| Author | Subject: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness) |
| Jason Swe!gart...Classic Dum's | Posted At 19:55:12 09/18/2001
Several weeks ago I had found aan add in the kingsnake classifieds for a 100% het retic male that Eric and Sharlene had for sale. Below I will post several of the emails however there is a 3rd party that is indirectly invovled in this mess whos name has been deleted from the emails. Just because Eric cant seem to figure out the differance between right and wrong doesnt mean this person who I will call "Steve" needs to be drug in this, so for anyone who replies if you happen to figure out who "steve" is, I would apreciate if you dont post his name. Anyway Eric is someone who I thought was a freind I could trust but I guess I was wrong. I found the post and emailed him wondering if the retic was still for sale and if we could work a deal. He emailed back and said it was and sent me his number to call him. I did and we worked a deal. Over the next few months I was to make payments( I am a college student with a baby on the way so money is hard to come by) toward the animal until it was payed off. He assured me that making the payments was not a problem because he was selling the animal due to a space issue and not for the money so he wasnt concerned with the time. Also the animal was at someone elses "steve" and he didnt think Steve would have a problem with it. I also spoke to steve and he told me personally he didnt have a problem with it. Anyway we worked the deal I sent my deposit and he cashed it then backed out of the deal and traded the animal to someone else. So after getting all hyped about this albino project getting my family hyped about it, getting caging ready and also I had a couple of investors who were going to go in with me on some other animals who now are not because this whole deal left a bad taste in their mouths, I feel I was royally screwed. I knew Eric throw shows on the east coast as well as many phone conversations. I went way out of my way for both of them on more then one occasin. One time spent a several hours on the phone with her long distance on my bill. I was on the phone with her walking her to incubatthrough how e Jungle Carpet python eggs, because they had breed some and had no idea how to incubate them on top of explaining and reading various things from the books I have about those and several other species. So my whole point with all this is I felt very comfortable with the deal becasue I knew them and also didnt feel there would be any problems due to the times I went out of my way to help them but in turn I got screwed. heres my first email to him Hey whats happening man, do you still have that het retic for sale yet? if so let me know I would like to work something out, I take it he never gave you guys your money back for what you paid him? anyway let me know and send me your number I got some possible het retic and was planning on buying a 100% in the spring to go with but if ya still got it this would work out great, anyway let me know thanks Jason His reply Hey Jason, Yes he's for sale still. We ended up getting him for the $1000.00 credit we had and kept him here from 3/01 until about two weeks ago. We sent him back to "Steve" (other projects pending) and he's in great shape. This is a 100% het with the paperwork and the price is VERY fair considering the above price we paid. So if you're interested, "Steve" will ship him directly to you. Our number is (609) 814-****, call evenings or leave a message daytime. We also have a 10-11 foot yellow head retic female....very gentle and just awesome!! Asking $550.00 for her. Let me know, try calling tomorrow eve. AND, lol, I thought you were completely opposed to any big snakes, especially retic pythons. They really don't deserve the rep they had, they're the most intriguing snakes I've ever dealt with!! Shit, things change ha? Take care, - Eric I sent an email telling him I sent the deposit, he emailed back and said cool Ill let ya know when I get it after not hearing from him we emailed this Eric, Was just wondering if you received the money order yet?? Thanks for your time Jason here is his reply Jason, I didn't make it to the post office yet, as they tried to deliver the package when I wasn't home. So I will run down there on Tues. and pick it up...Talk to you soon. -Eric heres his email confirming he got the deposit From: "Sharlene Fabiano" To: "Chatton Always" Subject: Re: Yup this is jason!! Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:12:09 -0400 Got it today Jason, thanks. - Eric Nows here where things change he agreed to the deal but now its not good enough for him Jason, After thinking this through thoroughly we've decided to keep the snake. It's just that $100.00 per month will take us in to 2002, with it being at steve's facility he'd have to feed it and that's just not a good feeling. Besides, we paid $1000.00 in March for him, sure we ran the ad for $650.00 - cash a.s.a.p. would be different, but over 6 months none of us would make out right. Hate to do this to you dude, certainly you understand, but I'll mail the $50.00 back out to you next week. Chances are that if you wait until next spring you can get a 100% pair for $1500.00 or less, I'd bet money on it @ the rate they've dropped the albino's already. See you @ M.A.R.S., hope you understand our standpoint! - Eric G. heres my reply Hey dude, whats happeing, I would really like that animal, I set things loose like that incase something happened on my end so I wouldnt be late paying, but this coming saturday at the show I was going to let you know I would have the money for you earlier I had a couple of things I had to get straight I was going to pay you the hundred in october and the differance in the beginning of novmber, also you said the time wasnt a problem because it is at "steves" place and when I spoke to him he said the same as well, because I was working a deal with him to get a 100% het female as soon as I had you paid and also I wouldnt this this 100% het male from you because of his size because I have a 66%het female that will be of size next year, so I would really like that animal and you already have my deposit so I would really apreciate if we could keep things the way they are and ill have you paid off by the middle to end of nov, let me know thanks Jason here is his reply and were his story starts to change Looks like "steve" is willing to trade us out a female het (?) in exchange for that male. So the thing is, the exact snake we are talking about is still available...through "steve" only. The reason for the sudden change of heart is that Sharlene paid $1000 bucks for him, so at $650 she is losing $350. With the exchange I agreed with "steve" (today on his cell phone), we lose nothing. Again, just understand that there is no reason for us to lose that money and I do apologize for having you go through sending a deposit out. Guess it is safe to say that it's better we realize this now then 1/2 through you paying for him. -Sharlene and Eric p.s. This is just my opinion, but if I were you I'd get that 100% het female from him now, and by not paying us you would probably have that money to him fairly soon. This way you get a good head start on her and considering retic females breed at a min. of 3 years she will be well started. You can buy a male cheaper next year, when your female is already a year in to the "game". Again, just my opinion. well simply he shouldnt have postyed it at that price and worked the deal with us and accepted our payment, he wanted to sell it then when something better came along he simply said screw you, anyway here is my reply anyway heres is the rest of his emails after this he went as far as calling me a lier and insulting me and everyone else who he says lurks in the shadows waiting for a deal, so heres another email pretty much saying screw you You're right, we should have thought it through before posting the ad, and we did....we have tried to sell that snake on KS for two months plus now. At first we asked for $950.00, then $775.00, and lower and lower until you emailed. We are in a position to turn it around and get the equivalent for it, and it's our best option. I have nothing to do with your agreement with all 'these people' so please don't attempt to make it seem so. Besides, the list price for hets is $1000.00 each, and some things are negotiable with him once your a consistent 'customer. So considering you're in on this with others you certainly can afford to split $1000.00 amongst all of you. Important note: You mentioned that someone has a 7-8 foot female het, this would indicate she's only around a year old - not older, unless she's underfed (it is a retic) - this means you have roughly two more years before she'll produce (it's a fact retic females go @ 3 years plus - these are not as prolific as Burmese per say)...so this just goes to show you that within that time span you can raise a male het up to breed (usually 18 months) by the time she's ready to go. I don't want to come off as blabbing but understand that between all of you you can surely spring $1000 on a newborn het. I have to come first on my end, on a whim we dropped the het's price and what do you know, we finally had people interested, but after careful consideration, we decided otherwise. So again, I'm sorry. Again, this would have come about differently if you paid in full. Instead you told me you could only do it over 6 months, the snake was already back @ "steve's" and with that in mind it wouldn't be fair for him to have to feed it that whole time. We spoke to him and agreed on another deal, and then you tell me that you'd be able to pay earlier, only after all this. I also got the feeling that you did not trust my word on him being 'tame' considering you (or your girlfriend) called Bob that Saturday and asked HIM if he was 'tame'. You and I covered that on the phone, so why? I'm saying this all in good faith, so I hope you are too. I need no bad blood amongst us and all I can say is that with what we've decided (Sharlene and I ) we don't lose $$$$$$$$$. Thanks for understanding. - Eric and Sharlene Once again I must say he shouldnt have made the deal with me and accepted and cashed my deposit Reminder: You said "If something else comes up that's alright with me because I wouldn't want you to miss the chance to sell the snake sooner to someone who could pay in full". To answer your question, no I have never bred reticulated pythons. But they have been my main focus for the last 2-3 years. I sold all our Dumerils, Argentines, granite and albino het granite pair, my adult burms, and 1.3 Irians, and 2.3 Jungles to name some. It's my main focus to devote 100% in to reticulated pythons. I have never claimed to be a breeder, never said it once. I have a passion for this hobby, as a keeper. So I can and will be selective in my endeavors. And last, we are not taking this loss of $350.00, no need to. I can turn it around to where we'll brake even and maybe even make some profit down the line, can only hope. It's only $50.00, and you can certainly get a het from someone else. "steve" probably has several dozen, but don't mark me on that. If any of this confuses you, refer to line one. Those were your words verbatim. - Eric and Sharlene ahh no those were not my words at all, I must ask you the reader? does anyone think that someone in their right mind would say hey I am going to send you some money for an animal but hey what the hell if ya want just go ahead and sell it out from under me I dont mind???? i mean come on get real, anyway here is his final email which I didnt respond to because his tone was really begining to change and he was getting nasty about it and with the show coming up that weekand I didnt want the hostiltiy at the show Now, this has gotten ridiculous. You deny you mentioned to go ahead if a more secure deal came around within SIX MONTHS, and now claim that my space issue concern lead me to say other things I don't recall saying ("So it's a deal"). You're obviously pissed, and rightly so I ad, that I reconsidered and am not willing to allow someone the pleasure of this killer deal. I (we) will not let the that money slip through my hands for someone else's benefit. That's the WHOLE thing, which I didn't contemplate before dumping the price only to find that people fester in the shadows until a 'bargain' comes around. Just simply running the ad that low proved to us that it's assanine for us to take such a loss on a snake of that caliber. Unless Sharlene has mailed that out yet (she's currently sleeping) we'll bring it in cash to the show. See you there, - Eric G. "I reconsidered and am not willing to allow someone the pleasure of this killer deal." plan and simple Eric you shouldnt have made it in the first place Well anyway needless to say the guys that were going to help me out backed out and "steve" who is a very honest person lost several thousnd this year because of him, and I lost my albino project, I let spoke to "steve" and him know what Eric is like so he I dont think hes going to do him favors like that in the furture, but who knows, because plan and simple I offered him a deal for the animal he took it, that should have been the end of it plan and simply heres his email addy([email protected]) I for one will never do buisness with him again and also would recomend that you do not, thanks for reading Jason |
| Steve Schindler |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9188.html Posted At 22:46:10 09/18/2001 Well, it was a bit hard to follow the story line but near as I can figure, you got your $50.00 back and "steve" has the snake that you were originally intending to buy from Eric on payments for $650.00. Is "Steve" still willing to sell you the snake for $650.00. that's the key here. If so, its no big deal, you get what you want and Eric gets what he wants. If "steve" is not willing to sell you the snake for $650.00 I make him out to be the bad guy and not Eric. You can't fault Eric for making a move that will get him his money faster, and "Steve" never should have made a trade for an animal that was promised to someone else if he didn't intend to follow through on the deal. What does the statement "and "steve" who is a very honest person lost several thousnd this year because of him," have to do with this at all. It has no bearing on this deal. If "Steve" is so honest he should sell you the snake for $650.00 and there is no problem. Steve Schindler |
| Jason....Classic Dum's |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9195.html Posted At 06:49:47 09/19/2001 Valid point but I dont see it that way I set the deal up with Eric so I see him at fault but no "steve" wanted the 1000 out of it he put into it, and flat out I told him im not going to pay that for an animal I already paid a deposit on for 650. I dont hold "steve" responsible same thing as if he had traded it to you, the deal was with eric and no one else. "steve did offer a baby at 650 but after all this I dont have the time or money to do it and the origanal deal was for a 7ft+ animal that would be breedable next year, so im not walking backward. and what I was talking about with steve loosing money is if we got that male I was goping to breed it to a freind of mine's two adult female het retics, also I had two people who were going to front the money for me for this male some female retics, because of the breeder loan they would be able to break evan next year, but now they wont front the money because they dont want to wait a couple years to raise a neonate to get there money back, and now also we dont have a male for the females, so now I have two people pissed at me, they were skeptical to begin with, I thought Eric was trustworthy and assured them there was not going to be any problems but after Eric pulled this crap they dont want to front the money, and ya Eric had nothing to do with the deals I had going on elsewhere but a deal is a deal and he should have lived up to his, whether it be for 3 days or 9 years, i hope this better explains things Jason |
| Brian Conley |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9196.html Posted At 08:25:19 09/19/2001 He cashed your deposit, which is the same as signing a contract. Unless the animal died or you both agreed to back out of the deal, he should provide you with that animal on the terms you originally agreed to. You could probably take him to court over this. It sounds like classic bait and switch to me. Brian |
| Neil Gubitz - The Snake Pit - Tampa Bay, FL |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9197.html Posted At 08:40:49 09/19/2001 I usually don't get in to things like this, but...in this case, I've got to say that I think Jason is correct!! What Eric did was (in MY opinion!) not only unethical, but it was also BAD BUSINESS and a Breach of Contract!! Eric put a snake up for SALE!! He put a PRICE on that snake!! The TWO of you made an "oral agreement" (contract) to BUY the snake at that price!!; There WAS a "meeting of the minds" (how much it will cost, the time it will take to pay, etc.)!; There was a DEPOSIT sent, and a DEPOSIT RECEIVED AND CASHED!! SO....now that Eric sees that the snake SOLD so easily at the price AGREED UPON, he wants to be greedy and try to get more money!! I'm NOT a lawyer, but, IN MY OPINION, that is Breach of Contract and if you SUED him, I don't think there's a Court on this planet who wouldn't side for the Plaintiff!! In this business (or ANY business, for that matter) your WORD is your REPUTATION!! After hearing what happened (IF those are the actual facts!), I wouldn't trust Eric as far as I could throw him!! If I make a deal, you can write it in STONE!! Whether I end up losing money (which HAS happened), or whatever....IT'S A DEAL!!! I would NEVER go back on my WORD!! The "customer" has to KNOW that they can TRUST YOU!! NOT, "Well, OK...I'll sell it to you, but, if a better offer comes along, I'm going to take it!!"....WHAT BULL!! Eric...You should be ASHAMED of yourself (AND your wife) for even THINKING about doing what you did!! How is ANYBODY going to TRUST you EVER AGAIN??? I certainly hope the extra $350 was worth it??...Neil |
| Steve Schindler |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9200.html Posted At 09:23:19 09/19/2001 I'll start (backpeddle a bit perhaps) by saying that I agree that what Eric did was bad business, and it would make me question his integrity, and really look at getting into any deals with him. At the same time though, Steve was fully aware of the arrangement between you and Eric and still made the trade with Eric, knowing that he was not going to uphold the original agreement. That doesn't make him an honest person in my book, and I would probably no sooner do business with him than I would Eric. Alas, since I don't know who "steve" is it doesn't really matter. As far as the lawsuit goes, I am not a lawyer either, but I did have a business law class many moons ago and I seem to recall that any sales involving a dollar amount greater than $500.00 had to be in writting to be valid. This may not apply to this type of deal, and the law may have changed over the years, but it is possible that no court would side with the plaintiff in this case. Steve Schindler |
| Marcel Poots |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9219.html Posted At 17:06:02 09/19/2001 I have to agree with Jason here. After the deposit has been made and cashed you would guess there is some kind of a legal agreement going on. If you try to run a business it is in your best interrest you see to it that you don't go braking deals. I think Eric thought he could make more money after this deal went so easy. This all seems very bad business to me. After reading this I hope no one will make that mistake again. Marcel (Holland) |
| Lance Hartman |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9222.html Posted At 18:38:24 09/19/2001 A deposit is given to protect the seller in case the buyer backs out. If steve would have backed out would the deposit have been refunded? I think Eric should have made contact via the phone to inform Steve that the situation had changed and see if there was something that could have been worked out. It just doesn't sound like a good business practice to me. I won't comment on legality since I have no idea. I would be furious if I made a deposit on anything and then find out that the seller had a change of heart after agreeing to terms and cashing my deposit, just as I would understand that I forfeited my deposit if I, as the buyer, backed out. Seems the seller has all the rights and options in this deal. Just my opinion on the deal. Lance |
| Jason....Classic Dum's |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9230.html Posted At 21:41:45 09/19/2001 maybe I am missunderstanding you but I think you have misunderstoud me Lance, I was the buyer Eric the seller and Steve the person he traded the animal to after receiving my deposit, I didnt back out at all, i lived up to my end of the deal and was going to pay him off early, but a week after we set the deal and two days after cashing my deposit Eric traded the retic to Steve, so the seller cashed my deposit then traded the animal else where, so I hope that clears thing up I know alot of my posts are confusing I hope that helps Steve Schindler, yes Steve was aware of the deal but for all I know when Eric made the trade he told Steve I backed out and that was why he was trading, when I called Steve to let him know what happened I never asked what Erics reasons were, because I didnt feel it was fair to steve to throw him in the middle any more then he was, he is a third party that is indirectly involved and same as I am not posting his real name I didnt feel it right to try and make him play referee, to me its just a respect thing, I only explained my side and when I did so Steve sounded very surprised, the impression I got from his reaction was he thought I backed out, also maybe I am wrong but I think he will be very carefull about the favors his does for Eric in the future, to try and make up for Eric, Steve did offer me a neonate het retic for the 650 but wouldnt go under 1000 on the 7fter from Eric because that was what he had into it, I told him I wasnt going to pay 1000 for an animal I placed a deposit on for 650 and wasnt going to back track with the neonate, like I said what Eric told him, I dunno, knowing "steves" rep I would assume Eric told him I backed out, but I wasnt looking to be nosey, I just simply wanted to let him know what happened so he will re-think any favors he may do for Eric in the future, hope this clears things up, Jason |
| Peter Gardner |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9242.html Posted At 07:20:41 09/20/2001 I know I would be really bumped if I would have experienced this myself. Especially since you gave Eric or his partner your help in incubating eggs by long distance calls etc. I agree, Eric Glenn and partner are bad business! |
| Eric Glenn |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9256.html Posted At 19:29:13 09/20/2001 We don't have a business, and are not full time breeders, nor have we ever claimed such. My girlfriend and I are hobbyists and are not out to make $, but also aren't for losing any either...There's always two sides! Friends he says? I've seen the guy at shows and spoken on the phone a total of maybe 5 times or so over a period of three years. We've never hung out, nor spoken of anything other than this 'deal' and his Dumeril boas (I sold him a sub adult once) and the conversation he had w/my girlfriend lasted maybe an hour regarding JCP clutch incubation period. The word "friend" never applied here, only an acquaintance, which I don't mean in ill faith. Point being, when we ran the ad for the het @ the price we paid no one was willing to pay it. Then we lowered it, and again until it was 1/3 less than what we paid. Sure enough, Jason wanted it-$650.00 over 6 months and the snake was already sent to "Steve". Then we realized that "Steve" was willing to trade us for another baby, (upon me asking so) and it was a realization that we wouldn't lose $ that way. And a lot of it. I emailed Jason back, explained it all and apologized profusely then all of a sudden his story changed that he was going to pay me at the MARS, the rest in November (Again, this only after we backed out), then several emails back and forth he claimed "other people" were involved (sympathy plea?) and that he needed me to "bring the $ to the show" because he's "short on cash". Not the sort of thing you want to hear from a guy who was to still have a balance of $600.00. Hello well that is up to you guys I would still like him but if that is what you are going to do please bring the money to the show on saturday and also since you are backing out I must ask for the extra ten for the cost of the money order and overnight shipping, please have it in cash beacuse I will need the money for the show, thanks Jason Jason @ Danica Classic Dum's www.Dumerils.com Hey dude, whats happeing, I would really like that animal, I set things loose like that incase something happened on my end so I wouldnt be late paying, but this coming saturday at the show I was going to let you know I would have the money for you earlier I had a couple of things I had to get straight I was going to pay you the hundred in october and the differance in the beginning of novmber, also you said the time wasnt a problem because it is at "Steve" place and when I spoke to him he said the same as well, because I was working a deal with him to get a 100% het female as soon as I had you paid and also I wouldnt this this 100% het male from you because of his size because I have a 66%het female that will be of size next year, so I would really like that animal and you already have my deposit so I would really apreciate if we could keep things the way they are and ill have you paid off by the middle to end of nov, let me know thanks Jason Jason @ Danica Classic Dum's www.Dumerils.com Hey man I have to ask you to follow through with this deal, I see your point but I hope you can see my side of this, the fact that you guys would be loosing money on this has nothing to do with me, that was something that should have been thought out prior to you posting it on kingsnake, and when we spoke you said it was no big deal you didnt care about that, you guys offered the animal at that price, I jumped on it, we worked out the deal, I sent you the money and you confirmed you got it so if you dont consider the verbal argeemnent binding, I am sorry but when you got my money it was bond, I didnt go into detail about any of this earlier because I didnt see it realivant at that point, but there is other people involved in this on my end, a freind of mine has 2 100% het females and no male, he got a trio and lost the male some time after, those two are 7 to 8ft right now so once you confirmed the deal with me and that you had got my money I worked a deal with him to breed this male to his female next year, also the reason I was going to be able to come up with the money sooner is I have a couple people who are investing money with me for this project and the reason they were willing to invest is the breeder loan with my buddy, we would be able to break evan next year and maybe make a few bucks, so if you back out of this I have to go back to him and explain to him that he is going to have to find a male on his own, then after that I am going to have explain to them what happened and hope they dont bail on me(i am sure they will though), so I am going to have several people pissed at me, one person because he thought his worries about finding another adult were over and is counting on me for this male because I already put the deposit on it, and two people who trusted me and agreed to invest with me ONLY because I assured them there wasnt going to be any problems(your not a big name in the buisness so they didnt evan wanna deal because theres to many fake hets floating around) I assured them I knew who you were and trusted you, i put my name on the line here and the people investing with me I know are not going to be willing to put up more money especially if I have to explain this to them, they were skeptical enough to begin with, also I know they are not going to be willing to buy babies that are not going to breed for another two years, they were willing to front the money for the female het and possiblly a pair of het balls because the breeding loan would have paid it all off next year, so I am sorry but the thinking thourghly is something that should have been done prior to posting the ad, and I do have to ask, you made a big point out of the reason you were selling this and the female yellow head because of space , so why all the sudden the trade for more animals? I was extremly excited about this project and also had some people who trusted me backing me on this, so I have to ask you to please see this thing through Eric, if you guys stay in this hobby a long time I can tell this wont be the last time you second guess yourself after the deal is made, I have done it a million times, make a deal with someone and then kick myself in the ass afterwards but once the deal was made its to late, I am sorry you guys are loosing some money but when we spoke you assured me the money wasnt an issue and that was why you had no problem with payment deal, so I must ask please follow this through, Jason Jason @ Danica Classic Dum's www.Dumerils.com Hello, ok ya I can see you would like to break evan on all of this, but Eric once you made the deal with me and excepted my deposit, that animal was sold and the deal was sealed, so you guys should not have been wheeling and dealing with that animal else where, it is just simply bad buisness, as far as the people I was in this with, I spoke to one of them last night and at this point they dont wanna go any further, because as I said before the only reason they were willing is because the breeding loan we would be able to get our money back next year, also I must ask have you ever breed retics? because yes I can assure that pair of female hets will breed and produce next year, so yes we need a male that size or we will be a year behind and as you pointed out look at how the prices are coming, due to the large size and number of eggs they give they are gonna drop fast, I watched it happen with the albino burms they went from a profitable animal to what $35 they were selling for at hamburg and white plains 2 or 3 years ago, ya they have bounced back a little because evereyone got scared and sold off their adults, but my point is they went from where the retics are now to nothing in a very short period of time, I have been in this for 13years now and watched the whole deal with the burms, look at "steve's" website in the spring he posted them at $3500 and now he is selling them at $3000, "another breeder" sold a ton of them in the spring for $2500, till next year they will probally be down to $2000 and the year after that probally 1000 and from there they will drop like a ton of bricks, because right now there is not many albinos breedings happening besides "Steve" and a few other people, most of the albinos so far have come from het to het breedings once all the albinos from the past couple years reach adult hood the market will fall out because they will be producing whole clutches of albinos instead of partial, I understand this as well as the people who were going to help me and thats why they wont go in if we cant break evan next year, as far as the animal being at "steve" he said it wasnt a problem and I was going to send him a little extra for taking care of it once all these deals panned out, as far as me not saying anything to you till after the fact about paying you off early, you didnt evan give me a chance! I trusted you so i figured why waste my time emailing or money calling ld when I will see you this weekand, I was comfortable with the deal because I knew you so I saw no reason to hurry up and tell you we would be closing this deal sooner then planned when I would see you in a few days, as far as our call to "steve" I was trying to make my gf comfortable with the whole deal, she has an 8yr old son already and we have a baby due dec 22 so I wanted to make her comfortable with the deal and she doesnt know who you are but she does know "steve" fairly well and has bought a few animals off him in the past, my end of talking to him was about working some of these other deals with him ( at first before I brought other people in it was for 3 66% possible hets, you can ask him) and we debated the differance between wild caught and imported retics, I never asked him directly about the temperment of your animal, she did that, because considering she has a child already that loves to stick his hands in every cage we got and we have one on the way she wanted to be comfortable with this deal, the area we live in a a very small town that is isolated from the rest of the world, just to give you an idea how isloated normal corns(not nice ones but pet trade junk) sell for $90-110 here, regular pet trde columbian boas sell for $200, ball pythons sell for $100(imported farmed babies you see at the shows there for 10-25),the closest reptile show we have here is 3 and 1/2 hours away at 85-90 mile an hour(all very flat roads here that you can see for miles on so I love to fly) until I got my hets she had never evan heald a retic before, ya I have never breed them but I have raised and had a bunch of retics come and go throughout the years, all she knows of them is the horror stories about how nasty they are, I know differant and personally couldnt have evan cared if the animal was nasty, thats what experiance, sturdy cages and child proof locks are for, and I agree you have nothing to do with the people i was trying to invest with, but I hope you can see my side of this and my fustrations, I have known you and your gf for what two or three years, weve bumped into each other at shows and talked god knows how many times, I mean what a year or two ago on my long distance I sat on the phone with your gf for like an hour or two explaining to her how to incubate jungle carpet eggs and reading various stuff about jungles and what not from books I had and explaining other things to her because I thought we were all freinds, had this deal with been with anyone else would I have gotten all these backgrounds deals going before I had the animal at hand NO, but I trusted you being a freind, my origanal intent was to breed that to my 66% het and see what came out, also origanally I had also spoke to "steve" about buying three possible 66% hets in the spring and doing a payment plan with him for those(you can ask him), then the wheels got turning, and because I trusted you and felt comfortable I brought some other people in and instead of messing with possible hets why not get 100% and we were going to get a pair of het balls as well( i spoke to "Steve" about that this past week, he is out of albino males), all of which with the breeder loan would have been payed for next year, so I hope you can see my fustrations, but yes I have to ask for the extra 10 back as well because you are the one backing out, had the deal gone as planned would I ever have asked for a ten dollar credit toward the animal for the amount of the shipping and money order no, and yes it was my choice to do that but I did that because I wanted you to know I was serious and not one of these impulse people who were going to turn and run on ya after you held the animal awhile for them, also I did it as a favor to you so you wouldnt have to be waiting to cash the check, you say you didnt get it for several days but I have an email from you two days later saying it was in but you didnt have the chance to run to the post office and get it, so it was in your post office a total of three days after we made the deal,so yes if you are backing out I feel I am intiteled to walk away from this %100 debt free, which includes shipping and the cost of the money order, to me its just simply good buisness ethics, I had a guy last year I did that to without him asking, I put a pair of mackolots on the herpauction he won, it was the beginning of august and to hot to ship so we had to wait till the end of the month, in the mean time one of them went down hill and died, I offered the other to him with a partial refund but because we couldnt stick to the origanal deal he wanted his money back so I sent him the amount he sent me and an extra ten for the cost of the money order and shipping because it wasnt his fault we couldnt finish the deal(wasnt really mine either sometimes shit happens) this to me was just simply good buisness ethics, and in the end paid off because he came back to me this year and bought a trio of dumerils, so I hope you can see my fustrations with all this, I dont want any bad blood either but I do feel as though I am getting screwed here, we worked a deal and then you trade/sell or what ever the animal out from under me, I was very excited about the whole project so now I am let down and look like an ass infront of other people who are going to be pissed at me( and no they are not going to be understanding or willing to coof up the extra money they are less understanding and more hard headed then I am, I know these people), so I hope you can see my side, as well it is in good faith, jason Jason @ Danica Classic Dum's www.Dumerils.com Eric thats not evan close to what I said and evan if it was common sense tells you once you got my deposit thats it, its a sealed deal, I also remeber you asking me at the very end of our conversation before we hung up "so its a deal" I said yes its a deal, you said no prob Ill hold it for you till I get your deposit im not worried about the money because its a space issue, dude I would greatly apreciate it if we could quit going back and forth were both fustrated, its over with, we are getting no where, you guys have made up your mind, since this is what you want to do could you just bring cash to the show? I could use the money for the show, we are short on cash and that would help out, that of course is your choice but i dont accept personal checks, bank cert only, so let me know , thanks Jason Jason @ Danica Classic Dum's www.Dumerils.com ________________________________________________________________ There are the emails in full. I want to point out that only after a certain point did Jason mention he'd pay sooner, and that there were others involved. He also mentioned in addition to paying me earlier that (In one of these long emails) that he was short on $ and needed me to bring it to the show, which I did. I said "thanks for understanding" and his reply was silence with a sinister grin. "Ill pay sooner" and "bring $ to show, I need it" are two different ends of the spectrum. Besides, with all these poss hets he refers to and the 100% hets how can he be short on $ if they were all in line to be paid for next. MY LAST NOTE: (Eric) I am not out to rip any one off and have never done so before. Sometimes I get in over my head w/this overwhelming hobby and realize I need to sell animals back or out. This case, once I placed a 'great deal' ad I then realized that if I traded for a baby I would at least not lose $. Call me selfish, but I only backed out of this with a $50.00 deposit in my hand,(not hundreds in to it) which isn't even 10% (most breeders ask 20% down w/no refund)of the whole deal. That's all he could pay at that time so I had no idea, nor did he lead on, that once I cancelled the agreement he would then say there were 'others involved'. Too ironic, again. There was only one phone conversation between us and Jason mentioned he'd only be able to do it over 6 months, that's only $25.00 per week on a $650.00 snake (dropped from $1000.00). Remember, the snake was already @ "Steve" and this meant that for 6 months "Steve" would have to house, feed, and maintain it. I agreed on the phone to this, but while it set in later that week I realized it wasn't fair on anybody's end. In one of these emails he states that it's ok if we go ahead just send the $ or bring it to the show. I don't know why this is here on the BOI (again this is not a business) but when I saw him at the show and handed the $ over I thought it was done. This whole deal was 2 weeks start to finish and I think this guy changes face along with his mind, as quickly as does the weather. We're all human and I ask of you people to not judge me and instead put yourselves in my shoes....Jason got his money last Saturday! Sincerely, - Eric and Sharlene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| Jason...Classic Dum's |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9258.html Posted At 20:00:35 09/20/2001 Eric first off this(below) shouldnt have been posted in the forums that is not the place for these kinds of things, second we made a deal you broke, what is so hard for you to understand about that????? "Again, this only after WE BACKED OUT" your words my man and that says it all, so if you would like to post all the emails and regurgatate everything I have said please feel free, your not debating you broke the deal so what is your point???? below is his post from the forum anything with << >> is me Friends? I've seen the guy at shows and spoken on phone a total of maybe 5 times< Point being, when we ran the ad for the het @ the price we paid no one was willing to pay it. Then we lowered it, and again until it was 1/3 less than what we paid. Sure enough, Jason wanted it - $650.00 over 6 months< Check the BOI for more info and all the emails, not just the ones that Jason chose to post.< - Eric G. here is the link to that incase anyone would like to check out his post http://www.kingsnake.com/forum/retic/messages/4002.html so Eric I have to ask are these your words??? "Again, this only after we backed out" yes?? no?? are these yours?? what how about these?? "You're obviously pissed, and rightly so I ad, that I reconsidered and am not willing to allow someone the pleasure of this killer deal. I (we) will not let the that money slip through my hands for someone else's benefit. That's the WHOLE thing" and I believe that says it all Eric"I reconsidered and am not willing to allow someone the pleasure of this killer deal" blaent disrespect for our deal also I must that you for sharing this eric"..."Steve" was willing to trade us for another baby,(upon me asking so)" i didnt know if you offered the animal to him or he offered a trade for it but now I know you took my money and kept wheeling and dealing with the animal, Thanks for sharing!!! once agian "I reconsidered and am not willing to allow someone the pleasure of this killer deal" your words, I should have simply posted those and the few other lines in my original post, because that was all i needed to show well I just happened to refresh prior to posting this and first off I like the rearangment of the emails, I must say it looks nice Eric, 20% less then 10 down who cares a deal is a deal and if you cant stand by your word what kind of man are you???, so yes I do hope they judge you, you talk about it being at Steves for 6 months like I said I was going to send him some extra money and I spoke to him and he had no problem with it, also as far as the show I want to point out you wouldnt evan look me in the eyes and your g/f wouldnt evan look in the direction of my table, and she completly ovoided the area of my table, you both knew you were wrong and it showed anyway for everyone who has posted, taken the time to read this mess and also all the people who have emailed about it I want to thank you for you time! have a nice night Jason |
| Eric Glenn |
Re: Seems vengeful (inside)
9259.html Posted At 20:47:04 09/20/2001 "I just simply wanted to let him know what happened so he will re-think any favors he may do for Eric in the future, hope this clears things up, Jason" Again it seems that Jason is going out of his way to assume the position of the meddling, and indignant sour minded person that he seems to be. Although, this quote is no threat to me considering I have been in good standings with the breeder we're keeping secret for about 4 or 5 years now. This is petty IMO and I believe that once I handed his money back to him and apologized again that that was the end of it. Why not talk to me @ the show Jason? More that doesn't add up (although minuete): "One time spent a several hours on the phone with her long distance on my bill." Then, "I mean what a year or two ago on my long distance I sat on the phone with your gf for like an hour or two". Big difference IMO between one hour and several! |
| Eric Glenn |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9264.html Posted At 21:20:58 09/20/2001 "Again, this only after we backed out" yes?? no?? are these yours??" Yes, I already stated that Jason. "and I believe that says it all Eric"I reconsidered and am not willing to allow someone the pleasure of this killer deal" blaent disrespect for our deal" That's why I said I was sorry and gave the money back @ the show. "i didnt know if you offered the animal to him or he offered a trade for it but now I know you took my money and kept wheeling and dealing with the animal, Thanks for sharing!!!" How did I 'wheel and deal' if, I repeat again, you had your money back? "the show I want to point out you wouldnt evan look me in the eyes and your g/f wouldnt evan look in the direction of my table, and she completly ovoided the area of my table, you both knew you were wrong and it showed" This is one of the more interesting ones...I went to YOUR table to see if Shar had dropped the $ off to you yet while I was wandering. You said "No", so I got her and handed you the money myself. That's when you sat there in silence and grinned. So if I didn't look you in the face then how did you know who handed you the money? I just want to reassure you Jason that it was me, I handed it to you! |
| Jason...Classic Dum's |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9269.html Posted At 21:51:28 09/20/2001 for some reason everything I inserted didnt show up in the post above so ill do it again and this time it will be inside [-hgj-] Friends? I've seen the guy at shows and spoken on phone a total of maybe 5 times [-ah no it was more then that and you know it-] or so over about three years. We've never hung out, nor spoken of anything other than this 'deal' and his Dumeril Boas [-oh we have spoken about many other things Eric-] (I sold him a sub adult once)and the conversation he had w/my girlfriend was maybe an hour [-wrong again and how would you know you wernt evan home??-] regarding JCP clutch incubation. The word 'friend' never applied here, only an acquaintance, which I don't mean in ill faith. I've spoken to you people on this forum more than I've EVER talked to him. [-could be true I dont know how long you have been on there-] Point being, when we ran the ad for the het @ the price we paid no one was willing to pay it. Then we lowered it, and again until it was 1/3 less than what we paid. Sure enough, Jason wanted it - $650.00 over 6 months [- yup that was the deal!!-] and the snake was already sent to "Steve". Then we realized that "Steve" was willing to trade us for another baby,(upon me asking so)[-maybe I gave you to much credit I though maybe he offered something for it and you took it but now I know how low you are, that you kept wheeling and dealing after you had my money-] and it was a realization that we wouldn't lose $ that way. And a lot of it. I emailed Jason back, explained it all[-wrong you blaently lied and told me you were keeping it for yourself-] and apologized profusely then all of a sudden his story changed that he was going to pay me at the MARS [-like I said before you never gave me the chance to tell you that, you simply had that this is the way it is attitude and if you dont like it screw you-], the rest in November (Again, this only after we backed out)[-ah the truth shall set you free-], then several emails back and forth he claimed "other people" were involved (sympathy plea?)[-ah no not at all, thanks to you I lost my albino retic project and the albino ball project we were working on, THANKS ERIC!!-] and that he needed me to "bring the $ to the show" b/c he's "short on cash". Not the sort of thing you want to hear from a guy who was to still have a balance of $600.00. [-ummm was I late on any payments?? Ill answer that one, NO!!! so my finacal statis is none of your buisness-] Check the BOI for more info and all the emails, not just the ones that Jason chose to post.[-well thanks for posting those are you just trying to help explain my side of this??-] - Eric G. from your origanal post above "I think this guy changes face along with his mind, as quickly as does the weather." how long did it take you to think that; clever lol, but if I remember correctly your the one who made a deal with me took my money then traded the animal else where, so im the one who changes like the weather?? go figure "Again it seems that Jason is going out of his way to assume the position of the meddling, and indignant sour minded person that he seems to be." so you think this is why I called and explained things to him??? ahhh NO!!! this would be why "the breeder we're keeping secret" so next time no one will have to keep his name secret because hell know better then to do you favors that might cause him to have his name drug through the mud with yours, to me, i thought it was a curtisy call, because I know I sure would have apreciated the call if I was in his shoes "Why not talk to me @ the show Jason?" what would it have accoplished? your screw you this is the way it is and I dont care if you like it or not, attitude, shows just as well here as in the emails you sent, so besides create a seen what good would it have done?? "Big difference IMO between one hour and several!" can we say grasping at straws?? anyway this is becoming a waiste of time, but yes I hope the people reading will judge you because IMO if they dont they could be next to be run through the ringer by you, anyway thanks all for reading, Jason |
| Eric Glenn |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9275.html Posted At 22:49:26 09/20/2001 You're blabbing again and your answers suggest an individual that's 'wining' b/c he didn't get his way. By the way, "Steve" confirmed by phone, before the MARS (right after I emailed you to back out, admittedly) that he hadn't even had a chance to answer your emails. He had been @ a show all weekend long. Those words are verbatim Jason. Quit while you think you're ahead and leave "Steve" out of this. |
| mike |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9277.html Posted At 23:19:02 09/20/2001 After reading this I would NEVER deal with Eric. Eric accepted the deposit and that made the deal good. He made a deal and should have stuck with it. It seems he only pulled out of the deal to get MORE OUT of it and screw Jason. Very unethical. |
| Randall Turner |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9281.html Posted At 02:28:11 09/21/2001 I thought I would mention I am the one who (aboved mentioned) purchased his pair of burmese pythons. I sent a deposit to Eric Glenn and then had a few problems arrise and said to him I needed to back out on the deal and said to keep the deposit. He said okay, hope things get better, a couple weeks later they mailed me (the Glenns) and asked how I was doing, I told them and they offered to sell me the burmese pythons again minus the previus deposit, I said that would be great and they even agreed to cover the shipping if it was over what we guessed. I have had nothing but a great deal with them. I also plan on purchasing a couple of het retics from them in the future. I would do the deal over again and will do more deals in the future. What everyone needs to remember is that you will always have a bad deal go once in a while including top prominent dealers and breeders. I think as outsiders which all of us are except the Glenns and Classic Dums is that we do not know the whole truth either way. I wish good luck to both parties involved and I hope the bad blood subsides. |
| Lance Hartman |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9284.html Posted At 09:52:47 09/21/2001 Randall, I agree that if you are in this business for a while you will have a bad experience or two. That's just a fact of dealing with a large number of people. But, Eric has had no problem posting if he's had a problem with a breeder and so turnabout is fair play. In your situation you had to back out and he KEPT the deposit. That's what a deposit is for. He let you back out and kept the deposit. He did a nice thing for you later and that's great but he didn't go out of his way at the beginning. I think Jason has every right to be upset with Eric since he backed out of a deal. Eric has admitted he backed out and that Jason should be upset. I don't know what Eric's point is at this point, other than basically saying crap happens my bad deal with it. It's fine when Eric is dealing the crap, but when he's on the receiving end he has a different take on it. Just my opinion. Lance |
| Jason...Classic Dum's |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9289.html Posted At 18:20:23 09/21/2001 well if I sound as though i am babbling because because I am winning or what ever it is probally because I am completly confused as to why you posted anything at all Eric, all you have done in every post you have posted is damage any kind of side or defense you may have had, same as in the last post you put up, because the ONLY!!! email steve ever got from us was about 2 months ago concerning a yellow headed retic, I never once emailed him about any of the situation or anything invlolved in between us about this deal, NEVER ONCE!!! I would like to see those emails!!!! if that is what he told you, I am telling you he lied, because there is no emails I assure and promise you, 2 months ago about a yellow head was the last time I emailed him, he never received any email from us since then, EVERY conversation or way of comunication between us and steve since the email 2 months ago has been via phone, so either you or he is lieing, so if you cant post and foward me those emails I suggest YOU drop it because if he is lieing I will be more then happy to post his name here, so once again I will say every conversation was via phone and if he is telling you I didnt talk to him till after you backed out wrong again, I spoke to him about 20 minutes after I got off the phone with you, considering the animal was at his house do you really think I would have sent that deposit without speaking to him first??? Eric I have been around for far more years then you, I didnt fall off the wagon yesterday, have a nice day Eric!!! thanks all for taking the time to read what SHOULDNT evan be here once again, Jason |
| Jason...Classic Dum's |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9291.html Posted At 19:53:23 09/21/2001 one last thing Eric, you say I act like I won or something, sorry my freind but neither of us won in this one, maybe you didnt think I was a freind but I thought of you and your g/f as one, so neither of us won in this one Eric |
| Jason...Classic Dum's |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9340.html Posted At 19:26:33 09/23/2001 Reptiles & Amphibians - Insects & Arachnids - Fish & Aquaria - Birds - Critters - Dogs - Cats - Horses - Exotics kingsnake europe kingsnake.tv!!! kingsnake canada Breeders/Dealers/Stores - Classifieds - Forums - Chat - Organizations - Events New Products - Care Sheets/FAQ's/Features - Bookstore - Magazine Rack - HerpIndex - Mailing Lists - WebRadio - NRAAC - Adoption - Recommended - kingsnake europe - USENET - HerpSearch - EMAIL - Help - Privacy Statement click HERE to submit your site Add HerpSearch to your site NEW!!! Frogs of Costa Rica Screensaver!!! Click here to download... Reticulated Python for sale!!! Ocean City, N.J. U.S.A. Posted by Eric Glenn [email protected] on September 23, 2001 at 17:11:02: Hello, I have for sale a baby male 100% het for albino reticulated python. This is a BEAUTIFUL animal from Bob Clarks' 2001 TigerxAlbino clutch. This is not a tiger het, he's a Yellow Head het with an exceptionally gentle demeanor. Email for price and any questions please. Payment plans available.<<<<<<<<<< Thank you, - Eric |
| Lance Hartman |
Re: Eric Glenn and Sharlene Fabiano (bad buisness)
9355.html Posted At 09:44:17 09/24/2001 I saw that ad too and I must admit that I'm totally confused. Lance |