| Author | Subject: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome |
| dave mcgowen | Posted At 00:18:57 09/29/2001
This really pains me to post a "bad guy" notice, in the past I have only posted positive statements. I guess I have been fortunate up til now to have dealt with good people. Paul Miller had several captive bred Biak Green Tree Python babies on Herpauction recently. I have always wanted one and saw this as my opportunity, I was one of the winning bidders and immediatly sent him a MO for the snake plus $35 for shipping. Well the Green Tree arrived dead and I was shocked that the snake had not been shipped in a standard insulated box. Instead it was shipped in an Airborne "Express Pack" which is rectangular and 3 INCHES thick! The snake was inside a sandwich box that directly contacted the top and bottom of the box. No cold pack (temps high 80's) and no room for styro insulation to minimize temp changes or provide cushioning. I feel that for $35 shipping I could have at least gotten a box! Anyways, Paul refuses to replace the snake or provide a refund. He says that live arrival is not guaranteed unless I had shipped through Delta. Now I certainly realize that I am assuming a risk by shipping through the mail, but my feeling is that Paul Miller caused the death of the snake by not packing it appropriatly. I have received snakes from at least 20 different people and shipped many times my self without a single casualty. Of course each of these shipments was made in a styrofoam lined box with plenty of cushioning. As I told Paul, even my $15 corn snakes get a decent box. If the consensus runs against me here I will apologize and back off. But for now I want to illustrate how Paul Miller ships his snakes and the fact that he will not stand behind them. Painful lesson learned. thanks, dave   |
| dave mcgowen |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9499.html Posted At 00:47:49 09/29/2001 I would add that Paul offered a replacement at $200 which I view as inadequate since the purchase price was $280 and I beleive he should bear full responsibility. |
| TheVipersHouse |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9502.html Posted At 05:22:01 09/29/2001 yes i would have to agree shipping ur way was risky but to me there was norisk as long it was over night delivery but they packing issue is the problem he took no care in or thought when he packed the snake up he should have used a real box ( not a letter box ) to ship the reptile i fully agree with u Dave he should be held fully responsible and should #1 replace the snake ( with better packing this time ) or #2 refund ur money in full me i have done many upon many dealings with internet sales and shipping and if the reptiles are sent over night delivery ( with exception to delivery delays ) i ALWAYS garuntee live arrival ( in over night/ next day deliveries) so in fact dave ur post is correct unless he takes responsibility ... SOUNDS TO ME AND FROM PICTURE ABOVE THE PACKING KILLED THE ANIMAL NOT THE DELIVERY ....... ESPECIALLY WITH A HIGH RISK STRESS FACTOR FOR A SNAKE OF THAT KIND ......SHAME ON U PAUL MILLER U NEED TO DO THE RIGHT THING .......... |
| Richard Hebron |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9505.html Posted At 07:50:04 09/29/2001 Past experience may shed some light here. I have in the past shipped many herps through all the legal means available. Over the years though I have had only 2 issues (deaths) that I believed were caused by shipping situations. They both involved overnight shipping. Although packed well both these times I did not label the containers "live animals protect from heat or cold". I believe in such situations (especially hot periods) boxes and such can be left in direct sunlight or on a hot tarmac for a long period of time without regard for package contents. Shipping in 80 degree plus air temps does not mean a herp was not in a higher temp situation. Ever sit in a car in traffic, on a hot day, with no A/C? Many herpers do not label contents when using overnight services because most will not be accepted by the carrier. I agree that no Guarantee for this type of shipping should be given but I personally would have packed the chondro much better then what you show in your pics of how the snake was recieved. Overtime I would guess many herpers because of a good shipping track record, with using overnight services, probably do forget the risks and do not pack as well ,expecting a possibility the herps may not be in a safe environment for the entire trip, leaving them less protected for situations encountered out of the norm. I myself gave the same response ,to one person who lost a herp I sent, as the shipper concerned in this situation did to you. Over time I now believe I shipped during a higher then normal temp period and should have waited a few days. I have since changed my shipping practices and actually hold off from shipping when I do not feel an adequate time. This actually has caused many buyers to demand ship dates causing me to refund their money rathar then risk having a herp perish in transit. Hope you two can resolve this issue amicably. |
| Michael Heinrich |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9508.html Posted At 10:42:47 09/29/2001 I rarely jump into these kind of posts, I usually only ad something if I've personally had firsthand experience with the person in question. But this time, especially with those photos, I just have to say that's the worst example of shipping packaging I've ever seen! I pack better than than that just to make Chicago area deliveries in my own car. Mike |
| John Hedger |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9509.html Posted At 11:19:24 09/29/2001 Dave, Although it does look like the snake wasn't packed with very much care I would say part of the blame goes to you Dave, IF Paul prefered to ship Delta Dash and you chose this cheaper method to cut costs. Whether you paid $280 or $2000...a baby green tree python is a very delicate animal to ship. When I have bred them in the past, I personally never shipped them until they were about 6 months of age, and then, ONLY via Delta Dash. However,I always shipped them packed very carefully and individually in small plastic pet containers with a branch siliconed in place...then containers shrouded with crumpled newspaper, all within a cardboard-covered styro fish box. This animal was definitely not packed well for a baby chondro!...a baby amazon tree might have made it, but way too risky for a baby chondro of that value I would say. My dealings with Paul have all been good and very satisfying. This is an unfortunate incident...A risk was taken, and it failed. If Paul had highly recommended Dash and you opted for the cheaper Airbourne, I would say a $200 settlement is a fair offer. If Paul was the one originally wanting to ship Airbourne, then, if I were him, I would refund the full amount or replace the animal. I hope you all resolve this! John Hedger |
| Greg Riso |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9519.html Posted At 17:20:41 09/29/2001 I shipped a Malaysian Red Blood Python to Arizona last month in an insulated box overnight with a cold pack. The buyer told me the temperatures were 110 F there so with the cold pack I ran into the other extreme. The snake was to cold on arrival and had died. I instantly refunded the $125 to the customer because I firmly believe it's my responsibility and no one elses to ship a healthy animal and for the buyer to receive a healthy animal. I don't thnk anyone sends money to receive a dead snake and Paul Miller should make good on it. It seems ethics come at a premium nowadays. At least I know one person I'll never buy from. |
| Steve Schindler |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9520.html Posted At 18:33:41 09/29/2001 Richard, I have one question regarding this statement you made in response to Dave's post "Many herpers do not label contents when using overnight services because most will not be accepted by the carrier. I agree that no Guarantee for this type of shipping should be given" If the seller sends something that is not properly labled (just to get it recieved by a co that would not normaly accept it) I would deem him even more responsible, and insist even more so on a refund. Just looking for clarification. I think I know what you meant but i wanted to be sure. |
| Anonymous |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9521.html Posted At 18:45:31 09/29/2001 IMO that snake could've been shipped already dead. No one knows for sure if the snake cause of death was due to shipper. Maybe he had a dead snake and found someone to buy the dead snake with no guarantee of doa on shipping. And since he isnt willing to refund the whole amount paid he probably just wants get back what he paid for the snake. |
| Bob Barker |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9524.html Posted At 20:25:01 09/29/2001 Okay, with the exception of a few replies to this post, I have to say some people are just plain stupid. Obviously, this "seller" was a complete idiot!! How can some of you say that Dave is part to blame??? Delta-Dash or not!! First off, Delta wouldn't even have accepted an animal packed like that, NO WAY!!! I've shipped & received hundreds of animals via Delta-Dash, USPS, UPS, Airborne Express, & Fed-Ex, and before anyone starts bashing me for using "some" of those carriers, check with some of the BIG-BIG BOYS, and see who they prefer. Proper packing is a MUST for shipping live animals!! Not only for the benefit of the consumer but more importantly for the animals sake!! This was a BAD CASE of an IDIOT shipper, NOBODY"S FAULT BUT HIS/HERS. Let's wake up John, who are "we" to put a price tag on an animal, whether it's a ATB or a Green Tree, they are all of "equal" value as far as their lives are concerened, and this packer was an idiot PERIOD!!! God I'm ticked off!! : ) |
| John Hedger |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9527.html Posted At 23:46:32 09/29/2001 Bob, What I said had nothing to do with the price of the animal. I was making the point that a chondro is a more delicate snake (ie.,"less hardy") to ship than an amazon tree boa,colubrid,etc.--their tails are more delicate, I believe they need to be shipped on some kind of a perch,etc. I believe in my post I mentioned that it was apparent that Paul didn't pack the chondro with very much care. Perhaps the snake would have made it if packed more carefully--we don't even know any particulars about where it was shipped and what the weather was!! My main point was that, if it were me, I would have chosen Dash for a snake as delicate as a baby chondro...it's faster, it's safer and it's insured (at least somewhat!). I'm sorry you're pissed Bob!! Peace John |
| Just Reptiles |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9531.html Posted At 02:18:34 09/30/2001 There is no question here of where the responsibility lies. I have seen this so many times in this business, a shipper will only guarantee live delivery if shipped a certain way. If a shipper does not guarantee live delivery with certain shipping methods, than that shipper should not use any of those methods. Most customers are not aware of the risks associated with using the less inexpensive way of shipping, they just see the price difference. When a customer purchases a live animal from a seller, until that buyer has that animal alive and healthy in their possession, that animal is still the property of the seller, and therefore still their responsibility. This is a simple matter of someone not wanting to turn down a sale, so they will ship any method you want even though they know that this may be the final outcome. The seller should send a replacement animal or refund without delay. My opinion for what it's worth |
| Tim Bowles |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9536.html Posted At 07:57:48 09/30/2001 Just Reptiles, Since you obviously cant read and post you real name as the rules state, let me get this straight. I have shipped many animals without a problem yet. But you think the seller is responsible for any mishandeling of shippers? How can you justify this statement? Sellers cant control airline mishandeling and lost packages and delayed flights. Once its out of my hands as the seller thats it, its your animal. Unless it falls into a set of preagreed upon guidlelines for live arrival. Which in this case it was agreed no live arrival due to Dave wanting to save a few bucks. Its not a simple matter of someone not wanting to turn down a sale. Paul honored the auction and gave Dave the choice of shippers. He chose cheap. Granted it could have been packed better. But still Dave chose it. Paul's offer to sell him another GTP for $200 is a good offer on a sale that had no live arrival garuntee. Since the average going market for them is closer to $450 and up. The lesson to be learned is cheaper is not always better so dont be a penny pincher when it comes to shipping. Buyer and seller. Shipping insured is a joke and waist of money. Try to get money back from one of these shippers and you will find it WON'T happen under any circumstances. |
| Chas Milner |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9537.html Posted At 08:31:46 09/30/2001 Tim Bowles, Some of what you said makes sense, and this statement you made is great. "I have shipped many animals without a problem yet. But you think the seller is responsible for any mishandeling of shippers? How can you justify this statement? Sellers cant control airline mishandeling and lost packages and delayed flights. Once its out of my hands as the seller thats it, its your animal." Looking for clarification here, does that mean that I could assume the buyer is then responsible for those same extremes you are excusing the seller from? Does that also mean that I can take a snake, put it in a UPS envelope and drop it in the nearest mailbox? The animals death would be the buyers fault, right? "Once its out of my hands as the seller thats it, its your animal." I am very new to internet buying of reptiles, and I must say, I would gladly do business with Just Reptiles. I would not have known any more than Dave that a delivery could even have come out like this. I would make the "poor" assumption that the sender had a clue as to what they were doing, and would warn me as to this risk. Otherwise I would assume that the price was simply a matter of how long it took to get delivery, not whether or not the animal was dead! Why would I spend hundreds of dollars for a dead animal?? That makes no sense! I also want to add, while looking through these boards I have started to get a feel for those that I will...and those I will NOT being spending any money with. I ONLY want to do business with people knowledgable about what they are doing, because I am admittedly new to this. Just the same as I will except NO EXCUSES from a restaraunt that gives me food poisoning! They should no what they are doing, or they should NOT be doing it!! |
| Ron Radloff |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9538.html Posted At 09:31:33 09/30/2001 This was an interesting thread. I now know that most are in for the money and don't care for the animals safety. Paul clearly was negligent and should provide a complete refund.. period. Reguardless how you choose to ship the animals should be packaged properly. I have received many herps via Airborne and all were in proper boxes. I agree with one of the posters above, that animal may have been packed dead!! If we use the system that another poster suggests.. everyone would ship dead herps.How can a shipper say "once I ship it yours" I know who I'll never buy from.I guess the term "I'll stand behind my animals" just means he won't stand in front of them.. Paul, Paul, shame on you... not because you refuse to replace the animal but because you've been doing this for years and should know better. |
| Bluegrass Herp - Kris Mays |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9539.html Posted At 10:05:57 09/30/2001 I hope Paul and Dave can work this out. I do have one point to make concerning shipping animals. My policy on the shipment of snakes is fairly simple. It's my belief that when a customer purchases an animal it is my responsibility to get the animal to them alive and healthy. I GUARANTEE live arrival and don't hold the shipping company responsible. IF there were to be a problem during shipping (ie. lost for days, etc), I would give a full refund to the customer or replace the animal, and file a claim with the shipping company myself. It really amazes me when people ship animals and if there's a problem their attitude is "too bad, that animal was yours...You need to call the shipping company." That defies logic. If you order a VCR online and it's broken during shipping, you don't call UPS, you call the original supplier of the VCR. They would replace it or give you a refund. They wouldn't say "Sorry, your SOS. CALL UPS!!" Anyway, I think to have integrity in this industry and to be an honest businessperson, you guarantee live arrival and you don't try to pass the blame to others if there's a problem. The customers are purchasing LIVE, HEALTHY animals, not paperweights. When they open the box they should receive what they originally intended to purchase, not a box of trash. Just my opinions on shipping in general. I'm sure Paul and Dave will work this out. |
| Tom Chambers |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9540.html Posted At 10:26:25 09/30/2001 A few words: Unbelievable! Who else packs such a beautiful little animal so piss poorly? Noone I know or would do business with, that's for sure. A FULL refund is due with an apology for the negligence. MOST businesses of ANY kind state "FOB Origin" for freight. This means that once the property has left the seller, if something goes wrong in TRANSIT, it is the responsibility of the buyer to recover their damages from the shipper or responsible party. In this case, that all goes out the window because the problem was caused prior to shipping when the animal was improperly packed. Paul Miller caused all the problems here and is SOLELY (sp?) responsible to make the buyer WHOLE. Yes, WHOLE...not 200 bucks, but all of it....including shipping, because THAT is what caused the problem in the first place. I DO have a big smile on my face though for a gentleman that had a different problem with Mr. Miller though! PBM, looks like the best thing that could have happened for you......probably would have packed your animal the same way! Hope ya found an awesome GTP since then! Very sad to see an animal treated this way. Peace - TC TC Reptile |
| Tim Bowles |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9542.html Posted At 10:45:20 09/30/2001 Chas Read on a little bit further in my post. "Granted it could have been packed better." I think that says what you where looking for in the way of clarification. I dont pack that way and I won't pack that way. Also a little more for you to help you understand "Unless it falls into a set of preagreed upon guidelines for live arrival." Which in this case was not, due to the buyers cheaper choice. But Paul knows better and should not have sent it in that package form. If you chose a cheaper shipping method that I dont use routinley than yes its your problem for those same extremes. I state very clearly to all I sell to that I use a certain shipper and use proper packing which I tell them all up front. Thats why I can and do guaruntee live arrival, when shipped my way. Not in the way you described. But if you insist on saving a few bucks I will still pack it the right way and you will have no live arrival guarntee. Chas please read the whole post not just a sentence or 2 and never assume anything when buying. ASK very specific questions about every aspect of your purchase. Ignorance at any level is unfortunate and no excuse. |
| dan felice |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9547.html Posted At 12:08:43 09/30/2001 no way, no how. i've packed bait better than that. i read all these posts and am amazed that anyone could think that dave is even REMOTELY responsible for the unbelieveably careless way this animal was shipped! you gotta be kidding me. i don't have a clue as to what paul was thinking when he sent out a live animal in an envelope, but he had better think again. a small cardboard box and a little insulation would have taken, what, five minutes and about 1 dollar??? give me a break. paul is guilty as charged. |
| Bob Barker |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9549.html Posted At 12:22:28 09/30/2001 2 Sentences is all it took, Airborne did NOT kill this animal!! This was not a case of "carrier mis-handling" the animal was in an ENVELOPE already, c'mon!! The packer/shipoper/seller kileed this animal!! I've shipped & received 100's of animals through Airborne with NO DOA's, this clearly is not the carriers fault, nor is it Dave's for wanting to go "cheaper", although I do agree w/ what John said as far as going Dash on a Green Tree, but as a shipper I would feel comfortable shipping Airborne or Fed-Ex, just due to the fact that I know I'd be packing w/ the animals safety and comfort in mind. John, I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to single you out, you made valid points, and the "$" amount was a mis-understanding, so "peace" to you as well. : )BUT if I we're you, I'd NEVER do biz w/ this guy Paul again, his shipping practices (in this case) has proven to all of us, if he ships like this once, he'd do it again, and once is enough. I agree w/ all of you who have stated the shipper is obviously at fault. This is just one of the many cases of idiot shippers. The only way I'd ship something packed this way would be if I was shipping one of Afghanistans extremists. |
| BB |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9550.html Posted At 12:32:34 09/30/2001 Oh yeah, when I said "envelope" I was refering to the 3" thick cardboard thingy, that has been "in-correctly" referred to as a box. |
| Chas Milner |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9553.html Posted At 12:57:12 09/30/2001 Tim, I read your message in full. In fact I have read it full full twice now, and your second message. Saying, "Granted it could have been packed better.", still was not relieving the supposed fault from the buyer. Let's use the statement in its proper text, "Paul honored the auction and gave Dave the choice of shippers. He chose cheap. Granted it could have been packed better. But still Dave chose it. Paul's offer to sell him another GTP for $200 is a good offer on a sale that had no live arrival garuntee. " My statement was and is, that you are saying it is the buyer's fault. Saying it could have been packaged better, was not relieving that responsibility, you understand that right? As I said also, I am VERY NEW to animal purchases via the internet, I am not a business, nor even a hobbiest, I am a pet owner that cherishes each animal I get, and rarely have more than a couple at a time. If I purchase an animal, and forgive me if this is unreasonable to ask for Tim, but I expect that animal to be healthy to the best of the seller's ability, and I DEFINATELY expect it living!! If you had read my whole post, you would have seen that I had said, "I would not have known any more than Dave that a delivery could even have come out like this. I would make the "poor" assumption that the sender had a clue as to what they were doing, and would warn me as to this risk. Otherwise I would assume that the price was simply a matter of how long it took to get delivery, not whether or not the animal was dead!" Now, I admit, I'm new to this, also admit, I'm no huge order waiting to happen for anyone, but I would/and DO expect a seller to say "Hey Chas, you don't want to send it that way. Trust me when I say, being THE EXPERIENCED one, who relies on this for my profession or constant hobby, that THIS form of transport is the only way to go. If you don't want to pay such and extravagent fee for delivery, I understand and will not force you to take delivery, but as a business person, I only deliver LIVE animals to the absolute best of my ability." As for this whole, "Unless it falls into a set of preagreed upon guidelines for live arrival.", let me ask you this, how many times has someone asked for "DEAD DELIVERY" from you on anything besides possibly food? Makes no sense does it, so come on, don't try and hide behind some truley lame contractual phrasing that would NEVER stand up in court. Your customers are requesting and purchasing LIVE animals. If this is NOT the case of this circumstance, then Just Reptiles was right! It was someone not wanting to turn down a sale, and that is a point you originally argued. Sorry if I was unclear on my stance here, I'll go back to read your messages again, just to make sure I didn't miss anything this time :P |
| Tim Bowles |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9554.html Posted At 14:14:02 09/30/2001 chas "My statement was and is, that you are saying it is the buyer's fault. Saying it could have been packaged better, was not relieving that responsibility, you understand that right?" No, Im not saying its the buyers fault for packing only the shipper used. That was his fault and the packing was Pauls fault. Not hard to figure out I said that Chas. After all that is what I said. "I would not have known any more than Dave that a delivery could even have come out like this. I would make the "poor" assumption that the sender had a clue as to what they were doing, and would warn me as to this risk. Otherwise I would assume that the price was simply a matter of how long it took to get delivery, not whether or not the animal was dead!" Its statments like this that cause me to tell every buyer how I package and who I ship through. So again, if you choose to go through another shipper I dont use, I will still pack it correctly and you will have no live arrival guarantee. Or you will simply not get the animal. I am only concerned with the animals not the buyers wallet when it comes to shipping. "If I purchase an animal, and forgive me if this is unreasonable to ask for Tim, but I expect that animal to be healthy to the best of the seller's ability, and I DEFINATELY expect it living!!" Reason number 2 why I always tell every customer how and who. But again, if you choose a different shipper than I use you get no guarantee. ""Unless it falls into a set of preagreed upon guidelines for live arrival.", let me ask you this, how many times has someone asked for "DEAD DELIVERY" from you on anything besides possibly food?" If you agree to it its a contract. No ifs ands or buts, Chas. But again, Paul packed it wrong and Dave chose to ship cheap. Paul should and is trying to make it right. "It was someone not wanting to turn down a sale, and that is a point you originally argued." Actually Chas, if really read my original post I was questioning Just Reptiles statements on who is responsible for shippers mishandelings not buyers and sellers. "There is no question here of where the responsibility lies. I have seen this so many times in this business, a shipper will only guarantee live delivery if shipped a certain way. If a shipper does not guarantee live delivery with certain shipping methods, than that shipper should not use any of those methods. Most customers are not aware of the risks associated with using the less inexpensive way of shipping, they just see the price difference. When a customer purchases a live animal from a seller, until that buyer has that animal alive and healthy in their possession, that animal is still the property of the seller, and therefore still their responsibility." This is why I give a 100% live arrival guarantee if shipped with my shipper and packaged correctly. As I always do. It was not "someone not wanting to turn down a sale, and that is a point you originally argued." Read it again, Chas. My questions and comments where about mishandeling in shipping and who"s fault that is. But again just for you Chas, Paul packed it wrong the buyer wanted cheap delivery and an agreement between the two stated no live arrival garuntee. Paul is trying to make it right anyway. Hope this clears it up as to what I was trying to say originally. But just in case you missed it Chas, Paul packed it wrong, the buyer chose cheap shipping and no live arrival was guaranteed and agreed upon by both. Not to mention Paul is trying to make it right. |
| PBM |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9556.html Posted At 14:51:16 09/30/2001 Dave, you can't realize how happy this makes me. Sounds strange I know, scroll down read my post(s) on this guy and maybe you'll see my point. Finally it should come to people's minds that this guy needs a new hobby and should be run out of the hobby on the first thing smokin! And YES, I have recently acquired a Biak GTP, shipped exceptionally, honestly represented, fully referenced seller by some of the best in the business, and I couldn't be happier. In fact I am here today to post his name so others can enjoy getting a good animal in the future from Eric Crider as well if they find themselves buying from him. But what STILL kills me is this guys followers that will no matter what find a way to say he's a good guy! He shipped like an idiot, he lied about the hole auction not being legite(anyone realize this as he sold one to this guy but not me, because he said "I wasn't able to bid, so herpauction said the hole auction was voided" ) This guy is a joke, and people that read all of my posts and responses and now these in light of Dave's experience should find a little chain of events going on here. 1)Miller can't show his face until he thinks he can get away with it 2)His buddies will take his back no matter what and in turn should be considered just as terrible to do business with as he is. Thank God, this guy screwed me before I sent him any money-And yes, refusing to sell after he legally sold it on an auction makes him a bad guy, and if Dave's story doesn't drive it home for you, OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! Paul Miller is not to be dealt with! Sorry Dave, if you still have money left after being "bent over" by Miller, contact escreptile@aol.com I just got my biak from him and couldn't be happier. Take Care |
| Chas Milner |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9558.html Posted At 15:21:57 09/30/2001 Tim, I must say, the way you say you do business pleases me. It sounds to be exactly the way it should be. Making a fair deal, informing the buyers of the consequences of making a choice of different delivery services (because you must assume they are all as stupid as I am about this), and personally I LOVE the fact that you would REFUSE to use a specific delivery system because you know better, and of course the all important packaging. I must truly have misunderstood what I thought I was reading before, and I apologize if this is the way you do business. It is the right way. I am also glad to hear it, and know you would then agree with the alrger part of us that this Paul's fault and that he should either replace or refund the money. He packaged wrongly, and whether or not he chose the shipping agency, he is the one that used it or agreed to use it. I guess all along you and I must have been saying roughly the same thing and I had not realized it :) P.S.-Although I still say that any statement such as "agreed upon live delivery" would totally fall apart in court. In the law that is what is considered an implied agreement. |
| Tim Bowles |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9559.html Posted At 16:04:26 09/30/2001 Chas Thats cool, we do agree about all the substantial points on wrong packing and poor shippers. The reasons I choose my shippers is they still will take snakes according to their guidlines. This allows us as buyers and sellers to get the animal insured for live arrival. Unless I am mistaken the only one left that will "knowingly" ship snakes is Delta Dash and insure them. So if and when you buy one pop the extra money and do it the Delta way and insured. Its the safest route we have at our disposal at this time. To some a 500 or 600 dollar animal in their store inventory can be absorbed as a loss with no major ill effects. However for the smaller breeders such as myself it can really pack a punch in the kidneys. So Proper packing and shipping is MUST not a luxury. This is why you will never find a bad guy post on me from my animals and shipping. I send a ton of pics on request of my animals for sale and even take pics as I pack. Saves a ton of headaches. I can prove to the shippers that it was "live" when I put it in the box. Which helps tons when seaking an insurance claim. Good Luck and Peace |
| Gil Bert |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9561.html Posted At 16:18:23 09/30/2001 Dave, I'm sorry for what you had to go through and even sorry for you Biak. PBM has a great point, Pauls friends are still backing him, first after he pulled a fast one on PBM and secondly after shipping that sickly GTP. I told you guys that weeks ago in a previous post!!!! I tell you what Dave, If these guys want to go down with the ship (because Miller is sinking, fast) let them. Or maybe they will all chip in and get you a healthy, Guaranteed live GTP from a reputable dealer. Paul Miller you should be ashamed for the way you do business. Come out from your rock and take responsibility. Oh, I forgot your waiting for the rest of your buddies to clean you back like (John Hedger, Tim Bowles, Chas Milner Joel Hollowman, and Tom Burns) they did before. Well, were all a little tired of you BUSINESS PRACTICES MILLER!!! Do the right thing 1)Give him back his money. 2)Give all your herps to Tom C.(or any other intelligent person) 3)Stick your head in the toilet and FLUSH.... Because that is what YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH SHIT! CALLING ALL YOUR SUPPORTERS OUT MILLER.. GIL BERT |
| Paul Mitzelfelt |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9562.html Posted At 16:18:26 09/30/2001 Sorry web master, don't delete my post please-I am PBM, sorry used to putting that instead of my full name which can give you finger cramps from typing out-LOL Take Care, Paul B. Mitzelfelt |
| Gil Bert |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9563.html Posted At 16:20:54 09/30/2001 SORRY WEBMASTER |
| Joel Holloman |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9564.html Posted At 16:48:48 09/30/2001 Gilbert, first off the spelling is Holloman, secondly I commented on my deal and my deal only and the emails pbm sent nothing more nothing less. My snakes were shipped very good and that's all I said. I also stated that if stating my opinion makes me his friend so be it. I won't defend the way that snake was shipped as it looks horrible. I stand behind what i said in the last post on Paul Miller but won't argue the way this snake was shipped. Dave McGowen has every right to want some compensation (refund) and I agree whole heartedly with him on this issue. See I don't defend the defensless Gilbert. Good luck Dave I feel for you and that GTP. |
| jim scharphorn |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9565.html Posted At 16:54:55 09/30/2001 i recieved 1 of these gtp also from the auction and i paid 62.00 to have it shiped and that included a 400 gurantee but i am worried that these things have not feed yet and also paul did send me my snake but he is a pisss pour communicator you would not believe all the days i expected the snake to arive when it never went out and paul would not contact me and tell me he did not ship it i even left work early a couple times to recieve a snake that never got shipped and i will never buy another one from him because of this i cant even get a hold of him to find out some more info on the snake it is very sad jim |
| John Hedger |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9566.html Posted At 16:56:52 09/30/2001 Gil Ol'buddy, I'm not backing anyone...READ MY POSTs!! Why don't you go on the Chondroweb forum or the Kingsnake - GTP Forum and ask how many of those breeders trust sending out their CB&B green tree babies via Airbourne, UPS, USPS, etc. Probably not too many!! GTP breeders are very picky and most would say Delta Dash for sure! Dave has a valid argument in being extremely upset about the way that snake was packed. Personally, I am surprised and shocked that Paul would pack a GTP baby in such a way. He should have known better. Paul really screwed up here and I am sure he realizes it!! As far as the shipping method, I have had tree boas shipped to me via Airbourne, and have found this method to be very reliable. They always deliver to me around the same time (9AM) without a hitch. In fact, once when I had bought an $1800 animal from Ben Siegel, I had suggested airbourne to him since it had gone so well with them in the past. He nixed the idea, and I believe he was right-- that Delta Dash is the best, most reliable, most trackable method for shipping such a valuable animal. The main problem with other methods is that they are not treated like valuable live cargo and if the reciever is not there when delivered then they go back in the warehouse until delivery attempt is made the next day. Although Delta has it's flaws, at least with Delta I can go to the airport and pick the animal up anytime up until 12 Midnight. Try calling UPS or some of these other services and getting a live person on the phone...Impossible!!! They cover themselves well, so they won't be bothered with having to redeliver a cargo. John Hedger |
| Billy |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9568.html Posted At 17:10:17 09/30/2001 Man, I thought I had seen it all, but this is so absurd! This poor snake lost its' life because of this clueless excuse of a decent human being shipping it like he was shipping his mom's fruitcake. Paul Miller, you are a moron and need to do the right thing and give Dave his money back. There is no excuse for this pathetic mishap you caused to this snake. Good Lord, you shouldn't even own pets, if this is how you take care of them ( shipping or not ). Get yourself out of this hobby or do the right thing and give a full refund to Dave. You will be remembered. |
| John Hedger |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9569.html Posted At 17:15:03 09/30/2001 jim, I would agree with you there about the emails. I too have had those kind of problems with Paul (among others)in the past. Paul should definitely hone his public relations skills. However, I have gotten some great animals from him and probably will deal with him again in the future! I have also had similar email/lack of responce problems from several other sellers/brokers. I think it has to do with one's personality type. I just recieved a group of rough green snakes from a guy who never even gave me his phone number! The deal took the better part of a month and I was always a bit skeptical because of his slow and somewhat thoughtless responces. However, he came through with flying colors. The snakes were excellent. Some dealers, like Kevin of NERD, I have learned not to email him, he won't take you seriously unless you call him on the phone. Many people are like that, I agree with you jim , lack of followup communication can be very unsettling -- you don't feel like the guy cares at all! John Hedger |
| Chas Milner |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9570.html Posted At 17:31:18 09/30/2001 Gil, Please tell me that you did not just say I was taking Paul's back and implying that I had done so before! LMAO!! If that's what you said, then please go read my posts, I have been arguing all day that ALL the blame falls on him! Not some, not partial, but ALL, and that I would not do business with someone that even had to consider what the right thing was to do in this case. Also, I have been viewing this site for a total of 72 hours now, as I only just discovered it, and have been using it to help me decide where and what type of herp to get for my next pet. I'm not upset at all, but if you're going to use my name, it would be silly to claim I am fighting for Paul in this case as anyone who has read the posts would clearly understand that is the EXACT opposite of what I've been saying. If you have me mistaken with another that is fine, but I suggest you go do a search on my name, I don't think I've even posted under anything besides this one string, and I will gladly accept your apology :P |
| Tim Bowles |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9572.html Posted At 17:36:07 09/30/2001 Gil Bert, "Paul packed it wrong," Does this sound like I am cleaning up for Paul? I think I said this phrase many times. |
| Joel Holloman |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9573.html Posted At 17:53:18 09/30/2001 PBM you really have a problem. Because someone states that you had a bad attitude (read your own email) doesn't make them Paul's buddy. As you see myself and others think the way that snake was shipped was awful. It's a good thing you do have a bad attitude or it could've been you. Glad you got your snake and it is healthy as no one want to see a snake dead or sick. So with that said go buy him a rat or something and stop acting like you were a genious because if Paul would've sold it to you you would've took it so put your crystal ball away and go take care of your snake. Best of luck to you Dave, Joel |
| dave mcgowen |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9575.html Posted At 18:07:43 09/30/2001 Wow! It's great to see all the feedback and to know that I am not out of my mind to expect a snake to be packaged better. I just wanted to clarify a point made it some of the posts. I selected Airborne not necessarily because it is the cheapest, though that is one factor. The nearest airport they fly into would be Oklahoma City which is about 100 miles, I am in the Army, coach a youth soccer team 3 days a week, and go to school at night. So the time to go pick it up was also a major factor. I am not a big breeder but I am not a rookie either, I keep about 35 snakes including Jungle carpets, irian Jayas, albino tricolors etc. I also produce about 100 hatchlings a year, many are sold locally but some I ship. I say this to indicate that I have some idea what is involved in shipping. I have never had a casualty with Airborne (or other shippers) when shipping or receiving, nor have any of my friends. I certainly know that deaths may occur, but I feel with decent packing the chances are fairly slim of the animal not making it. I just wanted to say that I have no real issue with "live arrival not guaranteed", though I personally feel that wrong. Had the snake arrive properly packed but still dead, I understand that I would not have much of a complaint. My sole gripe is in the manner in which it was packed. By his emails and talking with him on the phone I don't think Paul will provide a refund/replacement. At least I know to thoroughly grill anyone I buy from in the future about how they will pack, ship, etc. thanks for all the input, Dave |
| jim scharphorn |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9576.html Posted At 18:23:07 09/30/2001 it was just not emails i had his home phone his cell phone he had my home phone and my cell phone i left lots of messages and he would not call me back one of the days he was suppose to ship i asked him to call me that morning to give me a idea of when it would arive because i live one and a half yours away from the airport well he did not call me and did not even ship that happened about 3 times and then when he did ship he emailed me da im at work not home on my computor and the snake was suppose to be here by noon well it did not show up till midnight but i did get it and at least i did not get screwed and i told him that my temps were in the 50s and nights were 40s so he said he would put a heat pack in the box well he did not put one in |
| Tom Burns |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9577.html Posted At 18:53:48 09/30/2001 Gil, Why did you have to drag me into this? I haven't made a single comment thus far in this string. Just because I sided with Paul M in the "other" argument, doesn't mean I'm always going to do so. Unlike you, I only open my mouth when I feel like I have a solid case to work with. Not just to be a jerk. So in the future please refrain from pretending that you know a damn thing about me. Also, PBM can take care of himself, he doesn't need a little sidekick like you to always back him up on things. Hmmm, that sounds a lot like what you've accused me of. I guess that also makes you a hypocrite, huh? I was definitely right in my previous opinion of you Gil. You're a dime a dozen. |
| Paul Mitzelfelt |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9578.html Posted At 19:05:30 09/30/2001 Joel, was I speaking to you directly in any way? No! Quit trying to insult me, you don't know me. You know me from Paul Miller screwing me around and you adding your two cents worth. When you sell me a snake, or buy one from me, then you can judge me as far as my attitude goes. To do so by what you read in here is pretty ill suited. I bet when someone gets you upset, your an ugly guy to be around, most upset people are. Do I chose to always from then on out try to slam you in some way? No, but this is what you chose to do today isn't it? How did I think I was a genious? Whats with the crystal ball(is that another new designer morph?) And really, do you think the hatchling GTP will eat a rat for me???? C'mon now Joel, lets get serious. Had he sold it to me I would've taken it??? Well, you think, I bid on what was supposed to be a feeding, CBB Biak GTP of course I would've taken it genious. Just as Dave did, but low and behold, Paul Miller IS after all a BAD GUY to deal with, as we will probably see time and time again. Whether you feel I was justified being upset makes no matter, I don't have to live with ya(your not my wife) so what do I care if you don't like me?? And then once again someone says something to try to make Paul Miller look like he's right-something about expecting bad communication from time to time and using Kevin from NERD as an example. Okay, lets look at this point using Kevin then. If you e-mail Kevin you'll probably go unanswered, BUT here's the reason it is okay in this situation-Ready?? No reading every other line here okay! Kevin DOES NOT reply to 5 or so e-mails promptly then start ignoring you. He is consistent in not responding to e-mails, so one does not come to expect it. If he were to do it that way, when things change people start suspecting somethings up, as in, NOW all of a sudden the other buyer of Millers snake can't get ahold of him, but I bet he always could previous to the sale. That makes things weird-Did I lose anyone there???LOL! And Paul Miller and all his buddies can think there getting over on me all they want. But, I promise you, there's people that read these posts that can follow sentences and fully understand Paul Miller is a bad guy, and it will hurt nothing but his wallet. And I will be sitting here feeding my collection still loving my animals when Paul Miller and his buddies are long gone due to not making enough money or ripping enough people off! Some of us still do it for the love of the animal, others do it for money-Lets see what the ten year reunion looks like! True Hobbyists-Take Care, crooks, get a new hobby-I hear beanie babies are pretty hot still-See ya! p.s.-Joel I guess you have a guilty conscious as I NEVER stated your name as one of Millers followers in my previous post-yes I re-read it, and NO I never said HOLLOLMAN is a follower-Geez man get over youself already! |
| Joel Holloman |
Re: I have emailed pbm so i am finished with this thread
9579.html Posted At 19:43:50 09/30/2001 I have sent an email to PBM to settle this back and forth nonsense so I have spoken my peace and hope everyone else has. Good luck and love them herps :) |
| Paul Miller |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9580.html Posted At 19:46:30 09/30/2001 I have to apologize first off. I believe that the snake could have been packaged better, But I have Mailed a number of snakes packed in this manner and only had one problem in the past. So I continued to to pack them this way. They were well ventilated and packed tightly with news paper. When the snakes left here it was late in the evening and temperatures were very nice. Keep in mind My carrier picks up from me at 5-6pm and they guarantee delivery before noon next day. Meaning the snakes usually travel at night and are not exposed to extreme tempatures. I guess this manner of shipping will have to be changed. Its unfortunate the snake has perished and I felt at that time the offer I made was fair to David. After all I did only guarantee live arrival thru Delta. After reading the posts here and rethinking this whole situation I feel terrible. Again I want to apologize to David. I have Never had an unsatified customer and I dont want to change that now. Sometimes as wanting to deal wholesale I forget the composure I need to display when dealing with retail customers. Communication is one of my weak points. I love this business and sometimes find myself strung between my real job and the dealing of reptiles. My time has been very limited and extremely stressful lately. Which has caused me to get things done the fastest way I can. I assure you I will fix this problem Dave. As for the posts implying I would ship a dead snake, Thats the same as calling me a thief or worse. I take that very personally and I only have one thing to say to you. KISS MY ASS! Also I would like to state that guys like John Hedger Joel, and Tim are all great guys I value your oppinions and wish people wouldnt drag them into these posts the way they do. You guys never seem do properly decifer a post before you respond. You just take the defensive side and start bashing everyone you can. There are more professional and adult ways to handle these things. It doesnt seem to me that any of you want to ever solve a problem just intensify it. I think alot of you need to grow up. Just my personal oppinion. If anyone has any questions at all about this please feel free to contact me. At least this way things can handled properly. Thank You, Paul Miller |
| Paul Mitzelfelt |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9583.html Posted At 20:22:18 09/30/2001 Okay, thanks for that, I hope I am not the only one that can see through your B.S.-First you state you've done it before with only one mishap-well, why didn't you stop then? Then you thank people for defending you when your wrong-Then tell anyone that "insults" you to kiss your ass-Is that professional in your eyes-You claim to be such, prove it-Your a liar-When did you decide to sell even though you say it was an invalid auction? And if your in such a hurry, why the delay with the other guys GTP? And if you can't properly care for the animals due to your stressful life, get RID OF THE ANIMALS-for there sakes! Why did Dave have to come here to get you to make it right? And hell I'll believe that when Dave states it has been done. You gonna call that other guy back now and give him the info he seeks? Heck, theres TRUE keepers that will probably help him out any way they can even though they didn't sell him the animal-WHY you might ask-Because there not in it for the buck as you are-Well, bend over Mr. Professional so I can kiss your ass! Beanie babies take less time, hold value, don't need fed or cleaned, and won't die in shipping-Check into it! J. Holloman, thanks for the e-mail-I won't comment on you as you asked, but remember who commented on who first-Did you really expect me Mr. Bad attitude to sit back and read as you insulted me with the "genious" remark? Okay, take care! One more thing-I am glad it takes 40 posts to make you feel terrible about it-Please oh please, I hope people see you for what you are now!LMAO!!!!!!!!! |
| jeremy rennison |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9586.html Posted At 20:49:58 09/30/2001 come on guys, he said hes sorry, hopefully he learned a lot from that mistake.... I just felt like he meant what he said, and sounds like a good guy, and is willing to fix it.... thanx, bye |
| Bob Barker |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9587.html Posted At 21:21:46 09/30/2001 Well, let's hope for the best, Paul...if you use the "standard" shipping procedures, ie: styro-foam insulated boxes, etc...hopefully this won't happen again. Learn from it, the shipping methods you used were beyond insanity. We all make mistakes, and we all should learn from them. No cutting corners when it comes to the animals safety, even if it means the seller must take a few dollar loss on his end. I normally would NEVER give this guy a break BUT since Joel H. has some nice things to say about him, I just hope he learns from this and never ship like that again. Spend $5.00 @ Superior Ent. and use their boxes...all the time, everytime, and I bet this doesn't happen again. Peace |
| Gil O. Bert |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9592.html Posted At 22:04:22 09/30/2001 Dave Please email me and this Board when, I mean if Paul Miller makes it 100% RIGHT. This is a matter everyone needs to know about. There are a lot of novice Herpers who could fall victim to this, and a informed Herper has a fighting chance. Thanks, Hope to hear from you. 2)Chas, I owe you an apology!!!!! When the takes get this long it takes a lot of time to sift through the garbage. While speed reading through it I got the wrong picture. MY BAD!! 3)Tom Burns, good old Tom, always shows up to stick up for Miller. Tom, again this DIME landed HEADS up, so tuck your TAIL between your legs and shut up. Your boy MILLER is at it again and just like I predicted your right behind. If Miller suddenly stopped his fast paced life for one minute your nose would be so far up his ass, you couldn't breath. I call them like I see them. Hay if your buddy is such a good guy why in the hell are we hear, again. I can't wait until next time. 4)John and Tim, so glad to see you guys on the right side for a change. Sorry, I don't follow every post you guys write about. Hope that doesn't sound to judgemental? Just glad to see you guys fighting the good fight!!! 5)Jeremy, Mommy's calling time for bed!!!! Wake up DUDE, your nose will wind up like Toms or maybe even deeper. We have yet to see if it is fixed!!! Didn't get fixed last time. Where were you then!!! He has NOT learned from his mistakes if your old enough to read let me quote him (MILLER)"I believe that the snake could have been packaged better, But I have Mailed a number of snakes packed in this manner and only had one problem in the past. So I continued to to pack them this way." Basically what he said was, I KILLED ONE ONCE BEFORE AND DIDN'T THINK....IT WOULD HAPPEN AGAIN!!! How may HERPS have to die before he reevaluates his methods. |
| Steve Schindler |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9593.html Posted At 22:10:07 09/30/2001 Paul, What difference does it make if you are dealing wholesale or retail? Don't all your customers deserve to be treated the same? Steve Schindler "Sometimes as wanting to deal wholesale I forget the composure I need to display when dealing with retail customers." |
| Gil O. Bert |
CONT..
9596.html Posted At 22:25:39 09/30/2001 6)Holloman, Sorry I misspelled you name, Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong, just didn't want to see the same mistakes happen again. I added my middle initial so folks won't misspell mine. SORRY.... FINALLY MILLER We are here again... For someone who was given the benefit of the doubt to start(not talking about this month, 2 screw ups already)you sure have put your foot in it, Or should I say your GTP. I liked your statement..." I have Never had an unsatified customer and I dont want to change that now." Ok now your a liar.... We have been here before remember??? The last time you were a weaseling cheat, REMEMBER? So lets get this straight, LIAR, CHEAT, but noone said thief, but if a horse has stripes I call it a ZEBRA. Oh yea, I'll leave the ass kissin to your buddies, they do ok for you, speaking of retail are they your employees? We are here to solve THIS problem. If you were PROFESSIONAL enough to do this in the FIRST place then Dave would never have come here. REMEMBER??? 200$ to replace the GTP. VERY PROFESSIONAL!!!! VERY PROFESSIONAL!!!! If he had that kind of money he would have bought his GTP from a Reputable dealer. You WOULD not address the problem untill it was intensified, you are working on it now RIGHT? WE WILL SEE. |
| Gil O. Bert |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9597.html Posted At 22:27:07 09/30/2001 I keep forgetting that @aol.com stuff (SORRY WEBMASTER) |
| Gil O. Bert |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9598.html Posted At 22:34:17 09/30/2001 Schindler, GOING deep, back , way back, YES THAT ONE IS OVER THE WALL AND OUT OF THE PARK!!!!!! Your catching up to Bonds. Millers at the plate 2 strikes, NO BALLS, Can't wait to see his next pitch..... I WILL BE the First one to admit I was wrong, IF he solve this one to Daves satisifaction, its getting late now... |
| mickey cook |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9599.html Posted At 23:35:48 09/30/2001 What ever happened to "THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT"? In my opinion if the deal was not originally made with NO GUARENTEE then reguardless of how its sent as long as its over night the seller should be responsible. S#*t happens and somtimes snakes die, its the chance we take, but bottem line the buyer should not be the one taking the loss. Just my input. |
| Paul Miller |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9606.html Posted At 09:07:33 10/01/2001 I waited 40 posts to post so I wouldnt have to come back and explain everything again to guys like you."PBM" I figured I would let everyone get their oppinions in before I posted. I encourage everyone to scroll down and read the previous thread. It is clear what kind of a person you and Gil Bert are. Two mistakes I think not. Im sure if everyone reads the previous posts and refresh thier memories they will all realize how pathetic you are in your attempt to regain an once of dignity that you really never had. If they still have a doubt I have a bank of emails that I atempted to post in the thread below but they were removed because of the amount of profanity you used within them. Once again you proving what a jack ass you are . Keep it up, its great entertainment. As for the auction being invalid it was and I clearly proved that before. I decided to keep my end of the bargain and sell the snakes to who had bid on them with the exception of you."PBM" Sounds like something a liar and cheat does, Right? Hope that answers all your questions because I wont answer any more of them. I should not even responded to you in the first place but I felt everyone should know what you are all about. Paul Miller |
| Tom Chambers |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9609.html Posted At 11:27:39 10/01/2001 Ya know...I read both threads...and Miller sure has a lot of balls to try to direct this back to another post. I may have agreed that it was his right to back out of that deal due to circumstances both parties were unsure of......but when you blatantly screw up a shipment like this...(this was obviously no accident, just negligence)....you should try to humble yourself a bit rather than try to change the subject. Hell, PBM probably wouldn't have even gotten the sandwich box after pissing off Miller.....just a dead GTP in an envelope! TC |
| Paul Miller |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9619.html Posted At 14:13:47 10/01/2001 Im not misdericting the posts to another thread. Ive dealt with this issue as you obviously didnt comprehend. As far as I am concerned this thread is dead. PMB as usual is trying to drag it on, in an attempt to regain face in the eyes of the veiwers that he made such an ass out of himself in front of. Thats all I was saying. You dont have to like me Tom take whoevers side you want. Facts are facts and yes I made a mistake and I explained it very thoroughly. I am also replacing the snake. What else do you want? |
| Tom Burns |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9622.html Posted At 14:40:52 10/01/2001 """3)Tom Burns, good old Tom, always shows up to stick up for Miller. Your boy MILLER is at it again and just like I predicted your right behind. I call them like I see them.""" Gil, You call them like you see them? Geez, I'd like to see through your eyes for a day. You must be smoking the good stuff Gil! Otherwise, could you please point out a moment in this string where I stuck up for anyone?... I'm waiting... Can't find it can you? That's because once again your finger was firmly implanted up your ass at a time when you probably should have been doing a bit more research. From now on if you're gonna enter my realm Gil, you better start bringing some facts with you. If not, I'm gonna make you look like an idiot every time. Of course this is no great task, considering you already do most of the work for me. You dragged me into this Gil, but it's you who will be leaving with his tail tucked between his legs. At least until the webmaster realizes how much of a waste of bandwidth you are and pulls the plug on this string. I look foward to your response, it'll probably be chock full of immature name calling, but contain absolutely ZERO facts to answer my current question, or back up your previous post. Dime a dozen... |
| Paul Mitzelfelt |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9632.html Posted At 17:54:29 10/01/2001 Well, I am glad you had to wait to see what to do. This should prove your moral fiber. And to comment on my profanity and following up with calling me a jack ass is sort of like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? As far as getting back an OUNCE of my dignity, theres no need. Try as I might, I am yet to find someone that will refuse to take my money after my dealings with you. As far as proving the auction was invalid, I see no way you did that, besides crying you didn't get to bid. Well you had from day one to get a bid in, and at anytime you could've bid 500 dollars, you never did. I will always believe you sent him a dead snake. Call me whatever you want, post whatever e-mails you want. I will stand behind them as I do my animals. Why did I say what I did to whoever-Because they kept telling me I did what I never did, WHY? Because they obviously can't follow a sentence or a paragraph and kept posting things in an order to make you look better. That is impossible anyhow. And when you admit you already killed one animal, and admit that not only did you do this intentionally, but you have shipped animals like this a LOT-your telling anyone that can read and understand that your a piece of work. Besides anyone that wants to kiss your butt for whatever reason, all others said this sort of packaging is just plain negligent, and yet you by SELF ADMITTANCE pack like this all the time. So quit trying to be Johnny come lately with your little attacks and attempts at witt, and just give him a new snake-better yet, pay someone with good animals to ship him one at your expense. If after all this you actually do make it right we will all know its not on your own accord as you admitted it took the opinion of many to attack your morals. But, lastly I must thank you for being a liar and a cheat as it saved me the heartache of receiving a dead animal. See ya around!(I hope!!!!) |
| Paul Miller |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9645.html Posted At 22:11:55 10/01/2001 Keep dragging it on. Your so predictable. Keep up with the threats its working! |
| Gil O. Bert |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9648.html Posted At 22:57:51 10/01/2001 Tom we all thank you for not taking your buddies side this time. Hay Joel if your not going to comment any further then quit emailing me. You may be buddies with Miller but not me... The only thig I care about, other than that helpless dead GTP, is that Dave gets his money back. If it happens once then shame on you, twice then shame on me.. (right Dave) If I have to shake a few bushes and ruffle a few feathers, so what!! I know it keeps Tom and Joel up at night. SEE YA!! |
| Paul Mitzelfelt |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9649.html Posted At 23:00:20 10/01/2001 Not sure what you percieve as a threat, don't really care-Just DO THE RIGHT THING for once. I thought you lived a stressful life with little time for proper animal care-Funny you always have time to be typing here huh? Have you contacted the other guy with his GTP? Have you sent out another one to Dave yet? Better get busy! Night Paul Miller-Sleep Tight! |
| Gil O. Bert |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9650.html Posted At 23:01:22 10/01/2001 Miller, you is threatening you? Not, I. So please don't mail me any dead snakes. |
| Gil O. Bert |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9651.html Posted At 23:22:12 10/01/2001 I meant WHO is threatening you? I would like to know. |
| jim scharphorn |
Re: PAUL MILLER....BAD GUY!...........Feedback welcome
9708.html Posted At 05:15:00 10/03/2001 just a follow up paul still has not contacted me by email or by phone to give me support on my gtp that i bought from him so nothing has changes he still is worth less |