CMG Reptiles Inquiry

[Raaarj2]

Just wondering looking to buy het pieds

[Bci Joe]

I was also looking for some info on them, thinking about het for albino colombian boas... thanks
Joe Rollo

[The BoidSmith]

Joe,

I was curious myself, and even made an offer on the "black-headed ball" that they did not accept. They have been posting some interesting snakes. Here is one of their most recent ads:

GAURANTEED *GRAVID* GIRLS JUST IMPORTED
VIRGINIA
Posted by (Contact Me!) on December 09, 2003 at 00:35:41
Registered PetHobbyist User since 2003-07-01



I HAVE A FEW GRAVID FEMALES THAT JUST CAME IN A FEW DAYS AGO AND ARE GAURANTEED TO BE GRAVID. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT BRED THEM. COULD BE NORMALS OR COULD BE SOMETHING SPECIAL. IM OPEN ON OFFERS ON THESE BUT NOT DESPRATE TO DUMP THEM CONSIDERING ALL THE WORK IS DONE ITS JUST A WAITING GAME TO SEE WHAT POPS OUT. PLEASE ONLY SERIOUS OFFERS. AND IM ONLY OPEN TO BALL TRADES

Regards.

[A Select Few]

My advice when buying animals (especially hets) from anyone would be to get the animals info such as who originially produced them and follow up from there. I'd also get a written moneyback guarantee on any 100% hets stating that if they don't produce in 2 consecutive breedings that you would get your money back. I've even went as far as requesting either a picture of them with the animal or a copy of thier drivers license.

This way you have some ammo besides and e-mail address if you ever have to follow up on a bad deal.

Paul Jarosh
A Select Few Reptiles
Manassas Va

[CMGREPTILES]

Just to clear up confusion i always give a money back gaurantee on all my 100% hets after 2 consecutive breedings. I will always offer whatever i need to make sure anyone i deal with is satisfied with the hets they get from me. If i buy hets from other people to resell or to trade i make sure i deal with reputable people who stand behind there word as much as i do. As far as the specialty balls i get imported they are first choice animals with alot of potential. Im not a big risk taker and am not to concerned with chasing for the next new morph but some of the animals i do get in could very well be a good start to that. The blackhead i have is a really weird animal and if proven to be genetic it is worth more than the babies it would produce and the blackhead babies have sold for 25 k so any offers on her would have to be worth it to me to get rid of her instead of keeping her and working with her myself. Ive been criticized a few times for selling so many animals often but this is a buisness for me so therefore im selling as much as i can and making as much money as i can. now that doesnt mean im going to misrepresent animals and sell junk and if there is a problem with any animals which happens from time to time than i refund the money and get the animals back. Like in any buisness when dealing with the public, you cant make everyone happy but i try to do what i can to sell quality animals and at good prices. thanks alot and to everyone Happy Holidays

Chris
CMG REPTILES

[Raaarj2]

That's awesome and i'm glad you answered on the fourm for yourself Thanks

[rmontez]

He is selling albino balls that I produced last year. The pictures he posted about his HIGH HIGH HIGH HIGH GIRL belong to me. I bred the snakes, I hatched the eggs, I did not sell them to him and by now they should be about 700 grams.. This guy is a fraud. Would you want to buy hets from someone who is using other peoples pictures to sell animals he doesn't own?? Good Luck if you buy hets from him...

[CMGREPTILES]

FIRST OF ALL YOU NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT AND RESEARCH SOME AND FIND OUT HOW I GOT THOSE PICS AND THE ANIMALS AND THE HETS. MAYBE FROM THE SAME GUY YOU DEAL WITH THAT I ALSO DO ALOT OF BUISNESS WITH AND CONSIDER A PARTNER. YEA FIGURE IT OUT AND WHEN YOU DO GET BACK TO ME. I CANT STAND WHEN PEOPLE JUMP BEFORE THEY LOOK AND ARE SO QUICK TO TRY AND BASH SOMEBODIES REPUTATION WHEN THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. SO I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF I DONT HAVE THE ANIMALS THEN WHY ARE THEY AT MY HOUSE AND WHY WERE THEY ON MY TABLES THIS PAST WEEKEND AT THE NO. VA . REPTILES EXPO. COME UP WITH A GOOD ANSWER FOR THAT ONE AND YOU GOT ME OTHERWISE NEXT TIME YOU HAVE A CONFLICT HANDLE IT AMONGST YOURSELVES BEFORE YOU GO TRASHING SOMEBODIES NAME ON USELESS ACCUSATIONS
THANKS ALOT FOR THE USELESS DRAMA

CHRIS
CMG REPTILES

[rmontez]

Your second picture of the albino looks nothing like the first picture of albino. Looks pretty faded out to me, not HIGH HIGH HIGH HIGH CONTRAST as you originally said. Also this albino is not N.E.R.D. line as you stated in your post, these animals were produced from hets from Ralph Davis which I bought directly from him so how can you say they are N.E.R.D. line albinos. You used pictures I took, pictures I own, and now you are the one who is trying to back track...

You tried to sell a High High High High Contrast albino when all you have is faded albino. You were trying to make the sale from using pictures that were only a few months old. Everyone knows albinos fade out. If you would have posted your own picture from the begining this would not have been a problem

Rene Montez

[CMGREPTILES]

FIRST OF ALL THAT IS THE FIRST TIME I POSTED THAT AD WITH THOSE PICS AND THE ONLY REASON I DID WAS BECAUSE I DELETED OFF DISK THE ONES I HAD UP THERE. IF ANTONE LOOKS AT K.S THAY WILL TELL YOU ABOUT THE PICS I HAD UP THERE AND THOSE WERE PICS TAKEN AT MY HOUSE. AND SHE IS VERY HIGH CONTRAST BUT I CANT TAKE GOOD PICS SO CHECK YOURSELF FIRST. AND ASK YOUR BUDDY TO VERIFY WHAT IM SAYING AND YOU KNOW WHO IM TALKING ABOUT. YOU KNOW THE DEAL AND YOUR USELESS ACCUSATIONS HOLD NO WATER AT ALL SO THANKS ALOT FOR YOUR CRAP BUT GO HEAD HUNTING FOR SOMEONE WHO IS SCAMMING AND QUIT GOING AFTER ME WITH THIS NON SENCE
CHRIS
CMG REPTILES

[rmontez]

I guess I am the on who made the mistake! I am the one who is using other peoples pictures! I am the one saying they are from a breeders line who they are not from! once again...

YOUR SECOND PICTURE LOOKS NOTHING LIKE THE FIRST!!!!

[CMGREPTILES]

YOUR OUT OF YOUR MIND THAT IS THE SAME ANIMAL. LOOK AT MARKINGS OR SOMETHING. IM NOT A DAMN PHOTOGRAPHER AND I APOLIGIZE FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART TO THE PUBLIC AND YOU HEARD IT FIRST HERE ON FAUNA,---CMG REPTILES CANT TAKE PICTURES WORTH A DAMN---- THERE ARE YOU HAPPY. THERE IS NO ANIMAL BEING MISREPRESENTED YOUR FULL OF CRAP AND IF PEOPLE BUY INTO YOUR CRAP THEN I DONT WANT THERE BUISNESS ANYWAY BUT THANKS AND YOU HAVE YOURSELF A WONDERFUL HOLIDAYS AND HOPE YOU FIND WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR IN LIFE WITH YOUR BASHING TACTICS

CHRIS
CMG REPTILES

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

I will say this, in the first ad the HIGH HIGH ad the snake on the left in the middle pic (the clear bright good picture) is the same as the animal in the pic on the left (single blurry picture). But that animal is not the same animal that is in the new pictures that were posted in the ad where you are supposedly calling out Rene.

[CMGREPTILES]

Ok what would you like for me to do to prove this? Would you like me to take a pic of the animal on a newspaper dated today? Would that help. Also i have told rene to contact me on the phone to handle this and he refuses. Maybe because he relizes hes full of crap and jumped into something he didnt know all the details? i dont know but thats my guess. And also why would i sell hets with a 100% money back with compinsation gaurantee if they were not real. Anyone who was at the VA show this weekend saw the high end animals on my 6 tables. As well as the albino in question and some pastels and other high end animals. Another thing if those pics were stolen then how the hell did i steal them. He never posted those pics for me to steal. And as much animals i sell through kingsnake why the hell would i post something i dont have like that?? Doesnt ad up. All ive seen is useless accusations. All this is is somebody trying to ruin my reputation. Im not going to sit here and lie and say i have never had a problem with customers because when dealing with the public you will but i have always stood behind my animals more than the average people so i take great offense when someone tries to bad mouth me but thats ok there will always be an idiot in the bunch. If you know rene personally then contact him and ask him if he knows where i got those pics from. if they were in fact stolen.

CHRIS
CMG REPTILES

[ALLTHINGSREPTIL]

This is nothing less than rediculous. I have bought hets directly form C.M.G. and they have proved out everytime. I have also been to there facility and seen first hand the animals they have. I would not think twice about any animals they have posted. So whoever this Rene is Why dont you go after the real scam artists out there instead of trying to ruin the names of honest businesses.
Sincerely
John Mcallister



"THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ONE TO RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE"

[The BoidSmith]

I will say this, in the first ad the HIGH HIGH ad the snake on the left in the middle pic (the clear bright good picture) is the same as the animal in the pic on the left (single blurry picture). But that animal is not the same animal that is in the new pictures that were posted in the ad where you are supposedly calling out Rene.

Could someone point me to those pictures?

Thanks.

[rmontez]

what a butt kisser here are the two pictures you are saying are the same snake, I don't question if they are the same snake or not, what I am saying is you are using pictures of a young very high contrast albino to try and sell an albino that has faded out. Everyone says the second picture you posted is cleary not the same in contrast as the original post you made. Judge for yoursleves, here are the pictures.

this is the picture from the original post.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~rmontez/twins.jpg

this is the second post picture.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~rmontez/fraud6.jpg

can you all not clearly see the difference in the representation of the albino. Still I would like to know how Chris came about these being N.E.R.D. line albinos or now VPI/Bell line albinos??

John Mcallister if you don't see a difference in the pictures then you buy the one he is listing as HIGH CONTRAST and see how you feel when you open the box and see a faded albino...

guess I don't know how to post pics here but you can click on the links to see the pictures.

Rene Montez

[The BoidSmith]

Rene,

The animal in the right on the first picture, is the same animal in the second picture. Yes, it has faded as it usually happens in most adult albinos (boas included) when compared to a baby. Have you ever seen the picture of an adult albino that maintained the same color intensity as it had as a baby? In more than one ocassion I have seen well known breeders sell those high contrast albino babies as such: "high contrast albinos". I might be wrong, but I always understood it referred more to the clearly defined areas of white and yellow, and not to the intensity of the yellow.

Regards.

[Odd Ball Exotics]

This is about useing pictures without permission and trying to pass something off for what it's not (A NERD line...not what it acctually is).

Would it have been so hard of CMG to ask his "friend" where he got the pictures so that he could have asked the person that took them if he could have his permission to use them?

And what I cant understand is why CMG is calling it a NERD line....dont they know where their animals come from? I could tell you the bloodline of my animals as far back as the breeder could tell me. (Who they got the parents from at the very least!)

In my eyes CMG lacks common sense in not asking permission to use the pictures, and also lack common sense in not asking where his animals came from.

I dont know if he's outwardly trying to scam anyone, but I'm not sure if I would buy from someone that doesn't know where his stock came from.

[The BoidSmith]

This is about useing pictures without permission and trying to pass something off for what it's not (A NERD line...not what it acctually is).

He used pictures of an animal he currently owns without permission of a previous owner. What we oftentimes see is exactly the opposite, people using pictures of snakes they don't actually own.

Why he wanted to pass the snake as NERD's is up to him to explain. Why NERD instead of Ralph Davis? Beats me! Either one has enough of a reputation of high quality animals to make that snake more saleable.

Would it have been so hard of CMG to ask his "friend" where he got the pictures so that he could have asked the person that took them if he could have his permission to use them?

It's Chris that needs to answer this. Maybe his friend didn't even tell him the pictures were not his in the first place.

Kindly.

[CMGREPTILES]

I used the pics because they were sent to me and to my knowledge they were from my friend. Ill take the blame for no making sure they were his pics but i didnt think it was that important because he sent me the animals out. And like i told rene i was under the impression that it was a NERD line animal. i found out 2 nights ago that it was a bell/ vpi cross. sorry for the confusion but Rene decided to leave out the whole details of this but thats his decision. Again i was given those pics because those were the pics of animals i was getting so i dont see where i misrepresented anything.

chris

[rmontez]

I did not try to leave any information out! You posted who the breeder was not me.

Can some please teach me how to post pictures here?

Thanks
Rene

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Rene,

posting images here is similar to posting images on any of the EZboard forums like Chondroweb.

www.mypictureishere.com/myphoto

That is how it would look when you type it out(different link of course), but after it gets posted it will show up here as your image.

Hope that helps out buddy! And by the way, you need to make it back over to the chat sometime. ;)

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Whoops, that didn't work.

Put this in front of your image link [IMG]
At the end of the link, put the same thing, only with a / in front of the IMG.

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Or you can up-load it from your PC directly to the Fauna Server. At the bottom of the "Reply" window you can attatch a jpg or gif directly from your PC. Use the "Preview" button to see if the pic will fit. If it is too large it will tell you so, and tell you what size you should re-size the photo to.

[CMGREPTILES]

OK HERE IS THE PICS RENE IS SAYING ARE NOT THE SAME ANIMAL. NOW LOOK AT THE PIC OF THE TWO SNAKES TOGETHER. THE SNAKE ON THE RIGHT HAS 2 DISTINCTIVE WHITE DOTS A FEW INCHES DOWN ON ITS SIDE IN THE YELLOW PATTERN. HMMMMM NOW LOOK AT THE ANIMAL AT MY HOUSE BY ITSELF AND LOOK DOWN ITS SIDE. THAT LOOKS LIKE SOME COINSIDENCE ISNT IT. LIKE I SAID FROM THE START I NEVER MISREPRESENTED A THING THE ANIMAL IN BOTH PICS ARE THE SAME. BUT EVEN THOUGH I CANT STAND YOU FOR THE CRAP YOU HAVE STARTED RENE I WILL SAY THIS. YOU PRODUCE SOME NICE ANIMALS AND THAT IS A COMPLIMANT TO YOUR ANIMALS NOT TO YOU AS A PERSON SO DONT TAKE IT THE WRONG WAY.

CHRIS
CMG REPTILES

[CMGREPTILES]

SORRY HERES THE OTHER PIC OF THE ANIMAL I OWN
CHRIS
CMG REPTILES

[The BoidSmith]

Chris,

I don't think anyone questioned the snake in the right and the one in the other picture are the same. What Rene questioned was the fact that: 1. You were using his pictures to advertise the animal, and 2. The yellow faded in the animal in the second picture.

[CMGREPTILES]

OK I UNDERSTAND HE TOOK THE PICS BUT THE PICS WERE SENT TO ME BUY THE GUY WHO SOLD THE ANIMAL TO ME SO I DIDNT QUESTION WHERE THE PICS CAME FROM. ALSO CHECK OUT KINGSNAKE NOW. I FINALLY TOOK SOME HALF DECENT PICS OF THE ANIMAL. BUT SHE IS AN AWESOME HIGH CONTRAST ANIMAL AND LIKE I SAID EARLIER RENE TRIED TO DAMAGE MY NAME POINT BLANK BY POSTING THAT CRAP ON KINGSNAKE WHICH IS NOT THE CORRECT PLACE TO POST THAT CRAP. SO IF THIS BOILS DOWN TO AN ISSUE OF ME USING HIS PICS WELL HE NEEDS TO GET OVER IT AND DEAL WITH THE ONE HE SENT THEM TO NOT WITH ME. I GOT THOSE PICS SENT TO ME AND WHY SHOULD I HAVE QUESTIONED THE PICS? THEY WERE PICS OF THE ANIMAL I BOUGHT AND THAT WAS THAT. BUT I KNOW IM TYPING IN CAPS BUT IM JUST REALLY PISSED OFF OVER THIS CRAP AND I DONT MEAN TO YELL AT YOU IM JUST YELLING TO BE HEARD.
THANKS ALOT
CHRIS
CMG REPTILES

[snakemanexotics]

I have been dealing with Chris and Melissa for over a year and have had only positive results. I have been to his place several times and his animals are clean, well taken care of, and what he says he has...he does. Just this week i purchased a beautiful pastel ball and the transaction was smooth and flawless as usual. Of all the hets i have bought from chris, i have no dout that they will prove out. I have seen HIS albino balls and columbians.

[rmontez]

Thanks Alvaro, that is exactly what I am saying. Chris just refuses to understand what I am saying!! Anyone can use any picture I have ever taken to sell an animal 1. as long as it truely is that animals and 2. it represents the animal accuratley. If not I will speak up!

Thanks again
Rene

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Guess I'll jump in here like I know what I’m doing or something and have my say~

I don't know either player in this drama…….but I have met Rene on another snake related board, and he seems to be a pretty decent fellow.

I don't know Chris at all.....but I don't think his intent was being a bad guy.

I can sure see why Rene thought so.......it sure looks like it too if you look at it from his side. When I first saw it, I sure thought you must be a colossal bad guy/jerk wad Chris. When Rene found your add he had no way of knowing you had purchased that snake…….it looked like EXACTLY what he thought, like what we all see in this business all too often lately. It looked like you had stolen the pics to sell none-existent snakes. Think about it Chris…..if they were your pics of snakes your bred, and you saw that add from someone you never heard of, trying to sell snakes from a DIFFERENT line with your pics………….you would have thought the same thing. And yes, you probably would have started promptly griping about it. If not~ well then you’re a better person than I am. I would have been PISSED and VOCAL.

Now…….I understand why you got defensive Chris. And why your feeling a bit put upon here………but whether you knew it or not the first error WAS YOURS. You used a pic that did not belong to you, without proper permission and mis-labeled the line that snake was from. And those first pics you took to “Prove” you owned her……..well those pics where pretty crappy (and you said something about crappy photo’s while using Rene’s photo to top it all off!). You can’t be surprised Rene (and me, and I bet some others) still thought you were lying.

I think (*think* I don’t actually know him) Rene is actually a quite reasonable person……..and if you explained the situation and apologized for using the photo he probably would have retracted his negative comments about you.

Now there has been some heated words back and forth~ but it probably is not too late to apologize. It’s worth a try anyway.

~ Or I’m feeling just entirely too “Polly Anna” tonight and need a drink.
Tootles and Good Luck guys!

[Vegeta]

Hi I just wanted to share my experience with Chris from CMG.Ive done some trades with him in the past and got nothing but great animals from him.im sure he mite of made some mistakes and we all do..no one is perfect.Chris is a really great person and if u have met him in person im sure u would say so yourself..Well i gtg now but I hope this subject drops soon cause I dont like to see bad things happen to good people..Alex Lee

[CMGREPTILES]

Ok to end this once and for all. I apoligize for using the pics that rene had apparentlly took of animals he produced. But i was sent the pics by the one i bought the animal from so i didnt think to question the pics. Sorry. But that is the only thing i believe that is remotely my fault. I dont think i misrepresented the animal at all about being high contrast because she is. The pics just are not good quality. the animal that rene produced is a smoking animal. I was also obviously mixed up on the lines of the animal so here is what i have found out about the animal. She is a product of a Sharp albino male bred to a V.P.I het female. Now if this is not correct with you Rene please correct me. Maybe i need to buy a new digital cam and that would solve alot of this. And to clear up the rest of the bashing attemps both on Renes part and mt own, I was highly upset that before figuring this out 1 on 1 Rene posted me on the front pages of the ball python classifieds on kingsnake instead of on here to give me a chance to clear this misunderstanding up. To me that was a direct bash at me and i felt it to be an attempt to trash my name on a forum that was not created for that kind of issues. I returned the bash on kingsnake for a reason and that was so i could clear up the accusations against me on kingsnake so people reading that would see. I apoligize to the INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE for that. But i do not sell animals that i do not own nor do i misrepresent animals. And if i get wrong info or i make a mistake i correct it when it becomes aware to me. Im only human. I hope this clears this up and hope this is finally a dead subject cause now it is just getting rediculous and i do not wish to keep this going any further. I believe this blown up to be bigger then it was on both myself and Renes part.

THANKS ALOT
CHRIS
CMG REPTILES

[The BoidSmith]

Anyone has a phone number for Chris Guida. I've been having trouble today trying to reach him via e-mail.

Thanks in advance.

[The BoidSmith]

I finally did get an e-mail from Chris today stating he decided to take off the market the snake he had posted for sale.

Thanks anyways! :)

[The BoidSmith]

The opinion of those that are ball pyhton connoiseurs will be greatly appreciated. This female is up for sale for best offer (900 g).

[SNAKESALLAROUND]

Ive seen the animal in person at a show and i have to say it is an awesome animal. The only thing i cant understand is why they want to sell it. But i talked to them for awhile and basically its for sale or trade for he righ price whatever that means. Ralph davis sold one that he produced for 20 grand last year. Even though the bodies look kinda different the heads are the same and who knows this may be the next big thing. Imagine a blackhead albino or a blackhead pastel, that would be hot. If i had the loot id take the chance. But i think they are trying to trade for other morphs more than the cash. At least thats the vibe i got from them. Im thinking about that axanthic, its a real nice male but they told me he might be traded already. Anyway thats my time.



Peace j-dog

[snakebstr]

I am not sure what is up with chris and rene montez. But I did a deal with Rene Montez on a 1.1 pair of kenyan sand boas a few years ago, Guess what I got 2.0 Kenyan sand boas, then he went on the kingsnake board and posted me as a bad guy and tried to rip him off because I would send the package back and pay for it then he would send me my money...needless to say I made him send the shipping before I shipped. So unless Chris doesn't send the snake I purchased from him I am on his side because I have had bad dealing with RENE MONTEZ. Thanks DAVID

[The BoidSmith]

David,

Maybe I'm a little slow today but to be honest with you I did not understand what the problem was. What does Chris have to do with Montez? What was the deal with the KSBs?

Kindly.

[snakebstr]

From what I read it looked like Rene was on Chris's case about some photo of an albino ball and wether chris was a scammer. I was just making reference to a deal that went bad with me and RENE Montez...where RENE posted bad stuff about me for NO reason at all. Here is the storie...I don't remember all of the details but Rene posted to Kenyan sand boas(1.1 adults) I believe we were gonna do a trade. Well when I got the snakes it was 2.0 and I told him I didn't need the 2 males, he wanted me to ship back to him and then he would send me the shipping. Well of course I would do that so he posted that I was trying to scam him out of 35.00 and his 2 snakes, and that was not the case. I just didn't want him to never pay me back for shipping his 2 male kenyans back to him. But anyway all I was saying is I personally do not think RENE cares who he trys to bash or if it is true or not. A lot of people read the BOI and people can say anything they want on here and you may not see it for several days by the time you find out about it the damage is done and you may not even be guilty of what who ever is saying, belive me I have been on the posts and convicted before I even knew what was going on. Even though I told the people responceably they were full of it they still slammed me. But anyway If we find a real CROOK OK post about it But people should not post anything on here BEFORE trying to resolve the problem or whatever with the person in question FIRST. I just believe Rene did that with chris. Thanks DAVID

[SNAKESALLAROUND]

If you look at what chris was accused of it was all for nothing. he bought an animal from a friend and this friend sent him the pics of the animal first. chris bought the animal to resale and used the pics that he was sent to sell the animal. how was he supposed to know the pics were not taken by his friend. also he was accused of the fact the animal in the pics was different then the animal he sold or was going to sell. thats ludicris. it was the same animal. he sent me the same pics and he sent me pics of the animal about a week ago on newspaper with the date on it cause i was intrested in buying the animal. so i think there is alot of trying to damage a good person going on here.




my thoughts
jason

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Kind of sneaky to throw your bad guy report in on the 9th page of a thread with someone elses name in the subject line. Kind of sounds like

"people can say anything they want on here and you may not see it for several days by the time you find out about it the damage is done and you may not even be guilty of what who ever is saying"

Hmmmmmmmm..............................

[snakebstr]

WHAT? Does all that mean cheryl? Explain. Thanks

[snakebstr]

If your saying I am saying Rene is a bad guy, I don't think that is what I was saying. I was SAYING Don't BELIEVE EVERYTHING RENE SAYS because I know first Hand He misjudges people and jumps the gun with out having the facts. I never said don't deal with him. I just Explained my situation with him(RENE). thanks

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Maybe I read it different than you intended in writing it. It is early and I've not had enough coffee. It read to ME like you were trying to get a dig in where it would only be noticed by a few people, if that's not what you were trying to do~ okay, I'll just have another cup of coffee and go back to cage cleaning.

[snakebstr]

Nah I didn't try and do that. I just wanted people to know what happend to me with RENE and that Maybe in The case where Rene is accusing Chris of the stuff he did in this post that maybe its not true since He accused me of trying to rip him off when in return I just didn't want him to be able to Screw me out of shipping costs since he wanted me to pay first for shipping his snakes back to him. And when I said NO he called me a CROOK on the kingsnake Black list. I thought at the time he had NO reason to Post anything about me. I ws just trying to get his snakes back to him without getting ripped myself... Not that he would have...But in this day and time anything is possible. thanks

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Internet is a great tool for comminication~ problem is, we can't "Read" all those subtle cues that often make all the difference in what we MEAN when we speak. Could be my crabby no coffee mood colored what you wrote to look more hatefull than your intent.

Peace~ Tootles,
Cheryl

[Bill Rodriquez]

Hets or Not ??????????

I would like to make my contribution on the inquiry of CMG Reptiles. On 3-3-2004 CMG advertised 0.2- 2003 100% Het. Albino Boas for sale. I e-mailed them expressing intrest in them. CMG e-mailed me back that they were still available for sale, and they came with a money back gaurantee Receipt signed by Chris , since they were Hets. On 3-4-2004 I sent a M.O. via Fed-Ex overnight in the amount of 500.00 for their purchase. On 3-8-2004 Chris shipped boas, they arrived on 3-9-2004. They were packed very well, and animals were flawless, however there was no paperwork on these animals. I contacted Chris back on 3-9-2004 inquiring about Receipt, he stated he would send it out. On 3-18-2004, no Receipt, I contacted him back. He stated that he was going to get Receipt notorized to protect both of us better, and it would go out in mail next morning. On 3-25-2004 no Receipt, I contacted him. He stated he couldn't get a straight answer from his employees on Receipt, but that he was going to Re-do it and send it out in morning. On 4-5-2004 nothing yet, I contacted Chris via e-mail, his response was to e-mail him my address that he would send it out priority mail next day. Well 4-6-2004 Nothing yet. I e-mailed Chris but got no response. I am a straight forward and honest person and I don't appreciate being Lied to. I am not in any way trying to make Chris out a bad person, he is doing it to himself. He even states in a post from he made himself on 12-10-2003 @ 5:12 p.m. ( QUOTE) To clear up confusion I always give a money back gaurantee on all my 100% Hets. after 2 cosecutive breedings. I will always offer whatever I need to make sure anyone I deal with is satisfied with the Hets. they get from me. I am not questioning quality of his animals, just the integrity of his business practices. So here it is 4-6-2004, I don't know if the boas I purchased are Hets. or not. I will just have to wait and see.


Thanks
Bill Rodriquez

[DD'S REPTILES]

Well i know chris and he is a busy person but he stated in his thread that he stands behind the animals. and whether you see it or not you are making him out to be a bad guy. we have spent alot of money with him this year and have been totally satisfied. we also just proved out het clowns we bought from him last year. but i just cant stand when people post on here and jump the gun and trash people especially good people. but i guess that is what this site is designed to do. so trash away but i will spend more money with them any chance i get.


DD
REPTILES

[Bill Rodriquez]

I am not trying to trash chris in any way shape or form,but it shouldn't take a month to resolve this little matter. I have already stated that the animals he sold me were flawless, and that his shipping was excellant,if I was trying to trash him I would have found problems with that most likely also. All he needs to do is to give me what I should have rightfully gotten in the begining. When this happens I will have a very different outlook on this matter and I will repost on the BOI about the results. This in my opinion and others should have never taken a month to get a gaurantee. I have bought Het. animals from other individuals and never had to fool around for over a month to get something. I am a business person also and at times I get very busy, but I don't forget my goal of customer satisfaction.

Thank You
Bill Rodriquez

[The BoidSmith]

Melissa,

In my opinion Bill didn't trash Chris in any way. The fact is that he has been very civil. He paid for something that he did not get. He paid for animals WITH paperwork, and he never received the latter. It is not that there was no communication with the seller. He apparently contacted him repeatedly and always received a similar answer, that he will receive them sometime in the near future. That never happened. The only guarantee Bill has on the genetics of those animals is the paperwork. Hopefully Chris will get back to him with the documentation shortly.

Regards.

[SNAKESALLAROUND]

herer we go again with alvaro,s 2 cents. you must have nothing to do in a days time but to get in the middle of things. but anyways i know chris is good for his word but he is a busy person and i had to wait on paperwork as well. but the bottom line is he strates his policies on his ads and on here so ant of that can be used against him as well but i guess you didnt think about that did ya? any way chris is a good dude to deal with so i wouldnt worry about getting screwed cause its not like hes going anywhere.






jason b in the place to be

[The BoidSmith]

herer we go again with alvaro,s 2 cents. you must have nothing to do in a days time but to get in the middle of things.

It seems you are upset at me. It also seems you understand expressing one's opinion on an issue is getting in the way. Interesting concept. Time...time is so relative...who was it that said that? ;)

but anyways i know chris is good for his word but he is a busy person and i had to wait on paperwork as well.

The fact that you had to go through something similar in no way changes matters. You shouldn't have had to. Maybe being so "busy" is not such a good thing after all. You are surelyas busy a person as I am, nevertheless we found the time to express our opinion in here. Not a minor thing to stand for a friend, or even stand up for someone you don't even know. It shows you care...

[thing makes me thing but the bottom line is he strates his policies on his ads and on here so ant of that can be used against him as well but i guess you didnt think about that did ya?

I'm not sure I understand your point. He states his policies in his ads? What does that have to do with not sending the paperwork with the animals?

any way chris is a good dude to deal with so i wouldnt worry about getting screwed cause its not like hes going
anywhere.

No one labeled Chris a bad Guy, not even Bill. Whether you like it ot not Bill paid for something he did not receive (and it is not it was never requested and replied to). Nevertheless I'm confident Chris will send the paperwork shortly. How long did it take for you to receive yours?

Kindly.

[SNAKESALLAROUND]

the point i was making was everyone knows his policies with his hets since he has put them out there on public forums. just find one more person out there or company that offers a full money back guarantee on hets. and he has posted that in his ad and his previous posts. but all im saying is a guaranee is worth as much as you trust the person who gave it since they are all based on ones word so if someone trusts the person enough to buy the animal then the rest is technically irelevent dont ya think? i mean i could send you a couple of normals and tell you they are hets and send you some paperwork but this isnt the a.k.c where paperwork is backed buy a profesional registry. the paperwork is basically an extension of ones word and that is about as plainly as i can put it.




jason

[The BoidSmith]

the point i was making was everyone knows his policies with his hets since he has put them out there on public forums. just find one more person out there or company that offers a full money back guarantee on hets.

Jason,

I hear you, but let me give you just one example of the several that have been bouncing around this forum. How about Harry Eisenmann a.k.a Digital Reptiles/HCE/Carolina Reptile Exchange. He offers the same type og guarantee.

This has nothing to do with doubting Chris' honesty. I have bought heteros from the Sutherlands, Ralph Davis, Dan Wolfe, Steve Osborne, etc. Although they are among the most trustworthy breeders in the country they have always sent proof of genetics with their animals. They don't offer the money back guarantee if the animals don't produce the morphs after two breedings. And you know what? They don't need it. Again I'm not saying Chris needs it I'm just stating the facts of well-known, respectable breeders.

This is just an example and he has posted that in his ad and his previous posts. but all im saying is a guaranee is worth as much as you trust the person who gave it since they are all based on ones word so if someone trusts the person enough to buy the animal then the rest is technically irelevent dont ya think?

Yes I agree with you, and it is precisely what I meant when giving the example of those breeders.

the paperwork is basically an extension of ones word and that is about as plainly as i can put it.

Exactly. But if you offer it as a sales pitch, you need to send it. If you tell the buyer that is going to be sent tomorrow it has to be there tomorrow. If you can't (things happen), call and tell him why and when he can't expect it.

Have a good one!

[dwedeking]

the paperwork is basically an extension of ones word and that is about as plainly as i can put it.

In the sense of whether you actually get hets or not, you are 100% correct. The issue comes into play if the hets do not prove out and you wind up in a legal situation. Signed paperwork gives you much more fire power in front of a judge, compared to "he said, she said" 2 years later (things can be remembered in error after 2 years when it comes to conversations, not in the case of signed paperwork). Basically the customer paid for this extra peace of mind, and like any other service deserves to receive it.

For the record we've sold items to Chris, and I've spoken briefly with him via email and this error in judgement seems out of character and can easily be remedied. Hopefully he will soon.

[The BoidSmith]

If you can't (things happen), call and tell him why and when he can't expect it.

Sorry, I meant:

If you can't (things happen), call and tell him why and when he canexpect it.

Jason,

A while ago one of these two-year guarantees was posted in this site as a topic of dicussion (it came from an ad posted in ks). Maybe someone remembers where it is and can provide a link to the thread in question. The person (company?) offering the following guarantee:

1. The person trying to breed the animals should demonstrate he knows what he is doing. I'm not sure what he meant by that.

2. He has to fail to produce the morph in question after two breedings. Those of us that have bred constrictors know it is not for everyone to breed them, let alone twice. Females can breed one year and skip the next. So from babies until you prove them out it could very well be 6 years.

3. Pictures of the actual copulation need to be provided Again this is for both failed breedings. Doable but...

4. Pictures of the actual oviposition (in pythons) need to be provided Again this is for both failed breedings. This request will be very difficult to fulfill if at all.

5. Pictures of the hatching moment need to be provided Again this is for both failed breedings.

Of course this is in the event you had bought both heteros from the same person because if one came from another source you can claim nothing as he can not guarantee the other animal.

Thanks.

[SNAKESALLAROUND]

we also know that with hets even if you produce them and breed them yourself you dont always produce the morph. that is the gamble you get with hets. but if you dont want to spend the money and buy the morph than thats the risk you take. and all the garuantees out there that i know of when dealing with balls is for the second breeding. now with boas you will prove on the first breeding for the most part. but do yourself a favor and dont quote others and apply it to somebodies thread. that is what is wrong with the people who use this site. they get away from the integrity of the original posts. this thread started buy people questioning chris,s integrity with the het boas. he specifically said that they were produced by a het kahl to a het sharp and that he wasnt standing buy that you will produce albinos, that is why the price was 100.00. it waqs a breeding of 2 strains that were not compatible with eachother and now we are off on a whole other tangent. this is the last post im responding to since i feel that it has been proven time and time again that chris is not a bad guy. but certain people here like to still try and put thier 2 cents in to try and ruin good people.






jason

[Glenn Bartley]

but certain people here like to still try and put thier 2 cents in to try and ruin good people. So exactly what is it you are trying to do to Alvaro? Good grief, this is an open, did I spell that correctly OPEN forum for anyone who took the time to register on this site. Get it, this is an open discussion. Alvaro did not try to ruin anyone, as I can see, but did state his opinion; which by the way he is free to do on this OPEN forum. Now you try to steer the whole discussion away from the points that were made by labeling him a bad mouther. I wonder, what does that make you?

The fact of the matter is that Chris did, if I understand correctly, misstated the lineage of the snake(s) in question. He also apparently used pics that were not his to use. There is no reason for anyone to suspect that this was necessarily a good guy thing to do, but there surely is a reason for someone to suspect it as a bad guy thing to do. So a thread was created and a discussion followed. The matter was probably cleared up, but some side issues evolved - just as in a normal discussion.

One side issue, not too far aside as it does relate to Chris's integrity, was the issue of someone not receiving a receipt for goods bought and paid for. Remember this thread was not initially about the pics of the snake(s) in question, or their lineage, it was an inquiry about CMG Reptiles, so any relevant bad guy info would apply, as would any relevant good guy info. So, whether or not Chris is a good guy does or bad guy, could hinge on such things as his business practices, and if it is indeed a fact that he did not send out a receipt in a timely manner that would be relevant to this discussion. Not sending out a promised receipt, on a timely basis, would not be a good thing. Not only is the receipt allegedly not timely, the receipt is way overdue; yet Chris has had, if I understood correctly (and if the person who stated such is to be believed), much time: to chastise his employees about it, to answer emails about, and to post in this thread about other things. Of course that would cause concern, and of course it could naturally be brought up in this thread, and of course someone like Alvaro could comment on it.

In fact, allow me to comment on it too in a hypothetical manner: I would have returned the animals by now for a refund at the expense of Chris for his not keeping his part of the deal in that he had not sent the promised signed receipt. Allegedly he has not kept up his side of the deal. Remember this, your word against another person's word in a sales dispute is one thing in court. Your word plus a signed receipt from the seller plus the goods from the seller that do not match what was in that signed receipt are a ball of fire in a civil or criminal proceeding. The Romans said it well thousands of years ago: Caveat Emptor (Buyer Beware). Regardless of anyone's reputation, including Chris's, you would have to be less than intelligent to just take someone at their word if you have never met them before for a fairly expensive deal, especially if they did not completed all the terms of that deal as they had promised. As I see it, Chris has used some pretty bad business practices in at least a couple of his business dealings. Does that make him a bad guy, not necessarily, especially since others have gone to bat for him. What it does do though, is it allows the consumer to have some knowledge of what has gone on, and then to make up his/her own mind in well thought out way before deciding to deal with Chris. If Chris actually did the things that were alleged, well then it is not Alvaro or anyone on this forum who has ruined him, Chris's own actions may have done that in some people's eyes. Then again, why would this necessarily ruin him, maybe he will see that some of his business practices were at least reasonably questionable by others, and maybe he will strive to change the questionable ones for the better. That would not ruin him, but rather improve him.

So again, what was you point? Seems to me it was just to throw in your .02 cents, so why bad mouth Alvaro for doing likewise? Your .02 cents are welcome here, even when they disagree with other, but so are those of everyone else.


On a more general note to this thread:

By the way, I was and remain quite curious that no one on this thread ever said anything (I don't remember it anyhow) as to how the two pictures in question were taken under obviously very different lighting and back drop conditions. The second picture shown in Chris's post of the two small pics (I am guessing that was the one in question as the links to it provided by others never worked for me) was obviously done with too much flash - way to much flash, on a light substrate and with a light and reflective background. That was the pic of the lone snake. The one of the pair, was probably done with the f-stop of the camera pushed down at least one full f-stop so as to darken the pic and was apparently done under diffused light. Such would enhance any color contrast and definitely would enhance color saturation. Of course that pic could have also been doctored in processing either on a PC or during development if film was used (please note I am not saying it was doctored or that the f-stop was purposefully bracketed down, some cameras are notorious for under or over exposure). Heck I have seen pics in the same ad that were taken by the same person within seconds of each other that look very different (I know they were my pics when I was in a hurry). It especially happens when someone does not understand any concept of lighting for photography except that he/she needs enough light, or when some is purposefully trying to achieve a desired photographic effect.

When you look at both of those pics, the one taken by Chris and the one taken by Rene, which would you rather use to sell your animal. I would opt for the pic of both of them. The pic of the lone animal is probably not too close to what it even actually looked like even if the snake had faded with age - it is just a terrible photograph with way to much over exposure due to the apparent direct flash. Of course, I understand permission should have been obtained to use the pic of the pair, but I also understand Chris thinking it was someone else's (other than Rene's) photo and his believing that he did have a right to use it. Hopefully someone learned something from all this, and the future will hold less problems like this.

All the best,
Glenn B

[The BoidSmith]

. but do yourself a favor and dont quote others and apply it to somebodies thread. that is what is wrong with the people who use this site.

Jason,

People new to this site sometimes bring up things that those that have been here for a long time did not see. In just a couple of months and without even doing a little research they are able to pinpoint the problems right away. That is why we encourage and believe everyone's opinion to be relevant, even if we don't nessarily agree with them.

they get away from the integrity of the original posts. this thread started buy people questioning chris,s integrity with the het boas.

This post started with an original request of information by Robert (hetero pieds), Joe (boas), and myself (female ball pythons). It was then diverted to albino ball pythons, and finally to boas. You are new to the site. In fact you started posting a couple of months after this thread started. It is understandable then that you have missed that part.

this is the last post im responding to since i feel that it has been proven time and time again that chris is not a bad guy. but certain people here like to still try and put thier 2 cents in to try and ruin good people.

You seem to have the fixed idea that we (me?) are labeling Chris a bad guy and want to ruin his reputation. Would you please be so kind and show me one instance where I personally did so? Please do yourself a favor and go back and read the whole thread again. Read the albino ball python issue carefully and you will notice I defended Chris in that instance. He came in he explained, apologized, and done with that.

The issue with the undelivered paperwork is a completely different one. He offered for sale animals with paperwork. Personally I would have done exactly as Glenn suggested. No paperwork provided? The snakes are then going back for a full refund. By requesting something you have paid for and not received you are not labeling someone as a bad guy, you are just asking for what is rightfully yours.

Maybe if I repeat myself again you will hear me out: I really hope Chris sends this paperwork shortly.

[The BoidSmith]

Except that it was posted by CMG today:

1.0 ALBINO MALE AND 0.1 ANERY FEMALE WITH A BONUS 1300.00
VIRGINIA
Posted by (Contact Me!) on April 11, 2004 at 15:32:19
Registered PetHobbyist User since 2003-07-01

Click on thumbnails to view fullsize in a new window

I HAVE AN ALBINO MALE AN A ANERY FEMALE FOR SALE FOR 1300.00. THE BONUS IS THAT THEY ARE POSS HET SNOWS. BUT IM NOT SELLING THEM AS HET SNOWS. AND AT THIS PRICE THEY WILL BE GONE. YESTERDAY I POSTED THEM WITHOUT PICS AND THE RESPONSE WAS CRAZY. I TOOK PICS AND HERE THEY ARE. FIRST PERSON WHO PAYS GETS THEM. PAYPAL PRICE IS 1350.00 AND POST OFFICE MONEY ORDER SENT WITH A TRACKING NUMBER PRIORITY PRICE IS 1300.00 SHIPPING IS 40.00

The bolding is mine to point the obvious. It is against the TOS of Paypal for the seller to charge the Paypal fee. In this situation he is not only charging 3% (the usually Paypal fee) but 3.85% instead (I guess to round the figure off to $50).

Anyone can ask whatever they want for their merchandise. But by stating that the price is $1300 or $1350 if paid with Paypal he is clearly showing he is charging the customers 3.85% on top of the asking price.

Regards.

[snakemanexotics]

almost everybody charges for paypal
so he's charging an extra .85 % to round out the #
even the Loves charge you more when you buy a
corn snake manual & you use paypal
grow up stop nit picking everything everybody does
go get a life , i say this cause with the amount of post you
have you most do nothing else but sit in front of your
computer & wait for someone to make a mistake
so now you can trash me for sticking up for someone
& if you look at this post probable for spelling something
wrong so i guess it make me a bad snake breeder

ps i to charge for paypal

[The BoidSmith]

Rich,

If you are going to be using Paypal, you might as well be aware of their terms of service. You can read them at the link below:

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside#legal_relationship

Go to that page and read IV. Received payments, point 5, as quoted below:

No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods). Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website.

The handling fee (lets assume the $50 was that) can not be higher than transactions through other methods, in this case paying by money order.

almost everybody charges for paypal
so he's charging an extra .85 % to round out the #
even the Loves charge you more when you buy a
corn snake manual & you use paypal

No, I'm sorry to contradict you, it is a minority that does it,and they should not be doing it.

[/QUOTE]grow up stop nit picking everything everybody does
go get a life , i say this cause with the amount of post you
have you most do nothing else but sit in front of your
computer & wait for someone to make a mistake
so now you can trash me for sticking up for someone
& if you look at this post probable for spelling something
wrong so i guess it make me a bad snake breeder[/QUOTE]

No, you are not going to be for expressing your opinion, you are entitled to it. Sticking up for someone is great! Although it is important make sure you are sticking up for the right thing and/or person. Constructive criticism for the betterment of the hobby/business is always welcome!

With regards to bad spelling IMHO it has nothing to do with being a good breeder/keeper of snakes. It helps when writing ads though.

I charge for paypal

Add it to your final price. If you want $100 for your herp sell it for $103. What you can't say is that you sell for $100 plus a surcharge of 3%.

Best regards! ;)

[Ken Harbart]

Originally posted by snakemanexotics
almost everybody charges for paypal
so he's charging an extra .85 % to round out the #
even the Loves charge you more when you buy a
corn snake manual & you use paypal
grow up stop nit picking everything everybody does
go get a life , i say this cause with the amount of post you
have you most do nothing else but sit in front of your
computer & wait for someone to make a mistake
so now you can trash me for sticking up for someone
& if you look at this post probable for spelling something
wrong so i guess it make me a bad snake breeder

ps i to charge for paypal

So... you're admitting that
a) You don't abide by terms of service that you agreed to.
b) You're commiting a crime, as per NY law.

Well, looks like I can add another person to my list of dishonest herpers.

[snakemanexotics]

Alvaro ,
i'm sorry i did not mean to come across nasty
about get a life & stop nit picking but
people have said stuff about me & others about
misspelling when they knew what we meant
it just seems that nobody wants to be nice any more here
i thought this was made to help people and for us to chat
not just rip other people apart
yea if someone is not honest say something but thats it
maybe someone made a mistake we do that every once
& a while or at least i do
i'm just tired of seeing peolpe come out of the wood work
after someone says something bad about smoeone else
if they have beef with someone start a new thread

& you are right everybody should put the 3% in right away
i hope you understand me i wasn't made at you personally

[Ken Harbart]

Okay, it seems that I was a bit grumpy after spending the better part of the day onboard a C-130. My apologies to Rich for my gruff reply.

[Ken Harbart]

I would like to clarify, however, that is indeed illegal to hit a customer with a surcharge in some states.

If you're going to figure that fee into what the customer pays, figure it into the price across the board, rather than penalizing customers for paying via a certain method.

[The BoidSmith]

Rich,

You don't need to apologize as I never took it personally. And yes, I agree with you, I spend a lot of time looking at the ads (particularly boas, and ball pythons). I'm not looking for the flaws in the ads but I inevitably run into them as I read. Improving the way we conduct our businesses on-line will be reassuring for the clientele and will eventually increase everyone's business. Believe me when I say it is not fun to have to point out those things.

As for the spelling issue, I make a lot of mistakes myself. It is the content that matters and the way a person conducts himself rather than the grammatical errors he makes when writing.

No, we should not rip people apart. But by not pointing out what we know is wrong we are doing them a disservice. When I make a mistake in the future I will like my "true friends" to point it out to me. That means they care about me and my business (at least that's the way I see it).

Happy Easter! :)

[CMGREPTILES]

first of all alvaro you need a life. what the hell is your problem that you need to bash me and pick me apart on every subject. you need to get a new hobby. you have 1800 posts here. that is somebody who has no life. you have no right to question what i charge for animals. your just pissed off i wouldnt take you lowball insult of an offer on the blackhead ball. get over it. paypal will not do a thing to me over charging anyone since ive made paypal a ton of money when you consider their charges. and second the 50 dollar extra charge thru paypal is becuase of the hassle for me to wait 4 days to get my money. the reason i have not been responding lately to your crap is because i figured you got a life but now i see you still have nothing to do in a days time. you need a girlfriend,a job, or a life. you get into everyones business time and time again and the sad part ir you probablly dont even own a snake. here i am trying to keep a good name for myself and i have idiots like you harping on nothing but crap trying to turn it into something. you need to grow up. you are the problem with fauna and what its turning into. fauna used to be a site i enjoyed but its people like you that turn this site from what its supposed to be into a business bashing free for all.



chris
cmg reptiles

[Ken Harbart]

Well Chris, I haven't taken anything else from this thread into consideration, but your smugness regarding your lack of ethics is very telling.

fauna used to be a site i enjoyed but its people like you that turn this site from what its supposed to be into a business bashing free for all.
Fauna is still what it started out as. It still exposes the dishonest and unethical dealers amongst us. Sometimes it's the ones who charge their customers fees which they explicitly agreed not to.

If PayPal is too slow for you, or you're too damn cheap to cover the fee, then don't accept it. It's that simple.

[The BoidSmith]

first of all alvaro you need a life. what the hell is your problem that you need to bash me and pick me apart on every subject. you need to get a new hobby.

Chris,

Where do you see me bashing you? Read back on this thread, you will notice I even stood by you when you were questioned on the pictures and the origin of the albino ball. Where am I picking you apart? Please point it out to me.

you have 1800 posts here. that is somebody who has no life.

True. In close to three years. You would be amazed at the kind of life I lead.

you have no right to question what i charge for animals.

Please point me to anyplace in this site where I question how much you ask for your animals.

paypal will not do a thing to me over charging anyone since ive made paypal a ton of money when you consider their charges.

In that we don't agree. Surcharging is illegal, please read the Paypal terms.

and second the 50 dollar extra charge thru paypal is becuase of the hassle for me to wait 4 days to get my money.

That's understandable, but still can't do it.

the reason i have not been responding lately to your crap is because i figured you got a life but now i see you still have nothing to do in a days time.

No comment, although you will be surprised. ;)

you need a girlfriend,a job, or a life. you get into everyones business time and time again and the sad part ir you probablly dont even own a snake.

Married, two children. Own and breed ball pythons, also have boa constrictors.

here i am trying to keep a good name for myself and i have idiots like you harping on nothing but crap trying to turn it into something. you need to grow up.

And you will keep your good name as long as you send Bill his paperwork, and don't surcharge for Paypal.

you are the problem with fauna and what its turning into. fauna used to be a site i enjoyed but its people like you that turn this site from what its supposed to be into a business bashing free for all.

Please show me again where I bashed you or said something that was not true.

Kindly.

[CMGREPTILES]

FIRST OF ALL THATS NOT WHAT MY POINT WAS. WHAT MY POINT WAS IS SIMPLE. IM NOT RIPPING ANYBODY OFF AND IM SICK AND TIRED OF IDIOTS ON HERE PUTTING MY NAME INTO STUPID SCENERIOS. IF IVE RIPPED SOMEONE OFF THAN FINE BUT I HAVENT AND IM SICK OF IT. ALSO THIS SITE IS A GOOD SITE IF IT IS USED AS A FORUM TO WARN PEOPLE BUT ITS TURNED INTO A SITE TO TRY AND RUIN PEOPLE. YOU AS A MODERATOR SHOULD UNDERSTAND MY FRUSTRATION AND IF YOU DONT THAN YOUR NO BETTER THAN ALVARO. AND AGAIN THIS IS AN ISSUE OF ALVARO BEING PISSED OFF THAT I WOULDNT SELL HIM A 10K SNAKE FOR HIS REDICULOUS 200.00 OFFER. THAT IS WHY HE HAS BEEN ON ME. AND ITS NOT THAT I AM TOO CHEAP WITH PAYPAL. I HAVE RUN OVER 70K THRU PAYPAL IN THE PAST 9 MONTHS SO THEY HAVE MADE THIER MONEY. DONT QUESTION MY BUSINESS INTEGRITY. IF THIS SITE IS NOT USED FOR WHAT ITS INTENDED FOR THAN I DONT NEED IT AND SURE AS HELL WOULD TELL ANYBODY THAT ASKED WHY. THIS IS REDICULOUS THAT I HAVE TO GET ON HERE AND BACK MYSELF UP ON ISSUES THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RIPPING ANYBODY OFF. THIS IS ABOUT AN ANERY FEMALE AND AN ALBINO BOA FOR 1300.00 WHAT THE HELL THE PRICE IS ROCKBOTTOM AND IM CATCHING CRAP ON HERE FOR THAT. I WOULD REALLY LOVE TOI HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT.


CHRIS

[CMGREPTILES]

LOOK ALVARO WHERE IN MY AD DOES IT SAY IM CHARGING FOR PAYPALS PERCENTAGE? NOWHERE. IM CHARGING MORE FOR A PAYPAL TRANSACTION BECAUSE OF THE INCONVIENANCE OF THE 4 DAY WAIT AND THAT IS NOT ILLEGAL. AND WHY DONT YOU CONTACT BILL AND ASK HIM WHAT ME AND HIM HAVE DISCUSSED BEFORE YOU PUT YOURSELF IN MY BUSINESS. THIS IS JUST REDICULOUS AND THIS SITE IS GETTING THAT WAY AS WELL. THERE IS A REASON PEOPLE POST ANIMALS ON HERE AND ON KINGSNAKE. AND THE REASON IS CAUSE THE INDUSTRY NEEDS A SITE FOR CHEAP PEOPLE WHO DONT EVEN WANT TO PAY FOR AN ACCOUNT TO SELL THEIR ANIMALS. I HAVE A PREMIER ACCOUNT WITH KINGSNAKE AND I POST REGULARLY THERE SO HOW AM I GONNA RIP SOMEBODY OFF. PLUS IM A LICENSSED BUSINESS NOT SOME HOBBYIST WITH A COUPLE ANIMALS. THINK ABOUT THAT BEFORE YOU QUESTION ME



CHRIS

[The BoidSmith]

AND AGAIN THIS IS AN ISSUE OF ALVARO BEING PISSED OFF THAT I WOULDNT SELL HIM A 10K SNAKE FOR HIS REDICULOUS 200.00 OFFER. THAT IS WHY HE HAS BEEN ON ME.

Was it $200? I thought it was $300, anyways it's a mute point right now. Don't get me wrong, it's not about that. The next thing you are going to say is that I was going to bid on Drew's animals and that's why I got involved.

Chris,

This is about two things:

1. Paperwork you have not provided to one of your customers.

2. Surcharging when selling through Paypal which is illegal.

Take care of those two issues and you are as good as new.

Regards.

[The BoidSmith]

Here it is Chris:

I HAVE AN ALBINO MALE AN A ANERY FEMALE FOR SALE FOR 1300.00. THE BONUS IS THAT THEY ARE POSS HET SNOWS. BUT IM NOT SELLING THEM AS HET SNOWS. AND AT THIS PRICE THEY WILL BE GONE. YESTERDAY I POSTED THEM WITHOUT PICS AND THE RESPONSE WAS CRAZY. I TOOK PICS AND HERE THEY ARE. FIRST PERSON WHO PAYS GETS THEM. PAYPAL PRICE IS 1350.00 AND POST OFFICE MONEY ORDER SENT WITH A TRACKING NUMBER PRIORITY PRICE IS 1300.00 SHIPPING IS 40.00

The pair is sold for $1,300. If someone pays with Paypal $1,350 (3,85% more to be exact).

If everything with Bill has been resolved accept my apologies. Please tell him that I will appreciate if he posts that as well.

Thanks.

[Bill Rodriquez]

To everyone here on the BOI, I would like to clear up a matter of misunderstanding over some genetics paperwork not sent out on a purchase on Het. animals from CMG. Chris and myself have gotten this matter TOTALLY RESOLVED, and there are no more issues. Chris has promised me in good faith that he will send out my paperwork this week. Chris also explained to me that he is highly involved in wildlife rescue and rehabilitation of wildlife and also very much into reptiles. He stated that there are many times he is taken away from the business, and that he totally depends on his employees to take care of matters such as mine. He told me that there were communication problems between him and his help, and that he is in the process of resolving this matter. He asured me that this will not happen in future dealing, and that they will be in a more timely fashion. As I have stated before Chris's animals were FLAWLESS and his shipping was 110%, and that is important to me and others when making purchases. As I close this post I would just like to remind everyone reading this, That in no way shape or form did I or would I be able to label Chris a bad guy. Not at all.


Thanks to everyone who contributed

Good Night
Bill Rodriquez

[Sasheena]

Will you PLEASE post when you actually receive the paperwork?

I don't think anyone was thinking anything bad about the animals themselves, just that Chris had to make good on the promise of sending you the paperwork.

[Bill Rodriquez]

Sasheena

I will be more than glad to post when I recieve paperwork. It shold likly be sometime this week. I'll keep everyone updated.

Thank You
Bill Rodriquez

[Bill Rodriquez]

PLEASE excuse the spelling. I have had on heck of a day and it is past my bed time.

Thank You
and to all goodnight

Bill Rodriquez

[CMGREPTILES]

THE PAPERWORK WENT OUT PRIORITY AND WILL BE THERE TUESDAY NOT LIKE I NEEDED TO SAY THAT HERE SINCE ITS NOBODIES BUSINEES BUT BETWEEN ME AND BILL BUT YOU FAUNA PEOPLE NEED THE REASURANCE I GUESS




CHRIS

[Ken Harbart]

I could care less about the boas. What's front and center at the moment is the unethical, and in many cases illegal, fees charged to customers. That type of information is fully within the scope of the BOI. I'm not going to loose sleep over someone who's doing something wrong getting upset about getting called out on it.

I could care less how much money you've "made PayPal in fees." I'm not impressed, nor does it give you the right to pass those fees (and then some) on to customers. Bottom line is that you're charging customers a fee which you explicitly agreed not to, and therefore have no right to. No amount of rationalization or yelling and screaming on your part can change that fact.

[The BoidSmith]

Chris has promised me in good faith that he will send out my paperwork this week.

Bill,

Thanks for posting, I'm glad to hear that. Please let us know as soon as you receive your paperwork.

Chris,

Please accept a suggestion in good faith. There is nothing wrong with selling both snakes for $1,350 and paying for the Paypal fee from your pocket. The point I wanted to make across is that you cannot surcharge the 3%. Is it so hard to rewrite your ad and charge $1,350 for both snakes without making the distinction between Paypal and money orders? It is within your right to charge whatever you want for your snakes. You want to ask $1,500? Fine, but don't differentiate between Paypal and other payment options.

Regards.

[Ken Harbart]

Originally posted by alvaro
Bill,

Thanks for posting, I'm glad to hear that. Please let us know as soon as you receive your paperwork.

Chris,

Please accept a suggestion in good faith. There is nothing wrong with selling both snakes for $1,350 and paying for the Paypal fee from your pocket. The point I wanted to make across is that you cannot surcharge the 3%. Is it so hard to rewrite your ad and charge $1,350 for both snakes without making the distinction between Paypal and money orders? It is within your right to charge whatever you want for your snakes. You want to ask $1,500? Fine, but don't differentiate between Paypal and other payment options.

Regards.

Bingo. We have a winner. By doing this, Chris will be fully "legit", and no one would be able to say anything about unethical surcharges or customers being penalized for paying via a certain method that the seller chose to deem acceptable.

In short, it would put to rest anything that anyone might have to say on the matter.

[The BoidSmith]

THE PAPERWORK WENT OUT PRIORITY AND WILL BE THERE TUESDAY NOT LIKE I NEEDED TO SAY THAT HERE SINCE ITS NOBODIES BUSINEES BUT BETWEEN ME AND BILL BUT YOU FAUNA PEOPLE NEED THE REASURANCE I GUESS

One final coment. It was not us who needed reassurance but Bill. He came to the BOI as a last resort after requesting repeatedly for the paperwork to no avail. The people that got involved in this thread (including myself) was per his request.

Regards.

[CMGREPTILES]

OK THEN HOW ABOUT I CHARGE WHAT THEY ARE WORTH THAN. ILL CHANGE THE AD TO 1800.00 SINCE THEY ARE ALSO BOTH POSS HET SNOW BUT WHATEVER THANKS FOR THE ADVICE LIKE I NEEDE ADVICE ON HOW TO SELL SNAKES



CHRIS

[CMGREPTILES]

The people that got involved in this thread (including myself) was per his request.




what are you alvaro the peoples cop? you get involved with everybodies business. you have no idea what happened and plainly stated you heard one persons side of the story which that person was not timely informed to situations occuring here which i take responsibilllity for. but it is not your job to get involved and play the nosy neighbor in every possible situation in every possible problem people have. quit being nosy.




chris

[Glenn Bartley]

Well, I was considering making inquiries of CMG to buy my yearly batch of Ball Pythons as they already have them on hand. Their price is a bit steep, as to what I usually pay, but I realize that they are the first of the season. So, I deiced to run a BOI inquiry. Of course I did not have to place an inquiry myself as here was one ready made.

I thank everyone for their input. I feel I have been saved what could have potentially been a major headache should something with an order from CMG not been right. I knowingly will not order from someone who accepts PayPal yet violates their terms of service by charging me more. I use credit cards via PayPal, among other reasons, to avoid money order fees since I am not made of money. Now I don't recall seeing that the Baby Ball Pythons would incur a 3% or more additional fee for my paying by PayPal; but what I did see, via this thread, was someone charging on other transactions for that which as I understand is against the rules and therefor unethical. That made me shy away from making an inquiry with CMG but did not fully turn me away.

Then I considered thatb someone had not received promised paperwork in a timely manner. I don't care that said person now states all has been resolved to his satisfaction. Don't get me wrong, that is fine for him. What I am concerned with is the question: Should I then chance that something possibly will also go wrong with my order and take over one month to be resolved? I don't need such headaches. If the staff is at fault at CMG, get staff that understands how to get things done in a timely manner. If the staff still cannot get it done in a timely manner, don't keep making excuses and not get it done, do it yourself. That would have been the good business thing to do instead of making someone wait a month or more. That was another thing that made me shy away from contacting CMG about baby ball pythons.

Then there were the replies in this thread by Chris from CMG. They made me wonder: If I were to have a point of contention about an order I had placed with CMG, would I be treated as was the fellow who had to wait a month? (Who quite likely, in my opinion, would still be waiting if not for this particular thread on the BOI, I don't believe for a moment that Chris would have resolved this if not for the controversy created by this thread but that is just my opinion). I also wondered: Would I be treated like Alvaro has been treated and would I be called childish names and the like.
here i am trying to keep a good name for myself and i have idiots like you harping on nothing but crap trying to turn it into something. you need to grow up. Just the thought that such was a fairly possible alternative (judging by what I have seen here) also made me shy away from placing an order with CMG. Heck, Alvaro, as I read it, was rather supportive of Chris from CMG earlier on. What does Chris have to say about that - apparently nothing. That would certainly seem to debunk Chris's claims that Alvaro is trying to ruin him because Alvaro is angry that Chris would not sell him a snake for a price suggested by Alvaro. Of course it could have been a very clever and dastardly ploy by Alvaro to make it seem as if he supported Chris, then attacking Chris, so as to really bring Chris to his knees and utterly destroy his credibility in the herp industry, while at the same time keeping Alvaro looking like a nice guy. I really don't put too much into a theory (err fantasy) like that, but I would not be surprised if it would be suggested by someone else. There are just too many clever ploy and conspiracy theories about the BOI. The BOI was put here to root out people who utilize unethical business practices; and to me it seems like it has just again done its job.


Chris said something interesting in his rebuttals:


you have no right to question what i charge for animals.

But the other users of PayPal certainly have a right to question whether or not you are violating the PayPal terms of service by which they abide. Of course, I realize that CMG does not need my business having had over $70,000 of transactions through PayPal last nine (9) months. Yet, even for a moment to believe that Paypal will do nothing to someone who is quite possibly violating their terms of service, and who is possibly violating the law by using their service in such a manner, is something I find hard to believe. I wonder what PayPal would have to say on this issue?

I also find this statement made by Chris rather hard to fathom, unless the rules at PayPal have changed since I was last paid by someone using PayPal with their credit card.

LOOK ALVARO WHERE IN MY AD DOES IT SAY IM CHARGING FOR PAYPALS PERCENTAGE? NOWHERE. IM CHARGING MORE FOR A PAYPAL TRANSACTION BECAUSE OF THE INCONVIENANCE OF THE 4 DAY WAIT AND THAT IS NOT ILLEGAL.

First of all, it certainly appears tome as if you are charging a surcharge to use PayPal. I doubt it matters if it is the same as the 3% they charge you, it does appear, to me, to be a surcharge and I am guessing it would appear that way to PayPal.

As for that 4 day wait: The money I have been paid with by others, has always been available to me immediately as I recall. Of what 4 day waiting period do you write when someone pays you through PayPal using a credit card? Now of course, if there is actually such a wait, so be it, but is that wait any different from the wait for a money order or a check! If you have to wait 4 days for PayPal, and find that as an inconvenience may I ask: What about the time it takes for someone to go out and get a money order? What about the time to mail you a money order or a check and for it to be delivered. Then what about the time it takes you to get to the bank - especially since you are apparently so busy (reference to not having time to send out or properly address the issue of the receipt)? Then what about the time it takes a check to clear? Then what about the time it takes a money order to clear? Yes it does actually take some time before you can be absolutely sure that a money order was good. With a postal money order, for instance, they usually don't have the cancelled/stolen/fraudulent list updated by the time I receive payment. That usually takes another 2 days after I receive it. Regardless of that, PayPal payment by credit card (which is what was being spoken about in this thread) is instantaneous as far as arrival of the funds in your paypal account. You do not need to wait for the mail with PayPal. That money is there for you to use via PayPal. So, riddle me this: Since you do have to wait a couple to a few days, at least, as for the snail mail - why aren't you charging the same 3% or 3.85% for people who pay by check or money order.


Now about this site and the people who post therein:
ALSO THIS SITE IS A GOOD SITE IF IT IS USED AS A FORUM TO WARN PEOPLE BUT ITS TURNED INTO A SITE TO TRY AND RUIN PEOPLE.

This site was great, as are the people who post here and make it what it is, that is until someone showed your business practices to be questionable, is that what you are saying? We have all heard this before. No one has tried to ruin you, from what I can see; but someone has started off what could become your ruination and that person was not Alvaro. That person was you and you alone. You make yourself to look like, in my opinion: an unscrupulous businessperson, with poor ethics and bad business practices. You also make yourself look like, in my opinion, someone who is childish because of the language and name calling you choose to utilize in your responses on this thread. While no one really seemed to try to bash you, you certainly, in my viewpoint, do try to bash others including: Alvaro, Ken Harbart and this site in general. You tell Alvaro, to grow up, yet it is not he who is acting in an immature manner. As far as I can tell, it is you who needs to mature.

In closing I just wanted to convey my thanks to Chris from CMG Reptiles for showing his side of the story. You see it was not Alvaro, or Rene, or anyone else who influenced the decision I made based upon this thread. It was Chris and his side of the story, his business practices, some of his prior or current business dealings, and his style of posting on this thread, as I understood them, that have convinced me not to further any consideration of doing business with him. Thanks for the warning, it is well taken.

Sincerely,
Glenn Bartley

[WebSlave]

Quote from Chris Guida:

I HAVE A PREMIER ACCOUNT WITH KINGSNAKE AND I POST REGULARLY THERE SO HOW AM I GONNA RIP SOMEBODY OFF. PLUS IM A LICENSSED BUSINESS NOT SOME HOBBYIST WITH A COUPLE ANIMALS. THINK ABOUT THAT BEFORE YOU QUESTION ME


Well, darn! Now what was I thinking? Did I neglect to mention this point in my rules?

Thou shalt not question anyone with a premier account at kingsnake.com!

I feel SO stupid.........

[CMGREPTILES]

WELL THAT POST WAS JUST WAY TO LONG FOR ME TO CARE ABOUT BUT GLENN I DONT WANT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY IF YOU BUY INTO THIS FAUNA CRAP. THIS SITE IS THE DIRECT RESULT OF TOO MANY PEOPLE WITH TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS AND IM DONE WITH IT. SO TALK ALL THE CRAP YOU WANT BAN ME I DONT CARE BUT YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED HOW MANY PEOPLE FEEL THE SAME WAY AS ME. AND FAUNA IM SURE WILL NOT BE AROUND FOR LONG SINCE THERE ARE OTHER FORUMS WHICH ARE ALOT BETTER SO ENJOY YOUR BASHING OF ME AND FOR ALL WHO BUY INTO THE CRAP I DONT WANT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY. AND AGAIN I WOULD LIKE SOMEONE TO POINT OUT WHERE IN MY AD IT STATES IM CHARGING FOR PAYPALS PERCENTAGE? ITS MY DECISION IF I WANT TO CHARGE FOR THE WAIT FOR MY MONEY OR NOT. AND GLENN YOU NEVER GET YOUR MONEY TO YOUR BANK ACCOUNT RIGHT AWAY. SO SHOW ME WHERE I BROKE ANY LAWS. ANYWAY SHOW ME A BAD GUY POST ABOUT ME ON HERE? EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID ABOUT ME HAS CENTERED AROUND ALVAROS CRAP AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IM A BAD GUY. HE IS JUST MAD I DIDNT TAKE HIS OFFER ON AN ANIMAL AND THEN WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE GLENN WHO BUYS INTO THE CRAP. WELL I GUESS THAT IS WHAT FAUNA WAS CREATED FOR. I FORGOT THIS IS THE INTERNET AND I GUESS WE HAVE TO HAVE AN AOL CHATROOM MENTALLITY IN THE SNAKE BUSINESS. BUT THERE IS A REASON ALOT OF PEOPLE DONT POST THEIR ANIMALS HERE. AND FOR EVERY PERSON YOU CAN GET TO JOIN IN ON YOUR LITTLE CIRCLEJERK ABOUT ME I CAN GET 20 PEOPLE TO TELL YOU SOMETHING GOOD SO TO THE ONES WHO HAVE NOT DONE BUSINESS WITH ME TALKING CRAP YOU CAN KISS MY ASS. YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK AND I CANT WAIT TILL FAUNA IS USED FOR WHAT IT WAS MADE FOR INSTEAD OF TRASHING GOOD PEOPLE.




CHRIS

[CMGREPTILES]

AND ANOTHER THING GLENN. LOOK BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE POSTS AND SEE HOW THIS WHOLE THING STARTED. I WAS ATTACKED ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS AND THEY WERE ALL PROVEN UNTRUE AND I DONT CARE IF YOU BUY YOUR BABIES FROM ME OR NOT BUT I WILL TELL YOU THIS. THE DEALS IM GIVING ON THEM ARE THE BEST DEALS GOING RIGHT NOW AND YES THE PRICES ARE STEEP BUT THATS GONNA BE EVERYWHERE THIS TIME OF YEAR SINCE THE PRICES ARE SET IN AFRICA NOT HERE.; SO AS THE WEEKS GO ON THE PRICES WILL DROP BUT GO SPEND YOUR MONEY ON WORTHLESS SUCKED UP BABIES FROM SOMEONE WHO WONT GUARANTEE THEM. GRUMPY OLD HERPER IS RIGHT.




CHRIS

[Sasheena]

Jeeze, Chris, PLEASE STOP

S H O U T I N G

[Wilomn]

Well chris, I've had not one word to say about this entire little fiasco but, with your quote below from page 18 of this thread now out there, I would like to see these people come on here and post for you.

I think there have been more than two that been in this "little circlejerk" so if you can get 40 people to come on here and tell us what a wonderful guy you are, well, I'll just shut my mouth.

Funny how the only guys who EVER say this site is a joke are the one facing the scrutiny of upstanding members, you the ones I mean, guys like Alvaro.

It'll be VERY interesting to see who, if any actually do, comes to post in your defence.




Originally posted by CMGREPTILES
AND FOR EVERY PERSON YOU CAN GET TO JOIN IN ON YOUR LITTLE CIRCLEJERK ABOUT ME I CAN GET 20 PEOPLE TO TELL YOU SOMETHING GOOD SO TO THE ONES WHO HAVE NOT DONE BUSINESS WITH ME TALKING CRAP YOU CAN KISS MY ASS. YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK AND I CANT WAIT TILL FAUNA IS USED FOR WHAT IT WAS MADE FOR INSTEAD OF TRASHING GOOD PEOPLE.




CHRIS

Wes Pollock

[CMGREPTILES]

OK THEN I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW FROM YOUR MOUTH. WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG? IS IT THE PAPERWORK DEAL? CAUSE THATS ALL I SEE. PLEASE TELL ME WHAT CONSTITUTES ME A BAD GUY. I HAVE NOT RIPPED ANYONE OFF. I CANT HELP IF THINGS GOT SCREWED UP ON MY END WITH SENDING STUFF OUT. I APOLIGIZED FOR THAT AND SENT THE PAPERWORK OUT FEDEX NEXT DAY SO WHATS THE PROBLEM? PLEASE TELL ME SINCE YOU WANT IN ON THIS WITCH HUNT. I WOULD REALLY LOVE TO HEAR YOUR SIDE ON HOW IM A BAD GUY.





CHRIS

[Wilomn]

Doggone it I seem to have done it again.

Alvaro, I did not mean that you were in any way a BAD guy.

I meant that you were a GOOD guy applying scrutiny to someone. I've done that before, tried to use your good standing as an example and muffed it a bit.

Sorry.

Originally posted by wilomn

Funny how the only guys who EVER say this site is a joke are the one facing the scrutiny of upstanding members, you the ones I mean, guys like Alvaro.

Wes Pollock

Alvaro is one of the upstanding member I refer above. He is IN NOW WAY A BAD GUY AT ALL.

Wes Pollock

[dwedeking]

Chris,

Actually the paperwork was a mistake. You dropped the ball but in reality it was a minor ball. The perfect scenario would be to come on here and say the paperwork was going out today priority or overnight.... ..... and then stop.

It's the ranting that is making you look bad. Some people are going to be over critical, that is human nature ESPECIALLy on the internet. Develop some thick skin and walk away (personally I find yelling in an open warehouse takes care of that stress and doesn't look so bad as when done in public though employees may look at you funny).

In the online world typing in all capitals is the equivelant of screaming. It kind of makes you look like a raving lunatic which since I've sold to you and as of earlier today purchased from you I know your not.

Just personal advice, take it or leave it.

[ms_terese]

Chris,

I've stayed out of this whole thread thus far. However, you must realize that some of the "good guys" have been busted for not being such good guys on this forum. Therefore, everyone is subjected to some degree of scrutiny when it's warranted.

This started over some misinformation about some albino ball pythons, which I believe you straightened out accordingly. A secondary issue was some paperwork, which I believe has been handled.

The disastrous part of this thread for you has been your attitude. You are attacking, derogatory, condescending, and belligerant. You have spoken poorly of specific people, and been generally degrading to members of this site. It was uncalled for.

Be a businessman. Learn to communicate appropriately. It will be a huge benefit to you.

[dwedeking]

Also the PayPal thing. In reality it's a matter of semantics. You just can't call it a surcharge. You need to charge one price. Now if you call the Money Order/Cash price a "discount" then it's not a surcharge. The customer pays for the 3% whether it's wrapped into the price or not (they also pay for feeders, electricity, marketing etc etc, you just don't detail it on those items so don't detail it with Paypal and you'll make everyone happy).

[CMGREPTILES]

LOOK I UNDERSTAND THE POINTS GIVEN ON HERE BUT WHEN IM ATTACKED I ATTACK BACK. IS THAT WRONG? MAYBE BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS. I DONT SCREW ANYONE AND IVE BEEN HONEST IN ALL TRANSACTIONS. IF ITS AN ISSUE OVER THE PAYPAL THING THEN ILL CORRECT THAT. THIS POST STARTED OVER SOME HET ALBINO BOAS WHICH I SOLD FOR 100.00 EACH WHICH IS ABOUT THE PRICE FOR NORMALS. BUT I SOLD THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE A RESULT OF 2 STRAINS THAT WERE NOT COMPATIBLE AND I STATED THAT UPFRONT SO THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A BIG DEAL THEN I HAD A GUY JUMPING THE GUN ON ME ABOUT AN ALBINO BALL WHICH WAS PROVEN TO AN ISSUE HE STARTED WITHOUT DOING HIS HOMEWORK. IVE ALREADY STATED THE ISSUE WITH THE PAPERWORK AND SO DID MR. RODRIGUEZ. SO AS FAR AS I SEE IT THE ONLY ISSUE IS WITH THIS POAYPAL DEAL SO ONCE AND FOR ALL I APOLIGIZE IF IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT AND TAKEN AS I WAS CHARGING FOR A SURCHARGE WHEN I WAS SIMPLY CHARGING FOR THE TIME IT TAKES FOR ME TO TRANSFER FUNDS FROM PAYPAL TO MY BANK. LIKE I SAID I WILL CORRECT THAT. AND I APOLIGIZE FOR THE ATTITUDE BUT I TAKE MY BUSINESS SERIOUSLY AND IM NOT A HOBBYIST MAKING A FEW EXTRA BUCKS. I DO THIS FULL TIME AND I ALSO DO WILDLIFE RELOCATION AND REMOVAL FOR THE LOCAL POLICE DEPTS, AND ANIMAL CONTROL SO IM REALLY BUSY. THIS IS HOW I FEED MY FAMILY AND MY LIVELYHOOD SO WHEN SOMEONE ATTACKS THAT THEY ARE ATTACKING ME AND MY FAMILY AND I DONT TAKE THAT LIGHTLY.



CHRIS

[Clay Davenport]

I APOLIGIZE IF IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT AND TAKEN AS I WAS CHARGING FOR A SURCHARGE WHEN I WAS SIMPLY CHARGING FOR THE TIME IT TAKES FOR ME TO TRANSFER FUNDS FROM PAYPAL TO MY BANK.
Frankly I don't buy this. The wait to transfer the funds from paypal si no dofferent than the wait on a money order to arrive, and with a money order you have the additional possibility that it was never sent and you're waiting on nothing. This leaves the 3% paypal charge as the only reason for the extra charge.
Regardless, my personal opinion is irrelevant, you seem to be missing what the Paypal TOS says exactly, partcularly this one excerpt:
You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods).
It makes no difference which reason you're really adding the extra fee for using Paypal, the TOS plainly says that any added fee may be no higher than for other payment methods.

As for Paypal not caring because of the volume of sales you've done, let's look at it. On $70,000 in sales, paypal collected $2100 in fees. That's still a very small fish in paypal's pond. Do you actually think they'd overlook violation of Mastercard and Visa's policies as well as several state laws over $2100?
I once read that an estimated 40 million was transfered daily through paypal. Seventy thousand over the course of 9 months or whatever is literally nothing to them.

Personally I don't think you would rip anyone off. I would not hesitate doing business with you for fear of being scammed.
I would however hesitate doing business with you based on your attitude. A couple of times in this thread you've made comments that you are not "some hobbyist with a couple of animals" or "some hobbyist trying to make a couple extra bucks".
"Some hobbyist" makes up a large percentage of the buying public, and your comments, making "some hobbyist" out to be less than yourself because you are a "licensed business" is demeaning and alienating a significant portion of your potential customer base.
I'm not a licensed business, I'm a breeder and have been for better than 13 years now. I guess I'm still just "some hobbyist" though since I don't have a business license on the wall and my snakes don't have to pay my mortgage.
Word to the wise, thousands are spent annually by some hobbyist, you'd do well to keep them as potential customers instead of someone you have made such an effort not to be catagorized with.

[CMGREPTILES]

I dont mean to put a serious hobbyist in the same calssification as a person who thinks they know everything and have no experience. So i apoligize for that but the bottom line is my attitude is given because i feel i have been a canter of a witch hunt by a couple of friends of eachother on here which none of them have done business with me that is all. but take it how you want. my animals are the best quality you will get and i stand behind that and if a mistake has been made i correct it. im not one of these people who are going to sell you something blind and then basically tell you to screw yourself when it dies 2 days later. And like i said i will change the ad since people have such a big problem with it.




chris

[ms_terese]

Chris, I don't think you even tried to scam anyone, and I certainly don't think you're a bad guy. However, you've got to chill a little.

It's NOT OK to charge more for PayPal transactions, period. You can give a discount for cash if you want, and stay within regulations. Don't get touchy about it, just accept that, change the wording of the ad, and calm down.

I understand about protecting one's livelihood. However, maintaining your cool, your dignity, and your demeanor when in a difficult spot is essential for building your reputation. Stay professional, stay reasonable, and you will earn people's respect.

I'm not your momma, and you don't need anyone preaching at you....but I just want you to take a deep breath and show the world a better side of you. One of the worst things about the internet is that you can't effectively read someone's tone in a post...and one of the best things is that you can take time to think about a response, review it, amend it before hitting that "SEND" key. Use that to your advantage.

I really am typing this with the intention of giving you some advice. I apologize in advance if that's unwelcome. Sometimes when I see someone being reactionary and it's harming them, I can't resist the urge to try to slow them down.

[Bill Rodriquez]

I just wanted to let everyone here on the BOI who contributated posts. That just as Chris had promised, the paperwork on the 2 Het. Boa,s arrived today via Fed-Ex at 10:30 a.m. Good deal.

Thanks
Bill Rodriquez

[CMGREPTILES]

Im glad you got them and again like i said via our email conversation i apoligize for the wait and i look forward to doing more business with you in the future.




Chris

[The BoidSmith]

Well done Chris! You fulfilled your commitment with Bill, and changed your ad’s wording.

Wish you well in your future endeavors.
:)

[gkpstores]

Take this as a bit of perspective from the outside looking in (as if any of you people are even capable of understanding such a perspective!)

I recently put a $100 deposit on some tree pythons Chris was selling. I decided to check the forum to see if there was any bad feedback on the seller (a little late, sure...but better late than never!) before I sent the rest without reservation.

Here's my conclusion after reading this TWENTY ONE PAGE POST on CMG Reptiles:

I have NO FEAR and NO DOUBT that my purchase is a GOOD ONE. Why? Because I read every single page of this god**n crap, and not ONE person has posted ONE LEGITIMATE reason NOT to deal with Chris.

After reading this EPIC post, I have found four reasons I should place an order with Chris:

1. As stated his animals are flawless (as I learned here)
2. His packaging is 110% (as I learned here)
3. He uncondtionally guarantees his snakes (as I learned here)
...and last, but not least
4. The guy's got a great attitude.

Right on Chris. Hang in there. Can't wait till my pythons arrive.

As for the rest of you---think about this:

TWENTY ONE PAGES on A PICTURE DISPUTE, a PAPERWORK PROBLEM, and PAYPAL SURCHARGES (which I also add to all my ebay items...OH MY GOD...huhbluh!)

I also run a very busy business, and it's people like some of you who make it tough to live the statement "the customer is always right".

Sometimes, the customer is just a moron.

My heartfelt thanks for the amusement...

Gary

[Glenn Bartley]

Gary,

So what you are telling us seems to be that on Ebay you too are violating the PayPAl terms of service, is that correct? Are you also admitting to doing something illegal? If the answer to either one is yes, well then: That would be more than enough reason for many an honest, law abiding, rule following, moral person to avoid doing business with you. If you cannot understand that about your customers or about potential customers, then of course you would miss the point of many of the posts in this thread.

I prefer to buy from honest sellers. As I see it, honest selers would not, and could not by virtue of their honesty, violate the terms of service to which they agreed to use a service such as PayPal. To knowingly violate those terms, while at the same time, using that service would in itself be dishonest, wouldn't it? Are you saying that dishonesty is not enough reason for someone not to use a particular buyer? That seems like some truly 21st century reasoning if that is what you are saying!

In fact, here is something you did say: The guy's got a great attitude. You said that about Chris from CMG. If he knowingly is charging a surcharge for PayPal, and if he agreed not to do so when he signed up for payPal, is that honest or is it even just a tad dishonest? If it is even a tiny bit dishonest, are you saying that this helps make up his so called "great attitude" as you see it?

Here is something else you said:PAYPAL SURCHARGES (which I also add to all my ebay items...OH MY GOD...huhbluh!) Are you knowingly violating the terms of payPal by doing so? If so, do you think this makes you honest and of good repute?

Maybe this statement you made is true:Sometimes, the customer is just a moron. But maybe there is another appropriate statement that you left out, the other side of the coin so to speak: Sometimes the seller is dishonest (to whatever degree) and the potential buyer has enough sense to realize such. Yes I could see how a smart seller would make a dishonest seller become vexed and make one resort to calling his customers morons. There is a lesson to be learned from Aesop and his tale of the Sour Grapes.

Of course you can resort to calling the posts in this thread by names, or coded expletives, all you want. Despite that, you too, in my opinion, are possibly guilty of being a dishonest PayPal user/seller.

Speaking of heartfelt thanks, thanks for the heads up about your your own, in my opinion, less than ethical business practices.

Sincerely,
Glenn Bartley

[gkpstores]

I don't understand people like you (this is not an insult) but it was posted (the pay pal charges) people saw what they had to pay if they wanted to do it that way. Whats the big deal they dont have to pay that way. In my Deli I give a 6% discount for cash. It saves me time and money. If you use a CC you loose money.

On my ebay I just assume thy will pay with PP so the price is on those thoughts. People know this, I have not sold much but I have sold all but one thing and every time people email me and ask "whats the cash price" they know there is added charges. When I buy anything over $500 I always show up with cash and always ask what can I get it for if I pay cash, and EVERY TIME I get it for less. Its commen sense to me and I'm sorry if you dont see it and dont employ it in your every day life (I realy dont know if you do or don't). But when it is posted how much more you will pay with alternitive's to cash and you don't like it DONT BUY or pay cash, but for gods sake dont whine about it. When a person has many good customers they dont need bad ones and are very willing to blow them off. I have often said in my deli "I have lots of good customers I dont need your money so dont ever come back". Im not saying all customers with a complaint are a pain or even wrong but some are not worth the oxegen they used. I am all about good service I deal with 500 to 1000 people a day and 99.98 are great but when I read these posts it reminds me of the .2 that will NEVER be happy with what they have in life .


IN SHORT
If you SEE what someone is charging and dont want to pay DONT.

To CMG reptiles mabe you should just say "there will be a 5% proccesing charge for pay pal." People will not what to think about that Therfore will not complain so much. and more than likly just pay cash. AND IT IS LEGAL for those who think it is not.

If I offended someone I am sorry but in all honesty DONT care I am so tierd of people making such a big deal of wording that does make sense. Not all of us are lawyers.

Thanks

Gary P

[dwedeking]

In my Deli I give a 6% discount for cash

You are correct in that it is only verbage and a level of perception. The problem is that perception is reality for retail customers. Retail customers also believe that you were sitting around playing video games all day waiting for their order to come through so you could process it. They care little that you've a busy schedule. They want all their i's dotted and t's crossed (proper pictures and paperwork in order for things that need paperwork). If your going to be successful in the retail arena you need to take these things into account.

I recently purchased some ball pythons from Chris. Everthing was in order and they are of the quality he stated (very good). I talked with him on the phone and he is a nice guy. So he has all the makings of a very successful business. Part of the headache of owning your own business is handling success and growth. While there were some bumps in this thread I think overall Chris will do well and probably in part because of the points brought out in this thread. This is shown in your purchase from him.

BTW I was looking at a local delivery service (diners and such) and on the bottom of all their pages was the following disclaimer. "All prices reflect a cash discount of 3%". I don't know if it would fly in the online reptile industry but that is a legal way around the whole paypal issue.

[Glenn Bartley]

Gary,

My point was not so much that a surchared is added onto the price, byt that an agreement was made with PayPal by a seller to follow PayPals terms of service. When a seller then knowingly breaks those TOS, the seller, in my opinion, is being dishonest in his/her business dealings. I just don't need to deal with someone who I think or suspect is being intentionally dishonest. If I was your customer, and you thoguht I was being dishonest in some aspect of our business dealings, would you want me for a customer?

As to the surcharge, there are many ethical, legal ways around addding a surcharge. (And by the way surcharges for Paypal are illegal in many states, as I understand, and that is why PayPal forbids them.) A flat percentage to equal the surcharge can be added to all prices. If you want a cash discount can then be deducted, as could a discount for checks or money orders. All of that is okay by the payPal terms of service that were agreed to when you signed up for PayPal, so if you use one of those alternatives you have not violated the TOS and have maintained the integrity of your PayPal agreement. If you do it by blatantly adding a surcharge, even thoguh you know it to be a violation of the TOS, well tha destroys the integrity of the agreement you made to abide by the TOS. Such actions, on the part of a seller, are less than desirable in my eyes than the actions of someone who abides by the TOS and this is regardless of whether or not 3% is added somewhere in the price. It really is a matter of busnesss principles rather than money. It is not a matter of paying that much at all, but of paying it to someone who is accepting it when to do such is possibly less than ethical. I mean if someone is willing to make an agreement such as accepting the terms of service for PayPay, and is then willing to break those same TOS, why should I be less than suspicious that they possibly would be willing to break any agreement they have made with me as far as guarantess and the like are concerned.

Hoping this explained it better.

Best regards,
Glenn B:)

[CMGREPTILES]

LOOK FOR THE LAST TIME. NPUT THIS DAMN THING TO REST. OK I HAVE RESPONDED TO THE SURCHARGE CRAP YADDA YADDA YADDA. COME ON GLENN DO YOU WANT TO BRING UP THE SAME CRAP OVER AND OVER AGAIN. AND OK ITS OFFICIAL YOU WONT BE BUYING AN ANIMAL FROM ME BECAUSE IM NOT HONEST OK FINE POINT MADE AND TAKEN BUT I ALREADY STATED I APOLIGIZED AND ID CHANGE THE AD WHICH I DID. YOU KNOW I KNOW I HAVE BLOWN UP ON HERE AT TIMES AND I ACTUALLY FELT LIKE AN IDIOT AT TIMES BUT NOW IM STARTING TO THINK I SHOULD HAVE JUST BLOWN UP MORE. AT NO TIME ARE YOU GOING TO HEAR ME SAY THAT IM THE #1 PERSON TO DEAL WITH OR THAT IM PERFECT BUT THIS FORUM IS TO DISPOSE RIPOFFS OR POTENTIAL RIPOFFS AND STUFF LIKE THAT AND AFTER 6 MONTHS AND 23 PAGES DEVOTED TO ME AND NOTHING HAS BEEN SHOWN OF THIS DONT YA THINK ITS TIME TO QUIT ALL THE CRAP? WHY DONT YOU GO AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT DO RIP PEOPLE OFF. OH BUT MAYBE THATS BECAUSE THEY WONT RESPOND. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT ME? I HAVE BACKED UP EVERYTHING I HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OFF AND STILL I CATCH CRAP. GET OVER IT.




CHRIS
CMG REPTILES

[Sasheena]

Chris, this thread WAS dead until your champion Gary brought it to the top to tell everyone here what morons they were. If you want this to sink to the bottom of the BOI, then just leave it be. I don't believe that the recent arguments were about you in any way at all. It is just that if someone attacks the integrity of the BOI, that attack will be met with a counter attack, in whatever thread the attack happens to be raised. So calm down, rest, relax, and let this thread sink once more into the muck. I don't think anyone who reads through this is going to feel that you are an absolute scoundrel to be avoided at all costs, they might think a note of caution is advised, (or not) but other than that, it isn't really a bad guy or a good guy thread, it's just become a discussion on good and bad business practices and I've learned from it if/when I ever start to sell my hatchlings online.

Anyway, peace to all, and goodnight to the thread!

[CMGREPTILES]

WHAT IS THE BOI A SECRET SOCIETY OR SOMETHING LMAO COME ON GROW UP. I DIDNT COME ON HERE UNTIL THIS CRAP ABOUT THE SURCHARGE ISSUE WAS BROUGHT BACK UP AND IF YOUR GOING TO USE WHAT YOUVE LEARNED ON FAUNA TO SELL ANIMALS THAN ILL SEE YA ON KINGSNAKE TRYING TO SELL OUT WHEN YOU DONT MAKE IT CAUSE FAUNA IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO MOLD YOUR BUSINESS ETHICS AROUND. AND JUST TO LET YOU KNOW AFTER ALL OF THE CRAP THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP ABOUT ME ON HERE AND THE FACT THAT AFTER 23 PAGES IM STILL A GOOD GUY IN THE EYES OF THE PEOPLE THAT COUNT WHICH IS PEOPLE THAT DONT BUY INTO THE CRAP BUT MY BUSINESS HAS DONE BETTER AFTER ALL THIS CRAP SO THANK YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT HAS TRIED TO HANG ME ON THE GOOD OL BOI. NOW DONT GET ME WRONG I LIKE THIS SITE WHEN ITS USED TO EXPOSE CON ARTISTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BUT WHEN IT IS USED TO ACT AS A WITCH HUNT FOR HONEST PEOPLE ITS DOWN RIGHT DISGUSTING. AND I CANT HELP IF PEOPLE BACK ME UP ON HERE JUST LIKE YOUR LITTLE GROUP TO HANG ME. BUT IM SORRY I DONT WANT TO ATTACK YOUR PRECIOUS SECRET SOCIETY OF THE BOI BUT I CAN PLAY THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH CARD JUST LIKE YOU CAN SO THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE GOOD FREE ADVERTISEMENT AND GOOD LUCK WHEN YOU START SELLIN YOUR BABIES ON LINE AND IF I EVER SEE YOU POSTED OR ANYONE ELSE THAT HAS TRASHED ME ON HERE ILL MAKE SURE TO VISIT THE THREAD AND HANG OUT AND SAY A FEW WORDS. LOL





CHRIS

[Glenn Bartley]

Chris,

COME ON GLENN DO YOU WANT TO BRING UP THE SAME CRAP OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Hmm, did I resurrect this issue. I think not. I thought someone else brought up this subject, I simply responded to that person's posts. I think it was that other person who brought up surcharges agian too. Now if you don't believe me, Sasheena has already been so kind to point out to you, I was not the one who resurrected this thread; however I certainly did discuss the issues further with the person who did bring it back up.

You seemingly prefer to say I brought it up again, and of course you apparently had no problem with the other person raising the issue did you? If you did, then where was your post ranting at him for bringing it up? Speaking of ranting, you seem to have a habit of doing that, in my opinion. You also seem to have the habit of referring to other people's ideas as 'crap' but, of course, not the ideas of the person who resurrected the issue, nor your own opinions. I wonder why not refer to his posts as crap? Is that because he is a customer of yours?

You may think my ideas and thoughts and opinions are crap, but then that is your opinion. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine, and you are entitled to post yours here on the BOI just as I am entitled to post my own. I was discussing an issue with someone who chose to continue to do so at his own free will. If you don't like that fine by me, then don't like it, that is your choice! Then again maybe you should realize this forum is open to discussion whether or not you like it. Now you have the nerve to find fault with me for doing so by way of posting here yourself and, you are in effect keeping this thread going when you say I should let it rest.

Then after that you post yet again and, in my estimation, rant and rave with what seem to me to be implied threats about how you will make sure to post on anyone who has posted their less than favorable opinions about you in this thread. BUT IM SORRY I DONT WANT TO ATTACK YOUR PRECIOUS SECRET SOCIETY OF THE BOI BUT I CAN PLAY THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH CARD JUST LIKE YOU CAN SO THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE GOOD FREE ADVERTISEMENT AND GOOD LUCK WHEN YOU START SELLIN YOUR BABIES ON LINE AND IF I EVER SEE YOU POSTED OR ANYONE ELSE THAT HAS TRASHED ME ON HERE ILL MAKE SURE TO VISIT THE THREAD AND HANG OUT AND SAY A FEW WORDS. LOL You may feel free to say whatever you like about me, but if stated as fact, it had best be the truth, otherwise it best plainly be your opinion and nothing more. You should also bear in mind that anyone can be directed back to this thread to read our respective posts, and then they can make up their own minds about the veracity of anything you post on me in the future.

By the way, a statement like the above quote makes you look real good! (Yes this was a bit of sarcasm on my part.) I think the only one who has recently, in this thread, made you look bad is yourself. This is for a couple of reasons: One is for the implied content, as I see it, of a possible threat. The other is for the, in my opinion, lack of sense behind what you say.

Go ahead and read it again, then tell me how it makes sense! Like many before you, you claim your business is much better because of a thread on the BOI (or as you seemingly refer to it ‘crap’) MY BUSINESS HAS DONE BETTER AFTER ALL THIS CRAP SO THANK YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT HAS TRIED TO HANG ME ON THE GOOD OL BOI. Well then I must ask in utter astonishment: Heavens to murgatroid - why on earth do you want this particular thread to fade away, and why are you seemingly upset that it was brought up again, if it has improved your business so much? Should I add 'LOL' here, would it be appropriate? Probably, it would not be in good taste, but it would certainly fit – don’t you agree?

You also said this:...YOUR PRECIOUS SECRET SOCIETY OF THE BOI... apparently, to me, implying that the BOI is only open to secret society members. Well if it really is such a secret society, and if the BOI is such a well kept secret, then how on earth could it have benefited your business so much to have you say:THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE GOOD FREE ADVERTISEMENT Who is kidding whom here? I would think if your business really improved because of this thread then it would have been because the BOI is a well visited forum, which is viewed by many, not just by the members of the so called secret society. By the way, last time I looked, this thread had received 5,391 views; not likely the number of views of a Secret Society forum! That is probably more hits than your own web site received in the past 2 or 3 months; or if not, then I would guess likely more than any of your individual ads on that other site you mentioned. I guess the so called secret is out! Again, I wonder, who is trying to kid whom here?

I would also add, if your business has truly improved, good for you. That would mean that you got lots of exposure on this thread (as seen in the number above), that the BOI is not part of a secret society or that the secret is out, and maybe even that you are doing something right. Just as you can do something right though, maybe you ought to realize and accept the fact that you do not necessarily do everything right. There is always room for improvement. Too bad you apparently can not see the light that was turned on in this thread about the surcharge issue being, at least in my opinion, an honesty issue. No matter how trivial an honesty issue it may seem to you, to others that could be the thing that makes them want to choose or avoid you as a seller or even as a buyer. Heck on Ebay, there are sellers who refuse to sell to people with as little as one negative feedback, and people who will not buy from sellers with a single negative feedback. Think about that, and maybe you will think about a way to improve your chances for even better business.

I realize that strict honesty in business may be a hard concept for younger people to swallow in today's world; but I still watch ‘Leave It To Beaver’ and live, best as I can with all my failings, by how I was raised back then. As I said earlier, I am not a saint, but I do try to live by some principles as well as I can, and honesty in my business dealings is certainly one of them.

I have pretty much said my piece here. I came here to discuss the issues at hand in this thread and to express my opinions on those issues. I was willing to let sleeping dogs lie until someone else kicked them and got them barking again. As for trashing you, that was never my intent. It was probably not your intent to trash yourself either; although I think you are quite capable of doing that all by yourself. I also think you have been doing a good job of it with your style of posts. Sure I understand you may not like what you are reading in some of the posts in this thread, and it may upset you greatly, but that does not mean that what others say is ‘crap’ or that their ideas about the values to cherish in business are any less worthwhile than are yours.

As for letting the issue sleep, fine by me, until someone else posts here and I find something of interest to which I feel a reply is in order, but even then I may not reply again. Of course, you can have the last word, and I’ll read it and I probably will not reply again. After your last word, why not let this thread die yourself, and attend to all that additional business you have received because of this so called ‘crap’.

Best regards,
Glenn Bartley

[CMGREPTILES]

FIRST OF ALL HOW I REPLY TO THE NONSENCE SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TOI DO WITH THE QUALITY OF ANIMALS I SELL. YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE WAY I RESPOND TO THESE THREADS AND THAT IS YOUR CHOICE OR OPPINION BUT IM DAMNED IF I DO AND DAMNED IF I DONT. ON ONE HAND I CAN IGNORE IT AND THAT MAKES ME LOOK BAD AND ON THE OTHER HAND I CAN RESPOND AND IT MAKES ME LOOK BAD BUT AT THIS POINT I DONT CARE BUT I WILL NOT SIT BACK AND LET MYSELF GET TRASHED BY PEOPLE OVER NONSENCE. GIVE ME THE ONE EXAMPLE ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD THAT MAKES ME LOOK LIKE SOMEONE WHO DESERVES THIS KIND OF TRASH. SHOW ME ONE PLACE WHERE I HAVE RIPPED SOMEONE OFF. SHOW ME ONE PLACE WHERE I DIDNT STAND BEHIND AN ANIMAL OR SOLD SOMETHING THAT WASNT WHAT I REPRESENTED IT AS. YOU CANT BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING. ALL THIS IS ABOUT IS THAT SOME PEOPLE DONE LIKE THE WAY I RESPOND WHEN ATTACKED AND PERSONALLY I DONT CARE. IM NOT GOING TO SIT BACK AND LET PEOPLE TRASH ME WITHOUT A FIGHT. THATS JUST THE WAY I AM AND MY ANIMALS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES SO IM NOT WORRIED. AND IM NOT ASKING ANYONE TO BUY FROM ME. THEY NEED TO MAKE THAT DECISION ON THIER OWN AND YOU CAN DEAL WITH SOMEONE THAT WILL LIE TO YOU TO GET THE SALE OR YOU CAN DEAL WITH SOMEONE THAT WILL SPEND THE TIME WITH YOU AND EXPLAIN EVERYTHING ABOUT THE ANIMAL WHICH IS WHAT I DO. DO YOU REALIZE WHEN I SPEAK TO PEOPLE ON THE PHONE MY CALLS LAST ALONG TIME AND ILL SPEND AN HOUR TALKING TO SOMEONE ABOUT A BABY BALL PYTHON JUST SO THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE GETTING SO MY APPROACH TO MY CUSTOMERS IS TOP NOTCH. AND I TAKE THIS VERY SERIOUSLLY AND WILL NOT SIT BACK AND LET ANYBODY TRY AND RUIN THAT NOT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE. BUT LIKE YOU SAID ITS OPPINIONS AND WE ALL HAVE THEM AND I AGREE AND IF PEOPLE DONT DEAL WITH ME BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD THEN I DONT CARE. IM NOT GOING TO LOOSE SLEEP OVER IT. AND THE COMMENT I MADE ABOUT THE BOI BEING A SECRET SOCIETY WAS A JOKE ABOUT WHAT SASHEENA SAID ABOUT ATTACKING THE BOI SO DONT BEAT THAT COMMENT INTO THE GROUND LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAS BEEN OVERDONE IN THIS THREAD.




CHRIS

[gkpstores]

Please folks, can you stop hammering on CMG? Is it so hard? I just surfed in here looking for information, and felt that CMG was getting WAY too hard a time.

Chris, I'm truly sorry if I got this thing going on you again. I really am looking forward to the GTPs. I'm very happy to know that your reptiles are top notch and respect that you care very passionately about your business. Honestly, I did not want to start the "let's trash CMG" trend again. In fact, my intent was just the opposite. I guess I should have known better. (My fault, folks, not CMG's!) So really man, I am sorry. You don't deserve this.

By the way folks, I have NEVER bought a reptile online or thorugh the classifieds before. (in fact, I have never posted on a message board before this one!) We just don't have much here in my neck of the woods anymore after our killer reptile store closed, so I ventured online and found CMG offering some beautiful GTPs for a great price. I talked to Chris on the phone about them. He was very cool and very honest. He was also very accomodating, letting me put a deposit down until I got my cage for the snakes finished. I don't know Chris personally. I live in Wisconsin, after all! This guy just deserves a break now, don't you all think? Please don't keep this up because I started it again. Had I known this would happen, I never would have posted anything. Help me end it now. Whaddya say?

[evansnakes]

Chris, I have a problem with your posts listing adult wild caught animals as axanthic and arctic. Why wouldn't you say that you have no idea if they are but they look like they may be as you damn well know that it is common for non genetic adult imports to come in looking axanthic while the vast majority of true genetic axanthics do not look very axanthic as adults. And the same for the arctic, there have been all kinds of adults that change color, losing pigment as they get older. I have some here. I have seen other peoples animals that are just 100% normal go through a shed and come out looking arctic or ghost. The IMG is the same principle and that is still not proven. So the reality is that you are most likely going to sell somebody an adult wild caught male worth about $15-25 as an axanthic for what $1000? $500? How much? It is dishonest. You have no way to back up your claims and if you will not state that they just wild caught animals that may or may not be genetic or change to "axanthic? and arctic?" then you are being dishonest and ripping people off.

[CMGREPTILES]

YOUR A FOOL . YOU SHOW ME ANYWHERE IN THAT POST WHERE IT STATES THEY ARE GENETIC. I HAVE HAD 4 PEOPLE MUCH BIGGER THAN YOURSELF VERIFY THAT THOSE ANIMALS ARE WHAT I STATED THEM AS. IF I WAS TRYING TO BE DISHONEST THEY WOULD SAY C.B OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I SPECIFICALLY STATED THAT THEY ARE WILD CAUGHT AND THEY ARE ADULTS SO THERE IS GOING TO BE NO CHANGING OF COLORS. ALSO THATS LIKE SAYING IF I IMPORT AN ALBINO IS IT NOT AN ALBINO TILL IT PROVES OUT? THOSE ANIMALS ARE WHAT THEY ARE AND IT IS UP TO WHOEVER BUYS THEM TO PROVE THEM OUT. IM NOT STANDING BEHIND THE GENETICS OF A WILD CAUGHT AND N OBODY ELSE WOULD THAT IS WHY THEY ARE ALOT CHEAPER BECAUSE YOU PAY FOR THE RISK SO GET A CLUE AND GET OVER IT. AGAIN I HAVE NOT MISREPRESENTED ANYTHING AND THIS IS JUST BULL<font color=red>[**censored**]</font> AND AT THIS POINT I DONT GIVE A <font color=red>[**censored**]</font> IF I GET BANNED FROM HERE OR WHATEVER YOU PEOPLE NEED TO FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO DO WITH YOUR TIME THAN WORRY ABOUT ME. ARE YOU SAYING THAT UNLESS IT IS A PROVEN MORPH IT DOESNT DESERVE A NAME? SO IF I WERE TO IMPORT AN ALBINO,PIED,SPIDER PASTEL? OR ARE THOSE JUST WILD CAUGHTS TO YOU? LISTEN TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. THESE ANIMALS ARE WHAT THEY ARE AND ARE TOTALLY REPRESENTED AS SUCH AND ANYONE THAT DOESNT REALIZE THE RISK WITH PROVING WILDCAUGHTS SHOULDNT EVEN BE TRYING TO BUY THEM AND I ALWAYS EXPLAIN WHAT THE ANIMAL IS AND WHAT THE DEAL IS WITH THE ANIMAL BEFORE I SELL ANYTHING. SO DIG UP SOMETHING ELSE



CHRIS

[CMGREPTILES]

THIS MALE WAS IMPORTED AT THE END OF LAST SUMMER AND STARTED EATING RIGHT AWAY UNTIL NOVEMBER. I FIGURED IT WAS BREEDING TIME SO I PUT HIM WITH A COUPLE GIRLS AND HE BRED THEM. I HAVE EGGS FROM HIM NOW AND I JUST SEPERATED HIM FROM THE LAST GIRL HE WAS IN WITH. HE DOES HAVE AN OLD SCAR ON HIS BACK BUT IT LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING THAT WAS FROM ALONG TIME AGO. HES TOTALLY HEALTHY. PICTURED WITH HIM IS A 4500 GRAM FEMALE SO YOU CAN SEE BOTH HIS SIZE AND HIS AWESOME COLORS. OR SHOULD I SAY LACK OF COLOR. AND NO THE FEMALE IS NOT FOR SALE AT ALL SO PLEASE DONT ASK. THE ARCTIC FEMALE WAS ALSO AN IMPORT BUT AS YOU CAN SEE BY HER COLOR WHICH IS ALMOST WHITE SHE WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT ANIMAL FOR A PASTEL PROJECT OR REALLY ANY PROJECT YOU WANT TO THROW HER INTO. BUT SHE IS SIMPLY GEORGEOUS. SHE HAS EATEN BUT IS PICKY. BUT SHE IS WELL WORTH THE INVESTMENT. THE PIC OF THE ARCTIC FEMALE IS PICTURED WITH A 2800 GRAM FEMALE FOR SIZE COMPARISON. THE REASON IM DOING THIS IS BECAUSE MY SCALE HAD A MISFORTUNATE ACCIDENT LAST WEEKEND. BUT I AM ONLY TAKING SERIOUS CASH TRADE OFFERS ON HER. SHE IS PICTURED IN THE 3RD PIC


THANKS ALOT
CHRIS
CMG REPTILES









OK SO YOU CAN SEE IT CLEARLY STATES THE HISTORY OF THE ANIMALS AS BEING IMPORTED SO WHERE IN THE HELL AM I BEING DISHONEST? AND I HAVE HAD THESE ANIMALS FOR A WHILE SO THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE COLORS SO WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH THIS AD?


CHRIS

[Dennis Hultman]

Since Chris has been here posting under a false name, I took the time to go back and read some of these earlier threads.

Your a liar.
This is nothing less than rediculous. I have bought hets directly form C.M.G. and they have proved out everytime. I have also been to there facility and seen first hand the animals they have. I would not think twice about any animals they have posted. So whoever this Rene is Why dont you go after the real scam artists out there instead of trying to ruin the names of honest businesses.
Sincerely
John Mcallister



"THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ONE TO RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE"

And you are too!

Ive seen the animal in person at a show and i have to say it is an awesome animal. The only thing i cant understand is why they want to sell it. But i talked to them for awhile and basically its for sale or trade for he righ price whatever that means. Ralph davis sold one that he produced for 20 grand last year. Even though the bodies look kinda different the heads are the same and who knows this may be the next big thing. Imagine a blackhead albino or a blackhead pastel, that would be hot. If i had the loot id take the chance. But i think they are trying to trade for other morphs more than the cash. At least thats the vibe i got from them. Im thinking about that axanthic, its a real nice male but they told me he might be traded already. Anyway thats my time.



Peace j-dog




. Actually, I should state Chris.

All this posts came from the same computer. All the accounts are shills. Seems typical of you Chris. Peace back at you.

[Dennis Hultman]

_______________________________________________

[Dennis Hultman]

Well i know chris and he is a busy person but he stated in his thread that he stands behind the animals. and whether you see it or not you are making him out to be a bad guy. we have spent alot of money with him this year and have been totally satisfied. we also just proved out het clowns we bought from him last year. but i just cant stand when people post on here and jump the gun and trash people especially good people. but i guess that is what this site is designed to do. so trash away but i will spend more money with them any chance i get.


DD
REPTILES

You two sweet heart! Chris man you sure did make up a lot posts from the same computer with different user names in this thread.

[Dennis Hultman]

All for Chris... LOL, That is so cute!

[RichsBallPythons]

The lies, and anonymous activity continues.

[Dennis Hultman]

Originally Posted by SNAKESALLAROUND View Post
Ive seen the animal in person at a show and i have to say it is an awesome animal.


I bet you have since you registered with one of Chris's email address.

[Dennis Hultman]

And this is Chris's new snakelab1 account with the name Michelle Moore.

Compared to the ALLTHINGSREPTIL account in this thread with the name John Mcalister which shares the same IP and date of birth with Chris.



Just in case there is any doubts...