Ball Python's not selling?

[Nathan91]

I am new to the snake breeding community (if you haven't been able to tell by some of the questions I've been asking), and have just started to build up my collection (1.1 GTP, 1.1 BP, it's a small collection, but growing!). My question is: For those of you who have been around a while, are Bp's selling right now (or any snake for that matter)? Does there seem to be a slump? And also, if we are in a "snake slump", do you see any signs of things getting better?

[Subdriven]

The way I see it.. from the threads and the reptile shows everyone wants to be a breader so there are a market full of snakes and noone wants to buy... so prices are droping like crazy. took me 4 months to sell a single spider!! High white great contrast no wobble very nice looking spider... Others may have better luck and this is just my view on things.... hell, I just started breading in 2008 - 2009 season so I'm a newbie my self....

[FosterHerpetological]

I think there is a slump for not just snakes, but the reptile community as a whole, more people are breeding, and less are buying right now, but it will get better, history repeats itself.
It will get better with new morphs of bp, or even new morphs of different species that will come into light.
But then it will slump again.
Never ending cycle.
Stephen

[hhmoore]

The improvement won't be what people are hoping for, IMO. Too many people overproducing animals, then cutting prices to get rid of them. Sure, improvements in the economy may bring more people to the buying table, but the only way to strengthen sales will be to reduce production (especially of lower quality animals that shouldn't be in the breeding pool anyway)....and we know that isn't going to happen. For every person breeding carefully selected morphs, or getting out of the game, there are handfuls more coming in with their bargain basement animals producing as much as they can, just because they can.

[d0cking]

Well the way I see it... It is capitalism. When you have alot of people producing the same thing you are trying to sell, The prices will drop and each person will sell less. There are alot of "Breeders" out there. The only animals that will move easier will be the higher end (the ones that everyone doesn't have). It will get better when the economy rebounds (and it will). It will get even better when have of the fortune seekers figure out that they are not going to get rich and lose interest. If you are looking to make some money raising snakes... be willing to spend the money and buy the best animals before they get so cheap that everyone has one (like spiders, pastels, and some of the other base morphs).

[snowgyre]

I agree with Stephen and Michael. I'm actually not going to breed my leopard geckos this year because I haven't been able to sell the 14 babies I hatched this year, and my rack is full. It's disappointing because I reinvest all the money I make back into my reptile collection, but what are you going to do? Prices are too low, I don't have enough space, and the animals need to be cared for regardless if they find new homes or not. And, I refuse to drive the market down even further by having "blowout" prices. I'll keep them until I sell them for what they're worth. It seems like everybody who is buying right now are looking for "deals", and I've gotten some really insulting low-ball offers for my animals.

Thankfully, this is just a hobby for me, not a business, so I have the luxury of cutting back production. It's just a disappointment because now I'm not going to be able to buy anything for myself this year.

[Subdriven]

I have a job that pays me well more then enough to support my family. I didn't get into this to make money, I like the animals and have seen many amazing BP being produced. I am a small scale beginner that is trying to be picky about what I buy and what I make. I am not rushing to feed mine like crazy to get them to breader size since they are my family pets so I have time to chill and wait and see how things go... I did end up trading or selling all mine last year, but I only had a clutch of 8.. and that took 4 months!!! 4 sold and 4 were traded... I would hate to be one of these guys just buying anything ( bad gened morphs ) that don't care about the animals and producing like crazy and then be stuck with them all and have to feed them all.

[mikeyt]

I pretty much agree with everyone here on what has been stated. One thing that has not been mentioned as a contributing factor to the decline in sales is the number of shows currently running. There are so many shows that there is no reason for any one buyer to make a descision to buy on an impulse.

I have been going to shows since the 80's and have seen many changes in venues. Quite frankly it is getting old, and becoming alot of work going to a show once a month and sometimes two. Dont get me wrong, I love this business and most of the people in it, but we need to cut down on the amount of shows. It is not benefitting anyone except the promoters.

[FosterHerpetological]

True, but also many people have gotten into reptiles in that past few years just to try and become rich off of it. Very soon they will find out that this is not the case, and then they will get out of the industry and move on to their next big buck maker. And the ones that are left are the ones in it for the love of the hobby, and it will get back to normal.
At least I hope lol
Stephen

[Madd Season Morphs]

True, but also many people have gotten into reptiles in that past few years just to try and become rich off of it. Very soon they will find out that this is not the case, and then they will get out of the industry and move on to their next big buck maker. And the ones that are left are the ones in it for the love of the hobby, and it will get back to normal.
At least I hope lol
Stephen

I agree.. This Is first and foremost a Hobby, The ones thinking $$$$$$$$$$$$$ are the ones selling junk... and move on fairly quickly..

[Subdriven]

perfect... There are so many seeing the 1-50K $ prices on snakes that they think that if they could only make that snake they will be set for life.... the problem is so many are seeing the same thing, and so many have to sell the base morphs that comes out untill you can make that single one the seek!! So many people loved bumble bee's ( even me) and bought one and now are trying to make them.. making all pastels, spiders and bumble bee's almost worthless... now you see big hits on potions and many other mojave mixes since every has a mojave now... People that do not love the animals them selves and are willing to take a loss over and over again need to get out of it and quit ruining it for the rest... Hate to say it I'm not helping the problem my self, I started in the 2008 to 2009 season.. but I have loved ball's since the late 1990's and just now found my self in a postion where I can start to make my own and have some fun with my new animals.. I'm in it for a long time.. sell or not, I love my animals.. dogs, ferrets, ball's, guini pigs and rabbits... If it need to quit breeding then I will.. I will never sell my kept pets though!!!

[B&C Ball Pythons]

I'm just starting in building my initial breeding collection. I'm getting into this for my personal collection reasons. My unwanted hatchlings will simply be a means to trade or fund my collection :) I'm more of an educated hobbyist then a "breeder."

1.0 NERD Lemon Bumblebee
0.2 NERD Lemon Pastel
0.1 Mark Petros Lesser Platinum
0.1 Woma
0.1 Dinker
Another male tbd this next show in Portland. :)

[brd7666]

The market is not good right now, and to be honest, it's going to get worse. Between the economy, and the people over producing, dumping their animals at market crashing prices, prices will continue to go down. When the economy picks up again the prices on the animals will not go up, because people will expect to pay the low prices they have been seeing. If you want to breed snakes do it for fun, because if you are looking to make a business out of it, you will be very disappointed. The boa market is even worse then the ball market. When all the ball morphs started showing up, everyone and their mother jumped on the bandwagon. Now the market is saturated with animals that are not selling.

Most people don't know there will be some changes in the frozen rodent market. The price of frozen rodents will be going up before too long. The USDA, and the FDA will be making some changes in how things are done, and it will drive the price of all rodents up, and put the small rodent breeder out of business. Once this happens it will decrease your profits even more. Think about this, if your food bill double's, or close to it, what will that do to your bottom line? For an example, if you have 100 snakes, and it now cost's you 100 bucks a week to feed them (1 dollar a week per snake) and all of the sudden you are paying 200 bucks a week to feed those same animals, that's an increase of 5200 bucks a year. It's very hard to make that up when the price of snakes is plumiting. The numbers I used are low, but are for an example only.

Here is another thing people don't consider. There a quite a few of the big ball breeders who are currently selling a lot over seas. They are making money by doing that because the prices are higher over there. Here is the catch, when the people living over there, build up their breeding colonies they won't need to buy from the breeders over here, so the over seas market is going to dry up. When that happens, and it will, there will be a lot more animals on the market that won't be selling.

I have been around the reptile hobby/business for a long time. This is by far the worst it has ever been, and the worst is yet to come.

So what I am saying is, don't expect to get rich off of this, and do it for fun. If you do it for fun, and you are enjoying yourself, then that is all that matters.

[FosterHerpetological]

I agree with you byrd7666, you should get into this with the hooby and for fun in mind in the first place. If you can make a little money off of it, thats great, but most of it will be put back into your collection. Dont get into for the money, get into it for the animals, fun of breeding, and love of the hobby.
Stephen

[Nathan91]

I haven't been on Fauna that long and have even noticed myself drastic price drops for snakes, especially ball morphs. I have been keeping snakes since I was a little kid, and really the only reason I decided I wanted to start breeding was so that I could somehow convince my girlfriend that the animals I was buying would some day pay for themselves. In reality, I'm not expecting to get rich breeding, all I am really hoping for is that selling these snakes will be enough for the upkeep of my collection. I also have little personal goals, like trying to come up with new combos that have never been seen before, which is getting harder and harder to do, but a man can dream right?

[mikeyt]

I have to agree with Brian, this is the worst I have seen it as well, and I also believe its going to get worse before it gets better. The ball market is heavily saturated, especially with cheaper co-doms and even some recessives. Most of these animals are becoming the normals of tomorrow and there will no longer be a need for true normals in the market.

It was only a few years ago that people bought pastels and spiders to make the coveted Bumble bee, now it is almost cheaper to just buy the bee to start with. Which makes the pastels/spiders harder to sell and practically worthless on their own. And this happens with many other morphs in the ball market as well.

The only ones making money in this business are the big guys that are creating the new morphs and already have money to begin with, But dont be mis-led by some of the big guys, I know of some that are so far in debt and are just as hurting as the little guys. The economy and the market has affected everyone.

If and when the market does come aaround it will not come back as we once knew it years ago. It may bounce back and get stronger but the amount of people currently in and all the new comers that are bound to jump on the wagon will keep it from coming back to those days of years ago.

[irishanaconda]

my 2 cents, dont quit ur day job. do it for the fun like the posters b4 me say. With that being said i think u still can make enough money to support ur passion if ur into bps..... but listen to harald and dont buy crap and produce more crap, u will make crap money. Any one want to buy me a bananna ball python by chance?

[Subdriven]

If you find someone on theat bananna I'll take one too.. :)

[SIGNATURE DESIGN EXOTICS]

the reptile market like all markets will go up and down. and so what if there are allot of people joining the hobby. is it not there right? we all know that it is the ones who love to do this that will make it. i think america has become greedy! everyone thinks that if your not selling hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of snakes each year that its the end of the world. and i do understand that when you have lots of animals that don't move you are feeding them and such. and this adds to your stress. but maybe you should have only breed what you couldn't afford to sell. it's like gambling you shouldn't bring more then your willing to lose. i hear complaints about bee's being cheap but should we not be happy that everyone could now afford one? and the more kids and people that want to breed, will they not have to buy there snakes to start? so what if i sell a snake cheaper then you.maybe i just want anybody to be able to enjoy it as well.maybe i need cash now because something went wrong and if i go to cheap then i lose my shorts not yours. it sounds as if you would all like to monopolies the market. that no one should breed but you and if they do they better sell high. i got in to breeding because i love reptiles. i love the fact that you can take two great animals and create a whole new one. its the magic of it all. i don't plan on getting rich but i do believe that if you want it bad enough you will do what it takes to get it. so what if the market is flooded with spider bp then you as a breeder shouldn't produce them let the lil guy make his start on them let him work as hard as every one of us has had to. we should not put him down for this, but help. don't get me wrong i 'm not saying lets flood the market with bad genes or sick snakes. i just dont get where all the hate comes from. i always thought i was part of a community. one wich picks up its fallen comrades. not push's them to the ground. most people say they do it for love but at the same time cry about the guy who under sold him. if you really love the animal then who cares it's not about the money right? i understand that the market has changed but we as a community need to change with it. time (or the boi lol) will do all the weeding of scammers and the guy looking for the quick buck.
as long as we all stick together and grow are hobby then i don't see how it could go wrong.
what if reptiles were the new dog/cat? it's the people that do good biz. that are going to go on. the ones who stand by there animals and take pride in what they do. if anything i'm happy to see that the reptile world has taken a step up! we now have to start thinking like any other large business. no one wants to work for it anymore. they all want that quick buck or easy fix. sure it might be harder to start but it all boils down to what this country was really founded on competition,hard work and honor. not some a** just making money cause he got lucky.

p.s. i didn't write this to hurt feelings i just think everyone should have the right try and do what we have all come to live for!

thanks all

[Subdriven]

Agree, I never said I want everyone to stop so i could sell mine.. You never know when the next RDR or NERD will pop up! Just people thinking of getting into breading and asking if balls are even selling should get more sides to the story.. and I told mine.

[Focal]

It's far more acceptable and easier for someone to have a "snake mill" than a "puppy mill." Sorry if I am being a little abrasive, but a lot of people idolize these "big sellers" on here and they are nothing more than a snake mill. How many people on here have warehouses full of snakes? Wouldn't be the same if it was filled with dogs or cats. I believe this is part of the problem, not entirely but a good part. Don't blame this mess on the little guys that breed a few snakes in their house or every one that "wants to be a breeder." These are usually the people that will give you the best customer service and try the hardest to care for their animals because they are more than an investment, they are their pets.

[snowgyre]

Um, Bruce, I think you missed the boat a little bit. Nobody's hating on anyone in here, we're just expressing mutual frustration that we can't move any animals, at all. I think I speak for everyone here that nobody breeds beyond what they can care for, but at the same time, we would like to be able to sell the animals we do produce to at least break even with heating, feeding, and equipment costs.

It is the proverbial "little guy" driving down prices. If you look at big breeder websites, prices for most codoms are relatively stable. Yet you've got people popping up on free classifieds sections all over the net who are small breeders and just want to "get rid" of their animals at undercut prices. We saw what subprime loan rates did to the global economy, this is essentially the same thing.

Granted, we've already seen a tremendous drop in value in even difficult to get morphs in other species with faster maturation times and bigger clutch sizes. Look at boas, leopard geckos, and bearded dragons. I remember when enigma leopard geckos cost $2000 each, and now people are virtually giving them away! Perhaps what we're seeing is the same pattern, it's just that because ball pythons take longer to mature, have smaller clutch sizes, and are more finicky about breeding that the effect on the ball python market has been delayed.

Regardless of whether or not it was fate or a function of a bad economy of both, we're not angry with anyone. I just don't like seeing people popping into classified ads and immediately disregarding the price the seller has set and ask what kind of deal we can give them. I find it immensely disrespectful, and an indication that people don't want to pay what an animal is worth anymore.

[hhmoore]

Bruce, I think you may have misinterpreted some statements...but I don't disagree with too much of your post.
As far as Vanessa's remark about us "just expressing mutual frustration that we can't move any animals, at all." - Perhaps that is what some were doing...but my own statement was nothing more than a response to the comments I had seen.
All this talk about things getting better is naive, at best. Prices are not going to go up, and sales are not going to take off. Accept it. Prices were going to go down anyway, and they've been helped along by a number of factors. The only reason prices would go back up is if production were to STOP, then start again with serious limitations. I'm not suggesting that people try to manipulate the market, it wouldn't work anyway...there are too many players in the game. My point is simply that regardless of how anybody feels about it, this is how things are. There will always be buyers that care about nothing except the lowest price, and there will always be sellers to make them happy.
I may be the anomoly in this discussion because I do not focus on BPs....nor do I plan to. I doubt I will ever do more than 5 or 6 BP clutches in a given year...and I limit my total production to anywhere from 125-200 animals most years, depending on what I decide to breed. This year, I kept myself down to around 75 babies because I knew I was going to be moving...interestingly enough, I have sold just about all of the BPs I produced (I've got a few that I haven't advertised yet). I have one litter of boas that I haven't really done anything with - I was utterly disgusted to see people practically giving them away, and I couldn't bring myself to advertise them...especially when I would almost HAVE to do a tiered price scheme, and I KNOW that people would still be wanting the best animals for the price of the lower end. I was going to wholesale the majority of them, but I didn't get around to it. Now, I'm thinking I'll just hold onto them for a few more months...see what they look like towards spring. Eventually, I think tiered pricing will become more acceptable, perhaps even the norm...but there still aren't enough buyers willing to consider that a viable option yet. Before it can happen, people need to open their eyes to the fact that all examples of a morph are NOT equal....and that not all of them should be bred.

[SIGNATURE DESIGN EXOTICS]

Um, Bruce, I think you missed the boat a little bit. Nobody's hating on anyone in here, we're just expressing mutual frustration that we can't move any animals, at all. I think I speak for everyone here that nobody breeds beyond what they can care for, but at the same time, we would like to be able to sell the animals we do produce to at least break even with heating, feeding, and equipment costs.

~~~~~i think i hit the nail on the head. though i am glad that you have the sense to cut back and realize your limits. and i do understand that we all want to brake even in the end.

It is the proverbial "little guy" driving down prices. If you look at big breeder websites, prices for most codoms are relatively stable. Yet you've got people popping up on free classifieds sections all over the net who are small breeders and just want to "get rid" of their animals at undercut prices. We saw what subprime loan rates did to the global economy, this is essentially the same thing.

~~~~~~is this not what competion is all about? how else is someone going to compete with these large breeders? not everyone has tons of money to invest in the market. you have to sell low to get the attention off the big guys and on you. its like buying a nissan over a infinity there the same engine but you pay for the name. big breeders ten to keep there prices up because they know your buying the name not so much a better animal.

Granted, we've already seen a tremendous drop in value in even difficult to get morphs in other species with faster maturation times and bigger clutch sizes. Look at boas, leopard geckos, and bearded dragons. I remember when enigma leopard geckos cost $2000 each, and now people are virtually giving them away! Perhaps what we're seeing is the same pattern, it's just that because ball pythons take longer to mature, have smaller clutch sizes, and are more finicky about breeding that the effect on the ball python market has been delayed.

~~~~~i do agree that things are dropping faster then before.

Regardless of whether or not it was fate or a function of a bad economy of both, we're not angry with anyone. I just don't like seeing people popping into classified ads and immediately disregarding the price the seller has set and ask what kind of deal we can give them. I find it immensely disrespectful, and an indication that people don't want to pay what an animal is worth anymore.

why? is not getting the most for your buck a good thing? it's the same as looking for the best deal on anything. when you have work done on your house do you not call a list of contrators? as a ex painter i know that it is not always the price but how you treat someone. i got many of my jobs at the mid range. alot of people still believe that you get what you pay for. i dont see how looking for a deal is wrong. all you have to do is say no. and as far as what a animal is worth i always though a animal is only worth what someone is willing to pay. and in a bad ecom. like this. people just dont have the impulse to over pay. i feel the hurt like anyone else but all you can do is find a way to set yourself away from the pack.



sorry havent got the hang of the quote yet but theres more from me above~~~~

[SIGNATURE DESIGN EXOTICS]

Bruce, I think you may have misinterpreted some statements...but I don't disagree with too much of your post.
As far as Vanessa's remark about us "just expressing mutual frustration that we can't move any animals, at all." - Perhaps that is what some were doing...but my own statement was nothing more than a response to the comments I had seen.
All this talk about things getting better is naive, at best. Prices are not going to go up, and sales are not going to take off. Accept it. Prices were going to go down anyway, and they've been helped along by a number of factors. The only reason prices would go back up is if production were to STOP, then start again with serious limitations. I'm not suggesting that people try to manipulate the market, it wouldn't work anyway...there are too many players in the game. My point is simply that regardless of how anybody feels about it, this is how things are. There will always be buyers that care about nothing except the lowest price, and there will always be sellers to make them happy.
I may be the anomoly in this discussion because I do not focus on BPs....nor do I plan to. I doubt I will ever do more than 5 or 6 BP clutches in a given year...and I limit my total production to anywhere from 125-200 animals most years, depending on what I decide to breed. This year, I kept myself down to around 75 babies because I knew I was going to be moving...interestingly enough, I have sold just about all of the BPs I produced (I've got a few that I haven't advertised yet). I have one litter of boas that I haven't really done anything with - I was utterly disgusted to see people practically giving them away, and I couldn't bring myself to advertise them...especially when I would almost HAVE to do a tiered price scheme, and I KNOW that people would still be wanting the best animals for the price of the lower end. I was going to wholesale the majority of them, but I didn't get around to it. Now, I'm thinking I'll just hold onto them for a few more months...see what they look like towards spring. Eventually, I think tiered pricing will become more acceptable, perhaps even the norm...but there still aren't enough buyers willing to consider that a viable option yet. Before it can happen, people need to open their eyes to the fact that all examples of a morph are NOT equal....and that not all of them should be bred.

haralod i do agree that the market might have seen it's best days. but i think like any market its always great at the start then levels off. i also agree that that if the demand is lower then the supply it makes it harder for all of us. but think of what this coul do for the market. it will force us to push the limits harder then ever before. and who knows what crazy things might come of it? i just think that some people are just mad that they can't get filthy rich without a lil work and imagination. its not as easy as buy these two animals and your set. it takes more time but i feel the outcome will well worth it. any way its always good to hear what you have to say your truly love this hobby and it's great to see that.

[hhmoore]

Since a few people have taken offense to my comment about naive beliefs, I'm going to explain.
BP popularity skyrocketed with with the importation of a few morphs, and the discovery of what some slightly unusual BPs could do when bred together. When the only morphs out there were the ones being released by the people that possessed the originals, they controlled the market & pricing. They were in a position to get themselves a few generations ahead before they started selling babies...which is why they are typically the ones in the lead now. Today, however, the next hot morph isn't usually some unusual import that might end up in one (or a very select few) person's hands - it is a combination project that there are already at least a handful of people already working toward. In some cases, it is literally dozens of people (or more) racing to be the first to produce it. Since these combinations are made from things that growing numbers of people already have, there is a very limited period of time for capitalizing on the newness....and people are less likely to jump to spend the big dollars when they figure they can produce their own in a year or two with what they already have (or can get). Sure, some people will pop for a "5 gene powerhouse" to give their projects a substantial boost....but most of the people that are into it enough to consider spending $5000+ on a single snake are probably well on their way to producing it anyway; unless the looks of something they hadn't really given thought to just blows them away. The smaller guys are always going to be at least 3 steps away from the big guys; so, short of somebody lucking out on a dinking project, they're always going to be playing follow the leader and striving for what somebody else already has....and trying to beat the downslide of prices and the production of that same gem by the scores of other people that jumped in right when they did.

[Subdriven]

This became a heated thread!! I like.. and alot of things are coming out that I didn't think of either and many others are getting a good view on what is going on in everyones heads right now!! Love it!!

Oh.. and my family does dog breading and fights against puppy mills.. I am more on the reptiles side and feel the same way.. the differance I see between RDR and NERD and Sankes mills is they have alot of QUALITY animals and alsways havbe a good eye on the future or there own projects. Yes they may have TONS of snakes and bread alot, but look at what they come out with.. and they keep things interesting all the time!

[Subdriven]

Let me add... Look through this forum and others and look at the snakes people post as pickups..... then look at the for sale side..... BIG difference in quality!

[SIGNATURE DESIGN EXOTICS]

:iagree:Since a few people have taken offense to my comment about naive beliefs, I'm going to explain.
BP popularity skyrocketed with with the importation of a few morphs, and the discovery of what some slightly unusual BPs could do when bred together. When the only morphs out there were the ones being released by the people that possessed the originals, they controlled the market & pricing. They were in a position to get themselves a few generations ahead before they started selling babies...which is why they are typically the ones in the lead now. Today, however, the next hot morph isn't usually some unusual import that might end up in one (or a very select few) person's hands - it is a combination project that there are already at least a handful of people already working toward. In some cases, it is literally dozens of people (or more) racing to be the first to produce it. Since these combinations are made from things that growing numbers of people already have, there is a very limited period of time for capitalizing on the newness....and people are less likely to jump to spend the big dollars when they figure they can produce their own in a year or two with what they already have (or can get). Sure, some people will pop for a "5 gene powerhouse" to give their projects a substantial boost....but most of the people that are into it enough to consider spending $5000+ on a single snake are probably well on their way to producing it anyway; unless the looks of something they hadn't really given thought to just blows them away. The smaller guys are always going to be at least 3 steps away from the big guys; so, short of somebody lucking out on a dinking project, they're always going to be playing follow the leader and striving for what somebody else already has....and trying to beat the downslide of prices and the production of that same gem by the scores of other people that jumped in right when they did.

:iagree: thats what makes it so fun too. its the challenge i love.

[Snake4me2]

I feel that all true lovers of reptiles should be able to in time own or produce the animals they love and not have to pay 5000 to do so. If you truly do this hobby for the love of the animals then price or what you can make on them is secondary at best. I for one still pay more if the animal i want is gotta have special but i also like to give people that are less fortunate an opportunity to own animals they may think are out of their range. After all it the love of the species that should be the driving force behind doing this not your pocketbook.
Just my opinion

[David Reid]

If you want to sell your snakes, price them right, breed what others are not, and breed what people want. I sell out every year. I only produce around 50 Balls, but 40 plus were morphs. Stay small, and it might be a good idea to find a couple morphs you like, and specialize in Morph A and Morph B and combos using them.

Dave

[Papa Wyrm]

If you want to sell your snakes, price them right, breed what others are not, and breed what people want. I sell out every year. I only produce around 50 Balls, but 40 plus were morphs. Stay small, and it might be a good idea to find a couple morphs you like, and specialize in Morph A and Morph B and combos using them.

Dave

:iagree: Nice to hear someone with a business plan that is being well executed.

[Ntyvirus]

in response to the comment about there being to many shows, I'm not getting into breeding but i have a small collection of snakes that i enjoy and that i think stand out on some way or another. The amount of shows i believe is helping the hobby although it makes it harder on the individual sellers. I have a friend for example who was on the fence about buying a snake but wasn't sure. We had gone to several of the shows in Florida but he couldn't make up his mind. Longer story short we ended up buying a hognose at an Orlando show and gladly payed more for a snake that came from a reputable dealer that we both had seen before and after a check by me had received immaculate reviews on the BOI. At the same time though there were several tables where the sellers couldn't tell me what snake they were selling or the snakes were in sub-par condition. The shows bring out the best and the worst and as somebody had said earlier you just have to try to set yourself apart from the pack.

[SnakeGirl3]

If you want to sell your snakes, price them right, breed what others are not, and breed what people want. I sell out every year. I only produce around 50 Balls, but 40 plus were morphs. Stay small, and it might be a good idea to find a couple morphs you like, and specialize in Morph A and Morph B and combos using them.

Dave

Agreed. ;) That's what I'm already doing myself. I have produced nothing like 50 balls a year (I usually have one or two clutches), but I have narrowed down my morphs, mainly for space issues. I'm not a huge fan of racks--I prefer stackables, so obviously, not as many of those will fit in the same space that a rack would. But it has limited me to keeping and working with the morphs that I prefer myself.

And the animals I now have (less one--still planning to get a high-quality butter) are the morphs and the combos I want to work with. I don't have a mojave because everyone else has them and I prefer the lessers/butters anyway. Yeah, mystic potions are kinda cool and all, but overall I like more of the the butter/lesser combos--I much prefer a lesserbee to a mojave spider. I also belive in quality animals--when I bought my pastel this year (very late in the morph game for me), I knew I wanted an adult so that I could see how it held its color as an adult. And I believe I found one that is rather exceptional. But since everyone has a pastel, there is only one normal female in my collection that I will breed him to, because she is lighter than average and will hopefully produce some quality pastels rather than the dirty, browned-out pastels that have flooded the market (especially in my own area). Of course, those who buy the cheapest pastels just to say they have them, and then turn around and breed them only to produce dirty, cheap offspring, only drive the prices down for those who are trying to breed quality. Why pay higher for a nice morph when you can get this ugly one for cheap? Then you too can breed it, produce more ugly ones, and sell those for cheap. This hobby used to be about selective breeding, but it's becoming more and more "popular" breeding from people just trying to make a quick buck. They breed as many as they can as fast as they can and don't care about quality anymore. :(

[sloanreptiles]

If you want to sell your snakes, price them right, breed what others are not, and breed what people want. I sell out every year. I only produce around 50 Balls, but 40 plus were morphs. Stay small, and it might be a good idea to find a couple morphs you like, and specialize in Morph A and Morph B and combos using them.

Dave
We are the same way, we sell out every year with 200+ babies. Ranging from $25-$8000. Usually the higher dollar animals will go first!! We didn't have a problem selling anything this year, except Normals! ;)

[Dbz4246]

I know this is an older post, but I will put in my 2 cents. I am new to ball python breeding, but I still have purchased the best ball morphs that I could find. As for the price, I really dont base my purchase on that as much as the quality of the animal (as long as they are willing to do a payment plan;)). And I can tell you that if you have good customer service and actually care to talk, and answer your costumers questions, you will sell. I have bought from some of the bigger breeders and have gone back because of the great communication they had. As for breeding goes, (like any beginner) I have to start out with the lower morphs before I get into the higher morphs. But I am mostly doing this so that I can produce the snakes I want, I am keeping my collection low, and may end up selling a good portion of it whenever I can get the bigger morphs I want and specialize in a certain area. Thats just me though :D

[snakesRkewl]

If you want to sell your snakes, price them right, breed what others are not, and breed what people want. I sell out every year. I only produce around 50 Balls, but 40 plus were morphs. Stay small, and it might be a good idea to find a couple morphs you like, and specialize in Morph A and Morph B and combos using them.

DaveCouldn't have said it better, quality snakes and good customer service and selectively breeding stuff that 10,000 other people aren't producing will put you in a good position to sell what you make.

[Cristie]

here at Medusa Reptiles (Cristie and Marc) marc has been breeding reptiles for 22 yrs and has seen the market have its ups and downs. We breed the reptiles we like and go from there if your out to breed for $$$$$ you could be disappointed couse the time you buy a 1500.00 animal and take the time to grow it up to breeder age the price COULD drop pretty quick. We do the old stand by as in corn,kings,milks,beardeds,leopards and a few monitors but we have a few high end animals aswell that we do becouse we like them.

Medusa Reptiles
Winfield, Ks

[GreenCountryHerp]

Good customer service and good feed back from customers is the most important thing in selling anything. Word of mouth works!!!!!!!