Derek Roberts/Sonoran Reptiles-Bad Guy [Archive]

Classic Dum's

11-10-2003, 09:32 AM

For anyone who is unaware of the situation last year. Adam Block came on the BOI and started a thread about Kevin & NERD. He claimed to have purchased a ball python from Kev that later on died of some mysterious desease caused by dehydration. Adam claimed to have personally kept the ball himself in imaculate conditions and after having/caring for it for several months.After several months this animal that Adam couldnt even prove he or Derek ever owned/bought etc. supposidly died of something and Adam claimed it was due to improper care given by Kev. At one point Adam told Kev if he gave him half the value of the ball python worth of animals he would drop it and walk away. Now it is just my opinion but I dont think there ever was a ball python I think Adam seen someone who had a good reputation that he could black mail into a free animal. However thats just my opinion. However if there ever really was a ball python it is now obvious that this was a scam set up by not only Adam Block but Derek here as well.

Posted by Derek Roberts
And finally, Ritchie, you know who I am as we have corresponded on another thread recently and I would just like you to know that you are completely wrong about Adam's fictitious dead ball python. I was there when he received it, I watched it eat, I watched it deteriorate, and I saw the aftermath. If you would like to discuss this further, you know my #.

Now take note to how Derek flat out lies. He claims" Richie was wrong about Adams fictitious ball" he says he was there when ADAM(he) reiceved it. He says he watched it deteriorate, well of course he did the ball python was his.

Posted by Adam Block
Fact of the matter is the snake (albino ball) was kept by Derrek Roberts if there was an actual Ball Python a year later the truth comes out. Giving credit where credit is due I must say Richie did one hell of a job ferreting the above qoute out of Adam. Why would Derek sit back and allow Adam to do what he did???? When in fact the animal(if there was one) belonged to him? I realy dont know what to make of this. Its pretty sad though when one person can sit back and allow another to slander/liable someone like Derek did when this person didnt even own the animal they claimed was theres. Then Derek comes on here and lies and backs Adams claims.

Classic Dum's

11-10-2003, 12:52 PM

Personally I dont believe there was an albino ball python from NERD that died. I think this was all made up garbage meant to strong arm Kevin into free animals. However for the sake of this I will assume and respond as though there was one from Kev that died.
Adam cold not produce a receipt for the animal or anything at all to prove it came from Kevin other then Dereks word.Derek couldnt rember what was bought from who he claimed to have bought two albino balls and one het. Kevin rembers selling an albino and a het togther but Adam claims Derek says he only bought an albino from Kev and purchased the pr from someone else. Now with this we have found that Derek holds absolutly no credibilty as he sat back for over a year watched Adam lie about the whole situation and even came here as recent as two weeks ago and backed up Adams lies. So if there was an actual albino ball that came from NERD that one of these two owned and killed considering they couldnt even produce a receipt for the animal my opnion is it was purchased from someone else, probally a hobbyist with only a couple animals. Then when Derek killed the animal the whole thread was nothing more the an elborate set by the both of them. NERD has a very good reputation within this buisness. So if they could make it appear as though the animal came from NERD and it was somehow Kevins fault it died,they could strong arm Kevin into giving them something to replace the animal.
Posted by Adam
I purchase my animals from the breeders I do is because I feel they are big enough people in this business with enough of a reputation at risk to be trusted Actually instead of saying "at risk to be trusted" it should say "at risk to be blackmailed" probally just a goof on his part
They were more likely to get a larger amount of return from someone like Kevin then if they went after a hobbyist. Also looking down the road if the replacement was from Kevin(NERD) it would have a higher resale value for the animal itsself and any offsrping it produced. We all know that something coming from Kev or any of the other "big names" has higher sale value then animals coming from a hobbyist. As I said the above is just my opnion based on what has happened and looking at the change of events the above theory makes perfect sense to me. Below is some more quotes that help outline my theory. Some are redundant from my prior post however I felt important along with some of the others I have been pulling from the older threads.

Posted by Adam
8/02 My partner purchased an Albino ball python at the Daytona Show.
Above Adam is claiming Derek was his partner. Now below he is claining Derek was not.
There was never any "partnership" per say made.
Below Adam is refering to the albino ball python.
8/05 The animal was place in my care, was feeding fair and in good physical condition.

The below qoute was posted by Derek only a couple weeks ago

I would just like you to know that you are completely wrong about Adam's fictitious dead ball python. I was there when he received it,

This quote was posted by Adam only a couple of days ago, he planly states it was kept by Derek for the first two months

Fact of the matter is the snake (albino ball) was kept by Derrek Roberts for the first 2 months.
Take note to the quotes by Adam above 8(aug.)/02/2002 he claimed it was purchased by partner. Then on 8/05/2002 he received it. Then

10/02 The animal was fed and two days later ended up regurgitating her meal between nine and eleven pm. Less then twelve hours later the animal was dead. He claims it regurged and died two days later which would be 10/04/2002. He says it was with Derek for the first two months. So what we have here is either it was with Derek up till it died, then they both lied. 8/02/2002-10/04/2002 = 2months and 2 days. Or it was with Derek till the day it regurge(exactly 2 months) then after it regurged these two decided they were going to shuffle it from house to house and cage to cage further stressing it out(which right there would explain cause of death) in which case Adam would have actually told the truth for once(what a concept) or Adam completly lied about the time of death along with everything else because he didnt post the thread about Kevin till Jan of 2003 over 3 months after he claimed the animal died.

Now lastly below are several more qoutes from Adam showing how he claimed the animal was in his care.As for the snakes drinking. I of course can't say it drank each and every day. I will however say I never saw the snake go more then 5 days without taking a dip in it's water dish.

Humm now this below quote is cute. How was he assured of anything when in fact it was his so called partner that bought the animals in Daytona when he was in AZ?I was assured that I was getting a healthy animal free of any troubles From who?

4) The snake ALWAYS had water while in my care. Always had water in his care? Maybe he is refering to once it died. Maybe it was kept in his fridge and he watered it there, i dunnoI was trying to relay that the snake was in my care three days after it was purchased. OH REALLY??? Not only did he say that once but said almost the same thing twice within a couple pages I was trying to convey the snake was in my care three days after her purchase

I thought the below qoute was cute to typical Adam trying to play both sides of the court.
I place no fault in that post and I ask for nothing other then peoples thoughts on the topic at hand. I would feel as if the deal was made right by replacing that Albino with a het Albino.

Yup Adam you have proven Richie to be a liar and blowing smoke up everyones butt once again LMAO!!!! Shame on you Ritchie you somehow managed to trip Adam in yet another lie and your the one who is blowing smoke. Oh good work by the way LOL
The below qoute was taken from an email Adam sent to Richie Lune.
Also Ritchie, because I know you hate lier SO much and that whileyou're mistaken I'm a lier . I thought I would keep you from blowing any more smoke up anybodies ass

I posted this same post in both this and Adams currently running thread as it seems relavent to both. Howveer if Rich considers this off topic for one I apoligize. To me this seems to tie their relationship toghter and answer some questions about this whole scam.

ScottsReptiles

11-10-2003, 02:05 PM

And this pertains to Jules_'s situation how? Sure.. something bad might have happened earlier.. but.. there is already a thread about it.. and.. I don't see why bringing it up now helps Jules_ at all.

Suncoast Herpetological

11-10-2003, 02:07 PM

Scott

I think it is definitely pertinent. It gives anither example of possible misconduct by the gentleman she is having trouble with.

Classic Dum's

11-10-2003, 02:26 PM

its his name in the header by rules were supposed to use exsisting threads, because of the mangnatude of this I would love to see a new thread opened about this more people would read it. This thread and the one with 'adam block banging on the front door" most people probally wont read. Hardly anyone knows who derek look at how few reads this thread has. and the one about Adam well when it keeps bouncing to the top with mine or Richies name in the reply section i dont think many will pay attention because it looks as though, adam, richie and myself are just at it again. this is new and IMO very important, more important then any of the previous threads. for a year derek knowingly allowed Adam to lie and slander/liable a company, even came here two weeks ago and backed Adam and those lies up, he flat our said he seen the animal delivered to Adam, we now know that to be a bold faced lie. Im speachless over the whole deal I cant believe someone would have the gull to come here and do what Adam did, nor that Derek could knowingly allow it to go on. This takes the cake. Truely Unbeilevable.

Jules_

11-10-2003, 03:43 PM

All of this is making me very nervous about whether I will ever see my $280 again. At this point, I would be happy with a refund of my money. What makes me more nervous is the fact that Derek is a member here and has made no effort to reply or remark on the situation. Hopefully a check will be in my mailbox tomorrow and I can post an apology. I understand that Derek is on crutches, but how does that stop him from typing on a keyboard?

Adam Block

11-10-2003, 03:46 PM

Blah, Blah, Blah!! You get Kevin in here then we'll talk.. Until then think what you like, it has no effect on my life and I don't think anybody really cares anymore.

Gotta get tiring fighting the battles of Kevin, Jeff B., Chad Martin and Ritchie Luna. Well, the up side is you have nothing else pressing going on in your life to be concerned with!

Me feels sorry for mister man Jason.

Classic Dum's

11-10-2003, 04:55 PM

it has no effect on my life and I don't think anybody really cares anymore. Adam in some other thread you said it took you 9 months to get ahold of one of the people you were using as a referance why do you think that is? Ill enlighten you, because people do care. Do you honeslty think anyone with a good rep in this buisness would want to be associated with you??? Your so called freinds are hiding from you, caller ID letting the machine get it and then hitting the delete button when they hear your voice.

What you did to Kev was wrong. You tried to steal from him. the animal was never yours you never had any right to go after Kev even if there really was a albino ball purchased from Kev that died because of his care(I think we all know it didnt die because of Kevins care) Fact of the matter is the snake (albino ball) was kept by Derrek Roberts There was never any "partnership" per say made. Hello.....Adam....earth to Adam. I think we can now safely label you and theif. What you did was atempted theft no if ands or buts about it. You admit you two were not partners and that the animal was his. You never had any right to try to collect any kind of claim for that animal.

For the past year you and Derek have been living that lie and Derek even took part in defending that lie. I wonder if the two of you could face crimanal charges Ill beat ya could. BOTH OF YOU. Dude honestly I am speachless I cant belive a low life like you can live with yourself. For the past year on several occasions you have thrown it around "oh my ball python from NERD" etc at least 5 differant times in threads I read that had nothing to do with you or NERD you threw that out there as an example of "bad people" or an example of how you were screwed. THE ANIMALS WERE NEVER YOURS. yOU HAD NO RIGHT WHAT SO EVER NONE. Its sad that we have to share this word with people like you. Then to top if off you try to hide in the BOI and pretend to draw the bad guys out

But yes Adam we know you MO well for you to reply with you little bla bla bla post you did, you know your screwed. You better prey Kevin doesnt sue you, because I am going to prey he does, hell maybe even Bob could join him in that suit. This would be an open and shut case and he could go after you personally, your not going to be able to hide behind your buisness in this one. If he sues you I feel for your child and wife, because of your actions they will suffer and thats sad and you got the nerve to yelp at Ritchie that be betrays his family. You are something else Adam, oh well you got no one to blame but yourself.

Classic Dum's

11-10-2003, 04:58 PM

Me feels sorry for mister man Jason. Oh and dont feel sorry for me all is well here. You need to be feeling sorry for yourself and what could be coming down on you and possibly your buddy there as well.

Adam Block

11-10-2003, 08:03 PM

I'll be on the lookout for any young wanna be metal heads.

Until then, sit back relax and enjoy the plasma TV baby. I say good for you, never been a fan of having a brown nose but heck when you're getting kickbacks like that the smell gets easy to deal with.

Adam Block

11-10-2003, 08:04 PM

Back to the thread, Julie, let me know if you need any other help finding him. He's a good guy and I don't know anybody who knows him and doesn't like him. You won't have any troubles either getting a refund or your animals shipped!

Good luck and shout if you need anything else.

ScottsReptiles

11-10-2003, 10:21 PM

W.Wedeking

11-10-2003, 11:07 PM

I think Jason's point is that you cannot count on Adam in this. Even though Adam may very well be sincere, he has discredited himself to enough people that if you mention his name, most are going to turn and run the other direction.

Julie, what form of payment did you use to make your purchase?

HerpVenue

11-10-2003, 11:30 PM

Correction,
jason's point is this.

Adam Block started a thread against NERD for a ball python he supposedly had in his care for two months and died.

The truth is Derek Roberts had the ball python. He knew it but he never exposed Adam. To top it all off he tried to somehwat cover for Adam.

You can read about here
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14850&perpage=5&pagenumber=6

It took over a year. But Adam has been exposed. And Adam exposed his "friend" as well.

In other words....Adam's "so called "sincerety" might just have an unseen slant.

Unfortunate really.

Adam Block

11-11-2003, 12:21 AM

But Adam has been exposed. And Adam exposed his "friend" as well.

Yeah yeah Ritchie. So are you ready to let things go yet? I've been exposed, you've won the whole battle and good has won. Me and my friends are exposed! You did it!

Ritchie, you're a joke! You've spent a year and god knows how many hours on this, you've followed me around from post to post, you've come out of your retirement and all to finally expose me. And who seems to care again? Um, sorta looks like just you and Jason.

Maybe it's time to grow up and get over it. Fairly sad affair when I'm acting like more of an adult then you (I said this just to see you retort).

So with that said, why don't you get back to your porn sites, Jason get back to the Plasma and let it go as you're work of "exposing" me is done.

Also, Jason, since you insinuate I have some justic in store waiting for me I'll assume that's good enough for you and you can let it go? Yeah that's what I thought.

Anyway, I'm sick and really don't care enough about this as I don't really have a reputation to protect and well, in all honesty just don't care to correct all you're incorrect facts so I'm off to the shower.

HerpVenue

11-11-2003, 12:25 AM

Anyway, I'm sick and really don't care enough about this as I don't really have a reputation to protect and well, in all honesty just don't care to correct all you're incorrect facts so I'm off to the shower.

Thank you for not caring .......but coming back to post.
Incorrect facts?
Oh so now you are going to say you had the ball python all along?
Or are you going to say Derek roberts did not cover for you?
Or are you not going to correct it because you know it is the truth and you are busted.

Trust me Adam.................people do care.

The BoidSmith

11-11-2003, 12:28 AM

It’s been over a month since the payment was sent out. Even a broken ankle doesn’t excuse Derek from having the courtesy to contact Julie and explain the nature of the delay. If he can be contacted at work (according to Adam), that means he is more than likely able to access a phone or a computer from where to e-mail Julie.

Regards.

Adam Block

11-11-2003, 12:36 AM

Fine Ritchie I'm busted! You caught me! Derrek had the snake for a period of time while I said I did. I'm now exposed for the world to see me. Okay? LOL I mean what are you looking for? Do you think this is FBI files? Most of the things you "uncover" I would have told you over the phone had you ever been man enough to pick it up and call.

Last year you had everything you needed and decided to look the other way. Now, I really don't care what happens and you're not going to find out anything here I haven't told anybody on the phone.

<hr>
You're correct about Derrek not contacting you. I'm not Derrek and can't speak foror excuse his actions. I'm only telling you he's a good guy and not to be worried that you were scammed. I would be just as unhappy if I were you that's why I gave you another contact number. My hope is that there's an easy explination and I'm sure there is.

HerpVenue

11-11-2003, 12:40 AM

Anyway back to Derek Roberts.

Adam has many many many of his own threads.

The last correspondence we've received from him was on Oct. 8th. We still have not received the animals. He has not replied to our emails, nor has he returned our several phone calls requesting a refund of our money or shipment of animals. So you sent money October 8 and he says he received it but that was the last timeyou heard from him.

No e-mails no nothing.

I will have you know......he should have at least e-mailed you.
I know for a fact his inernet is still working
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=68703

He was online on the 28 and 29 of October.
But he did not contact you....not even by e-mail through this site.

Most of the things you "uncover" I would have told you over the phone had you ever been man enough to pick it up and call. So you lied on the forum....but you would have told me the truth on the phone. Yup I was born yesterday.

As aforementioned. Take discussions about Adam the liar on his many many many many threads.

HerpVenue

11-11-2003, 12:49 AM

Yeah yeah Ritchie. So are you ready to let things go yet? I've been exposed, you've won the whole battle and good has won. Me and my friends are exposed! You did it!

Ritchie, you're a joke! You've spent a year and god knows how many hours on this, you've followed me around from post to post, you've come out of your retirement and all to finally expose me. And who seems to care again? Um, sorta looks like just you and Jason.

Maybe it's time to grow up and get over it. Fairly sad affair when I'm acting like more of an adult then you (I said this just to see you retort).

So with that said, why don't you get back to your porn sites, Jason get back to the Plasma and let it go as you're work of "exposing" me is done.

Also, Jason, since you insinuate I have some justic in store waiting for me I'll assume that's good enough for you and you can let it go? Yeah that's what I thought.

Anyway, I'm sick and really don't care enough about this as I don't really have a reputation to protect and well, in all honesty just don't care to correct all you're incorrect facts so I'm off to the shower.

Interesting to note that Adam kept inviting me to post in his threads and to take any discussions about NERD and the albino ball python to his thread. I wonder why he is now saying to drop it....I wonder what changed his mind.

Oh yeah....he did not realize he would tell one too many lies and end up getting caught in his web of lies.

HerpVenue

11-11-2003, 12:51 AM

whoops....sorry all that was supposed to be on the Adam thread...I had the wrong window up

Classic Dum's

11-11-2003, 02:58 AM

hmm.. didn't see this coming... now.. the focus is not on the situation at hand.. which is Jules_'s original post. If you want to have an arguement with Adam.. why do it on here? Adam seems to be on this thread attempting to help Jules_. What are you doing Jason? I am showing that Derek is noit a trustworthy person within a thread that has his name in the title pur the rules set forth but Rich Z. Sometime in doing that a thread does change course a little bit. I am sure if you ermail Rich he will tell you what I have done is correct by his rules. The fact that Derek for over a year looked the other way and even came here and backed up Adams lies shows a good amount into what kind of person he really is.

Jules did you atempt to buy this animal from him through here or ksnake? If ksnake I would let Derek know that he better make good by a certain date or you will follow through with there complaint procedure, How did you pay for the animal? Check, postal money order? Credit card? If you paid via postal money order on that same date you need to follow through with a complaint with the postal service. How did you pay and what site was the ad on you atempted tp deal with him through?

Classic Dum's

11-11-2003, 03:04 AM

Ok I reread your post, it was ksnake and money order what kind of money order? Was it a postal? If so set a date make derek aware that you must either recieve you animal but that date or you will file a complaint with ksnake in an atemt to get him tossed from there and also follow through with a complaint with the postal service. If you mailed him a postal money order and he doesnt make good and you follow through he could be federally screwed. Do that shot me an email and Ill hook ya up with someone whos used the postal sytem to get results before and well see what we can do. Classic@dumerils.com

Adam Block

11-11-2003, 03:26 AM

Maybe before you go picking out a lawyer to file fed charges you could try something less dramatic and give him a call.

He works most days till 4pm and whiles he's been out of work for his ankle I think he's back now.

Some of the trouble you might have had was he lives a little outside of Tucson and has a Cricket phone, they offer mostly local service and I don't think his phone rings at his house. Since he hasn't been at work much he may just not be getting your calls.

Either way give it a few days and get in touch with him. He's never scammed anybody I know of and I would highly doubt he's going to start with you.

Jules_

11-11-2003, 08:41 AM

The long lost Derek speaks!

Derek emailed me this morning. We are trying to work things out. Hopefully this whole matter will be resolved and this thread can end.

ScottsReptile -- Great to see you again!

longissima

11-11-2003, 08:59 AM

Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:49:38 EDT
From: <SrpntHntr@aol.com>
[ Add to Address Book | Block Address | Report as Spam ]
To: <longissima@excite.com>
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.1 Proven Red Mole Kingsnakes and 2.2 '03 offspring for s...

Just checking to see the status of the snake deal. I will be in and out this week so I'll have them shipped to the shop. Address there is
Exotic Pets
1551 s. 151st st. w.
goddard, ks. 67052
Thanx, and let me know when to expect them/ tracking number.

Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:09:32 -0400
From: Derek -- Sonoran Reptile <longissima@excite.com>
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To: <SrpntHntr@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.1 Proven Red Mole Kingsnakes and 2.2 '03 offspring for s...

Hey Scott,

I did receive the money order on Saturday. I may not be able to ship the animals until Wed. for Thurs. delivery. I will ship them to the address in your previous e-mail. I sprained my ankle at work on Friday and have been on cruthches ever since -- the reason for the delay. I will let you know the tracking info as soon as they are shipped out. Thanks again! Derek

Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:17:14 EDT
From: <SrpntHntr@aol.com>
[ Add to Address Book | Block Address | Report as Spam ]
To: <longissima@excite.com>
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.1 Proven Red Mole Kingsnakes and 2.2 '03 offspring for s...

OK, no response from you, I'll contact Jeff at Kingsnake and get the proper "adjustments" made to your account. The fun part of this is that I have the receipt from the Postal Money Order I paid you with and MAILED to you. The emails that acknowledge your receipt of said payment and your admission that the animals were not sent. This constitiutes Mail Fraud, a federal charge as I found out in a previous similar situation. I didn't order these animals so that I could waste a bunch of time getting your account cancelled and file criminal charges against you but I am not going to set back and take this in the butt. If all else fails I WILL be in Tucson soon and WILL be paying a visit to 9095 Oracle, looks like an apartment complex, I wonder what their rules on reptiles are there? Keep ignoring this and see how it turns out for you. I had this happen in the past and it seems that when you incur federal charges they follow up a lot better than local authorities do. If you have anything in your name, have a job, or pay taxes they WILL find you. It is definately in your favor and mine if you contact me and resolve this situation. I don't want to waste any more time on this and you don't want to deal with the rammifications of not following through with your contract.

Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:21:23 -0400
From: Derek -- Sonoran Reptile <longissima@excite.com>
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To: <SrpntHntr@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.1 Proven Red Mole Kingsnakes and 2.2 '03 offspring for s...

Hey,

First, I would like to apologize for not being able to gt in touch with you sooner. I was told by my roommate that you had tried to call this past weekend before you left. I had no idea that someone could have picked the snakes up for you or I would have told him which ones were yours. I was at the hospital at the time and was being fitted for a cast. I have not been able to walk for about 2 weeks now and it got to the point where I had no choice but to go. I would like to be able to make this up to you by sending you the animals you paid for plus some other that I have not posted for sale yet. All of the snakes you have purchased are doing well and I will have them shipped to you when you return from your trip. If you need to contact me before then, me cell number is 520-808-8596. I understand your frustration as I have been ripped off before by some scumbag in Indiana. I really don't like being threatened by anyone, which was the tone of your last e-mail, but I do undrestand the fact that people are out there that rip other people off. If you really have any questions about shady dealings with people you should check out faunaclassifieds.com and look at the Board of Inquiry in the Reptiles section. I is a very helpful tool on finding out who is who in the world of reptile hobbyists. Anyway, please let me know when to send the animals and I will get them to you. Once again, I apologize, but rest assured that I am NOT here to scam you out of anything. Take care. Derek

Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile
520-544-0801

Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:27:42 -0500
From: Derek -- Sonoran Reptile <longissima@excite.com>
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To: <SrpntHntr@aol.com>
Subject: would like to send you your snakes

Hello,

I would love to send you the snakes you paid for and a few extras to make up for your lost time. Please get in touch with me. Derek
520-808-8596

Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile
520-544-0801

Sat, 8 Nov 2003 20:51:37 EST
From: <SrpntHntr@aol.com>
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To: <longissima@excite.com>
Subject: Re: would like to send you your snakes

I just got back to Wichita, tried to contact you while i was in Az. it's now 27 degrees out here, great shipping weather. I'd like a refund.

Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:26:13 -0600
From: Exotic Pets <Exoticpets@cox.net>
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To: <longissima@excite.com>
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.1 Proven Red Mole Kingsnakes and 2.2 '03 offspring for s...

Derek,

It's time to either return the $280 or ship the snakes. Please email and let me know which you plan to do.

Julie
Exotic Pets
316-250-1321

Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:22:39 -0500
From: Derek -- Sonoran Reptile <longissima@excite.com>
[ Add to Address Book | Block Address | Report as Spam ]
To: <Exoticpets@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.1 Proven Red Mole Kingsnakes and 2.2 '03 offspring for s...

Hey Jules,

I received an e-mail a couple of days ago from SRPNTHNTR@aol.com requesting a refund for those snakes. I e-mailed him about 2 weeks ago explaining that I apologize for the delay and inconvenience and that I would send you extra animals to make up for your lost time. I sent another e-mail to the same address about 4 days ago and just got a reply back demanding a refund. I have been taking care of the snakes you cared for and have some others that I would like to send you for the inconvenience I have caused you. I sent my home and cell number to the AOL e-mail address and I have not received a call or message from anyone. I just got through reading your post on the BOI. It seems that a few of the "regulars" are jumping on anyone who is associated with Adam Block. I have known Adam for 6 years, he used to live in AZ before moving to S. Carolina. He has not made many friends on the BOI and my association with him as a friend apparently labels me as "guilt by association". Anyway, you partner (srpnthntr) did not tell me he wanted the reptiles shipped to anyone after he left for Phoenix. If I would have known I could have shipped them to you, then I would have and would not have kept them for so long. I will ship your animals to you plus the extras I promised if you would like, but you might want to talk to your partner first. Please let me know what you want. Shipping in cold weather is not a problem for me as I use insulated boxes with heat packs. Live arrival is always guaranteed. If you need references, I will send you 50-100 of those as well. I hope this clears things up. Derek
My cell number is 520-808-8596. Please leave a message with your phone number.

Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile
520-544-0801

These are the events up until now. I am glad to see the folks with no lives are still playing Mulder and Scully. Good luck with that, I hope you are able to change the world with your infinite wisdom. I just wonder sometimes if some of you actually HAVE lives or are just pretending.

longissima

11-11-2003, 10:03 AM

So you sent money October 8 and he says he received it but that was the last timeyou heard from him. No e-mails no nothing. I will have you know......he should have at least e-mailed you. I know for a fact his inernet is still working He was online on the 28 and 29 of October. But he did not contact you....not even by e-mail through this site.

May want to reread the dates of the e-mails posted. I e-mailed them twice, Oct 18, Nov. 6 with no reply until Nov. 8. Facts are great to use.....if you have ALL of them.

Most of the things you "uncover" I would have told you over the phone had you ever been man enough to pick it up and call.

Umm......Rich if you are trying to quote me, you may want to check yourself as this was not from any post of mine.

Oh and dont feel sorry for me all is well here. You need to be feeling sorry for yourself and what could be coming down on you and possibly your buddy there as well.

LOL.....If there are warning level points handed out for misuse of the forums, then there should be "drama queen" points handed out for quotes like that! How's everything at the crime lab Jason?

And finally, Ritchie, you know who I am as we have corresponded on another thread recently and I would just like you to know that you are completely wrong about Adam's fictitious dead ball python. I was there when he received it, I watched it eat, I watched it deteriorate, and I saw the aftermath. If you would like to discuss this further, you know my #.

This is a quote from me. An actual fact from Jason. Very good!

Now take note to how Derek flat out lies. He claims" Richie was wrong about Adams fictitious ball" he says he was there when ADAM(he) reiceved it. He says he watched it deteriorate, well of course he did the ball python was his.

This is a quote from Jason. This is not a fact. The ball python was never mine as there is no way in hell I could afford a $2500 snake. You may want to go back to the original thread a year ago and check the name on the necropsy report. This process is called "fact finding". Give it a try. Does the name SHOUSE ring a bell to any of you Adam Block groupies? It should.

But in this case it says Shouse/ball python and the report is signed by Bradley.
To me that means Bradley is the Vet and Shouse is the owner

Those are quotes from Richie Luna after seeing the necropsy report which can be viwed here:http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12613&perpage=5&highlight=dead%20albino%20ball&pagenumber=45

This was also posted by Mr. Luna.

As for me lying about it not being mine, it never was my snake and my quote of being there when Adam received is the exact truth. As is the rest of my previous quote. You wonder why I did not respond at all to the 58 pages of thread about NERD and Adam.....take a look at this thread and then get back to me.

HerpVenue

11-11-2003, 10:41 AM

Umm......Rich if you are trying to quote me, you may want to check yourself as this was not from any post of mine.
I was quoting and responding to Adam.

As for me lying about it not being mine, it never was my snake and my quote of being there when Adam received is the exact truth. As is the rest of my previous quote. You wonder why I did not respond at all to the 58 pages of thread about NERD and Adam.....take a look at this thread and then get back to me.

WONDERFUL.
It is not your snake either. It is not adam's snake either.
But it stayed with you. Then it stayed with adam. Then it died. Then adam cried about it. And here you are telling parts of the truth.......that way you can say the only words out of your mouth are the truth. Obviously we are not going to get the whole truth.
If we can get the whole truth........these pages would not be so long.

Okay. It is not your snake. It is not Adam's snake. Did it even exist?
And who is SHouse? Because now you are insinuating that it is his. Where the hell is he and why does he not post?

What a tangled web we weave when we first.......................you know the rest of the quotes.

This process is called "fact finding". Give it a try. Does the name SHOUSE ring a bell to any of you Adam Block groupies? It should. We would love to give fact finding a try. But it seems you and Adam Block are so close that you speak the same.

When Adam block was giving dates.....on one post he says over 3 days....in another post he says over 7. When confronted he says 7 is technically over 3.

Reminds of of a story. I would go to church....Pick up a bulettin and go out. When My Mom asked if I went to church......I can Totally tell the truth and say yes I went to church ;)

Sort of like if you never feed your ball python. Someone can come along and ask how he feeds. You can totally tell the truth and say he never refused a meal ;)

Now how about telling the rest of us the real story. You and Adam Block are dancing so well around it.

HerpVenue

11-11-2003, 10:55 AM

By the way Jules,
What is up with that?
By not presenting all the facts....the story gets quite askewed.
Looks to me like he did try to contact you.

Jules_

11-11-2003, 11:16 AM

I didn't get involved in this until Oct 13th. That's the day that Scott forwarded me all the emails and asked me to call Jeffie B and see what could be done. I know that Scott can be difficult and quick to anger, so I decided to check into it myself before posting anything. On Oct 14th, I called Derek myself and left a message on his machine asking him to please call me. I never saw the Oct 18th email. As was said in the posts, Scott has been out alot and in AZ. Scott called and got Derek's room mate.
Scott also called while in AZ. I didn't do or hear anything more until I realized that it was now Nov and still nothing. I emailed Derek and posted here, then told Scott what I had done. Scott then told me "Yeah, he emailed me a couple of days ago, I asked for my money back, we'll see what happens" I hate when he asks me to get involved with something and then doesn't keep me current with events. Even still, Oct 18th to Nov 6th is a long time to go without hearing anything when Scott and I both are calling and leaving messages for him to call. As for his posting that he didn't know where to ship the snakes, Derek posted the Oct 6th email himself from Scott saying that we wanted the animals shipped to the store because Scott wouldn't be around. I do stand corrected about the last date of contact, I had never received the Oct 18th email. Also I misquoted the date it was Thursday, October 09, when Scott received this email:
Hey Scott,

I did not get the animals out on Wed. I can ship them today for Friday delivery if that is OK with you. I apologize for the delay but I am still unable to move around much without crutches and today is my first attempt to drive anywhere. I missed your call this morning -- sleeping--, but you did not leave a number to contact you. If you get this e-mail, please call back or let me know that Friday is OK for you. Thanks.

Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile
520-544-0801

I have emailed Derek the following (for anyone keeping up)

From: Exotic Pets [mailto: Exoticpets@cox.net]
To: longissima@excite.com
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:34:48 -0600
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.1 Proven Red Mole Kingsnakes and 2.2 '03 offspring for s...

Hi Derek
I am glad that you emailed me. I did see the email from Scott to you saying to please ship the snakes to the shop (the Exotic Pets address) because he wouldn't be around. I called the number you gave on the email twice, leaving messages for you to call me. The AOL account is Scott's, and I don't get to check that one, only when he forwards me the emails. He never told me of an email received 2 weeks ago. I also said on the BOI that I would publicly apologize to you if you make things right. I still hold to that. I understand how lines can be crossed. Some of those snakes were for Scott, some are for the store. Go ahead and ship the animals to Exotic Pets, 1551 S. 151st St. W, Goddard, KS 67052. EMail me the tracking number and arrival information. Scott is back from AZ, but has been very busy trying to catch up for being gone for so long. Send further emails to me, I'll forward them on to Scott. As far as the BOI is concerned, I do judge people by what the do, not who they know.
Thanks for the email
Julie
Exotic Pets
316-721-0444

At this time we have agreed that Derek will ship the animals on Thur for Friday delivery. If this happens, I will apologize for any grief I have caused Derek but do encourage him to return phone calls to avoid these kinds of posts from people in the future (I see that I am not the only one that has had problems reaching him in the past).

Classic Dum's

11-11-2003, 11:35 AM

Jules I must say it looks as though you or your partner is in the wrong here. If there is something you are not telling us you need to. Because as it stands it appears as though he has atempted to make good with you.

As for me lying about it not being mine, it never was my snake and my quote of being there when Adam received is the exact truth. So did you witness him receive it 3 days later
I was trying to relay that the snake was in my care three days after it was purchased. ???? Or was Fact of the matter is the snake (albino ball) was kept by Derrek Roberts for the first 2 months. After you kept it for two months? Whats the truth??? Were you the one who watched it feed and go down hill because you had it the whole time and it was only returned to Adam upon its death?

He has not made many friends on the BOI Ever stop to wonder why???? Ill tell ya lie after lie after lie after lie. Since we all know Adam cant tell the truth before he gets you tangled any further in his lies why dont you tell us the truth???? You seem to be more inteligent then he is so why not fill us in a staight up no bull[bleep] post of events? This could be ended in a matter of a couple pages if someone was to tell the whole truth but we all know Adam is unable to even tell a partial truth. So what about you? Its not guilt by association at all. If you had that animal as Adam says and allowed Adam to do what he did your as low as he is. Possesion my friend is 9/10ths of the law. So that would be more like guilt by accessory.

Classic Dum's

11-11-2003, 12:32 PM

Oh and the way the report is written up

reference number: 02-7878
shouse, ball python

My vet back home wrote reports like that. On my reports first would be the animals name then the type of animal. So in otherwords had that report been written by my vet "shouse" would be the ball pythons name and of course ball python would be the species. Also it would be a normal ball python. See from my vet it would have looked like this

reference number: 02-7878
shouse(animals name), albino ball python

So personally I dont even believe this vet report belongs to an albino ball so I could care less what it says. Ya some vets do things a Little differant but theres a fairly standard format.
The actual owner of the ball python, name address and phone are the stuff right above the reference number that has been blocked out. The stuff below the reference number that is blocked I got a strong feeling is the animal description. Which if was an albino ball why block it? Theres no vet out there that is going to give an albino animal a neocropsy and overlook the fact its an albino in the descrition. So is it possible for us to see that report unaltered or are we going to get a bunch of excusses? You vet report as it stands carries absolutly no weight. If the owners(Adam) contact info on the report was blocked in an effort to hide where he was living for what ever reason(he doesnt want strangers showing up on his door step, which is understandable) He no lnger lives in AZ that address is outdated and does no one any good. So there should be no fear of posting an unaltered version. But Ill bet we get a bunch of excusses. Because as I said I think that was a normal ball. Also why is the date blocked?

Bringing up the whole vet report makes me wonder. I personally think this was an elborate set up. Nothing in that report shows the animal was albino much less an animal from NERD. The whoel topic was brought up months after the animal supposdly died. The manner the topic was brought up in makes me curious. See when Adam posted that thread he was claiming to want info. Kept on saying he wasnt going to post the breeders name that he didnt want to place blame only wanted to collect info. then bit by bit people helped him out posting info about gout(what he claimed it died of) and bit by bit he slowly starts placing blame on the breeder, without stating his name. He got a bunch of people on his side saying "it looks like the breeder caused it because of the timeline you laid out etc? Then he comes foward and says that he called the breeder and told him he needs to give him half the value of the animal to make the whole deal right. Well then Adam kept stirring the thread till finally Kev posted exposing that he was the breeder this ball suposidly came from.

all the ground work was laid out, Adam posted in a way to draw public support to his side. after he had that called kev, made kev aware that support was on his side and that he could ruin his rep if he didnt pay him off etc. I think all this started months ahead of time, the ball python in the report was a nomral that died of gout. (I think Adam knew what gout was prior to his posting claiming to look for info and that he had caused the gout within that animal because he knew he would need a vet report that said gout and ball python on the same page. I think the reason the date was smeared from the report is because it took Adam longer to kill the animal then he thought it would.Thats all just my opinion and I state it as such but looking at the peices it makes sense. Why wait 3 months to try and collect on an animal that died. It taking that long to inflict gout on the animal and cause it to die to get the vet report he knew he would need if this was going to work makes perfect sense to me.

So whith that Derek why dont you come clean lay the facts as they are and prove me wrong????

elago

11-11-2003, 02:54 PM

In response to this thread, I had a bad experience with SR as well. I bought a pair of black pine snakes from them for 100 shipped, asked what shipper he used and he said Airborne express. The LAST thing I wanted was for him to use airborne of all companies due to numerous bad experiences, and offered to pay him extra to use a different carrier, to which he said don't worry about it. When it came time for the snakes to arrive and I recieved the tracking #, it was none other than- you guessed it- Airborne. I had to LITERALLY track the driver down to get the snakes, all this after EXPLICITY ASKING HIM NOT SHIP VIA AIRBORNE and offering money to use another carrier. To make matters worse, the snakes I recieved were regurgers. Save yourself some time, headaches, and hassle in the future folks. -Eric Lago

Adam Block

11-11-2003, 06:46 PM

Ritchie and Jason

First I'm lying for putting "Sold Out" on my page, then Rich says he's done that too and you drop it.

First you wanna find the facts more then anything so I tell you whom to call, then you decide not to make the calls.

First NERD doesn't send feed card with his animals then I get them posted and while I'm no longer a liar you forget what they say.

First Kevin can do no wrong, then we see feed card showing very underfed snakes and you forget about those too.

I have no posts in here with respect to the care of my snakes other then the one from Jason that was worked out but I still have to be the reason the snake died and not the guy proven to give his snakes poor care.

First the vet's Steve House from the Carolina who attended school in AZ then you don't know then it's the name of the snake that died?

Yeah okay you guys have an excellent track record of uncovering facts.

Derek, I'll tell you what to do to make Internet groupies go away!

POST YOUR PHONE NUMBER! Either one could call us but we're dealing with a immature wanna be head banger and a recluse so they will stay hidden and well protected behind the keyboard.

Jason doesn't have the social skill to carry on a phone conversation so he WILL NEVER CALL! Ritchie doesn't even have a number on his site where he picks up a phone because he can't deal with things unless he's able to twist/spin your written words.

Neither of these misfits are looking for facts, I've been telling Ritchie to pick up a phone for a year and there's always an excuse! Excuse after excuse after excuse! What's it this time Ritchie? Too busy, I lie too much? Oh Oh maybe I'm not worth it. JOKE!

Adam Block

11-11-2003, 07:16 PM

Eric, I just want to make sure you know this but you said:

the snakes I recieved were regurgers.

I've had only a few of these but the ones I've dealt with you could have fed a snickers and they wouldn't regurg. I've never seen one with any issue like that unless you're just feeding WAY too large of meals.

I only wanted to point that out because I would bet a large amount of money those were from John Ginter and I find it hard to believe his stock would have any issues. You're 100% sure these snakes were regurging and you weren't feeding too large of meals?

Also, do you have any idea what Tucson is like for heat? Did you care more about the health of the snakes or who they were shipped by? Some parts of Tucson don't do well with some shippers. FedEx had a noon pickup deadline by me and UPS I don't deal with. Sometimes there are issues there you don't see or understand. Did Derek say he would refund the money if they were dead when you got them? That should have been your only worry.

salito718

11-11-2003, 07:41 PM

OMFG

WTF

we are now setting up straw men all over the BOI.....

its getting so ridiculous reading about everyone and their personal dislike/vandettas against Adam.. come on guys, give it a rest, this is the 3rd thread i have read today where you guys once again bring up the the same damn tired story...please give it a break already, it really is so childish...............

Al Nunez

longissima

11-11-2003, 08:03 PM

Umm.....I am not sure who Eric Lago is but I did sell a pair of black pinesnakes to Joanne Strayham of Oxford, MS in early Sept. 2003. I have never dealt with Eric and am wondering where he fits into this. Everything "he" said about Airborne and me shipping with them is 100% correct. I would have loved to have shipped them via UPS but a friend at work had UPS open a box he had shipped to him with a apir of reticulated pythons in it. UPS decided it would be the best interest to the general public to call the federal wildlife department and have them taken away. FedEx sucks, so they are out. I take full responsibility for having to "chase down the driver" as I had to do that with UPS about a month ago.

Anyway, I guess E. Lago is the person who signed for the snakes arriving but all receipts and e-mails were made to Joanne Strayham. I am attaching the bill of sale, the airborne airbill and the page that tracked the shipment at www.airborne.com.

I never heard from either of "them" about any regurging and would have refunded "them" their money. Never recived a call or an e-mail about the regurging. I have shipped snakes to people who will take them out of the box, stick the snake(s) in a rubbermaid and try to feed them 15 minutes after receiving them! Then I get an e-mail or a call saying they are not feeding! I would guess and say that stress may play a part in this, but it is only a guess. I am wondering if this is what happened (if it happened). Anyway, here are the attachments I promised:

Link to Airborne.com for tracking info. (http://sigpod.airborne.com/sigbynbr.asp?shipmentnumber=5031972396)

I will include the bill of sale attachment in the next post.

longissima

11-11-2003, 08:11 PM

This is the airbill pertaining to Jonne Strayham. I totally agree with him/her not buying anything from me again as I would do the same thing. I just have a problem with, after 2+ months hearing about how they were rugurgiating from someone whom I have never dealt with. Don't buy from me or recommend me to anyone, fine. But don't come out of the woodwork a couple of months later with a claim of a sick animal I sent to "you". It would have been nice to know when it actually happened. And if you do have a legitimate complaint, please use the actual name of the person that I sold the snakes to.

Here is the airbill, the bill of sale was posted in my last post:

HerpVenue

11-11-2003, 10:02 PM

Eric,
perhaps you should have contacted him about them regurging.
The BOI should not be the first place people should find out that you are having a problem with an animals you bought off of them.
They should here it from you by phone or by e-mail. Then they should be given the chance to make things right.

You can't just come here and say......SURPRISE...he sent me regurgers.

elago

11-12-2003, 01:04 AM

Well if pinkies are too big for 2 month old pines (2 feet) then maybe you are right. Every pinky they did take was regurged within 24 hours. I tried live and frozen all to no avail.
Also the reason I asked for anyone besides airbourne to ship was because I was worried about the snakes health. Airbourne to this day can not find my home and I have had many problems with various other shipments shipped through them. When I asked him to Please use ANYONE but AIRBORNE he agreed (I even offered to send extra money if needed). After agreeing he still used Airborne. I happened to chase down the right truck(on its way back to their station - an hour and a half away). Had that truck not happened to have my package they would not have arrived on time and probably not the next day unless I decided to drive to pick them up. I should not have to chase down a truck to try to find my reptiles....especially after explaining the situation to Derek and him agreeing. I have even had a representative ask (on a previous experience) if she should just have the package destroyed since they were not going to bring it out to my house the day it was supposed to arrive. If having a company ask if they should destroy my reptiles is not enough reason to not want them to even be near my packages I don't know what is.
Also I try to avoid receiving dead snakes to begin with. The snakes are my top priority, not being able to get my money back for snakes that arrive dead (which can always be avoided ......
especially when one uses cool packs during hot months). Call me silly but I care about my (& all) animals.

jstrayham

11-12-2003, 01:33 AM

Look, Eric is my boyfriend. We live together and are business partners (msreptilianhobbyists). While all the emails were sent to my account there is nothing that we are not partners in. He was very interested in the pines so I wrote Derek about them. After he wrote me back Eric & I decided to get them. We did not try to feed them 15 mins out the box. We gave them time to acclimate to their new home (about 3 days). After they regurged the 1st time we thought maybe they still needed more time. Then we waited a few days to try again, but within 24 hours they had regurged again. We continued to have hope and fed them at different times during the day ( day, at end of the day, night...ect) still to no avail. The point is not that Eric posted here. The point is that WE purchased the animals and that WE could not get them to keep a meal down no matter how hard we tried or how many different ways we tried. Eric did write Derek after chasing down the truck to let him know that they had "arrived" and what had happened, including the fact that we were not happy that he used Airborne against OUR explicit wishes. Eric posted OUR experience and his name not being on the receipt means nothing. If anyone would like to speak to me (or Eric) about it, ANYONE is more that welcome to give me (or him) a call 662 513 0830. No matter what is said here, nothing changes what OUR experience was when dealing with SR. I think that's what the BOI is here for, isn't it?
Thanks So Much. Joanne Strayham

Classic Dum's

11-12-2003, 01:49 AM

But don't come out of the woodwork a couple of months later with a claim of a sick animal I sent to "you". It would have been nice to know when it actually happened. Ya it would have been nice of them. It also would have been nice of you to ship the snake per their request. I am another person who cant get airborn they come out where I live 2 days a week had it been me I would have been to pissed to ever contact you again as well. The nearest airborn facility to me is 3hrs away. I have atempted to buy from people several times who only shipped airborn, when they told me they wouldnt ship any other way, that was the end of it. If you told them youd ship via another currier and then shipped airborn anyway they have every right to crawl out of the woodwork after two months.

jstrayham

11-12-2003, 02:04 AM

Also in response to Ritchie Luna's remarks

"The BOI should not be the first place people should find out that you are having a problem with an animals you bought off of them.
They should here it from you by phone or by e-mail. Then they should be given the chance to make things right.

You can't just come here and say......SURPRISE...he sent me regurgers."

After dealing with someone who had a blatent disreguard for our wishes we did not wish to deal with him again. We had hopes of getting them to eat. When if finally became apparent that they were not going to keep anything down it was a few weeks after the purchase. There is no clause for regurgers. The animals were sold to us as feeding and they were not. Other than that problem(a huge one) upon arrival they seemed fine. Eric and I are sharing our experience relative to the thread, time doesn't change what happened and it is our perogative to make it public no matter how much time has passed. I saw no reason to alert him to the fact that they were not feeding. I took it as a learning experience and left it at that. All we are trying to do is not make anyone else learn the hard way. I expect the animals I buy to be as represented and not have to get a replacement pair/refund. I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden the snakes decided to just start regurging once they arrived at our home, but I suppose it is possible. I have had many finicky eaters. By the way I don't think YOU can tell me (or anyone else) what I can and can not say here about our experiences. Have a Great Day! Joanne Strayham

jstrayham

11-12-2003, 02:07 AM

And I reiterate...

Originally posted by Classic Dum's
Ya it would have been nice of them. It also would have been nice of you to ship the snake per their request. I am another person who cant get airborn they come out where I live 2 days a week had it been me I would have been to pissed to ever contact you again as well. The nearest airborn facility to me is 3hrs away. I have atempted to buy from people several times who only shipped airborn, when they told me they wouldnt ship any other way, that was the end of it. If you told them youd ship via another currier and then shipped airborn anyway they have every right to crawl out of the woodwork after two months.

Thank you Jason so very much for making my point....exactly.
J. S.

Adam Block

11-12-2003, 02:40 AM

I like FedEx some hate em and love UPS. Fact of the matter is sometimes the company you like and the one that works best on the other end aren't the same. For me I had no other option but FedEx to ship with, if snakes got there dead after somebody asking for a different shipping method I would have refunded them as I'm sure Derek would have you.

As for the regurg issue, what did the vet say? Is there a reason for it or are you saying it's just genetic?

Those are John Ginter stock and of some of the best stock you can find in the Country. I just want to find out if you're regurg issue is with Derek's care or John's stock that why I ask what the vet said.

You always have to be sure to ask as sometimes you get those really cheap people who won't take a regurging snake to the vet and they just keep feeding it till it dies.

Classic Dum's

11-12-2003, 02:52 AM

Is there a reason for it or are you saying it's just genetic? Adam come on like it really has anything to do with anyones stock. I have never heard of snakes gentically puking. Are you saying there are het for pukers out there?
Let it go Adam

Adam Block

11-12-2003, 04:35 AM

As for the Adam Block/Ritchie Luna/ Jason Sweigart "love triangle" I think that all three of you better start ignoring each other. Pronto.

I'll agree with this and be the first to step up to the plate and be an adult. No more comments from to either of them unless it's positive and about a thread we're focused on helping with.

Can you two also be adults about this?

Let's show we can all have some respect for the man who's put this site together.

If you honestly wanna know the facts call me. I won't BS you, I white lied about some things and I'll tell them to ya. Most is the truth but where it isn't I'll fill you in.

HerpVenue

11-12-2003, 07:46 AM

I'll agree with this and be the first to step up to the plate and be an adult. No more comments from to either of them unless it's positive and about a thread we're focused on helping with.

Can you two also be adults about this?

Let's show we can all have some respect for the man who's put this site together.

If you honestly wanna know the facts call me. I won't BS you, I white lied about some things and I'll tell them to ya. Most is the truth but where it isn't I'll fill you in

oh nice throw it off the darn track again.
I think we were discussing snakes.
Will you please get over yourself and quit whinning about people ganging up on you.
It is getting tiring.

Back to the snakes.
Although he may have shown a blatant disregard for your wants and needs, it is still proper to contact him directly. Just because he showed disregard towards you does not make it right when you do it towards him. Some things can be worked out privately.

elago

11-12-2003, 12:05 PM

To quote "TheGhost"
"As for the regurg issue, what did the vet say? Is there a reason for it or are you saying it's just genetic?"

Of course I took them to the vet, Vet Pets in Memphis TN who's a reasonably competent reptile vet. They could find nothing wrong. We tried everything, separating them, feeding them at night/day warm/cool times of the day, everything.

"Those are John Ginter stock and of some of the best stock you can find in the Country. I just want to find out if you're regurg issue is with Derek's care or John's stock that why I ask what the vet said."

I don't care where the snakes came from. They couldn't keep a meal down AFTER BEING REPRESENTED AS FEEDING ON ADULT MICE.

"You always have to be sure to ask as sometimes you get those really cheap people who won't take a regurging snake to the vet and they just keep feeding it till it dies."

I won't post my comment on what you've said here lest I get banned.

They were represented as feeding and were not. He promised to use a different carrier and he did not. This is my experience. After I personally ran the truck down to get the snakes I sent him (and yes I NOT Joanne) an email detailing our displeasure in dealing with the company. I told him "Thanks for the snakes, and we'll NOT be doing business again - Eric Lago". After an email like that what do I look like writing 3 or more weeks later saying "Uh, there's a problem". I'm not here to squabble pettily, merely making my experience public with Derek of SR IN RELATION TO other people having a bad experience with them. I mean no offense to anyone who's read any of my or my g/f's post. Information is two things- Free and Priceless. Have a great day.

longissima

11-12-2003, 12:13 PM

In response to Joanne and Eric and their problem with me, I do not deny that I did wrong by sending the snake Airborne when they explicitely asked not do so. On the other hand, if shipping reptiles was not a huge pain in the A$$ to begin with, it probably would not be a problem. When you have to hide the fact that there are live animals inside a box that you are shipping, pray to God that no one at the shipping company finds that out and hope they arrive alive 3000 miles away, it tends to become tiresome. Some companies only allow turtles, some don't allow any animals, some only ship to certain zip codes on certain day, some don't GUARANTEE next day arrival (or at least morning arrival), and sometimes it just depends on....???? Who knows? If it wasn't like pulling teeth to ship reptiles sometimes, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. I had UPS put the wrong address on an airbill twice(the package was being shipped TO me). The first time I had to call UPS and correct their address mistake. They told me the package would be delivered the next day. Well after driving around Tucson in August all day one day, the snake was well done by the time I received it the next day. The person I puirchased this snake from said he would take care of it and he did. When he shipped the replacement animals, UPS did the exact same thing!! Shipped to the wrong address. I thought "E." means east, not west. And since there was not a "W." address to deliver to, I had to call them back. This time I had to run down the UPS driver 3 hours after they were supposed to deliver it. Fortunately the snakes were alive, but what a pain in the groin. To make a long story short, shipping reptiles is not an exact scienc and is becoming worse since 9-11.

I guess it would have been nice if Ms. Strayham would have let me know about the regurging as I would have refunded their money or at least paid the vet bill. I sold Brandon Weik of Summit Reptiles in Phoenix a green tree python 3-4 years ago. He came down to Tucson to look at it and I told him it was an import that I had in my collection for about a year. It never refused a meal and was in good shape. He was worried about it being an import so I told him that I would guarantee the animals health and if you had any problems, I would give him a refund. More than a month after he purchased her, he called and told me that she had died. I was surprised to hear this as she was perfectly healthy (as far as I knew, she had never been to the vet). I told him that I would stick to my word and he would be given a refund. It took me a couple of month to come up with the money but I saw him at the IRBA show in San Diego and gave him his refund. Point is, all you have to do is tell me or ask me to work with you and I will. It's that simple. If you would like to contact Mr Weik his number is 602-708-3091. Or brandon@summitreptiles.com.

As for Jason's response:

If you told them youd ship via another currier and then shipped airborn anyway they have every right to crawl out of the woodwork after two months.

Yes, they have the right to do so, but if they were so "horrified" that they had puking snakes and that they had to chase down the Airborne driver, why not just demand a refund? What do you do when you buy a TV from Best Buy and it doesn't work? Do you wait 2 months and then take an ad out in the local paper about how the TV was broken when you bought it and that you would never reommend their crappy company to anyone? Or do you take the broken TV back to the store and get a refund?

I refer back to the subject line of my post: "Ask and ye shall receive".

elago

11-12-2003, 12:35 PM

Simple. I shouldn't have to. If the animals were flawless and feeding as sold and represented then why should we have to? I'm not here to attack you, merely relating my experience. I wanted the snakes, and they were darn fine animals in my opinion. This is less about the animals and more about the service. Externally they were a fine set of pines in my opinion, and I'll not deny that. As we posted last night, there's no clause for regurgers. They showed up alive and alive we tried to keep them. They would not have showed up alive had I not personally chased down the driver. And, to your comments about having to "hide the fact that there's a reptile in the box" if you fear some legal ramification from the state of AZ or a shipping company then why do you ship in the first place? If anyone wants to deal with SR in the future feel free, I'm not knocking the fact that the pines were externally fine, and not saying I'm not in the wrong for not contacting him about the problem. What I AM saying is after getting so worked up and mad to have sent the email saying that I wouldn't be contacting him again for any reason, that I took it as a learning experience. Everyone here can see that I'm relatively new to the BOI, and all I'm doing is making my experience public. If I had been a memeber at the time I would have posted about it then. I have never even once called you a bad guy, merely relayed our experience which is relative to the thread. Perhaps it could have been worked out a month after sale (which I DOUBT honestly), but since it was not it's still my perogative to make a public post of our experience. I haven't even preluded in any way to calling you any kind of rip-off. We got the snakes as promised with a little work on our end. I just think it's a little fishy to have 2 regurging snakes show up at the same time as neither would keep a meal down of any size. I hope you ship all the snakes you sell, that they get there without problems, and others have better experiences than we did, and I'm not trying to attack your credibility in any way as a businessman. Perhaps it's your fault, perhaps not, but this doesn't change the end results. -Eric Lago

Classic Dum's

11-12-2003, 12:39 PM

Eric pay no mind to Adam lately he has decided to cram both feet down his throat and it must be a little more painful then he anticapated so hes lashing out

On the other hand, if shipping reptiles was not a huge pain in the A$$ to begin with, it probably would not be a problem. Well if its to much a pain in the ass for you then maybe you shouldnt be shipping them. Its not your customers fault you have an attitude towards shipping animals they made a simply request you said you would follow through with and didnt. So knock it off with the excuses, dont blame them or the curriers, this one is solely on you.What do you do when you buy a TV from Best Buy and it doesn't work? Do you wait 2 months and then take an ad out in the local paper about how the TV was broken when you bought it and that you would never reommend their crappy company to anyone? Very poor example, Id take it back and have it replaced but see the differance is I wouldnt be pissed at them because I requested a simple favor of them that they couldnt live up to and follow through with causing me hours of greif worrying and chasing delivery people down. This is just an observation but you dont seem to have any regaurd for the animals. You act like "well if they die who cares Ill just refund your money and all will be ok" thats what your attitude is coming across like, were not dealing in TV's here, to break a tv and refund someones money is no big deal, were talking about living creatures, treat them as such dont treat them and talk about them like they are an apliance that can be discarded or distroyed at will and as long as your refunbd their money everything should be ok

Like I said thats just my observation you just come across like your talking about babseball cards or something.

longissima

11-12-2003, 02:20 PM

I do not deny that I did wrong by sending the snake Airborne when they explicitely asked not do so.

So knock it off with the excuses, dont blame them or the curriers, this one is solely on you.

When did I blame the couriers or Eric for my bad judgement? I guess I am the only one who has had any problem with shipping snakes. I was merely venting the fact that shipping snakes is MUCH more difficult now than ever and I am hearing more and more horror stories to that fact.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24175&highlight=FedEx
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11633&highlight=FedEx
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7084&perpage=5&highlight=FedEx&pagenumber=1
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3667&highlight=United+Parcel+Service
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20456&highlight=airborne+express
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3546&highlight=airborne+express
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28836&perpage=5&pagenumber=1
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28832
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26846
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26290
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25314
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25241
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23884
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23924
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21063
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19402
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16140
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15989

Those are few examples of "shipping problems" that were found in the BOI and the general discussion forums. I haven't even started looking through the shipping forum which is here:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=462

This is just an observation but you dont seem to have any regaurd for the animals. You act like "well if they die who cares Ill just refund your money and all will be ok" thats what your attitude is coming across like, were not dealing in TV's here, to break a tv and refund someones money is no big deal, were talking about living creatures, treat them as such dont treat them and talk about them like they are an apliance that can be discarded or distroyed at will and as long as your refunbd their money everything should be ok

Sorry for an example that isn't up to your standards. Maybe I should have used an everyday example that I see at work every day. Say someone buys a puppy from a petstore. This puppy has a 3 day guarantee and a complimentary vet exam to go with it. everything checks out at the vet's office and all is well for the first 72 hours. On the fifth day, the dog stops eating, is listless and continues to deteriorate. On day 7 the puppy ends up dying. So now what? Sit at home and fume, swear, stomp around and curse the name of the place that you bought it from. Do this for 7 more weeks, the go on channel 9 news and go off on the store where you purchased the dog. This way of doing things will get you results. It will result in a one sided view of a situation that could have been resolved by just going back to the petshop that you spent $500 in and asking for help, suggestions, or ANYTHING. Be proactive, not reactive and favorable results will normaly prevail.

As for my animals, you are more than welcome to ome by my place to see their horrid conditions, as well as the 200+ that I take care of everyday at work. I really appreciate the advice, Jason, on how to take care of reptiles, that they are living creatures and the fact that they are not appliances.

For the record, it tore me up that that GTP died. I had to sell most of my collection because a roommate left me with unpaid bills and non-paid rent. She was one of the last ones to be sold.

Like I said thats just my observation you just come across like your talking about babseball cards or something.

You haven't a clue of the dedication to my collection and the animals I care for at work. Nothing but negativity coming from an ignorant person such as your self should be taken at face falue....ignorance.

Classic Dum's

11-12-2003, 03:08 PM

ignorant person such as your self should be taken at face falue....ignorance. No I was simply stating how you were coming across, didnt mean to ruffle your feathers. In any event at least you are a bigger person then your buddy Adam there since you can admit when you are wrong about the shipping deal. Still doesnt explain anthing about the puking nor the covering for Adam on the whole ball python deal. But we know well never get the truth out of either of ya about that must less in a format that elimantes the he said she said factor. So with that take care!

Adam Block

11-12-2003, 03:31 PM

They were represented as feeding and were not. He promised to use a different carrier and he did not.

The feeding issue is over if you ask me. You waited 2 months to say anything. If you were telling us the truth I see no reason at all you wouldn't have gotten a refund.

Can you show us the vet bill/paperwork for taking them in?

I assume they're both dead now as they haven't fed?

Can you post a copy of the email were Derek promised to use another carrier?

If you can't do the above three things I don't think your story holds much water.

I don't want to sound stupid but he's saying the snakes had nothing in the form of a parisite so I see no other reason for them to just up and start regurging when they come from the biggest and best pit breeder in the Country.

Derek how long were the snakes in your care?

jstrayham

11-12-2003, 03:51 PM

Pesonally I couldn't give a crap what YOU think. The whole issue is over. I didn't want to contact him so I didn't, end of story. I have learned it is better to stay away from people who lie and frankly piss me off. You can go on and on about our experience, but that's just it. It is OUR experience and not yours. If you would like to call and talk about this in a civil mannar (if that is possible for you) then do so 662 513 0830. I am home CALL ME!
No they didn't eat, no the vet couldn't help although tried very hard, no the snakes did not live, but I am sure that you would have had the "magical cure" to save them since you seem to have all the answers to transactions you were not involved in. Just because we decided to post -once again-OUR experience .. not yours.. you want to try to make us look bad, well sorry to say, but all you have done is blow a matter of a bad transaction up to show what kind of person you are. As far as I am concerened I will not continue with this petty (yes that is what I think so ALSO another reason I did not contact Derek) post. If you want you have my # so use it. Other than that Eric and I have relayed our experience and will not argue with someone who knows nothing about it. So get a life and take care of your own animals. We take care of ours fine without your help . Thanks and have a great day. Joanne Strayham

longissima

11-13-2003, 12:34 AM

For the record, Ms. Strayham did ask me to use another carrier than Airborne and I did not do so. She is 100% correct when she stated this. I just wish I would have known about them regurging because I live in a city with one of the best reptile vets in the country an a person I am in contact with on a weekly or so basis. I wish I was given the chance to have tried to make the situation, after they had received the snakes, better for all involved. The snakes were in my care for 4-5 weeks and yes, the came from John Ginter and yes they ate everything offered and kept it down. All H2O under the bridge now. I would just like to apologize to both Eric and Joanne for all the crap that they have been through. Just please understand my "flying off the handle" when after 2 months of silence I hear of your situation with the pines being sick and it's too late to do anything for you about it. My sincerest apologies to you both.

jstrayham

11-13-2003, 01:25 AM

All is fine here. It should be stated that we did not give you a chance to make things right, that was our choice. That is not something other people should worry about since we decided not to pursue it. We were only trying to share our experience, not call you a bad guy, since we do not know you personally nor have we ever seen any other animals of yours. We both made the calls
You - who you used to ship
Us- not contacting you with the problem
But they are both calls that you and we made that are in the past.
It has become tiresome trying to explain that it was only our experience. No offense to you and yours. Apology accepted.
Good luck in all your endeavors. Joanne Strayham

ScottsReptiles

11-13-2003, 10:22 PM

Joanne,

So what options did you try to get the snakes feeding again? From what I get from your posts, all you tried was to try to feed during different times during the day, if not multiple times. Maybe I am wrong... atleast.. I hope so..

elago

11-14-2003, 12:05 PM

Perhaps you should have read all the threads that I and Joanne posted Scott, including the trip to the veterinarian. This issue is over with both myself and Joanne, he apologized, we accepted, and we apologize as well for not contacting him to make things better for both parties involved. If you have time to post then you have time to read all relevant information before you do so. As I mentioned before, information is free and priceless. -Eric Lago

ScottsReptiles

11-14-2003, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by elago
Perhaps you should have read all the threads that I and Joanne posted Scott, including the trip to the veterinarian. This issue is over with both myself and Joanne, he apologized, we accepted, and we apologize as well for not contacting him to make things better for both parties involved. If you have time to post then you have time to read all relevant information before you do so. As I mentioned before, information is free and priceless. -Eric Lago

Perhaps I did.. but... I see you took them to a vet.. but.. I see nothing about attempts to get a snake to feeding other than varying feeding times. If a snake is stressed out and regurging.. and you keep trying the same thing.. sounds like you are more to blame then him.. but... maybe I see different information.. who knows.

Jules_

11-14-2003, 09:11 PM

Dereks animals arrived today as promised. All look to be in good health. He sent a few extra animals to make up for the delay in shipping. Once he faxes or emails me the invoice, it will all be done with. Derek seems to be a fair guy and seems concerned whether his customers are happy or not. Except for the lengthy time it's taken to get the animals, I have no complaints.
Thanks Derek.

ScottsReptiles

11-14-2003, 10:00 PM

Thats good to hear! Thanks for the update Jules!

Tacticalmaniac

11-15-2003, 01:28 PM

that your deal was concluded to your satisfaction and it's nice to see someone compensate a customer for their time as well .... but as Jules stated earlier in the thread ... a quick e-mail can save alot of trouble. All the same .... kudos to Derek for the thoughtfulness in additional compensation.

elago

11-18-2003, 11:00 AM

"Perhaps I did.. but... I see you took them to a vet.. but.. I see nothing about attempts to get a snake to feeding other than varying feeding times. If a snake is stressed out and regurging.. and you keep trying the same thing.. sounds like you are more to blame then him.. but... maybe I see different information.. who knows."

And I reiterate, the issue is over. Different times, temperatures, and separating the pair did not resolve their issues. I also covered the cages with sheets to prevent the snakes from EVER seeing either of us in case it was a stress issue. I'm well aware that overfeeding a regurger will kill it. I spaced it out to try every week and every other week, using weanling mice first and then pinks. They ate everything offered and immediately regurged. I have to quote my g/f to end this I guess. "we can take care of our animals just fine without your help". Next time you're in Oxford MS (if ever) you're more than welcome to come by and see what we work with and the quality of their care, on feeding day if you prefer ( that would be on Saturdays). Until then, if your post isn't relevant to the thread and doesn't affect you I ask why you're stirring up dust once it's settled? ONCE AGAIN, THIS WAS OUR EXPERIENCE MADE PUBLIC NOTHING MORE. When you have a pertinent experience to post then do so. If it happened to you, I'm sure you would have had the magic cure all to make them healthy, and if not, you'd have done the same thing- made your experience public. I don't mean any offense, but some things are better left unsaid, your posts being two of them after the issue has been publicly resolved.
-Eric Lago