calling Kristina stupid, but her actions certainly were. The end result is what you see here. I dont know where the truth lies between these two adverseries, but some Policy when dealing with strangers should be in force. Some Terms of Agreement should be in force, and some form of Limited liability should be inforced. The amount of monies is not a consideration, but understanding how to protect ones own iterest is. Loosing $ 75.00 is just as painful as loosing $ 7,500. In your particular case you were the seller, and the seller always has the advantage, but you seem to be an honest person to deal with, others are not, and after seeing repeated posts concerning the loss of monies by these midnight mauraders, Kristina who by her very own admission had reservations and yet decided to put her hand int fire and get burned. Respectfully, Jerry |
| Kristina Holoun-Field |
Resolution?
6727.html Posted At 22:44:13 08/02/2001 ...to let this die gracefully, wouldn't it? Everyone, 1. Yes, I should have sent a money order. My fault on that one. Although it could have been cashed even more easily with less traceability, correct? Registered mail-now THAT would have been wise. I regret not having had the foresight to use registered mail. 2. The check was cashed (according to my bank representative on Friday, July 27th (after midnight, when everything is updated.).So the money is *not* in my account. It took a couple of days to verify the check number, bank it was cashed through, order a copy of the cancelled check, etc.; that is why I did not say flat out that Clay had deposited it. That would not have been fair. And scream as some may, I have always been fair. 3. I have reread all of my posts, and find nothing aggressive nor abusive. The heading may have been inflammatory; if so, I apologize for that. But I did submit contact info (proven by emails), which I was accused of not having provided; then, I was accused of *not* returning emails (which I most certainly did, again, proof provided.) I can back up any statement I make here, unlike some. 4. I have called no one any names, nor stooped to profanity. I posted what had happened to me, and though I attempted to leave it there, two separate posters-each claiming some relationship to the 'seller', albeit second hand- have come forward to throw out pretty inflammatory emails that have each included misinformation. Dogged realist that I am, I am duty-bound to trudge back and try to explain yet a bit more clearly, so as to hopefully prevent the next flare-up. But it's exhausting. Please: 1. I sent info and numerous emails, many of which (some including contact info) were received before Clay's email went down; 2. I sent a check, which now appears to have been cashed a few days after I sent it (by whom, I cannot absolutely say yet), and heard nothing; 3. I posted a factual if inflammatorily-headed article here on the Forum; 4. Clay (the next day) got a hold of me with a very angry and insulting email, and 'Robin' posted here with interesting statements, including that he had access to her computer and email, and that I had left no contact info (which I've proven that I had); 5. I wrote him back (as I have always done, BTW) , explaining my position, and he said that his email had been down, and that's why I had heard nothing-I decided to hear him out, as he apologized for the first email and seemed ready to make amends; 6. I posted here that the business was now between he and I and that while some inaccuracies remained, I felt it was MY responsibility now, not everyone else's, to decipher-so I was leaving; and then, 7. In an email, someone mentioned some bashing going on, so I come back, and what do you know? Now it's 'Lucy' making assumptions about my character while accusing me of same- and I'm just too tired to go through it any more. I know what I did, said, and intended. I know I mailed a check, heard nothng, was accused of doing things I shouldn't-and of not doing things I had. My check is cashed. I have no snake. A friend says that Clay had access to her computer (with an obviously valid email account), but he chose not to use it to contact me. I had sent contact info. If he didn't print it out, that's not my fault. I had not received a phone number from him-and that WAS my fault-I should have insisted on that. I already feel naive enough-I don't need any help...although folks are right, it could have been worse. Quasi-histrionic postings hold little sway for me; Robin defends Clay, Lucy defends Robin, everyone types in CAPS about DRAMA and EXTREMES-and nothing posted comes from anyone with all the info. Ladies, you aren't doing anyone any favours with the shouting. Mature people are discussing issues, I'm talking with Clay; something valuable may yet be gained here. Hopefully it will be that I can post that this man is a 'good guy' and we'll both be wiser-and I've already gained a lot of respect for individuals who have posted here and/or written me: we're all part of a larger society with a common nterest, and it strkes me we'd have a heck of a lot more to gain from pulling together than stroking our own egos at the expense of understanding. (Ths doesn't apply to everyone who has posted here, of course.) Kristina Holoun-Field |
| Tom Townsend |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6731.html Posted At 01:47:58 08/03/2001 I'm very interested in seeing what Robin and Lucy have to say in defense of Clay now that the cheque has been cashed. I'm also interested in knowing why you have no snake, since Clay offered to send it "even though the money hasnt arrived" and now in light of the added information that there has (apparently) been an exchange of funds. I also do not buy it that this is all Kristina's "fault" for not having sent a money order. I accept cheques all the time and don't keep the money without sending merchandise or the animals promised, so I fail to see how trusting someone to hold up their end of a contract constitutes stupidity on the part of the buyer. Honest people are honest people and dishonest people will always make it harder on the rest of us to conduct business without unneeded amounts of safeguards placed on what should be a simple transaction. My grandmother always told me that locks are for keeping honest people out, and that a theif would get into just about anything, locked or not. So honest people will continue to have to jump through all sorts of hoops to conduct business, wil ever increasing levels of nonsense to try to give a buyer a sense of security when in fact the unfortunate reality of it is that those that choose to give the rest of us a black eye operate with impunity. I think it's time for Kristina to get her snake or a refund. Either way, this dialogue has been enlightening. |
| Clay Harrison |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6732.html Posted At 03:05:41 08/03/2001 Dear Tom, Thank you for your last post, I would like to say that I just recieved the check today, it was written on the 20th and was postmarked on the 25 in Seattle, and it is now the 3rd and am recieving it. I have passed this info on to Kristina who will talk to her bank in the morning I suppose. If you are so unbiased as you claim to be, you seem to jump to many conclusions based on something you are not involved in. |
| Karen Pallulat |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6734.html Posted At 07:39:04 08/03/2001 Hey Clay, You must have really "GREAT" mail service for them to deliver mail so early in the morning. :) It looks like your post was made at 3:05 am. Glad the check arrived. Now send the snake. :) |
| Lucy |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6740.html Posted At 11:10:10 08/03/2001 Dear Tom, what I have to say now, if following... she NEVER not till yesterday said the check was cashed...i think that was a very important fact she left out, for whatever reason. THAT is why I couldn't believe everybody was so quick to call Clay a RIPOFF. As to the check, all I said is if she is so worried about sending checks, as she has said, THEN she should send a moneyorder for her own peace of mind. I don't know Clay, I know Robing though. You don't know anyone, and you jumped to conclusions before any facts have even been established. As to what I have to say now that the check has cashed earlier? I said the whole time that I thought it was out of ling to call someone a ripoff IF no money has been exchanged...."IF"!!!! Since she left that sort of important fact out. ALSO, looks like it is her word against his. It could still be that either one is lying OR that there have been some weird circumstances, as to someone else cashing it (i doubt that), either way, it is both words against each other right now, and who are you to say whos right or wrong. In this country, I believe, it is innocent UNTIL proven guilty. And I never said Krystall was guilty, all I said is that I don't think someone should be called a Ripoff until the money has been taken without sending the goods. THATS IT If you are such a fair and honest man, how can you just jump to conclusions? Do you have a magic ball you can gaze into and see the truth? It can be proven when and by who a check has been cashed. Someone here is lying, and until is has been proven WHO, I won't call either one a ripoff. That has been the whole point of my post, that you shouldn't judge until all the facts are out, at the time, he has been trashed, it hasn't even been established, that the check had been cashed. Also funny that noone else has come forth, that has had bad dealings with Clay...usually the crooks and ripoffs are at it again and again. I know that doesn't prove anything, but just struck me as odd. I am sure you are a honest and truthfull dealer, so for that I respect you.... But I just hope you realize how fast your hard work can be damaged or destroyed, through someone jumping the gun, and circumstances out of your control. Not saying thats what happend here, just made me see how easily that could happen. Lucy |
| Tom Townsend (Blackwater Reptiles) |
For Clay (long, and I promise to stop now)
6741.html Posted At 11:33:12 08/03/2001 It is good to see that you, Clay, have decided to address some of the issues regarding this incident. It is unfortunate that your absense and subsequent proxy responses cast a light of doubt on your side of the issue, but that is why (in America at least) the defendent is allowed to be present at a trial. Without both sides of any issue represented, one can only develope a bias toward the information provided. After reading Kristina's post, where she stated that her the cheque was posted against her account on July 27th, it seems unlikely that you received the cheque today and still managed to get the money from her account on the 27th July. I recall that you offered to send the animal to her (several days ago) right here on this very forum and as of yet it appears that you have not done so, even though Kristina posted her address, telephone number and other (email) vital stats for eveyone to read. Instead of addressing the real issue here (the way I see it you owe her a snake or her money back) you choose instead to tell me to buzz off, much like your cheering section has told others that they should butt out. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps I should have kept my fingers off the keyboard. There are many questions that seem to go unanswered here, not least of which is why this thread had to exist in the first place. I don't know you. I have never done business with you, and after the way you fail to respond to your customers, I have no intention of doing any business with you. I have nothing against you particularly, but it seems that you are not very proactive in your business dealings, and instead seem to blame your customer first instead of accepting the responsibility for your own failings. Your own supporters detract from any professional sense of conduct when they tell others to "butt out." This became public domain when it appeared on the message board. If you are concerned about the opinions of others, perhaps you could take a lesson learned from this experience and write down your customer phone numbers and contact information in the future. When I sell something, I make out a receipt (invoice in trades) and I include the buyer/seller in my email address book, complete with every bit of information that that person is willing to give up about themselves. If you are an honest man, the truth will surface in the end. Remember, the customer is always right, so I have to side with the evidence that makes the most sense to me based on a logical examination of that evidence. So far, your story doesn't add up when compared to the story of your customer. I posted orignally because someone roasted Kristina for trusting another human being enough to send 75$ through the mail for a snake that she wanted to buy. I posted because the individual said she was a dope (not in so many words mind you) and maybe she should offer to buy you a new digital camera too, since yours was stolen or broken or whatever it was. I posted because I have trusted others in the past and have had to fight in order to set bad deals straight or to get money from people who refuse to pay for animals they promised to pay for. I posted because I finally got fed up with people thinking it is okay to take from others. I posted because I am sick and tired of people selling sick and dying snakes and lizards just for profit. I posted because most of these people would be just as happy selling used cars or dope and I wish to God they would look up a new career doing just that. I posted because I am disgusted that someone else would mock Kristina for having the NERVE to trust another human being. I ask you if you've ever been betrayed. I'm asking you if YOU know how it feels. I asking you, or anyone out there who MIGHT be taking from others to think about what you are doing. Think about how it feels to be betrayed. Think about how it feels to be expecting something new and exciting in your collection only to find out that your money and animal(s) are gone with no trace. That's what this is about. Send Kristina her snake or her money back (now that you at least admit to having the cheque in hand). It's really simple. Plenty of money can be made the honest way, working with animals, that I can't see why anyone would want to short-cut to try to make money without EARNING it. Be one of the good guys. It feels good to have someone thank you for what you've done, if you have a conscience. |
| Karen Pallulat |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6742.html Posted At 11:43:46 08/03/2001 Lucy, You mean you don't find it "strange" that Clay has such good mail service. He posted he received the check only after Kristina posted it had been cashed on the 27th of last month. His post saying he received the check was posted at 3:05. Depending on where he lives that means his mail service delivered the mail before 4:00 am "if" he lives on the east coast. It would have been delivered before 1:00 am "if" he lives on the west coast, and you get the idea. My mail service isn't that good. LOL. I don't get mail till noon. Now if you "assume" Clay is telling the truth that means that Kristina's bank made a mistake and the check wasn't really cashed. On the other hand Kristina didn't jump to conclusions and say right off the check was cashed. She waited until she had confirmation from her bank and then she posted the check had been cashed. I'd don't want to call Clay a liar, because I'm sure he's had many deals that went well. On the other hand I have to believe Kristina is telling the truth here. I'm sure if the bank made a mistake and the check wasn't actually cashed she will say so. After all it would have been the "bank's" mistake and not hers. I just don't think the mail service is that good and I've never heard of anyone getting mail soooooooooo early. Overall it makes it hard to believe. Just my thoughts, Karen |
| Lucy Howard |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6743.html Posted At 12:09:56 08/03/2001 Karen, yes, it would've been strange if the mail got there at 3 am. At the same time , when he typed that he prob. meant it got there TODAY...(earlier the day as he was typing it) but technically it was the 3rd, which is what he then typed out... I don't know the truth here, neither do you. Hopefully we will sometime. All I ever said, was that noone should be called a ripoff , before it has been established, that that is the case. And people were calling him that , BEFORE she posted about the cashed check. That was my point. This whole thing sounds weird, and all i can say is, that it can be proved by the bank WHEN and WHERE and by WHOM a check has been cashed. Once that is known, i guess we will know... right now, I won't call either one a liar. I am NOT taking sides here, if you read my original post it said, that "IF" the check had been cashed, and at that time she didn't say whether it was or not, then I was sorry!!! But it is still her word against his, and still, I won't call either one a ripoff, until the truth has been established. Lucy |
| Karen |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6746.html Posted At 12:50:19 08/03/2001 You know what?? I'm waiting for the post that says, "It arrived!! It's beautiful and healthy!!" Now that's what I want to hear. :) Karen |
| Lucy Howard |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6747.html Posted At 13:00:44 08/03/2001 same here...:) Lucy |
| Terri Langley |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6748.html Posted At 14:00:54 08/03/2001 Dear Tom, You sound like a hell of a guy. If anybody out there is unsure of what to do next maybe they should check with him. Its looks like he is the only person on here with morals.I would also like to say, it seems to me that Jerry alway has something to say, and its usally (in my opinion)something that was better off left unsaid. Terri Langley |
| Kristina Holoun-Field |
That's what I want to post!
6749.html Posted At 14:14:07 08/03/2001 That a beautiful, healthy snake arrived. I want to say that everything has been satisfactorily resolved. I may be able to yet! Kristina |
| Dennis Gulla |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6750.html Posted At 14:33:50 08/03/2001 All I have to add to this thread.....Tom, EXCELLENT post, you said it better then I could have. Terri Langley......you said a mouth full!!! I agree 100%!! Dennis |
| Tom Townsend (Blackwater Reptiles) |
Query
6950.html Posted At 15:14:17 08/07/2001 I'm wondering if there has been any resolution here? Kristina? Clay? Anyone??? |
| Kristina Holoun-Field |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
6979.html Posted At 01:33:16 08/08/2001 Kristina here...still snakeless. Clay said that he had to go out of town last weekend, and didn't mail the snake before he did. I don't know why., but perhaps he had his reasons. He said to resend my address and 'he(the snake) will be there' in the morning. Well, I did, and he wasn't, but Clay said don't worry; it might be late Sunday night before he got back to reply. OK, then I got an email asking again for my address, so sent it again. Then he emailed saying that maybe he should mail the snake to my workplace so as to assure that there would be a recipient for the package. Then he had to 'check with the post office about mailing to (me).' I have no idea what he had to check about. The amount paid-$75 -was $50 for the snake and $25 for shipping. I have asked a couple of times what method of shipping he uses, but I still haven't heard. OK-sent the work address. Next came an email saying that he had 'just gotten (my) email-I'm already at work; maybe my brother can mail the snake today'. If so, he was to send me a tracking number. If not, he said he'd ship 'first thing in the morning'. Either way, he said, "Talk to you tonight". No email tonight-yet. I don't know when he gets off work, so cannot rule out his writing tonight. Especially if I post here. I am really getting frustrated with so many delays-day by day by day-especially when such a big deal was made about how he would ship "without payment". Good news? He's in contact and sending emails and not being rude or vindictive. Bad news? Still no snake, no definite ship date that hasn't been amended or excused or just not honoured....I still don't know what shipping method to expect. I'm getting a bad feeling again- days are slipping by and the situation drags on. Please let it be resolved!!!! |
| Patrick Hughett @ North Texas Reptiles |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
7035.html Posted At 05:09:46 08/09/2001 Jerry T., I hate seeing your posts. You act like you know all, and can see all in the future, and you think everyone should be like you! You are an idiot thinking that way. You have to understand that everyone in this world is different. Some people don't like what you like, some people like what you don't like, and believe it or not, some people are more trusting than others! You are making it sound like Kristina is stupid, or a bad person for trusting someone! I have talked to Kristina many, many times and I think she is a great person! Your posts piss me off! Imagine this: I do a deal with someone that I haven't done business with before...I send money in advance...I receive an e-mail the next day after they receive payment, only to hear that something came up and they couldn't ship out the day they said. Q: Should I cancel my check right then and there...assuming I sent a check? Just because something came up that may have sounded fishy? Well...Something similar happened to me when I did a deal with Kris from Bluegrass Herps. I did, however, get my animals and they were great! Sometimes things happen beyond people's control...Do you think that's all the reason in the world to stop everything and start over? I don't care how much "business experience" you have. You were just a flat out a** hole to Kristina, just for her trusting someone. It's people like you that make people not trust each other and makes everyone in the world seem just a little worse each day! Sincerely, Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| Patrick Hughett @ North Texas Reptiles |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
7036.html Posted At 05:34:34 08/09/2001 And another thing... Since you are so perfect, Mr. Businessman...Are you going to try to sit there at your computer and tell the rest of us that you have never been taken advantage of by anyone, or conned into anything that you didn't see coming...nobody has ever pulled the wool over your eyes? If you even try to say it's never happened to you, I would have to call you a liar to your face! So, if you have been taken advantage of in your lifetime, even if it was only once (lol), then why must you put others down for it? I believe that if this forum wasn't here, you wouldn't have anything to do, or anyone to make fun of or to put down. I mean, why don't we just call the forum "Board of Stupidity"..."Tell us all how stupid you were to get taken as badly as you did!" Or, why don't we call it "Board of Good Guys", because if you post one of a bad guy, you will be put down and called stupid by good 'ole Jerry! You are rediculous Jerry, and I think you should apologize to Kristina, as that could happen to anyone! Thanks Again, Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| Karen Pallulat |
Re: 'Clay Harrison'/[email protected] ALERT!
7089.html Posted At 15:59:19 08/10/2001 Hey Kristina, Has your deal with Clay been resolved yet? I'm hoping it has, but at the same time I think you would have posted if it had. I really hope things turn out alright. I know I'll never buy anything from Clay. He's taken much too long to take care of business "after" he said the check arrived. Please let us all know "when" and "if" it gets resolved. Take care, Karen |
| Krstina Holoun-Field |
RESOLUTION-AT LAST!!!!!
7116.html Posted At 22:46:13 08/10/2001 At 11 this morning, a co-worker signed for a package I'd been expecting for quite some time. In it was...::tension builds::.......a BLACK MEXICAN KINGSNAKE! YES! This whole scenario has been like something out of fellow Antiochian Rod Serling's old series-"The Twilight Zone"-but I am here to say that I am now in posession of what looks to be a healthy little BMK. Clay mailed him on 8/8 at 1400, and he arrived at 1100 on 8/10. I had called the Kirkland Post Office, but they didn't have any packages slated for my work address last night. Anyhoo. FTIW, this snake does *not* look to have been abused -not a mark on him. He's nosing about in his new home right now...he's been in a box for two days. : ( But he looks none the worse for wear, and he's loving all the space he has to stretch out in now! Brand new 'Habba Hut'...sand-blasted and sterilized grape to climb on...sheet of slate to bask on...rock pool to dip in...and, on Sunday or Monday, when I hope he's acclimatized enough, some freshly frozen (to be thawed, OC) rat pups to eat. Clay has emailed me feeding and shed info for the last couple of weeks, and I appreciate that. It's been a very long month (or nearly a month, anyway). I thank this forum and its participants for the service you provide and the individuals you represent. I have learned a lot about what-and what not-to do regarding business over the 'Net; met all kinds of people (good and bad experiences there-mostly good!), and gotten a much more accurate perspective on who and what is./are out there and how to responsibly and effectively go after what you want to achieve. That information is worth the money and time spent-(if not the aggravation-some of that was unnecessary!)-and if it can also inform others, so much the better. This deal is now done; Clay has his money, I have a great looking, apparently healthy BMK, I want to let all the remarkably curious 'concidences' go, and -hey!- it's the weekend. I hope everyone has a good one and again, thanks to all of you for the advice/support/chastisement given: it all served a purpose. Sincerely, Kristina Holoun-Field [email protected] Carnation, WA 425-844-9362 |
| Tom Townsend (Blackwater Reptiles) |
Good news!
7270.html Posted At 08:01:54 08/13/2001 Kristina, It is good to hear that you finally received your animal. Thank you for being considerate enough to post that there has been resolution. I think that your experience with internet sales has been a pretty difficult lesson in dealing with sellers, but I hope it won't sour you for future purchases. There are plenty of good people to buy from and *maybe* you just caught Clay on his worst day. I hope that is the case. Tom |