baby not eating.

[Allanira]

I have 2 baby ball pythons. They are about the same age and both are normals. I also think both are females, but dont quote me right now lol. One hasnt eaten in 2 weeks. Is this normal or could something be going on? I keep the temp around 80 during the day and around 75 during the night. They both shed last month. Ala (the one that didnt eat last week) shed on Oct 16, and Ajali (the one that did eat) on Oct 12. Could she be getting ready to shed maybe? TY in advance for advise

[FireStorm]

Is 80F your hotspot temp or the ambient temp? If that's the hotspot, that's low, which may be the problem. Also, dropping temps at night could be causing the baby to go off feed. What type of enclosure are you keeping them in?

You should be able to tell if they're getting ready to shed...they usually get a pink belly and then they go opaque (they'll look really dull and their eyes will get cloudy).

[Melinda]

:iagree:

I keep my babies at hotspot 84-85 and I do not turn the heat down at night. I'd keep the heat up and watch for signs of shed cycle.

[gsrept]

what is the current weight of the female that is not eating?

[Allanira]

I havent gotten weights on them. I also found mites on Ajali. I have Ala in with her hopper mouse right now to see if she'll eat it. Maybe she doesnt like this mouse or somethin. They should be coming up on a shed soon from everything that I have read but they dont appear to be ready yet. The bellies havent turned pink yet. I have their furnishings in bleach water and have cleaned out their habitat and put in newspapers. I also have Ajali soaking in warm water. Am I still doing right? I am going to leave their temp alone at what I have it set for day time just turn it up a little. I have a rheostat on a heat lamp and uth. I think I may be freaking for something of little consequence. I am really worried about mites though. I am going to order some mite off or something to get rid of them but I gotta do something now cause its causing me to itch and their habitat is in my bedroom.

[FireStorm]

You're right to treat the mites... I've heard Prevent A Mite (PAM) recommended before, but I've never treated mites myself so I'm sure someone else can be more help on that subject.

Are they housed together or separately? What are they housed in? How are you measuring temps? You need to bump the hotspot up to 88F to 90F.

Also, how are you offering food? If you're moving them to a different enclosure to feed, that may be an issue...BPs can be shy when it comes to eating.

[Allanira]

Since I got them I have been putting them in seperate containers to feed. I have them in a 29g high tank right now cause they are small and yes they are together. I usually put the mouse in the container then put them in. I use the same container each time. I think it might be the mites that is causing her not to eat. I am loath to use anything costic or toxic cause I also have cats, dogs, mice (in a totally seperate room) and 2 green eyed geckos (in a seperate room). The cats dont bother the snakes cause they know they will get hurt (usually popped on the rump) and they dont really like it lol. The dogs have never seen them. Even my cats that kill snakes wont mess with these cause they have learned that if it has my scent you dont mess with it. I have bumped up the temp and left it alone except when CLEANING. and when I say cleaning I mean I took it apart and scoured the dang thing big time. I have their furnishings drying after soaking in bleach water over night their rocks in the oven at 250 degrees. I soaked them in a mix of soap and salt for 30 min then dried them well. They werent happy. I am letting them relax for a few days before I do anything else to them. They are probably stressed hard right now. I looked at the water I soaked them in and it was full of dead mites. I used seven dust in their tank and "fumigated" for 30 min also. Then I scoured with bleach. Gotta love the bleach. I hope I am doing everything right. I also have their "curtain" in the washer right now. I have vacuumed and washed and scrubbed as best I could. I am thinking of getting some PAM but havent decided. I have newspaper in the bottom right now and a bowl of water for them but their not happy with me. Any more advise would be awesome and appreciated.

[FireStorm]

Since I got them I have been putting them in seperate containers to feed. I have them in a 29g high tank right now cause they are small and yes they are together. I usually put the mouse in the container then put them in. I use the same container each time. I think it might be the mites that is causing her not to eat. I am loath to use anything costic or toxic cause I also have cats, dogs, mice (in a totally seperate room) and 2 green eyed geckos (in a seperate room). The cats dont bother the snakes cause they know they will get hurt (usually popped on the rump) and they dont really like it lol. The dogs have never seen them. Even my cats that kill snakes wont mess with these cause they have learned that if it has my scent you dont mess with it. I have bumped up the temp and left it alone except when CLEANING. and when I say cleaning I mean I took it apart and scoured the dang thing big time. I have their furnishings drying after soaking in bleach water over night their rocks in the oven at 250 degrees. I soaked them in a mix of soap and salt for 30 min then dried them well. They werent happy. I am letting them relax for a few days before I do anything else to them. They are probably stressed hard right now. I looked at the water I soaked them in and it was full of dead mites. I used seven dust in their tank and "fumigated" for 30 min also. Then I scoured with bleach. Gotta love the bleach. I hope I am doing everything right. I also have their "curtain" in the washer right now. I have vacuumed and washed and scrubbed as best I could. I am thinking of getting some PAM but havent decided. I have newspaper in the bottom right now and a bowl of water for them but their not happy with me. Any more advise would be awesome and appreciated.


I can see a few issues with your setup that may be causing the baby to not eat, and mites is just one. First of all, BPs are not social so it's really stressful for them to be housed together. Second, a 29g tank is way too big for hatchlings. They'd probably do much better if you got them each their own 6qt tub with a hide and water bowl. That would probably make it easier to control temps as well (tanks have so much ventilation that it can be difficult). Then, feed them in their tubs instead of moving them so they will feel secure enough to eat. Some babies are really shy...I've had hatchlings that wouldn't eat when I was in the room, or if it wasn't dark, so I can see how if they are picked up and moved to a strange container they might not eat.

Hope this helps,
Shelly

[Allanira]

I usually feed them at night with the lights out and a blanket over them. I have a friend that had one die recently that was from the same clutch as 1 of mine and it got impacted cause it got substrat in its food. I dont wanna kill the babies. The temps stay around the same. The only time they dont is if I turn off their light. Which I dont do very often just when I go to clean and then the light goes back on as soon as Im done. They move around a lot and they have 2 hides to go into. One on the cooler side and one on the warmer side. They span the whole back or front of the tank when they lay out straight. I also leave them alone with their food for about an hour with the door shut so the cats cant see them either.

[FireStorm]

Most breeders feed in tubs (I do, and I use cypress) without any problems, but if you're worried about impaction, keep them on newspaper and feed them in their tubs, at least until they get established. They each need their own tub, smaller than what they're in now. You have a stressed baby that's not eating, and you need to resolve the issues that are stressing it or it's not going to do well. By keeping them together, you're also risking other problems like cannibalism, spread of diseases, and making it difficult to notice problems (if one regurges for example, you won't know which it was).

[gsrept]

i never seen or heard of cannabalism in ball pythons? i would be more concerned with trasnsmitting pathogens between each of the snake and now you say mites are involved that puts a whole different spin on it.most of the sprays out there do not work very well you need to get rid of not only the mites but the eggs as well and first step would be to get them seperatedand into a more controlled enviroment keep them clean use provent a mite and i use bleach to clean cages diluted of course kills everything and make sure you rinse with fresh water and dry befroe putting snakes back in, start there then work on feeding the more you handle and bother the snakes the less secure they will feel and with balls its all about security. good luck.

[FireStorm]

i never seen or heard of cannabalism in ball pythons? i would be more concerned with trasnsmitting pathogens between each of the snake and now you say mites are involved that puts a whole different spin on it.most of the sprays out there do not work very well you need to get rid of not only the mites but the eggs as well and first step would be to get them seperatedand into a more controlled enviroment keep them clean use provent a mite and i use bleach to clean cages diluted of course kills everything and make sure you rinse with fresh water and dry befroe putting snakes back in, start there then work on feeding the more you handle and bother the snakes the less secure they will feel and with balls its all about security. good luck.
Cannibalism occurs occasionally in probably most species of snakes...I don't have a specific example for BPs, but I've heard stories of it happening in enough different species that aren't known for the behavior that I would consider it a potential risk.

[Allanira]

I washed their tank in a diluted bleach mix and let it air dry after I rinse it really well. I am soaking them in water. It makes me itch just thinking about it. I have gotten a ton of mites off them by soaking. They are still mad at me for soaking them this morning. I am going to shampoo the carpet under and around their enclosure tomorrow and clean it again. How long should it take to get rid of the mites by soaking in reg water and bleaching the enclosure? I am changing the newspaper every day right now. This afternoon I didnt see as many mites on them as I did last night. I just about hit the roof when I saw them. Keep your fingers crossed for me please everyone.

[Melinda]

I have first hand knowledge of cannabalism in ball pythons. Last month I had some feeding ph axanthic babies together. These were fed at least weekly, usually every 4-5 days. I opened the tub to find one of them very squiggly and plump looking, well it quickly occurred to me what happened. I could see the pattern of the eaten snake through the eaters belly scales. I gave a upward gentle squish and the mouth of the eater popped open to reveal the tail of the eatee. I was able to grab the tail and pull the eatee out of the eater.

I think it's rare, but it does happen.

[SnakeGirl3]

Suzanna:

I do agree with everyone else here; there are issues that definitely need to be resolved.

Separate cages are best for ball pythons, for many of the above stated reasons. Stress is the major factor, and very likely the cause of food refusal. Even though you have hides for these snakes, the problem is, the snakes will compete for whichever spot or hide they feel is the "best" one, and therefore you have a dominant snake that gets the "good" spot and a dominated one that refuses to feed.

I do agree with everyone who has said feeding in a separate container isn't necessary--I've been keeping ball pythons for 10 years now myself and have always fed in the cage and have never had any issues with it. However, as long as you are co-habbing your snakes, feeding at least one outside of the enclosure is a must. Cannibalism has been documented in ball pythons before, and it usually (not always, but usually) occurs when a feeder is introduced to an enclosure containing more than one animal--one snake begins to consume the head end of the prey, while another snake in the enclosure begins to consume the tail end of the same prey item; one snake gets swallowed as the other eats the feeder. So your main issue is separating these two snakes. As already suggested, get a couple of 6 qt tubs to house them in, or you can get 2 10-gallon tanks set up for them (though the tanks will be a bit more expensive). Anything larger than a 10-gallon though may still cause stress issues (too much space for them to feel adequately secure), so be aware of that when setting up a new enclosure.

Mites are definitely a major problem and can become an even worse one (mites have been known to carry IBD--that's not to say that all mites do carry it, but they can). So the co-habbing issue comes into play yet again, because if one snake in the cage has them, they will spread to the other. However, it sounds as though you're doing your best to rid yourself of those, so let's not beat a dead horse. ;)

One other tip while dealing with mites: you can try using plain white paper towels as a substrate as well--you can see mites much easier on this than on newspaper, and can tell if the mite problem is getting solved. Paper towels can get expensive though, so once the mite problem is resolved you could switch back to newspaper.

Best of luck!

[Melinda]

Paper towels can get expensive though, so once the mite problem is resolved you could switch back to newspaper.

Great technique. Many mini storage places carry packing paper that is a light tan color and is a great substitute for newspaper. It's cheap too.

[rcpreis3]

One way Ive found of deterring mites, the one and only time I had them, was to get a can of Repel and just spray it on the snake directly and in the enclosure.

But u must do this properly to avoid poisoning ur snake.

First u make and "A-OK" sign around the neck of the snake so ur hand is covering its head and then close ur fist to cover the snakes whole head. With a ball this will not be easy as to them being head-shy. Be sure not to crush ur snakes head but to hold him firmly around the neck. The concept is kinda like a cow in the machine that keeps them still for vet examination. Except ur main objective is preventing spray from hitting ur balls face. After u secure its head u then spray down the entire body of the snake and set in a tank with NO WATER. Let them sit in there for a while (15-30 mins) to really get the mites to run. Then take the snake and wipe down it body with a baby wipe, then soak it once with out getting the head wet and then a second time to get whatever u missed.

If both snakes are housed together and one has mites, then they both have mites, so repeat this cycle again for ur other snake. Also spray down the tank, and all accessories. After 15-30 mins thoroughly wash all cage items and cage, and return the snakes, and then as stated before use paper towels as substrate to see if there are anymore mites.

Some may say that this is crazy or unsafe for the snake, but it worked for me three years ago, havent seen a mite since and still hold that boa everyday.

Oh dont forget to really wash the tanks u had them in while the repel was applied, dont want those mites to sneak out again. Repel wont kill them just send them running for the hills. Prolly better to leave the tanks on a porch.

Oh and after u spray them house them seperately.

As for the feeding issue I wouldnt give serious concern til about week 4 or 5 of not eating.

After u demite, seperate, and allow them to settle down. That one should start eating, shedding usually isnt a problem for me as most of my snakes will eat in full blue. But all animals have their individuality.

If u want u could try assist feeding which is placing the mouse in the mouth of the serpent and hoping instinct kicks in to eat, or if things get real bad then take it to someone with alot of expirience and ask them to force feed, BUT ONLY IF U HAVE TOO!!!

Force feeding should be last resort as it really stresses a snake, and u could damage their throat. But did help one of mine go from super scared to fearless, and she is a absolute sweet heart. Is she does good next time I may upgrade her from force fed status to assit fed. Shes really starting to come around for me!


Sorry this is so long but if I wanted to make sure I explained myself properly and adequetly.

If u choose to use repel the number one thing u must remember is DONT GET IT IN UR SNAKES FACE! From the aerosal or the residue running off in water.

Best of luck to u and lets us know how ur snakes turn out.

[Allanira]

I soaked them again in water last night then got out the tweezers for the ones that didnt come off. Im going to leave them alone today and let them relax. I think they are tressed right now. Also I have 2 hides right beside each other on both sides of the tank. the warm side and the cool side. So they will get the same amount of warmth or cool which ever side they are on. Neither of them are showing any signs of dominance over the other. I dont want to have to assist feed her at all. Gonna let her just relax for a bit then see how the mite thing is going. I got the recipe for the nix solution. Gonna try that in a day or 2 after they have calmed down. Also going to get some nix bedding spray and spray it on the floors after I move the babies out of the room. Gonna have to keep the cats out too. Wish me luck everyone

[rcpreis3]

Im going to leave them alone today and let them relax. I think they are tressed right now.

Gonna try that in a day or 2 after they have calmed down.

If u give them couple day breaks between mite bathes it might just make it harder to get rid of the mites. And if one isnt already eating than u dont really have to worry about stressing her a lil. Might as well stress her a little now and get rid of the mites now, than have the mites on her for weeks and keep stressing her. JMHO

[Allanira]

Yes!! awesome news. I didnt see any mites today. Might be a little early to celebrate but their still by my bed and the thought of mites any kind of mite freaks me out. They are seperated now also. I am going to try to feed them tonight if I can get food that is. If I cant get live then I will have to get frozen if that doesnt work then they will get fed on saturday or sunday. They arent acting as restless as they were. They are also not curling into a ball as soon as they see me either. They are now coming to me. Hope for they best. TY again for advise. These are my first ball pythons and I would prefer they dont die on me.