Buying/Trading? Use caution

[omni]

Just feeling dismayed about reading so many reports of deals gone sour or outright fraud, I thought I could voice my thoughts on how ppl can protect themselves a little better when dealing with people you don't know.

Scammers and those dishonest enough to try the stunts they do will have advantage since as a buyer, you might assume anyone in business for any time must be ok to deal with. The internet has given scammers the anonymity they seek to be able to only show or tell you minimal info about themselves or their animals. Their favorite 'sucker' is the unseasoned herper that asks few, if any questions prior to sending money or animals. Because online buyers are generally a trusting sort of ppl they are inclined to believe as truth anything said from the person, even as far as giving a break (and another even!) when the scammer delays his end of the deal by stating some excuse.
Here's some warning flags I see as making obvious the person isn't totally honest:
*pictures of low quality or providing none(can't/won't provide pics of their husbandry setup)
*glossing over or omitting details of the deal in order to hurry it along
*delaying shipment on his end by misdirection of times/methods
*poor grammer (often using run-on sentences)
*providing info you didn't request while ommitting info you did
*using employment or travel times as reasons for delays in communication
*quick to reply to emails before the deal, slow to minimal after you've committed on your end
There's a lot more to this than that but to keep this post short, if the thread lives, we can discuss the things we do or can to investigate before dealing with someone online.
Although I'm new to to the online herp community, I love the hobby and just want to help make it safe for everyone :)

[hhmoore]

Here's some warning flags I see as making obvious the person isn't totally honest:
*pictures of low quality or providing none(can't/won't provide pics of their husbandry setup)
*glossing over or omitting details of the deal in order to hurry it along
*delaying shipment on his end by misdirection of times/methods
*poor grammer (often using run-on sentences)
*providing info you didn't request while ommitting info you did
*using employment or travel times as reasons for delays in communication
*quick to reply to emails before the deal, slow to minimal after you've committed on your end
There's a lot more to this than that but to keep this post short, if the thread lives, we can discuss the things we do or can to investigate before dealing with someone online.
Although I'm new to to the online herp community, I love the hobby and just want to help make it safe for everyone :)
While I agree that these things can, and frequently should, serve as warning flags, they should not all be considered as "making obvious the person isn't totally honest".

Poor quality or no pics: As hard as it may be for some to accept, some people just don't have the equipment to provide quality digital photos to online buyers. Sure, if somebody is trying to make a business of selling reptiles, a decent digital camera should be a priority...but not everybody selling animals is in that situation. There are also a number of reasons that honest sellers might not take pictures: if they are selling in lots, if they have large numbers of similar looking animals, or animals with minimal individual variation, for example. Brokering animals, while frowned upon by many, is not, by itself, an indication of dishonesty - but it sure removes the possibility of individual photos. They may just be plain old tired of all the requests for additional and specific photos...especially if the animals are not high dollar. If you want pics and they aren't provided, consider the deal and the circumstances, then make your choice.

Poor grammar, spelling, and sentence structure: Obviously, education levels vary; but another factor is the computer generation itself. Chats and IMs have developed shortcuts and the tendency to bypass syntax/grammmar/spelling/punctuation concerns, as well as reducing the likelihood of proofreading. While I will usually choose not to deal with somebody that presents him/herself poorly, it is not an absolute.

Providing info not requested, and not providing what is requested: Frequently, the same questions are asked repeatedly. As a result, many sellers get programmed to include that information in responses, so they don't have to be asked. There is not really a good excuse for blatantly not responding to specific questions, but things do get missed. Sometimes it is simply a matter of focusing on one question and forgetting about another.

Using employment or travel times as reasons for delays in communication: Sorry, but that is a very real issue in many peoples' worlds. I work two jobs, have plenty of responsibilities, and still need to try find time to sleep. If somebody attempts to contact me during "normal" business hours (note, I said normal business, not MY hours), they will usually fail. I am the first to admit that I have lost customers because I prefer to do business by email vs phone. I work nights, sleep during the day (and poorly, at that). My phone is turned off 99% of the time. For those customers that insist on a phone conversation, I will be happy to call them as long as they give a time to call. It may take a few days to happen - because of my schedule - but I will do it. And if they tell me to call at any time, I will try twice. I will leave messages - twice. And then I don't call again. I have better things to do with my time. (Besides, email leaves us both with a record of exactly what is said, for future reference). Also, not everybody has the leisure of being able to access and respond to emails (or phone messages) while working. Those people lose a significant portion of the available day, then have other responsibilities when they get home. Sometimes responses take a back seat to the real world.


As you said, there is a lot involved with figuring out who is a good person to buy from. Checking the BOI is a great start, but somebody that doesn't have any feedback may still be an honest person that is just trying to sell a few animals. Ask around, do your research, if something doesn't feel right...don't do it. In most cases, you will be able to find a similar animal someplace else, for a comparable price. If not, weigh the risk and make a decision. I have made some deals that I thought were pretty likely to go sour - but the $$ involved were an amount I was willing to risk. The higher the pricetag, the less risk I am willing to take. If I were going to spend thousands of dollars on a purchase, you can bet your bottom that it will be a name that I know I can trust.