Jungle Habitats - Alan Hall - You Can Decide

[SPJ]

Maybe I am just getting jaded the more I am involved with the herping community but this has really been bothering me for a while regarding a deal I had with Alan. I am not trying to convince anyone if he is a good guy or bad guy but just presenting what happened with the latest deal I had with him. I am writing this to detail what transpired. I have always liked Alan but this deal on top of a few other funky ones lately made me decide enough was enough and the story needs to be told instead of me just forgeting it and moving on. I also want to make it clear that I want nothing from Alan and am not writing this to get anything from him. I have found an alternate source for a black slant front cage. The herping community can decide on their own if if this deal was good or bad. You guys are smart enough to do that without me doing anything but presenting what happened. OK, enough with the rambling. Here is what transpired.

Alan received my payment for the cage.

check made it
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Find Member's Posts check made it, Feb 17 2007, 09:15 PM
I Pimp Reptile Cages & Reptile Cage Accessories
Group: Super Mod
Posts: 1854
Member No.: 76
Joined: 26-August 04
hey just wanted o let ya know it got here today
Alan

I sent back a PM a while later to get an update since the check would have cleared by now.

Re:Order #30
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Find Member's Posts Re:Order #30, Apr 8 2007, 07:57 AM
I Pimp Reptile Cages & Reptile Cage Accessories
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Posts: 1854
Member No.: 76
Joined: 26-August 04
Any update on this for me?
Steve this oder will be going this week and the other one should be going out after the 16th as i have a show comming this week and I am trying to get everything finsihed and out before i leave this week on orders and build a few things for the show
Alan

Guess what? No cage. I sent another PM and got told of a delay again.

Re:Order #30, Apr 22 2007, 08:50 PM
I Pimp Reptile Cages & Reptile Cage Accessories
Group: Super Mod
Posts: 1854
Member No.: 76
Joined: 26-August 04
Any news for me?
Please let me know. I had to section a cage temporarily and really need this one soon.
Any update on this for me?
Steve this oder will be going this week and the other one should be going out after the 16th as i have a show comming this week and I am trying to get everything finsihed and out before i leave this week on orders and build a few things for the show
Alan

Hey Steve ,
Just got home from seeing my son the weekend. I have the cage with the doors in it ill unbox it and getthe acrylic sizes for you on it .Ill be sending it out Monday prob around noon as the fedex guy runs around then. Sorry for the delay and when i get the other one built i will let you and send it out to you also
Alan

Then I got this email. Finally it was shipping but it was not going to be a decent cage.

Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:35:50 -0400
To: "Steve Jordanides" <sjordanides@sbcglobal.net>
From: "Jungle Habitats Plastics" <info@junglehabitatsplastics.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Order Update #30

Jungle Habitats Plastics
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: 30

Detailed Invoice:
http://junglehabitatsplastics.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=account_history_info&order_id=30

Date Ordered: Thursday 08 FebruaryDate Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage
steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week.
this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as
my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front
but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the
item
that will be coming shortly

Your order has been updated to the following status:
New status: Your order has shipped

Please reply to this email if you have any questions.

Well, it never shipped in April as his email said so I emailed him in June. I know. I waited a long time but tried to give him the benefit of the doubt since I had dealt with him before and knew he was swamped.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Jordanides [mailto:sjordanides@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 2:49 PM
To: Jungle Habitats Plastics
Subject: Re: Order Update #30


Any update on the cage for me?
What about the idea for paint booth? That might be a new market for you.

Here was his reply.

From: info@junglehabitatsplastics.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: "Steve Jordanides" <sjordanides@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Order Update #30
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 23:02:21 -0400
Steve ,

I just got into the house been gone this week and i havent been spending alot of time on forums due to being so bizzy. I Will bee getting more plasticv next week and will have the white in that order It will honestly be about two weeks before it will be ready to go out from that date as i had soime damages i have to rebuild . I must have missed the paint booth thing ? if you can resend that info or email etc as i havent been on the forums in a many days .
Alan

Well, it arrived and I posted in his question section on a site about it. Notice it did not have vents. It was also not just dirty but nicked and scratched.

How do I put this damn lock on? I can't figure it out.

What can I use to drill to put vents in it?

What cleaner can I use that won't destroy the plastic?

His reply.

hey steve sorry took so long to get to this ,

the lock .. take a hammer or pliers and its made to be used by having it clamp to the glass/ acrylic. Take it OFF the door give it a tap or a squeeze and then slide it on . It should fir SNUG. That was a new lock i was trying it has stayed on my cage here but i have since ordered the other type just in case.

for cleaning there are a few things to try with those marks , one rubbing alcohol but you have to WIPE fast dont let it set. Thats why i personally hate white anything they show so many finger prints etc or scuffs on them lol but the next cage will not be like that lol that was under many sheets of black in the shop

Steve for vents it can be drilled with any reg drill bit or hole saw. I will send 3" vents to you in the other cage when its ready to go out to you also.

The line on the back is that being the first build of them and the sawblade cutting it so that it lays down as i didnt have a size on full sheet on that unit. All opf my cages do have a seam there where i join them ( if you look inside you will see the material is doubled up there and is 1/2" thick as it gives me a place to mount lights etc.


the box .. yeah FED EX wanted over $127 to ship that box lol i tell you large cages and the regular carriers are crazy now freight is the best way to move things now

Alan

My reply. I didn't feel like waiting for vents for this thing since it was not exactly a good cage and he was going to be sending a nice one anyway..

Don't worry about sending extra vents with the other cage. I'll vent this one. I just wanted to know if I needed a special cutter for it to prevent cracking.

Just put the 3" vents in the other cage if you can.

I know what you mean about Fed Ex. I charged someone $150 for overnight shipping last month (2 very large and heavy snakes) which was the quote from the Fed Ex site and when I got the bill it was almost $180. A lot more than what they said it would be.

They are getting out of control.

Even basic overnight for a small animal is getting expensive. I can't ship for under $50 once the fuel surchages, signature charges, and pickup charges are added in.

Thanks again and I look forward to seeing the other cage.

Well, then I get this PM from him.

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Find Member's Posts steve, Jun 26 2007, 08:28 PM
I Pimp Reptile Cages & Reptile Cage Accessories
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Member No.: 76
Joined: 26-August 04

Steve ,

The material came in today for that cage , I am crashing to finish up about 8 cages this week . Its going to be min of approx 7-10 days before ill be doing any building as im leaving this weekend to pick my son up for 2 weeks for summer break. He lives with his mom 3 hrs away so this is the firsttime i have since feb to see him and im not doing anything while hes here as we will be at the beach untill next thursday then ill be back here next weekend after that ill be doing some building in the shop then and will let you know when its ready . All ill ask is that you cover shipping & packing on the cage with DHL it should run approx $85 / $90 dueto size and fedex /UPS i know will be over $100 shipping alone on the cage due to the size
Alan

At this point I was done. Waiting forever, getting shipped a messed up cage, and now him wanting more money from me to get a cage in the condition I originally ordered months ago.

Re:steve, Jun 26 2007, 10:11 PM
[QUOTE]Have fun with your son.
I have to pass then. I am completely strapped for cash and my half yearly tax bill on my house is due July 1st which is almost $2500. No extra money for anything.

[QUOTE]Steve ,

This is where it ended.

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Find Member's Posts Re:steve, Jun 26 2007, 10:11 PM
I Pimp Reptile Cages & Reptile Cage Accessories
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Joined: 26-August 04

Steve ,
Let me know in the future if you want to do that and will be yours still . I just cant afford to foot the shipping on it as shipping has already darn near bankrupt me the 1st 1/4 this yr due to shipping increases going from $80 to $110+ with fedex on the large packages alonee this yr has run me almost $1200 from MY pocket due to i had already sold them and couldnt go asking for more on shipping so i ate ALOT and then had some damages that had to be rebuilt and shipper wont cover damages on cages due to they always say insufficent packing which is BS. so when things change on your end let me know and ill still send ya the cage ok ?
Alan

I apologize for the length of this post but wanted to include all correspondence. Right now I am very dissapointed in Alan. As I said in the begining of this thread, I do not want anything from Alan. I have found another source to get the slant front cages and will be ordering a 36 inch black one from them.

You can make up your own minds about whether or not you want to do business with Jungle Habitats. I have already come to my own disapointing conclusion.

[shrap]

Bummer Steve. You truly have had a rough year.

But you have to admit, this sounds eerily familiar to other people's experiences with Alan.

[romad119]

Outside of the details themselves. Just having to constantly having to pull the info from him would have made me leery. I would think Alan (Hall), once he busted his timelines, would have been keeping you informed from his end. That would at least show you hadn't been forgotten. Instead, you have to keep poking him to get what any customer should be getting.

Looks like you got bad customer service AND bad product.

[Dennis Hultman]

Date Ordered: Thursday 08 FebruaryDate Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage
steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week.
this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as
my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front
but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the
item
that will be coming shortly


Jun 26 2007
All ill ask is that you cover shipping & packing on the cage with DHL it should run approx $85 / $90


Steve, I just want to make sure I understand. You paid for a cage back in February. He said at least twice that your order was shipping out a specific week and it didn't.

He then stated your order was being sent again
Apr 22 2007, 08:50 PM
Ill be sending it out Monday prob around noon as the fedex guy runs around then. Sorry for the delay and when i get the other one built i will let you and send it out to you also but on that Friday he then send a email stating it wasn't your cage that was ready. instead, he his sending a freebie and will send the one you actually paid for later.
Date Ordered: Thursday 08 FebruaryDate Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage
steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week.
this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as
my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front
but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the
item that will be coming shortly

When it comes time for shipping the cage that you had already paid for, ( I assume you already paid shipping on the cage when you sent your initial payment) you get this message.
All ill ask is that you cover shipping & packing on the cage with DHL it should run approx $85 / $90

You declined. So, in the end you never did get the cage you paid for. You were shipped a cage that you were told was free and didn't ask for. The cage was in bad condition and you were told by the seller not to judge that cage as the item that will be coming shortly. The one you paid for.

If I understand the situation correctly, I'm assuming your purchase price was refunded shortly after declining to pay for shipping twice.

[SPJ]

You are exactly right Dennis except that I did not get a refund.
I wrote this entire thing off as a loss and a very disapointing expereince.

[critical bill]

You are exactly right Dennis except that I did not get a refund.
I wrote this entire thing off as a loss and a very disapointing expereince.

The first cage was sent to you as a freebie because it was crap! Go get your damn money back man!!! Its your money and you're entitled to that refund! Why would you let him keep it? You can be easily done with him for the delays and still have your hard earned money back.

[SPJ]

I sold the subpar cage he sent so I got 1/3 of the cost of the cage back that way. Alan doesn't use paypal and the way this deal went, I just figured 1/3 back was better than nothing. It's a small price to pay to find out that Alan is not the person I thought he was.

[Serafim]

Chuck is right Steve. You should get your money back. Chalking this up yo a bad experience isn't enough. He owes you a refund. Glad you did recoop some of your lose though.

[SPJ]

Like I said before, I want nothing from Alan.
This just really bothered me because at one time I had thought of Alan as a good guy and friend. We had spoken on the phone, thru emails, etc over the past several years. I never expected him to treat me in this way. I paid the price to find out I was wrong about Alan and I am now done.
I just wanted to outline my experience since if he would do this to someone he has known for years, what would happen to a total stranger that placed an order with him? The feeling of betrayal is worse than any monetary loss.

[E2MacPets]

The sentiment you expressed in your first and last post of this thread are something I have experienced firsthand. I'm sorry, Steve.

[Gary O]

Steve what the hell bro. You paid for it. That money is yours................ I usually do not get in the middle of deals that involve two friends but bro that is your money.

[Casey Hulse]

You are exactly right Dennis except that I did not get a refund.
That is unacceptable.
At least, tell him that you expect to be refunded the full amount that you paid, period.
He may possibly (although it is unlikely) feel like you are satisfied customer if you do not. Good luck

[SPJ]

I sent him a note asking if he could send the right cage without me having to pay again but I'm not expecting a reply or a cage.
At this point, there are other cage builders who won't lie repeatedly about ship dates, send subpar caging, and then try to get additional funds to get what you originally ordered in the first place. :(
Reptile Basics has slant front cages. I am going to order a black 36 inch one from them. I don't think I'll have the same experience with Rich as I did with Alan. I never thought I would get treated like this by Alan but I guess I was wrong. He can keep his cages. It's not a matter of money or cages. It's the way he handled this whole thing that turned me off.

[SPJ]

I even sent him a note to see what he could do for me regarding a price on a rack. I figured he could put some of what the cage was toward that. He didn't reply so I I didn't pursue a second chance. I no longer need the rack from him or anything else.

[Casey Hulse]

Steve, this is not a situation where you should be a nice guy. It sounds like he took your money, jacked you around and lied for months and months and you are going to walk away? No it is not about the money, it is the principle of it.
Pretend he just kicked your puppy! You should not let this go. :angry:

[kellysballs]

I dont know this guy but it sounds to me like you are letting him walk all over you because "you've known him for years". I agree with everyone else this guy needs to refund the money he has STOLEN from you.
Don't sugar coat it.

[kellysballs]

Oh and I just checked out his website. It has little boxes/icons that say FREE SHIPPING.

[SPJ]

It now says free shipping because he changed things and increased the cost of the items to make it look like you are getting free shipping. Basically built the shipping costs into the price now. He didn't do it that way when I originally ordered from him.

[SPJ]

Well, I have been getting messages since I started this thread. Alan owes a lot of people. It seems the way he did this with me is standard practice now for him.
Alan, you have several people you need to make things right with. :angry:
I am not going to be the nice guy anymore. I just sent him this email.


Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:25:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steve Jordanides" <sjordanides@sbcglobal.net> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Order Update #30
To: "Jungle Habitats Plastics" <info@junglehabitatsplastics.com>
OK Alan, I can't just let this go and forget about it. I am very unhappy with the way this whole deal went and from the private messages I have been getting regarding you, it seems you have been treating a lot of people like crap. Forgeting to include items paid for, not shipping when you repeatedly say you are, sending bad merchandise, and wanting more money after the fact. Enough is enough. You should know this is not how you treat people.
So, after saying that, I am giving you one week from today to do either of the following.

A. Ship me a black 36 inch slant front cage. Do not forget the vents this time and no knicks, scratches, and above all not dirty. It should be a product people would be glad to have received and what is expected when sending you money. I expect a legitimate tracking number. No saying it is shipped only to find out you were not being truthful.

B. A full and immediate refund of what you were paid for the crap cage you sent me. Full refund means cage and shipping costs. This can be sent in the form of a postal money order with a legitimate tracking number. Once again, I expect it to be sent when you say and not tell me it is only to find out you were not being truthful.

I am sorry it came down to this but the way you treated me and the way you have and currently are treating others is unacceptable. You cannot give bad service to people and expect them to pay more for you to do it right.

You have one week.
Cage sent that is exactly how I want it or a full refund.

I expect an answer telling what way you are going to handle this.

You really have disapointed me. I never thought you would act this way towards myself or others.

Steve

Jungle Habitats Plastics <info@junglehabitatsplastics.com> wrote:
Jungle Habitats Plastics
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: 30

Detailed Invoice:
http://junglehabitatsplastics.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=account_history_info&order_id=30

Date Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week. this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the item
that will be coming shortly

Your order has been updated to the following status:
New status: Your order has shipped

Please reply to this email if you have any questions.

[critical bill]

Good for you Steve! Theres nothing wrong with being a nice guy, but letting Alan keep your money just to wash your hands of it all only encourages him. If he gives you a hard time about this invite him here to the thread so we can slap him around for you.

[SPJ]

invite him here to the thread

We'll see what comes of it.


Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 08:33:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steve Jordanides" <sjordanides@sbcglobal.net> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Fwd: Re: Order Update #30
To: info@junglehabitatsplastics.com
No more writing it off as a bad experience since it appears that this is becoming a trend with you. Very disapointing!

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/sho...ead.php?t=98130
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=103501



Note: forwarded message attached.
Forwarded Message [ Download File ]

Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:25:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steve Jordanides" <sjordanides@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Order Update #30
To: "Jungle Habitats Plastics" <info@junglehabitatsplastics.com>

HTML Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer ]

OK Alan, I can't just let this go and forget about it. I am very unhappy with the way this whole deal went and from the private messages I have been getting regarding you, it seems you have been treating a lot of people like crap. Forgeting to include items paid for, not shipping when you repeatedly say you are, sending bad merchandise, and wanting more money after the fact. Enough is enough. You should know this is not how you treat people.
So, after saying that, I am giving you one week from today to do either of the following.

A. Ship me a black 36 inch slant front cage. Do not forget the vents this time and no knicks, scratches, and above all not dirty. It should be a product people would be glad to have received and what is expected when sending you money. I expect a legitimate tracking number. No saying it is shipped only to find out you were not being truthful.

B. A full and immediate refund of what you were paid for the crap cage you sent me. Full refund means cage and shipping costs. This can be sent in the form of a postal money order with a legitimate tracking number. Once again, I expect it to be sent when you say and not tell me it is only to find out you were not being truthful.

I am sorry it came down to this but the way you treated me and the way you have and currently are treating others is unacceptable. You cannot give bad service to people and expect them to pay more for you to do it right.

You have one week.
Cage sent that is exactly how I want it or a full refund.

I expect an answer telling what way you are going to handle this.

You really have disapointed me. I never thought you would act this way towards myself or others.

Steve

Jungle Habitats Plastics <info@junglehabitatsplastics.com> wrote:
Jungle Habitats Plastics
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: 30

Detailed Invoice:
http://junglehabitatsplastics.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=account_history_info&order_id=30

Date Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week. this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the item
that will be coming shortly

Your order has been updated to the following status:
New status: Your order has shipped

Please reply to this email if you have any questions.

[SPJ]

And to think I made excuses for him while he was in the middle of jerking me around. Stupid. :angry: Alan is NOT the person I had thought he was. Too many bad deals are coming to my attention either thru postings or private messages.

http://thereptileroom.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10794

[Serafim]

Steve I wish you luck. I think you have been more than fair and patient. Your refund should have come along time ago. I am glad you are not letting him get away with taking advantage of you. :thumbsup:

[Lucille]

I hope you get your refund, Steve.

[critical bill]

Oh wow....looky what the cat dragged in.

[Gary O]

Steve you know i think of both you and Al as friends. Bro you deserve a refund. No ifs ands or buts about it. I am personally going to email him myself to see why he would even think of doing this. Brother you are in the right. I know you have been waiting on that cage. I thought you got it. Really I thought you had it along time ago. Shows how much I keep up huh.

Sorry my friend.

But you deserve your money. You did not earn that money to give it away.

[PaulSage]

Wow, Steve. Sorry to hear about your all-too-familiar frustrations.

Alan... :NoNo:

[Laura Fopiano]

Well, I guess I'll chime in here too. I purchased a domain name from Alan a while ago, never got the paper work for it and had asked a couple of times if I could just have some of his funny t-shirts instead.
Apr. 27, 2006 Payment To Jungle Habitats Plastics Completed Details (https://history.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_history-details&info=dc9cramSq3sRWpGUREOIXDaUHAYazosL18Nz49GYIP78j r_ewFOJ1CNuFHy&history_cache=XDOgLda7uPMAAAAIDZw4nlVrlKIAAAADu9LV 9kaqN90AAAAAA6qi2f....................8NnDieVWuUog AAAAMaOPBlRdSsuv...............................w2c OJ5Va5SiAAAAAvc4.GZFnrw3AAAAAAMmAHX............... ......DZw4nlVrlKIAAAAC1C-cqEVqQHYAAAAAAxdcLf....................8NnDieVWuUo gAAAAKsedtyRSiS0AAAAAAC-duJ.....................w2cOJ5Va5SiAAAAAnziPTdE0lt r................................DZw4nlVrlKIAAAACQ LsU3kRdWrgAAAAAAphgEv....................8NnDieVWu UogAAAAI6rXklRFGmNP............................... wAAAAhECpqARt5T7wAAAAIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAGbmFycm93AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) https://www.paypalobjects.com/WEBSCR-480-20070831-2/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif -$75.00 USD $0.00 USD -$75.00 USD I haven't emailed him for about a month now, but I am long over due.
Steve I hope this works out for you.

[SPJ]

Thanks everyone.

From the looks of what I have been getting told, he owes a LOT of people.
I won't mention names since I was asked not to but if any of you decide to come forward, it would put more pressure on Alan. I know you are concerned that if you say anything Alan will not send you what is owed but people need to see how he has been treating his customers.

At this point, I doubt I will ever get a resolution and have it written off as not only a loss of money but of someone I had thought was a good guy. I hope this posting will at least get Alan to make it right with all of the others he is currently jerking around.

No replies to my PM's or emails to Alan but, based upon how this is going, that is to be expected.

Gary, I thank you for offering your help but I think it will fall on deaf ears at this point.

[PaulSage]

From the looks of what I have been getting told, he owes a LOT of people.
I won't mention names since I was asked not to but if any of you decide to come forward, it would put more pressure on Alan. I know you are concerned that if you say anything Alan will not send you what is owed but people need to see how he has been treating his customers.
I thought that was the case as well until I posted my frustration with Alan here. (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98130)

I hope this posting will at least get Alan to make it right with all of the others he is currently jerking around.
One can only hope.

[Wilomn]

There are two things I've said about alan for the last few years. One has to do with dirt and the intelligence of some people relative to it and the other was that he made some damn fine cages even though I would never buy from him.

alan, please don't be dumb as dirt. Don't be another matt greybeal.

Do what you know is right and take care of your customers the way you have ALWAYS said you did.

Come on man, you KNOW better than this.

[hhmoore]

Well, I've purchased a fair number of cages from Alan, and was planning on buying one of his new incubators...but frankly, I'm not real comfortable doing so at this point. Looks like I'll be watching for the outcome of this...

[JungleHabitats]

il lread this and ill be contacting steve and ill be putting more up later.

[SPJ]

il lread this and ill be contacting steve and ill be putting more up later.

Before you do that contact the people waiting on thermostats, light fixtures, vents, paperwork, cages, etc.

At this point I don't want anything but it would be nice if this thread was instrumental in helping the others who are afraid to post in getting what is owed to them.

[SPJ]

It's settled with Alan and me. I hope the others who are waiting will get their items.


Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 10:25:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steve Jordanides" <sjordanides@sbcglobal.net> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Order Update #30
To: "Jungle Habitats Plastics" <info@junglehabitatsplastics.com>
I felt like I had gotten taken by someone I considered a friend. It just ate away at me to the point where I had to vent.
This email is the paypal one.


Jungle Habitats Plastics <info@junglehabitatsplastics.com> wrote:
Jungle Habitats Plastics
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: 30

Detailed Invoice:
http://junglehabitatsplastics.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=account_history_info&order_id=30

Date Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: Steve , send me a paypal address for you im
sending you the refund for the balance of what you sold the cage for. The
refund will be for $80.50 from the balance of what you sold the other cage
for. If you were that unhappy you never told me anything about it and was
the first i heard of it . You could have told me you wanted to send the cage
back and get a refund and you would have got JUST THAT steve. I am not out
to screw you over i was just never made aware you were so upset. So please
send me apaypal info and you will get your $80.50 back.

As for emails I have been gone since friday and just got in so just got all
of this thanks .
Alan

Your order has been updated to the following status:
New status: Delivered

Please reply to this email if you have any questions.

[JungleHabitats]

Everyone is getting JUST what they ordered from me and compensation for delays . Its really hard to know someone is unhappy when im not contacted to be told of it . I am ONE person who does all the building etc here for cages ,( not enough profit to hire anyone so let not got there ) All cages and racks are now being CNC machined which is greatly increasing the timeline from order to shipout. Also this year has not been the best year for me here due to a terminally sick mother that belive it or not does come before ANYTHING i do when shes in the hospital i stay there nonstop untill she comes out so yea calls and other things will go un answered cause i am not here . From thursday of the week before my mother was in agaIN ( 4TH STINT THIS YR ) so i was not here she came home i went directly to the raleigh show the weekend as it had been paid for .way ahead of time . Not making excuses just telling it like it is if thats not goods enough for people then im sorry steve you will be getiing your refund shortly .
Alan

[critical bill]

The cage you sent Steve was a freebie. He was within his right to sell it or junk it or use it. You owe him the full balance for a new cage that he paid for and never received.

Sorry about your personal problems Alan. But a note on the forums, on your webpage, or a mass email to waiting customers would have fixed anyones misunderstanding. Everyone has a heart and could easily identify with your priorities.

[JungleHabitats]

Chuck , I appreciate your comments but the price he paid did not even come CLOSE to the full price of the type cage he got . Yes shipping went up x's two on lots of oversize packages so there for that reflects the price on the site now . Also on a side note Steve Reptile basics doesnt make slant front cages. I just spoke to rich and he doesnt make them or doesnt plant to make them he does however make a 3ft cage just to clear that up so there is no confusion

Alan

[critical bill]

Chuck , I appreciate your comments but the price he paid did not even come CLOSE to the full price of the type cage he got .
Alan

Alan...alan. The cage Steve got from you was a scratched and nicked up FREEBIE. You sent it to him as a freebie. He paid for a quality product and was provided excuses (no matter how valid) for months. And then to be told shipping had gone up in price since he paid for the cage you never sent.

This is wrong Alan. You owe him a full refund for the quality cage you never provided. Deducting from the price of a free cage that Steve sold because it wasn't what he ordered and had absolutely no use for is wrong.

But do what you want and what Steve agreed to. It still don't make it right.

[Wilomn]

alan, knock the dumb, er dirt, out of your ears.

You owe Steve a FULL refund. You know you do, we know you do, Steve knows you do.

You're swirling 'round the bowl right now, just a flush or two away from reputation down the drain. Don't screw it up further by getting all cheap on Steve and shorting him on what he's due.

What happened to the Old Alan, the Good Alan, who was always bragging about how he would never treat people poorly or screw them over, the guy who THOUSANDS of times said he would bend over backwards or even loose money to keep a customer happy?

Crap happens, and I'm sorry for your mom, but you just have not handled things well this last 18 months or so.

Get it together dude. Start by doing right by Steve. He stood by you for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

FULL REFUND alan, it's what you SHOULD do.

[JungleHabitats]

ok well steve could have told me at the time he got that cage he wanted a refund and didnt want a cage but he didnt , he didnt tell me ANYTHING to his displeasure about the cage or him being unhappy. He could have said Alan this cage isnt right so im sending it back for my money back .. he would have gotten it then I cant help the fact steve never brought this to my attention and decided to sell the cage rather then bring it tpo my attention . When we spoke and i mentioned to him shipping charges on the other cage he could have said then he would like to have a refund and Iwould have had him pack it up and ship it back on MY DIM E and he would have got a refund . Im sorry that you think i should pay for something he sold without telling me he wanted a refund or was unhappy hes getting EXACTLY what he paid out nothing less nothing more . If i had the cage he would get the full $180.50 back being i dont have the cage he will get the balance of what he sold it for which is $80.50 . Now with that said Im dont with the thread Steve getting his refund and I am going to build cages You all have a great day

[Dennis Hultman]

ok well steve could have told me at the time he got that cage he wanted a refund and didnt want a cage but he didnt , he didnt tell me ANYTHING to his displeasure about the cage or him being unhappy.

Alan, could it be because you told him that particular cage was free? It's the understanding that he was still waiting for his cage so he wasn't going to complain about a free one.

[Wilomn]

Next it's, My business has picked because of this thread, right alan?

Isn't that the next phase of the scumbags bow out?

Do the RIGHT thing alan and give him a FULL refund.

[JungleHabitats]

Dennis , He paid $180.50 for the cage he sold that cage for $100 hes getting his $80.50 back he will not be out anything he will be back to square one ... Im sorry if thats not pleasurable for you but thats how this is going to happen .

[Dennis Hultman]

Dennis , He paid $180.50 for the cage he sold that cage for $100 hes getting his $80.50 back he will not be out anything he will be back to square one ... Im sorry if thats not pleasurable for you but thats how this is going to happen .

I haven't stated anything negative either way on this thread. I asked a simple question as to why Steve might not have complained.

[JungleHabitats]

Wes you nor anyone else here will not force me to pay him more then the $80.50 he is due , hes getting everything he had in it BACK plain n simple i dont care how much you shout off your soap box wes hes getting what hes due nothing more nothing less. Good day folks far as I am concerned this is over and done Steve was happy and stated so, so I could care less what you want me to do wes you were not the customer so far as I am concerned between me and the customer things gave been made right
Have a good day

[ravensgait]

Alan, from reading the emails between you and Steve. It looks like the cage you sent Steve was a free one.. Has the free status some how changed now??

If the cage was free then you still owe Steve a full refund for the cage he never received.. Randy

[Griz]

I agree Randy. Either it was free or it wasn't. There's no room for interpretation here.

Griz

[Serafim]

Alans email regarding the freebie Order Number: 30

Detailed Invoice:
http://junglehabitatsplastics.com/w...nfo&order_id=30

Date Ordered: Thursday 08 FebruaryDate Ordered: Thursday 08 February, 2007

The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage
steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week.
this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as
my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front
but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the
item
that will be coming shortly

Your order has been updated to the following status:
New status: Your order has shipped

Please reply to this email if you have any questions

You never said anything other than freebie. Looks like you are trying to weasel out of Steves well deserved refund. I know he sold the "FREEBIE" but you cannot keep the diffrence between the freebie and what he ordered. Give the man his money back

[critical bill]

Alan, you can absolve yourself of guilt through excuses if you want. The cage was free. You made it from scraps. Bottom of the pile crap scrap stuff. It required Steve to do your labor that you had to instruct him how to do. You didn't even apologize.

Ya know...it didn't seem to embarrass you then when you had to instruct Steve how to make adjustments to a cage that you should have completed before sending. Why should it embarrass you now to keep part of his money and be a thief. Thats what you are right now...you do know that don't you? Just another thief we read about on fauna.

[Serafim]

Wes you nor anyone else here will not force me to pay him more then the $80.50 he is due , hes getting everything he had in it BACK plain n simple

Nobody should have to force you to do the right thing. I good business man would see the error in their behavior and make amends not make excuses and stiff a good guy of his hard earned money

[critical bill]

I good business man would see the error in their behavior and make amends not make excuses and stiff a good guy of his hard earned money

A good human being would have offered a refund immediately to his customer if the customer did not want to pay additional shipping charges that stemmed from months of lame excuses.

If everything on the planet comes before satisfying your customers the right thing to do is provide a full refund to those you owe for products not received and find a damn job with a great vacation and sick leave package.

I doubt Alan is bright enough to figure that out. But maybe its just a skill thing and scamming is the only thing he really knows how to do.

[critical bill]

Were rootin for you Steve! You tell that thieving son of a beechnut tree to to take that extra money he owes you and buy himself some pity because its the only way he'll sell cages around these parts.

[shrap]

It aint like this is an isolated case. He did the same crap to Paul Sage a year or so back. It only took Paul 10 months to finally get a fair resolution out of Alan.

Sadly you know there are many more out there experiencing the same crap.

[JungleHabitats]

Steve your Postal Money Order is on the way to you via UPS 1z4ar9470300704082,

Alan

[ravensgait]

Why do I get the feeling that the MO is only for 80 and change..... Randy

[SPJ]

That's fine. I am not out any money at this point. This is more than I had figured on anyway. I originally posted this not to get anything but to bring attention to the matter. It was after I found out the scope of what was going on, I decided to change course and work on an agreement with Alan.

Alan, please make it right with the people who contacted me privately. I am sure you know who they are. Please get them their items.

Like I said before, it was the way Alan handled this that upset me more than anything else.

[JungleHabitats]

I know of Two ppl waiting on something ,

Steph at triple moons who i shipped out a set of deli cup Displays and i forgot her helix and lights for her quad ( they went today please feel free to ask her she got her trackin) There is one person on RTB that is getting a cage. and one more that there stack is being built now . One thing on cages caused a delay is the method is no longer being done by hand and all are now CNC milled this will greatly reduce my time and i have also reduced the cages offered as some are no longer economical to ship assembled and are show delivery or local deliveries only. I have also made a hardware change that took time to get sorted out and it was in the middle of several orders those ppl were contacted and there order is going out this week and next week. I upgraded their order on new hardware and latches for FREE its real easy to set back and say pow they should have this that or the other but its not always cut n dry like a fairy tale. If I employed several person to work in the shop maybe its different but as a one man operation who builds , ships purchases and makes material runs ( 125 mile round trip when someone orders things if materials or stock is not in the shop) Most orders will now be i na 10 day to shipout window depending on the amount of orders placed . Am i perfect ?? no im human so with that if Steves is happy I am happy and personally its really no one elses business as it doesnt concern you so im out to make the customer happy and thats all i can say .


Also everyone over looked the fact that shipping increased on me when he bought the cage ( i had not gotten the increases in email ) but did when it shipped so other then that when steve gets the refund this week this thread is over for me you all may carry on all you like

Steve im sorry
Alan

For future reffercence is someone has issues call me the number is plasterd on my website. It really is aggrivating when you here of something when no one has dialed a number thats plainly listed on the site .

Alan

[JungleHabitats]

oh forgot there is also a stack going out next friday when i shipout again and a pair of cages which are being built all of these get built next week all these were ordered thursday / friday of last week so they will be there within the time alotted .

[Wilomn]

You do realize, don't you, that these are the exact same excuses you've used on SEVERAL other occasions when you've gone MIA and left people hanging, right?

It's the supplier, it's too far to drive, my costs went up, wah wah wah.....

You own the business, it's ALL your fault, the good the bad and anything else.

Why do you have to pass blame on to everyone else for your inability to run a successful business?

If you can't fill the order, don't take it.

If you take the order and something comes up to delay it, NOTIFY your customer, don't make them hunt you down.

And quit your bitchin, you're not the only one to have prices go up on what he sells, it happens to everyone. It's just that YOU'RE the only one whose customers consistently have to hunt you down to find out why they haven't recieved what they've paid for.

As late as 2 weeks ago I recommended you to someone looking for plastic cages. I also recommened a couple of other guys, saying you made an excellent cage but were really bad about delivery.

You're just off the list completely now, plain and simple.

[critical bill]

oh forgot there is also......

Just go away. Enough with the stories already.

[bsharrah]

Alan,

Your logic is severely twisted if you think you handled this appropriately. The customer pays the quoted shipping cost at the time the order is placed. If the rates go up afterwards, or before but you weren’t notified, that is the cost of doing business. To suggest this should be passed on to the customer or used as an excuse is retarded.

How can you tell Steve you are sorry when you knowingly delayed the order for months, sent him a cage you told him was free and not up to par, presumably to compensate him for the inconvenience, then deduct the cage from his refund? Not to mention, although I guess I am, that you wanted him to pay additional shipping on top of what he already paid and was put through. Strange way to apologize if you ask me.

No one with half a brain is going to read this thread and think you did the right thing, let alone send any business your direction. A full refund at this point wouldn’t make this right. A partial refund is absolutely pathetic.

Bart

[SPJ]

A full refund at this point wouldn’t make this right.
Bart

I don't think that will happen so I figure this matter is closed.
I read the Joe Lydon thread. Interesting read. LOL.
I guess BS'ing you, leaving you hanging, and changing the deal on you are how some people treat friends. That's what burned me up more than anything. If it was someone else, maybe I would have moved on but this REALLY bothered me. A total stranger....maybe they would treat you this way but not someone you considered a friend.
Like I said all along Alan, it wasn't about the money or the cage that really got me. It's the way you just BS'd me with no second thoughts. It just kept eating away to the point where I needed to vent about it.

[Ladywhipple06]

I understand that sh*t happens... people get sick and families have problems. But if these things are affecting your business and customer service, it's time to put a notice up on your website: "Until further notice..."

If you can't run a business right, don't run one.

[SPJ]

Well, I posted that "you can decide".
I think Alan has shown enough for people to make up their minds.
I am done. He obviously sees nothing wrong with how he handled this from day one.

[floridaboy85]

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, obviously Alan just doesn't get it. I just want to state, as a potential customer, I will never order anything from Jungle Habitats or Alan Hall , because of the way he treats his customers. Ever!!

[Serafim]

I believe alot of people share that same feeling. Its a shame too cause 100 bucks is costing Alan probably thousands in potential business. I myself looked over his cages and was tempted at one point to make a purchase. After all this I will not even discuss his name among my friends..

[Jbreddawg]

Well I have decided :yesnod: That probably would have been the best hundred bucks Alan even spent !! But he turned it into the worst hundred bucks he ever saved :shootfoot

I have taken some serious losses before . It's part of doing business . You can recoup losses but you CAN"T recoup a reputation :rolleyes_

[SPJ]

A money order in the amount of $80.50 arrived today.

[Casey Hulse]

A money order in the amount of $80.50 arrived today.
So given the facts, he still owes you $100.00
As far as I am concerned, the banged up cage was a gift to you for your patience.

[SPJ]

So given the facts, he still owes you $100.00
As far as I am concerned, the banged up cage was a gift to you for your patience.

There is no way he is going to send the $100.
He was very clear that the $80.50 is it.
No sense in arguing since it won't change his mind. I'll take what he sent but will not recommend him or attempt buy from him again.

[Wilomn]

alan "dumb as dirt" hall/ brucie "the crybaby" stephensen.....what's the difference?

300 lbs of fat.

NOTHING else.

Way to alan, you're truly a lying theiving scumbag now.

[SPJ]

Here's a summary for those who don't want to go thru all the pages.

Alan recieved the payment for the cage.
Feb 17 2007
hey just wanted o let ya know it got here today
Alan

First time getting told it will ship.
Apr 8 2007
Steve this oder will be going this week and the other one should be going out after the 16th as i have a show comming this week and I am trying to get everything finsihed and out before i leave this week on orders and build a few things for the show
Alan

Not shipped. Got another promised ship date.
Apr 22 2007
Hey Steve ,
Just got home from seeing my son the weekend. I have the cage with the doors in it ill unbox it and getthe acrylic sizes for you on it .Ill be sending it out Monday prob around noon as the fedex guy runs around then. Sorry for the delay and when i get the other one built i will let you and send it out to you also

Not shipped again. Got this note with yet another ship date and told this cage was free
Apr 27 2007
The comments for your order are: doors are 15 1/8 x 18 for the cage
steve I
am waiting on white for the other cage to come in sometime next week.
this
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as
my
white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front
but its
dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the
item
that will be coming shortly

Your order has been updated to the following status:
New status: Your order has shipped

Guess what? Not shipped again.
Jun 2 2007
Steve ,

I just got into the house been gone this week and i havent been spending alot of time on forums due to being so bizzy. I Will bee getting more plasticv next week and will have the white in that order It will honestly be about two weeks before it will be ready to go out from that date as i had soime damages i have to rebuild . I must have missed the paint booth thing ? if you can resend that info or email etc as i havent been on the forums in a many days .
Alan

Cage arrived. Bad shape and missing vents.
Jun 13 2007
How do I put this damn lock on? I can't figure it out.
What can I use to drill to put vents in it?
What cleaner can I use that won't destroy the plastic?

hey steve sorry took so long to get to this ,
the lock .. take a hammer or pliers and its made to be used by having it clamp to the glass/ acrylic. Take it OFF the door give it a tap or a squeeze and then slide it on . It should fir SNUG. That was a new lock i was trying it has stayed on my cage here but i have since ordered the other type just in case.
for cleaning there are a few things to try with those marks , one rubbing alcohol but you have to WIPE fast dont let it set. Thats why i personally hate white anything they show so many finger prints etc or scuffs on them lol but the next cage will not be like that lol that was under many sheets of black in the shop
Steve for vents it can be drilled with any reg drill bit or hole saw. I will send 3" vents to you in the other cage when its ready to go out to you also.
The line on the back is that being the first build of them and the sawblade cutting it so that it lays down as i didnt have a size on full sheet on that unit. All opf my cages do have a seam there where i join them ( if you look inside you will see the material is doubled up there and is 1/2" thick as it gives me a place to mount lights etc.

Don't worry about sending extra vents with the other cage. I'll vent this one. I just wanted to know if I needed a special cutter for it to prevent cracking.
Just put the 3" vents in the other cage if you can.
I know what you mean about Fed Ex. I charged someone $150 for overnight shipping last month (2 very large and heavy snakes) which was the quote from the Fed Ex site and when I got the bill it was almost $180. A lot more than what they said it would be.
They are getting out of control.
Even basic overnight for a small animal is getting expensive. I can't ship for under $50 once the fuel surchages, signature charges, and pickup charges are added in.
Thanks again and I look forward to seeing the other cage.

Now I am told the free cage that I was not supposed to judge him on is no longer free.
Jun 26 2007
Steve ,
The material came in today for that cage , I am crashing to finish up about 8 cages this week . Its going to be min of approx 7-10 days before ill be doing any building as im leaving this weekend to pick my son up for 2 weeks for summer break. He lives with his mom 3 hrs away so this is the firsttime i have since feb to see him and im not doing anything while hes here as we will be at the beach untill next thursday then ill be back here next weekend after that ill be doing some building in the shop then and will let you know when its ready . All ill ask is that you cover shipping & packing on the cage with DHL it should run approx $85 / $90 dueto size and fedex /UPS i know will be over $100 shipping alone on the cage due to the size
Alan

At this point I had had enough and said forget it. It kept bugging me how I was treated so I finally brought the issue to the BOI.
I ended up selling the cage for a reduced price to recoup some of my money.
Alan replied in this thread that he was issung a refund to me minus what I sold the "free" cage for.
hes getting EXACTLY what he paid out nothing less nothing more . If i had the cage he would get the full $180.50 back being i dont have the cage he will get the balance of what he sold it for which is $80.50 .

A money order for $80.50 arrived today. Sept 6 2007.

Alan lied several times about ship dates, changed the terms of the deal, and left me hanging for months. Then deducted $100 from the refund amount.

Well, that's it in a nutshell.

[kellysballs]

Sure enough.
He sealed the deal. My status of possible customer has definatly changed to no way will I ever purchase any thing from him.

[Dennis Hultman]

Dennis , He paid $180.50 for the cage he sold that cage for $100 hes getting his $80.50 back he will not be out anything he will be back to square one ... Im sorry if thats not pleasurable for you but thats how this is going to happen .


I haven't stated anything negative either way on this thread. I asked a simple question as to why Steve might not have complained.


The obvious answer is that you can't simply address the question because you would have to discuss why this statement has been rescinded.
cage coming is a freebie i will be building the paid for one soon as my white gets in to my suppliers . When i say freebie its a slat front but its dirty plastic on the white so please dont judge that cage as the item that will be coming shortly

Why do you think Steve didn't complain again?

Originally Posted by JungleHabitats
Dennis , He paid $180.50 for the cage he sold that cage for $100 hes getting his $80.50 back

How could he have sold that cage (The one he paid for) if he never received it?
It really is simple. Any person with basic reading comprehension can understand.

Originally Posted by JungleHabitats
he will not be out anything he will be back to square one .
That's not a very appealing company motto in my opinion.

But you forgot the manual labor Steve had to put into the cage. The time to sell the cage. The time he wasted. The need to find other suitable housing. But hey, your OK to leave the customer back at square one after months of promises then that's your prerogative. Good Luck....

JungleHabitats.. Shop with us..We will leave you back at square one after months of waiting...

[David_Means]

I was GOING to place an order for some cages from JungleHabitats but, after reading this NO WAY that will happen. Poor customer service pay the man his $100.

[Chance]

Though I don't rank among the more known folks on this thread, I too wanted to add that Jungle Habitats will never receive any orders or recommendations to friends from me. What a pity....

[biff]

...how much $$ would Alan have sent to Steve if he had NOT sold the "free, yet not-so-free cage".

I can't believe that Steve is being punished financially by Alan delaying shipping and then finding out that the price of shipping went up drastically. :NoNo:

Steve, I hope Alan's conscience bothers him enough to send you what you are owed, plus an extra $15 for interest!! ( I wouldn't hold my breath though).

good luck,

Steve Himes

[Hypancistrus]

I emailed Alan in June to enquire about having a lid made for my 30 gallon breeder tank... he replied saying he needed inside dimensions of the tank and he'd then make the lid and ship it. Fortunately (for me, I guess) an injured turtle came along that needed the tank and I decided against procuring the lid... obviously would have been lost money... thanks for the thread Steve. The BOI has saved my arse on numerous occaisions... this being one of them.

[hartsock]

:shock:

wow.....wow.... I am speechless...

I know Steve somewhat from the forums and I know Alan too slightly. I checked into getting cages from Alan and had plans on getting a nice large stackable setup. The only thing that held me up was the fact that my income tax was audited this year and I have just now got my return last week! I can't believe I am saying this, but thank God for the IRS! I cannot understand why a cage would take any longer to build than a week....absolutely no longer than a week if it is your business. I mean come on, if that is you business and you do it all the time, you get proficent at it and can do it quicker than the average person, plus how would you make any type of living or even an extra income (other than screwing people) if it takes you months of making a cage?

As far as customer service, when a thread like this one pops up, any true business person is going to bend over backward to make it go away. Even if they don't feel they wronged the person, they go the extra mile to protect their reputation. Steve deserved a full refund, whether he ask for it or not, whether Alan you feel it was justified or not, you should have sent it. If you can't afford it, than you shouldn't be in business, plain and simple. That businiess of a partial refund on a defective, free cage is what killed my order. Even up to that point, had you come on here and said, "hey guys, I know I have messed up, I'll make this right" I would have still placed my order. I would have given you another look because life does happen to all of us. But there is no excuse for your attitude in all of this...you are upset because people are mad at you? Well, think about it, they have a reason to be. You can take the "it's my ball, I'm going home" attitude and you'll end up sitting by your tools wondering why no one is placing any orders. We talked in pms about me even coming by to pick up the cages if I went down to Atlanta, let me tell you, I am so thankful I found this thread and didn't show up on your doorstep expecting to take some cages home and be leaving there with diddly. You can be thankful of that too, because I would have followed you from board to board, post to post and rang the alarm bell as loudly as I could have.

Steve was patient, Steve was kind and trusting......you screwed him over big time, sell your tools and take the money to pay him back along with all your other customers that are going through the same stuff, before you end up sued at some point, because eventually you are going to mess over the wrong person who doesn't write it off as experience.

Heck, I feel betrayed some way and I was only going to place an order!

[jrgh17]

I wish I had checked this before I ordered. :(

I got two cages from Alan. He promised to include lights and heating on both of them. Got the cages - no lights, no heat. I e-mailed to ask him about it, and he promised they would be here by Tuesday. It's been two weeks... I think I'm just going to order Flexwatt from somewhere. :(

[snake5007]

You should contact him for refund. Don't let him get away with it.

[Suncoast Herpetological]

He was reading this less than an hour ago. I guess he didn't have anything to say

[jrgh17]

He has contacted me, and hopefully we've reached a solution.

[snake5007]

That's good to hear! Damn, that was quick! I hope you get what he owes you. :)

[SPJ]

That's good to hear! Damn, that was quick! I hope you get what he owes you. :)

Doubtful. :rolleyes:

[jrgh17]

Just so everyone knows, I did get lights and heating for both vivs on Tuesday, as we arranged.

[deborahbroadus]

Thanks all for this post. :)

I don't say much, but I follow these boards faithfully. In spite of the fact that some of you got burned, you have saved many others that research before buying from the same fate.

Thank you all.

[SPJ]

Since Alan now says it's all my fault I never got the cage due to omitting information, I refer HIM and everyone else to post #1 and post #4 in this thread.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=540871&postcount=1

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=540934&postcount=4

It contains the information that he claims I omitted about paying shipping again.

You really are piece of work Alan. You caused the entire fiasco.
Deja Vu. You'd think this thread was about Matt Graybeal.

[SPJ]

I should have known years ago just what type of person Alan really is. :rolleyes:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47042

[E2MacPets]

I should have known years ago just what type of person Alan really is. :rolleyes:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47042

Back in the days when Alan was a chatroom moderator here and harassing me because I was selling AP racks...

good times.

[KelliH]

I thought you were pushing Alan's racks before that??

[E2MacPets]

I was offering both at one point, mainly started offering Alan's after already being an affiliate of AP because he was a friend (I don't recall if I even was offered a cut, never sold a single one anyway) until he started playing games in the chatroom here.

He's a class act. Even has (or used to have) a quote from me on his webpage, used without permission, from when I was attempting to promote him.

[JungleHabitats]

I was offering both at one point, mainly started offering Alan's after already being an affiliate of AP because he was a friend (I don't recall if I even was offered a cut, never sold a single one anyway) until he started playing games in the chatroom here.

He's a class act. Even has (or used to have) a quote from me on his webpage, used without permission, from when I was attempting to promote him.

I told you i would give you 10% of each sell you made , you then came back wanting a outstanding 35% THATS when i told you it wasnt going to workout and you got bitter cause you wouldnt be able to make a living off selling stuff for me and getting a WHOPPING 35%

You mean these comments steve ?
Comments: E2MacPets Steven Beckerman - 01-10-2004 Alan's a great guy with some very innovative ideas that should contribute to improving our hobby as a whole.Competition helps everyone, especially when the competition is led by such talented and creative forces as JungleHabitats ...

its a REAL shame i dont have the old PC Steve as i could show lots of emails that conflict your statements now ...

[snake5007]

I told you i would give you 10% of each sell you made , you then came back wanting a outstanding 35% THATS when i told you it wasnt going to workout and you got bitter cause you wouldnt be able to make a living off selling stuff for me and getting a WHOPPING 35%

You mean these comments steve ?


its a REAL shame i dont have the old PC Steve as i could show lots of emails that conflict your statements now ...


I see that you've found the time to post in THIS thread, how about your other one?

[gbcop]

I told you i would give you 10% of each sell you made , you then came back wanting a outstanding 35% THATS when i told you it wasnt going to workout and you got bitter cause you wouldnt be able to make a living off selling stuff for me and getting a WHOPPING 35%

You mean these comments steve ?


its a REAL shame i dont have the old PC Steve as i could show lots of emails that conflict your statements now ...


You still haven't explained why after 4 days of returning home from "your sick mother" you didn't feel that it was necessary to contact me and explain the huge delay in shipping Alan.