KolorBurst Cham - Joshua Coppens - Will not honor 7 day health guarantee

[figg2112]

Let my introduce myself. My name is Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough and I am part owner of Chamalot Chameleons in Kissimmee Florida. We have been keeping chameleons for 7 years and breeding them for 5 years. We are small time breeders and take a lot of pride in the animals we produce. I am always eager to help new cham owners.. If you have watched any chameleons videos on youtube you have most likely seen some of mine, educational and entertaining.

I consider myself a very reasonable person but I am having an issue with a seller on here and I feel I need to post what is going on

I responded to an ad in the chameleon section posted by "Kolorburst Chameleons" Joshua Coppens

His ad can be sen here:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2725609

Text from the Ad I responded to:

"I have a clutch of 4 month old Blue Bar Ambilobe Panther Chameleons that i am now shipping. The Sire as you can see is very vibrantly colored.I have a variety of both males and females that are sired by one of my breeders Mr Chameleon who's father is Hunter from Fl Chams. Males are $200 SHIPPED and Females are are $150 SHIPPED TO ANYWHERE IN THE CONTINENTAL US.Please email me @ Kolorburstchams@yahoo.com if you are interested!!! I ship through Reptile Express which is a Fedex shipper. All chameleons will be shipped Priority overnight You can also call at 239-896-7248 CALL JOSH @ 239-896-7248 OR EMAIL ME @ KOLORBURSTCHAMS@YAHOO.COM
CHAMELEONS COME WITH LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEE AND 7 DAY HEALTH GUARANTEE!!!!!!"

The chams posted in the ad looked very nice so I decided to purchase two females for future breeding projects. I did do a BOI search for the sellers name on here and came up with nothing.. I saw he has a Facebook page as well is a member on the chameleonforums.com.

When the chameleons arrived they where very underweight. I had to leave for work after they arrived but I emailed the seller right away to say the one female in particular was thin.

The next morning I had time to watch them properly. I realized the one was very very thin. The other one was also thin but not as bad - no fat pads on his head and indented line on his arm. his eyes also appear slightly sunken...and I now realized it was a male instead of a female) The pair spent all day asleep.

I emailed the seller again and after a few back and forths (which I will post) The seller asked if I would wait a few days to see if they recover.

On Wednesday the chameleons had not improved. The skinny female has gone downhill even more. I often find her slumped over a branch asleep.
I again emailed the seller but so far have not gotten a response.

I opened a dispute with paypal and the seller esculated it to a claim. So I know he is aware of my emails but is choosing to ignore me.


Here are the emails. I color coated the emails with the thought they would be easier to read.. hope it is.

The first is from him on the evening they where to ship out:

From:kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date:Thu, November 8, 2012 5:33 pm
To: sales@chamalotchameleons.com <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>

I need ir help all the lil ones are dark colored today are these boys or girls

Kolorburst Chameleons[/COLOR]

(Sellers photos)
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/IMAG0649.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/IMAG0650.jpg

From: sales@chamalotchameleons.com





To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 5:37 pm


I am leaning toward female on the first one.. The coloring looks very
girly. Going by the tail it could go either way. I am leaning toward
female though

The second one I am sure is female 100%.







Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From:kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date:Thu, November 8, 2012 5:33 pm
To: sales@chamalotchameleons.com <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
Priority: Normal


Ok lol this is my most unfavorite part of this. So u think because of the
> red throat num one is a female
>
> Kolorburst Chameleons





From: sales@chamalotchameleons.com
To: ""DarkRed"@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 5:44 pm


The blue dots on the cheeks. It looks like a lot of my little females at
4 months old. I don't know though for sure. I usually go by the
tail bump to be certain but its hard to tell from that picture. Males
have a slight taper where girls will be really straight tailed. Some are
harder to tell than others.






Subject Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From: kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, November 8, 2012 5:54 pm
To: sales@chamalotchameleons.com
Priority: Normal

Is this 100 percent a boy?

Kolorburst Chameleons

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/new/BOA/IMAG0651.jpg






From: sales@chamalotchameleons.com
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 6:01 pm


I would say male on that one




Subject: Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From: kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, November 8, 2012 6:09 pm
To: sales@chamalotchameleons.com

Good im sending the two i showed u first the def dont have much or any of a buldge

Kolorburst Chameleons



I took the morning off from work to be there for the shipment. The package arrived Fedex Right on time. They where packed well in deli cups with a heat pack for the chilly night. As I removed them from the box I saw one had indented cheeks which is typical of a chameleon that is under weight. I put them in the cage and watered and fed them. I had to run off to work so I shot the seller an email and left:




From: sales@chamalotchameleons.com
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Fri, Nov 9, 2012 10:38 am


HI

The chams arrived. Put them in the cage and misted them.

One of the girls looks a little on the thin side (slightly indented cheeks
and thin 'fat pads' on head) I fed and watered them. I have to go
to work now so I will have to observe their appetite over the weekend.
She may just be thin due to high competition for food.. hopefully that is
all it is and will fatten up a little

Dessirae





From: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
To: <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Fri, Nov 9, 2012 10:47 AM


Good to hear. Yea she was the smallest one so maybe she was getting bullied

Kolorburst Chameleons




The Next day was Saturday so I was able to watch the new arrivals. They where both very lethargic. They kept their eyes closed for the majority of the morning. They where both underweight but the one I had noticed the day before was very skinny..emaciated. The other one was also skinny but not near as bad.. He looked like he was actually a male now too. I know it can be hard to sex chams at a young age so that is not an issue. My issue is that he spent the entire morning hanging upside down with both eyes closed.

Here are photos of the animals I received:

Female:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/female.jpg

You can really see the sunken cheeks here:
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/female2.jpg

How she spends her day
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/female3.jpg


Male sleeps during the day and is also little underweight

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/2012-11-10Male.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/2012-11-12104044.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/2012-11-13171607.jpg


I decided that these where not healthy chameleons. Thank goodnness for the 7 day health guarentee right? I thought they would survive a trip back as it is instate and not have to go on a plane overnight. I thought it was best to tell the seller my intentions as soon as possable.


I wrote the seller again after having them a little over 24 hours:




From: "sales@chamalotchameleons.com" <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 11:52 am


Hi

Well I hate to say it ... But I am going to have to return these two chameleons. I believe they have health issues. They are both very very underweight . They have indented cheeks and no fat pads on their head. One is more underweight than the other. They have not shown any interest in food and I have observed them both sleeping all morning. Even hanging upside down under the branch asleep .

The less skinny one looks like it may be a male as well.

I will observe them for the rest of the weekend but my intentions are to return them to you under your health guarantee, sorry to say.

Dessirae






From: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
To: "sales@chamalotchameleons.com" <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 2:06 PM


Ok. I dont know how we go about doing that ive never had a problem with one ive sold. I observe them everyday and never saw one not eat. As far as you thinking ones a male i asked you to verify for me and i sent the 2 u thought were females. Theres no point in returning them to me if u truely think they are sick because the stress of shipping them back im sure would kill them

Kolorburst Chameleons






From: "sales@chamalotchameleons.com" <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 2:33 pm


I totally understand that sexing baby chams is very tricky. And know you asked my advice. That one from the photo looked more female, but I couldn't be sure . Now I see him in person I think a boy (i still could be wrong) Anyway that is not the reason I want to return them.

I want to return them because they are very underweight. The smaller one is more so than the 'boy' ..that and they have been sleeping a lot since they got here.

I don't believe they would die being shipped back. They are not on 'deaths door'. And shipping would still be instate so they will not be subject to a plane ride.

I can ship them to you (i will cover shipping cost back) for a refund, minus your shipping cost to send them to me in the first place.

Lastly I want to say that if you are new to raising baby chams, I understand it can be easy to miss signs that one may not be 100% healthy. We have been breeding chams for about 5 years now and when we started knew almost nothing about raising babies. I am not angry or think you tried to sell me a sick cham purposely. I also understand if you have a lot of babies in the cage it can be hard to single out one from the other.

Bottom line is I would like a refund if I return them or not. I am happy to return them to you. If you absolutely don't want them shipped again I can find a home for them where someone can work with them if need be

Dessirae






From: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
To: "sales@chamalotchameleons.com" <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 2:59 PM


I apprieciate your knowledge on chameleons but my health guarentee is in place for a chameleon which would die within the 7 days after delivery,not for a "under weight cham". If i returned money to every person who thought there might be a issue id be dealing with a real headache. Are u telling me u return money to anyone who "thinks" the cham has a issue? I would say to give them acouple more days to let them settle in and eat. Its only been one day and i have had chams come to me that wouldnt feed for several days but whos health was perfectly fine

Kolorburst Chameleons





From: "sales@chamalotchameleons.com" <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 3:32 pm


Yes I do return money to everyone who thinks their chameleon is not healthy within the 7 day guarantee. That is why I have very high standards when it comes to chameleons I shipped out. And in 5 years I have been selling chameleons I have only had to take back and refund payment one time.

I even extend the courtesy to people who think their chameleon might have a problem on day 6 for extra days incase the chameleon IS sick. My top priority is that people are happy with their chameleons.

The second I open the box and saw these chams I was dissapointed on their weight. That is why I was sure to email you right away to tell you. If the only symptom was closing their eyes on the first day would have no problem waiting out the week thinking that they needed to settle in.

I have been raising chameleons long enough to know when they have a problem. If your 'health guarantee' is only for chameleons that will die in 7 days (!) it should be spelled out in your ad.

Since I know you think you are right..how about I post an inquiry on fauna BOA and let the community tell me what they think should be done.

If you want to wait 7 days to decide if I should return them I will. But I figured why wait for chameleons I am not happy with

Dessirae






Subject:Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From:kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date:Sat, November 10, 2012 3:39 pm
To:sales@chamalotchameleons.com <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
Priority: Normal


You can post whatever you want on fauna that is up to you. I am telling you that i do not make refunds under my health guarentee for what u think is a underweight chameleon. I know for a fact being shipped overnight in a box stresses the animal so yes i would like you to wait . I sent you pictures the night before of the exact chams u got and u didnt say one thing about them being underweight.

Kolorburst Chameleons


Subject: Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From: kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, November 10, 2012 3:41 pm
To: sales@chamalotchameleons.com <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
Priority: Normal


And you would wait a week because they were closing their eyes but not to let them gain alittle weight. None of my chams look underweight.

Kolorburst Chameleons






Subject: Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From:sales@chamalotchameleons.com
Date:Sat, November 10, 2012 3:54 pm
To:"kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Priority:Normal


This is the photo you sent me of the very skinny girl. Please note how
out of focus it is. I did not say anything about her being under weight
because you can not see anything from the photo

Dessirae
Attachment
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/IMAG0650.jpg



From: "sales@chamalotchameleons.com" <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 3:49 pm


Notice the indented cheeks and lack of pads on her head . Also the
indented line on her legs that is typical of an under weight cham.

Second picture is how the other cham was all morning hanging upside down
asleep.

Attachments
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/2012-11-10female.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/2012-11-10Male.jpg



From:kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date:Sat, November 10, 2012 3:56 pm
To:sales@chamalotchameleons.com <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>


I see the slightly indented cheeks in the pic all i was saying is maybe she was being bullied out of food and needs time on her own to fatten up

Kolorburst Chameleons



From: sales@chamalotchameleons.com
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 4:16 pm


all I am saying is that I was not expecting the chameleons to be so thin.
Couple that with the fact they have been sleeping all day now and even
hanging from their back legs from a branch makes me think it is not a
bulling issue and a very real health problem.


Subject: Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From:kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date:Sat, November 10, 2012 5:51 pm
To:sales@chamalotchameleons.com

Well please stick it out with them for a few days if they dont recover i will be glad to refund ur money

Kolorburst Chameleons



So I waited a few days and the chameleons have not improved. I was also in contact with my vet during this time

I send another email to the seller Wednesday morning


Subject:Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From:sales@chamalotchameleons.com
Date:Wed, November 14, 2012 9:46 am
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>


Hello

I met with my vet, Dr Alfonso yesterday for another matter and showed him
the two chameleons. He agreed that the smaller female was dehydrated
and very malnourished as well as the other chameleon but not as advanced.
(and please feel free to contact him directly if you would like - his
info: http://www.kirkmanareavet.com/index.html)

The skinnier one has been going downhill since Saturday . She is less
and less active and I often find her hanging or slumped over a branch
asleep. I have included several photos of her so you can see how frail
she is.

The other chameleon is in less dire condition but has not really improved
since Saturday. He is still sleeping a lot during the day.

At think point I am not sure if the skinny one would (*this is a typo in the orignal message- it was ment to say wouldn't) survive the stress
being shipped back. The other (and I am positive it is a male now) would
fair a trip much better at least for now.

A 7 day health guarantee means that the animals are healthy in all the
sense of the word. Not your idea of healthy or my idea of healthy, but
healthy by definition which means an animal that is fit for sale at the
minimum. Skinny, dehydrated and malnourished animals do not fall under
"healthy" even if they arrive alive and do not die within 7 days.

I would still like a refund for these two animals. It is up to you if
you would like them shipped back or not.

Dessirae

I attached the photos already throughout this thread

I got no reply from the seller

Thursday afternoon I opened a dispute with paypal for a partial refund (minus the shipping) . The seller has escalated it to a claim so I know he is aware of ot but has not made any contact with me.


The chameleons arrived on Friday and tomorrow will be one week

[figg2112]

I did just email him the link asking him to feel free to ad to the thread

I would like nothing more than to get this resolved

[Varaki]

That looks severely under weight and it's a shame that the poor thing arrived in such condition. I saw one of his adds right before I clicked on this and he has in all caps the seven day guarantee but it for death only it seems. Hopefully something can be done or you both can come to an agreement, regardless the animal's came from him.

Here is the add:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=363407

How are the little ones doing right now though? Are they getting better?

[figg2112]

Yes he must have reposted his ad today

Here are pics from just now. I don't think the female will live much longer. I have seen her attempt to eat one time and her tongue was very sluggish

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/walkingdead.jpg

Male is in better shape but in no way 100% healthy.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z175/figg2112/boy.jpg

[Varaki]

She does indeed look very lethargic and rather weak. Has he contacted you back on anything you replied to him about. It's obvious he sent you two very weak and sick looking Cham. Are you wanting to get a refund for the female? Or a new one? Either way he should at least do something for the sick one that he sent you.

I myself am in my first year starting next year doing snake breeding, but I also do bird breeding, I know if they are weak, often times feeding a syringe or vitamins and food together can help, is it the same for the Chameleons?

[figg2112]

She does indeed look very lethargic and rather weak. Has he contacted you back on anything you replied to him about. It's obvious he sent you two very weak and sick looking Cham. Are you wanting to get a refund for the female? Or a new one? Either way he should at least do something for the sick one that he sent you.

I myself am in my first year starting next year doing snake breeding, but I also do bird breeding, I know if they are weak, often times feeding a syringe or vitamins and food together can help, is it the same for the Chameleons?


I believe they should both fall under the health guarantee for a refund. However it is obviously the female I am most concerned with. I do not want a replacement.

You can syringe feed chameleons but the problem is they get stressed out so easily. It is hard to do if they are small like these guys. Forcing the mouth open and causing stress may do more harm than good. I have tried to drip some critical care mixture (same kind used for birds) on the females nose to see if she would eat it but I don't think she did.


I have not heard anything more from the seller than what I have posted above.

[Varaki]

I believe they should both fall under the health guarantee for a refund. However it is obviously the female I am most concerned with. I do not want a replacement.

You can syringe feed chameleons but the problem is they get stressed out so easily. It is hard to do if they are small like these guys. Forcing the mouth open and causing stress may do more harm than good. I have tried to drip some critical care mixture (same kind used for birds) on the females nose to see if she would eat it but I don't think she did.


I have not heard anything more from the seller than what I have posted above.

You are correct in all honestly, both came with problems and not in a hundred percent health. Yes, she seems the worst off between the two. Hopefully we will hear what he has to say in regards to the two he sold you when its obvious they are not in good health.

I see, can it be placed in water or on the very edge of her mouth? I know some can be mixed in the water. I am hoping she survives though, I hate how some people don't care for the animals they raise.

He might be dodging the thread it seems or just doesn't want to post. Will you be able to get some money back from Paypal?

[SquamataMississauga]

Geez, that female is on deaths door.
I'm pretty certain if you did send it back it would die in transport to stress.
I'm shocked they arrived alive at all.

I agree with you as well, health guarantee does not mean "doesn't die" it means they should be in good shape when they arrive.

Good luck, hope that guy makes it right, but seeing as he shipped that girl I wouldn't bet on it :(

[figg2112]

You are correct in all honestly, both came with problems and not in a hundred percent health. Yes, she seems the worst off between the two. Hopefully we will hear what he has to say in regards to the two he sold you when its obvious they are not in good health.

I see, can it be placed in water or on the very edge of her mouth? I know some can be mixed in the water. I am hoping she survives though, I hate how some people don't care for the animals they raise.

He might be dodging the thread it seems or just doesn't want to post. Will you be able to get some money back from Paypal?

I got a notice from paypal that said the seller "submitted an explanation describing the disagreement with this claim."

He has told paypal:

My Guarantee only covers death of the animal within the 7 days. My guarantee does not cover anything else. I first received a email from Chamelot chameleons saying she wanted a refund because one of the chameleons looked underweight to her. She is trying to quote her own companies health guarantee and put it off as mine. Every breeder has their own policy and mine is to refund money in the case of a animal dieing within 7 days of receipt. This policy is this way because once the purchaser receives the animal i have no control of the care given to the animal.This is not just merchandise it is a live animal and i cannot just have live animal returns because a purchaser feels like a animal is underweight

Interesting to note that I contacted the seller in just under 24 hours saying they are in ill health.

[Varaki]

i cannot just have live animal returns because a purchaser feels like a animal is underweight


That is the problem right there. It isn't that you feel she is underweight, it is that she IS underweight and not only that, it is shown as clear as day that she is well underweight and not doing well at all. Its pretty bad when the seller only guarantee's death but not the health and quite honestly, I would never do business with someone who won't back up the health of the animal they are selling.

Seeing that, I doubt you will get anything back but I hope you do. If he was any decent person or at least caring of both his animal's and customers, he would do the right thing in this case.

[Lucille]

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Current Activity: Viewing Thread KolorBurst Cham - Joshua Coppens - Will not honor 7 day health guarantee

I have a feeling that this thread will affect his sales. Who wants to order from a company who sends chams that a buyer feels are ill, and then takes care of the issue by saying his 'health' guarantee is actually a 'death' guarantee?

At least future prospective customers will know what is in store for them if they buy from him.

[SquamataMississauga]

Who wants to order from a company who sends chams that a buyer feels are ill

This isn't really a 'feeling' thing.
The female is sickly, neglected and is most likely going to die over the next couple of days unless figg2112 can get a good amount of food/water into it without stressing it past the point of no return.

[Lucille]

Dessirae, perhaps you could send Paypal a link to this thread?

[figg2112]

Dessirae, perhaps you could send Paypal a link to this thread?

I did

[Varaki]

Would paypal actually look at this thread?

[markpulawski]

When anyone buys a CB animal it is a given that one would expect a healthy, feeding viable animal....unless there is a disclaimer, just hatched, not fed yet which usually comes with a big discount due the seller needing immediate cash.
If this is the quality, or lack thereof Kolorburst Chamelians is going to provide, thanks for the warning to everyone. No way that girl had fed recently, if at all. Sending out horrible quality animals, hopefully this thread will save somebody from making the mistake of buying from him.

[Lucille]

Would paypal actually look at this thread?

Whatever happens with the dispute, if the seller does not successfully handle this issue he will lose way more money than the cost of this cham from lost future sales.
At this point, maybe an apology and refund can save his rep. But playing word games with Paypal when the pictures clearly show the quality lizard he ships out is a huge error in protecting his name, in my opinion.

[Varaki]

Whatever happens with the dispute, if the seller does not successfully handle this issue he will lose way more money than the cost of this cham from lost future sales.
At this point, maybe an apology and refund can save his rep. But playing word games with Paypal when the pictures clearly show the quality lizard he ships out is a huge error in protecting his name, in my opinion.

True, after seeing the state the animal was in when arriving to the buyer, people will stop buying. Maybe save part of his rep, but I think some damage has already been done. You are right though on what you say.

[figg2112]

Whatever happens with the dispute, if the seller does not successfully handle this issue he will lose way more money than the cost of this cham from lost future sales.
At this point, maybe an apology and refund can save his rep. But playing word games with Paypal when the pictures clearly show the quality lizard he ships out is a huge error in protecting his name, in my opinion.

The dispute is still open... I don't have any new info on that.

I actually felt better buying from KolorBurst BECAUSE he offered a 7 day health guarantee. It was a false security...
I feel he should have to spell out his version of a health guarantee in his ads

[alfon76]

I have been Ms. Scarborough's Veterinarian for several years now and she is a top notch chameleon keeper. She sent me a few pics of the babies she purchased and I have to say that they look depressing. I am not going to speculate anything regarding the seller as I don't know him/her but all I can say is that a health guarantee involves a healthy animal by definition. Underweight, lethargic or anorexic animals do not fit in the healthy definition regardless of species. She is entitled to a full refund due to the poor condition of both chameleons, especially the female. I hope the seller manages to fix the issue because otherwise it is painfully clear he/she intends to sell unfit chameleons to anyone he/she feels like. Even if you don't know chameleons too well, you can tell that both animals are in poor shape.
To the seller, all I can say is that issues can happen when shipping chameleons, and any reptile for that matter, but the important factor here is how you as a breeder/seller respond to those issues. It is obvious that Ms. Scarborough contacted you right from the start regarding her unhappiness with the chameleons she got from you so you should step up to the plate and resolve the issue in a satisfactory way. I don't think you mean to outright scam her but it is looking that way by the lack of support on your part.

Ivan Alfonso, DVM

[SquamataMississauga]

To the seller, all I can say is that issues can happen when shipping chameleons, and any reptile for that matter, but the important factor here is how you as a breeder/seller respond to those issues

Not that I'm questioning you in anyway, but none of the condition that the animal is in is due to shipping.
A healthy animal will not look like that from shipping alone.
It was in that state prior to being shipped (which I'm shocked it didn't die in the first place), and it was shown although vaguely due to the picture quality that was shown that it appeared like that beforehand.

[alfon76]

Mr. MacLean, I have to agree with you. But in my professional and personal experience anything can, and will happen. Instead of assuming the seller purposely sent unfit animals to Ms. Scarborough on purpose, I rather take a more neutral approach and still leave it open for a possible shipping issue. It means nothing anyway as they arrived in bad shape so even if it was a shipping issue it falls on the seller. I have been in a similar situation when a 100% healthy animal I shipped arrived in horrible shape. I paid for the animal to be shipped back and refunded the buyer for the animal and the return shipping cost. I will never know why the 1 animal (out of 3) arrived in bad shape but at least I did what any good seller/breeder needs to do. My animal recovered fine and is doing great now with a new owner. In the case of Ms. Scarborough's chameleons, they are not in good health and need to be replaced or refunded based on the seller's 7 day health guarantee.

[ballpython584]

His current ad now states " seven day health guarantee against DEATH).

[5150cham]

Hi Dez,
I am with you on this. I was considering getting a couple chams from him. Now, after reading this, no way.....
Sorry you had to go through this.

[JColt]

And if they die in less than 7 days is it because she gets no refund because she didnt force feed them? Joshua you should be ashamed of yourself for even shipping those. Do the right thing or prepare for black listing.

[trd1215]

Thanks for the warning.

[rcarichter]

I have been in a similar situation when a 100% healthy animal I shipped arrived in horrible shape.

But I can't imagine any situation in which shipping could cause that much weight loss. There is no possible way that that animal looked 100% healthy 24 hours before the picture was taken. (Doesn't necessarily sound like you disagree with that, just adding my two cents).

If any animal in my care looked like that, the furthest thing from my mind would be to put my name on it and sell it. Inexcusable.

Noelle

[canzoman]

Being a former Chameleon breeder. I would never have shipped those out in that condition. And you cannot just change your policy on the fly now that its not actually dead. It was near death when arrived not under weight.

[figg2112]

When an ad states CHAMELEONS COME WITH LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEE AND 7 DAY HEALTH GUARANTEE!!!!!! and nothing more

It would be assumed that Health Guarantee would cover Health of the animal for 7 days. And if there was an issue, photos and maybe even a vet report could be provided to prof it was not 'all in the buyers head' as he seems to think my issue is.

KolorBurst chameleons has nowhere spelling out his "Health Guarantee" And did not Make it aware to me until the day after the chameleons arrived and I informed them of the health problems.

He can not point to his spelled out guarantee that was written and in place before the transaction and tell me 'look I clearly state in my health guarantee it only protects against death within 7 days and that you should have been well aware of this before purchasing.

I realize he has now changed his ad to states: CHAMELEONS COME WITH LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEE AND 7 DAY HEALTH GUARANTEE AGAINST DEATH!!!!!!


Ironically his Kolorburst Chameleons facebook page only states :

We specialize in captive breed Ambanja,Ambilobe,Nosy Be,Sambava and Hybrid breeds of Panther Chameleons .We take pride in the quality,health and outstanding colors our breeder Chameleons produce!

[Olimpia]

I think you are absolutely in the right, Dessirae, he didn't specify that his health guarantee meant anything other than what it states, a guarantee of health. Therefore, I think it is ridiculous of him to now pretend that it means anything other than that without having it explicitly expressed anywhere. The animals you have received are clearly not in health, and therefore you should be more than entitled to a refund.

At least we've been warned and anyone looking to buy a chameleon from them will know that they are dishonest and negligent in their care and customer service.

[Kristi23]

Those pictures are heartbreaking. The seller should be ashamed to have animals in that condition. I really hope this gets resolved, but that poor female looks horrible. I feel terrible for her.:(

[tommyhil4_6]

Feel terrible for those babies. Thank you for providing such concise info with your dispute Dez. You are absolutely entitled. There is no possible way those Chams were in a condition to ship. Even a novice would know they were not healthy.

Also agree that the picture of the female is quite blurry and does not show any potential health problems clearly.

Good luck on getting this resolved. This community is obviously standing behind you. Why I love the herper hobby so much!

[rottsko]

wow. i feel so bad for the animals that are under his care. support you 100% dez.

[sanguine_mercantile]

Those poor animals. The seller should be ashamed of himself.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

Fact 1. I told Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough that i realize the one chameleon is sick, it looked nowhere near as skinny when i shipped it. Fact 2. Out of over 100 Panther Chameleons ive never had a complaint or concern with the health of one ive sold. Fact number 3 is my policy has always been 7 days against death due to that i sell to many novice keepers and have no control of how they care for them. Fact 4 i told Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough that i would refund the money for the 1 sick female even though my guarantee is against death, I asked her to wait it out a week to see if she fattens up then i get a message from paypal trying to reverse the payment halfway through the week.Then 20 mins later a message from Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough saying she posted this thread slandering me, In the end i told her i would refund her money for the one she decided to act like a child and slander me on here and now will get nothing. I went as far as holding her shipment of the chams one more day so my hot packs could be delivered since the weather here in florida dropped in temp a few days before and i didnt want the chams to get cold. I emailed her before i shipped them to verify sex and she agreed to ship the 2 i sent.

[RichsBallPythons]

Fact 1. I told Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough that i realize the one chameleon is sick, it looked nowhere near as skinny when i shipped it. Fact 2. Out of over 100 Panther Chameleons ive never had a complaint or concern with the health of one ive sold. Fact number 3 is my policy has always been 7 days against death due to that i sell to many novice keepers and have no control of how they care for them. Fact 4 i told Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough that i would refund the money for the 1 sick female even though my guarantee is against death, I asked her to wait it out a week to see if she fattens up then i get a message from paypal trying to reverse the payment halfway through the week.Then 20 mins later a message from Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough saying she posted this thread slandering me, In the end i told her i would refund her money for the one she decided to act like a child and slander me on here and now will get nothing. I went as far as holding her shipment of the chams one more day so my hot packs could be delivered since the weather here in florida dropped in temp a few days before and i didnt want the chams to get cold. I emailed her before i shipped them to verify sex and she agreed to ship the 2 i sent.


Really!

You SHIPPED them that way, she didnt have them but few hours and noticed they were not right! Your guarantee means squat when you ship sick animals!

[Lucille]

now will get nothing.

Joshua, you are sickening, and a liar. The pictures she took say everything. I would not buy a lizard from you if it was the last lizard on earth.

Instead of manning up, you've spent the entire time trying to figure out how not to do the right thing and refund your buyer for those sad little lizards. Your word games with Paypal show what you really are, and I hope everyone who reads this thread will spread the word that you are not to be bought from.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

Blah Blah Blah. like i said 20 mins before i packaged them i sent her pictures there is absolutely nothing wrong with the one and yes the other one looks sickly and like i told her id refund her money for that one and she agreed to wait a week to see if she got better. She started a issue with paypal and on here hence will get nothing. I could give one care less if you buy a cham from me i have over 100 satisfied buyers it will not effect me one bit that i am being slandered over 1 sick chameleon

[redskinsdude]

Blah Blah Blah. like i said 20 mins before i packaged them i sent her pictures there is absolutely nothing wrong with the one and yes the other one looks sickly and like i told her id refund her money for that one and she agreed to wait a week to see if she got better. She started a issue with paypal and on here hence will get nothing. I could give one care less if you buy a cham from me i have over 100 satisfied buyers it will not effect me one bit that i am being slandered over 1 sick chameleon

Your concern should not be with the previous happy customers but based on your attitude in this post you can expect to have quite a few less future customers....

[Lucille]

Blah Blah Blah.

Potential buyers, that is the answer you will receive from this seller if something goes wrong.
Your buyer did not defame you, you agreed that the lizard was so sick that you are saying now, she deserved a refund.
Then, when she chose to come here and tell the truth, you decided to take back the promised refund. Why? Because she was never going to get the refund anyway in my opinion. You have struggled mightily to not have to do the right thing.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

Thats fine. I offered a refund on the sick chameleon see started this crap on here it has nothing to do with the 100 dollars i sold her the cham for it has to do with the way she handled it when we agreed that i would refund the money at the end of the week, i wanted to see if she would get well enough to ship back to me

[Lucille]

Your concern should not be with the previous happy customers but based on your attitude in this post you can expect to have quite a few less future customers....

I do not think there are any previous happy customers, judging by the look of the lizards this seller sent and his bad attitude and unwillingness to man up.
Happy customers are wishful thinking on his part.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

And my concern is not at all about random peoples opinions it is with facts.
\

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

Wow you people should prob get a life and stop making up crap because u have nothing better to do on your friday night

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

And i keep seeing by the look of the lizards it was one sick cham the other one is fine

[Lucille]

Such as this picture?

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

Yes she is def sick i havent denied that one time

[Lucille]

Yes she is def sick i havent denied that one time
And you refused a refund because your buyer came to tell the truth here.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

The truth about what? That the cham was sick and i told her to give her a lil time to try and fatten up to return her to me? Or the fact that she posted this on here without even speaking to me again about the issue>

[sanguine_mercantile]

And my concern is not at all about random peoples opinions it is with facts.
\

It should be concern you. Especially considering the power of Google. Go ahead and do a search on your name or the name KolorBurst Chameleons. Your rep is fast turning to garbage over the fact you sent out a cham that NEVER should have been shipped in the first place.

As you can see by a quick search; your name is associated with this thread now and will be for a very long time to come. There is and was no reason to ever send an animal out looking like that and for such you should be ashamed.

By all means, Joshua Coppens, ignore those complaints about sending your customer an obviously sick chameleon and let me know how that Google search works for you.

[Lucille]

The truth about what? That the cham was sick and i told her to give her a lil time to try and fatten up to return her to me? Or the fact that she posted this on here without even speaking to me again about the issue>

You sent lizards so sick that even the vet said something about how they looked. Your buyer is owed a refund NOW. If you want to pay her for fattening your lizards back up that is up to you.

[figg2112]

Fact 1. I told Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough that i realize the one chameleon is sick, it looked nowhere near as skinny when i shipped it.
Fact 2. Out of over 100 Panther Chameleons ive never had a complaint or concern with the health of one ive sold.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you did not realize the female was in such bad condition when you shipped her.. Thats why of you read my email I say 'I understand that if you are new to raising baby chams it may be easy to miss signs it may not be 100% healthy

Fact number 3 is my policy has always been 7 days against death due to that i sell to many novice keepers and have no control of how they care for them.

I contacted you 25 hours after arrival. This issue has nothing to do with me being a novice keeper.


Fact 4 i told Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough that i would refund the money for the 1 sick female even though my guarantee is against death, I asked her to wait it out a week to see if she fattens up then i get a message from paypal trying to reverse the payment halfway through the week.

I wrote you on Wednesday morning with an update knowing full well that your 'guarantee' would expire on Thursday. ( Friday to Thursday = 7 days) When you did not respond I filed the claim with paypal ON THURSDAY AFTERNOON to get your attention. How do I know you where just not waiting till after Thursday to respond to tell me sorry too late?

Then 20 mins later a message from Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough saying she posted this thread slandering me,

Nothing I wrote on this thread is untrue. I posted your own words.


In the end i told her i would refund her money for the one she decided to act like a child and slander me on here and now will get nothing.

I have been willing to negotiate with you. I have been very civil and calm through out this whole ordeal.


I went as far as holding her shipment of the chams one more day so my hot packs could be delivered since the weather here in florida dropped in temp a few days before and i didnt want the chams to get cold. [QUOTE=KolorBurst Chameleons;1541264]

I know nothing about you waiting for heat packs. I had asked the chams to be shipped Tuesday for Wednesday originally but suddenly had to work so moved the ship date to a Friday arrival.

[QUOTE=KolorBurst Chameleons;1541264]I emailed her before i shipped them to verify sex and she agreed to ship the 2 i sent.

We have already discussed how the photo of the female was too blury to tell what condition she was in. I had no reason to think she would be anything less than healthy so there was no reason to request a clearer photo.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

Get the story straight im sorry that i have a full time job and couldnt jump on fauna soon enough for you random people to defend myself or give my side of the story. Ive explained exactly what happened and now will go on with my life feel free to keep up wasting your time talking crap about me, I know my animals are healthy and wont let one sick chameleon which i tried to make right affect me

[Lucille]

Over one thousand six hundred views so far, of this thread detailing the sick chams and poor customer service of this seller.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

And like i said i would refund the money for the 1 sick chameleon, Not at all concerned with google searches or that i shipped a chameleon that a "expert" chameleon breeder approved on

[Willow]

I love watching someone dig themselves into a huge hole

amazing how simple it is to fix situations like this and come out looking like an awesome Seller to work with, and yet....THIS attitude is what he chooses to go with instead =)

There are so many great breeders and sellers out there to choose from, very easy to get crossed right off that list when you act like this.

[figg2112]

The truth about what? That the cham was sick and i told her to give her a lil time to try and fatten up to return her to me? Or the fact that she posted this on here without even speaking to me again about the issue>

Again, I wrote you on Wednesday morning with an update knowing full well that your 'guarantee' would expire on Thursday. ( Friday to Thursday = 7 days) When you did not respond I filed the claim with paypal ON THURSDAY AFTERNOON to get your attention. How do I know you where just not waiting till after Thursday to respond to tell me sorry too late?

[figg2112]

The truth about what? That the cham was sick and i told her to give her a lil time to try and fatten up to return her to me? Or the fact that she posted this on here without even speaking to me again about the issue>

And also if you remember

From: "sales@chamalotchameleons.com" <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 3:32 pm

Since I know you think you are right..how about I post an inquiry on fauna BOA and let the community tell me what they think should be done.





Subject:Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From:kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date:Sat, November 10, 2012 3:39 pm
To:sales@chamalotchameleons.com <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
Priority: Normal


You can post whatever you want on fauna that is up to you.

[sanguine_mercantile]

And like i said i would refund the money for the 1 sick chameleon, Not at all concerned with google searches or that i shipped a chameleon that a "expert" chameleon breeder approved on

Are you so sure Mr. Joshua Aaron Coppens. As it stands this thread is getting quite the traffic. It is easier to just fix the mistake as opposed to trying to come off as an E-tough guy. It is better karma for you and great for your customer service.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

Yes people can post whatever opinion they want on the internet. This thread or google will not affect my hobby one bit

[Varaki]

They all have point's, honestly that Cham should have never have been sent but a healthy one instead. So yes she is owed a refund. And she has every right to come to this forum and post because this is what the BOI is intended for. For buyers and sellers to give feedback on good reputable people and those who are not. Right now its becoming easy to see which one you are falling under. A refund might save a little bit of your reputation, but the way you are treating this, its going to be hard.

Selling animal's your animals should be 100% healthy, you obviously didn't give her one and in return, she has to spend time taking extra care of it to bring it back up to good health and she took it to the vets. It's lucky she didn't bring up a good amount of vet bills. I am hoping it lives but this should have never been a problem to begin with, that sick animal should have never been sold and sent in the mail. I think to everyone, it is obvious a refund should be given back for the female.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

And again i own many businesses and dont check my Chameleon email everyday of the week

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

She sent the vet a pick didnt bring it anywhere and yea she is lucky she didnt run up a vet bill since she is responsible for it

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

All of you people giving your opinions are doing nothing to fix the situation and your not trying to your just trying to be nosy and find a way to fill your time this evening with arguing with me

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

And ive said 100 times already i would refund the money for the sick one, ive said that from day one

[Lucille]

And ive said 100 times already i would refund the money for the sick one, ive said that from day one

i told her id refund her money for that one and she agreed to wait a week to see if she got better. She started a issue with paypal and on here hence will get nothing.


Refund her right now, since you seem to flip flop quite a bit.

[figg2112]

Refund me for the female. I would like nothing more to get this resolved.

We both agree she is and has been in poor health

We can then close the paypal dispute and move on

[Olimpia]

We're not nosy people, we're being asked to weigh in on the legitimacy of Dez's claim, and we overwhelmingly agree that you are trying to wiggle out of refunding her what she is rightfully due. If she didn't have a case we would be more than willing to lean in your favor but this isn't what's going on.

As per an earlier comment:
From: "sales@chamalotchameleons.com" <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
To: "kolorburstchams@yahoo.com" <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ambilobe from fauna
Date: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 3:32 pm

Since I know you think you are right..how about I post an inquiry on fauna BOA and let the community tell me what they think should be done.





Subject:Re: Ambilobe from fauna
From:kolorburstchams@yahoo.com <kolorburstchams@yahoo.com>
Date:Sat, November 10, 2012 3:39 pm
To:sales@chamalotchameleons.com <sales@chamalotchameleons.com>
Priority: Normal


You can post whatever you want on fauna that is up to you.

She gave you a warning on SATURDAY, the 10th of November, about starting a BOI thread - 2 days later. To which you gave her the go-ahead.

She didn't start this thread for a WEEK after the end of your 7 day guarantee, on the 15th of December.

She has given you PLENTY of time to step up and give her the refund. You had a week where she didn't start a BOI thread and hadn't stirred anything up where she should have gotten the refund she was promised. This wasn't a surprise. So to say that she doesn't get it now because she started this thread is petty and ridiculous. You had an extra WEEK to sort this out.

[Olimpia]

Shoot, nevermind. Ignore most of my second message, I misread the dates at the beginning of the sale. I read the 2nd by accident and not the 8th. I apologize for that.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

I didn't flip about anything, ive told her since day one i believed the one was sick and i would refund her money i just wanted to see if she would pull through to ship her back to me so i could try and bring her back to health but from the pics she is beyond where she would survive the trip. I do take responsibility that she was sick after she received her. I would never intentionally send a sick animal to someone and should have looked her over better before i shipped her. My chams are feed very well with well feed gutloaded feeders. I would never intentionally send a unhealthy animal. My policy is not in place so i don't have to take responsibility for the health of my animals but to prevent unnecessary returns of animals that became sick due to the buyers inexperience. I cant have these animals flying back and forth across the country. I understand when it comes to this one female that is not the case, something is wrong with her but it is not due to mine or the buyers neglect. Sometimes animals just get sick.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

And i have no idea how to refund a partial payment or even make a note on the paypal claim or it would already be done

[Lucille]

Make the refund now, and then your buyer can close the dispute.

[canzoman]

And i have no idea how to refund a partial payment or even make a note on the paypal claim or it would already be done

If you just send her Paypal with her address for refund amount she should then be able to cancel the dispute. So like your sending her a payment.

[Timathy]

At this point in the game, you should refund her for both animals and call it even!

[Lucille]

At this point in the game, you should refund her for both animals and call it even!

No. Everyone has agreed to and is comfortable with the refund for one.

[Lucille]

Joshua it takes one minute to send a payment. I've just watched an entire episode of the Waltons and it isn't done yet. You said you would do it now come on.

[chadharper]

Yes people can post whatever opinion they want on the internet. This thread or google will not affect my hobby one bit

:shootfoot

:NoNo:

[Varaki]

:iagree:

That reputation keeps sinking.

[Fangthane]

I do take responsibility that she was sick after she received her. I would never intentionally send a sick animal to someone and should have looked her over better before i shipped her.
Way to try to slime your way out of any blame. So the cham was only sick "after she received her"? It's much more likely that it was sick before, during, and after shipping. Unless your eyes are as conveniently out of focus as your camera was, there's basically no chance that you didn't notice that the poor thing was in horrible shape, before you shipped it. Which means that, yes, you very likely did knowingly ship a sick animal.
My chams are feed very well with well feed gutloaded feeders. I would never intentionally send a unhealthy animal. My policy is not in place so i don't have to take responsibility for the health of my animals but to prevent unnecessary returns of animals that became sick due to the buyers inexperience.
Actually, avoiding responsibility is exactly what you're doing. Not only did you send her a sick animal, but I've just stumbled across a post on another forum where you openly admit to sickness in your young chameleons.
Refund me for the female. I would like nothing more to get this resolved.

We both agree she is and has been in poor health

We can then close the paypal dispute and move on

Assuming that THIS (http://www.whosarrested.com/florida/lee-county/fort-myers/lcdc/433702-joshua-aaron-coppens) is the same Joshua Coppens, it'd appear that his criminal impulses haven't diminished one bit. He's still willing to use any means necessary to come out on top.

In the very likely event that he doesn't choose to willingly issue a refund, I'd make the following link available to the PayPal resolution team. As well as the posts in this thread where he acknowledged that a refund was deserved, but stated that it wouldn't be made due to this thread being posted about him. It may mean something to them. It certainly looks like he knew he was selling potentially sick animals, and was simply trying to dump them on unsuspecting customers.

http://www.chameleonforums.com/baby-chams-dieing-96359/

[Fangthane]

To hopefully avoid being dinged for an anonymous 3rd party quotation, here's a screenshot of the profile to show the poster's name:

[Bells]

Wow thank you Dessirae Scarborough for posting this thread, I was going to purchase a couple of chams from this guy.. Now I'm not.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

ive tried to refund the money for one its not letting me so please one of you paypal experts tell me how to do it please. As far as that dead Cham link from chameleon forums that is from another clutch and all my chams are feed and took care of exactly as they should be i was just having deaths in that clutch how that is "Criminal" for asking for advice and help is beyond my comprehension. U never once said ALL OF A SUDDEN after she received the cham it got sick it was obviously sick before she received it. Why in the hell would i purposely send a sick chameleon to a breeder with obvious knowledge on that species of chameleon? If i was trying to "Scam" or defraud someone why would i do that to someone with obvious knowledge on the animal it would make sense to send that animal to some novice with no knowledge on the animal.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

[QUOTE=KolorBurst Chameleons;1541424]ive tried to refund the money for one its not letting me so please one of you paypal experts tell me how to do it please. As far as that dead Cham link from chameleon forums that is from another clutch and all my chams are feed and took care of exactly as they should be i was just having deaths in that clutch how that is "Criminal" for asking for advice and help is beyond my comprehension. I never once said ALL OF A SUDDEN after she received the cham it got sick it was obviously sick before she received it. Why in the hell would i purposely send a sick chameleon to a breeder with obvious knowledge on that species of chameleon? If i was trying to "Scam" or defraud someone why would i do that to someone with obvious knowledge on the animal it would make sense to send that animal to some novice with no knowledge on the animal

[Darky]

Dessirae,

If I was you, I wouldn't even bother calling paypal... I would call your credit card company and request them to "charge back" paypal for the fraud. This will cut through all of paypal's BS, it won't matter what the seller does, you will get your money back!


Cheers,

Rob

[figg2112]

How are you trying to send the refund? Are you going to the original transaction? Since the transaction is 'under dispute' It may not let you modify that particular one. However paypal advises not to close the claim until the claim is satisfied

Are you able to just 'send money' as if you where buying or send money as a "gift"

[Darky]

How are you trying to send the refund? Are you going to the original transaction? Since the transaction is 'under dispute' It may not let you modify that particular one. However paypal advises not to close the claim until the claim is satisfied

Are you able to just 'send money' as if you where buying or send money as a "gift"

If the claim/dispute is canceled or closed before paypal does it themselves, the seller will be off the hook... His account will be frozen until the dispute is resolved, thus he should not be able to utilize Paypal at all.

Disputes typically take 3-4 days to resolve, however, I've had some take 7-10 days (depending on the timeliness of the parties).

Unless you have cash in hand, I would most def. wait for paypal to resolve the dispute, if they settle for the seller, you can always charge-back as stated above.

Hopefully some of this information helps people reading this thread!

Cheers,

Rob

[figg2112]

Joshua has agreed to send me a refund for the female.

We are currently in the process of resolving this through paypal.. I have emailed paypal for assistance.. don't know how quick they are.

[leothecham]

Great thread thanks chamelot chameleons for the info. People like this should not be breeders or part of the hobby.im staying away from this seller for good!

[Darky]

Great thread thanks chamelot chameleons for the info. People like this should not be breeders or part of the hobby.im staying away from this seller for good!

I see no reason whatsoever to keep bashing this seller if he is going to make things right! It takes a stand-up person to admit fault and fix it!

OP: Please keep us posted on follow-through!

Cheers,

Rob

[Kingofspades]

Fact 1. I told Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough that i realize the one chameleon is sick, it looked nowhere near as skinny when i shipped it. Fact 2. Out of over 100 Panther Chameleons ive never had a complaint or concern with the health of one ive sold. Fact number 3 is my policy has always been 7 days against death due to that i sell to many novice keepers and have no control of how they care for them. Fact 4 i told Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough that i would refund the money for the 1 sick female even though my guarantee is against death, I asked her to wait it out a week to see if she fattens up then i get a message from paypal trying to reverse the payment halfway through the week.Then 20 mins later a message from Dessirae (Dez) Scarborough saying she posted this thread slandering me, In the end i told her i would refund her money for the one she decided to act like a child and slander me on here and now will get nothing. I went as far as holding her shipment of the chams one more day so my hot packs could be delivered since the weather here in florida dropped in temp a few days before and i didnt want the chams to get cold. I emailed her before i shipped them to verify sex and she agreed to ship the 2 i sent.

I don't think a lot of people on this board who attempt to defend themselves understand the definition of the word "Slander."
It would be slander if she came here and said all your chameleons are sickly and dying, and that you are a terrible chameleon breeder etc (and for the record, I am NOT saying that, I am making examples.)
Coming on here and telling us of things you are doing or have done is NOT slander. It is what happened.

[Lucille]

ive tried to refund the money for one its not letting me so please one of you paypal experts tell me how to do it please.

I call bs. It is not difficult and there are tons of tutorials on the internet. This was just another sad excuse to try not to pay your buyer what you promised you would. You sent sick chams, your word is meaningless. Why would anyone do business with you?

[hhmoore]

It would be slander if she came here and said all your chameleons are sickly and dying, and that you are a terrible chameleon breeder etc
No...it would be libel. But only if the statements are false (because a statement like that is most certainly malicious). Of course, if the statements are true, then it wouldn't be libel...

[hhmoore]

(at least the definitions/explanations I've read over the years have all referenced falsity as a condition of both libel and slander)

To send the refund via PayPal - go to PayPal, log in, find the payment, click on the transaction, scroll down, click on Refund.

[KolorBurst Chameleons]

I already sent the refund we agreed on

[figg2112]

Joshua Coppens has completed the refund for the female chameleon and has satisfied the dispute.

Our paypal case is now closed.


Joshua was cooperative with me through email last night trying to send me a refund but having a paypal glitch - and it seemed to be true.

I sent paypal and email last night telling them we had decided on a refund price and the sellers funds where frozen . This morning Paypal has completed dispute and the asked amount has been refunded.

Joshua also emailed me to tell me he talked to paypal this morning with the same outcome.

Anyway it is all over.

I hope this is a lesson learned in customer service. I would think this whole experience is something he would not want to go through again.

[Lucille]

I'm glad it is done and that he did refund you.

[figg2112]

Thank you fauna for your support

Thank you Joshua for doing the right thing

[tommyhil4_6]

Glad it has come to a conclusion. Nice to see a dispute do so with both parties agreeing!

[sanguine_mercantile]

Good job on making this right Mr. Joshua Aaron Coppens.

[LauraB]

While I (and others who wish to publicly acknowlege it) am happy that Joshua refunded Dez, it does not make it totally right, IMO. He only did so under pressure ... and going so far as to retracting the refund because she posted here.

He still sold at least one cham in horrendous and unacceptable condition.

As a cham keeper and breeder, he surely has to know a baby does not go from healthy to emaciated and close to death overnight or due to overnight shipping stress.

He surely must know that a bullied cham, his reasoning for her very poor condition, must be separated from its siblings and tendened to appropriately. Any seasoned cham keeper/breeder knows that.

Any keeper/breeder of any animal knows the runt, the smallest needs segregation, extra care and extra attention. He did admit she was the smallest and bullied.

He surely has to know that a healthy cham, whether baby or juvenile or adult does not sleep (upside down or rightside up up) during the day.

If he honestly did not realize she was in that terrible condition, then he is not paying proper attention to his animals, IMO, and guilty of neglect.

If he did realize it and simply sold her off before he she died in his care and he suffered a monetary loss, then he's still guilty of both misrepresentation and attempting to scam a trusting customer.

Finally, he did, after all, change his TOS/health guarantee during the course of this thread to cover his own butt when he misrepresents and sells an unhealthy cham down the road, didn't he?

IMO, it's not just about customer service, but also about husbandry practices and proper care & attention given to the animals in the keepers care. Buyer take note.

[LauraB]

crap .. didn't spiel chekk ...

"tendened" = tended

[chazzz]

Congratulations you were refunded and you seem to be happy with the outcome or as happy as you can be considering the circumstance. I hope the chameleon pulls through! Now since you were refunded the cost of the sick chameleon are you now supposed to ship it back? Or were you refunded the cost and now the sick chameleon is still yours to nurse back to health hopefully?

Since things are resolved and the buyer is happy with the resolution I don't really want to add anymore negativity to this thread, but I do have one last question.
I wasn't going to get involved and thought someone else would bring this up much earlier on but I haven't seen it mentioned unless I missed it. You purchased two females and received 1 sickly female that you have been compensated for, and the other female while still not in great shape turned out to be a male. Has anything been done about this or is anything going to be done about this?

Most importantly the buyer is happy with the resolution, but even more so I hope that the chameleon makes a comeback from it's current condition! I wish you the best of luck with that chameleon!!

[figg2112]

While I (and others who wish to publicly acknowlege it) am happy that Joshua refunded Dez, it does not make it totally right, IMO. He only did so under pressure ... and going so far as to retracting the refund because she posted here.

He still sold at least one cham in horrendous and unacceptable condition.

As a cham keeper and breeder, he surely has to know a baby does not go from healthy to emaciated and close to death overnight or due to overnight shipping stress.

He surely must know that a bullied cham, his reasoning for her very poor condition, must be separated from its siblings and tendened to appropriately. Any seasoned cham keeper/breeder knows that.

Any keeper/breeder of any animal knows the runt, the smallest needs segregation, extra care and extra attention. He did admit she was the smallest and bullied.

He surely has to know that a healthy cham, whether baby or juvenile or adult does not sleep (upside down or rightside up up) during the day.

If he honestly did not realize she was in that terrible condition, then he is not paying proper attention to his animals, IMO, and guilty of neglect.

If he did realize it and simply sold her off before he she died in his care and he suffered a monetary loss, then he's still guilty of both misrepresentation and attempting to scam a trusting customer.

Finally, he did, after all, change his TOS/health guarantee during the course of this thread to cover his own butt when he misrepresents and sells an unhealthy cham down the road, didn't he?

IMO, it's not just about customer service, but also about husbandry practices and proper care & attention given to the animals in the keepers care. Buyer take note.

I do agree with everything you have said here Laura. I believe that anyone who reads this thread will probably come to the same concision.

Congratulations you were refunded and you seem to be happy with the outcome or as happy as you can be considering the circumstance. I hope the chameleon pulls through! Now since you were refunded the cost of the sick chameleon are you now supposed to ship it back? Or were you refunded the cost and now the sick chameleon is still yours to nurse back to health hopefully?

Since things are resolved and the buyer is happy with the resolution I don't really want to add anymore negativity to this thread, but I do have one last question.
I wasn't going to get involved and thought someone else would bring this up much earlier on but I haven't seen it mentioned unless I missed it. You purchased two females and received 1 sickly female that you have been compensated for, and the other female while still not in great shape turned out to be a male. Has anything been done about this or is anything going to be done about this?

Most importantly the buyer is happy with the resolution, but even more so I hope that the chameleon makes a comeback from it's current condition! I wish you the best of luck with that chameleon!!


I would not say I am 'happy' with everything, but can let it go. All the drama was giving me a headache and I just wanted it to be over. .. I was willing to negotiate as I felt it would be dragged out even more needlessly. I really expected not to get anything at all.

The chameleons are not being shipped back. I am trying to work with the little female and she is still hanging on. She seems to have a little spirit in her at times.. but I am not sure if it is enough to pull through as she is in such poor condition, but lets hope.

Baby chams are hard to sex sometimes. So I understand a mistake can happen. My hope with him , since he is also not going back, is that I can get him to grow and be strong over the next few months. And who knows he might grow up looking awesome.

I like to be optimistic. and just glad it is over

[Paul Kent]

I do agree with everything you have said here Laura. I believe that anyone who reads this thread will probably come to the same concision.




I would not say I am 'happy' with everything, but can let it go. All the drama was giving me a headache and I just wanted it to be over. .. I was willing to negotiate as I felt it would be dragged out even more needlessly. I really expected not to get anything at all.

The chameleons are not being shipped back. I am trying to work with the little female and she is still hanging on. She seems to have a little spirit in her at times.. but I am not sure if it is enough to pull through as she is in such poor condition, but lets hope.

Baby chams are hard to sex sometimes. So I understand a mistake can happen. My hope with him , since he is also not going back, is that I can get him to grow and be strong over the next few months. And who knows he might grow up looking awesome.

I like to be optimistic. and just glad it is over

:thumbsup:

[chazzz]

I do agree with everything you have said here Laura. I believe that anyone who reads this thread will probably come to the same concision.




I would not say I am 'happy' with everything, but can let it go. All the drama was giving me a headache and I just wanted it to be over. .. I was willing to negotiate as I felt it would be dragged out even more needlessly. I really expected not to get anything at all.

The chameleons are not being shipped back. I am trying to work with the little female and she is still hanging on. She seems to have a little spirit in her at times.. but I am not sure if it is enough to pull through as she is in such poor condition, but lets hope.

Baby chams are hard to sex sometimes. So I understand a mistake can happen. My hope with him , since he is also not going back, is that I can get him to grow and be strong over the next few months. And who knows he might grow up looking awesome.

I like to be optimistic. and just glad it is over

Thank you for answering my questions, and I wish you the best with nursing that female back to health!! I bet you're glad it's over, I'm glad it's over for you!

Also sorry about using the word happy it felt strange when I wrote it that's why I said "as happy as you can be considering the circumstance."
I should have said satisfied with the outcome because there's no way you could possibly be happy receiving a chameleon in that condition regardless of a refund and the headache that came with it. Happy would have been you received what you expected to receive, 2 healthy female chameleons!

Again I really hope she pulls through for you!!

[chelms865]

Not sure if this post is still being read, but I purchased a cham through Kolorburst Chams. I paid extra for a male. I just recently found out he was a she. Furiated, I have tried to get in touch with Josh from Kolorburst Chams and no reply at all. I have tried email and cell. This guy is bad news. My wife and I are considering legal action. I know it seems harsh, but how many people has he screwed over. This may be worth proving a point.