***RAT BREEDING INFO NEEDED***

[mizztaztic7]

So i'v been thinking about breeding feeders to save money like everyone else and I've found some good information online about it. I was just wondering if anyone could give some tips about choice of bedding (what should and should not be used), ways to help alleviate the smell of the rodents (as I have to keep them in my house and have roommates who are worried about it) and overall what is the most cost effective way to feed them that will also be benificial to their health. So let me know guys, I appreciate it greatly.

[scaledverts]

So i'v been thinking about breeding feeders to save money like everyone else and I've found some good information online about it. I was just wondering if anyone could give some tips about choice of bedding (what should and should not be used), ways to help alleviate the smell of the rodents (as I have to keep them in my house and have roommates who are worried about it) and overall what is the most cost effective way to feed them that will also be benificial to their health. So let me know guys, I appreciate it greatly.

Hey Michael -

A couple quick things to keep in mind about raising your own feeders. I don't know how many snakes you have or are planning to feed out of the colony, but it takes take quite a few snakes to make the costs even out or go in your favor. In other words if you only have a few snakes, say 10-15, and are not going to be producing babies then it really doesn't make much sense raising your own rodents. And secondly, the exact costs will depend on your local market. When I used to live in Tampa I could get bedding and food for ~1/2 the cost that I pay for it now in PA. So keep those things in mind before you decide to breed your own rodents.

There any many different opinions regarding the type of bedding to use. It comes down to how much time you have to devote to them and how much smell you, or your roommates, can deal with. Also the more rodents you have in each cage, the better the breeding will be (to a point). However, more rodents = more frequent cage changes.

The easiest, and typically cheapest, bedding is aspen. However, it does not absorb odors very much at all and you will have to change more often. Whatever you use don't use CEDAR, 1) it can cause resp. problems in your rodents, and 2) can be toxic to snakes (so I don't want the feeders to potentially be toxic to the snake).

Another option is pelleted paper or wood. You can usually find this at most feed stores and even PET-CO (although it is more here). This is the option that I prefer to use as it absorbs the waste quite well and holds the smell down fairly well. With this bedding I have been able to lower the frequency of changing the cages to about every 1-2 weeks. This is with a fair number of rodents in each cage. I also give them a little bit of aspen shavings so they can build nests for the babies.

In terms of food: the cheapest and best food is rodent block. There are a number of brands out there and you should be able to find some at your local reptile show or maybe even your local feed store (if you have one close, this worked for me in FL but not here :(). Some people use dog food with good success. However, I found that with my colony the mice and rats got very oily coats when I gave them dog food because of the higher fat content in the food. Because of this I personally would not recommend dog food unless you need to fill a gap between rodent food coming in.

Another thing that really helped me reduce the smell is to put the colony under/in front of a window and put a window fan in blowing outside. This SIGNIFICANTLY reduced the smell and dust in the rodent room. Also, if you have a balcony you can put them there as long as the temps are not too cold. I had my colony outside in FL during winter and spring and they were just fine with the temps dropping into the low 40s upper 30s. I just gave them more shavings and some shredded newspaper for nest building and they did ok.

That is how I keep my rodents and it works out well for me. You will find TONS of opinions about how best to keep rodents. Really what it comes down to is you try different things until you find what works best for your particular situation and wallet.

Good luck,

[mizztaztic7]

Thank you so much, I appreciate it. What is the name of the lab block you use? I currently have 10 snakes, but will be breeding in the fall and the pet stores and ordering frozen online are killing me. $5 for a small rat...ridiculous. Even with the frozen online discount you still end up paying a ton in shipping. Plus I have a some picky eaters who simply will not switch over to f/t. I've tried everything, plus I think it would be kind of cool to breed them haha.

[scaledverts]

I have gone back and forth between, Mazuri Rodent Block, Native Earth (Harlan), and a few other misc brands. I prefer Native Earth. Mazuri is a bit too sweet for me (they use molasses in the mix)

[GreenCountryHerp]

I use Mazuri 6f rodent feed. Most feed stores that carry Mazuri products will order it for you. It is a quality feed and cheaper than the others. It runs me about $25 for a 50 lb. bag. I use pine bedding, I get it at a place called Atwoods. A large bag is only $5 and has worked well for me. It also has a very woody smell to it, unlike aspen which doesn't have much of a scent to it. The woody smell helps to cover up the rodent smell. I change bedding once a week and this keeps the odor down. Another way to reduce odor is to have less males, their urine is the one that smells the worst.

[mizztaztic7]

Thank you very much

[GreenCountryHerp]

:thumbsup:no problem hope it helps:D

[Focal]

I also use pine and love it. It's the best odor retardant in my opinion. With that said, you will find several people that tell you its dangerous to rats and you might even find a couple articles online with no real proof, of course lack of proof doesn't mean it's not true. I've used it for about a year now with no ill side effects. If given the option, I would go with a coarser cut since the dust is suppose to be a problem. I got some nice coarse pine from petco once but I have switched over to something that ended up being a little finer but cheaper from walmart. I have been through three bags with no harm.

I use Native Earth rat pellets with a splash of Avoderm dog food for their coat. I have tried dog food, rat block and a mix and have never noticed a difference in odor, litter size/weight, or health. Granted, I have not recorded overall life span or asked my snakes opinion. Some rats prefer just the dog food if given the option and some prefer the block.

If you would like the schematics, I built a cabinet that does a great job at keeping the smell contained. I keep my rat cabinet about 15 ft away from my living room and no one ever believes I have 20-30 rats in the next room. I also keep the cabinet right next to my boamasters and the snakes don't even seem to notice. Of course I change the litter religiously. Mated with a good ventilation duct, and this set up would be perfect for me.

[Focal]

Here's the link for the cabinet. Probably not the best DIY instructions, but a good start. Let me know if you give it a try.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219727

[Pmsayi]

I've found it's more economical to buy frozen feeders than it is to raise your own. The cost of supplies (bedding, feed, tubing, replacement bins, etc.) and gas (to euthanize) can get pricey. When I did breed my own I used Carefresh bedding. That is probably the best you will find for keeping odor down. I cleaned the cages 3 times a week none the less. I did this to avoid potential bacterial infections to both the rodents and the snakes. It may be worth noting for you that feeders kept in less than hygienic conditions can lead to bacterial infections in reptiles such as mouth rot and respiratory infections. For feed Mazuri rodent chow works well and I also offered mixed seeds and grains. I just bought large bags of wild bird seed and mixed it together but you can get it formulated for rodents. I also gave them liquid vitamins once a week. The better you feed your feeders the better you are feeding your snakes.

As far as pine shavings I avoided it due to the fact that reptiles are sensitive to pine oils and the phenols produced by pine. I also have been told by people who breed rodents that they have noticed increased numbers of respiratory infections in their colonies when using pine. Whatever you do, remember that, even though you are breeding them for use as feeders, you are ethically bound to provide them with a clean and safe environment and that they should not be allowed to suffer needlessly.

[mizztaztic7]

Thank you all...such great information

[Mile_High_Dragons]

I use shredded pine that is the consistency of fluffy saw dust. I bought a big bag at walmart for $6.59 and I like it because:

1-It's cheap
2-It's super compressed (More bang for your buck!)
3-It really keeps the smell down
4-Little to no dust
5-It's easy to scoop out and replace
6-Keeps odor down for a long time

Now when it comes to food, Rats need a lot of protein unlike other rodents which it can be bad for. I feed my rats standard dog food.

Why?...

It has a very high protein content. (Average 17%-19%) Now, I have only had my rats for about a month. But I bought them from my local reptile shop as small/skinny rat pups. And now, about a month later they are now at what would be considered Large size.
I just switched last week to the "Puppy" dog food which has an even higher protein content (29% minimum) And I have already started to see more rapid growth.

Overall I have seen awesome growth rates with dog food and I currently have 8 rats. Which honestly only cost me about $5 a month to upkeep. (Including bedding) And I buy the small 5lb bags of dog food for about 4 or 5 buck which lasts me almost a month so, if you buy the 50lb bag for about $15 it'll last you FOREVER! (Figuratively speaking) lol

I personally think its worth it even if you have a small collection. (Beats paying $5-$8 per rat!)

Good luck dude! And let me know how it goes!

Zack

[psychoprimate84]

I use Mazuri 6F that comes in a 50 lb bag, veggies and fruit, and Aspen bedding because thats what I use for my snakes (except for the rainbow boas). I have 10 snakes and have 12 breeder rats. Unlike mice, rats really do not smell as long as the bedding is changed about once a week or so. You can make it last a little longer by adding some paper/fiber pellet bedding to the wood bedding. My rats are healthy and produce 7 to 11 babies per litter almost every 3 weeks. Mommas stay chubby after giving birth and babies grow fast. The best part about breeding your own feeders is you know how well kept they are and know exactly what is going into them. Plus I give the rats attention, including the babies, so that they are great pets as well as a food source to my slithering babies. I guess it could be more difficult to get personal with the animals that provide or will be food for your other animals, but to me its about putting lots of love into it.

[HeatherN]

i was looking into breeding rats myself, just a small colony, is it true they can be kept in the tanks (10-20 gallon, etc) without being overweight, cramped, or even just mean little things?

[Focal]

i was looking into breeding rats myself, just a small colony, is it true they can be kept in the tanks (10-20 gallon, etc) without being overweight, cramped, or even just mean little things?


Here is a rat rack I built using 10 gallon tanks (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219727). My rats aren't overweight or mean, but honestly, I don't think they are really cramped. They liked to try and escape when they were younger if given the chance, but now, they don't really seem to care being in there. If you keep their litter clean and keep them fed, they are pretty happy.

[HeatherN]

thanks so much! great looking rack by the way, rat breeding rack that is ;)

[rjarosek]

I also use pine and love it.

We raise fancy rats as pets and some feeders. I have personally seen pine cause problems with some of them. They get congestion and breathing problems like they do with ceder. Ceder is by far worse but I have actually seen the problem with pine. It is not as far spread but is there.

[DNA Dragons]

I raised rats commercially and can tell you I've seen respiratory infections with Aspen shavings the same. Not sure how its not cost effective to raise your own feeders over buying from a petstore.

Cage $20
Lid $15
Rats (1.3 @ $5 ea) $20
Bottle (walmart) $2
Pine/Aspen (huge bundle) $15
Mazuri breeder $15-25

25-50 rats a month, food and pine for many more, paid for itself the first month.

[mizztaztic7]

Even if you have a small collection I think it would be cost effective because you can freeze off your overflow at the correct sizes you need. Thankfully most of mine take frozen/thawed. For those that don't I have to feed live or euthanize them using a chamber I made. The link is below.

[DiabloGeckos]

Skipped ahead to post my own personal breeding advice from experience.

I bred FANCY rats. Tailless Pandas and Tailless Black Eyed Ivories (sold em up to $300 a pop)
They were cute lol

BEDDING: I used aspen as it does not affect the ratties which are prone to upper respirory infections. Hate to say but 8 out of 10 rats have it. You can quaratine the animals and carefully choose the breeders.

FOOD Its a personal preference. I really liked how my rats were healthy, long lived, good breeders, nearly odor free(thanks to their diet), clean coats that did not produce dander. It was nice. I had 40 and no one could even smell them! LOL
Here is a link to what I actually used many years ago (10 years ago)
The block diet made their poop STINK and they pooped ALOT ugh.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Homemade-Rat-Diets

BREEDING I waited until my females were close to a year old, (9 months at the youngest but they were big). Why? Bigger, healthier litters. Less strain on the girls. Just like any other animal out there. Let em be "kids" until theyre all grown up! :D
I had 4 males at the most and they lived together in a group. The girls lived together as well. When it was time to be bred, I put the girl(s) with the male of choice in a new cage for a day. Sometimes up to a week. Then I remove em. WHY?? The boys, just like any man out there. Constantly harass the girls into mating. The girls only need to be mated one time and mate her again once her litters weaned and shes recovered.
Again, bigger litters :yesnod::D

You notice I keep saying bigger litters. Just how many did mine have. Well, they averaged anywhere from 18-24 pups per litter.
:thumbsup:

The time and effort put into them was well spent IMO
My rats were very friendly, they didnt attack when they became "culled" (fed off to a snake).
Do research on fancy rat keeping, just my personal preference.
Mine were pets and feeders and they made enough babies to the point where i sold the babies for a nice profit.

GOOD LUCK
PM if you got questions :)

[DiabloGeckos]

Oops I forgot an important note
due to upper resp. infections I fed the rats oranges, lots of oranges. The vitamin c helped them alot.
The aspen I bought years ago virtually had no dust but am hearing differently :(