Buying from Strictly Reptiles in 2003?

[bigcagereptiles]

Hello,
Has anyone have good or bad experiences with buying from Strictly Reptiles in 2003? I heard some good and bad about them as sellers but most of it was from 2002.
Any new news on these guys that is recent or within 2003, would be very appreciated.
Thanks Steve

[KNOBTAIL]

that most if not all the animals are imports. If you are willing to take the risk and the price is right, they are no worse or better than any of the other large importers. Not the friendliest people to deal with, and personally, Michael who is the owner has a somewhat of a duel personality, but if you can get through that, they have been around for a long time, have a clean establishment and probably have the second or third best prices around. JERRY TRESSER

[diamondback1]

I bought several boas from them earlier this year. The color was decent but very thin and heavily loaded with parasites. They were sold as cb yearlings but I doubt that they were.

[damien_1985]

i haev bought from strictly since january and have purchased well over $20,000 in animals and supplies. Out of all that i only had problems with 1 central american, and a few tree boas. Till then none of the animals had any Mites or nottin that could harm them...Also they have excellent service and ppl to help you with your orders....So i defintly reccommend them for business and the prices are great....also try zoological imports and ask for mario he aslo has great serivce and has nvr screwed me either....thanks.....

[sychoram]

I've dealt with Strictly on and off for probably 8 years. I always deal with Jeannie (my little ray of sunshine) she has always given me the best service immaginable. She has never failed to correct a wrong, (sometimes well outside their tos). Just placed an order with them last week Fed ex screwed up the delivery and Mike told me he'd make it right on my next order

[Intense Herpetoculture]

With Strictly I've found you either get really great animals or most of the shipment sucks. I personally have found better outlets of WC animals (Burgundy Reptile Traders), and only deal with Strictly when there is no one else. They've sent me so many problem animals wehn I asked for no crap in my shipments, even offered to pay extra for good animals! I'm sorry but when the animal has huge gashes in it's side, is half dead, etc. prior to shipping it out, don't ship it! They have not made good on any of the problems with their shipments (there fault). I am personally looking for the day when importers fecal all the WC's, treat them, acclimate them, etc. These are live animals for crying out loud, not toys. There should be no good reason we lose 99% of imports we currently do. WC animals as poor captives is one of the main reasons our hobby is going down hill, we need to change that. With that said, I'm not against WC animals, but the conditions we allow them to be treated in.

[snakegetters]

Originally posted by Intense Herpetoculture
I am personally looking for the day when importers fecal all the WC's, treat them, acclimate them, etc. These are live animals for crying out loud, not toys. There should be no good reason we lose 99% of imports we currently do. WC animals as poor captives is one of the main reasons our hobby is going down hill, we need to change that. With that said, I'm not against WC animals, but the conditions we allow them to be treated in.

I'll second that. I have offered free veterinary care for trauma injured imported venomous snakes to all of the major South Florida importers, and very few of them have bothered to take me up on the offer. The terms of the offer are that they must give me the snakes that are seriously injured so that I may take them to the clinic for surgery, and I do what I can on the premises for the animals that have only minor problems. No charge for fecal exams, medications, etc, and some snakes get lab tests at our expense if we think there is something really interesting to be found.

Mario at Zoological Imports is one of the few people who *does* take me up on this standing offer, and as a consequence we have been able to save a number of animals that get unpacked in pretty rough shape. Other snakes he has in stock at the time also get checked out and treated, time permitting, after the immediate need cases have been handled. The clinic I work with is very good indeed about helping out importers who are willing to work with us and hand over ownership of the cases that would obviously die without intervention anyhow.

Apparently some importers would rather sell badly injured snakes instead of handing them over to a vet clinic for the surgery and the pain relief medication that they badly need. I agree that this is an awful practice, especially when every one of these importers knows that this alternative does exist at least for the venomous species. For the nonvenomous species, there isn't much excuse for their regular floor workers not to be doing the minimum with antiparasiticals appropriate for the region the snakes come from.

Actually there isn't much excuse for the snake's owners not to be doing this either. If you buy WC, you are almost certainly buying a collection of interesting pathologies inside the body of a snake. This is kind of nifty if you're working with a vet clinic doing research on interesting pathologies, much less so otherwise. Fecal exams and appropriate treatment are an absolute must for any healthy appearing WC import, the sooner the better. If it doesn't look healthy, get thee to a vet immediately because there is surely a good (and potentially contagious) reason.

[Python0608]

I ordered from them once and would never do it again. Most of my order was sick and I had a Mellers Chameleon Half dead. Most of the order ended up dying on me. Even the CB animals didnt look that good. Also they charged my $96 for shipping on a $1000 order of animals. I would not do business with them again and would strongly urge other people to stay away as well. I now do most of my business with Xtreme Reptiles. Alfredo has always helped me out with the very few problems that I have. I strongly reccomend them.

[ArkValRep]

I have purchased several thousand dollars worth of animals from them and have been very pleased. The animals that they sell are imports and as such you should expect the usual problems. I had a shipment that they sent me that was caught in a blizzard once, and virtually everything died from the cold and the delay. It was not their fault, but they gave me credit back on half of the shipment. I would recommend them.

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I've had a so-so shipment come in from strictly. I had ordered 3 females '03 balls, all were male (they claim they couldn't "feel" the hemi's in their tails, last time I checked you had to probe/pop them to find out sex)...and the original 3 all had a bad case of scale rot. They sent me 2 extra balls to make up for it (1 female, 1 male). They also sent me a seriously ill albino leopard gecko that died within a week of arrival.

I'm not sure if I would order from them again. If I did, I wouldn't hesitate to ship the crap back and demand my money back...

[jefjen]

You should't be dealing with wc animals if you do not know how to properly treat them when you get them.. I am by no means recommending Strictly,,and there is no excuse for sending animals to someone that are in bad shape..
As small importers ourselves, and wholesaler's,,when we recieve animals,,whether it be from out of the country, or from another importer here in the states,, we de-worm EVERYTHING,,whether its c.b.b. or imported.. I remember times when we would have bags of 50 tokays from Vietnam,,and pull them out 1 at a time,,shove needleless syringe's in their mouth,,and worm them..
We wholesale to a few pet stores now,,and do reptile show ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.. The problem we have found is that the "general" public will bypass us at a show,,where we may have imported baby balls,,that have been treated,,and are guaranteed feeders,,and we are charging, say, 25.00 each,, and go to another persons table,,where the baby balls have obviously never even seen a mouse,,just to save 10.00.. We sell SOME of our animals at SLIGHTLY higher prices than some,, but the customer can be rest assured that it is feeding,, is clean, and is overall in good general health.. We check our animals feces under a microscope,,and all that stuff costs time and money.. But once again,,the "general" public thinks you should just give the animals away..
They say things like,,"well,,i just got 20 of these at,say,12.00 a piece,,and ONLY 4 DIED... We may be selling the same animals at 14.00 each,, and guarantee that none will die.. If they do, we will work to make it right..
We are having a hard time making the ends meet right now, for the simple fact that the "general" public is so spoiled with the bottom dollar price, for BOTTOM QUALITY ANIMALS,,that they dont want to pay an extra dollar or two for quality animals..
I AM BY NO MEANS SAYING THAT 100% OF ALL OUR ANIMALS ALWAYS THRIVE.. I would be lying... But i am confident enough to say that the MAJORITY of them do thrive..
We have a good reputation in this business,,both I,when i used to sell under "Confederate Reptiles",and Jewell, who sold under Golden Serpent, which we still sell under, before we got together...
We are confident that sooner or later, the "general" public will get tired of buying crap, and put the wholesalers that sell crappy animals OUT OF BUSINESS..
Importers that take good care of there animals,,such as Mario,at Zoo Imports, Fredo at Xtreme,Ben Siegal, and a few others,,ourselves included, will stand the test of time, and withstand the rut we are going thru right now,,and wait out until the crappy wholesalers are gone for good..
REMEMBER,ITS NOT THE ANIMALS THEMSELVES,OR THE COUNTRY THEY COME FROM,,,ITS THE PEOPLE THAT GET THOSE ANIMALS, AND WHAT THEY DO WITH THOSE ANIMALS ONCE THEY ARRIVE IN THE STATES,,THAT MAKES THEM QUALITY REPTILE DEALERS..
Jeff & Jewell

[Neil Gubitz]

Jeff.... you said it right on!!.... The animals aren't the problem.... it's the wholesalers like Jeff, Jewell, Ben, Fredo, Rob, Mario, and some others, that make all the difference!.... I've got to give Jeff and Jewell their "props", because, as most of you know, Jewell was my manager at "The Snake Pit" for 1.5 years before I got rid of the store.... she used to get her own animals in the store for "Golden Serpent", and I would sit there in amazement at all the care she gave them.... heck, those animals had more drugs in them than Jeff does!!.... lol.... They were always in top health when they left the store for her shows....
If the general public would just be able to get that through their heads, we wouldn't have as many problems with wc animals dieing because of lack of care, just to save a couple of bucks.... I think it's ridiculous to "price shop"....

As far as Strictly's is concerned, I have (personally) never bought any animals through them, but, I did hear a rather interesting bit of info the other day.... I don't know if it's true or not, but when I was looking for a large Aldabra Tortoise for one of my customers, one of the "guys" said that Strictly just sold the largest Aldabra Tortoise in the US to.... Michael Jackson!!.... I'm afreaid to ask what he's going to do with it.... lol

Neil

[brucestephenson]

Was it a girl or a boy?:laugh:

[Neil Gubitz]

Bruce.... We're talking Michael Jackson here.... what do YOU think???.... lol

Do you know what Michael Jackson and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have in common??

Neither one of them can control their Johnson's!!.... lmao

Neil

[sychoram]

Neil, All I can say is ouch.

To the rest I say you can all thank the Wal mart mentallity for the bottom dollar people. I see it everyday, People refuse to understand why a captive bred baby is worth more than a wild caught. Most would rather take a chance and save a buck.

[snakegetters]

Originally posted by sychoram To the rest I say you can all thank the Wal mart mentallity for the bottom dollar people. I see it everyday, People refuse to understand why a captive bred baby is worth more than a wild caught. Most would rather take a chance and save a buck.

Personally I'd rather take a chance and save a snake's life....but I have easy access to the resources of a vet clinic and a lot of experience dealing with the health issues of WC imports.

Saving money isn't why I pick up the badly battered ones on purpose, but I agree that anyone who doesn't happen to be doing a veterinary research and rescue project is definitely better off buying CB.

[jefjen]

Tanith,,

I have to disagree with that statement.. In my opinion,c.b.b. animals are no better than w.c. animals.. A person that does not have the resources just as you and I have are better off buying from someone who gives a crap about the animals, as opposed to someone who couldn't care less.. W.C. animals do great in captivity for the most part,,if they are treated and taken care of once they hit the states..
I will say this,, some w.c. animals never thrive in captivity, which is why we stay far away from those animals.. At shows,, we label our animals c.b.b. or w.c... We try to let the people know how to properly care for their animals, what steps we have taken to insure they get healthy animals,,etc..
Quick example;;; take savannah monitors.. Usually,,when they come in, importers will feed them tons of mice((if they even eat)) put weight on them,,and sell them.. WE, US,, take those savannahs, worm them,,and do our absolute best to feed them nothing but eggs, cooked turkey, cooked chicken,,etc.. Sometimes,,we hold on to those for weeks until they start eating those things and start looking good before we can sell them...
To the guy who said "Wal-Mart mentality",,,i could not agree with you more.. You hit the nail on the head with that statement buddy...
Tanith,,,i think what you are doing is great.. Keep up the good work...
Jeff

[KNOBTAIL]

has to do with Strictly Reptiles, and my only word of advise would be to either have some one pick out the animals for you, or limit your sales to what you know you can handle. But this would apply to any importer as well. Most animals get sold upon arrival, some before arrival and some after arrival. The game is to have someone on the inside you can trust to ship what they would consider something they themselves would buy, otherwise be prepard for a loss.

With imports my personal preference is to get the animals as soon as they arrive or thereafter. I am of course dealing with geckos, and my facility is top notch for maintaining geckos. If the animal dies at my place, I know that I did everything possible to keep the critter alive. I also know that the problem lies with the shipper and how he kept the geckos prior to shipping. This would also hold true for Strictly or any other importer.

This is just my opinion, and I am sure their are others who may not agree , but thats ok JERRY TRESSER

[snakegetters]

Originally posted by jefjen
I have to disagree with that statement.. In my opinion,c.b.b. animals are no better than w.c. animals..

While CB animals are certainly not immune to diseases or parasites, a recently wild caught and imported animal is at higher risk due to the following factors:

1. Stress due to crowded or improper housing, temperature extremes during shipping, human handling, etc, resulting in immunosuppression.
2. Exposure to other animals and their diseases and parasites while at the wholesale facility.
3. Trauma injury due to the above conditions.

Take a lot of stressed, immunosuppressed animals, put them together in less than adequate housing in a less than sparkling clean wholesale facility, and you have a pretty high risk profile.

Now if you are talking about a wild snake you just personally caught on a herping trip, the picture changes rather dramatically. The risk of trauma injury is greatly reduced and so is the stress and exposure to other animals. The parasites will still be there, and the stress of adaptation to captivity, but those are not difficult to deal with and may not be life threatening even if no treatment at all is given. I still think a fecal exam is warranted however.


I will say this,, some w.c. animals never thrive in captivity, which is why we stay far away from those animals..

There are almost always very clear and specific medical reasons why some species and some individuals "never thrive". Untreated parasitism probably tops the list. A thorough veterinary exam can uncover those reasons and in many cases the animal can be properly treated so that it will thrive. In other cases the damage already done is irreversable.


Tanith,,,i think what you are doing is great.. Keep up the good work...

Likewise, I like what I am hearing about what you do with the savannahs. It's always better and more ethical to get an animal well established in captivity before selling it.

As an aside specifically on topic, the best way I would suggest to deal with Strictly Reptiles by mail order is to ask Mark Lucas to personally cherry-pick your animals. The premium you might pay will be well worth it.

[jefjen]

Tanith,,
i do agree with you on this.. The point i was making about them being no worse than c.b.b. animals again falls on the way they are treated once they hit this country..
Our policy is to try and not have 4-5 pages worth of animals for sale.. It makes it alot harder to take care of that many animals.. I would like to re-emphasize the quality of Zoo Imports animals.. We sometimes order several thousand dollars from Mario,, and the vast majority of those animals are well off..
While he is slightly higher than most, he seems to take very good care of his animals,however, i am sure that he feels the effects of this "wal-mart" mentality as well..

[snakegetters]

Originally posted by jefjen
i do agree with you on this.. The point i was making about them being no worse than c.b.b. animals again falls on the way they are treated once they hit this country..

A WC import animal that has had plenty of time to recover from the stress of importation and has been properly diagnosed and treated by an experiened person for any problems is a pretty good candidate for somebody's collection, yep. The determining factor is whether or not they are cleared as "good to go" with appropriate diagnostics before being sold. I like to see a couple of clean fecals before sending anything off.

One of our finished projects (trauma injured import after thorough veterinary exam and treatment and months of support care) is actually a better health risk than a CB animal that has never had a vet exam or a fecal. However were I to attempt sell these animals for anything even approaching the cost of their care, I am sure there would be much kicking and shrieking, especially since some are scarred or imperfect after what they've been through.

One of our latest projects is a $200 cottonmouth that some asshat shot through the neck with a pellet gun BEFORE calling our snake removal service. Fortunately the injury was soft tissue only and the little girl has recovered beautifully from surgery; her last check-up was yesterday and she has been officially pronounced healthy with very little scarring and no loss of function.

I don't imagine anyone will want to buy this pretty little girl, despite an absolutely guaranteed clean bill of health. She'd be slated for release except that she'd just run into the same problem again where she came from. So what to do with a $200 cottonmouth? LOL Keep her, I guess. She's a cutie.

[jefjen]

Tanith,,
The best thing would be to keep her, or at least take her somewhere and release her where she has a less likelyhood to come into a human's path... Take her deep into the everglades, that may work...:D

[snakegetters]

Originally posted by jefjen
Tanith,,
The best thing would be to keep her, or at least take her somewhere and release her where she has a less likelyhood to come into a human's path... Take her deep into the everglades, that may work...:D

Eeek, no. Telemetry studies suggest that the mortality rate on snakes that are moved too far from their capture site is unacceptably high. I can guarantee this little girl a very long and well fed life in captivity. If I put her back within the acceptable distance range, she is at high risk of encountering humans, their pets or their vehicles. If I dump her off in the Everglades, she is at high risk of not surviving the translocation and adapting successfully to the new environment according to the best statistics I have on the subject.

While I strongly suspect that the North American Agkistrodon are less sensitive to long distance translocation than other species that have been formally studied, I don't have enough data to verify. So my translocation policy remains the same on cottonmouths as it is on other species, which is to say "500 feet or forget it".

In any case, there are also issues of potential disease transmission into the wild - she's been months in recovery, and exposed to other snakes during this period. So no, this little girl is not a great release candidate. If her original habitat had looked better she'd have been kept in strict quarantine before a planned release.

[jefjen]

I did not know that about the relocation thing...wow...
I am sure you will give her a good life...
Good Luck:o