Enclosuresbydesign.com

[vferra7777]

If anyone has ever delt with them or "Upstate Exotics" could you please E-MAIL me ASAP. I ordered (2) 12 units from them. Everything seems to be going normally, but I usually get a bit worried whenevr I spend $1200 or so. My e-mail is:
<p>
E-MAIL (vferra7777@cs.com)
<p>
Thanx to all as usual, Vinny Ferraiolo "Off The Ark Exotic Pets" in Virginia.

[The BoidSmith]

Vinny,

Click on the "Search" tab that's on the opening page of the BOI. Type Upstate in the box grab a cup of coffee (no caffeine preferred ;) ) and hit enter.

Regards

[JungleHabitats]

Well hope it comes out ok ... but i would say you might have good reasons to be worried ESP with $1200 on the line there is a search button but be prepaired to get a knot in your stomach when you get the results.... there was just a fiasco with them and another member here a few weeks ago. they ended up getting the money back but was severly strung along in the process. hope this turns out well for you but theres a urge it may go south. just from past expereince with them and there buisness ways . Again hope this goes well for you

[PeterFromme]

Hey,

I've seen Upstate Exotics posted on this forum many times and nothing good has been mentioned about them. Hopefully, they've cleaned up their act and will get your order out the door. It's a little late, but you should've searched here first before spending that kind of money with them. You know the bean farm produces enclosures from melamine as well.

Good luck with everything...

Peter F.

[sychoram]

Let us know maybe the leopards can change their spots??:yawn:

[BrianB]

Let's be fair. The enclosures might arrive alive and free of diseases. :D

Seriously, let us know how the deal goes. And does anyone know what the relationship is between the two businesses? One in the same, or does Upstate just sell the enclosures for them?

[MR_Jungle_Mist]

Sal & Allison Tornambene own Upstate Exotics, Enclosures by Design, and Moonlight Media.

[vferra7777]

I have communicated with Sal and Neil Gubitz from the Tampa Snake Pit. They both seem genuine and I have no worries so far outside the usual I am paying someone a lot of money that lives far away to build and ship and incredibly important object for my new business to actually begin.

[The BoidSmith]

Vinny,

I certainly hope everything goes fine with your purchase. You asked a question in your first thread but it seems you haven't done your homework! Go to the opening page of the BOI. You will see five tabs as follow:

Home | User CP | Members | Search | Logout

Click on the search tab (second from the right)

You will be prompted to type a keyword to do a search. Type the keyword (you can choose from either Upstate or Gubitz) in the empty box below the following message:

FaunaClassifieds Forums Search Engine
Search By Keyword

Now either hit enter or click on the search tab. Then do the same for Gubitz.

Best of lucks!

[vferra7777]

I did the searches but I just don't know the people making the claims. I read the BOI everyday but rarely add to it. I like to be on the outsiude and learn what I can. The last year or so I have noticed many "whinning" episodes and I have seen the BOI turn into The National Enquirer. I may get burned and I have been burned before, but so far I have had numerous contacts with BOTH Sal and Neil and the deal is going smoothly. Anyone can rip you off as long as the distance is in between but I go to New York all the time and know where enclosures is located. It's not fool proof but the police there would be interested in any complaints.

[The BoidSmith]

Vinny,

It's good you found the information you were looking for. The BOI has thus served it's purpose, in spite of your feelings about it's change during the last year. Let's hope you will be able to live up to your moto "Tu controli il verme". ;)

Kindly,

[vferra7777]

You understand my motto? Do you speak Italian? My grandmother had that saying based on interstinal worms. I still feel confident about the deal and will post pics and evidence when it is all over.

Safe to say that it is a VISA deal and they always handle any problems fairly. I have confidence in them too.

[The BoidSmith]

Vinny,

Enough to tell you "faccia molto attenzione nei vostri affari futuri".

Buona fortuna! :D

[Stardust]

Vinny,
I am happy indeed that you have done your homework. And to the fullest I might add.
I have also seen the change on the BOI, do not judge it too harshly as it still serves a purpose. You just have to get past the pages and pages of peoples opinions without having ever dealt with the company in question. Basically, get down the the real stuff of the people actually affected.
I have done business of late with Upstate, it had some kinks but all turned out very well. I will not post the whole transaction because sadly, it will be picked apart, and it would be picked apart by those who have not even done business with them.
Hope all goes well, let us know how it turns out. :)

[vferra7777]

I understand what you mean. A late delivery, an animal wiuth 1 less band or stripe and a $2 light broken can blow up like a teenage relationship. The BOI is more a horoscope of ambiguity with the truth still there if you have the time and desire to look for it. Thanx to everyone. I will post EXACTLY what happens when the deal is done. I know, as Stardust said, there will still be those that look for the hidden beast.

[gila7150]

Don't be too critical of the BOI. You just sent $1200 to Upstate Exotics so there's a good chance you're going to need it.
I sincerely hope that your transaction goes well but there's usually no need to search for the hidden beast with Sal and Allison....you'll find it whether you want to or not.

[JungleHabitats]

while the BOI does have a lot of microscopes in it ... they are usally needed . When some one has a bad deal no matter how petty it may sound to others ... does a bad deal of a broken bulb make it anyless important when it isnt resolved then ordering cages that never come ? Not every bad deal i will agree to some point is at bad as it " looks from the outside" but none the less a bad deal is a bad deal is a bad deal... when people come and ask about a person / compnay etc they get answers ... now granted it may not be the one they like or look forward to getting but none the less its the answer at hand that either saves some one the heartache of loosing hard earned money. While Both parties in your post mentioned ( Sal & Allison /Neil Gubitz) have had there share of contradictory deals made in the herp world so when questions are asked about those names dont be critical when answers are given . When a deal made with those names go smoothly by all means POST THEM when they go BAD POST THEM then that will add to the pages for the next buyer to thumb through to make there own informed descision. But when one is made and the deal goes south esp. after a post is made of them and there practices the ones that forwarn are the ones who seem to be made the bad guy for pointing out the " hidden lil things" In mu opinion the little things add up to a big thing when there made repeatedly by that person . If that person shows after several transactins that they are making changes in there oldways maybe the ones of here that criticize can be easier going when there numerous posts of deals gone good after there bad ones add up. As with anything in life when you ask questions about anything you will get more then one answer its upto to you as the consumer to take all the grains of salt and weight them out to make the best choice you can with the answers /evidence presented to you.


Hope it all goes well for you Vinnie just keep in mind one thing dont be hard on the ones that people think jump the band wagon on bad deals here as i would venture to say that 80% of the time there were in one way or the other right in there answers given. No matter how small there 'nitpicking" seemed to be as i said the little things do add up to big ones .. Its kind of like having a little white lie told to you .. one isnt a "big thing" but when theres alot of them and you look back those little white lies can be just a peice of the big picture ..
Good luck

[Stardust]

I do agree with you for the most part Alan, though as always there is a flip side. The flip side is a poster who posts something good on what people consider a totally "bad guy thread".
The good post gets ripped apart, it drudges up bad threads in with it and ends with some saying, well you got lucky.
Lets face it, a bad guy thread is just more interesting to some, something they can sink their teeth into so to speak. Why just accept a good guy post when you can turn it back into a bad guy one?
The BOI is great, I will always come here to search. I know though very well I have to search through tons of weeds that grow into man eating plants just to FIND what I am looking for.
I do understand why people just forget about going through all the paperwork.
I am not going to re open the upstate thread to post my experience, shame it is an interesting one. I have learned and don't feel like defending myself or upstate in a 50 page thread.
Again good luck Vinny, hope it all turns out for you.

[W.Wedeking]

Vinny, It is a rule on this forum that you have your full name on each and every post. Without it, your posts carry little weight and run the risk of being deleted. Just click on "User CP" then "Edit Profile" and add your full name to your profile or signature block.


Requarding the subject, does anyone else have this feeling of Deja vou?

[BrianB]

Originally posted by Stardust

Lets face it, a bad guy thread is just more interesting to some, something they can sink their teeth into so to speak. Why just accept a good guy post when you can turn it back into a bad guy one?

I don't see anybody doing that here. I see someone posting an INQUIRY after having risked $1200. I see people pointing that person to the other threads on the dealer. I think that's the responsible thing to to. Sal and Allison have made enough posts here for their own words to be used as a basis to judge them, regardless of any other posts on the subject. If anyone decides to do business with them despite what they've read, that's that person's choice. That person can then report their findings back.

But don't forget, this person posted asking for opinions. My opinion was that if it was drygoods, at least they can't kill it, and I'm curious as to how the transaction will go. I personally wouldn't deal with them, but since I haven't dealt with them, that's all I felt like offering in the way of an opinion.

Other people may feel like they have to expand on what was done previously, to give their interpretations of events and their opinions on what constitutes a good or bad dealer. That's OK too. Apparently, you don't like that type of post. Well, it's an open forum. If you post a good experience with someone, and another poster doesn't feel that your experience is necessarily representative of how the dealer in question does business, or wants to post conjecture about the motives behind the good deal, that's up to them. As long as they don't cross the line into personal insults (like, "you're stupid to trust X" or the like), then they're entitled to post. I personally don't like pure conjecture, b/c it creates a bad signal to noise ratio, but I think most folks can seperate the fact from opinion. And most of the time, the bad dealer does their own reputation far more harm than any third party commentary ever could.

[vferra7777]

Agreed! I am curious myself how this turns out. Does anyone know of another manufacturer of retail multi units? Either "wood" or other fabrications?

[W.Wedeking]

We are supposed to be getting some cages in for our boas this week (I think) from Moonstruck Exotics. They are made out of a plastic and we saw some examples at the San Diego IRBA show. They look nice, are stackable, light for shipping and look like they will be escape proof (very important for the escape artist "Bronson") I will definate post and let every one know how they work. :)

[Dragondad]

I have to say that I would agree someone has a right to post their opinion on an experience. The problem is when a good guy thread starts in on the thread starter for no other reason than the thread is about the guy everyone hates. (Did they put you up to this)(Are you friends) (Are you crazy for not checking the BOI first) If Vinny had bought the cages had a good experience and then posted a good guy post then everyone would have been on him for it. And the major problem I have is that 99% of the people ripping on a "bad" guy post have never dealt with the so called "bad" guy.

If you read my first sentence I say someone has a right to have an opinion on and experience, but do you really have a right to add 15 pages to a thread when its MY experience. Go to current post on Neil if you dont believe me:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25489


And in further context lets play the numbers game, take a dealer who in the course of 1000 transactions over the past six months has one that goes to the BOI as a bad deal..... Is that a "Bad" Guy??? it is if that one is the only post of the 1000 that gets made.

So here is the nutshell of this all, I have had one transaction with Sal and Alison. I did so knowing full well what was posted here and I was willing to take the chance. That transaction came off without a hitch. I would invite anyone else to post the good transactions without fear of the reprisals.

Or for some with limited intelligence I bought from Upstate and liked it!!

We all love playing little junior ferrets, sniffing out the dirt and beating up the bad guy for the sake of a better herp world. Sometimes we need to post and let be posted the good guy threads since the name of this is Board of Inquiry not Board of Conviction.

[Wilomn]

Hey michael, try this one, it for those of you with limited intelligence.

There are, let's say, 1000 boa breeders and resellers out there. We KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt that sal and alison are BAD GUYS. There is no doubt, it's been proven time and time again. So why would someone, unless they had limited intelligence, go with a known BAD GUY when there are 999 other breeders out there who are good guys?

Sure, it's your right to buy from whoever you want whenever you want. I'm even glad you got a good deal on the snake. Were they good at telling you about the animal? How and when it reproduces? What sex it was and how to tell for yourself?

Now the point that seems to have been missed by those of you with limited intelligenceis that some of us think it is foolish to put money into the pockets of KNOWN bad guys when there are so many other good guys out there. Don't be knocking on me or anyone else just because we choose not to give people like sal and alison our money. We too have made a choice.

Now you may be a junior ferret but I don't consider myself one. More like a blundering bear. When it smells fishy long enough, and I think this bear's nose is pretty good, it's gone bad. Once bad it RARELY if ever becomes good again.

So, once again I'm glad your deal went well and it would be nice if all of their deals went the same way. Not bloody likely though.

Wes Pollock

[BrianB]

Michael,

Unless the moderators or admin say otherwise, then, YES, everyone has the right to post fifteen pages on your thread.

As for the Neil thread. Take a look at it yourself if you want to see how the board operates. Ivan's deal was questioned just as thoroughly as any other deal. Turns out Ivan may have jumped the gun. Turns out that the known bad guy here was actually defended in that case, rather effectively and impartially.

I agree to you that attacks on the person posting their experience are unwarranted. I think I said that in my last post, didn't I? However, if someone says something along the lines of wondering why you'd deal with a known bad guy, that serves a purpose too. It lets casual readers of the thread know that they should do a search for further threads. That lets these hypothetical lurkers have a chance to look at ALL of the info on the person, which is something a new good guy thread doesn't. Fact is you should have added your experience to an existing thread. By not doing so, you not only violate the terms of the board, but the spirit of the board. Having the info all in one place, good and bad, serves the goals of the board better than having to chase down multiple threads.

Will you get jumped on for posting a positive experience (or a negative one for that matter) of a deal with a known bad guy? Yeah, probably. People are going to do that. If you said, "Hey, I just played Russian roulette today, and I won!" then people are going to tell you all about the risks of Russian roulette. That's just human nature.

As I said before, though, since you took the risk, I think it's good to hear how it turned out. However, each person has a different threshold of risk taking, of trust, and of forgiveness. People are going to disagree on what's "smart" in regards to these very subjective measures, and on an open discussion forum, you'd better believe that someone's going to give their opinion. It comes with the territory. I think the average reader realizes these things and can sort through the details to arrive at their own conclusions, and to figure out where they lie along that continuum. You certainly did, and you ended up with a deal that was satisfactory to you.

[BrianB]

And in further context lets play the numbers game, take a dealer who in the course of 1000 transactions over the past six months has one that goes to the BOI as a bad deal..... Is that a "Bad" Guy??? it is if that one is the only post of the 1000 that gets made.



I want to address this one specifically. Let's take this in context.

First, there is no concensus on what constitutes a bad guy. Read the threads with a little more attention to detail, and you'll find that everyone has their own opinion on this.

If someone sends out an animal that dies due to illness or poor packing, some buyers will elect not to deal with the person regardless of if they make the deal right with a refund or replacement. They just don't want to deal with someone who might screw up. Even more severe is the person who complains about a two day wait to get an e-mail response from a dealer, because the dealer isn't responsive enough, and starts a thread on them, even though they haven't bothered to even pick up the phone and call the dealer. There have been quite a few of those in the past.

Moving along, you get a bit closer to consensus with posts from people who have supportable, legitimate problems, which the dealer has refused to address. In some cases, there has been a communications breakdown, and the dealer wasn't fully aware of the problem. In some cases, the buyer isn't covered by the agreed-to terms of service. Usually, in both of those cases, the board members at large ask enough questions to get the whole thing straightened out. Sometimes these situations are caused by a buyer who posted in haste.

Then, you get the problems where the dealer flat refuses to make a deal good. Most of the time, it's pretty clear whether the dealer is responsible, and if the dealer is responsible, sometimes the dealer will make the deal right. Now, at this point, some people will say the dealer is a "good guy" because he eventually did the right thing. Maybe the dealer was just being stubborn about making the deal right b/c he didn't like the buyer's attitude or felt the buyer jumped the gun by posting on the BOI. Well, some people will decide that a dealer who had to be brow-beaten into making a deal right is a "bad guy." To each his own.

Then, you have the dealer who's in the wrong and never makes the deal right. This can be delivery of goods/animals that were misrepresented, not shipping the product, sending dead animals/damaged goods, etc. I think in these cases, where the dealer was obviously in the wrong, that, yes, ONE time is enough for most people. However, there are those who would look at even these deals and buy from that dealer anyway.

Then you have the people who repeatedly fall into those last two categories, and exceed them. Your pet peeve seems to be Neil He falls into the repeatedly making bad deals and having to be browbeaten into correcting them category, as well as scamming the community category, as well as the sending an email full of bile and profanity about the members of the community to the wrong e-mail address by mistake category. That e-mail address, by the way, was mine. FWIW, I hardly ever comment on Neil, but I'll tell you this: WAY before any of the above came to light, I couldn't stand him. He just came off as far too annoying, loud, and stupid to deal with.

And that's really the thing that gets people labelled as a Bad Guy in most people's minds: Their own words. Look at the names that keep popping up, then read their own words. If you can honestly read these people's post and say that you don't think their reputations are well-earned, then you have a far different perspective than most folks.

But you know what? You're entitled to post that here. It's an OPEN FORUM. It serves its purpose. By making comments like the one I quoted here, you seem to be saying that you don't think the board works, and that it's biased. Well, you're wrong. You're proven wrong every time a thread is started and the questioning starts. I think Rich knew what he was doing when he chose this format.

[Dragondad]

My situation with Upstate is simply this, I bought an animal I wanted and at a price that was very comfortable. Did I ask for support? no, did I request information concerning sex or reproduction? NO didnt care about that with this animal. In other words they gave me what I wanted an animal at a great price that has cleared a vet check. The animal is now seperated from others(but would do this no matter who sold it to me)(Even your animals Wes). A statement has been made concerning "Upstate has been proven time and time again to be bad guys," and yet in my memory as supported in a post by Stardust, Richie Luna and others that there is probably only two legit issues that their customer service has been proven to be poor. The rest is just tripe that people have jumped on because the BOI has created the label.

Upstate link (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25032)

What we have done is created a forum where because Upstate has beed found guilty then anytime someone may have an issue where they are actually in the wrong, they can get the support to pressure Upstate into making it good. That isnt what the BOI is about. Look at the link above and read the very first response. A good guy post where the subject of the good guy is called a liar, thief and scam artist in the first response and all done in the name of an opinion of someone who hasnt done business with them. Someone else calling them names later in the same thread who admittedly hasnt done business with them.


What I am saying is that any dealer can have a deal go bad, animals can die, get sick or have problems. Its what the dealer does after the fact that makes them good or bad.(I mean beyond the obvious of missrepresenting the animal) I think its funny that by my simply stating one thread about Neil he becomes my pet peeve. No I have had one deal with Neil that was bad, will I buy from him again? Maybe maybe not. Depends on him, not on what you or anyone else says about him. The bottom line is to me I had never heard of Wes Pollock or Brian Blalock until I got to the BOI. If I buy any animal for either of you or any of the so called 999 good guys how do I know that the customer service I get from you will be better than the other 997. Or for that matter better than what I got from Upstate. Can you both tell me that of the last 1000 transaction you have made they all have gone smooth? And does that one that went bad have the right complain to the BOI about how you handled him. \

Let me put the 1000 transaction senario to a more personal level. I did a fast search for "Wes Pollock" on fauna and after about 6 pages couldnt find a good or bad guy period. So Wes how would it be if the one person who posted on the BOI labled you a bad guy because you couldnt make him happy. You would be know as a bad guy all because the other 999 didnt post. Or have either of you considered that there are many more satisfied customers of Upstate out there than will post here, and sadly the good guy posts that do happen get buried by people who wont just let the search function of fauna work. Guess what Brian you search for Upstate you get the good guy threads with the bad guy threads so why should a good guy post be turned bad in the first response.

As Wes said dont fault him for not spending his money with Upstate, well I got news for you both dont fault me for spending my money with upstate. And since when isnt it within the scope of the BOI that when someone makes an inquiry about a dealer do I not have the right to post positive about the dealer and at the same time complain about what I consider poor treatment at the hands of people here. Or for that matter what good is it to post on an existing good guy thread when those turn nasty and 25 pages long. When I put the Neil thread up it was just an example, you go to this tread I linked above and its on page 18 of the BOI why because we all have so much more fun dragging everything through the dirt than we do seriously letting the system work.

I have had one bad experience with a dealer, I didnt know about the BOI at the time of purchase and I didnt know about the BOI when I had problems post sale. But when someone made an inquiry of about that dealer I was more than happy to share
"MY" experience with them.

So I do respect your opinions and you knowledge and if asked please do share your opinions based on your experience. But that is all I ask and that is all I want.

Since we are now way outside the realm of the BOI I would invite you to start a thread in any other appropriate place on fauna and we can continue the discussion there.

[JungleHabitats]

Enclosures by design (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26299&highlight=upstate+exotics)

I understand your point in there defense micheal , but however if you read that post there this is a perfect example of why when people ask about upstate /Enclosures by design the rest of us get the magnifying glasses out. Now Granted the customer did finally get there refund after you read all of the transactions there and there practices / correspondence or lack of , falses and beating around the preverbial bush you can see why Upstate or enclosures by design have a "tainted name" that thread alone would cause me to walk or even run the otherway from dealing with them. Is that fair ? maybe not but from that thread alone it would be enough for me to send my $ somewhere else even if i was looking a reptile and not a cage .Why? due tothe fact that if one person got such a runaround over that ... what would stop that from being what i get ? maybe nothing maybe something who knows ... its like russian roulette ....(sp) if you dont have to take that chance after being informed with PROOF of a persons practices then why chance it ? now as i have stated to Vinnie i sure hope he has this go through w/o a single hick-up that would be IMO a mark for the goodside for Sal & Allison but yet in the same moment i would still not deal with them due to that . thats my personell opinion should that be everyones . while certainly not should it be my right to advise against any dealings with them ? why certainly if they ask other then that we all have to make a descision on who we make a deal with and why we make that deal.

now as a anology
if you had someone you dont know you lets say loaned $500 to and they said that they would pay you back in say two weeks .Well two weeks goes by and you KNOW this person has the means to do it but dont ... you call them ask them for it they dont respond .... you repeatedly ask for you $500 back then they tell you they mailed it and gave you a way to track that $500 and when you do you find out that what they give you was no more then a "stall tatic"and you see this person making post but not responding to you asking for what is yours then say a month 1/2 later after having several friends ask them to do it and strangers ask them to do it you get your $500 back would you then again loan them more money ?

[Wilomn]

Michael, it's a matter of personal preference and principles. I don't believe I ever said you were wrong for doing what ever business you wish with whomever you wish to do it with. The fact that you do business with people I would not is irrelivant here.

The plain and simple facts are these:

I will not give my money to someone who I think is a bad guy, whether that thought is based on personal experiance with that person or how I have seen them conduct themselves with others. It is a direct result of thier actions, or lack thereof, that has led me to the conclusion that they are deserving of the bad guy status they have so rightly earned. It matters not that they had 999 good transactions when the one or, in the cases of both neil and upchuck, multiple deals gone wrong and handled poorly. The first time you lie to me I lose almost all respect for you. The thirtieth or fortieth time it's gone completely. How many lies did both neil and upchuck tell here? It's not just about one or two or three deals that they had go bad. It's the principle involved that they think it's ok to lie, time and time again, to try to get out of their bad dealings.

I don't want to support people that act that way. So I don't. Your deal may have gone good. I'm actually glad that it did. But you can be fairly certain that there are several people out there who do not know of The BOI and NEVER will who did not have such a happy outcome. By supporting such businesses as upchuck and neil you allow them to continue to prey on the uneducated or uninformed. That's where the principle thing comes in. I won't support them because of that. I don't care if it's the best price in the world for the snake I've always wanted, if it's from them I'll take a pass.

You're right about me as far as my reputation goes. Nowadays I'm fairly unknown but, that doesn't mean I don't know good from bad as far as animals, sales and customer service. You also won't find me telling you your refund check is on the way, processed by paypal. lost, my mother died, I shipped the cage but don't have an accurate tracking number for a week or that the snake I sent you as a yearling captive bred animal is several years old and wild caught. If we ever do business, and as small time as I am it makes no difference to me whether we do or not, it will be smooth and you won't be wanting a refund.

You found neither good nor bad about me but, if you look closely you will see that I have also told the truth throughout. Can you say that about the people you choose to support?

There are plenty of tortoise breeders out there who will not lie to you or anyone else, espcially not time and again. If it's worth it to you to save a few bucks.... well we already know it is so I'll just let it go. It's really not a right or wrong kind of thing, it's principles and I'm not trying to shove mine down your throat because you are not wrong, I just don't agree with you.

A lot of people seem to think that it IS a right or wrong issue when they make a deal with someone like upchuck or neil and then I, or someone else, come on and say that they got lucky. To me they did get lucky because in my world when you trust someone who will lie right to your face you are asking to get that face slapped. Sooner or later it WILL happen. If it doesn't work that way in your world, well, cool. And good luck to you. Personally, I don't like getting my face slapped, especially by someone in whom I have placed my trust.

I don't have to get my face slapped to know that the potential exists when dealing with certain people. It's sort of like running a stop sign. Sure, most of the time, maybe 9 out of 10 there is no cop there to write me a ticket but, I know the possibility exists because I have gotten tickets from cops before and I know others who have gotten tickets for running stop signs. If I keep running stop signs I WILL eventually get a ticket, or in other words, slapped in the face. Cops don't change. They may not get you every time but eventually they will IF you keep running stop signs. The only way to avoid those slaps, er, tickets, is to not run the stop signs, or in other words, don't give your money to people who are known liars, thieves and cheats.

Wes Pollock

[Stardust]

Alan, I respect the fact that even though you have your own opinion, you can still see and understand both sides of the coin, so in that alone it stays a nice level headed debate.
I can see where you are coming from, and I am the one to say upstate has made their share of mistakes. I would be angry but open as well, you have to admit, that sometimes there is a lot of pressure, so to speak, for the poster trying to make a fair assessment based on what they are experiencing??
What I try to do is cut out all of the opinions in a thread and just stick with the facts, not an easy task. I do this because all too many times I see people spouting off what they don't really know anything about. So once I have read one of their opinionated threads, I have basically read them all. I do read some opinions, including yours, ones that I see that are not droning on about the same thing and giving me a different perspective, that I find informative.
Anyway, I take most out, and just read the facts between the people who are experiencing it and then I make up my own opinion.
For now I am going to get off this thread, I like the idea of finding a more appropriate place for this discussion as I find it an interesting one.

[Stardust]

I have taken the liberty of posting my last reply in the "sound off" forum, only because it is a anything goes type of forum. :)

[W.Wedeking]

You know, I read these posts, and I determine who I will do business with by the way that person posts.

I use my own judgement.

And I think that is all any of us can do and is expected to do. As individuals, we all have our own standards.

Things like, it is important to me that who ever I am buying an animal from (doing business with):
be HONEST
be TRUSTWORTHY
know about the species (product) and it's husbandry
know about the individual animal
provide good customer service

Now, you notice I capitalized two words in that list. HONESTY and TRUSTWORTHY, without those, none of the rest will matter. All of those totalled up = INTEGRITY and earn RESPECT

They need to know about the species and husbandry so that it is properly cared for and thus healthy when I get it.

Now, when I read posts reguarding establishments like Upstate, it is very obvious they have no concept of this. I determined that NOT by what the other people were saying about them, but by reading their own posts. You see, Upstate was kind enough to post their own proof of their own lies time and again. They were kind enough to post with plenty of attitude and lack of mental fortitude that showed by THEIR OWN POSTS that they are not HONEST, are not TRUSTWORTHY, in somecases didn't even know what species they had let alone how to care for it, and this occured multiple times.

Now, does everyone have a deal that goes wrong, make mistakes etc? Of course they do. But, if you are HONEST and TRUSTWORTHY to begin with, the chances are minimized and they are not going to reach the BOI because an HONEST and TRUSTWORTHY business person will fix it without hesitation. Let me repeat that: WITHOUT HESITATION.


Now, someone like Mr Gubitz, would I purchase anything from him? The answer is no and again, it isn't what anyone else said about him, it was his own posts that lead me to that choice. I have been reading the BOI long before I registered as a member and at that time, Mr Gubitz was a "friend" of the board. From the first post I ever read by Mr Gubitz my opinion has been that he is the south end of a north bound donkey and that every time he opens his mouth the apropriate fertilizer falls out. That was my first impression of him and it is still to this day. His own posts provided me with the information that I made that judgement with.

This is why this board is here. So you can read the posts and determine for yourself, what you think is acceptable, and not and so you can determine who you would do business with and who you would not. The fact that we are all individuals means we make different choices based on different criteria......or as my mother would say:

"To each his own" said the old woman and she kissed a cow.

[sychoram]

Vinnie did you get your cages?? Do let us know, don't leave this thread dangling.

[vferra7777]

Deal's going well. Sal just contacted me as did UPS with the tracking info for the 3 packages (just the first unit). They should be here Tuesday with the other unit about 3 days behind. The invoice said Sal paid the difference between normal rate and "faster". He has also upgraded his site and I have heard from 4-6 other people that have dealt with him and were very happy. I will post the "last thread" when all have arrived along with pics of each cage and the store setup. Check back next week to see how it all turns out. I feel confident and I am the one with the cash on the line.

[ReticEd]

Sal and Alison have been known to toss out fake or bad tracking numbers in the past..
Have you verified them on the UPS site?

If not, would you mind posting the tracking numbers here for others to check into?

[JungleHabitats]

Hope it gets there as promised for you Vinnie Good luck

[vferra7777]

Here we go. This is a copy of the e-mail that Sal sent to me with all my UPS info. I have saved all e-mails and will post those also.


Package Information
Package 1 of 3
Tracking Number: 1ZY2666E7291587719
Package Type: Your Packaging
Dimensions: 56 x 12 x 8 in.
Actual Weight: 102.0 lb
Billable Weight: 102.0 lb
C.O.D. Amount: 22.00 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.00
Reference#1: Small 12-Unit Double Enclosure 1/3

Package 2 of 3
Tracking Number: 1ZY2666E7293085329
Package Type: Your Packaging
Dimensions: 50 x 12 x 7 in.
Actual Weight: 68.0 lb
Billable Weight: 68.0 lb
C.O.D. Amount: 22.00 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.00
Reference#1: Small 12-Unit Double Enclosure 2/3

Package 3 of 3
Tracking Number: 1ZY2666E7291953939
Package Type: Your Packaging
Dimensions: 73 x 12 x 4 in.
Actual Weight: 68.0 lb
Billable Weight: 68.0 lb
Additional Handling: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.00
C.O.D. Amount: 22.00 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.00
Reference#1: Small 12-Unit Double Enclosure 3/3

3 packages enroute. I will have 3 more coming next week. And we shall see. I have spoken with Sal on the phone many times and he just left a message on my machine at 4:00pm 11/8/2003. Is every body on the edge of your seats. I know I am. I really need those cages. If not, my pet store will open with tiny sweater box systems. Not a impressive but very functional.

[ReticEd]

C.O.D. Amount: 22.00

Correct me if I am wrong, but is that Collect On Delivery charges?

I thought that all charges were taken care of when you paid Enclosures by design for the cages.

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Well I wish you the best luck on getting your packages. If you check the status of them online, they were sent Ground and not a quicker service and they have not been shipped yet. They are being billed at C.O.D. for the Ground amount to you so you will have to pay for them when they arrive. The billing information has been received (this is done when the Airbill is filled out online) but the packages have not been received. I hate to say it but you won't be receiving them any faster than the normal ground shipping to your location if they are sent at all. It is beginning to look alot like the previous transactions but at least this time the tracking number shows up in the system but that does not mean they were shipped. Please keep us posted on this.

[JungleHabitats]

can some one give me this info ? i am curious about something .
238lbs of shipping and the sizes of the packages ... all for $66.00
not saying that its wrong .. but that does seem AWFUL cheap to me .. so if any one knows a address i would like to just dbl chk this with UPS on ground prices lol if there right i have to open an account with them ASAP

[vferra7777]

Upstate is in the "Adirondak" region of New York State.

In my last e-mail, Sal said that I owe $66 per box COD and $39 that he had to pay at UPS location. Let's start taking up a collection for me to fund "Vinny's Kids" so they can have a new unit for Opening Day 11/17/2003. Our goal is 4.5 million. They are a little spoiled.

[JungleHabitats]

is that 3 boxes and you owe $66 for each box? plus $39.00 ea or one time ?

[vferra7777]

Sorry, $22 per box for a total of $66 + $39 more for charges that Sal spent on Friday.

[Stardust]

I think it was a great way to send it in different boxes. It keeps the weight down and therefore in a cheaper shipping. After a certain weight the shipping price skyrockets????

[E2MacPets]

Just wanted to clarify, verified the shipping prices on UPS' website and the prices are approx. 75, 26, and 26.

[vferra7777]

Sorry friends but my computer locked up on me. I checked too and I got about the saem. The prices are pretty accurate. All seems OK except that I can';t track them as of 11:00 pm Saturday (11/8/2003). We will know for sure by Thursday (3-5 business days). I am thinking by Wednesday. The second will follow. As I will do with my other posts.

[JungleHabitats]

by Dims & weights i got roughly the same figures steve did .

[vferra7777]

Sal e-mailed with this pic of shipping means and dates.

[JungleHabitats]

np

[vferra7777]

It seems all questions will be answered by Tuesday.

[vferra7777]

I have my three tracking numbers but still I can't seem to get more that an electronic message that someone has contacted UPS and they can not verify that the package is in transit. The message from UPS says that they should be here sometime afternoon on the 11th (tomorrow). Hopefully they will arrive then so I can get them setup. We are having a party at the shop on the 13th for friends and family so any chatters that will be in the area, come on by for some fun and adult beverages. CIAO!!

[JungleHabitats]

Do you mean Drinks, Cocktails, Alcoholic delights? lol wish i was closer id stop in to have a few with ya .. Far as the UPS goes well i will refrain from any comments until you post tuesday with your findings lol or wed after we know for sure ... just so ya know i have my eyes crossed for you vinnie ... ohh wait thats from being infront of the screen to much lol its the fingers i have crossed ya thats it ...

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Vinny,

I hope I am wrong but it looks like the same thing that they pulled on the other customer. While there are times that the tracking information is slow to upload it does not take 4 days to reflect the shipment. I wish for your sake the packages arrive tomorrow but as of now I would not hold my breath. The tracking information still shows only that the billing information was received and like I said in a previous post, this comes from creating the Airbill online. When the package is picked up it gets scanned as picked up and that will reflect shortly after on the website. The fact that this still shows as billing information received shows me that they never shipped the packages but rather pulled a fast one to make it look like they have. Again I wish the show up tomorrow for your sake and please by all means inform us tomorrow if they do or Don't show up. Also if they don't show up I would immediately contact you credit card and have the payment reversed so you can avoid the long waiting game that They have come to be known for.

[vferra7777]

Thanx for the advice. I am worried too. I had ordered some books from Amazon on Friday and got the same tracking message then and all weekend, but today the message was accurate and on time. I am very worried why this message still hasn't changed. As of 6:00pm, Sal hasd not contacted me back but I am waiting. Thanks for the concern and here's to tomorrow.

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Well it looks like they must have forgotten to ship them until today. They are on their way to you now but were not shipped until today. Like I said before they created the Airbill's on the 7th but did not ship them until today. Please keep us posted on when they do arrive which won't be tomorrow as Sal told you they would be.

[vferra7777]

It looks like something is coming my way from NY. We will see. Says it should be here Wednesday. Wish me luck and those drinks will be beer, if the cages come through and look like their picture we may even brake out the Boonesfarm/Mad Dog. It could get ugly. Thanx for all your concern here's to tommorows.

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Here are the details of the shipments for everyone to see.

Status: In Transit
[ Rescheduled ]
Rescheduled Delivery: Nov 12, 2003

Shipped to: MIDLOTHIAN, VA, US
Shipped or Billed on: Nov 7, 2003



Tracking Number: 1Z Y26 66E 72 9158 771 9
Service Type: GROUND
Weight: 102.00 Lbs
Multiple Packages: 3





Package Progress:


Date Time Location Activity

Nov 10, 2003 10:45 P.M. COLONIE, LATHAM, NY, US DEPARTURE SCAN
10:04 P.M. COLONIE, LATHAM, NY, US ARRIVAL SCAN
8:53 P.M. QUEENSBURY, NY, US DEPARTURE SCAN
8:39 P.M. QUEENSBURY, NY, US ORIGIN SCAN
Nov 7, 2003 8:50 P.M. US BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED


Status: In Transit
[ Rescheduled ]
Rescheduled Delivery: Nov 12, 2003

Shipped to: MIDLOTHIAN, VA, US
Shipped or Billed on: Nov 7, 2003



Tracking Number: 1Z Y26 66E 72 9308 532 9
Service Type: GROUND
Weight: 68.00 Lbs
Multiple Packages: 3





Package Progress:


Date Time Location Activity

Nov 10, 2003 8:30 P.M. QUEENSBURY, NY, US DEPARTURE SCAN
8:19 P.M. QUEENSBURY, NY, US ORIGIN SCAN
Nov 7, 2003 8:50 P.M. US BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED


Status: In Transit
[ Rescheduled ]
Rescheduled Delivery: Nov 12, 2003

Shipped to: MIDLOTHIAN, VA, US
Shipped or Billed on: Nov 7, 2003



Tracking Number: 1Z Y26 66E 72 9195 393 9
Service Type: GROUND
Weight: 68.00 Lbs
Multiple Packages: 3





Package Progress:


Date Time Location Activity

Nov 10, 2003 8:30 P.M. QUEENSBURY, NY, US DEPARTURE SCAN
8:19 P.M. QUEENSBURY, NY, US ORIGIN SCAN
Nov 7, 2003 8:50 P.M. US BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

[JungleHabitats]

looks like UPS had them out for delivery this morning @5:24 -7:00 & 8:15 am ...... looks at the clock ... come one vinnie get them together and show us pics !

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Vinny,

Please give us the update on the cages. I see that you refused 2 of them and one says it was becuase of damage. Please update us on the status and on the other package.

[ms_terese]

Like most everyone else here, I'm anxious to see how this turned out.....and believe it or not, I'm hopeful it turns out well........ now with that said.......

It sounds as if there may be some unforeseen issues if 2 of the packages were refused. If that's the case, I'm hoping Vinny tries to get things straightened out before he posts here, so that there is an opportunity to get issues resolved first.

However, I'm guessing this means that Vinny is going to be in a bind for his grand opening, no matter who might be at fault. :(

[JungleHabitats]

Well they way it looks no matter how it turns out it cant be good as teresa says that probably going to put a thorn in the opening :mad:

like the magazine says though ....Inquirying minds need to know

Vinnie i hope you get some answers on why and how ... maybe it was just bad handling on UPS's part ?

[gila7150]

Don't you wish predicting lottery numbers was this easy?

[JungleHabitats]

Give peace a chance ..... ( but yeah if only Vegas was so easy !)

but untill we know i am going to go with UPS handling ..
see that glass it is half full .... sorta kinda almost

[JungleHabitats]

I wonder if # 3 was sent back as well but just never entered ? as its still out for delivery and doesnt show it made it there yet ?

[vferra7777]

I know everyone is curious and many have followed my packages' progress down the east Coast. Those same people have also seen that 2 packages arrived and 1 did not. UPS LOST the other package and did this (pic below) to the middle sized one. Sal came through as promised. The cages were high quality, packed properly and shipped as intended. You be the judge though for UPS. The UPS guy said it looked like one of the packages may have been "dropped".

I have to make a claim. The other unit should arrive, Just like Sal sai, on Friday. What are the odds that UPS screws this up? If anyone has any advice how to handle UPS, please give it. The package was insured BUT there is more than money that i am out of. This is going to stress my monday date. Should I bring this up with them and how long does it take to get my money back?

And to Sal I say that I am sorry for the stress that I showed here, but there were some weird coincidences and I should not be held to blame too much. to all my new friends out there, especially Jungle, thank you so much for the support and words when I was "bummin'". To the BOI and its "fabric" I say that I was wrong in my assesment of the general sway the BOI has taken recently

Final PAssage:
I have learned that the bad things swell and fester and take forever to go away while the good things are unnoticed. I will keep the post up for the others and now the UPS saga and post pics of my opening day. The glass guy came with our logo and window art work and it is just what I hoped that I would have 5 years ago.

[Sasheena]

Vinny, I think that this is an actual example of the members of the BOI waiting around to see what happens. we WANT to know that it turns out okay. Heck, I would sure like to see a good half dozen glowing recommendations from new customers on here, and even a deal that goes wrong but gets handled RIGHT... If I saw all of this then the next time I saw a snake for sale from Upstate, I might actually consider buying it. So I WANT to hear that they did the right thing. I want to know that they've learned from mistakes and turned a new leaf and all of that. I DO believe it is possible to change. If I didn't, I wouldn't be a school teacher. I see the basic sort of change I'm talking about every school year. People can change and mature, and I'd like to believe it's not limited to teenagers.

Good luck with your grand opening, and please let us see pictures when you get the packages and assemble the racks and have everything put together.

[JungleHabitats]

well like i told you Vinnie it does look like it was dropped in loading or possibly was stood up and knocked over and hit something to snap them like that( thats why i like Plywood myself lol it wont do that )i have never had to resolve a claim on merchandise with UPS thank god ... but i will say if there ANYTHING along the lines of Airborne .... in solving a claim of damage/ destruction like that it will more then likely be a fun process.Airborne either holds it there location for there inspectors to evaluate the damage or sends it to a large hub for them to look at it took me more then 6 months to get a claim settled with them of $1000.00 on a cage they crushed w/ a forklift lol and they had to "determine the cause of damage" even then i was only sent a check for $600.oo and a excuse that it wasnt packed to there standards ( 1" of foam packed on the product" but it had 3/4 foam but even that cant stop a runaway forklift lol . hopefully UPS has faster claims then Airborne does and it will be processed swiftly. Airborne states that there claim process can take upto 6 weeks to be settled, it took me 4 1/2 months of calling several times a week to get just over 1/2 my refund back. i still use them but have learned to double the insurance value on anything i insure so that when settled if need be i get what i wanted to start with lol .
keep us posted and cant wait to see the shop

[The BoidSmith]

Vinnie,

Good to know you received your merchandise. Sorry about the accident though. Is it covered by any type of insurance? With small packages you are automatically covered for $100 even if you don't buy insurance. How about such a large package?

Kindly.

[vferra7777]

Thanx again all. Sal is sending me the insurance stuff. It was packed very well and really excellent looking cages., My second one is coming friday. What are the odds UPS can screw it up again.

To Shasheena, I am also a high school teacher and have seen many leaves change. That running back for the Cincinatti Bengals, Rudi Johson, was one of my students. The change in him was amazing. One day he just decided to take life more seriously and try to be a positive and not a negative. I would do business with Sal again, I do need another cage, and I would recommend him. I would also tell everyone out there to do business with whom you trust and use imput as a peripheral source.

[gila7150]

The cages were high quality, packed properly and shipped as intended.
It was packed very well and really excellent looking cages.
I would do business with Sal again, I do need another cage, and I would recommend him.
I can appreciate your optomistic attitude but don't you think you should assemble these cages before you give such a ringing endorsement?
How can you tell they are quality cages by looking at a few sheets of broken melamine through a tear in a box?
I hope they are everything you expect them to be but it seems a little premature to recommend Sal as someone to do business with.....especially considering his past and the fact that you haven't seen the finished product yet. I know everyone is shocked to see them actually ship a product and hopefully they'll continue to surprise us by handling this shipping problem quickly for you.
I wish you luck...this could be a very long process.

[pcole]

[QUOTE] I am also a high school teacher
I would also tell everyone out there to do business with whom you trust and use imput as a peripheral source.

"Imput"? No wonder our young people cannot spell...Thank you "High School Teacher" for proving to me that one of the main problems with education today is sub-standard teachers :)
Pete

[nextworld3]

I almost never post on threads unless i have something good to say, But i think you are WAY out of line Pete, one mis spelled word is no reason to say that! My mother is a high school teacher and i take offense to that comment! Also his spelling has nothing to do with this thread.



Thanks,
Jon
www.reptilemorphs.com

[pcole]

Jon:
You are correct. This had no place being posted in this thread as it does not address the issue. Let me apologize for going off topic.
Thanks,
Pete

[Sasheena]

Thanks for the apology Pete, weak though it was.

My own spelling leaves a lot to be desired. I've "taught" my work and my home computer to fix most of my misspellings. But I still make mistakes.

I teach MATH at the high school level. I do my best to get everything the kids see correct. AND I laugh with them when I make a mistake. (My most common one is to write a list of items, and I always seem to skip #4).

I work with troubled kids, I was a troubled kid when I was in high school. I dropped out. I'm in school to help others from making that mistake. A lot of my students are learning disabled... so am I. Dyslexia. I know some people use that as an excuse for poor grammar. I use it for occasionally inverting the letters, or sometimes using a 9 in the place of a p. (They are both sticks with circles attached).

Don't go blaming the education level of today's kids on the teachers. It is NOT the teacher's fault. It is NOT the parent's fault. It's a symptom of a society with problems. A many faceted problem with NO simple solution.

Our school secretary makes announcements over the PA system. Frequently she says "Today the LIEberry will be closed". I wince each time I hear it. Do I think that she's single-handedly responsible for the lack of ability in my students? Not on your life.

Sorry to keep going on but I just plain HATE it when people think there is a simple and easy solution to the troubles of today's youth. It isn't simple. I'm there to help. To love the kids unconditionally, even when they are jerks. To help them to see a bigger picture, and like any parent, to hope that age and maturity bring wisdom, to hope that they do not end up dead in the desert due to gang activity. I love my kids, I pray for them, I teach them, I befriend them. But damn it all, I'm not perfect.

[JungleHabitats]

Hey there ,

first i applaud you for what you do , KUDOOS to you

Second if hes going to pick on someones spelling by all rights he probably should have tagged me lol.I think pretty much in EVERY thread i post theres 1/2 dozen gramitical errors lol and its probably some in this to or will be by the end of it:D See my problem is the "fingers go faster the the eye's" and by the time the eyes look to see what the fingers have done on thescreen the fingers have done hit "send" and well we know what that means ! dohhhhhhhhhh

Memebers< thats my most famous typo i think lol
lol i try to ALWAYS checkthat when i type it ... lol i guess it just feels sooooo goog typing the meme part lol its alll about me !

[pcole]

At the risk of extending the "off-topicness" off this thread, I would like to state for the record and in my defense that my original comments were intended as an "attempt" at humor (hence the :) at the end of my comments). I have apologized for going off topic and now apologize for offending anyone with my comments. I certainly applaud the hard-working, underpaid and dedicated teachers out there and am indebted to some from my school years. It is a noble profession and from what you say Sasheena you are a credit to it.
I will in the future promise to stay on topic and remember that humor is in the eye of the beholder:)
Humbly,
Pete

[nextworld3]

Hey Pete,
Thanks for the apology!


Jon Dvoretz
www.reptilemorphs.com

[vferra7777]

I like the comments. That's exactly why I was turned off to the BOI. It's too easy to cast stones from a great distance with a rag arm.

Now back to the events:

As some saw, the 1st cage arrived on time and of very nice quality. The UPS guy said it must have fallen (it was cracked in half). You can see the pic in my previous thread. I place the claim with UPS and they say their (oops there's my poor spelling again) sorry, but the shipper must claim and receive the check. I forwarded all that stuff to Sal [he will not come here and see it so I must forward it]. I haven't heard from him, but he is making another one. I think I will change my order to a smaller unit.

The 2nd unit should arrive tomorrow afternoon. I haven't been tracking it because the store has required much work. We just got in some hognoses and FWCs from Great Valley serpentarium and I had to rush to setup emergency housing. Thank God for sweater boxes and duct tape.
I really don't know where they are but I have no reason not to trust Sal, I am just scared of UPS. But what are the odds. I will post tomorrow afternoon.

I hope we all learned a lesson here (PETE!) until you actually know someone stay in the <font color="red">bull#@!#@</font>pen

[vferra7777]

That picture was taken when they first arrived as evidence against UPS not in support of Sal. After I took the pictures, we opened it up more and took all the peices out.

I bought some cages from Reptile Housing Authority, whom I think make excellent melamine cages and they were definately comparable and even up a notch. RHA uses a very this board as bottom of each cage where these hd the same thick wood. Also, RHA leaves gaps inbetween the cages in a multi. Tha looks nice but is not as efficient in space and temp as the solid unit. They are both very nice.

[Neil Gubitz]

Pete.... just for the record.... you wrote....

one of the main problems with education today is sub-standard teachers
Pete


the CORRECT phrase is.... ARE sub-standard teachers....

So what does THAT tell you??

People in glass houses??....

[vferra7777]

Wer'e better than that stuff. Give Pete the benefit of the doubt and let's move on.

[pcole]

I hope we all learned a lesson here (PETE!) until you actually know someone stay in the <font color="red">bull#@!#@</font>pen [/B]

Huh??? I'm trying to decipher your masked obscenity but I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Anyway...hope all works out for you with the cages. Sorry you bought from a crap company!
Cordially,
Pete

[vferra7777]

I thought it was witty when I wrote it, but now it doesn't look very nice. My wife would have been embarrased. I am sorry.

[pcole]

Originally posted by Neil Gubitz
Pete.... just for the record.... you wrote....

one of the main problems with education today is sub-standard teachers
Pete


the CORRECT phrase is.... ARE sub-standard teachers....

So what does THAT tell you??

People in glass houses??....

:beer: Good catch!
But for the record...I'm a product of public schooling not an educator.
Pete

[ms_terese]

I'm a product of Catholic schools, so I have to correct this...one of the main problems with education today is sub-standard teachers
the CORRECT phrase is.... ARE sub-standard teachers....
Sorry, Neil, it was correct the first time...

ONE (of the main problems) IS, not ONE (of the main problems) ARE.

The tense is relative to the noun, not the prepositional phrase...

Sorry for being petty, but Sr. Joan would strangle me if I let that one slide....

:wavey:

[pcole]

Thaks for watching my back!!! :2gunsfiri
Vindicated!
Pete

[pcole]

Originally posted by pcole
Thaks for watching my back!!! :2gunsfiri
Vindicated!
Pete

Ooops I meant "Thanks"...darn I felt sooo good about my grammar too!
Pete

[Stardust]

LOL Terese, I, too am a product of Catholic schools.
Wonder if it is the old Catholic guilt kicking in when I feel I must forgive and forget??




Anyway, I am happy you are satisfied with the product. Strange that was the flaw in the transaction with me and Upstate(or is that Upstate and I? too old to remember and do not really care lol) as well, UPS. Seems since they have moved they have had nothing but problems with them. Hoping all the rest come in fine.

[Neil Gubitz]

Well, there I go again.... open mouth, insert foot!!

I thought because the word problem was plural, the word should have been "are".... I WAS DEAD WRONG!!

Pete... My sincere apologies!!

Keep my mouth shut and let people THINK I'm an idiot, or open it up and leave them NO DOUBT!!.... lol

One of these days, I'm going to be a GREAT WIT!!.... I'm Half-way there!!

[ms_terese]

Vinny,

Have you come up with a "Plan B" to get you through your opening?

Neil,

I'm sorry for being a grammar slob. I can't help myself. I'm looking for a 12-step program....

[vferra7777]

Hello. Our plan B is a small 10 compartment baby holder that I got from Doug Barrs (real good guy).. It will hold the babies for a time, it's just very small (2' x1' x1') but it works. The other unit should be here this afternoon. I still haven't tracked it.

Had a stingray go "death curl" the day I got them and we have had to clean and disenfectall of the tanks. I need to find out what happened. Other than that, it's going very smooth. The sign guy came with our logo. I will post a pick this afternoon. I also have a shipment of Red-Eyes, fire millipedes and some Ts in this afternoon that have no housing. The good thing is that our local pet smart sells a vey nice and very cheap 2.5 gallon aquarium that will do.

[vferra7777]

Finally. The unit arrived today. UPS bumped it a little but no damage. I took it in and opened up everything. All was labeled as to what peice, orientation in the whole and helpful hints to help put it together faster. It only took about 1.5 hours. .5 of that was trying to open the boxes. They were taped up pretty good.

In shipping, some things were jostled and in need of tightening, but otherwise just as advertised. The plexiglass fit, which has been rare in my experience, and actually looks good. The light fixtures he sent are very neat. Small round units that have a cool plug. The plug is separate and each prong has a spike on the end. You place the cord over it and slid a conector on which forces the spike through the insulation and connects to the wire. I have never seen them and really liked their ease. I will post pics on Sunday afetr I wire and caulk it all. Good Job Sal. I give Sal a thumbs up and a "Good Guy" rating. Infact, this unit is big enough and sturdy enough that I won't be needing the other unit. I will just get my money from UPS.

[Neil Gubitz]

Vinny.... even though I had nothing to do with it (lol).... I'm glad you like it.... All I have to say is.... WHEW!!

Neil

[ms_terese]

I'm really happy for you, Vinny!

[Dragondad]

Two days after the completion of a transaction, that everyone watched with all hope it would fall apart so the bones of Upstate could be picked clean, only two people have commented on it.

I can understand that the world is not going to give Upstate a "good guy" label but 'ms_terese' had a great idea on a thread with Neil. We should at least acknowledge that they had good transaction. And all who cast the doubt through 19 pages should at least say that all the negitive garbage was misplaced and Upstate did ok.

So Vinny glad it turned out. And to Sal and Alison good job. Keep it up!!!

[gila7150]

Two days after the completion of a transaction, that everyone watched with all hope it would fall apart
Who did this? I think that just about everyone who warned Vinny about Upstate's prior record wished him well and said that they hoped everything turned out ok for him.
I'll congratulate Upstate on finally making a customer happy but I'd still never send them my hard money. Mistakes happen but the way they've handled some of their past mistakes tells me all I need to know about them. Sorry, but one good transaction after their prior history hardly deserves accolades from the masses IMO.

I'll also stick to my opinion that melamine is a horrible cage material. I don't quite understand why anyone would choose to buy a cage that costs a fortune to ship just to have to assemble and seal it themselves. Why not just build it yourself at that point?
......but Vinny is happy and that's all that matters.

[Stardust]

UMMMM Chris, ummmmm, excuse me, more than one customer, you can add me to the list.

[gila7150]

UMMMM Chris, ummmmm, excuse me, more than one customer, you can add me to the list.
Cool, maybe they can keep this tidal wave of support rolling.

and maybe Tim Bowles will sell a healthy Emerald Tree Boa so he can be a good guy again too.

Like I said, I'm glad Vinny is happy.

[JungleHabitats]

I as well told Vinnie that i hope all went well , i also told him this more then once . I spoke with Vinnie several times Via Email , I still would have to say that while yes that Vinnie and Rozyann may have got a product snake/cage from them i still would not constitute that as being a fair enough reason to send them money for a snake or cage. I look at the reptile trade kindalike used car salesman and "shadytree garages"
Now while yes both of those can be a good buisness to deal with if you were to know of several people that bought a used car from Joes used cars , Joe says oh yeah this motor is in top shape you will get a easy 100,000 mile out of it ... and as you pull out of the lot and get a block away it blows up . Now joes says sorry i cant help you would you buy a car from Joe? now say a year later Joe is still in buisness and he has a car you want .. would you still buy that car from him knowing his track record ?

Same with a backyard garage ... if you took you car to have fixed .. they said it will be done in a week .. well a month passes and they avoid your calls and keep telling you it will be done , then tell you its ready you get there to find out its still on the rack and in peices .... you finally get your car back because they didnt do anything to it ... would you go back?
It may very well be that Sal & Allison may never have another bad transaction and honestly i hope that would be the case . but i still wouldnt send them my cash for a product from there past handling of deals and non delivery of goods they promised , even said was shipped out and never arrived then to tell you they have picked it up a week later at the place where it was shipped out from ?
i still am a firm beliver in my signature
"Buisnesses come and go everyday , what keeps you here tommorow , is how you treated your customer the day before "

its a proven fact that while you can have 100 happy deals made they dont get the notice as one single bad one does . and when that bad deal goes avoided or lied to or just ignored it cancels out all 100 good deals in the eyes of most due to the fact the consumer will look at it well maybe i will be the NEXT bad deal that goes on and on with thesame circumstances as there last bad deal.. so while yes i am happy for vinnie forthe deal going well. that is far as it goes for me . I still would not put trust in a company that doesnt make EVERY customer happy or atleast make every effort to make them happy , while i know not EVERY customer can be happy at every given deal. but what shows you tried is the quick responses to there needs , address there concerns and show them that you care that you are tryingto resolve there problem . then ifafter that you cant make them happy i would say no one can hold that against you .

[vferra7777]

AS sad is it is, I have to place myself it that "for shame" category. I was nervous expecially after some misunderstandings and UPS' screwup. o way to go SAL and ALLSION.

[Sasheena]

I believe I have expressed my hope that Vinny's deal would go well. I have been waiting on pictures of the enclosure for my final "Congratulations".

Any pictures forthcoming?

[ms_terese]

I'm guessing that with the grand opening, Vinny's maybe been just a *little* busy....LOL.....Hopefully he'll have some pics up somewhere soon.

[vferra7777]

Sorry, but it has been crazy with the opening. The cage is completed, only took about 2 hours by myself. Sal labeled everything and it was not very difficult. Instead of one solid back he has individual panels made to have an 1/8 inch gap for the wires. I think it is much better than drilled holes or gromets.

I have it hooked up to a thermostat. Each cage is individually wired so you will need a large surge protector to connect all or you could wire them all together if you have the confidence. I do not.

We have ha quite a few people coming in and have sold a few things and feedres. I feel better. I was terrified that we would open and have no one come in the whole week. The cool thing is that I was able to advertise in the school, how would most of you like access to 2,000 teenagers in a relatively affluent area EVERY YEAR?

It has been better than I thought, I just hope it grows and just breaks even. We have a good lease, $8 square foot, 1 month free and 4 months 1/2 price ($750) for a 1700 square foot store.

We ended up a bit over budget and don't have the reserves that we had hoped for, but we stocked pretty well and have a good supply of animals. Over the past 6 years we have been stock piling the animals and over the past 6 months we have been stockpiling supplies. I will keep you all posted in a different thread. But again, here are the pics and the other cage, the one destroyed by UPS, is still up in the air. Sal sent in the claim and all monies will go to him. The cage he sent is big enough and sturdy enough that we will just take the money from the destroyed cage and use it elsewhere. Maybe my getting the momey from Sal will also be another thread. Anyway, thank you to all who helped (Alan) and those that were just really good sounding boards. If any one has any business ideas about what MAY be expected from this small business in the next few months, or supplies/animals to carry we would be eternally grateful. It's all new to us.

[JungleHabitats]

Not to hark on this ,
1- But the cage that was destroyed maybe i missed it are you having to wait unitl Sal settles the claim to get your $ for that cage ?

If you are told you have to wait for his refund from UPS i would seriously have a talk with him on that. IMO since the cage was destroyed and you refused it i would say you are entitled to two options either a new cage / or the money back for that cage . Either way you should not have to wait until the claim is settledwith UPS on that for your refund.


2 - The cage > what covers the screws that fasten it together? are the screws that fasten each level countersunk flush ? Did he send screw caps for those?


Now lets see some "area" pictures of the store and the storefront we wanna see what everyone there see lol

[Neil Gubitz]

Vinny.... that cage looks GREAT!!.... That was a smart idea about the 1/8" space instead of holes....

In your store, you will be selling a LOT of heat light bulbs and strip lights.... you might want to stock up on different wattages of those.... also, bedding of different types and wood pieces and waterbowls of all sizes for decoration.... I sold tons of those items in my store.... You should TRY to stock every live food item you can.... pinkies, fuzzies, mice, jumbo mice, rats of all sizes, rabbits, crickets, mealworms, superworms, fruitflies, and a lot of dry food for all types of animals and the Calcium and vitamins for them, too....

You should do very well with all those kids around.... do yourself a favor, though.... if the kids are UNDER 18.... MAKE SURE you get approval from their parents, because in NY, a MINOR can CANCEL a "contract" at any time up till their majority.... which means if they want to bring the animal back, you HAVE TO give them their money back if they're minor's.... BY LAW!!

Good luck, and make a fortune!!

Neil

[gmherps]

Awesome set up Vinny!!!!

[Stardust]

Vinny,
I am happy everything turned out for you :)
Good luck in your business. And keep us informed.

[vferra7777]

Hello guys. The cage is sunk and he did sendthe caps I just haven;t put them on yet. The only thing that I wish I could change is the white lights. I would love to paint the glass cap purple or red. I am not ure if the animals are bothered by it? The store stays pretty warm and the thermostat that controls the cage is a good one. The lights come on every once in a while. I just don't know at nigfht if they are bothered? They all have hides. Hi Neil. We have a lot of feeders and bulbs now. I need to get decorations and some more hides. I like the little plastic caves from Big Apple. They are gray plastic and I can buy a lot at maybe #3 each. How are all of you? I will have store pics up today sometime this evening.

[JungleHabitats]

Have you heard anything about the UPS claim yet ? just wondering what the status is ? drop me a email when ya read this.

Take Care
Alan

[vferra7777]

It's been awhile fellow herpers. The store is doing very well (sales and customers). As to the claim, I called UPS and a claim has been acknowledged from enclosures but nothing has come of it. I cannot do anything until they decide. That's $550 tied up that we could definately use in/around the store. hello ALAN.