Neil Gubitz/TampaSnakePit (guud guy) [Archive]

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 12:47 PM

Rozann, I was following the ads on ks last year and saw neil's ads for scarlets for many weeks. At this point in time I did look at what he had just to see what they looked like and he had different pictures of wildcaught snakes. I am fairly certain that he even advertised them as wild caught. It was obvious that they were from the pictures. If you go to fieldherpers.com and go back far enough you will see that several locals from the tampa area specifically and other parts of florida in general,commented on how much habitat destruction there was last year. As I had no idea then that it would be relevant now I did not pay close attention to dates or who posted.

This is not a specific attack on neil, as you seem to think it is, I am merely pointing out the coinsidense of timing that occured and will let you draw your own conclusion which seems to be that neil is involved. Wonder why you immediately jumped to that one, that he is the one responsible?

I am fairly certain that I have built up a reputation for honesty here, in fact, I even stuck up for gubitz on one occasion. There were some insinutations that neil was a direct benifactor of the destruction of habitat and wholesale pillaging of the wild scarlet king population. So, while I, as in me personally, have not said that neil was the one who is responsible for said destruction or the wholesale removal of said scarlet kings, it was put out there that the timing was, shall we say, very coincidental.

Since there are many thousands of posts in the field collecting forum over at fieldherper I am not going to do the digging to find out anything more specific. You are welcome to do so if you want to prove that neil is not, as you so readily assumed, responsible for the aforementioned habitat destruction and kingsnake population decimation.

It's entirely possible he had nothing to do with any of it. After all, anything is possible, right?

Wes Pollock

ms_terese

11-12-2003, 12:48 PM

Anja, glad it went well.

I have to say I'm surprised that you even *had* a deal with Neil! As tight knit as Neil and Upstate are, and as nasty as the situation between you (Elite) and Upstate is, it's amazing you guys trusted each other enough to get through a transaction!

Stardust

11-12-2003, 12:55 PM

Wes, please do not presume to know what I am thinking. I was not thinking that you were personally attaching Neil as you said. I was merely asking questions as I was curious to your thread. When I read it, it gave a very strong indication that you had some facts that perhaps would be beneficial. As you do not I guess it is a moot point.
Was just interested in the topic at hand.

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 01:00 PM

My mistake on your thinking Rozann. The facts are there. Several people from florida who herp regularly made mention that there was more than unusual habitat destruction and much lower than normal numbers of scarlet kings.

neil had a great many of them for sale. All wildcaught from what I can remember.

That's it. Those are the facts. The possibility of relation between the two facts, habitat destruction and low numbers of scarlets along with neil having a large number for sale seems to at least merit consideration.

Wes Pollock

Dennis Gulla

11-12-2003, 02:06 PM

Just to back up Wes' statement.

It is correct that Neil had several wild caught Scarlet kingsnakes for sale throughout the past year.

That is all that I am sure about.

Stardust

11-12-2003, 02:14 PM

Quote:
I am fairly certain that I have built up a reputation for honesty here,

Yes, and I do for what trust you, but I can not speak of everyone on the BOI. And although I know you, others do not know if you can turn out to be a whitefeather, for example, or any of the "good" guys turned "bad". Again, an assumption.

Quote:
"neil had a great many of them for sale. All wildcaught from what I can remember.:
I took the liberty of emailing Neil to ask him, as he would know, he has had a total of three scarlet kingsnakes in the last four years. That is what he wrote back.
To say you have seen his ad for many weeks could just be simply that it took him weeks to sell it. Your ads were up too for a couple of weeks if I remember correctly, you just didn't sell and kept repeating your ad.
Again another assumption. Not fact.
I guess what I am doing now is looking for facts on the boi, not assumptions. You know what they say about the word ASSUME.
The thread was started as a good guy thread, would have been nice to see that without the assumptions and turning into fifty pages.
I did however, like you find it interesting that Anja did buy from Neil, knowing he is associated with Upstate. And according to Anja Upstate is bad bad bad.

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 02:28 PM

neil is a flat out LIAR. He has had more than three different individuals for sale in the last year. There was at least two pairs, four individuals, that he marketed as proven breeders or mated pairs, I don't remember which. There were also some juveniles for sale as well.

I don't know if ks has an archive of adds but if they do and you look you will see that ONCE AGAIN neil HAS LIED to everyone here as well as you.

Let me put a request out there. Some of you read the ads on ks daily. Does anyone recall seeing neil having for sale more than three scarlet kings in the last four years? I think it was a far larger number than four just in the last year.

Yes ads repeat. I have done that myself. But I think you can change the pictures in the ads without changing the text. I'm not positive on that, it's been a while since I had an ad in there and even longer since I changed one that I had set to repeat at set intervals.

There are not a lot of people who sell wild caught scarlet kings because they are notoriously hard to get to feed, much less breed. The babies are even worse. Last year when I saw neil's ads I thought the snakes would make lousy pets and hoped that whoever got them was experianced with finicky lizard eaters that didn't look all that good to begin with. Sometimes you can tell a lot from a picture, as you will remember from the pictures you sent me of the snake and lizard that were both sold to you by neil, both of whom are now very dead. Both of whom, had I seen the pictures before you bought them, I would have strongly recommeded that you NOT buy. Not because it was neil selling them but because they just looked bad, very very bad.

neil is lying to you AGAIN, Rozann.

Wes Pollock

Darin Chappell

11-12-2003, 03:05 PM

Anja,

Glad this worked out for you.

justanja

11-12-2003, 03:28 PM

As far as how many scarlets he had last year I have no clue, i havent been into colubrids for a few years now and just now getting back into them again so I went a long time without reading the colubrid ads.

As far as dealing with Neil because of his "tightness" with Upstate I could care less, business is business. I sent the money via paypal and used our own account for shipping. What was there not to trust here? If he didnt send the animal then it would have been "shame on me" for trusting someone right? He did send the animal and we had a discussion over the phone and he was surprised as well that I had called him. We are wanting to try our hands at breeding scarlets and he happened to have one for sale. Im glad I called him and Im glad I made the purchase, the snake is very nice, he was completely honest about what the snake had eaten for him and how long he had had it. It had eaten a pinky once and refused a pink the next time so he offered an anole that it took. I keep anoles on hand anyways for a pair of green vines my fiance has so that was no big deal to me.

Like Neil said, my money was green and business is business. Thats about all I can say about this deal. It went very smoothly and worked out as it should have.

Cheers!
Anja Buffalo

Rob @ RK Reptiles

11-12-2003, 03:37 PM

Below is an e-mail from Neil that he asked if I would post for him. I will post it for everyone to see.

Also I saw most of the ads that he had advertised for Scarlet's and as I remember they were renewed repeatedly like most of us have to do with animals on KS. This thread was started as a good guy on their dealing and you took it upon yourself to basically attack him and spout your personal feelings about the habitat of the Scarlet Kings which has no business in this thread. While he has pissed off some people in the past you have no proof that he has anything to do with the habitat destruction and decline of numbers of the Scarlet Kings in the Wild other than just selling W/C animals. I doubt very seriously that Neil collected the animals himself as he purchases his animals from others. Also while there are alot of Scarlet Kings taken from the wild every year I have not seen any more than usual advertised for sale. You should see the Wholesalers list every year. They are always listed on their specially during the summer.

Rob.... You're basically my last hope.... I emailed this letter (below)
to Wes, personally, but I don't think he'll have the guts to post it....
I don't want people to think I'm lying and his is the last thread that
will be read.... PLEASE post this for me??

Wes, YOU are a flat out bald faced LIAR.... every animal I've sold since
February has been put on my "Animals Sold Since 02/01/03" section of my
site.... I just went through it and THIS is the FOURTH one I've sold
since then, and NONE before that for at least two years!.... NEVER have
I had an adult pair, or even sold a PAIR at the same time.... you are so
full of it!.... GROW UP!

Neil

....Neil %>))

Neil Gubitz (owner)
Tampa Snake Pit

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 03:51 PM

Yet another lie from gubitz, there is neither now nor has there been anything in my mailbox from neil since the one I got from him where he promised "to make me an example" which was another of his many lies.

Just because you have only sold four doesn't mean that you did not have more that you tried to sell. Perhaps they were traded off or died.

I mentioned the connection because I thought it relevant. You have mentioned that you think it isn't. I'm cool with that. I post my opinion and you post yours. neil can't post his because he is such a liar that he has lost his privedges to post at all here.

I seriously doubt that neil personally, as I don't think he's up to the necessary physical output, collectd these snakes he has for sale. I seriously doubt that he is ignorant of the manner in which there were caught, be they good or bad.

I have no probelm posting anything you send me neil. Even the ones that you TELL me not to. Like the one, the ONLY one you sent me that you promised to make me some sort of example in.

You LIE. Then you LIE about lying. Then you LIE again.

You NEVER sent me the email Rob posted. I still think you have sold, or maybe I should say, had for sale, more than four individual scarlet kingsnakes in the last three years as you told Rozann.

The only reason I even remember that you had these for sale is because they looked to be on death's doorstep while you had them for sale. They were so bad that they stuck in my mind a year later.

It's nice that anja got a good snake from you. I know that every now and then you do sell good and healthy animals. I know that often you sell crap. I know you LIE ALL the TIME.

Wes Pollock

ms_terese

11-12-2003, 04:22 PM

As far as dealing with Neil because of his "tightness" with Upstate I could care less, business is business. I sent the money via paypal and used our own account for shipping. What was there not to trust here? If he didnt send the animal then it would have been "shame on me" for trusting someone right? Anja, don't misunderstand.......I didn't mean that you shouldn't have trusted Neil because of his relationship with Upstate, I was simply surprised that you did. I'm glad the deal went well.

KNOBTAIL

11-12-2003, 04:50 PM

turned into. Someone just posted that a deal went through well, and this has taken 4 pages to discuss the destruction of habitat in the state of Fla, the decrease in the Scarlet King snake population, and who posted what on kingsnake.

The fact is Neil followed through with a sale, the purchaser was satisfied and it has been noted as such. Lets call it a day. JERRY TRESSER

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 04:54 PM

You're right Jerry.

Sometimes I am a tad overzealous. I did try to get back on track with this by pointing out that neil has a time or two sent out good healthy animals.

But he's still a ........... oh never mind.

Wes Pollock

gila7150

11-12-2003, 05:55 PM

Wes,
I was involved in the Fieldherpers thread and personally observed the habitat destruction you're referring to. That incident was in the Apalachicola National Forest and I believe that a lot of the destruction was done by David Evans, a commercial collector from Alabama. I have no idea where Neil gets his WC stock from but I'm fairly certain he wasn't directly responsible for the destruction mentioned in that thread because the ANF is a considerable distance from Tampa.

That being said, WC scarlet kings generally make aweful captives and generally end up costing far more than healthy CB specimens....especially at Neil's prices;)

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 06:10 PM

Chris, you're most likely right. For some reason the pictures of the scarlets neil had for sale and the timing of that thread stuck in my mind. As anyone who has kept tricolors at all knows the scarlet out of the wild is one of the hardest to keep alive. As neil was doing his used car salesman routine with these it bugged me.

To go completely off topic here, once again, he is a predator. He gets the newbies with a flashy website and a slick patter of BS. I just don't like that. Back in "The Day" when I had my shop we had another shop in town that was operated much as neil operates now. Move the animal, make a buck and let the chips fall where they may. A lot of those chips fell into my shop. Parents with upset kids because the snake they bought from the other guy, that was sold as captive bred and guarenteed eating or long term captive, because they knew all the right terms, and then died a withering wasting death, after of course having been sold the entire plethora of Tetra products to medicate and provide vitamins etc, etc, etc was finally brought to me to find out why it died. Then you get into the whole captive bred, captive hatched and long term captive vs. fresh caught import. It never worked out well. Scarlet kings were notorious for this scenario.

Back to the topic at hand. I am glad that anja got a good snake. Since she doesn't care where or who she buys from, as her money is green, I won't bother with my opinion on that, it's not relevant anyway.

Just for your information though anja, it generally takes 2 to 3 years to get a wild caught snake, finicky ones like scarlet kings in particular, to get them in shape to reproduce. It takes about the same to find a nice healthy baby and raise it up yourself.

Wes Pollock

KNOBTAIL

11-12-2003, 09:09 PM

that you seem to have some kind of a hard- on for Neil. I am just curious if you have ever met Neil. From everything that I seem to read that you seem to post always leads the yellow brick road back to Neil. I find it remarkable that you should be so fixated with a simple good guy post req

KNOBTAIL

11-12-2003, 09:13 PM

button and did not finish my thread. Is Neil bothering you in any way. Has he emailed you or screwed you business wise in any way that would cause you to be so caustic on a good guy post. Maybe I am missing something here. JERRY TRESSER

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 09:30 PM

Jerry, what it comes down to is this. neil burned a kid. He knew exactly what he was doing when he did it. No one with as much experiance as he has could NOT have known what shape the rosy boa he sent to her was in. He lied both about it's age and eating habits. Then he sent a replacement lizard to the same kid. There is no way he could have NOT known that the uromastix he sent was on deaths door. I have seen him lead people down that same yellow brick road you speak of by making promises to help them when they need it and then backing out of said promises. Not to mention that he is dishonest in the animals that he sells, or more to the point that he is dishonest in the animals that he sells.

A hard on is the last thing I have for neil, I'll leave that to those of you whose bent that is. I much prefer oreos to old men.

I don't like neil for the reasons I've stated above and in several other threads.

As I also said in this very thread I can, on occasion, be a tad over zealous. I think I was here. I don't think I was wrong though.

I think you may have exagerrated on your yellow brick road analogy, you remember, my posts always leading to neil. If you were to actually read all 500+ of them you would see that most do not involve him at all. I have even stuck up for him when I thought he was wronged. But I do not like him at all.

He has threatened me, called me names, and attempted some lame comebacks both by getting others to post his diatribes and, before he was banned from here for the second time, by trying on his own to win a battle of wits with me which he arrived at unarmed.

I realized that I was, as I have said a few times now, over zealous, and toned it right down and tried to get this back on track.

neil does, on occasion, sell and deliver good animals. However, just as there must be day to appreciate night, he also sells and delivers total crap.

I think I've covered all that needs to be covered in this thread. I am more than willing to continue this discussion in the appropiate place. Feel free to start another thread and make me aware of it.

Wes Pollock

KNOBTAIL

11-12-2003, 09:45 PM

met Neil, nor have you ever conducted business yourself with Neil, but based on information that you have he is basically a dishonest person, dishonest in the animals he sells, and broken his promises.

Now Wes, we dont know each other, and I really dont know Neil. We met once, and I have emailed him on some occassions to attempt to get some information, but what we have here is a potential liability on your part. I would seriously reconsider my threads that seem to drift toward Neil and tone it down. Some of these statements based on what people told you, is not exactly the same as experiencing them yourself. I know, if it were me, and it affected my business, (as it may have affected Neils), you could be in for a lawsuit. What you are dealing with is hearsay. Regardless of what you may think of Neil and his dealings with animals, or the public for that matter. Your attacks are being made on what other people may have said, and we dont know their motives either. Just a thought. JERRY

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 09:51 PM

Jerry, I am well able to think for myself. In order for me to be in a position that neil could take legal action I would have to say something that was not true. So far I have not done that. neil has lied to me. He has sold sick and practically dead animals. This is not hearsay, it is well documented.

While I appreciate you looking out for me, in this case in particular, it is not necessary. If anything, neil should be watching what he says about me in his emails to others in regards to me.

The truth can hurt as neil has found out.

Wes Pollock

KNOBTAIL

11-12-2003, 10:11 PM

does during his business hours with other people, should have no effect on you. Your not loosing money, nor has he stolen from you, and I can assume he has not threatened you in anyway.

If in fact Neil has sold sick and nearly dead animals, its up to the receipient to deal with it. Their are legal remedies for addressing these problems. But this is an old story, as Neil may be one of many in this industry who may conduct business that way. But for you to persue it is another matter. I can assume by your not answering my questions, that you dont know Neil, have never conducted business with Neil, or for that matter of fact may never have even spoken to Neil. These are certainly questions that I would ask if I put you on the stand. Are you basically telling me that because of what others told you, you have taken the helm in letting the herp community know that these are the standards you judge people by! Jerry

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 10:20 PM

My mistake jerry, I thought that when you said you had read my post you actually meant you had read them.

I'll spell it out for you here, in this thread, on this The Board of Inquiry, where opinions based on fact are welcome and often solicited.

I don't know neil in person. I haven't done business with him personally. He id threaten me, which I have now told you at least twice and perhaps three times. Read the entire post and you might just be amazed at how much information is there.

There is VERY little doubt of the herp community, or those who have read, and I mean actually read not just given a cursory glace at, what standards I use. They are neither secret nor arbitrary.

Not that it matters but, are you a lawyer? Are you, if you are a lawyer, representing neil or are you, if you are a lawyer, just giving free legal advise, unsolicited and, truth be told, unappreciated, over the internet? Were you to get me on the stand you would find that I answered truthfully any question you put to me.

Seems you developed quite a hardon to defend neil. Any particular reason?

Wes Pollock

KNOBTAIL

11-12-2003, 10:49 PM

no I am not an attorney, I am and have always been in the Herp business. I own several businesses that are related to the Herp industry. I think I can safely say that Ive been around this field a bit longer than most if not all the people on this board of inquiry.

With regard to Neil, and I indicated that I only met him once and that was at a show. Our discussions were brief and he was polite. My emails are business related and have nothing to do with the BOI or my postings.

My only gripe is that I get the feeling that their are people on this site including you, who would consider that whatever good sevices Neil may provide, seems to end up in Neilbashing. That bothers me. Their are many people who may deserve being brought to justice because they are thieves, and this industry seem to attract the lot, but I came upon this thread, and what started out as a simple complementary, has turned into a question and answer symposium. I dont doubt for a second, that Neil may have done some things that required banning. But that is the perogative of the webmaster . From what I understand, Neil is running his business and if people like what they receive , fine if not, then they have recourse, but you dont, because its really not your business. Nor is it any of your business!

When you decide to go public with these statements about what other people have told you, and you never have even met Neil, or conducted business with Neil, then that bothers me as well. I am not here to defend Neil, But I am here to tell you that the person who bought the animals from Neil at the beginning of this post was satisfied, and that should have been the end of it. My argument is: had it not been Neil who sold the animal in the first place you would never have responded. Thats my problem. !

Now, I am off for cookies and milk. Thank you Wes, if you still feel you would like to peruse this please feel free to email me at KNOBTAIL@aol.com Respectfully, JERRY TRESSER

W.Wedeking

11-12-2003, 10:59 PM

Wes, what Neil does during his business hours with other people, should have no effect on you. Your not loosing money, nor has he stolen from you, and I can assume he has not threatened you in anyway.

I beg to differ. What any one of us does as a business and as hobbyists reflects directly in public opinion reguarding the herp world. Negative public opinions take business away from all of us and lead to unnecessary laws and regulations that limit our ability to own/sell reptiles.

It is ALL of our business what ALL reptile owners/hobbyists/importers/exporters/petstores/breeders do because it does directly have an affect on all of us.

As they say, one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch.

Now, we can let the government take over and kill the herp hobby with laws, permits, regulations etc....
Or we can police ourselves and work with our peers to improve the caliber of owners/hobbyists/importers/exporters/petstores/breeders.

ms_terese

11-12-2003, 11:05 PM

Where is my referee garb when I need it?

First of all, let me say that I'm not defending nor condemning anyone. I have sold to both Wes and Neil, but have not bought from either one. All I can tell you is that they were both great to deal with on my end. Additionally, I've had some conversations with Neil about opinions on TOS, etc., (it was some time ago, so I don't recall precisely the content of the conversation, sorry), and Neil gave some good advice and well reasoned opinions. I don't know Jerry at all. (btw, Hi Jerry..... nice to meet you!)

Previously, people have expressed that some good guy posts can't go unpunished. This thread is giving credence to those opinions, and I really don't want to see that happen.

There is a huge difference between a good transaction and a good guy, just as there is a huge difference between a bad transaction and a bad guy. Everyone has to determine what their criteria are for each of those things.

Anja made a good guy.....excuse me, that's "guud guy" ;) .....post about Neil based on her ONE AND ONLY transaction with him. While it's more appropriate to reason that this is a "good transaction" post, around the BOI "good guy" is acceptable as a terminology.

Wes, you seem to have taken the post as a personal affront that after one good deal, Neil is elevated to "good guy" status. It's not that literal. I don't think anyone would deny that Neil has had *tons* of good deals posted here on the BOI. To Wes, as to many, a mountain of good transactions will not make up for the actions that have led to the belief that ETHICALLY and/or MORALLY Neil is NOT a good guy in his eyes.

This thread wasn't designed to, nor will it manage to, determine what type of person Neil is. This thread was meant to communicate an experience with a business transaction. When people do a search on the Goobs, they'll have lots of threads to sift through to make their own determination about doing business with him.

:wavey:

Wilomn

11-12-2003, 11:35 PM

Jerry, no need for me to peruse this further as I actually do read the posts that pertain to the threads I am involved in. I also feel no need to persue this any further, as I have tried to get across several times.

Once again, I was over zealous in this thread. I let my personal dislike for neil color my responces. I still feel that nothing I have said was wrong however, it most likely did not need saying again here.

As you have stated had it not been neil I probably, and that means I just might have, responded. But it was neil and I did respond, just as did you. Good for the goose is good for the gander.

You are not judge and jury nor am I. We do both have the right and thanks to Rich, the place to voice our opinions. I have not told you how you should think or feel or what you should or should not post. I would appreciate the same from you. Feel free to disagree with me and to try to convince me that I need to change my opinion, I am not averse to that and, should your arguments prove overwhelming, to actually changing the opinion in question. But you will need some pretty darn well overwhelming evidence to get me to change my mind.

neil made an enemy out of me early on. By his actions, lack thereof, and general character he has continued to be my enemy. He hurt and insulted a friend of mine. That bothers me. He insulted and threatened me. That bothers me. He is not man enough to contact me directly, he does so through others gullible enough to post his ranting and lies. He's just a lousy little man with a big mouth that really pi$$ed me off. I don't forget easy when the offence is as bad as was his.

Now, as I have said many times, this is not about how I feel about neil. As I have said several times he does, on occasion, sell good animals. Should you wish further discourse on this feel free to start another thread and let me know.

Wes Pollock

thomas davis

11-12-2003, 11:36 PM

well im glad to hear that neil sold a healthy snake and the person is happy w/it,,,for now ,,time will tell if it was/is healthy and eating, i mean if neil said it ate a pinkie well then it must be eating good and healthy,robust,stunning,amazing and other good playup words(afterall he was banned from this site,for lying,threatning&trolling),,,though i find it pretty hard to beleive a w/c scarletking ate a domestic pinkie,then refused one but then ate an anole!,,anyone who has worked w/scarlets knows the trials of getting them on pinks and also knows once they do they stay on pinks? so its eating,and thats good,sure hope it really is,,it does sadden me to see local petpeddlers dealing in local native species,esp. one as rare,hard to keep,& decling in wild as elapsoides is:( ,oilwell,,,,,,,thomas

gila7150

11-12-2003, 11:43 PM

anyone who has worked w/scarlets knows the trials of getting them on pinks and also knows once they do they stay on pinks?

Come on Thomas, we're talking about Neil here. Don't you remember his Kingsnake ad from last year for the fresh WC scarlet king that was pounding down crickets like candy? (yes, I said crickets)
They all seem to eat for him;)

ms_terese

11-12-2003, 11:53 PM

Don't you remember his Kingsnake ad from last year for the fresh WC scarlet king that was pounding down crickets like candy? I'm guessing he was telling the absolute truth. Have you ever seen a WC Scarlet King eat candy ?

Sorry, I know it's not funny, I'm just up too late, am too tired, and couldn't resist!

Dave Lawson

11-13-2003, 12:02 AM

I think that it is safe to say that I have known Gubitz longer that most people on this board (almost 5 years). Neil and I were at on time pretty good friends, that is until I got to know the person he truely is. Gubitz is a spin doctor and a dang good one at that. At one time Jerry I to was like you and would come on this board and defend Gubitz, but once I saw his true colors I tried to tell people about him and the things that I KNEW he had did and what I got was bashed and flamed on by all...... At that time I told everyone that the day would come when they to would see the true Gubitz. That day came when Gubitz was caught lying and the report was finally posted and it was known that Gubitz set up his own burglaries and stole donations from the people on this site. You are a adult so do what you want but don't make the same mistakes that I made.... do not trust him.

On almost a daily bases I get calls from one of my wholesellers to customers telling me that Gubitz was talking trash about me. People that know Gubitz in Florida call him a joke and laugh at him. Buy it is hard for people to get to know the true Neil Gubitz to get to know the Gubitz that lies, cheats and steals when the only inter action they have with him is via e-mails or one or two phone conversations. I still remember the Tampa show (last year, I think) when Gubitz set up a big meet and greet at Outback steakhouse, once people met Neil for the first time and seen the kind of person he is, they to started laughing at him.

Most 99% of the animals Gubitz advertises he does not even have or know anything about them, he brokers them. Now I am not saying that there is anything wrong with brokering animals but in his ads everything has perfect donut sheds and are eating like pigs but he lies about where the snakes are, Gubitz does not have these snakes at his house, he does not own them and he knows nothing about them so he makes stuff up. The animals that he does own are direct imports that he get from a wholesale house in Tampa.

And just to give some info on the scarlet king debate, Gubitz has a guy named Timothy Geist from Apollo Beach Florida hunt them for him and yes he has sold more then he is saying and several more have died due to lack of care on Gubitz's part.

brucestephenson

11-13-2003, 12:07 AM

Wide-spread Habitat Destruction in Florida by Collecting for Scarlet Kings?
This sounds like an Earth First press release. I can absolutely guarantee that this is a huge FABRICATION. Do you know how big the state of Florida is? I have never met or talked to Neil Gubitz even though I live in the Tampa Bay Area, but I do hang out at the largest wholesale establishment in anywhere except for South Florida. I can tell you this is a LIE meant to inflame public opinion.
Please try to sceptical when you read or hear such weird stuff.

Stardust

11-13-2003, 12:07 AM

Hey Dave,
Was it you that went to court with Neil? How did that whole thing turn out anyway? If memory serves it was you.

ms_terese

11-13-2003, 12:12 AM

Dave, Dave, Dave......stones, glass houses.....pots & kettles.....well......you know that old story, right?

So let me make sure I understand this: you say that Neil staged his own robberies after coming on the BOI and stating that you knew who broke into Neil's store? You found out what kind of person Neil was after he staged those robberies, then rekindled your friendship with him long enough to buy his store, right? I remember some posts about how you two had buried the hatchet.....was that after you learned he staged the robberies that you also claimed someone else committed?

By the way, Dave, how did that lawsuit turn out? You guys had your day in court, right? I thought for sure you said you were going to come here and post the outcome of that....

JungleHabitats

11-13-2003, 12:17 AM

you mentioned the Snake Pit breakin ins and reports ...

I was told by Neil that you admitted full responibility for breakins there ?

and since you are here id like to get your feedback on that here is what i was told Via email.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Gubitz" <ngubitz@webtv.net>
To: <junglehabitats@charter.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:40 PM

> Alan.... since you were civil in that email, I will try to constrain
> myself with this answer....
> You are absolutely correct about biz being biz.... but you have to
> understand that ALL of this <font color=red>[boink]</font> hit the fan when Lawson started
> accusing me of everything in the book and people actually believed him
> because he knows how to "sell himself".... don't you see the irony in
> that?? HE is the one who was (and IS) responsible for ALL the crap that
> has happened around the Tampa area??.... Just last week, to get an offer
> of immunity, he had to ADMIT to ALL of them??.... I have been so totally
> accused of everything and NONE OF IT had been done by me??.... You're
> right, I go way off the handle at times when I KNOW I'm right and I KNOW
> I'm as honest as the day is long.... since I';ve been banned from Fauna,
> I've sold over 500 high-end animals with not ONE complaint??.... In the
> six years I've been doing this full time I've sold over 5000 high end
> animals with just 3 complaints (all for under $100 each).... 2 of which
> I've already made right.... and, in my opinion, I had LEGITIMATE gripes
> with each one.... but, for ANYONE to call me a LIAR and a THIEF.... that
> just burns me up!.... I DON'T lie and I've NEVER stolen anything from
> anyone!.... of ALL the posts I've written on the BOI, all Wes could come
> up with were those three that happened 2 YEARS AGO???.... That's the
> most ridiculous thing I've ever seen!.... No matter what you had sent
> me, I would never have burned you for any reason!.... But you ALL had to
> listen to Lawson (a KNOWN THIEF) and take his side.... you don't see the
> fallacy and absurdity in that??.... I know my name is basically ruined
> because of him on the BOI, but, I really don't care that much, my
> business is still going strong and I put most of it off to professional
> jealousy!.... You really think Wes scares me???.... The only reason I
> didn't go after him is because there's nothing to go after.... I don't
> need a broken down trailor from a backwoods hillbilly (that can lift
> heavy things)....whoopee....
> I can't tell you how many people do business with me BECAUSE of what
> (and how) I've said things on the BOI.... it's people like wes who are
> bringing that sight down.... not me.... I've had many long talks with
> Rich Z. about all of this (as late as last week at the show).... I
> understand totally his reasons for kicking me off.... I can appreciate
> it and respect it.... the way I wrote that email, I would have kicked me
> off myself.... but, you know me, I won't be bullied and I don't bow down
> to peer pressure.... I tell it like it is and most people can't handle
> that.... tough, that's me.... I bet if someone backed YOU into a corner,
> you'd come out swinging, too.... as I said, I have nothing against you,
> but please don't call me a liar and a thief??.... If you don't want to
> do biz with me, that's up to you, even though I would NEVER screw you or
> anybody else....
> I would love to go back to our friendship BEFORE Lawson became a maggot
> in my life.... but, again, that's totally up to you....
>
> ....Neil %>))
>
thanks Dave

Dave Lawson

11-13-2003, 12:36 AM

Immunity for what? Am I the only one that remembers the P.I. report?

No Allen, I did not have anything to do with those break-ins I did not say I did to get immunity it is only more of Neil's lies. As far as our court case went well Neil got a judgement and so did I ....It was a wash.

Neil's buisness is going so well that he is looking for a job....

Jealousy? of what? Neil? The only man in the world that had a Boa lay eggs.

I knew when I came here and posted that It would come down on me but to all the Neil fans remember this the question isn't if Neil will screw, its when?

Stardust

11-13-2003, 12:37 AM

If Dave wont post what transpired from that court date I just happen to have the case number.
Gubitz vs. Lawson
case # 03-CC-008101 div K

For anyone really interested :)

Oh and Dave, do you happen to know anything about Fancy Pets????? Just curious of course.

JungleHabitats

11-13-2003, 12:45 AM

Just so you know i am not taking sides on ANYTHING with you ,Neil breaking into or out of anything. The reason you got asked thisis becasue YES you did show up in this thread.Now to set something straight i had tols neil over theseemails i would only give my input when asked and would do so buy giving people a link or the way to search function to find out about him IF they asked .He enlightened me on this outcome because as stated the thread over all that really got the ball rolling in his demise or banning From the BOI. He told me to ask someone else which i will now that wasa 3rd party does the name susan Tippi ring a bell to anyone here if they know her please give me contact info i have a few questions to ask her at neils request.

and one last thing the only person whom i am a fan of is my son
thanks Dave

Stardust

11-13-2003, 12:50 AM

Why yes Alan I do happen to have some pertinent information for you. I will email it to you privately :)
Just full of information tonight.
Oh and Dave, I do not recall it being a wash out. Would you care to change that slight MISTAKE that you typed about the outcome or shall I?

Dave Lawson

11-13-2003, 12:58 AM

Post what you want, You think I care.

As far as our court case went well Neil got a judgement and so did I ....It was a wash.

And yes I know Susin Tippie very well she owns Fancy pet, why?

If you have all this information then spill it why all the cloak and dagger crap, if you have something to say say it here. Don't hint around be a adult I am interested in what rumors Gubitz is spreading this week.

JungleHabitats

11-13-2003, 01:10 AM

the info is very juicy ... now i still will say i remain neutral in this but the info does not look like good news .... the thing is there has been SO MUCH BAD BLOOD between both you and neil eveything atleast by me goes down with a grain of salt. I personally wont post what i was seen untill i talk with the source ... which i will then and only then will i post anything i find out from that source (Susin Tippi) now let me ask you is there anything that you havent told about how well you know her ?

Iwould like to Apologize to the thread starter for this getting SOOOOOOOO FAR off track ..... but deep down hidden under the BS it does in someway pertain to the topic ...Neil Gubitz

JungleHabitats

11-13-2003, 01:13 AM

What is $5000 +$149.00 with 6% APR ??:2gunsfiri

now thats what i call a :toiletcla

Stardust

11-13-2003, 01:16 AM

Yes, I agree with Alan, it has gotten a bit off track. So I will refrain, and like Alan will get in touch with a couple of sources before I post more on the robberies.
For permission perposes.
And on the lawsuit, well, the case number is right there.
Does 5000.00 and 149.00 in court costs with a 6% annual interest rate as per Fl law sound right?
Now just what did you win Dave?
I am trying to be neutral as well, but very hard. Very hard indeed.

Dave Lawson

11-13-2003, 01:25 AM

I did say

As far as our court case went well Neil got a judgement and so did I ....It was a wash.

Oh and did Neil say anything about the appeal or did he say anything about the aniamls that "HE" STOLE FROM MY STORE or how he tried to have Josie Arnold sell for him. I guess Neil does not want to go back to prison and was ready to deal with me.... yes a wash.

Yes, maybe judgement was the wrong word...I am sorry.

JungleHabitats

11-13-2003, 01:39 AM

Oh and did Neil say anything about the appeal
no please enlighten us .....

do you have a lawyer ? if so an appeal is 99.9% always done when you lose a case common sense to try to either revers the outcome or have lowered.

or did he say anything about the aniamls that "HE" STOLE FROM MY STORE or

ok no he didnt .... again enlighten us ? has that been proven?is there anything that the courts in FLA have saying he stole them ?
if not then lets wait untill hes proven one or two ways innocent or guilty then we can hash that one out and beleive me if its guilty then well neil to will have some explaining to do on that basis .

or how he tried to have Josie Arnold sell for him. I guess Neil does not want to go back to prison and was ready to deal with me.... yes a wash.

and again enlighten us please ? see im not taking sides Dave but when people bring up something i just really do like to be nosey and find out all i can to formulate my opinions.I also like to do them with as many facts that can be laid on the table.yeah some people would say "Alan its none of your buisness what happend" ... but when dirty laundry get hung up in a public place then yeahhh it is my buisness if i want it to be . i was always told if you have skeletons in the closet put your clothes somewhere else ... guess what i hang my clothes in the closet :D

Roger Jolly

11-13-2003, 02:47 AM

Quote of a quote that came from Neil Gubitz (second hand, no less).

but, for ANYONE to call me a LIAR and a THIEF.... that
> just burns me up!.... I DON'T lie and I've NEVER stolen anything from
> anyone!....

Now, quote from page 15 of the PI report, which was a copy of an email sent to Rich Z from Neil Gubitz.

Rich....First of all...IF we decide to TELL ALL...I would suggest we DON'T do it until AFTER the Tampa show, for obvious reasons!!
BUT....Everyone put money in to try and catch the culprit, correct?? Why don't I just put out a thread saying that the guy has been caught, but I can't go into ANY DETAILS because of the investigation and eminent trial??? This will take EVERYTHING and make it SWOLLOWABLE, at least! I figure....why cause trouble?? Wh not just let everyone feel like they made a difference and WE'LL be the ONLY ones to know the truth??
What do you think??? ....Neil

Damn, Neil!! Darn lucky for you that Rich Z didn't take you up on your offer to lie, otherwise you would have lied for the very first and only time you ever have in your entire life. Boy, that was really close, wasn't it???

Wilomn

11-13-2003, 02:52 AM

See below, moron.... in case you can't read as well as you can lift
heavy things, note the DAY AND TIIME I sent you the FIRST email....
your
signature says it all.... you're totally brain dead and a LIAR but you
can lift heavy things.... whoopee

....Neil %>))

This is the second email gubitz sent me.

neil, I have been registered here for a long time. You have emailed me at the address I have listed here. Instead of trying to get someone else to send me your drivel you really should just hit the email button here on fauna. Oh wait, if you do that you will most likely lose the priviledges you have now a "I'm not here."

I believe that things like name calling, like calling me a moron, are frowned upon. And since you have NO PROOF that I am a liar that would qualify as well.

I couldn't get both emails to post at once so I'll get the first one he sent up in a second. For the record neil, I check this address about once a month. For future correspondence please use wpollock3@yahoo.com, I check that one daily. See what sneaking around gets you, I would have told you where to reach me if you'd just asked. Oh wait, you can't ask because you LOST your posting priviledges TWICE for lying.

Wes Pollock

Wilomn

11-13-2003, 02:57 AM

Wes, you are flat out bald faced Lying SOB.... every animal I've sold
since February has been put on my "Animals Sold Since 02/01/03" section
of my site.... I just went through it and THIS is the FOURTH one I've
sold since then.... NEVER have I had an adult pair or even sold a PAIR
at the same time.... you are so full of it, it's coming out of your
ears!.... Let's see you have the guts to post THIS email.... GROW UP!

....Neil %>))

Here we go with the name calling again. Poor neil, got to resort to that. Too bad, so sad.

I am still fairly certain that one of the lines you used in your add was meant to lead the unknowing buyer that if they bought a pair, as in male and female, from you they would be producing babies next year.

Now somewhere in this long long thread you mentioned that you have sold over 500 animals, or was it 5000, and yet you have no where near that many listed on your sold page. Which of the two is yet ANOTHER lie?

Well, I'm not here, which I, and many others I'm sure, wish you weren't, what next?

Wes Pollock

Wilomn

11-13-2003, 09:33 AM

In the interest of completeness I forgot to mention that neil was also banned for abuse of the pm system here on fauna as well as abuse of the email priviledge. Seems he got nasty and threatening after being warned not to.

Back to you gubitz.

Oh and by the way, if you must be so abusive and offensive please do NOT email me any more. If we ever meet in person you can call me all the names you want to my face, providing you can crane your neck up high enough to look me in the face. Somehow though I sort of doubt that you would be quite so, shall we be nice and keep it to LOUD, in person.

Wes Pollock

Darin Chappell

11-13-2003, 11:04 AM

Hearing Neil say he isn't a liar is almost as entertaining as hearing Dave say that Neil is a liar and a cheat, as if to suggest that such would make Neil worse than Dave instead of simply identicle!

I say again . . .

Glad to hear your deal went well, Anja! I hate to see anyone get taken, regardless of the person with whom they dealt.

WebSlave

11-13-2003, 01:20 PM

Jeeesuuuss people. Now you have left me NO choice but to unban Neil so he can defend himself here. Do you think it is fair that I allow a onesided argument?

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT CONTACTING ME AND COMPLAINING ABOUT ME ALLOWING NEIL BACK ON HERE. I WILL DELETE YOUR MESSAGES WITHOUT EVEN READING THEM.

You are reaping what you have sown in this thread.
:hot:

JungleHabitats

11-13-2003, 01:45 PM

Its not "all that bad" of a idea.Simply that this would allow alot of the he said she said that ends up envolving Neil to be cast aside and then deal directly with the source.The MAIN reason i posted the email that probably pushed the ball down the hill was to clarify something i was told by neil , in that in FLA and at court Dave had admitted to the tampa area break-ins.Now at the time i was told this i will say iwasnt much bothered who broke into what.I had even told Neil that while i had never had a bad deal with him so therefore when his name was mentioned to who/what he was/is that i wouldnt make comments on him or what he did or didnt do but to be fair to the person asking that question was to refer them to do a search and dig through the threads to make the descision they can by what they read .and therefore resulting in what ever may come they would have the insight to have been informed.
When Dave come in this thread ( which is his right) he mentioned Neils name so therefore i took the chance to ask dave of his invovlement in the break-ins.While to many and to me the rcord shows Neil has had many reviews both good and bad and yes i can say he has made probably more then one "unfavorable" choice in what comes out of his mouth or who he tells it to and how.You tell enough things it will come back to bite you good or bad but it just does .So i think neil should have the right to clear this matter up ofthe break-ins in the Tampa area.Now as i said to Dave if it comes back that neil has/had any part of them well then SHAME on him and then he will have to deal with that .But when i have someone that emails me with IMO info of something MANY wanted to know of and its accusing the other involved party i think everyone should have the right to see what that or those people are capable of and theres enough history here that either one could really do there selves in if what there saying ends up untrue. being theres court records now on file one or the other should have written proof of the outcome... now if it is a wash as dave claims and both were awarded $$ and judgements .. then it comes down to what the judgement was for , did is show guilt on both parts ? and if so then i think that alone would prove out what both are capable of doing and show there character as humans & buisness people .

it would also let him defend hiself to his accusers... Maybe though Neil should have his own forum lol it could be a long dirty read for all

Sorry if by what i posted caused you greif webslave but i figured what i posted was importanat to show that either Neil could have been right about him not having anything to do with his breakins or either show he did when the $hit hits the fan when there both asked to lay the guns on the table and act like men andSHOW there peers what the real truth is in that case .

:slamit:

dwedeking

11-13-2003, 01:53 PM

Hell, let him back on. People like him and Adam do more damage to themselves when they post than their detractors could ever hope to achieve.

Need some rope?

Dave Lawson

11-13-2003, 02:27 PM

Allen, I am still confused about when exactly I confessed to any involvement in any break-ins and also as to why I would confess to it. Can you answer any of these questions? What you are failing to see is that Neil is the one and only person saying that I did any of it (He is the only person that I know of). But on the other hand there has been several people that have mde statement as to Gubitz being the culprit not to mention that a P.I. was hired to investigate all the break-ins at The snake pit and after months of doing his job he filed a report and proved that Gubitz staged the break-ins. If I understand correctly Neil has to answer to the insurance company based on the findings of that P.I. report.

So again I ask you, why would I admit to it?

In all fairness to me, Have you called Josie Arnold and ask her about the animals Gubitz stole from my store and tried to have her sell. She knew what Gubitz was up to and returned them to me. I stepped to Him with this and we called it a wash. Gubitz can tell you whatever he wants and you as an adult can believe it or not, But learn from our mistakes the day will come when you will have your turn to eat crow. Gubitz has a habit of screwing his friends, we all have one thing in common at one time we were all Neil's friends until he screwed us.

Neil Gubitz

11-13-2003, 02:41 PM

Well, I guess Wes is right for once.... I just counted.... I've sold
exactly 355 indiviual animals since 02/01/03, and not the 500 I
thought....so much for rounding off.... I guess he also didn't see his
other email addy when he said I NEVER emailed him personally (before I
sent that email to Rob).... I should probably email Wes again to
apologize for calling him names, but, I was pissed at the time.... and I
have emailed Wes to apologize, but he just threw out my apology (in his
answer) with the garbage.... oh well, I tried??

When Lawson took over the store location from me, the landlord's name is
Dhanesh (Don) Kapadia of Tampa, FL... Lawson NEVER paid his rent of $800
per month for FIVE MONTHS.... Never paid Don ONE RED CENT! (look up his
phone number in the book and ask him yourself if you don't believe
me).... "Don" gave him an eviction notice in August (I think) to get out
within three days.... when Lawson finally did get out of the store
(about a month later), "Don" called me a couple of days after to ask me
to go to the building with him (he's afraid of snakes) to see if there
was anything loose in the building, as he was "showing" the building
that is now up for sale to someone that morning (you can verify that
with him).... when we walked in, the place was a disaster area....
Lawson had NOT been in the store in over a week and left it a mess, so,
since he owes me $5000 plus $149 court costs plus 6% interest (Case
#03-CC-008101, signed into effect as of 07/01/03 by the presiding Judge
Eric R. Myers, and NO appeal has EVER been filed.... he's lying through
his teeth!), instead of throwing all the stuff in the garbage to help
Don clean up, I just took everything that wasn't nailed down with me....
that included a couple of pieces of wood, some mealworms that were left
in the fridge, two water bowls, one 30" striplight and a box of four
Mexican Redleg Tarantulas in plastic containers that Lawson had left
there to die!!.... nothing else woud fit in the back seat of my car....
I didn't want the spiders, so I GAVE THEM to Josie.... Lawson found out
about this and basically went to Josie's place and stole them from
her store.... Josie wasn't even in the store when Lawson took them back!!....

You have 30 days to file a judgement appeal (I think), NO papers were
EVER filed for an appeal, because he'd lose that, too!

Ask him to post the front and BACK of the check he gave to Tony.... he
won't because there will probably be a BIG RED bounced "NSF" stamped on
it!
He's a LIAR and a KNOWN THIEF.... Call the TPD and find out for yourself
if he CONFESSED to burglarizing.... Susin Tippi's place.... It's Alive
Pet Shop in Brandon.... Herp's Hobby Shop in Oldsmar.... Southern
Reptile Exchange in Tampa.... The Snake Pit (three times) and some
others that I can't remember the name's of...

Here's an email I received yesterday....

From: herpads@starband.net (Herp Ads Team) Date: Wed, Nov 12, 2003,
2:21pm To: ngubitz@webtv.net ('Neil Gubitz') Subject: FW: reptile ads
Thought you'd get a kick out of this....

I was approached by her about herp ads...she wanted to know if there was
a way to look up old ads, as someone robbed her for $25,000 and thinks
he may have been posting those animals for sale on herp ads.

-----Original Message-----
From: Susin April Tippie [mailto:fancypet@mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 2:15 PM
To: herpads@starband.net
Subject: Re: reptile ads
Hi,
Thanks for getting back with me. His name is Dave or David Lawson,
Lawson Reptiles, Zodiac Reptiles, Lawson Enterprises. e-mail is
lbdlawson@aol.com.
The theft was June 21,03. I was told that he pre-sells the reptiles and
then steals them. So I am looking for ads in June, July and August. Just
in case he held soom back to sell later.

Please let me know as soon as you can.
Thanks,
Susin

----- Original Message -----
From: Herp Ads
To: 'Susin April Tippie'
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: reptile ads
Hi Susan:

Please let me know who you are looking for and I can see if there were
any ads posted on our system.

We will do whatever we can to help you out in this matter.

Thanks!

The Herp Ads Staff

end of email

Yeah.... I would say he knows Susin REAL WELL!!

Still think I'm talking out of my xxx??

Wilomn

11-13-2003, 04:02 PM

Here is my reply to neil's appology. The one he once again, as he seems to in most emails he sends my way, asks me not to post on the boi. Wonder why that is? Hmmmmmmm.

My guess on this, and it's just a guess, is that neil thought he had really pi$$ed me off and I was "gunnin" for him so to speak. In truth it never even crossed my mind to confront him physically. There are times for that and some people that's all they would understand but, neil is a little old man, not someone I would look up in person. It must really suck to be you neil and have to be afraid that perfect strangers, well people you've never met in person anyway, are out to kick your a$$. Seems that diareahh(?) of the mouth you have so bad has gotten you in trouble before.

So, there he was, tail tucked firmly between his skinny little legs, knobby knees a shakin', saying can't we agree to disagree? Basically saying to me that he wants me to just let him lie and rip people off while I know about it and say nothing.Then to top it off, he insults my intelligence, though I am a moron so I guess I shouldn't be surprised, by telling me he'd like to be my FRIEND!!!Manliness aside, as neither my manhood nor his lack of it enters into my decision to post his email and my reply, neil is still a conniving little worm. It didn't work with me again and away he went back to the boi to cry how I had thrown his appology in the garbage.

neil, just because you got scared and decided I'd be someone you don't want pi$$ed at you doesn't mean I have to accept an appology I NEVER asked for. I don't care what you think of me, never have. If you stopped selling snakes today you'd never hear from me again.

You did wrong. Then you did wrong to cover the wrong you had done. Along the way you LIED repeatedly to some people who didn't know any better than to believe what you said. Rozann and Mike's daughter was the final straw for me.

In the future please refrain from emailing me at all. If you wish further communication you can do it here.

Below is my responce to neil's email to me. His email follows the reply.

No neil, there is no chance for us to be friends. I don't like people like you. As I've said before and I still believe now, you are a predator. You take advantage of those who don't know any better than to buy some of what you sell.

I wasn't implying that I wanted to fight you, only that I suspected that in person your mouth might not move quite so much as it seems to in your posts.

You know why I don't like you. You haven't changed so I still don't like you. It's not just Rozann, there are plenty of other examples of your lack of ability to tell the truth throughout the boi. You just took advantage of one too may newbies when you ripped of Rozann with the rosy boa and the the uromastix. I know she's satisfied with what you've done. That's fine with me. I on the other hand am not satisfied.

You built the leaky boat you're sinking in.

Wes

Neil Gubitz <ngubitz@webtv.net> wrote:
Wes.... Look, I realize you don't like me for what happened with Rozann,
but is there any way we can just call a truce to all of this??.... I AM
sorry for calling you "names", but I was a little distressed when you
call me a liar and a thief.... I'm sure you would act the same way if
someone you didn't know started saying that about you in an open
forum??.... We're supposed to be adults, right??.... You're listening to
hearsay that's just not true.... especially when it comes to Lawson....
I know you're a big guy, but, even if you weren't, I'm not a fighter and
I don't play that game.... I'd prefer if we just agreed to disagree....
I also hope you're man enough NOT to post this as it is between you and
me only.... can't we work this out between the two of us somehow??....
I've already made it right with Rozann to her satisfaction and I've
apologized countless times to her and we are now friends.... I would
LIKE to be your friend one of these days, too.... I have nothing against
you because I don't know you from a hole in the ground, other than what
I read.... Do you think there's ANY possibilities in that??
You can even call me if you'd like and we can talk this through....
813-908-1869

JungleHabitats

11-13-2003, 04:47 PM

If either of you two could provide Phone #'s for Josie & susin i would be more then happy to call to get there sides of the story on who robbed who's stores .

Dave like i have already stated from the email sent to me i was told you admitted to it .. now i could have just been a blind duck and beleived but i didnt i wanted to ask your feedback which i did i didnt accuse you of anything just merely stated what i was told .

Neil Is it true what dave says that you both got a settlement? if so what his his settlement?

and last thing i think at this point replies to this would need there very own thread
Dave & Neil Thread (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=28976)

Wilomn

11-13-2003, 05:01 PM

I do not think I deserve a warning point for my last post. I did not call anyone any names. Derrogatory statements maybe, but it's a fine line and I thought I stayed on the nice guy side of it.

Webslave, is a banning a banning or a time out? You've banned neil twice. Because of his actions he has had his priviledge to be here removed. Whether or not his continued behavior brings his name up here, does not banning mean forbidden to return forever?

Wes Pollock

Dave Lawson

11-13-2003, 05:15 PM

Gubitz you don't make any sence, If the landlord gave me a eviction notice he had to go and have a judge sign it, and if like you say It took me a month to move out there would have been a bench warrent for my arrest.

Josie was in the store when she gave me back the animals your stole from my store.

I did ask the landlord if he let you in the store or if he told you to take anything, he said "NO".

As far as the rest of the drivil your spouting, well I will chauk it up to more of your lies.

Do you think that Susin would risk a law suit by writing a e-mail like that? If she did write it then you are correct and I guess I did not know her that well.

herpetological

11-13-2003, 05:58 PM

Lets try this..... Neil and Lawson DO NOT include terms of endearment like,"Liar, theif, etc. etc.". When each of you posts please take a moment to remember that. It just makes your posts less respectable. We all know the past with both Lawson and Neil. How about we take this in a different direction. When either one of you posts instead of name calling and opinion...how about posting links or facts etc, Neil did happen to do this in his statement about the case against Lawson. Wes take it easy and pretend this is an entirely new thread/person that needs to be judged on it's single thread merit. I see no reason that you cannot post threads that link to old posts however, just jumping in and calling names only makes it look like a vendetta. I think it's clear that you do not like Neil. (Not going to either) That's fine. It has been proven out in other threads that both Neil and Lawson have made ummmm.....mistakes.(Being civil) I've done business with Neil on both sales and purchases. Mostly sales.(90%) He's always been good to pay. Again, I always get on him about jumping in and saying things before he thinks!(Bad habit Neil LOL!) However, I've never had a problem. (Reasons for this? Maybe, maybe not?) I do not however agree with anyone jumping up on a post and calling anyone names. How about starting it off by simply saying," I don't agree and be careful. You might want to check these old threads...." Then if the proverbial Sxxt hit the fan do as you wish or if you are asked specifically. I noticed others who posted are waiting to talk first hand to the people involved before they post or make an opinion. (the thing to do) If everyone keeps a level head and acts like the intelligent people we say we are, it will be settled! I'm not up here defending anyone. This just gets real old! NOW....as to the scarlet king issue...I spend many hours in the field.(For a number of reasons) I have collected specimens worldwide. I can collect as many Scarlet kings as I can Red Rats in Fl. It was Evans in Appalachicola as far as I have been told. The big problem was the habitat destruction! Yes there were a number of SK's on the market. The problem is that volume collectors simply dump the animals at whatever price they can get. The specimens we offer are feeding and treated. I don't sell huge numbers due to the fact that babies are tiny and cannot take pinkies for several months after birth. I have had many SK's over the years that did very well. I only collect them if they are over 14" and can take pinkies. I've had very few that would not.(No I don't gas them or destroy their habitat nor do I collect hundereds!) Therefore, it is a misnomer so to speak. It just takes time,patience and experience. I'd say anyone looking to breed them may get out of it after the first clutch. Incidentally, I sold Neil some SK's last year.
They were all feeding and healthy. The facts. JMHO Thanks Ray G. HBR