Fred kick??? I need some help please!

[scarnicom]

So I am totally up in the air with this guy. I am so very tempted to buy some unbeatable priced hets that he has for sale, but I'm getting nothing but mixed signals from this guy, as am also hearing but good and bad.
I'm inquiring mostly on the part of him being trustworthy as he guarantees the genetics of his animals, after beating around the bush and avoiding my question several times, I finally get
" yes guaranteed 100% they were produced at my facility."
Which after the two or three times it took him to answer me threw up a red flag.
I am just looking for some information on him, some good advice from someone who delt with him or jus anybody with any useful information please! I thank you for your help and time for reading:)

[Southern Wolf]

so stick with your gut and look elsewhere. If red flags were thrown up... then dont try to override them. It's not worth it.

[gixxer3420]

Stick with your gut feeling.

[RJK890]

Fred Kick has been around for quite some time now.
There should be several people that have bought hets from him in the past that have proven out, one way or the other.
I would try to find those replies later in this thread, and of course consider any other feedback from people that have had previous transactions with him before deciding to purchase from him or not.

You are probably going to get many replies like the second and third post in this thread already, and I would not base my decision on them.
(No offense meant to the two members that posted those replies.)

[TheDream]

In all honesty, if you can't find a breeder who will take the time to fully address your questions and take the time to provide you with a detailed answer, then I would say look elsewhere.

A good breeder takes the time to address a customer, it also shows character and gives you confidence that the breeder puts forth the effort, knowledge and care needed to properly care for snakes.

[farfrumugen]

i own a black pastel female and a spider female from fred kick. both were healthy and eating great right from the start. last time i was in the retail store was about 2 years ago and all looked good except for a few cages that were dirty. i myself would buy hets from him as long as paperwork is provided(with photo). no paperwork no purchase
adam jeffery

[Focal]

From what I have learned from here, if they are gonna give you a hard time before you buy, imagine the service after you buy. This might not be the case, but I would kick my self in the butt up and down the road if those flags went off and I bought and got screwed. Some times the extra money is worth the piece of mind.

[David Reid]

They are on my "Do not buy from list" for various reasons. Do your research, and then buy from one of the good guys out there. Keep the good guys in business! Each dime you send to suspect breeders or sellers, keeps them in business longer. We should want to keep the good guys in business, not the suspect sellers.

Dave

[chongorojo]

They are on my "Do not buy from list" for various reasons. Do your research, and then buy from one of the good guys out there. Keep the good guys in business! Each dime you send to suspect breeders or sellers, keeps them in business longer. We should want to keep the good guys in business, not the suspect sellers.

Dave

:iagree: run away as fast as your fingers can type..

[bullies&balls]

All I can say is that we see them every month. Some of their animals look incredible others not so much. I got my son a baby boa from them last year at a show. It regurg and had mites. Said something to him at the next show nad he totally blew me off. All I can tell you is that we were doing this way before he was into any ball morphs and really not a heck of a lot has changed. IMO

[crookedantler]

I bough a mojave from him,the customer service was horrible,but the snake is wonderful! It came when he said it would and eats f/t everytime offered.It just takes him forever to answer e-mails if he even responds.I would probably buy a het from him if paperwork were provided.

[mqbuchanan]

I have bought a couple snakes from him and done a few trades and never had a problem.

[brock lesser]

When I search the B.O.I looking for breeders I can trust, I exclude anyone with negative threads, it cuts down my options but I can buy quality animals from quality people.

[JCCS]

I wouldn't automatically write someone because they have a negative thread here. I've been reading the BOI for quite a few years and about 25% of the time, it was a misunderstanding, the op wasn't complying with the terms of service, or the OP was just trying to cause problems. Things happen, but when a negative post comes out to be positive, it makes me more confident in that seller than a straight up positive post would.

In this case, there are enough people saying that they have had either customer service or health issues with their purchases with no defense from the seller to make me not want to purchase anything from them.

Chris

[David Reid]

Any seller who sends mites, whether or not it was on purpose or not, is off my list. Mites are not ok to send. It is a slap in the face to the buyer.

Dave

[BigTattoo]

When I search the B.O.I looking for breeders I can trust, I exclude anyone with negative threads, it cuts down my options but I can buy quality animals from quality people.

I can understand a not buying from a dealer that has a negative thread that proves out to be a negative.

Just recently a dealer/breeder that enjoys a very good reputation had a negative thread posted over a shipping mixup which ultimately the dealer made good and the OP ended up looking like the bad guy. It's a dealer I've often considered getting stock from and still would as this negative thread just proved they are really good guys.

The OP of that thread though I wouldn't sell a rubber snake too.

[Southern Wolf]

Fred Kick has been around for quite some time now.
There should be several people that have bought hets from him in the past that have proven out, one way or the other.
I would try to find those replies later in this thread, and of course consider any other feedback from people that have had previous transactions with him before deciding to purchase from him or not.

You are probably going to get many replies like the second and third post in this thread already, and I would not base my decision on them.
(No offense meant to the two members that posted those replies.)

No offense taken..... but I have found that if I follow my gut feelings.... I never get shafted due to second guessing the situation. If red flags are raised... then something is amis. Normally those are attributed to dishonesty or something just not adding up.

Why would you really want to take the chance.

[chongorojo]

Trust your gut! leave the gambling in vegas and go with a known good guy!

[RJK890]

No offense taken..... but I have found that if I follow my gut feelings.... I never get shafted due to second guessing the situation. If red flags are raised... then something is amis. Normally those are attributed to dishonesty or something just not adding up.

Why would you really want to take the chance.
I would not take the chance myself.
There are very few people that I would purchase hets from, ever.
(In fact, I can count them on one hand and have fingers left over.)

When dealing with anybody that I do not know personally, or have never done business with, I am always skeptical.
Even then, with hets it's two or three years of not being sure in most cases.

Everyone can have a warm fuzzy feeling about a seller, and have no red flags raised for years.
And then... Look at the TSE scam, and the current problem with hets from an industry leader not proving out.

At the same time, a seller may not be well known, or even liked by most of the online community(ies) for any given reason. Leaving the majority of post's in a thread like this to read something like, "run away," or "follow your gut feeling," which may, or may not be great advice.

I would just rather base my decision to make a purchase or not, on facts and actual customer feedback, then on the majority vote or gut feelings (mine or yours.)

Obviously there is now some negative feedback posted about the seller inquired about in this thread, from previous customers who received animals with mites, and other health problems, with no or bad customer service to go with it.

Does that mean that he sells false hets ??? Not necessarily.
Maybe he is an honest guy with poor TOS, and customer service, but good prices ???
You may be just as safe purchasing hets from him as you are purchasing visual morphs.

Would I, No.
Should you, ? IDK ?

[Matt2979]

No offense taken..... but I have found that if I follow my gut feelings.... I never get shafted due to second guessing the situation. If red flags are raised... then something is amis. Normally those are attributed to dishonesty or something just not adding up.

Why would you really want to take the chance.


Trust your gut! leave the gambling in vegas and go with a known good guy!

AMEN!!! I might miss out some deals now and then, but this logic has yet to let me get burned in any deals gone bad!

[JeffreH]

I've never purchased a het from Fred Kick, and frankly I'd be in the same boat as the majority of the others here even after the relatively good transaction that I did have with him. If he beat around the bush and couldn't provide an honest answer immediately, that would raise a red flag for me as well.

I purchased a beautiful female Pastave last year from Fred - it was too cold to ship and he maintained constant contact with me about her as I had already made a down payment. We ultimately arranged that his brother would deliver the snake to the All-Ohio show for pick up. I was very impressed with this snake, she was gorgeous, fed brilliantly, absolutely no problems. Furthermore, contact was maintained until the snake was sold and I was impressed with how willing Fred was to work with me and keep in touch.

I've had similar show experiences with the Kicks, it seems like half of the animals are a little sketchy and others are flawless. I feel like anyone has the capacity to change their ways and do good, or even go from good to bad. It wasn't until after I had purchased this animal that I read into the Kick's reputation - I was honestly a little surprised after my purchase to have read some of the bad things, but perhaps my experience was an oddball...or maybe they opt to be more available to big spenders (opinion).

Regardless: If a breeder is unwilling to stand behind their het readily, or will not provide paperwork and a gurantee (not saying he didn't do this) then I would avoid it - even if I had a relatively pleasant experience with them in the past. Gut feeling FTW, I'm not going to put my money into hets from someone if it took 2-3 attempts just to get them to commit to a gurantee.

[RJK890]

Original Inquiry:
So I am totally up in the air with this guy. I am so very tempted to buy some unbeatable priced hets that he has for sale, but I'm getting nothing but mixed signals from this guy, as am also hearing but good and bad.
I'm inquiring mostly on the part of him being trustworthy as he guarantees the genetics of his animals, after beating around the bush and avoiding my question several times, I finally get
" yes guaranteed 100% they were produced at my facility."
Which after the two or three times it took him to answer me threw up a red flag.
I am just looking for some information on him, some good advice from someone who delt with him or jus anybody with any useful information please! I thank you for your help and time for reading
Stephen, could you clarify a few things that may be a little bit confusing.

So I am totally up in the air with this guy. I am so very tempted to buy some unbeatable priced hets that he has for sale, but I'm getting nothing but mixed signals from this guy, as am also hearing but good and bad.
Is the underlined sentence, "as I am also hearing both good and bad," or "and I am also hearing both good and bad."
(Not to over criticize grammar, but little things like that can be confusing if you were communicating via email.)
Does that mean that you were hearing both good and bad feedback on this seller prior to you posting this thread ?
Is that where the mixed signals are coming from, or from your communication with Fred himself ?

I'm inquiring mostly on the part of him being trustworthy as he guarantees the genetics of his animals, after beating around the bush and avoiding my question several times, I finally get
Maybe it was not so much that he was beating around the bush and avoiding your question, but that he did not understand exactly what your question was ?

Is it possible that he was unsure if you were asking if he had produced the animals and could guarantee that they were 100% hets and not Poss. hets, or if he were reselling them and would personally guarantee that they were 100% hets and not Poss. hets, or even if he had a TOS guarantee on the genetics of his animals one way or the other ?

I ask because, after you had asked him your question several times, his reply was finally...
" yes guaranteed 100% they were produced at my facility."
Now is that:
(Oh,) Yes, Guaranteed, 100% het (meaning 100%hets and not Poss. hets,) they were produced here at my facility.
or:
(Oh,) Yes, Guaranteed 100% (meaning fully guaranteed to true hets, or else... TOS,) they were produced here at my facility.

It may seem like splitting hairs, but it could be the difference between him beating around the bush and avoiding your question, and him simply not understanding the question being asked.

Which after the two or three times it took him to answer me threw up a red flag. Were you communicating by email, or on the telephone?

If you sent two or three emails before he responded, it could be that you were more excited about the transaction then he was, or maybe that you have more time to spend on the internet then he does.

If it were over the telephone, Again, it could still be that he did not understand exactly what you were asking, or he may have even been preoccupied while on the phone with you?
(maybe even fielding other email inquiries... lol.)

(I am not defending FK here, and have already stated that I am very skeptical when it comes to hets and would not purchase hets from him myself.
I just don't think that he should be tarred and feathered in this thread, at this point.)

[brock lesser]

I'm not talking about simple misunderstandings that are cleared up before the end of the thread thats not really a negative thread in my opinion. I'm saying when one of the partys clearly breaks the agreement and doesn't attempt to rectify the problem. thats what I was trying to say, I should have been more specific about how I look at the posts on the B.O.I

[Serpent Syndicate]

Stay as far away from him as possible. I had a deal that went sour and he never repaid for the loss of a snake I purchased from him.

[scarnicom]

@RJK890
I'm not quite sure on how to do it the nice fancy way that others post emails convorsations on here, but i can quote the actual "beating around the bush"lol. Here goes...Oh and if proof be necessary I can email the actual conversations. And again for everyone out here, I'm just gathering information, not here to judge immediately.

And I was hearing good and bad about him prior to this thread, and Also what I consider mixed signals, being very short with me and coming off as just pushy, quick, and not very considerate. Thank you for pointing those things out because they could be key understanding points.

saw his ad on kingsnake.com (sorry fauna) and replied...



Hey fred, what kind of shipped deal price could you do on ...

Het pied female
Het genetic stripe female
and pastel het genetic stripe male

Also are genetics guaranteed? Paperwork available? Thank you stephen


Freds reply

I could do 380 plus shipping. I need your zip code to figure out a shipping quote.


my reply

43420 is my zip code. Fremont, Ohio

Fred's reply

shipping would be 35. so I could sell all three snakes for 415 shipped to your door

My reply

Ok sounds great but I can't be sold without a genetics guarntee. Photo I'd or some sort of paperwork.

Freds reply

They come with clutch records

my reply

ok but do you guarantee the genetics?

Fred's reply

They are all guarnteed 100% hets that were produced at my facility.

END CONVERSATION.

I literally retyped the whole conversation.

[MikeCurtin]

While I'm not a big fan of Mr. Kick's reputation, I really don't see any red flags there. Your primary question was with regards to price. In his first response, he was just getting back to you to know what kind of info he needed as a seller. When you reminded him of the genetics question, he answered with the term "clutch records", which would imply that all pertinent information would be included, such as the parents, and their genetics. I don't think he was being intentionally deceptive or elusive.

[alex bleas]

Fred kick has great prices and lots of cool reptiles. If you buying a snake for less then half of what a breeder would charge its yor job to check it out befor buying. I can go to a table where colored atb adults are 200 bucks or pay the kicks 80 bucks.

[bullies&balls]

LOL because the animals just came off a boat !! Prices are NOT far below other more reputable breeders IMO. Maybe if you're in the know with them, you are safer in your dealings, but in my experience seervice after the sale is/was non-existent.

[Matt2979]

Stay as far away from him as possible. I had a deal that went sour and he never repaid for the loss of a snake I purchased from him.

Can you elaborate on your deal? How long after you received the snake did it die? Any e-mails to back it up? I'm not attacking you for bringing this info here, but just asking for validity in your claim.

[Riserax]

I've had a few that I've wanted to purchase from that would be slow to responding, or respond late with one word replies. I have never gone through with a purchase from any of them. If you get a bad vibe, follow your heart and turn the other way. :)

[Rosy Boas]

I have my own story but this guy puts aside the fact that reptiles are living creatures. Evryone needs to make money but his style is awful. Stands behind nothing he sells. Has at least 3 names that he works under (I wonder why). Just google his neame or reptile addicts , his store has been paid a visit more than once for being dirty. If this guy tried to change around I woulnt feel the need to chim in but the fact is he hasnt. Good Luck.. Mites are hard to get ride of and he specializes in them

[scarnicom]

Thanks for everyones in put and information, and as many have said to do, I'm just sticking with my gut feeling! Hope everyone has a Happy New Year!

[Nigel_Moses]

I have my own reasons to never purchase a thing from him that started back 12 years ago, complete scumbag. But you can also simply see for your self, they own Pets Plus in Lockport, N.Y. The reptiles are kept in horrendous conditions and it has been raided by the SPCA. Any time I had gone to his store in the past I left infuriated with how bad the animals were kept. It's good to go with your gut instincts because they are right on, Never Trust This Man!

[lillyorchid]

If something doesn't feel "right", then it probably isn't. Listen to your gut feeling, since most of the time it won't lead you wrong. A het is only as good as the breeder who produced it. If the breeder has been known to be "shady" in the past, who has had problems with their snakes/animals.... then I would avoid buy a het from them at all cost. Not worth the risk at all. Buy from someone who has a stellar reputation in the herp community along with a stellar collection of snakes, you can't go wrong. You get what you pay for, always remember that. If you look for cheap, you are going to get cheap. I would rather spend the extra money and know that I am going to get a healthy, well bred snake that is of the genetics that the breeder is claiming it it.

[ALDABRAMAN]

In all honesty, if you can't find a breeder who will take the time to fully address your questions and take the time to provide you with a detailed answer, then I would say look elsewhere.

A good breeder takes the time to address a customer, it also shows character and gives you confidence that the breeder puts forth the effort, knowledge and care needed to properly care for snakes.

I SO AGREE!

[SamanthaJane13]

At the time Pets Plus/Reptile Addicts was raided by the SPCA, I was volunteering with a local herp rescue/educational center, and the head of the rescue was called in on-site by the SPCA to help identify some of the animals and set up proper care for the animals confiscated.

He was damned near in tears from seeing the conditions some of the animals were in.

And I saw pictures that made ME cry.

I think this speaks volumes, and I'd never purchase from Kick/Pets Plus/Reptile Addicts.

By purchasing from people with poor husbandry, you're letting them know that the way they treat animals is okay by you.

They sell you an animal, and they have an open tank, so they get MORE animals in.

More animals who suffer at the hands of a bad keeper/shop owner/breeder.

You are condoning the bad husbandry/suffering of the animals when you purchase from them.

You are condoning animal abuse.

[gofrwrd]

I second David. If they are not a reputable breeder or someone you know and trust personally,stay away. Spend the extra cash and KNOW what you are getting.

When in doubt, leave it out.

[JLucas]

be safe buy the hets with a photo id with his signature