| Author | Subject: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai |
| Jerry Tubbs | Posted At 21:15:11 08/10/2001
How would all you guys handle this situation? I sent the wrong snake to Franklin Edwards III .He was to receive 2 het albino corns.I was out of them and asked him if he wanted his money back or 2 albino het snows. He opted for the albino het snows.I sent some packages out that day and I got 2 labelled to the wrong person. They was Franklin Edwards and Don from coldbloodedcritters. Well Frank got the woma and Don got the corns.Don called me and I told him I would get it worked out with Frank to just ship to each other.Don is at a show this weekend so I told Frank to just send it back to me . I told Franks wife not to open the package because it was not theirs and that it was labelled to the wrong party .I told them to send it back in the same box, the same day.She said Frank was at work and when he got home ,he would do it .Well Frank called and said it's too late tonight, but I WILL FIRST THING IN THE MORNING (WHICH WAS TODAY).Then after we hung up I got an email from frank this morning that said "Jerry, Unfortunatley i have some bad news, While i was taking a shower my kids got into the cage where the snake was and decided it needed to be free and threw it in the woods behind my house. I have six cats so i don't know if i'll see it again, i went into the woods looking for it and couldn't find it. I'm sorry for this, if it was my cornsnakes they would have been gone too. This whole thing has been a mess right from the beginning and i will think long and hard before i buy anything on line again. Frank Edwards So I sent an email telling him that he should compensate because I told him not to open the box, because I figured after he seen what it was he would say it was dead or got away or something ,just to keep it.(Maybe I am wrong for thinking this?) I told him I would send the cops to his house in his area first ,then I would file charges with fbi online, then I would contact my attorney if he didn't do anything about it .Now maybe I jumped the gun about it , but I called the police and they went to his house. The officer called me back and said I told her to take it out of the box and feed it ? Now come on just about anybody knows NOT to feed a snake within the day they receive it .Anyway she told the policeman they would compensate for half of it since it was only half their fault.Now Frank says he isn't gonna compansate anything. So what I'm asking on this is, If this was you in this case would you go ahead and go to court with it (I figured I would since I'm getting ready to go over some other stuff). Or do you guys have any other options or opinions of what should be done ? Any and all responses would be appreciated. Thanks Jerry Tubbs |
| Tony Basica |
Damn thats a tuff one.
7105.html Posted At 21:24:34 08/10/2001 I see difficulties on both sides. Obviously you were responsible for the incorrect shipping. However the story about his kids sounds like complete B.S. why would his kids just decide to let the snake free outside, if he was purchasing snakes he obviously viewed them as a breeding project. If he hadn't already taught his children not to play with his snakes it is his fault. I do have to agree with you though that it sounds like they are keeping the snake as they know they got the good end of the deal. It is tricky and I'm not sure how the laws will work but since the property wasn't actually legally theirs there may be a law to help you with that. Basically I believe the burden of proof will be yours, but I would like to see them show the court the emailing where you tell them to take the snake out and feed it!!! I know you aren't that dense *LOL* As long as you have copies of what you stated to them I would think they will be held liable for replacement of the animal that was never legally theirs! Could also be a federal case since they did in theory open another persons mail although it was adressed to them...sounds like a lot of gray area to deal with. Good luck. Tony B. |
| Neil Gubitz - The Snake Pit - Tampa, FL |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7106.html Posted At 21:30:38 08/10/2001 Jerry, The way I see it, is UNLESS you have PROOF BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that there WAS a Woma in that box, you are SOL! I mean like a receipt that you have an ORIGINAL COPY of; a video of you putting in into the box (uneditted); or SOMETHING that is UNDISPUTABLE!!! It's your word against his??? You don't have a leg to stand on! Sorry, man...next time, just be more careful! Neil |
| joey smith |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7107.html Posted At 21:34:37 08/10/2001 personnaly i think that the guy still has the snakes. but how can you mix up sending a woma and a cornsnake? come on jerry.here you are once again, trying to take someone else to court because of your screw up. when will you learn to take responsibilities for your own actions? |
| JERRY TRESSER |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7108.html Posted At 21:38:40 08/10/2001 Maybe this should be on the Disney channel. But only in the Herp world could such a thing happen. Whether the receiver wanted or did not want the animals in question has nothing to do with the fact that these snakes were in his posession at the time. The fact that the box was opened or unopened is irrelevent. What is relevent is that the box was under his control. My suggestion would be to either consider this a bad dream and absorb the loss, or sue him for the value of the snakes. I am assuming their was an invoice. You certainly have proof of delivery. The resposibility lies with the receipient. |
| Jerry Tubbs |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7110.html Posted At 21:43:11 08/10/2001 Tony and Neil thanks for the input Tony,they WAS told NOT to open the box even though it had there name on it .They was told it was labelled wrong and was NOT theirs. The officer said and the attorney said since they was made aware of this some 4 hrs. before they received it they SHOULD NOT have opened it . Now if I would have told them after they received it then I would be SOL, but they was told at 9:50 am and the package didn't arrive untill 2:25pm. Neil, I'm glad you brought that point up. I infact had a witness that was video taping me play with the woma and showing how I packaged it and boxed it . It even has the date time and hr on the video . Thanks man good point for me to use. |
| Jerry Tubbs |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7111.html Posted At 22:03:08 08/10/2001 Joey, the way they got mixed up is simple as this I put the wrong airbill on the wrong box ,mistakes happen especially when your sending out alot of stuff at the same time . It was an honest mistake. Jerry, why should it be on the Disney Channel? It was a mistake that I made , that evidentally NOONE has ever made. So does this make me a kid or a whiner or something . I just asked opinions of what you would do if it happened to you guys. |
| Karen Pallulat |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7113.html Posted At 22:06:08 08/10/2001 I'd take them to court if they don't compensate you for the Woma. Once they opened the box it was their responsibility to take "reasonable care" for that snake's well being. Especially since you informed them of the mistake and told them not to open the box. If they had left the box unopened and just shipped it back, that would have been a different story. It could have died in the return shipment and it still wouldn't have been their fault. Once the box was opened the snake was their resonsibility, even though it wasn't their snake. I'm hoping you have pictures of the snake. You'll need them to prove you had it. A statment from the person who was supposed to get it will help too. You don't have to prove "beyond reasonable doubt". It's not a murder trial. LOL. You only have to show they were "neglegent". Which means they didn't take "reasonable care" to make sure the snake didn't escape. Obviously they didn't. Their children set it free. I'm sure if an expensive snake showed up at my house and I had to send it back, I'd sure have a lock on the cage. This snake got loose less than 24 hours of their receiving it. They were "neglegent!!" Take them to court. I'm betting you'll win. By the way if it were me that "lost" a snake that wasn't mine. I'd make compensation in full. Even if I had to make payments, but that's what I'd do. Good Luck, Karen :) |
| Neil Gubitz - The Snake Pit - Tampa, FL |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7115.html Posted At 22:41:31 08/10/2001 Karen....What do you mean it's NOT a Murder Case??? If it was MY snake...I'D KILL HIM!!! lol Jerry, If you do have the evidence you say you do??? I've got Two Words for you....YOU WIN!!! Sick em!! Put some Backwoods Kentucky Hillbilly on em! And give em a little NY ATTITUDE, too!! Sue their ASS OFF! YOU GO BOYYYYYYYY!! lol |
| ben siegel |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7127.html Posted At 06:55:13 08/11/2001 jerry your customers have commited no crime and best case scenario--this is a civil case. You will have to take them to court, and from what i have heard in this post--they will probably not be liable for the cost of the snake. Lets say for example you set that customer a cobra by accident---it would all be on you--what if his kid got bit by it and had thousands in medical bills---you would have a lawsuit on your hands that would make your head spin---now for instance lets say that this kid got bit by the woma, and had to be rushed to the hospital for stitches or to have a tooth removed from his finger---same thing--you would have been in big trouble--the guy ordered cornsnakes--i have a 4 ft woma that will bite and wrap anything that moves--any arm in front of it--just be glad you are not out a woma, and medical bills. It could definatley have been worse. pack your boxes one at a time so you don't get confused |
| Lee Ardern -www.leeardern.co.uk |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7130.html Posted At 07:41:33 08/11/2001 You had a guy film you pack the woma? But then between the pair of yourselves you couldn't manage to label the box properly. What sort of state is this hobby turning to when you have to film yourself packing the animals for future proof. I think since it was your mistake you should swallow the loss, I would. Also what did concern me was that you shipped the snakes to them fair enough but you then requested that they didn't open the box and send it back how long did you expect the animal to be in shipping. Surely as responsible keepers they should open the box to make sire the animal is all right? Should they have shipped the animal striaght back to you and it was dead would you have sued them then? Jerry I don't know you I don't even live in america, but even I can see you are in the wrong business you are dealing with live animals not stuffed toys a bit of respect please. I breed reptiles for a living all animals I ship are doubled checked before labelled and the species is written on the box instead of the label surely this is just common sence. Whether the other party stole the snake or not it was still a responsible thing to do by opening the box, surely the wealfare of the animals should come first not your profit or brokering fee. Just be thoughts Lee Ardern http://www.leeardern.co.uk |
| Karen Pallulat |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7133.html Posted At 08:14:36 08/11/2001 Rob is correct that no "crime" has been committed. Still their liability lies within "their neglegence". They were warned in "advance", before the package even arrived. Jerry's phone records will prove he called them before the snake arrived.(Jerry, if you go to court take the phone records too.) All they had to do was "not open the box and send it back!" Once the box was opened they were resonsible for the snake. Do you really think the box would have been opened "had" there been a venomous snake in it. No!! It wouldn't have!!(At least, I wouldn't have opened it.) The package probably would have been refused. Which is another option they could have had when the Woma arrived. You always have the right to refuse "any" package. I have a friend in California that had a simular problem with a bird shipment. They took the receipiants of the "wrong package" to Small Claims Court and won. I can't imangine that Kentucky laws are that much different. The thing is that Mr. Edwards had "advance notice" and never should have opened the box. His liability started once the box was opened. Until that time he could not of been held responsible, unless he kept the package for several days before sending it back. Of course, being the weekend is here he probably could have sent it back on Monday with no "liability". Mr Edwards didn't use "reasonable care" with the snake, and now it's gone. (I'm going by what Mr. Edwards said about the snake being true, I don't want to "assume" he's kept the snake.) It's not a crime, but now there is "liability" on his part. The best thing would be if Mr. Edwards could find the snake and send it back. I don't know what condition it would be in after "running free in the woods", but it would end his liability for the animal. He is liable until the snake is returned. Karen :) |
| scott cook |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7136.html Posted At 10:15:02 08/11/2001 This is just my view on this and maybe it is wrong. I have always been told if you receive something in the mail and you didn't order it it is yours to keep. I don't see legaly what you can get them for. This just seems to be a morale issue. Are the people you sent it to honest people? It seems they aren't. I think you are going to have to chalk this one up to a loss. They have not broken any laws as far as I am concerned. They have benefited by your error. But this is just my thoughts on this. |
| Jerry Tubbs |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7138.html Posted At 11:26:54 08/11/2001 Ben, I understand to a certain point where you're coming from ,but 1.They knew the package was not theirs to open. 2.I am not on here asking what if this or that happened, I'm on here telling what happened and asked opinions on it .If it was one of those cases ,Iwould beasking about it,but it's not .I don't even deal with hots and it was a 01 baby woma(not that that matters.)Thanksfor you input ,I appreciate any and all. Lee, It was being taped because I tape alot of snakes on a certain film we have.I never said it was a guy , it was my daughter.Itwasnot used for "future use",but it's a VERY good thing I had it done.If they would have shipped it right backto me I would have been responsible as they was told.That wpuld have been the end of it , but they didn't.They snake would have been in theire house ,not like it was in the sun or extreme heat or cold, so yes the snake would have been fine the way it was packaged.Furthermore, if I would have told them to open the box, then that would have been end of story, but as I mentioned to Ben ,I'm not doing ifs or examples here. Scott, If you receive something in the mail and you didn't order it and you wasCHARGED for it or was trying to be charged for it , YES it is yours and you owe NOTHING. Thediffrence here is the parties was notified in ADVANCE of receiving the package that it WASNOT theirs.Also they was not trying to be charged for it .It's only a little diffrence ,but it's aBIG diffrence. Okay people whyare you all busting my balls because of a mistake I made ,but tryed to clear it up quikly.And it wassettled with Frank, then all of a sudden the snake wasgone.He said he had been herping for 18 yrs.I mean comeon surely he would have known to put it in a secure place. Surely he would have told his kids 'DON'T TOUCH THIS SNAKE".Surely he could havenot opened the box likehe wasasked NOT TO. Surely he knows not to feed a snake stright out of the box , when his wife told the officer that's why they took it out of the box.Even so , if it would have been a cobra or rattlesnake or 20 foot retic, I bet they wouldn't have opened it up. This is ALLbesides the point(what I wrote he could have surley done)but there isalot of stuff he "could" have ,but "didn't " do.That's not the point. |
| Ritchie Luna |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7142.html Posted At 12:03:50 08/11/2001 Jerry. Yes it is your fault like everyone says.......but I bet they got curious to see what it was. Then upon realizing that it was not a corn, rather it was an expensive woma. he decided to keep it. the story about the kids finding it in the cage and setting it free is a story of convenience. How can they find it in the cage when they were told not to open it. The snake is long gone. It is probably at a relatives house or something. or maybe the whole story is true. Nothing else to do but to eat up the cost. and never deal with him again. How can he think about having snakes and uncontrolable kids. He needs to control his kids before trying to get a pet or whatever. Just sounds to me like he kept it. why else would he open it even after he was told not too. CURIOSITY AND GREED |
| John Apple |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7167.html Posted At 19:45:53 08/11/2001 Jerry Jerry You shipped the wrong snake [Its still beyond me how] There is no way That you will get reimbursed your word against thiers scare tactics might work but maybe not Apple |
| John Apple |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7168.html Posted At 19:45:59 08/11/2001 Jerry Jerry You shipped the wrong snake [Its still beyond me how] There is no way That you will get reimbursed your word against thiers scare tactics might work but maybe not Apple |
| Matt Butler |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7180.html Posted At 23:27:33 08/11/2001 Oh my god, i never respond to these, but this one has just twisted my arm. You sent a woma to the wrong person??? And, now you want it back??? lol, thats the funniest thing i've ever heard. I would say that you just gave away a nice woma, for the price of a couple corns, and there is not a thing you can do about it. And that story about his kids settin it free, oh my god, thats insanity at its best! Hats off to the moron that actually thought that story up. That story is a total joke, if someone were to say that to me, id take it as a stab at my intellect. Jerry, im truly sorry that happened, but you would be wasting time, money, and alot of energy trying to get compensation for that snake. Better luck next time! P.S A better question to ask this forum would be, "how many people here would actually return the woma, if it were sent to them?" |
| Patrick Hughett @ North Texas Reptiles |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7190.html Posted At 03:27:38 08/12/2001 Jerry, I would give up on this one and just move on. Does it sound like you're being lied to? ABSOLUTELY! He has the animal...There's no about it! Think about it. You sent him a Woma! He opened it! His kids let it go??? I tell you what...I'm an honest guy and like to keep a good reputation, and would have sent the snake back to you or to the right party, but think about the people who wouldn't do that? First of all, if I was the type of person to keep the snake and lie about it, I would at least make my e-mail sound a little more dramatic than he did about his kids setting it free!!! I would say something like, "My kids let the WOMA go, and I beat the shit out of them and sent them to their room for a month and wouldn't let them eat until they came back out!!" Listen to his e-mail! "I took a shower and the kids let it go. I'm sorry...if it were my corns, they would have been let go too."???? This is definitely a scam here, but there's nothing you can do about it. You sent it to them with their name on it...They opened it and that's that. They are owners of a brand new Woma now. Another thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is the fact of how you shipped it. I would assume you sent it to their door...which means you used a shipper that doesn't allow snakes. Now, if you tried to pursue this, first of all, you would lose, and second, you could get countersued for shipping a snake through a shipper that doesn't ship snakes! You could be in over your head moreso than just a lost woma. Just take it as a loss and move on and learn from your mistake(s). Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| Brian Conley |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7199.html Posted At 08:37:39 08/12/2001 WOW!! Talk about your monumental screw ups. Jerry look at the bright side; a lot of people are gonna be ordering corns (a.k.a. womas) from you from now on! |
| Lance Hartman |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7218.html Posted At 15:11:57 08/12/2001 Jerry, Have you ever thought about having a reality TV show with you as the star? There is just one big drama after another. Again, you may want to pursue other avenues. Good luck. Lance |
| Steve Schindler |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7236.html Posted At 20:29:48 08/12/2001 To answer your question Matt, an honest person would send the woma back. You might not (or you might, I don't know, I can't say, I don't know you) but I would. I would like to think that a good many people on this forum would as well. A good reputation is a premium in this business (or any business and to not return a snake that does not belong to you when the whole world (or at least those reading this forum) will know about it would be a major mistake. To be sure, Franklin Edwards III is on my don't deal with list, and I don't care if he gets 1000 people to vouch for him. then again, maybe I am just a little too optimistic when it comes to my fellow man. Optimistic untill they burn me that is, they only get one strike. Steve Schindler |
| Matt Butler |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7250.html Posted At 23:43:04 08/12/2001 Well Steve, to answer your question, NO WAY would i keep that snake. I am a FIRM believer that, what goes around, comes around! That guys obviously has the woma, no doubt about it, but if he had a brain, he would think about what he may have lost. I think he lost the oportunity to buy alot of nice snakes at great deals here on the board, and many people are gonna tell this guy to go F___k himself when he wants to buy something. I personally have never bought anything from Jerry, but have talked to him on occasion. I know he has some AWESOME deals on snakes. I would have returned the snake, and kept buying from him at those great prices. In the long run, this idiot really hurt himself for doing that to Jerry. I truly hope this man gets what he deserves! Thanks, Matt Butler. |
| Franklin E. Edwards III |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7252.html Posted At 00:30:17 08/13/2001 OK here's the story from me. July 20th sent payment for corns to jerry tubbs in the amount of 65.00. sporatic e-mails for the first week said would send out following week, two weeks go by no corns no e-mails. Have e-mailed him numorous times no response finally had to get his home phone number and contact him at home to find out if he even recieved my payment. He gave an excuse my e-mail was down, but everyone else was getting through, then after said that his son was in the hospital. whatever. Said he would mail my corns the next week, i recieved a call didn't have the snakes i wanted. Had to choose others. Then another week coming home from a long day at work, i see a package on counter from AIRBORNE EXPRESS to ME! I open it! Wife comes in room after i opened it and told me that isn't your snake! So pissed off i call Jerry. I was totally for sending it BACK!!!! I had to ask him what it was. He asked me if snake was ok and if the ice was melted. Got the address where he wanted it sent. Keep in mind that I was going to have to pay for overnight shipping and saturday delivery after I already paid for the shipping of MY snakes! ANd my snakes were somewhere else. The snake had used the little snakie room in his container. So i placed the woma ina rubbermaid shoe box with fresh water. Went to take shower figured kids were outside playing it would be fine on table. Get out of shower snake is gone. Asked what happened kids told me. YES i was upset cause this is the second time they have done it to MY snakes. E-mailed Jerry to let him know. Never heard anything for the rest of that day. Waited and checked e-mail constantly, NOTHING not surprising now knowing Jerry's e-mail problems. I was going to tell him when he got back ahold of me not to send my corns to keep them and my money for the loss of his woma, granted not much but a jesture of good faith. But instead at six A.M. after i left for work two police officers were at my front door asking about the woma. Take into consideration that my wife knows nothing about snakes, she hates them. She said frank opened the box before i told him it wasn't his corns. Nothing was said about it being fed. I know you don't DUH! She also said Jerry has not responded to our e-mail to work something out, never that we would reimburse him half. The officer was laughing the whole time. He said it IS NOT mail fraud since it was sent to ME! and in the state of washington if it's sent to you it's YOURS!!! but in this case my kids did let it go! Believe i don't care that is what happened. I don't Beat my kids. They are just kids, no snake means more to me than them EVER!! That is why i only buy corns until they are older. They are only 3 and 6. I am honest, take the time to look into Jerry's background before judging me. He has called and harrassed my wife in the wee hours of the morning, but won't call when i'm home. He has sent threating e-mails to my wife and me and i have proof if he wants to go further. And i'd like for him to explain to AIRBORNE EXPRESS that i recieved a snake at my front door by them. I have kept the box for proof. Take and make your own decisions. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Franklin E Edwards III |
| joe fleenor |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7277.html Posted At 09:16:11 08/13/2001 Hey franklin I know what your going through.My first time doing business with tubbs went the same way and the same story.I had ordered 1 baby boa and 2 python babies,Well after getting lost on the way here and going through HE*L to get ups to look for a box on a truck being it was sat.I finally got the box,opened it and guess what?there was only one boa,no pythons.well tubbs went on to say that they had got shipped to some one else by mistake.well i finally received my pythons and after a couple of days I start to notice that one of the pythons acted funny,he would just sit in his box holding his head straight up in the air.I asked tubbs about it and he said that his girl had shut the lid of a cage on its head.well needless to say the snake was never right,so I gave it to my friends son.Now after this tubbs said he would cut me a deal on some other snakes to make up for the trouble and he did,my next order went ok.Well then I placed one more order for 10 baby ball pythons,now keep in mind that I payed for next day shipping.two and half weeks later I did receive them,they were smashed to death, it looked like they had been run over with a truck.I tried to email and call his home,but no luck getting in touch with tubbs.After a week had passed he emailed me asking if I had received them ok.I told him of how they had arrived and asked why he hadn't returned any of my calls or emails.He replyied saying that he had been moving and that his PC had been down and that his son was in the hospital and on and on and on about why he had not got in touch with me.well to bring this to an end he said that I should have contacted airborne and being that so much time had past that there was nothing that he could or would do about the problem. So as of today I'm still out of my money and still have no snakes!!!!!!!!!! SO JERRY MAYBE THIS IS JUST ONE OF THOSE OLD SAYINGS!!!!!EVERY DOG HAS THEIR DAY THANKS ROWDY |
| Karen Pallulat |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7280.html Posted At 09:34:06 08/13/2001 Mr. Edwards, If I were you I'd double check the laws in your state. I don't know how the law works in Washington, but in California you'd have to reimburse for that snake. I have a friend who sold a bird. It was "suppose" to be a cockatiel that was sent. A "Cockatoo" was sent accidently, complete with health certificate. This was an employee error. The order from was misread. My friend tried to stop the shipment. The shipper told them to have the receipiant refuse and the shipment, the Cockatoo, would simply be sent back. Well, she accepted the bird, "after" she was told it was the "wrong bird". My friend told her to send it back. She refused. She also refused to pay for the bird. She too figured it was sent to her and it was "hers" to keep. The woman who received the bird sold the bird to another party, about 22 days later. When this "third person" received the bird she express concern over the birds health. Eventually the bird died. In the meanwhile my friend was getting her paperwork together to take the person, who the bird was mistakenly sent to, to court. Now when this bird was sold the woman who sold it sent the health certificate that she had received from my friend. The woman who bought the bird contacted my friend wanting a refund for the bird. Both my friend and the third party person took this woman to court. They both won!. The woman who received the "wrong bird" had to reimburse the third party person for the bird and vet bills. She also had to reimburse my friend for the bird that was sent to her, "by mistake". Overall her accepting this package cost her almost $3000 dollars. She did get the money back that she sent for the cockatiel though. Now I know this situation is a bit different from yours, but it's still a matter of the "wrong animal" being shipped. Anyway like I said you might want to double check the laws in Washington. You also might want to check what State Law this would fall under. Whether it would be Washington or Kentucky. Take care, Karen :) |
| Matt Butler |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7281.html Posted At 10:59:32 08/13/2001 Karen, i dont think you understood the situation correctly. Even if there were a law that said he was responsible for what was sent to him, he still cant take it to court. It was a SNAKE, ther are NO legal shippers for them to your door! Jerry would probably face more serious charges and fines for shipping that way, and it just simply wouldnt be worth it. Womas are an expensive item, but not that expensive. Thanks, Matt. |
| Darin |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7288.html Posted At 11:43:07 08/13/2001 Maybe I'm wrong here (someone will undoubtedly point it out to me if I am, I feel confident), but I believe it is only illegal to ship snakes through USPS. Other carriers that offer door to door shipping may have company policies against shipping snakes, but those policies do not carry the weight of codified law. It seems to me that the worst that could happen to someone shipping snakes in a manner other than USPS is to lose the priviledge of using the carrier in question. That may also be too high a price to bear, but it is not the charges and fines that can come about from USPS troubles. Just a thought -- Darin |
| Ruth L. Smith |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7292.html Posted At 12:53:38 08/13/2001 I have not dealt with Jerry T. or Frank E. III and am not making a statement on any deals listed or otherwise on here. Franklin As a parent I would like to ask since when do you leave a snake around 3 & 6 year olds in a box and expect it to be ok just because they are outside? Do they not ever come into the house w/o being told to? When my boys were that age, the snakes stayed locked in the herp room. The shipper asked that the snake be left in the original container. True, the container had been "soiled" but it would probably not be the first time it had been in contact with its' on waste. Wouldn't it have been simpler just to leave the animal as requested in the orig. box & shipping container? I am not advocating keeping animals in unclean conditions, but it seems to me that if that wasn't acceptable that you could have dumped the container out & put the woman back in. Jerry, I think if you are having trouble keeping shipments straight, that you should possibly slow down & take your time with them. I have not shipped any herps, but I do breed Dobermans & German Shepherds. I can just imagine what my dobe clients would think if I sent the a shepherd by mistake. Good luck to all of you. |
| Darin Chappell |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7295.html Posted At 13:58:32 08/13/2001 Sorry for the incomplete post above. |
| Steve Emerick Napa Valley Snake Abatement |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7296.html Posted At 14:28:27 08/13/2001 Well speaking for California laws, Mr. Tubbs would have a very difficult time proving his case in a court of law here. First off, his shipment of the snake was illegal (regardless of it being a Woma or Cornsnakes). The door to door carriers of reptiles will not accept snakes (check with UPS, USPS, Fed-ex or Airborne with one simple phone call)if labeled as such. Many people send them this way, but they are taking a risk doing so (yes, I have also been guilty of sending snakes door to door). Secondly, if Mr. Edwards is correct in his version of the story (or even if he isn't but sticks to it), he opened the box prior to his wife telling him it was not his snake and removed it from the soiled container for the WELFARE OF THE ANIMAL. Now I have two sons (the oldest is five) who are quite knowledgable about snakes. He (oldest) can even tell you some of the latin names for some of the serpents in my collection. Yet he is only five!! At five his curiousity reigns above his common sense at times. He has in the past left lids off aquariums or a rack open, and I've lost snakes. The best thing I can do as a father is explain to him why he shouldn't leave the containers open and to turn it into a father/son herping adventure in our garage. Do you think a court of law will reprimand his two young children for doing something that could seem quite natural to a child?? Now my suggestion is, and that's all it's to be taken as, is for Mr. Tubbs to absorb the loss of the snake and realize it was through his neglect that he is out a Woma (sounds like this has happened to him before with his shipping methods). Pursuing this matter in court will prove fruitless and might possibly end up costing him even more money (in fines and court costs). Stephen Emerick Napa Valley Snake Abatement Service |
| jeff pfeifer |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7303.html Posted At 17:33:02 08/13/2001 AIRBORNE EXPRESS IS NOT THE POST OFFICE AND IS NOT A GOVERNMENT AGENCY. It is not illegal to ship snakes via Airborne, Fedex, UPS, etc., it is against their rules. It is against the law to ship USPS (post office) because they are a government agency and it is against their rules, therefore it is against the law. It is mail fraud to label snakes as lizards or frogs and express mail them. Certain things (such as chemicals) are illegal via Aiborne, UPS etc. because of airline restrictions ( these do not include snakes). Jerry, I don't know about Washington, either, but in Michigan what's sent to you is yours. I don't think there's is anything you will be able to do. Sorry. Franklin, I don't know you, but you have to admit your story is very suspect. A snake worth several thousand dollars coming up missing? It could happen but, wow! What a coincidence! The cops not finding it isn't convincing either. By your own admission they didn't take it seriously. Jerry, I'd be more careful from now on. Especially with such a valuable animal. Jeff Pfeifer |
| JerryTubbs |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7315.html Posted At 21:33:47 08/13/2001 Frank, First off I want to say , yes look into my background and see what has been said about me. Then find out how many of those people that havesaid "bad " have actually dealt with me and you will find a couple yes. Then email them andthey will all tell you the problem was taken care of and is a closed matter andthey would deal with me again,except for one person(which I won't mention their name, as they are getting what goes around comes around) AS YOU WILL ALSO. Second you won on 7/20/01 , You did NOT send payment until 7/24/01 ( you talk about proof , well I'M LOOKING AT THE ENVOLOPE RIGHT NOW THAT WAS STAMPED IN OLYMPIA WA ON 7/24/01 AT 17:50) ........I didn't even receive your payment untill Sat7/28/01 which you was notified about . I got proof ya want me to post the email? Then you was scheduled to receive tem between Wed. and Fri. , but NO it didn't happen.I emailed you on Thursday the 2 to tell you they was going out . I got a return email as indeliverible because of permanant fatal errors. I got proof if ya need it .After a couple more attempts I got the same thing. So NO I was NOT gonna send them out since you wanted to be notified the day they went out and kept getting returned emails . And yes my son was in the hospital and the only reason you was told that was because I told ya I would have called ,but couldn't call LD. But back to the point here. You called me the day we got home and I answered and we talked and you was just fine and dandy about EVERYTHING including the more expensive snakes I was gonna send instead of the ones you got .You wanted your money back at first until I told you I would eat the diffrence in them and then you said OH YES JUST SEND ME THE SNAKES SINCE I DON'T HAVE TO PAY ANY DIFFRENCE . So from 7/20/01 to 7/28/01 Iwaited for a check. Then I wouldn't ship out on Saterday the 28th so Monday was the 30th. So there is 10 days of this deal. IN which I had NO fault or control over. And you was told they will go out between Tuesday the 31-Thursday the the 2 .The reason you was told then was because my son was in the hospital and this time I tryed to still take care of my customers instead of waiting till my son came home , but I didn't know what day they would go out . Thursday came up I emailed you that morning and it came back as undeliverable,permanant fatel errors. I aske you about htis and you exact words was " Now that I think about it , I haven't been getting emails on that account. Those are you exact words ,when I asked you was you getting ANY emails. So there was Noway I was gonnaship if you wasn't receiving you emails and knew it was coming asyou stated you wanted to know when Ishipped. Then on the 4th YOU called me and asked what was going on ? And I told you .Well that was also a Sat. , so no shipping til Monday the 6th. And I told you that it will go out no later than Thursday the 9th ,and your shipment went out on the 8th and you received the woma on the 9 th. Your shipment WOULD have went out when it was supposed to , but I couldn't write you an email it was on your end NOT MINE it wouldn't go threw. Here it is simply put. July 20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27 Waiting on payment from you. July 28th received payment ,but couldn't send because the 29th was Sunday. Youknew I wouldn't ship out on the 30th. Supposed to be shipped from the 31st -2nd of August. Icouldn't get ahold of you on the 2nd so I did NOT ship. Friday 3rd ofAugust ----NOTHINGS Sat the 4th you called I explained what was going on and you was a ll great about it especially when you was getting higher priced corns. 5th and 6 th , you knew Iwasn't gonna be shipping. 7th---NOTHING. 8th they was shipped (even though they went to the wrong people). They only emails the first week was asking if Igot the money order. Thesecond week you was told my intentions of shipping, then later on that wekk your email went on the fritz. 3rd week you sent me a difrrent email addy and we talked back and forth and you called again and you received the snakes .For the first 10 days from the 20th Ihad no conrol over so it doesn't even count in the matter.Frank you was all great with this deal until you lost the woma. You said you hada paypal account , so I said tell me how much for shipping either now or after you ship and I'll paypal you . You said ok.Itold you you would be getting the corns the next day and you did.I asked you if the ice melted and if the snake was ok after you said you opened it . Itold you I didn't want you to open it because I was responsible for that woma UNTILyou opened the package and you said" I will go put it under lock and key right now especially when I told you , you was gonna be out 600 bucks if something happened to that snake.I said if it was a doa or died in the box I was responsible , but then again I told you if and since the box wasopen that YOUwas. I replied to your email the morning I got it and told you everything I was gonna do and the policeman came to your house and that should havebeen proof enough that I was NOT PLAYING. You wasn't gonna tell me not to send you those corns , you already had been told they was back in the mail coming to you when we spoke. Hey Franks have proof of what you say here . The policeman left me a very long message on my answering machine(that will go to court with us)about your wifes and his conversation. And yes she told him I said it had to be fed. And yes she told him You would pay half , since you was only half at fault,BUT WE ARE PAST THAT NOW , WE ARE GONNA GET THE WHOLE AMOUNT PLUS COST.So Ihave proof and also belieave it or not he had to fill out a police report over this "laughing matter" and there is a copy being sent to me and my attorney so you need to get one also before you say stuff you know that your lieing about or either your calling that cop a liar , because I have proof right here on the machine dude. I've never called and harrased you wife in the wee hours lol. It was 9 :45 your time in the am.Asfar as those threating emails yes, please post them here to let people see what the threats are PLEASE DO THAT PLEEEEEEEEEAAAASE. UUUUm , let me ask you this , how was the box labelled ? Wasm't it LIVE HARMLESS REPTILES? And airborne knows what was in the box. So there is my explanation.It may be against there regulations, but several locations accept them. They just will not guarantee live arrival,since in there rules they don't accept them. Heyif ANYONE wants to see proff of what I've said just email me or I'll post it here if ya want. Or call me and I'll play he message from the policeman and then you can take sides or see who is atleast being HONESThere. Rowdy, Show me proof where I said that , because you got that off another post .You never told me anything about that snake for over 2 weeks .And I said aftter that long I will NOT take it back. Then you got pissed at me .You tryed to trade me those pythons back and then tryed to sell them as HEAKTHY NO PROB;EM BALLS, well if ther was a problem wouldn't that be making you stretch the truth? And yes people I know for a fact they are the same ones because Rowdy himself told me that. Rpwdy Inever told you I WOULD CUT YOU A DEAL BECAUSE OF IT I TOLD YOU I would cut you a deal because you said you wanted to order ALOT of stuff.the next thing you orderd was 2 hypo corns, then a 10 lot of balls. Everything was great with them as you said . Then a few weeks later you wanted another 10 lot of balls and I told you up front before you even paypalled me that IT WOULD BE AWHILE , MOST LIKELY BEFORE I COULD SHIP. You said "AS LONG AS I HAVE THEM BEFORE CHRISTMAS. Then when I was going to ship you said holdoff I may just come down and help you move to your new place(this was going omn at the time I was moving)You asked me if I needed help, I told you yes, you said I'll be down and just pik them up then. I told you don't come down because I had no money to pay you for you long trip. You said don't worry about it , that's what friends are for. I SAID WELL i DO HAVE 4 melamine cages that are in good shape that I would give you , you said deal . Well you never showed up and emailed me later that week and said you had to work , then your snakes went out within a couple of days . You try to make it (like Frank) sound like it's my fault when in fact you had a big role in it . Yeah after you told me you got he snakes and they was crushed Itold you I would see what I could do , But I WOULD NOT GUARANTEE THEM BECAUSE I DON'T GUARANTEE LIVE ARRIVAL ON DAMAGES CAUSE BY SHIPPERS. NOW Rowdy that's the bottom line.And you are lieing because I told you airborne wouldNOT do anything at all because they was live reptiles and airborne won't guarantee that. |
| jeremy rennison |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7322.html Posted At 21:50:18 08/13/2001 well.... something I would expect from him... I had a bad deal from him too... still haven't heard anything... |
| Franklin E. Edwards III |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7325.html Posted At 22:07:42 08/13/2001 Jerry, You have only your opinion and I have the truth. Let's go ahead with that lawsuit i told my attorney to be ready. You DID harrass my wife and send threating e-mail i have copies and so do my lawyer. I have a written statement from the officer. My wife is not calling the officer a liar ahe NEVER said those things. I have given you the address to send your stuff to my lawyer. Send it Airborne express! She would love to talk to them, probably will anyway. I was going to try and work something out that is why i e-mailed you but heard no response but for the police at my door. I would at least talk to someone before i sent the police. So after that i said whatever, your problem. I am not going to post EVERYTHING you sent me it will all come out in court. So do what you must. So will I. Sincerely, Franklin edwards III |
| Jerry Tubbs |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7331.html Posted At 22:42:35 08/13/2001 You won't post everything because you don't haveany threatening emails to post. My opinion on this is the truth , because I can back up everything I said I can I can post everything I said I can I got messages from the officer that will prove beyond the shadow of a doubt , you're lieing about what was said or he is lieing about what was said between him and your wife . You said you are not calling him a liar so the lies are coming from your side then. If he NEVER said those things then wh ythe hell do I have them on a answering machine? Face it your busted and just about EVERYONE on here knows it .Like I said the airborne thing doesn't bother me at all because my location here accepts live animals. As Iasked you what was lablelled on the box? If they don't or won't ship them, then why the hell did they when it was PLAINLY marked on the box? You gonna be out alot more than the 300 Ioffered you asa settlement Frank .It's gonna be a long drawn out process , but it's gonna be worht it just to PROVE these things I told you Ihave and to PROVE you will reimburse full amount andthen some. So see yain court . |
| Franklin E. Edwards III |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7333.html Posted At 23:06:00 08/13/2001 WE can Talk on here forever and everone will get bored. So the next time we talk will be in court. Good Luck! Franklin E. Edwards III |
| Patrick Hughett @ North Texas Reptiles |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7353.html Posted At 02:27:15 08/14/2001 Darin, You are absolutely wrong about other shippers besides USPS. It is not illegal...true, but you can and most likely will be taken to court if the wrong person hears about it. You can be slapped with lots of fines and/or jail time. I had a green anaconda shipped to me by someone last year and they sent it UPS. Later on that night, he got a call from UPS saying. "We know you have a snake in the box...we need to know if it's venomous or not!". He told them it was NOT venomous. They then said, "We will go ahead and complete the shipment, but we are putting you on our fraudulent list and the next time you do it we will press charges!" Now, I have shipped through those shippers, and I do it at my own risk, but don't think for a second that nothing can happen to you...just because it's not USPS...which, by the way, is a FEDERAL OFFENCE for all of you who don't know yet. Thanks, Patrick Hughett North Texas Reptiles |
| Brian Conley |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7368.html Posted At 09:57:29 08/14/2001 Ok, here'e the problem I have w/ this situation. Why is Frank responsibile for Jerry's mistake. No offense Jerry, but if you hadn't sent him a woma he wouldn't be in this situation. $300 sounds about right if you subtract the wholesale values of those animals, but Jerry, you made the mistake. Frank never asked for a woma, or the trouble that he is in because you sent the wrong snake. You basically signed him up for more responsibility than he asked for. IF,(and it's a big if), his story is true then I don't think he should be held responsible for your screw-up. Brian Also just for future reference it's: "you WERE" not "you was." |
| Karen Pallulat |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7385.html Posted At 12:29:48 08/14/2001 From what I can see there was an "oral agreement" "after" the snake was removed from the box. In Mr. Edward's words he posted, "I was totally for sending it BACK!!!!" Obviously he had spoken to Jerry and agreed to send it "back". Then his children "turned it loose in the woods". He no longer felt the need to return the snake, because it was no longer in his possesion. Mr. Edward's orignial intentions was to send the snake back. He stated that himself. Once the snake was "gone" he shifted the blame to Jerry. Yes, Jerry made a mistake. He sent the wrong snake. The thing is that Mr. Edwards agreed to send the snake back. Now "Mr. Edwards" is responsible to take "reasonable care" for the snake until it's shipped. He must also make sure it's shipped properly. Had Mr. Edwards been able to do this this thread wouldn't even be here. I mean how hard is it to put a snake "out of reach" of a 3 and 6 year old? Was "reasonable care taken?" It wouldn't appear so. The snake is gone. Now he didn't say "I'm sorry the snake is gone can we work something out?" He said, "I was going to tell him when he got back ahold of me not to send my corns to keep them and my money for the loss of his woma, granted not much but a jesture of good faith." Not exactly what a person wants to hear after they've been told something will be returned. Did Jerry "jump the gun" in calling the police?" I don't know. I don't know what was going through Jerry's mind at the time. He may have felt it was justified. I really don't know myself. I admit the story of the children turning it loose in the woods sounds "fishy", but I'd have to believe it. Especially since I don't know for a "fact" that it isn't true. I don't think "how" the snake was shipped will determine the out come of a court case. That would be a matter between Jerry and AirBorne Express. I think the "oral agreement" after the snake arrived and the box being opened will determine the out come of a court case. Since both parties said the snake was being returned, until it came up missing, there "must" have been some "oral agreement" in place. Then the "reasonable care" factor will come into play. Mr. Edwards was neglegent in the "reasonable care" department. The snake is gone. Somebody will have to pay for the snake. Prehaps both parties can work things out without going to court. Maybe not. I'm sure "time will tell" who has fault here. It could be both parties. It could be one or the other. I'm betting Jerry will win if this case actually goes to court. Good Luck to "Both" parties, Karen :) |
| Brian Conley |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7388.html Posted At 13:08:51 08/14/2001 Karen, here's the problem I have w/ that. Frank never "signed up" to take care of such an expensive snake. He wanted $65 worth not $500 to $1000. Jerry screwed up and sent the more expensive animal, so in my mind he is responsible for the difference. Does Frank lose his $65? Yes, but that's all, unless Jerry can prove deliberate negligence. Who's to say that Frank can afford $300 or $1000 dollars worth of risk. I can't really think of a good analogy to this situation, but it would be like you ordering something from a company and when the package arrives it's not what you ordered. In fact, it's a completely different product worth 10 to 15 times what you were willing to pay. The company then realizes their mistake and askes you to "look after" their merchandise until YOU can return it to them (again not really good business). While you are "babysitting" their stuff something happens and they then expect you to then be responsible for the value of their screw-up. Why should Jerry's mistake cost Frank money? Brian |
| tori miller |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7400.html Posted At 15:31:23 08/14/2001 Karen, This situation is soooo Jerry's fault. If he can't send the right packages to his customers then he shouldn't be in business. Do you know know that frank's story isn't true? No you don't and neither do i, but i have kids of my own and they DO NOT stay out of things just cause i tell them too, your kids must be angels. I think after all that Frank had to go through he's entitled to the snake. I have gone and looked at jerry's stuff oh my god he has at least three hundred bad remarkes. Frank, you are totally not responsible, and were thrown into this situation. I will never deal with Jerry from what i have read here and on other sites. Jerry will not win if this goes to court it was his negligence. He should've been more careful, If he would have shipped it to the right address NONE of this would've happened. It wasn't frank's snake why should he have to be responsible for it? He opened it before his wife told him about it. Why should he have to pay shipping again? Whose to say Jerry would have reimbursed Frank for Shipping cause of his good name, from what i have read Jerry has no good name. Jerry you might as well eat the cost of that snake, your fault entirely! thank you tori miller |
| Karen Pallulat |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7401.html Posted At 15:48:11 08/14/2001 I think the point that everyone has over looked is...... They were told "before the package arrived". This whole mess could have been avoided "if" the package was "refused". They accepted the package and opened it, now it's their responsibility. If I was informed that a package was on the way to me and it was the "wrong package". I simply would "refuse delivery". The problem then would be solved. Like I said, "Time will tell who's at fault if it goes to court". I've already told you of my friend and her "wrong package problem". She won when she went to court. Does anyone else know of an actual "wrong package" case that went to court? What were the results? Karen :) |
| Karen Pallulat |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7402.html Posted At 15:59:23 08/14/2001 Tori, I do believe I said Mr. Edwards story "sounds fishy", but I'd have to believe it to be true. I didn't say he lied. I said I believe what he said happened, actually happened. I don't know for fact to the contrary, so I must accept the fact that he's being truthful. Read more carefully next time. Karen :) |
| Jerry Tubbs |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7424.html Posted At 19:23:00 08/14/2001 I thank ea and everyone of you for your input, I have some info I will post in a moment. Tori, Who are you ? I ran a search on you and this is the only post you've made. Have you not posted here before or was I just overlooking the post from the search? I think you are some one we all know and love om here lol, but IF I'm wrong then soooo sorry. I'll put this blunt , where the hell do you see 300 bad post against me ? You can't see straight or you can't count one of the two.Enough with you though I have info to share with herpers here. Ok guys I talked to a lawyer here in KY , so today I decided to talk to a lawyer in WA.And this is what the one in WA said. 1. They were notified hrs. in advance , that it was not theirs which makes them have responsibility in this materr, because they could have told me they was gonna refuse the package and let it come back to me . 2.Frank's wife was in fact negligient by not telling Frank NOT to open the package. She could have written on the package DO NOT OPEN FRANK. 3.She was told NOT TO OPEN THE PACKAGE.She knew this and told officer Eastman " Jerry said to take it out a feed it , that's why it was opened'. I have this on a message he left me , for proof I would like for some of you to give me a jingle and I'll play it for you or better yet Frank you call me and I'll play ot for YOU. 4.Since I had proof that this was said, Frank just caught his self up in a web by saying "wife comes running in and told me that's not YOUR snake." 5.Frank left it on the table (negligience)insteadof putting it 'out of reach' . 6. Frank knew his snakes went out the same day as they was received at the wrong adress, therefore he knew when I responded, he could NOT tell me to keep the corns for my trouble. 7.Frank has a few things that conflict with each other that he has said. 8.These things and MORE (but these are the basic winning things) told to me by a lawyer in YOUR state Frank.Frank you should have pd the settlement amount . I told you I was gonna go on with this , and now I am . I will win if we do it in WA or KY. And I almost took alot of your guys advice and just eat the loss, I'm glad as can be that I didn't. Frank see ya in court . Once again thanks to almost everyone that responded . Thanks Jerry Tubbs |
| Joey Wright |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7458.html Posted At 08:00:33 08/15/2001 Jerry, After all the people you have screwed, it was very refreshing to read that you did it to yourself. I can't for the life of me, think of a more deserving individual for this to happen to. Thanks for making my day. Joey Wright |
| Brian Conley |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7464.html Posted At 08:27:23 08/15/2001 Ok, let me get this right. Jerry screws up an order. Frank has an accident w/ a snake that he was never supposed to recieve. Jerry then sues Frank because of the accident. Jerry, as the "crime" occured in WA you would have to fly out there and sue in small claims court. That whole process will cost you more than the woma was worth. I could see doing it if he didn't pay for something he ordered, maybe. But this all started with your screw up, why should he be held responsible for YOUR actions. Makes no sense to me. Brian Conley |
| Jerry Tubbs |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7483.html Posted At 12:59:13 08/15/2001 Joey, Why don't you tell us who ALL these people are please ? There isn't but 2 of them and the deals was made right with both. So how can you be over looking this as a Christian recording artist , you must know alot about making things right and if you do that then how was someone screwed? And who are you to judge me ? ANYWAYS Brian, Let me put this as simply as I can. Yes I shipped wrong snake to wrong person,BUT I made a call to tell the people this before they even received the package.Now according to laws in BOTH states,they have said the same thing and I will win. If I would have made a call AFTER they opened the box it would be a TOTALLY diffrent case here. I told them not to open the box. I told them when it showed to send it back assoon as it was delivered and tell them it was the wrong package.I told them I would be responsible up until the package was opened so don't open it ,because then you ARE responsible. This was agreed upon.Well it still got opened , because it was negligience on Frank's wifes part because there was several things she could have done to make sure it DID NOT get opened.I have the message here that stated "JERRY told me to open the box to feed the snake and we are willing to compensate in this deal." Right there she admitted guilt. Like I offered ANYONE, call me up and they can hear the message that Frank said was never told. Now I'm just stating what the lawyer told me in her state and mine.Also the package was sent across state lines so it made any legal actions having to be here in KY. Once again I'm just telling you what BOTH attorneys said. Now let me ask you this , If I sent you the wrong snake and called you several hours in advance and told you, you are getting the wrong snake so don't open the box and just send it straight back to me ,because I'm responsible until you open the box,but if the box gets opened you take responsibility.What would you do ? Open it ? Send it back? Please let me know . |
| Kenneth Hilton |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7485.html Posted At 13:44:36 08/15/2001 OH THE DRAMA JUST TOO MUCH TO BEAR!! LOL |
| john northrup |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7487.html Posted At 14:19:21 08/15/2001 hi, i don't think i've seen this question yet( or i might have missed it in the circus). what about the guy that was suppose to get the woma? is he being reimbursed or will he have to wait to this "law suit" to happen. just currious john |
| Matt Butler |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7501.html Posted At 19:01:50 08/15/2001 Thats a good question John, another good one for ya Jerry. If they had refused the package, it would not have gotten back to you NEXT DAY. Had it died, would you still try to place the blame on him? It probably would have sat for days in a warehouse, before ever getting back to you. No food, no water, no proper temps! Come on, end this mess Jerry. For a while there i thought all these people were being harsh when they said you needed to quit this business, now im starting to agree. Think about it man, if he had refused it, that package would have been in a truck til late that evening when it got back to a WAREHOUSE, just to be scanned, and put on another truck. Give this thread a rest. Matt Butler |
| Brian Conley |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7512.html Posted At 21:02:11 08/15/2001 Jerry, you sent the snake to HIM not HER. What if you sent me the wrong snake but got in touch w/ my wife (not the person involved in the transaction), and when I got home she had fallen asleep on the couch? I open the box and there's a dead snake inside. Your saying I would be reasonsible for your mistake because my wife didn't warn me in time? I think that unless you talked to HIM before he opened the box you're SOL. But hey if you really want to spend a couple thousand on attorney fees to recover your loss I can't stop you. I'll even go so far as to say this; his story does sound fishy. But, it was still your mistake that got this ball rolling, not his, so I think ultimately you're responsible. Does that suck out loud, especially when we're talking about an expensive animal? Hell yeah, but I bet you'll check those labels a little more closely next time won't you? Brian |
| Jerry Tubbs |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
7513.html Posted At 21:17:24 08/15/2001 Idon't think you can read the post very well. I told him to send it back, refuse it , or don't open the box.I told him I was responsible UNTILhe opened the box. In other words if he wouldn't have opened ,sent it back and it was dead Iwould have taken FULL responsibility of it . He was told this , his wife was told this , what is so hard to see about it that you have to keep asking the same question when it's right there in a post I made . Matt I'm very glad we never dealt with ea other because you are the type of person that can't be pleased. we had a deal and you kept changing it ,then when you didn't end up and get what you wanted out of the deal you said let's not do this, cause I don't feel you are giving me a fair deal. When in fact the deal was made and over a few days you was trying to get money to come down to my place since we decided not to ship. Ioffered you half of the expense on gas, then you wanted me to pay for half your food and if you had to stay overnight half of that as well. If you remember correctly ,you brought the deal to me and made the offers, andI accepted. Then when you tryed to change the deal and I said no you got pissed and said let's call it off . Then you called me back a week later and wantred to trade again I told you NO again and you got pissed again. How come if you want me to get out of the business too , you are always sending me emails to try to get something for you and then when I get it or tell you where to find it you don't have the money to get it . Now that's pretty shady man. So give it a rest yourself and think about what you write about me or posting anything on this thread that has nothing to do with the question I asked.Do you know that I didn't call airborne and tell them if the package is refused , to send it back for Sat. delivery? You can do that when you have an account with them and call and tell them . I'll answer that question NO YOU DONT KNOW IF I DID OR DIDNT, but to answer it YES I did. So Matt , shut up when you don't know what your talking about , now read that CLOSELY because it doesn't say to shut up, it says to shut up about stuff you don't know the facts about. Thanks John , I have no problem answering you ????. As a matter of fact , Don and myself have been talking about his the whole time and we are trying to make a trade on other animals ,because this woma he was taking to the show . So now he needs a little more stock to go along with what he's already taking.If we can't work out a trade ,then he WILL be refunded. I hopw this answers the question John.Anymore just ask Thanks |
| Jason Thurber |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
8252.html Posted At 11:50:30 08/26/2001 Frank, Personally, I think you are just another scumbag that hit paydirt and that your story is just a cover up. It could backfire in your face though and I don't think a woma is worth dealing with the Department of Family Services over a report of child endangerment. Child endangernment is what you are guilty of if, in fact, you were taking a shower while your 3 year old and 6 year old were outside messing with, like you said, YOUR snake. Your alibi confesses your guilt of a greater crime. There's no story you can come up with that will put your children in a safe situation, under yours or your wifes supervision, releasing woma pythons back into the wild without your knowledge. So which is it? Are you a thief or a child abuser? You have confessed to being the latter to Mr. Tubbs and if he wanted to, he could report you to the DFS. I'd be careful. Nothing comes for free. |
| K Hughes |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
8288.html Posted At 12:27:41 08/27/2001 Jerry, I saw a post where you were responding to someone who had done a search on you and found several bad post and you stated that they had not looked at it correctly that there were only a couple of bad post about you recorded here. Well I am here to tell you, that I did a search on you and obviously it is you that can not see or read correctly or maybe your just plain delusional because I saw myself several unsatified severely ticked off potiential customers of yours. You clearly have no business trying deal in reptiles. The law is such that if something is sent to you in the mail and you did not order it then you do not have to return it,(how do I know this? I worked for the USPS) Maybe if it would of been a case that you had the proper address on the box and it was accidently delivered to Frank, then he would definitly be responsible for returning it,and be guilty of mail fruad,, buttt.... seeing as it had his name and address on the box you are solely at fault, And even being if he is fibbing about the what happened to the snake, and the honest thing to do would be to return the snake, but you say you had a converstation with him about the return of the snake, he then emailed you about the loss of the snake, you say you emailed him back, heres where I see you both wrong, why didnt either of you call instead, I would think that an animal worth the amount the woma was would warrent a phone call when inquiring about the loss of it, not an email.. maybe he should of phoned you to explain the loss, but you sure as hell should of called him, when you read what he had stated had happened.. and then after you email him though, you send the police to his door!! He didnt go to your house and take the snake, you sent it to him you dumb@$$! My God you need to give someone a resonable amount of time before you start trying to place out a warrant that you have no true right to be placing on him in the first place, If they would of found the snake there and had arrested him he could of sued you for false arrest.. Then when that didnt work you finally start making calls to his residence, but you are speaking with his wife!! You didnt have the deal with his wife you had the deal with him.!! I can understand Franks attitude with you here on this point too. You have no reason or right to be annoying her, If I was in Franks situation at this point I would definitly take advantage of the law that states you dont have to return something in the mail if it was sent to you, without your permission. Jerry you have obviously screwed around so many people I think this is a clear case of what goes around comes around, and you are getting your just rewards for being so caotic and dysfuntional. I think its safe to say that your welcome here is definitly worn out. We all now just see you as a pathetic wanna be herp dealer, and I dont think you would ever be able to clear your bad bussinessman status here. |
| Sabrina Estes |
Re: Wrong snake/ Wrong person.franklinedwards60@hotmai
9401.html Posted At 23:08:37 09/26/2001 Ok guys...we are the people the should have received the woma and well...we haven't received credit or a phone call from Jerry. However, we have received an email stating that he wanted to setup a payment plan...we have not received the first payment for the woma. We are reasonable people and understand that mistakes are made, but it does need to be corrected. As you can see by the original date of this post, August 10, do you think that it is too much to ask for at a minimun a payment of some sort if not in full??? There is so much to this story, that I don't care to get into. I am just fed up with dealing with this mess. This is not in anyway acceptable! Needless to say we are extremely frustrated. Jerry please give us a call or email us so we can get this taken care of ASAP. |