Liesen Line Trick is not a Dom, it's a Codom... Super Trick

[Vittoamp]

Listed as and thought to be a Dom gene, has now been proven to be a Codom. Keven Winter has provided me with these pictures of the Super Trick out of the Liesen Line. From what he is telling me, it's getting brighter with age.

Enjoy

Liesen Line Trick Ball and Lesser Trick Ball

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee466/vittoamp1/Trickwtricklesser.jpg


Liesen Line Super Trick

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee466/vittoamp1/SuperTrickpic3.jpg

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee466/vittoamp1/SuperTrickpic4.jpg

[Focal]

Very neat. I don't know much about it, but I thought it was a special line of a black pastel gene, but the super says something different.

[Vittoamp]

Very neat. I don't know much about it, but I thought it was a special line of a black pastel gene, but the super says something different.


It's rather neat. Kevin Winter and partners in this project were hoping it wasn't going to be a all white snake. So when this super was produced, it really changed the idea of this morph.

[MrBig]

Nick I do beleive it came in attached to the Black Pastel gene, and that it took a number of years to isolate it. However I'm alittle skeptical of that being a super, I don't see an almost completely yellowless snake turning out like a superpastel in color. I have been wrong many times before. Any info on the sire and dam? I'd bet at least one has pastel in it. Very interesting new gene though.

[Focal]

Nick I do beleive it came in attached to the Black Pastel gene, and that it took a number of years to isolate it. However I'm alittle skeptical of that being a super, I don't see an almost completely yellowless snake turning out like a superpastel in color. I have been wrong many times before. Any info on the sire and dam? I'd bet at least one has pastel in it. Very interesting new gene though.

Ahh, gotcha. That makes sense.

[Randy F]

Any info on the sire and dam?

:iagree:was it a trick to a trick and no other gene involved?

[Vittoamp]

Nick I do beleive it came in attached to the Black Pastel gene, and that it took a number of years to isolate it. However I'm alittle skeptical of that being a super, I don't see an almost completely yellowless snake turning out like a superpastel in color. I have been wrong many times before. Any info on the sire and dam? I'd bet at least one has pastel in it. Very interesting new gene though.

Sending an email to answer some of these questions.

Stand by

[Vittoamp]

Nick I do beleive it came in attached to the Black Pastel gene, and that it took a number of years to isolate it. However I'm alittle skeptical of that being a super, I don't see an almost completely yellowless snake turning out like a superpastel in color. I have been wrong many times before. Any info on the sire and dam? I'd bet at least one has pastel in it. Very interesting new gene though.

What I was told it was a pick up that was imported from Africa

[MrBig]

When I looked into them, was considering getting in on the project, I remember that it came in attached to another morph, wither Black pastel or maybe just pastel. I also remember reading on Leisen's site, that he had successfully isolated it for the first time a couple years ago. I am in no way shape or form an expert, but I did diligent research when I looked into the line originally.

[MrBig]

Is it wrong that i like the base better then the "super" anyway? I will admit that the lesser trick is sick. Hahaha I made a funny. Really would love some info on the pairing and clutchmates of the super that you posted. It seeming to be a dom gene at first is the main reason I decided not to get into this project.

[deobra2869]

I am actually getting a liesen line black pastel and when talking to gary he said the trick is attached to his line of black pastel.......

[pythonpaintjobs]

Is it just me or does the super trick just look like a pastel??? I see the crazy, busy patterns on the trick, I would have thought a super trick would have an extremly busy wacked out pattern.........

[deobra2869]

I would have expected something more

[Vittoamp]

Did he talk about the super form?

Attached to a black pastel line but producing a yellow snake?? Now I'm confused

[B&C Ball Pythons]

I agree. If that is indeed the super trick w/o any other genes, I'd rather have a single gene trick.

[Randy F]

Did he talk about the super form?

Attached to a black pastel line but producing a yellow snake?? Now I'm confused

Hey Vitto,

Just a word of advice, wait and let people post their new findings themselves. I don't say this to be mean or anything. What happens is you talk to Joe about something him and Bob made. You are excited and want to share because its cool, and being a cool guy, you want others to be enlightened. The problem is that there are going to be questions. If it is something that has never been produced there are going to be a lot of questions.....ones that only those who produced can answer. Now comes the problem that Vitto said he produced a super trick. You notice that Joe and Bob did not produce it.....that was on page one. By page three Vitto has a new morph that Gary Leisen stole from him. By page 5 Vitto is an idiot because its a normal pastel (because Joe and Bob sent the wrong picture). By page 7 someone finally stands up for Vitto and tells everyone that jumped in to read page one. I've been there being excited for people, but it can come back to bite you. Stay Vitto the cool guy:thumbsup:

[deobra2869]

Did he talk about the super form?

Attached to a black pastel line but producing a yellow snake?? Now I'm confused

Is this question directed at me?
I'm am confused as well. i don't see how that is a super trick and as others said :) if it is then I'd rather have the single gene trick as well

[hhmoore]

One of the nice things about ball pythons is that there is something for everybody. What some people dislike, others will love. While I like the black pastels from this line, I'm otherwise unimpressed (and I think the trick lesser is awful).
That means nothing, except that I'm disinterested....I still wish them the best with their projects - they should provide a good deal of fun over the years (and isn't that what this is about, for many of us?).

[deobra2869]

One of the nice things about ball pythons is that there is something for everybody. What some people dislike, others will love. While I like the black pastels from this line, I'm otherwise unimpressed (and I think the trick lesser is awful).
That means nothing, except that I'm disinterested....I still wish them the best with their projects - they should provide a good deal of fun over the years (and isn't that what this is about, for many of us?).

His line of black pastels are amazing imo best of the best! I like the trick gene but not with light morphs i think a mystic,phantom, or mojo trick would be awesome! And would love to see it thrown into ghi or even clown ( clown only because they are my fav) can't wait to see what else is done with this gene!

[MrBig]

I like tom barnharts black pastels almost as much as the leisen line.

[Vittoamp]

This is what I got as a reply after emailing Kevin Winter some questions:

"The parents are a normal and a black pastel. I think Gary Liesen still has them but I do not have any pics. It is possible that the first mutation started in these snakes.

It appears that the codom gene for trick makes yellow just like the codom gene for yellow belly makes ivory. As we know, many codoms make variations of white snakes which still blows my mind. I am sooo glad that a super trick is not a white snake.

I am betting that the yellow in the super trick is xanthism. My trick lesser has much more yellow than a lesser and I bet a super trick lesser wil be a very yellow animal."

[john33]

Hey Big your right Barnharts line is very similar, and making sick combs. But still untapped as far as potential. Vitto... axanthic means absence of yellow pigment. That pastel is not a super trick. IMO

[pythonpaintjobs]

super trick = every pastel in my collection

[Vittoamp]

Hey Big your right Barnharts line is very similar, and making sick combs. But still untapped as far as potential. Vitto... axanthic means absence of yellow pigment. That pastel is not a super trick. IMO


The word is xanthism, not axanthic.

[Double B Reptiles]

sounds and looks to me like the trick is heterozygous for a form of recessive pastel (xanthism) if that truly is the "super" trick.

[amos1974]

I have a close friend that has a female LLT. when he got it several months ago he was told by Gary that the super form looked like a Pastel.

[john33]

Well conscense is super trick=pastel form. Guess i'm alittle disappointed at this stage. Hopefully additional genes will prove more visual results.

[Vittoamp]

It may look like a pastel. But I was told that it's getting brighter and richer as it gets older. So it doesn't behave like a pastel, which tend to brown out.


Also here's the history of how Gary got the Trick and what his plans were. He posted this in 2010:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=1861614,1861614&key=2010

[snakemansnakes]

Well I guess I'll have to second guess about myself getting into the LLT craze now. Major disappointment.

[MrBig]

That is one of the threads I was q uoting, I am not sure that a pastel like super is good for the future market of this morph. I guess time will tell if there are any must have combos from this.
I am not surprised that harald isn't impressed, way too many spots for him.
I think the Barnhart line is onto something with his YB Black pastel crosses, whereas the leisen line has focused on isolation of the trick from the black pastel. While I prefer the direction barnhart has taken, I can appreciate the contribution of both projects. I plan to pickup a BP YB from Tom in the next year or so.

[dustinNMpythons]

I am actually getting a liesen line black pastel and when talking to gary he said the trick is attached to his line of black pastel.......

The price difference between liesen line BP and trick wouldn't make since for it to be attached to his black pastels. Why would the trick be going for many thousands of dollars and last I knew his line of black pastels were going for a little more than market value. Unless he's marked his black pastels up considerably now that he knows they are two gene animals I guess I haven't kept up with this well enough. In my opinion I would rather have a desert ghost project if this is what the super actually looks like.

[MrBig]

It came in attached to the BP gene, but he produces BP's that don't have the trick gene and now produces tricks without the BP gene. The few BP tricks I've seen him let go have been MUCH higher the market value and higher then the single gene trick. I like the desert ghosts, just don't know much about them.

[dustinNMpythons]

oh ok makes sense now

[Gary liesen]

The TRICK SUPER in the pics has not been proven at this time. He is a baby and should breed this fall.
My name is Gary Liesen, creator of the L.L.T. Line
He came from a TRICK X PASTEL TRICK paring.
In the clutch there were Tricks, Pastel Tricks, and the "SUPER".
My friend did a TRICK X TRICK pairing and one of his offspring was a MIRROR image of my supposed SUPER.
So at this time we believe that they "COULD" be SUPER tricks
I am the breeder of the TRICK line that produced the supposed SUPER and sent pics of same to a friend of mine and that is how they got posted.
Lets hope that it proves itself in the very near breeding future

[Focal]

super trick = every pastel in my collection

I challenge you. Post a pastel that looks like that, from your collection.

[pythonpaintjobs]

I challenge you. Post a pastel that looks like that, from your collection.
I always like a challenge. Let me know what you think.

[MrBig]

Thanks for clearing everything up Gary. Did the one that was identical have as much yellow? or is it possible you have a pastel super here?

[glk832]

Whatever it is its nice.. that pastel pythonpaintjobs does look like the super trick but who can say what going on in the gene of the supertrick.... IDK Im not a season breeder JMO...I've always liked the trick since the first I saw one one the Kingsnake ads so who ever is working with it keep doing what u doing...

[dustinNMpythons]

I don't really like the trick if thats what the super looks like, I'd rather buy a desert ghost

[pythonpaintjobs]

I want to make something clear. I think the Liesen line trick is really cool when mixed with a black pastel. I wasn't trying to discredit the morph. I didn't believe the picture posted was a super trick. If it is a super it would be a real disappointment for me. I stated before I would expect the super to be really "tricked out" maybe like a GHI or something really busy. I'm sure there will be many cool combo's to come out in the future with the trick gene. Only time will tell.

[Gary liesen]

Thanks for clearing everything up Gary. Did the one that was identical have as much yellow? or is it possible you have a pastel super here?

His is just as bright.
On the World Of Ball Pythons, MORPHS, under TRICK, my good friend from B.R.B. Reptiles posted pics of his Super Pastel Trick.

Gary Liesen

[dwherp]

Sorry I'm late to the party - just saw this thread. I think the Trick is the coolest new morph I've seen in many years, which is why I parted with some good coin for a pair in 2011. In person these things are amazing! Not only is the black crisp, but the yellows really pop, and the loopy lacey patterns look like they were designed by Tim Burton. Here are photos of my pair. From what I've gathered from Gary and BRB, the only combos created so far are with the Pastel, the Lesser, and possibly the Spider, unless you count the Super Trick as a combo. Very strange that the super would have a less busy pattern than the plain Trick, but I'm still very happy that it has a Super form... will make our job as breeders easier in the future. The end product that we seek may be Tricks and Trick combos, but a Super is a much more efficient way to produce more of all of them. My pair have been phenomenal eaters. My male is 750 grams and currently breeding up a storm... can't wait to see what new Trick combos 2012 will bring!

Cheers,
Dan

[Top Shelf Rodents]

Gary I need to know your opinion on my girl.
http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i417/farrari916/2012-03-16_15-09-28_517.jpg

With much respect,
James

[Shadera]

Hard to tell from just a top shot, and I know I'm not Gary but ... gnarly yellowbelly?

[NorthernRegius.com]

... and the loopy lacey patterns look like they were designed by Tim Burton. ... can't wait to see what new Trick combos 2012 will bring!

Cheers,
Dan

:iagree:

[Top Shelf Rodents]

I bought this girl with her sister in a full collection purchase. I trust the man I bought these from greatly, so i do believe these have vanilla in them but this girl... has got to have something extra. reminded me of a trick. Just not as marbly.

[Top Shelf Rodents]

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i417/farrari916/884541_10200933351205941_2000482873_o_zpsffbf5fd5. jpg

[ClarkT]

Very cool snake, Domasio. Looks like it has leopard in it more than trick, maybe. I LOVE the trick and trick combos! Can't wait for our male to get busy breeding... BP breeding is always packed with agonizing lessons in patience!

I'd love to hear some updates on the "super" trick.

[Top Shelf Rodents]

The thing is is that i also own a leopard and this girl has too much blushing in her pattern in my opinion to be a leopard.

[Top Shelf Rodents]

http://myballpython.com/assets/images/Leopard_BallPython.jpg
The leopards just have much too dark of a pattern IMO. Who knows. She is breeding as i type this with a spinnerblast male. So whatever pops out will give us a good answer to what she may be.

[ClarkT]

Well, if she is a vanilla leopard, that would explain her lighter color. Really cool girl whatever she is. Hopefully she'll prove out for you.

[Top Shelf Rodents]

Thank you for your feedback Clark.