Best Places to advertise

[GottaLuvHerps]

Hey gang. I need some help with planning the advertising the Central PA Reptile Expo for the 2009 season. I plan on seriously upping my online advertising, and need to know the best places to start throwing up banner ads and posting on forums to get the most out of my time and money.

This first show (next Saturday), I made sure the show was on the calendars of KS, Fauna, Reptile Geeks, Reptiles Magazine, Reptastic, Bearded-Dragons.org, Alex Hue Forums, and a few others I can't remember, as well as posting in all of their forums regarding the show, and bumping repeatedly as time got closer. I also made sure KS had it on their show listing that comes up on the front page, and all of the 09 shows are listed there as well and have been for a few weeks.

My main question is - where do I run the banner ads? What sites (besides KS and Fauna, to me those are givens) would give me the most advertising bang for my buck? I don't care what type of forum it is (general, lizards, snakes, etc), but I need to know where the traffic is. My "home" is basically here (Fauna) and Reptastic (I am a mod there), and not being a snake person, I am not sure of the best snake forums out there that get traffic. We are also advertising in Reptiles Magazine in print starting in the January issue, and are on their show list for all dates, as well as getting an online classified, so that end is covered. Honestly, their banner ad pricing is a bit too much for me to consider just yet ($500 a month for 50,000 impressions per month).

So, where do you all get the most clicks on your banner ads? What sites do you visit the most and actually pay attention to the ads running? What forums do you visit and check out their calendars and events sections? Any other advertising help you might have would be great! Thanks for the help in advance!

Kelly Kordek

PS - The banner ads I have were designed by Steph (Triple Moons), and I think that simply because of how incredible they are, they will attract attention. Thanks Steph!!

[enviedreptiles]

ball-pythons.net and redtailboa.net get a lot of traffic. I dont about their advertising rates, but you could register and create a post, which will get you more views, and possibly more people in the show.
Good luck,
Nick

[TripleMoonsExotic]

What I would suggest is use a website like Alexa (http://www.alexa.com/) to determine what websites are actually getting traffic. It won't be detailed statistics, but you can at least learn if your money would be better off spent somewhere else.

Kingsnake and Fauna beat out Reptiles Magazine (ReptileChannel.com), btw. ;)

[WebSlave]

What I would suggest is use a website like Alexa (http://www.alexa.com/) to determine what websites are actually getting traffic. It won't be detailed statistics, but you can at least learn if your money would be better off spent somewhere else.

Kingsnake and Fauna beat out Reptiles Magazine (ReptileChannel.com), btw. ;)

I used to check the stats in Alexa, but when I found out that they were only determining hits from PCs that were using their own toolbar installed, I lost interest in them. I didn't feel it was a very good tool for determining REAL traffic.

As for another site to consider for advertising, perhaps CornSnakes.com would be worthwhile. It's getting quite a bit of traffic, and quite a few members are in the northeast USA.

Good luck with the show!

[TripleMoonsExotic]

That's interesting. I didn't know that. Alexa has always been the most recommended comparison website. I'll see if I can find any other comparison web sites. I know I had one bookmarked on my laptop, but the laptop died. :)

[GottaLuvHerps]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I am already running banner ads now here for the October show (albeit a little late in the game), and fully plan on running them for 2009, and KS is a no-brainer, no matter how inflated their prices might be. The ReptileChannel prices are just way out of my league, and I doubt they will ever BE in my league, but I am running text ads for January's show, and probably will move up to print ads for March. Again, no brainers there I guess.

I GUESS I can check out who this guy is that runs Cornsnakes.com is and see if he is worthy of my business as well, but who knows :D

I will have to check out the other sites as well. I just want to know where people are that go to shows, as I want the most exposure as possible being a new show. I can't complain so far though, I have almost sold out of the first show (only about 10 tables out of 70 left), but the 2009 shows are going to be MUCH bigger in our new venue.

I think the show is going to be a success, and with as much as I have left to do for the October show next week (GOD is it really that close???), I am already looking ahead to 2009 with a TON of energy. And with these great banners I have from Steph, that will help the advertising a LOT!

Kelly

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I GUESS I can check out who this guy is that runs Cornsnakes.com is and see if he is worthy of my business as well, but who knows

Wasn't sure if you were being silly or not...But Rich owns Cornsnakes.com too. Advertising for it is under FaunaAds, just like for here.



As for the stat thing...I found one of them I was thinking of...

Marketleap (http://www.marketleap.com/publinkpop/)
• Link Popularity Check
• Search Engine Saturation
• Keyword Verification

Also, if you use Google Analytics on your website, you can use it to accurately track whether you are getting a certain amount of traffic from a given website. So you could run a test for a month and see if you're getting in the web traffic before you commit to long term advertising with a particular website.

[GottaLuvHerps]

Wasn't sure if you were being silly or not...But Rich owns Cornsnakes.com too. Advertising for it is under FaunaAds, just like for here.

Yup, totally being silly. But I still need to figure out if Rich is worth my advertising dollars...I'm just not sure I like him or not yet ;)

Also, if you use Google Analytics on your website, you can use it to accurately track whether you are getting a certain amount of traffic from a given website. So you could run a test for a month and see if you're getting in the web traffic before you commit to long term advertising with a particular website.

I do have Analytics installed, good idea. Kind of a duh thing, but with everything else going on I totally forgot about that. It's one of those days...LOL

Kelly

[hhmoore]

You could always ask people on their way in where they heard about the show...

[GottaLuvHerps]

You could always ask people on their way in where they heard about the show...

I do plan on having a survey type of thing for the vendors to fill out for feedback on their end, but I will make sure that the people running the admission table will be asking, good idea. I am also thinking of putting up a survey online for the customers to fill out to get feedback as well after the show.

See, this is why I need you guys to help me think. My brain is so fried I can't come up with the simplest things!

[WebSlave]

Yup, totally being silly. But I still need to figure out if Rich is worth my advertising dollars...I'm just not sure I like him or not yet ;)

Kelly

A long while back that guy who own CornSnakes.com posted on rec.pets.herp about his thoughts in running a new show. Someone captured that post and put it on the web (http://www.herpcam.com/herpshows.htm):


This was originally a post to the newsgroup rec.pets.herp (news:rec.pets.herp) by Rich Zuchowski, the owner of Serpenco (http://www.serpenco.com/), which specializes in many morphs of Corn Snakes and Leopard Geckos. The first part is a portion of the question asked, so readers can take the information in context.
> So, breeders, let me know, what does it take to get you to decide whether or not you participate in a show...what are the more desirable characteristics? Dates, table fees, locations and so on...please, we really would like to set this up, maybe even this year...any advice is always welcome!

Rich's Reply:

I guess it depends on what sort of show you intend to do. A flea-market/swap style meet, or something that has a little bit more class to it.

I'm just below Tallahassee, FL, so something like this might be of interest to me, but like anything else, it depends.

Some things you will need to consider:

(1) Is the show date going to conflict with another BIG show somewhere else? If you are going to try to draw well known vendors, they will probably be booked nearly a year in advance.
(2) If you're doing a flea market/swap meet, you can probably do one pretty quickly and get a moderate turnout, no matter what. If it's going to be a big affair, you are probably too late for this year since it will take more planning and commitment than you can squeeze into the time remaining for this season. Advertising in major publications usually has a three month pipeline and most people probably already have plans in mind for this year.

(3) If it looks like it's going to be a big affair, attendees
(non-vendor types) will plan their vacations around it. If it's in Panama City during the summer months, that could work out well. Hoping that no hurricanes pop up, of course. Try to pick a place for the show that has some alternatives for the significant other that might not be all that interested in the herps.

(4) Generally, we greatly prefer a two day show. This is for a couple of reasons. Generally it's a lot of trouble getting ready for, setting up, and then breaking down for a show. Trying to compact that all in a single day is a real pain. The Saturday nights of a two day show are
about the only time my wife and I get to relax during the months between March and October. So if your show is a one day show and only 3 hours away and another competing show is 8 hours away and a two day affair, we will go to the two day show. Vendors very often will make more at a two day show than a one day show. And quite frankly, if they don't make anything on the first day of the show, they might as well pack it up and go home anyway rather than be there for the following day.

(5) Are you going to make it a reptile only show or an 'exotic animal show? Exotic animal shows will bring in more people, which is good for the promoter, but it's damn aggravating for most of the vendors. Let's face it, no one coming to the show with the intention of buying a bird or going to the petting zoo in the back is suddenly going to get smitten with a desire to buy the reptiles on the other tables. It's about as likely as me suddenly whipping out my wallet to buy a cockatiel across the aisle from me. Ain't going to happen. So what the reptile breeders wind up being is cheap thrills for the mass of gawkers who come through the door and point at the snakes in deli cups saying "Yuch!! How many of them thar snakes is poisonous?"

(6) What's the price of admission going to be? You need to find the price point that is low enough that most people won't squawk too loudly but high enough to keep only people that are planning to buy coming into the door rather than those people just bored and looking for something to kill the time. I know you can sometimes get a first time buyer from these gawkers, but it's more the exception than the rule. I know this sounds cold, but unless the vendors are selling animals and making some money at the show, they certainly have better things they could be doing with their time.

(7) Baby strollers? Again, I know this sounds cold, but anyone whom has been to a large show and gotten their ankles busted on a baby stroller knows what I mean when I say they should stay outside. I think Wayne Hill's policy is that they are banned from his show and with good reason. I might have sold animals to someone pushing a baby stroller but if I did it was a rare enough event that I certainly don't remember it.

(8) Captive hatched only or anything goes? I'd rather have healthy wildcaughts on the table next to me than sick captive hatched. It would be well worth while to have a health policy in effect and a vet at the show to inspect and eject any animals that don't make the grade. I've been to more than one show where I watched people sell an animal that I just knew wasn't going to live through the trip home to some enthusiastic kid that didn't have a clue what he was buying. A show's lifeblood will be repeat business. Yeah that guy made his one sale, but is that kid coming back for the next show?

(9) ADVERTISE HEAVILY!! And not just in the national herp magazines. The local population needs to know about it and far enough in advance that they can make plans to be there. We did a couple of shows out in Jacksonville, FL where the promoter's idea of advertising was to hang a banner on the fence along the road to the motel where the show was being held. He did that on the morning of the show. That show died a well deserved death very quickly.

(10) Advertise the show as a SHOW & SALE. I have honestly been to shows and had people standing in front of my tables lamenting the fact that they had no idea they could buy animals at the show. They didn't even think to bring any money with them. To some people a 'show' is like a car show, where you go and look at those things but you certainly don't expect you'll be bringing one home with you.

(11) Make a commitment to the show if you're really going to do it. There was another guy who had plans on doing 4 shows in this area a couple of years ago. Even had one planned here in Tallahassee. Problem was, we called all of the places he was supposed to be holding the shows and not one of them had been reserved for the dates of the shows. Not one. So, of course, that idea died on the vine because no one was going to send this unknown their money as a commitment for the show when he wasn't making a commitment himself.

(12) Talk to other promoters about how they do their shows. Attend a few and get a feel for what is behind it. A big affair is a major commitment on your time, money, and sanity. Don't jump into it lightly, but if you do decide to jump in, make sure you have all of your ducks in a line and then jump in with both feet. If you do a show half-assed, it will be a half-assed show, and that first impression will last a long time. News of the show will have spread to everyone before you're even done cleaning up afterwards.

(13) Try to get some mouse suppliers and cricket suppliers to attend as vendors at the show. You would be surprised how many reptile shows have faltered simply because prospective buyers were afraid they wouldn't be able to find food for their new purchases.

Whew!! This sure got me going! I know I missed some things, but this will give you plenty of food for thought.


Not too sure he knows what he is talking about, but I did hear that he slept in a Holiday Inn Express once..... :rolleyes:

[GottaLuvHerps]

A long while back that guy who own CornSnakes.com posted on rec.pets.herp about his thoughts in running a new show. Someone captured that post and put it on the web (http://www.herpcam.com/herpshows.htm):

Not too sure he knows what he is talking about, but I did hear that he slept in a Holiday Inn Express once..... :rolleyes:

Yeah, and where the hell were YOU when I was planning this fiasco, I mean show? LOL. (I am a week away, so for me right now it is a fiasco, but I am loving every minute of it!).

Some really good advice there though. Luckily, I think I actually have done or considered all of these things, if not at least most, when doing this planning. We are considering branching out into 2-day shows, maybe 1 a year after things get established more.

I guess so far I can't complain, we are almost sold out (I got 2 more vendors today), and the talk about the show is getting me phone calls from New York, Ohio, Virginia, MD, DC, PA and lots from Jersey from people who are just coming to the show as customers. I do want to step up my advertising though, as I just don't feel it was enough for my tastes. For 2009, along with the online stuff, I plan on hitting the local papers, and even the high school newspapers. I do have some vendors that already run newspaper ads that are doing us a huge favor and mentioning being at the show, so that helps too.

I guess we will see what happens next Saturday. I am so excited I am about to pop, but I am also so nervous I am about to scream. But considering I didn't start planning this fully until the 2nd week of May after I got married, things are going rather well.

Rich, thanks for the advice, I will take it very seriously. :D

Kelly

[Southern Wolf]

Another site you can check into is www.herpfamily.com

I am a Mod over there and we have been up and running for 3 years now. Were not as big as some... but we do have members in the NJ,PA,OH,WV area. Josh (GB2000) is the owner of the site and I think his rates are reasonable.