Go Lizards - Thumbs down.

[Mark and Aimee]

We recently ordered two female Hermann's Tortoises from Go Lizards. We had some problems getting the money to the right place (sent to the wrong email address, funds put on hold, took a few days to straighten it out). Go Lizards was patient during the process.

After payment was recieved, communication came to an abrupt halt. We had to call and email several times to get a ship date - and we did not recieve a tracking number until after the tortoises arrived. Didn't do me a lot of good at that point.

These two tortoises measure 4-6 inches each. They were sent in a box that was WAY too large, in a pillow case together, with very little packing material to keep them from tumbling around in the box. One tortoise was on it's back when we opened the box. It was apparant that the box could be shaken around, and the tortoises went for quite a ride.

They were sent Airborne Express afternoon delivery instead of 10:30 AM delivery. There was no reason for this, since we had the shipping billed directly to us. Why bother choosing the cheap route??

Our requests for heat packs were ignored - and the tortoises arrived in 40 degree weather. Both were very cold.

One tortoise has runny eyes, and is quite underweight. The other is not as bad, but still a little lighter than I would have liked.

Even after numerous phone calls and emails, Go Lizards has not contacted us in regards to their shipping procedures and the condition of these animals.

It seems their guarantee is worthless, as they do not bother following up with their sales.

As soon as the money was recieved, the communication and service ended.

In all, I am extremely dissatisfied with this service, and would not order from them again.

[ScottsReptiles]

Do you have any pictures to show how they were recieved?

[Mark and Aimee]

They were freezing cold. I picked them up from the location I have my packages delivered to (a UPS store). I opened the box in my car. I found a pillow case, with two tortoises in it, and almost NO packing material.

Would you have stopped to take pictures? I'm sorry, my concern at that point was the health of the animals.

I really don't think pictures are necessary in this case.

[ScottsReptiles]

Sorry.. I always take pictures... especially if they are in bad shape...

[GoLizards.com]

I apologize for the delay in my response time. I did receive your message and I was going to be giving you a call today. In your message you said they arrived cold. I did not know that one tortoise arrived on its back. I apologize for this. It was warm here and I did not put a heat pack in the box. I've shipped all over the country and haven't had a problem.

I will call you so we can discuss a refund or other options. I hope we can resolve this is a manner that makes you happy.

Thanks,
Jason Cruse
GoLIzards.com
913-341-7389

[ScottsReptiles]

So what are your standards for packaging herps?

[smart_ask]

I traded for a 1.1 pair of YellowFoot Torts from Jason a couple of months ago and felt it to be a positive deal. They where packaged and shipped properly. The Male did have "cloudy" eyes but Jason stayed in touch after the trade. I did treat them a few times for parasites, kept them soaking more than normal and kept them under higher temps but I would expect to do the same with anyfresh imports. The males eyes did "clear" up and both currently are eating machines. Overall the animals I received where as discribed and shipped properly. From my deal with Jason I do believe him to be an honest guy and will be totally surprised if he doesn't go out of his way to make this right.

Respectfully,

[Mark and Aimee]

Well, I must apologize. There is no way Jason could have known anything about these animals.

He didn't ship them. Go Lizards is located in Overland Park, Kansas. The tortoises were shipped by "Lil Critters" of Plano, TX (about 540 miles away). Here's the tracking number for reference (Ariborne Airbill #9757571950)

Jason told me he "got them from a friend". My best guess at this point is he brokered the animals for a friend.

This would explain why Jason knows nothing of the way the animals were shipped, nothing of their condition, and could not even give me a tracking number in a timely manner.

In any event - I'm still waiting for that phone call to clear everything up.

[GoLizards.com]

I don't know if your still on the computer but I tried to call you. Please leave a time that would be good to call you. Hopefully we can talk and resolve this issue.

Thanks,

Jason
GoLizards
913-341-7389

[Mark and Aimee]

Not 10:55 PM on a Sunday night. I can accept phone calls any time during the day, or evenings.

[Mark and Aimee]

I just talked to Jason. This issue has been resolved in a satisfactory manner for all parties involved.

[Classic Dum's]

Jason there is a debt you owe thats now almost a yr old, you need to pay it you have till May 22nd, 3wks or that among other info will be aired out here, it needs to be paid IN FULL no more bull excuses by the 22nd

[John E Dove]

Mr. Sweigart,
Rather than attempt to use a long resolved thread to collect a debt you might want to consider starting a thread of your own stating your problem with the person you are accusing and posting all information relevant to your case against them including all emails exchanged before the problem started up to the present.

[Classic Dum's]

mr dove i think the rules say to use exsisting threads, if they dont then whatever 22nd is 3wks away

[John E Dove]

And your evidence that you had any kind of dealings with them?

[John E Dove]

BTW Mr. Sweigart,
The reason I questioned your starting up this old thread is the fact that Go Lizards is not likely to see it. According to their profile they have not even been on Fauna since Feb 10.

"GoLizards.com
Invalid email address!
Last Activity: 02-10-2008 03:20 PM
Offline
Trader Rating: (0) [Rate This User!] "

[John E Dove]

Well someone must have contacted them they are on line now.

[GoLizards]

I am here now. I have no dealings with Mr. Sweigart. Mr. Sweigart is a third party. The situation is already being taken care of. Again, the situation had nothing to do with him.

[SPJ]

I just had a deal with Go Lizards for Flagyl that I needed (much less than the vet was going to charge me for the same thing) and it went smoothly.
No problems, shipped great, all went well.

[Classic Dum's]

"I am here now. I have no dealings with Mr. Sweigart. Mr. Sweigart is a third party. The situation is already being taken care of. Again, the situation had nothing to do with him."


No Jason this situation has not been taken care of NOT EVEN close. Why dont you get it taken care of so we can move on anjd forget about it, sound good?

selling flagyl dont you need some kind of license to administer anti biotics???? In most states you do, pay the debt or well be looking real hard into it in your state, good day Jason

[John E Dove]

"I am here now. I have no dealings with Mr. Sweigart. Mr. Sweigart is a third party. The situation is already being taken care of. Again, the situation had nothing to do with him."


No Jason this situation has not been taken care of NOT EVEN close. Why dont you get it taken care of so we can move on anjd forget about it, sound good?

selling flagyl dont you need some kind of license to administer anti biotics???? In most states you do, pay the debt or well be looking real hard into it in your state, good day Jason

Your innuendos are getting really silly and display your lack of knowledge.
No a licence is not required to administer antibiotics in most states. Prescribe yes, administer no.
Vets commonly prescribe antibiotics and leave the actual administering to the animal owner. In a number of states antibiotics can be purchased over the counter at feed stores for use on livestock.

[Classic Dum's]

Your innuendos are getting really silly and display your lack of knowledge.
No a licence is not required to administer antibiotics in most states. Prescribe yes, administer no.
Vets commonly prescribe antibiotics and leave the actual administering to the animal owner. In a number of states antibiotics can be purchased over the counter at feed stores for use on livestock.presrcibe whatever, it took me five minutes to find the answer yes it is in fact illegal for him to sell it

trust me dove I know way more then I want to about Jason, I dont need nor want this dramam I have bigger things in life to worry about but this situation needs to be resolved and this is simply a warning shot im firing under his bow, hoping it will give him the motivation to rersolve this issue fully, so we can all move on with our lives without any further drama or postings on here,

if he does the right thing, this will just slip away and soon be forgetten, if he doesnt Mr Dove you seem very eggar to stir the pot, the 22nd youll be able to get a nice big 2x4 out to stir the pot with ok?

Untill then unless Jason has something to ad im done, Jason resolve this NONE of us need this if this is your way of taken care of things, well just resolve it ieeee

[The BoidSmith]

Jason,

It would be helpful if you explain what "situation" you are talking about.

One other thing, flagyl is not an antibiotic.

[KelliH]

Your innuendos are getting really silly and display your lack of knowledge. No a licence is not required to administer antibiotics in most states. Prescribe yes, administer no. Vets commonly prescribe antibiotics and leave the actual administering to the animal owner. In a number of states antibiotics can be purchased over the counter at feed stores for use on livestock.

Flagyl is not an antibiotic and as far as I know, the liquid suspension can only be distributed via prescription by a vet. It can be purchased without a prescription in Mexico however.

[KelliH]

Actually, I am technically incorrect: Flagyl is a type of antibiotic, in reptiles though it is normally prescribed to treat amoebas and flagellate protazoans.

[John E Dove]

I dont need nor want this dramam I have bigger things in life to worry about but this situation needs to be resolved and this is simply a warning shot im firing under his bow, hoping it will give him the motivation to rersolve this issue fully, so we can all move on with our lives without any further drama or postings on here,


You sir, are the one who attempted to start "this dramam" by posting innuendos with no evidence against someone you have had no dealings with.
If indeed Go Lizards is in some way a bad dealer then the person who has had the bad deal needs to come on here and post their experience with email exchanges attached and or pictures if applicable.
I can assure that should there actually be an unresolved bad deal here everyone would appreciate the warning to avoid this seller but at this point all you seem to be doing is running a baseless smear campaign. It is my understanding that third party reporting is not permitted on the BOI.
Frankly I am surprised you have not been warned about this by the forum Moderators by now.

[Classic Dum's]

"Flagyl is not an antibiotic and as far as I know, the liquid suspension can only be distributed via prescription by a vet. It can be purchased without a prescription in Mexico however."


My point exactly YOU YOURSELF may buy a small amount for personal use on yourself or your collection out of mexico. However you may NOT resell it. same for controlled pain killers you can legally get small amounts out of mexico or canada but its all for personal use, not for resale.

[varnyard]

I have dealt with them twice, both times went smooth as silk. I would deal with them again, no problem at all.

[Cat_72]

Actually, I am technically incorrect: Flagyl is a type of antibiotic, in reptiles though it is normally prescribed to treat amoebas and flagellate protazoans.

Just a bit further on this:

The principal clinical indications for metronidazole include the treatment of specific protozoal infections (amebiasis, trichomoniasis, giardiasis, and balantidiasis) and anaerobic bacterial infections such as those that may be seen in abdominal abscesses, peritonitis, empyema, genital tract infections, periodontitis, otitis media, osteitis, arthritis, and meningitis, and in necrotic tissue. Metronidazole has been successfully used to prevent infection after surgery. Nitroimidazoles also act as radiosensitizers, and metronidazole has been used as an adjunct to the radiotherapy of solid tumors. Metronidazole is bactericidal at concentrations equal to or slightly higher than the minimal inhibitory concentration.

Flagellates, especially Hexamita spp , have been reported to cause urinary tract disease in chelonians and intestinal disease in snakes. The “giardia” seen in some cases of enteritis in snakes may actually be Hexamita or one of the relatively nonpathogenic flagellates that inhabit the intestinal tract of snakes. Differentiation between the species requires expertise, and special preservatives and stains are required to identify most of these organisms. Metronidazole at 25-50 mg/kg, PO, repeated in 3-5 days has been used to treat flagellates. Indigo snakes, king snakes, and uracoan rattlers should be treated at the low end of this dosage range. Fenbendazole at 50 mg/kg, PO for 5 days is more effective at eliminating Giardia in mammals than is metronidazole. Early studies with fenbendazole are very encouraging and it would appear to be the drug of choice for treating flagellates.

And yes, the Flagyl suspension is only to be sold by prescription in the US.

[KJUN]

And yes, the Flagyl suspension is only to be sold by prescription in the US.

You can buy it in a feed store in some cases for use in livestock (not reptiles)...and it is illegal to use it off label. Yep. If you get meds - like Panacur - labeled for livestock (i.e., cattle, etc.) to reptiles, you break the law. With panacur, I don't think it is a big deal. With antibiotics, I like it when people that use it irresponsibly get in trouble. Selling it off label without a prescription deserves a fairly large fine....when we are dealing with antibiotics.

[Wraith]

As I posted last year in another thread involving Go Lizards..

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83786
post 42


I tried to bring up the fact that they were illegally selling Flagyl in a suspended form (in ads on KS). I also tried bringing that to the attention of the KS folks, but was told that they don't bother nor care to verify the legality of items being sold on their site (even when it was proof positive that selling flagyl without a prescription was a violation of federal law). In the US, flagyl is only available as a tablet. To get it in the "suspended form", you have to buy it from another country (i.e. usually mexico). For a person to suspend it themselves (i.e. crushing up tablets and putting it in liquid) is illegal . And having taken vet related classes I learned even a vet can't suspend flagyl into a suspended form unless they have a pharmacological license to prepare/combine medications. Yes, vets often combine some medications themselves illegally just as they also often prescribe drugs for "off label" use.


Metronidazole (Flagyl)

HOW SUPPLIED

Metronidazole Tablets, USP: 250 mg - White, round, convex, unscored tablets in bottles of 100 250, 500 and 1000.

Debossed: SL 333

500 mg - White, oblong, convex, unscored tablets in bottles of 100, 500 and 1000.

Debossed: SL 334

Dispense in a well-closed, light-resistant container as defined in the USP.

Store at controlled room temperature 15º- 30º C (59º- 86º F). Protect from light.

CAUTION: Federal law prohibits dispensing without prescription.

WARNING: Metronidazole has been shown to be carcinogenic in mice and rats (see PRECAUTIONS.) Unnecessary use of the drug should be avoided.

Metronidazole can cause birth defects if given to a pregnant patient. It should never be administered during pregnancy.

Metronidazole should be avoided or used with caution, at reduced doses, in animals with kidney or liver disease.

[KJUN]

> To get it in the "suspended form", you have to buy it from another country (i.e. usually mexico).

Not completely true. My wife can get all she wants from the pharamcy in suspended form........as you allude to below, too.

> Yes, vets often combine some medications themselves illegally just as they also often prescribe drugs for "off label" use.

Yes, but licensed DVM's CAN use meds off label when appropriate....and they may need to justify that use if something happens. They have the legal ability to do some things that you and I can't. Duh.

KJ

[SPJ]

Well now it makes sense why it was cheaper and the label was written in Spanish. :angry:
No wonder the vet was upset when I brought the bottle in to over the first dose and the following ones. :angry: :NoNo: :censored:

[snakewrangler]

Metronidazole can be found on the shelf at any reputable aquarium shop. It is marketed by Seachem, and we sell a lot of it at my shop. As far as I know, we don't have any type of special license to sell it.

[John E Dove]

Erythromycin & Tetracycline are also readily available antibiotics sold in pet stores. They can be used for other animals with a little research into proper dosage just as you can use the same Ivermectin paste, or Panacur Paste I use on my horses.
Is there a risk? You bet!!
But the bottom line is that these meds are freely sold over the counter without a prescription and without requiring a special licence to sell them. Heck I can even get Penicillin at the feed store.
If the bottle says it is a prescription medication then that specific grade of that medication is regulated but that does not mean that all forms of that medication are regulated.

[ravensgait]

Good post John, like many Meds it depends on the concentration or dosage as to whether it is a prescription med or not.. .. Randy

[KelliH]

Metronidazole can be found on the shelf at any reputable aquarium shop.

Really, in the liquid suspension form? I never knew that.

[Cat_72]

Metronidazole can be found on the shelf at any reputable aquarium shop. It is marketed by Seachem, and we sell a lot of it at my shop. As far as I know, we don't have any type of special license to sell it.

Per the Seachem website, it is NOT sold by them in a suspension form. I have been able to find it in tablet form elsewhere, but as has been stated before in this thread, it it is the SUSPENSION form that is to be sold by prescription only.

[KJUN]

You are still violating the law by using it off label. It is sold for aqauria usage at a specific rate - not for snakes. Encouraging people to use it off label is encouraging people to violated federal law...and the person doing it deserves a hefty fine when we are talking about antibiotics. I could care less about panacur being misused.

This isn't unusual. Most organic farmers know that vinegar is a good herbicide under some conditions. Agricultural grade acetic acid is sold for such a purpose, and it is legal. Using household vinegar - which is NOT labeled as a herbicide - to spray on plants is illegal. Off label no matter how stupid this sounds to me. Look at Round-Up. It is labeled at a certain concentration. Let's say you mix up a batch twice as strong as the label says - yep, the feds could bust you: you broke the law. At least this example makes a lot of since to me.

I could go on and on. Lots of things that are legal to sell are still illegal to use - by federal law - except as specifically approved and printed on the label. The uses on those labels HAVE to be approved by the feds and, in many cases, the state where it is being sold.

Good, bad, or neutral - that's the law. Right, wrong, or amoral - there is a good reason antibiotics are controlled!
KJ

[Cat_72]

Erythromycin & Tetracycline are also readily available antibiotics sold in pet stores. They can be used for other animals with a little research into proper dosage just as you can use the same Ivermectin paste, or Panacur Paste I use on my horses.
Is there a risk? You bet!!
But the bottom line is that these meds are freely sold over the counter without a prescription and without requiring a special licence to sell them. Heck I can even get Penicillin at the feed store.
If the bottle says it is a prescription medication then that specific grade of that medication is regulated but that does not mean that all forms of that medication are regulated.

To take this a step further....a "suspension" is not simply dissolving a drug in liquid. The idea behind a suspension is to have the medication "suspended" yet not dissolved in the base liquid, to ensure an even and accurate dosage with each measure (why you must shake well before use, lol). To accomplish this, the medication must be divided into even and equally sized particles, and then the computations needed to ensure the drug is given in the typical small (as well as accurate) dose required for many herps and small animals is something which the layman simply crushing tablets and dumping them into a liquid cannot ensure.

Secondly....the metronidazole that is in the tablet/powder form will simply dissolve in the liquid, therefore a different, insoluble form of metronidazole is used to create the suspension, metronidazole benzoate. The possible toxicity of the benzoates in some animals such as cats is a concern.

All of these things combined, as well as the general reasoning behind the proper regulation of use of ANY kind of antibiotic type med, are the reason why the suspension is to be sold BY PRESCRIPTION ONLY.