Prolapsed rectum

[RobNJ]

A local person that bought a mojave from me last summer texted me last night asking about a snake with "its intestines hanging out". Immediately, I thought of a prolapsed rectum, which it turned out to be, and it happened to be the mojave I produced dealing with it. I've never seen a prolapse or dealt with one in person, so with whatever quick research I could do, advised him to make sure his enclosure was spotless, try to keep the swollen area moist, and to get to a vet. Well, he got to the vet today, and was told that the snake needed surgery. Unfortunate situation, to say the least. The vet, who I also use, told this person that a prolapsed rectum is caused by feeding too often and/or feeding prey items that are too large, dehydration, stress caused by errors in husbandry, or a combination of all. I have read about using a sugar/water paste on the swollen area, neosporin, preparation H, etc...and help massage it back down and bandage it hoping it will go back into place, but felt it was not my place to inform the person to try such methods, as I can't speak to the effectiveness of them. I'd like to hear if anyone has experience this on their own. I also attached the pic of the prolapse that the person sent me last night...

[stevek123]

I have no experience with this whatsoever, but once the readers chime in we will both learn a bit I am sure. I hope this all turns out OK for the mohave.

[RobNJ]

I posted this so that...

A) For those who have never seen one, this is what a prolapsed rectum looks like. Not a pretty sight.

B) I'm all for cute pics, new pick ups, breeding pics, etc...but let's face it, bad things happen. Granted, this didn't happen to me, but why wait to talk about bad things until they actually happen to one of us?

C) It makes me rethink feeding even further. I only feed once a week, regardless of size, except for females that have bred...they get offered every 4-5 days, but smaller meals. So what I often think about is why, when balls easily thrive off of one feeding weekly, and can thrive on even less food, do people feed more, especially when they are young? This is not me being critical of anyone who feeds every 4-5 days, though I don't see any benefit to it other than the snake will grow faster. Sausage butts are cute and all, but seeing that a big blowout of feces, or passing waste too often can potentially lead to the picture above, is it worth the risk just so a snake grows a little faster? Balls digest much more slowly than, let's say, colubrids, who eat and then crap 2-3 days later. Balls can easily have 2+ meals in them between passing the waste.

Again, this is just open for discussion, and I'm not criticizing anyone or anything, as I truly don't know one way or the other. Would still also love to hear anyone's personal experiences with prolapses. From the reading I've done on them, they can be an easy home fix, though if it's a recurring problem, obviously something needs to be done aside from sugar and/or Preparation H.

[hhmoore]

I've never had to deal with a rectal prolapse; and I've only had one incident of prolapsed hemipene (I found it caked with shredded aspen, and haven't used particulate substrate with breeding snakes since).
In the above mentioned case, I soaked the snake for a day, then manually removed any remaining shreds of aspen - an obvious first step prior to attempting to get it back inside. Next, I made a sugary mess, and let him soak in that (the previous soak had the beneficial effect of fully hydrating, so I wasn't worried about him drinking the sugary stuff). Since the hemipene didn't go back in on it's own, I manually worked it in. The snake recovered fully - to the best of my knowledge, at least...I still have him; but I have not bred him again, so I'm not sure if it would happen again (I've read that once a prolapse occurs, the snake is more prone to it happening again).

My personal opinion is that a lot of people do overfeed their BPs, and I can't help but wonder about long term consequences. I haven't read anything about premature deaths, like with boas and burms, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening...the morph craze hasn't been going for much more than 10 yrs.

[JustChad04]

Oh wow, thank you for posting this Robert. If you dont get any helpful solutions at least you have done a service to us by providing something educational. Never seen this or new what would cause it.

Thanks and best of luck helping the mojo!

[RobNJ]

My personal opinion is that a lot of people do overfeed their BPs, and I can't help but wonder about long term consequences. I haven't read anything about premature deaths, like with boas and burms, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening...the morph craze hasn't been going for much more than 10 yrs.

I agree with you on that point Harald. It was the 80's and 90's when boas and burms were the rage, and there's been plenty of time to see the effects of overfeeding them. With balls, I don't think they've been kept commonly enough for long enough to be able to say what is too much food and any adverse effects it may have. Though I don't know for sure what caused this snake to prolapse, a very real cause of prolapsed rectums is overfeeding.



Oh wow, thank you for posting this Robert. If you dont get any helpful solutions at least you have done a service to us by providing something educational. Never seen this or new what would cause it.

Thanks and best of luck helping the mojo!

Thanks Chad! Not my snake, but I do hope all the best to the owner. He went to a good vet, and my understanding is that the surgery to correct this is a fairly simple procedure, though I'm sure a costly procedure.

[stevek123]

Would you say overfeeding as in too large a rat, or too many, too often or all of the above?

[RobNJ]

Too large and/or too often.

[JustChad04]

seeing how that bp is very young i would say too large. looks like a prolapsed rectum kinda works the same way a hemmoroid does for us. Poor fella

[kellysballs]

I have only had to deal with one prolapse and it was a prolapsed hemipene in my male pictus gecko. He had 3-4 girls that he was servicing for about 2 years before George had his issue. I discovered it, soaked him in water cleaned it off and made a paste of sugar and water before I took him to the vet. Unfortunately George's hemipene had to be removed as it was apparently out for two days before I spotted it. These guys where breeders at my pet store and I fed them friday and found the prolapse monday afternoon when I cleaned their cage. So $98 later minus 1 hemipene George was retired. But he is still living and thriving just not breeding.

[A&S Reptiles]

My step mother is an idiot and ever since I moved out, she can't care for all their snakes. Her son's baby normal prolapsed, although not as bad as Rob's picture. I ordered her to use paper towels as bedding, keep it moist and very carefully try to work it back in. My father used a q-tip to get it in. I have no idea how much force her used, but it stayed in. A month later she died. They hardly fed her as she never grew. I can't say what size MICE they were feeding her either. But they didn't feed her again after the prolapse. She became extremely skinny and I wanted to take her home with me. She'll be fine, they said. And she died. This isn't much help as the prolapse or lack of food could have killed her, but I did walk them through how to handle it. They didn't feed her too often but could have been too big.

[Helenthereef]

I don't have anything constructive to offer about treatment, but thanks for posting. We all learn from this kind of post and as such it's probably more valuable than the standard "pretty animal, all's well" thread.

[GREGORY J HALL]

Some things just happen,it looks fresh in the pic I would have soaked in warm water & reinserted it myself Ive seen it in turtles before,I doubt it would come from overfeeding.

[hhmoore]

Would you say overfeeding as in too large a rat, or too many, too often or all of the above?
Any, or all, of the above
This isn't much help as the prolapse or lack of food could have killed her, but I did walk them through how to handle it. They didn't feed her too often but could have been too big.
Given what you've described, I'd be inclined to suspect a combination of things. When overall husbandry is considered lacking, dehydration is a common factor....heck, it's more common than most people think with outwardly healthy captive snakes, between too dry conditions and infrequent water changes. (Think about it.....fill a glass with fresh water, and leave it on your nightstand for 5 days. Are you going to drink it? How about this one - have you ever removed a water bowl still had plenty in it, cleaned, refilled, and replaced it; only to see the snake go over and drink?)

Ive seen it in turtles before,I doubt it would come from overfeeding.
:rolleyes:
Why would you doubt that it could be from overfeeding, esp after the vet offered that as one of the possible contributing factors? (fwiw, this is one of the conditions I've spoken with my vet about in the past, and she included overfeeding as one of the reasons it would happen.) If you meant you doubted that overfeeding alone would cause it, or if you were trying to say that the snake doesn't "look" overfed, it would make more sense.
Off the top of my head, I would also suggest that temperature and overly small enclosures could also be factors (not necessarily in this case, but generally).

[preacher]

I would never claim to be any type of expert on this subject but I have raised many different types of exotic birds as well as domestic chickens and ducks and have seen this often with birds! When a female is dehydrated and trying to pass an egg or if the egg is particularly large it often has this outcome. I do agree that feeding to large a meal would be a problem due to the large fecal mass trying to be expelled, however, I also believe that passing a hard urate (not sure on the spelling) due to dehydration could cause this very quickly.

[Randy F]

luckly it looks really fresh. A few years back I had a breeder pastel female get one. I had been away for the weekend and came back to see it prolapsed and caked. I soaked her and got it clean. I took it to the vet who reinserted it. It came back out a little a couple of times which I was able to get it back in. The vet said there was always the chance that it would continue to do this. At that point I figure it was no longer a breeder for me. It ended up dying from a bacterial infection from it a short time later. I guess I cleaned it so well that the vet never had the thought of looking for one. At the time it was a first so I never thought to ask. Hopefully what he has was that clean and just swollen. As far as feeding, think about when you have to take a big dump......you push hard. Too big or too much could effect the snake in its ability to easily pass it.

[GREGORY J HALL]

Most vets dont know much about reptiles I know of only two that I would trust have had dealings with others & couldnt even ID the species I had,so not all "vets" are experts, Id take the advice of a big time Ball breeders thats been doing it for 15 plus years before a vet & ask who their vet is,over feeding ? Im no expert but if they had their fill they stop eating,force feeding which some do is not normal ,feeding naturally is normal.

[Randy F]

Most vets dont know much about reptiles I know of only two that I would trust have had dealings with others & couldnt even ID the species I had,so not all "vets" are experts

:iagree:my old vet did a lot with reptiles, but was mainly furry pets. I am lucky enough that Dr. Boyer who is one of the 8 board certified reptile specialists in the U.S. is about 35 miles from me.

[RobNJ]

Most vets dont know much about reptiles I know of only two that I would trust have had dealings with others & couldnt even ID the species I had,so not all "vets" are experts

Fortunately, the vet that this snake went to is a good vet...I actually found him after run ins with a few vets who claimed to treat reptiles, yet seemed to have difficulty bringing themselves to even touch snakes.

Im no expert but if they had their fill they stop eating,force feeding which some do is not normal ,feeding naturally is normal.

I'm no expert either, but as far as I know, most animals, including snakes will eat more than they should given the opportunity. Just because they can or will eat doesn't necessarily mean that they should.

[RobNJ]

luckly it looks really fresh. A few years back I had a breeder pastel female get one. I had been away for the weekend and came back to see it prolapsed and caked. I soaked her and got it clean. I took it to the vet who reinserted it. It came back out a little a couple of times which I was able to get it back in. The vet said there was always the chance that it would continue to do this. At that point I figure it was no longer a breeder for me. It ended up dying from a bacterial infection from it a short time later. I guess I cleaned it so well that the vet never had the thought of looking for one. At the time it was a first so I never thought to ask. Hopefully what he has was that clean and just swollen. As far as feeding, think about when you have to take a big dump......you push hard. Too big or too much could effect the snake in its ability to easily pass it.

And sorry to hear about this episode Randy...must have been a downer for sure.

[GREGORY J HALL]

If you keep them long enough things happen just like humans, it happens