Has anyone dealt with Cameron or Ashley Glucheff [Archive]

CGluhcheff

04-25-2004, 01:59 PM

Since you are posting things about us, we decided to post all of the emails between you and my mother.

The first one Scott has already posted, so I'll start with the second.

Miss Ashley,

Number one, he had me mail the snake to a friend, who called me and informed me that the snake was fine and doing great. I am not responsible for what happened after that point, and you are now going to be reported to the Board of inquiry for your actions. Number two, your son and another gentleman named Bruce both purchased the snake, and I am not going to return any money based on the incident. I have proof that the snake was alive and well upon delivery, and I cannot help it if your son purchase something underage, or without your permission. Perhaps you had better keep better tabs on what your son is doing. If you would like to take this to court, I would be more than happy to oblige.

Sincerely,

Scott J. Cotey

Third:
I just attempted to call you, but received your answering machine. And I have decided that I will not discuss this case with you any further. I have acted in a responsible and professional manner, and the fact that your son is under age, doesn't matter. He represented himself as a business, and I have proof that Anthony Vasquez received the snake Tuesday, April @0th, and it was alive and well. So, your beef is with whatever happened after Anthony received the animal. Also, I would discuss proper business dealings with your son. To say that he is under age is no excuse, what if he went into a pet store and bought the animal, there are no laws concerning age that prohibit that purchase. So, I will not be dealing with you on this matter any further. If you would like to take it up in court, I will be more than happy to. One more thing, I am very upset that the snake is dead, because it was a very healthy, beautiful animal, so I am assuming that sometime between Tuesday and Sunday, someone abused the animal. And if that is the case, then shame on you people for your actions.

Sincerely,
Scott J. Cotey

Fourth:
Scott,
Pet store and reputable dealers give a 7 day warranty on snakes and other animals ( I can prove this in court). I feel that the snake was sick when you set it to him. I am not sure what the Board of Inquiry means but I am forwarding a formal complaint to the State Attorney General Office in both states. You can look forward to hearing from me because I will not drop this. As a teacher I am off during the summer and will make sure that this is taken to court. My father who just happens to he a retired Deputy District Attorney for San Bernardino County had offered to assist me in the matter. If you think I am bluffing about this you are more than welcome to call the DA office and verify this. I do have not problem taking you to court and I feel that you took advantage of him because of his age. I know that a minor cannot enter into such a purchase and I am confident I will win. Coming to your state is not a problem I will make sure that all appropriate court and legal papers are done. This is not a money issue but a principal issue.
Ashley

Fifth:
Mrs. Glucheff,

Your son Cameron and another gentleman by the name of Bruce, both represented themselves as a business, named Coast to Coast reptiles. My attorney has informed me that it doesn't matter that he was under age, he falsely represented himself as a legitimate business.

Thank you,
Scott

Sixth:
Mrs. Glucheff,

Attached please find the instructions from Cameron at Coast to Coast Reptiles, indicating the shipping address to Anthony Vasquez. I have all of my documentation on this and I look forward to seeing you in court.

Thank you,

Hey,
Alright I have the address for the person who will be recieving him. The address is:
Anthony Vasquez
346 N. Puente Ave.
West Covina, CA. 91790
His cell phone number is 626-641-5784. Just call him if you have any other questions. You can send him out this Wednesday or any time next week if you can. Thank you.
Cameron

seventh:
Scott,
Please forward me the name and address of your attorney. I will make sure that the proper documents are sent to him. I also feel that this is a scam and that you are the one that is the scam artist.
When you talk to your attorney make sure that he verifies that the Law in California and in most other states that there is a seven day guarantee of life on all purchased animals. This will hold up in court and I guess I will see you this summer in court. We have already planned a road trip and this will just be more more one stop on our 6 week vacation.

Ashley Gluhcheff

Cameron stated that he has all of the emails that he sent you.

eight:
Mrs. Glucheff,

Your son Cameron and another gentleman by the name of Bruce, both represented
themselves as a business, named Coast to Coast reptiles. My attorney has
informed me that it doesn't matter that he was under age, he falsely represented
himself as a legitimate business.

Thank you,
Scott

Ninth:
Mrs. Glucheff,

I await to hear from your attorney. thank you.

Scott J. Cotey

Tenth:
Scott,
I never represented myself as having an attorney. My father is an attorney and is going to help me with this as a family member. I need your attorney's info. I am requesting or was that just another "scam" . You are the only person who stated that they have hired an attorney.
Since we are posting this trasnaction on the website for snakes I have given Cameron my pemission to post all of our responses.
Ashley

So far, he has not responded so we do not know the name of his attorney. The only reason I posted this was because Scott decided we were going to. Here are all of the facts and not just what Scott says.

dwedeking

04-25-2004, 02:00 PM

Scott,

In a correct world you did nothing wrong. It's a shame that the parents do not have enough responsibility to take care of their kids mistakes (I know as a kid my parents would have given you back the snake and I'd be figuring out how to handle my lost money, as I'd be the one in trouble for buying the snake not you for selling it especially at 15 (along with trying to figure out why my bottom hurt so much :D )).

In reality there is a hassle created that your lawyer will need to take care of for you (which, in my opinion, is the smartest way to handle it as that email from the mother looked toooooo "professional" to me). Thank you for the heads up on this group.

Scooter J

04-25-2004, 02:16 PM

I did respond to their request for my attorneys information, and I told them that I had spoken to my attorney, and that when I recieve all of their information on the lawsuit, then I will retain my attorney's assistance. Until then, I am not going to get involved, and let the lawyers settle the case.

Thank you,

Scott J. Cotey

David Reid

04-25-2004, 02:23 PM

that parents put the blame on EVERYONE else, and take no responsibility for THEIR kid's actions. Why was the snake in question not sent to the kids house? Maybe, just maybe, because he bought the snake after his parents said no, you cannot buy it. That is a problem between the mother and the son, ground his butt. Take the money out of his allowance or something. As for you being a teacher......:(

David

Temecula, CA

JJFOUTZ

04-25-2004, 02:28 PM

Sounds like she needs to TEACH her son a thing or two. It is funny that she didn't have a problem with any of it and she wasn't herd from till the snake in question died.

JJFOUTZ

04-25-2004, 02:33 PM

Did they offer or supply ANY proof that the snake is actually dead? Pics or anything at all?

MarcAntony

04-25-2004, 02:37 PM

If this person is allowed to teach children, it might explain a few things about why our society is headed in the direction it is. If one of my sons had pulled this type of deal, I would be taking issue with my son, not the innocent seller who was duped. Lady, start to teach your kid more responsibility instead of trying to make excuses for him. Next he will be offering non-existent albino retics on reptibid, and you will still be making excuses for him. Parents like you make me sick.

Just sign me, "Sick & Disgusted"

DThomas

04-25-2004, 02:57 PM

Thia\s is so typical of parents nowadays. Blame everyone but "my innocent can not do anything wrong perfect angel."

Ashley, here is what YOUR son did wrong.

1. Falsely/fraudulently mis-represented himself as a legitimate business. HE did this because he knew he could not purchase a snake legitimately as a minor.

2. He went behind your back to purchase this snake then further hid his actions by having the snake shipped to his friend's house.

A good start would be for you to teach your son the meaning of the word integrity.

I would suggest you go speak with your father again about culpable mental states. Scott did not knowingly sell to a minor. He only did so because YOUR son LIED about being a legitimate business, lending to the assumption he was of age.

If you have photo's of the dead snake, why wait until tonight to email them. You can attach them right here in this thread for everyone to see. Instead of alot of hot air, lets see some hard proof.

And start supervising your son, he is obviously not mature enough to behave on his own.

CGluhcheff

04-25-2004, 02:59 PM

You're right, this snake isn't dead at all. Look at this pic. By the way, I have frozen the body just in case.

DThomas

04-25-2004, 03:04 PM

What day did the snake die?
And how was "Anthony" keeping?
What type of enclosure?
What temps was he keeping it at?
Did it have fresh water?
Did he try to feed it?
If so, what and did it eat?

You need to provide this type of information.

DThomas

04-25-2004, 03:09 PM

A couple more..

Was the snake taken to a vet for a check up upon arrival?
If not, why not?
Did you have a necropsy done to find out the cause of death?
Again, if not, why not?

A necropsy could have proven you received the snake sick but a little late now since it is frozen if it hasn't been done.

CGluhcheff

04-25-2004, 03:14 PM

Also, I saved all of the emails between Scott and I. Not once did I mention I was a business in ANY of them. If he jumped to the conclusion of me being a business, thats his own fault. If I were you, next time I would ask for a proof of age. AND, this is not about purchasing without consent or anything like that, this is about a DEAD SNAKE. I don't know why it went from, "the snake died" to "shame on you for buying it". The simple fact of the matter is that we purchased a snake and it died.

As to why the snake went to Anthony, was not because I was hiding it, but because I would be at school and wanted somebody I knew and that had knowledge of snakes to recieve him.

CGluhcheff

04-25-2004, 03:20 PM

The only problem with me taking him for a necropsy, is that the snake died before I was able to. As my mom stated, he died before I recieved him. I trust Anthony 100% with my snakes and would still let him care for any of them while I was away.

DThomas

04-25-2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by CGluhcheff
Also, I saved all of the emails between Scott and I. Not once did I mention I was a business in ANY of them.

Then post them.

Originally posted by CGluhcheff
If I were you, next time I would ask for a proof of age.

Next time, you should have your mother make the purchases for you. You shouldn't be buying animals, PERIOD.

Originally posted by CGluhcheff
AND, this is not about purchasing without consent or anything like that,

Actually, it is part of it. It was your mother that is trying that angle to get money back.

Originally posted by CGluhcheff
I don't know why it went from, "the snake died" to "shame on you for buying it".

Because you LIED to purchase the snake. Why should we just take your word for it the snake just up and died? Many factors could have led to the snake's death while in the care of your friend.

A necropsy is done AFTER the snake has already died. It may help determine cause of death.

You still haven't answered all my prior questions. You haven't addressed the husbandry issues, or how long Anthony had it.

CGluhcheff

04-25-2004, 03:29 PM

Sorry, I did not notice your questions.

The snake died on Saturday April 24th.
The enclosure was a 20 gal. long.
The cage was kept in his room and he stated it was kept at preferable temps with a Zoomed thermostat.
Yes, he had fresh water and the bowl was large enough to soak in.
Yes, he ate. He ate either Thursday or Friday. I will have to ask Anthony to be positive which day.
He ate a small mouse.

CGluhcheff

04-25-2004, 03:33 PM

When was I asked what my age was? Scott never asked. So how is it that I lied?

PAUL BOLLINGER

04-25-2004, 03:43 PM

How old is Bruce (your business partner)? You know Coast to Coast?
It sounds like you went in on a deal with Bruce and he received your snake.....then it died while in his possession. Did I miss something? You should seek reparation from Bruce not the person that you mis-represented yourself to.

DThomas

04-25-2004, 03:51 PM

Did you or did you not use the name Coast to Coast Reptiles in your correspondence with Scott?

Mis-representation is lying.
Failing to disclose the fact you are only 15 is a serious integrity issue.
Scott should not have had to ask if you were a minor. You should not have made the purchase without your parents consent AND involvement. Period.

Why did the snake stay with Anthony so long? I would be asking him why it died and holding him responsible for the snakes death, not Scott. He did tell Scott the snake arrived alive and healthy. You yourself stated Anthony has knowledge of snakes and that is why you wanted him to receive it. Was he wrong then that the snake arrived healthy? And an aquarium is a terrible enclosure for a snake. You can not easily keep prefered temps in one. Maybe your friend does not know as much as he would have you believe.

maddog

04-25-2004, 03:58 PM

We talk about how the son acted here, grant it, it was not the wisest behavior. But I do recall being that age myself. We talk about how our society is, but lets look at the issue here:
Cameron bought a snake. Scott believed him to be with a company (how he believed this I don't understand). For some reason the snaked died. Scott sells snakes, a private owner, does he have a policy he stands by? If the snake was to die in transport or with in so many days of having the snake?
In the state of California you have 7 days incase something happens to the snake. I would think in doing business Scott would offer so kind of warrenty on the health of the snake.
I do not believe the mother is wrong in wanting the money returned and if Scott believes this is a scam, why not work something out to where they send the dead snake back to Scott and he then replaces the snake, in doing these dealings with Cameron's mother, this way it is not with a minor.
The issue is not how Cameron acted or what kind of tabs his mother keeps on him. It's about a snake purchased and then dying. What is Scott willing to do other than being 'more than happy to oblige' to this going to court.

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 04:00 PM

OK, LEt me get this all straight:

1) you have a reptibid account which is against their policy,based on your age.
2)you have a "partner" named Bruce who uses the same username coasttocoastreptiles.
3)you purchased a snake, and each of you (Cameron and Bruce) sent money orders to cover the price in full.
4)the snake was sent to the person who, for whatever reason, you told Scott to send it to.
5)That person is supposed to know snakes, and you trust him, and yet it was fed, and ate readily within 3 days. Who feeds a snake that soon after shipping?
6)THE SNAKE ATE just fine.
7)The snake dies after arriving alive, before it was delivered to you.
8)You had it delivered to Anthony Vasquez on Tuesday because you were going to be at school. Why was it not picked up before Saturday?
10)You say that the issue is not with your age, but rather with the snake dieing. Would your mom still have a problem with the purchase of the snake if it were still alive?

Who is Bruce?How old is Bruce? Who is Anthony? How old is Anthony?

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 04:08 PM

Hey Maddog, you need to include your full name when replying to posts on the BOI. You may not have caught that rule having just registered today , to just come to this thread and post. Just out of curiosty, how did you find this thread so quick, and what made you decide that this would be the first place you ever post on fauna classifieds?

DThomas

04-25-2004, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by maddog
Scott sells snakes, a private owner, does he have a policy he stands by? If the snake was to die in transport or with in so many days of having the snake?

Scott will have to address this but most TOS I have read give live arrival and 24 hr health guarantees.

Originally posted by maddog
The issue is not how Cameron acted or what kind of tabs his mother keeps on him.

Abolutely it is. Cameron has already shown he can be deceptive. How can Scott truely know how well that snake was cared for? Boas are very easy snakes to care for and very hardy. IMO, that snake would have had to been showing some very outwardly signs of being sick to die that quickly. But Cameron's friend, Anthony, told Scott it arrived alive and healthy. How can we be sure Cameron is telling the truth now. He has no credibility at this point.

MarcAntony

04-25-2004, 04:19 PM

Me thinks me smells a rat. D Lawson, new member? Same lack of punctuation in the messages. The snake arrived at my friend's fine, but died before it got to me. The next thing you know there is going to be a message, "This is my mother, and I want a refund for my son".
IP checks moderators?

DThomas

04-25-2004, 04:19 PM

Could a mod check the IP of maddog and CGluhcheff. CGluhcheff signed off and maddog signed on and posted. Then maddog signs off and CGluhcheff signs back on. Very suspicious. Thank you.

If I am wrong, I apologize in advance. But we shall see.

The BoidSmith

04-25-2004, 04:20 PM

If he jumped to the conclusion of me being a business, thats his own fault. If I were you, next time I would ask for a proof of age. AND, this is not about purchasing without consent or anything like that, this is about a DEAD SNAKE.

Cameron,

The only problem is that although you say it is about a dead snake, you are now trying to use the proof of age thing to your advantage.

There are a few loose ends in the story. If the snake was sent sick and 5 days away from death would have more than likely not eaten for you. From what I'm able to see in that partial picture, the nutritional status of the animal doesn't seem to be bad. Furthermore you e-mailed Scott stating that it had arrived in good shape.

In MHO and even though the results might not conclusive (due to the animal having been frozen already) a necropsy might shed some light.

Regards.

CGluhcheff

04-25-2004, 04:23 PM

Just in:

Listen, I didn't say that I hired my attorney, I spoke to him. And you bring whatever case you want, the fact that Isent the snake to an adult, Anthony Vasquez, makes this a totally different case. So, I will await your court order to appear, and when I get it I will then solicit my attorney's assistance. Until then, have a nice day.

Scott J. Cotey

PAUL BOLLINGER

04-25-2004, 04:25 PM

Is that the same snake you shipped to them based on that pic?

DThomas

04-25-2004, 04:27 PM

Cameron,

Do you know maddog/ D. Lawson?

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 04:27 PM

I emailed Ritchie Luna to get some IP tracking going on. I dont know if Scott is around, so while we wait for him to come back, I will go find pics I have of the snake Scott sent and see if it is the same one.

maddog

04-25-2004, 04:32 PM

I am a friend of the familys. So yes, they do know me. I am pointing out a few things that no one else has. Everyone has a right to their opinion and I have been reading everything everyone else has to say, so I just thought it right to post mine as well.
I have seen the snake and yes, it is dead. We do not know the cause of death. And I do not believe anyone is trying to scam anyone else.

PAUL BOLLINGER

04-25-2004, 04:34 PM

DThomas

04-25-2004, 04:35 PM

Yes, everyone has the right to their own opinion but if you want to keep your's on this board, you have to provide your full name. If not, your posts are subject to deletion without warning by the mods. It's one of the rules here.

maddog

04-25-2004, 04:38 PM

Does it matter where I am?

As to my first name... I am sorry, I am an adult and with all the stuff that you see happens on the internet I am not comfortable posting my full name, just as I don't feel Scott should have posted any of Ashley's info. If my thoughts get deleted because of this, I am not worried, you have already seen them, correct?

PAUL BOLLINGER

04-25-2004, 04:44 PM

But if the ip's come back the same your creditability here will be shot. It won't be the first time it's happened and it wouldn't be the last. But the Ferret will tell us
thanks for responding.

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 04:47 PM

True maddog, we have seen your thoughts, and they add nothing. I just called all of the local shops in my area. I too live in CA, and not one of the shops knew anything about a 7 day guarantee. They say they offer their own guarantees, like 24 hours on fish, but as far as extending a guarantee by law, they don't have to.

WebSlave

04-25-2004, 05:22 PM

Based on a hunch by some people here, I was asked to check IP addresses for "maddog" and "CGluhcheff".

The addresses do match and they are the only two who share that same IP address on this site:

4.11.146.XXX (wbar10.lax1-4-11-146-XXX.dsl-verizon.net)
the last three digits are withheld

PAUL BOLLINGER

04-25-2004, 05:25 PM

Thanks Webslave!

Cut up your cards, You have no credit here, LOL.

maddog

04-25-2004, 05:31 PM

I never claimed to know laws. I just know that there are a few that do offer 7 days, at least where I am located.

Yes, I am over at there house visiting. Everyone has their own points. I was expressing mine.

What does creditablity have to do with anything? I just voiced my opinion in the whole matter. What I know as facts are that Cameron received the snake dead. How it died is beyond me. I also know that Cameron's email address was the only thing that stated coast to coast reptiles. He did not represent himself as a business and come on, would a bussiness use a yahoo email account? Some believe Cameron was wrong in his ways of buying the snake, but it is also wrong that it was sold over the internet to a 15 year old. Those are the facts. If this has to go to court, then it goes. A judge will be the true person to decide, all of this will mean nothing.

It's thoughts and opinions. What is wrong with that?

maddog

04-25-2004, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by PAUL BOLLINGER
Thanks Webslave!

Cut up your cards, You have no credit here, LOL.

This does not matter to me. Who are you that I must prove myself to? Must I give my life story and drive to my house and get online so that they are different? I stated that yes, I am visiting.

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 05:41 PM

In the state of California you have 7 days incase something happens to the snake.

Now you say you don't claim to know the laws. What was that all about on page 6 then? The BOI is not based on thoughts and opinion, although many times they are expressed here. You made a statement about how things are done in California. That is not an opinion, that is a lie.

maddog

04-25-2004, 05:45 PM

And it does not say 'The law in California is...'
Like I said, there are places that will give you 7 days. I never said ALL places will or that's our law. If I typed it wrong in thinking that was what I meant, I am so sorry.

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 05:49 PM

Here is a link I found that pretty much would make just about anyone think they were a business, or at the very least, old enough to bid on a reptibid auction.
They not only use the username CoasttoCoastReptiles, but sign posts with both "partners" names.
Bidding on items on reptibid can only be dont by someone over the age of 18.
I still want to know how old Bruce is.

http://www.reptibid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.pl?action=askquestion&category=b_snake_ballpythons&item=1081278917 (http://)

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 05:51 PM

Bidding on items on reptibid can only be done*...not dont

dwedeking

04-25-2004, 05:57 PM

Does anyone know what Scott's guarantee is? That is in reality the only thing that matters here. If it's live arrival and 24 hours (which is common) then it's a closed deal without a report of tests by a vet to determine that any illness was long term. If it's 7 day (which is also common) then Scott needs to resolve it.

The matter of selling to a minor is another issue entirely and I find it's ironic that the minor is the one crying foul. Could it be because the guarantee doesn't cover more than arrival and he's trying to weasel his way out of the deal on a technicality (one which he created, which if he was SOOOOOOOOo concerned about Scott selling to a minor he would have stated so before transaction took place)?

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 06:03 PM

Daniel. I doubt that any guarantee was stated, or even implied, Scott doesn't sell snakes as a business. The animal was sold out of his personal collection. I wonder if there is an implied guarantee by law if one is not stated.

Scooter J

04-25-2004, 06:29 PM

The question has arisen that why did I think that Coast to Coast was a business, well this is just one of the emails I recieved from Cameron and Bruce

Yes we would like to purchase your boa. Did you get the photos I was asking for? We were also curious about the size and age. What address would you like the money order sent to? Also, you will recieve two. One from me, and one from my partner. They will be in the amounts of $350 and $100. We would like the boa shipped to:
16775 Joshua Rd.
Apple Valley, CA 92307.
Let us know about the pictures when you have some free time.
Cameron & Bruce

I think anyone trying to purchase boas on reptibid, with a business name like Coast to Coast, and claiming that he has a partner, would assume that you are dealing with a business.

Thank You,
Scott J. Cotey

Scooter J

04-25-2004, 06:36 PM

I am attaching another reason why I had assumed they were a business. The name coast to coast reptiles, along with the partners mentioned in the previous email and the following indicating or implying that Cameron and Bruce were operating from California and Maryland.

I will be sending a MO out from Cali today, and Bruce should either send one out from Maryland either today or Monday. Let us know when you recieve them. I'm not sure if I gave you the adress or if maybe you didn't recieve it, but it is
Cameron Gluhcheff
16775 Joshua Rd.
Apple Valley, CA
92307.
I was also wondering how you plan on packing him. Thank you
Cameron & Bruce

Thanks for reading,
Scott J. Cotey

Scooter J

04-25-2004, 06:40 PM

I will post two emails recieved from Cameron and Bruce, one stating that I can trust them, as they are not scammers and the other indicating he wants me to ship to his friend,

Yes, they have been sent. When you recieve the MO, could you call me, Cameron, at (760)985-6751. I will be waiting for your call. I understand what you are saying by being burned, one of my worries from Reptibid is being scammed. I've seen it happen before, and honestly, I'm a little worried. But you would have to be crazy to not be scared about buying from a website that is known to have scammers. But you can tell I trust you, if I didn't, we wouldn't be sendng the money to you. Like I said, call me and let me know when they arrive.

Cameron & Bruce

Hey,
Alright I have the address for the person who will be recieving him. The address is:
Anthony Vasquez
346 N. Puente Ave.
West Covina, CA. 91790
His cell phone number is 626-641-5784. Just call him if you have any other questions. You can send him out this Wednesday or any time next week if you can. Thank you.
Cameron

I know I should have checked the age, but everything pointed to a legitimate business with two partners running it.

Thank You,
Scott J. Cotey

MarcAntony

04-25-2004, 06:49 PM

As a parent, another thought comes to mind. Where does a 15 year old get $450 in disposable income, and then use it without their parent's knowledge. I think I've said all I need to in this thread. If I seem bitter, it is because it seems to have been a bad week on the BOI for minors.
As a parting thought, Cameron/maddog/D lawson/Scumbag, whatever you want call yourself, do the rest of us a favor and take all of your alter-egos out of the gene pool.

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 06:53 PM

Lawson and Cameron,
Can either of you tell us how old Bruce and Anthony Marquez are?

The BoidSmith

04-25-2004, 07:01 PM

What I know as facts are that Cameron received the snake dead.

Cameron asked the snake to be delivered to his friend Anthony. The snake arrived alive and died while in Cameron friend's care.

Thanks.

maddog

04-25-2004, 07:09 PM

Like I stated before I am a friend of the family , so no, I can not tell you how old they are. I wish I could.

I would like to know from Scott, with his business of selling snakes, does he offer any kind of warrenty?

Scooter J

04-25-2004, 07:19 PM

I am not a business, I am a private owner that decided to sell a perfectly good DH Ghost, because I didn't need it in my collection anymore. I am going to attempt to breed some boas and produce Ghosts, and I have aquirred a Ghost, so I didn't need the DH Ghost any longer. As far as my warranty, I don't know how many people care enough to call the party that received the boa to make certain it arrived in good condition. Upon hearing that the snake was fine and doing very well, by Anthony Vasquez, I don't really know what my obligation is, unless of course they can substantiate that the boa died of some illness that ocurred while in my possession. But I have 8 other boas, and all are in very good health. I do feel bad that the snake is dead, but when I sent it, it was healthy, and when I talked to Anthony it was healthy. I don't think that it is my responsibility if something happened after Anthony Vasquez received it, and it died. IF it is my fault then please tell me how it passed on, and when. I don't think anyone else reading this can say that this sounds strange. I sell a snake to someone claiming to be coast to coast reptiles, to a pair of guys, claiming to be partners, and they have me send it to a friend, who states that it arrived fine and is doing great, and then suddenly it dies. It apparently ate according to Mrs. Glucheff, and then all of a sudden it is dead. I personally would not want anyone that is receiving my boa to feed it, I would think that the snake could wait until it got into the rightful owners hands before feeding it. But, then again, thats just me, and I trusted a company, coast to coast reptiles, that apparently is a kid. Sorry!
Sincerely,

Scott J. Cotey

Thank you,
Scott J. Cotey

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 07:20 PM

If you are sitting in their house, typing on their computer, you can turn around and ask how old Bruce and Anthony are. While you are at it , see if you can get a last name of Bruce in Maryland. Thanks in advance maddog.

JJFOUTZ

04-25-2004, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by maddog
What does creditablity have to do with anything? I just voiced my opinion in the whole matter. What I know as facts are that Cameron received the snake dead. How it died is beyond me. I also know that Cameron's email address was the only thing that stated coast to coast reptiles.

First off Credibility is everything here. “What you know as the facts are” That tells me you do not know the facts for sure and from what I have read, Cameron did not receive the snake. Cameron’s E-Mail address stating cost to cost reptiles is misleading in the least.

Originally posted by Scooter J
We would like the boa shipped to:
16775 Joshua Rd.
Apple Valley, CA 92307.
Let us know about the pictures when you have some free time.
Cameron & Bruce

Originally posted by CGluhcheff
Hey,
Alright I have the address for the person who will be recieving him. The address is:
Anthony Vasquez
346 N. Puente Ave.
West Covina, CA. 91790
His cell phone number is 626-641-5784. Just call him if you have any other questions. You can send him out this Wednesday or any time next week if you can. Thank you.
Cameron

Two questions, why do we have two ship to addresses in this thread? And Maddog, where you there Anthony Vasquez’s house when it was delivered, NOT Cameron’s house?

Randy T.

04-25-2004, 07:24 PM

Man, I hate the minor messes that pop up..lol get it minor.. I know not funny.

As far as any legal responsibility first and foremost to be able to claim Scott is at fault for selling an animal to a minor we need proof not mentioned, but proof of the age of both parties who paid for the animal. If either one is over 18 then case closed no fault can be put on Scotts shoulders for this.

I also want to know where the 7 day rule for california is written..

I don't have anything else to add at the moment.

Later

Scooter J

04-25-2004, 07:25 PM

The reason for two shipping address's is that when it came time to ship, he decided to ship it to a friends house, because he said he wasn't sure he would be home to recieve delivery. Therefore I followed his instructions and shipped it to Anthony Vasquez.

Thanks,

Scott J. Cotey

P.S.

As I have stated, I will await for the subpoena or whatever Mrs. Glucheff has her attorney send. Then I will contact my lawyer and take all of my documentation and meet them in court, and let the law determine who has mislead who and what should be done.

DaveyFig

04-25-2004, 07:26 PM

maddog

04-25-2004, 07:30 PM

Yes, being at their house you would think I could find something out from Cameron, but when he is not home, it's kind of hard.
No I was not at Anthony's when it was delivered. I was with Cameron and I seen the snake dead first hand yesterday. So I know that is a fact.
I can not answer why their are two ship addresses.

Sasheena

04-25-2004, 07:38 PM

Maddog, if you cannot follow the Terms of Service of this site, then all of your opinions aren't worth the screen their printed on. Either follow the TOS or don't bother to type. I'm sure someone else will tell me if you wish to comply but until then, I have you on ignore as one whose opinion is not worth anything... I imagine your posts will be deleted very soon anyway!

Scooter J

04-25-2004, 07:39 PM

I guess I am just stupid, but my first question by Cameron to Anthony is when did it die, why did you feed it, what happened after it arrived fine on Tuesday, and did you do anything that may have caused it any damage. How can I control what transpired from Tuesday to Saturday. I really would be questioning Anthony, instead Mrs. Glucheff is pulling the selling to a minor card, that is the whole rationale for me thinking this thing smells of a scam. Sorry, but i will take my case to court and let the judge hear all of their foolishness.

Thank You,
Scott J. Cotey

JJFOUTZ

04-25-2004, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by maddog
Yes, being at their house you would think I could find something out from Cameron, but when he is not home, it's kind of hard.
No I was not at Anthony's when it was delivered. I was with Cameron and I seen the snake dead first hand yesterday. So I know that is a fact.
I can not answer why their are two ship addresses.

Basically, after 8 posts and a warning point (more if all his posts were looked at):no01:. All you can tell us for sure is that the snake is dead.

The BoidSmith

04-25-2004, 08:34 PM

Alvaro, Do you happen to have Bruce from B&T's last name? I saw that you did a search on him in the past, and was just wondering, since he is a Bruce in Maryland, and probably not operating under B&T anymore after all the stuff with the het. balls.
Probably not the same Bruce, but could be.

No, I don't have it and I can't can't remember.

Again, for something to kill a boa that fast it has to be drastic. It was fine and eating and 5 days later it died. Cameron never indicated a concern for specific symptoms before the sudden death (for example: neurological, respiratory, diarrhea, regurgitation, etc.). Knowing it was kept in a tank where there is very little chance for thermal gradient I wander if excess temperature could have been the most likely cause of death. Again, just speculation.

Scott,

Do you have pictures of the boa while it was alive at your place? The picture of the dead boa posted in this thread doesn't show the entire body.

Thanks.

HerpVenue

04-25-2004, 08:39 PM

let me first off say.....I do not know either party.

but let me state some facts as I see them.

1. Coast to coast reptiles.....implies you are a business or a wanna be business. but we might be able to overlook this.

2. Saying you have a partner implies you are in business. we might be able to overlook this.

3. To be in business you have to be old enough. we definatley can't over look this

4. To have an account on reptibid you have to abide by their rules. we can't over look this

5. This is the first rule on reptibid
Article 1. Eligibility of membership - This auction site is only available to people who are legally able to form binding contracts with you and the seller/buyer of an auction item. People who are of under age of 18 are not eligible for membership due to security precautions that can result as of those members. If you do not meet these requirements, you are not eligible to use these auction services. we definately can't over look this

6. This dee lawson (or whatever their name is) does not care for the rules of this and any other site and neither does the other people involved. I see a pattern of BLATANT disreguard for rules and TOS

7. After blatant disreguard for rules and TOS...they all of a sudden want Scott to abide by the California laws which they just made up. double standards?

8. The snake was shipped to an adult. Therefore that adult took responsibility. End of story. no ifs and or buts.

9. Snakes do not die so suddenly unless there is something extremely wrong before you get excited read number ten (10)

10. If there is something extremly wrong with a snake ie disease or what not.....It definately would NOT EAT

you still think you will win this case?

HerpVenue

04-25-2004, 08:43 PM

Scott some questions for you.
yes and no will be fine

1. Did they represent themselves as Coast to Caost Reptiles?

2. Did they refer to each other as "partner"?

3. Did they buy the snake through a website where you have to be eighteen (18) to participate?

4. Did you send the snake to an adult named "Anthony"?

5. Did you give a warranty or mention a warranty or imply a warranty?

end of discussion no ifs and or buts.
I rest my case

Scooter J

04-25-2004, 09:13 PM

1. Did they represent themselves as Coast to Caost Reptiles?

Yes they did represent themselves as a business as indicated by the emails.

2. Did they refer to each other as "partner"? Yes as indicated by their emails again.

3. Did they buy the snake through a website where you have to be eighteen (18) to participate?
Yes, they got a hold of me from reptibid, but after the auction failed to net a high enough price. They even tried to buy him through a buy it now option, and I have the email to prove it.

4. Did you send the snake to an adult named "Anthony"?
Yes, I was instructed to mail the snake to Anthony Vasquez

5. Did you give a warranty or mention a warranty or imply a warranty?

No, I did not offer a warranty, nor did they ask for one, but I would have been obligated had the snake arrived in poor condition, which it did not.

I also would like to post the latest email from the mother for all of you to review as well as my response to her. I am really trying to hold my patience but she is pressing me to the limit.

It doesn't really matter if you have an attorney since this is a small
claims issue. Attorneys are not allowed in small claims court.Since Cameron
paid for the snake and sent the money order it does not make a difference
that you mailed it to Anthony but I am sure that your attorney told you
this. I have your home address and will make sure that the local Marshall
serves you the court papers. I will see you this summer in court. Since I am
the one filing the case against you I will set the date in July. You can
also expect me to get the proper paperwork for the Attorney Generals Office.
I am also going to contact the postal authorities since the check was mailed
as was the snake to see if there was some kind of Federal Offense. Please
have no doubt that I will not take this to the full extent of the law. I
will also contact your local newspaper and write a commentary as well as
posting this on the website. I want to ensure that you do not take advantage
of other minors.
You are an adult and you should be ashamed to have taken advantage of a
minor. You have made accusations about me trying to "scam" you but rest
assured I am a not that type of person and this will be addressed in court.
I teach at a local college part-time and am a full time Special Education
teacher, and my husband is a Master Sergeant who is currently serving in
Iraq. This is not about the money but about an adult who "scams' minors out
of their hard earned money. As a child advocate in my community it is my job
to protect children against people like.
In case you misplace any of my emails you will be able to view them on the
"Inquiry Board". I know that this is am appropriate forum since you posted
the emails there first.
You have replied to many of the issues but you did not reply to the one
about any "reputable" dealer would guarantee the snake for 7 days. Is there
some reason that you don't feel that this is an issue? Cam was at the local
reptile show this weekend and every dealer has a 7 day guarantee. I will
bring proof of this when I take you to court.
I would have Cameron file the court papers but as you know he is a minor and
cannot handle matters such as this. I am sure that in the long run that this
will cause you a lot more time a greif then it would have to refund my son
his money.
Ashley Gluhcheff

No my response, sorry I got a little fed up with her.

Mrs. Glucheff,

I am not a business, but a private owner. I sold the snake to coast to coast reptiles, who represented themselves, Cameron and Bruce as partners, as indicated in their emails. I followed their instructions to the letter, and sent the boa to Anthony Vasquez, who reported to me that everything was fine with the boa. If you have any issues they should be #1 with your son for misrepresentation, #2 with Anthony Vasquez, who said the snake was fine and doing great, what happened from Tuesday to Saturday, #3 you should ask yourself why a 15 year old boy is doing business with another individual named Bruce and passing themselves off as a business. I look forward to seeing you in court. By the way, why don't you teach your children to accept responsibility for their actions, instead of always looking to blame others. As far as a return policy, since the snake was sent to Anthony Vasquez and he informed me it was fine and doing great, then I don't have any responsibility for the snake after that, unless you can prove to me that it was ill before it was sent, which it wasn't. Something occurred from Tuesday till your son received it on Saturday, but you are just looking to blame me without searching for the truth. I will not be bullied, intimidated or threatened by a mother that hasn't got enough sense of right and wrong to teach her children properly. I hope you haven't infected the population teaching your school children those same values.

Good Day,
Scott J. Cotey

Thank you for your assistance

Scott J. Cotey

The BoidSmith

04-25-2004, 09:35 PM

Scott,

Do you have a picture of the boa while alive and before it was shipped (the picture you showed Cameron)? The one posted of the dead boa only shows the upper 1/3 of the body. Just wanted to verify the nutritional status of the animal Mr. Vazquez received.

Thanks,

Randy T.

04-25-2004, 09:41 PM

I want to see a full body picture of the dead animal.. As far as we know the gentlemen caring for the dh ghost could have dropped a heavy item on it and ruptured something internally.. But without a vet visit or atleast a full body picture we will never know.

I also wanted to mention as far as "small claims court won't allow attorneys" that may be so, but when the defamation of character and possible other counter suit claims are brought into this it more then likely will go well beyond small claims.

I still think it is needed to know the ages of the purchasers, (both of them) and the individual who took in the package.

This is sad example of why home schooling is such a good idea in todays day and age. I think all teachers with the "blame anyone but your children/self" mentality should be kicked out of the teaching profession..

dwedeking

04-25-2004, 09:47 PM

small claims court won't allow attorneys

Actually this is only partially true. While an attorney can not represent you in small claims, if you lose you have 30 days to appeal. At the appeal you can bring in your lawyer to argue for you. As per California law.

Sasheena

04-25-2004, 09:55 PM

This is sad example of why home schooling is such a good idea in todays day and age. I think all teachers with the "blame anyone but your children/self" mentality should be kicked out of the teaching profession..

Don't blame the entire teaching profession due to the bad example of one teacher. There are as many kinds of teachers out there as there are people who own and sell herps.... the real scum and the real noble. As a teacher I try to teach my students to be responsible for their themselves. It's amazing to me how many will come on a day when they know in advance that no bathroom passes will be given out, and want to go to the restroom within minutes of arriving at class. I tell them they need to be responsible for their bodily functions, their mouths, and their own learning. They don't understand this, but hopefully, over the course of four years in high school, they learn a bit of this and leave high school a slightly more responsible person.

The saddest thing is when someone without any sense of personal responsibility is empowered in this by the actions of their parent(s), teaching them to place blame elsewhere, anything other than taking personal responsibility. It's a HARD thing to do to take personal responsibility, but the rewards are worth it. Sadly our entire society is turning into a blaming morass. And homeschooling is not necessarily the answer. I had a student who was homeschooled, came to High School, threatened another student with a knife to the throat and was able to get around ANY personal responsibility by threatening the witnesses into lying, and getting a good lawyer. The student returned to the classroom, slick as can be, no personal responsibility, mom and dad fixed it, like they fixed the witnesses.

The BoidSmith

04-25-2004, 09:56 PM

I want to see a full body picture of the dead animal.. As far as we know the gentlemen caring for the dh ghost could have dropped a heavy item on it and ruptured something internally.. But without a vet visit or atleast a full body picture we will never know.

Good point. A full body picture of the snake alive right before it was shipped and one after it died may shed some light as of the cause of death. If the animal ate as Cameron claims it did we will probably see the bulge compared to the picture before it was shipped.

Regards.

CGluhcheff

04-25-2004, 10:06 PM

Here is the full body picture as asked for:

Randy T.

04-25-2004, 10:07 PM

While you are here to post the pic can you share with us the age of you, your partner, and the age of the person who the snake was shipped to?

Thank you

The BoidSmith

04-25-2004, 10:11 PM

There is quite a gastric distension there. What size of a prey item was offered? What temperature was he kept at?

Thanks.

CGluhcheff

04-25-2004, 10:13 PM

My grandfather (a retired Deputy District Attorney for San Bernardino County) has advised me not to say anything further. You asked for a full body picture, so I have posted one. As for one before shipped you will have to ask Scott.

Randy T.

04-25-2004, 10:14 PM

I am sure then that if your grandfather is not "allowing" you to say anything more then one of the 3 asked for ages is over 18.. What a load of crap...

Randy T.

04-25-2004, 10:38 PM

I was thinking.. If you are so confident that you will win in a court hearing why not go and have the vet do a complete work up on the animal.. I wouldn't be surprised to see the results showing some sort of severe internal trauma. The worst case in this since you are confident in your winning in court then you can just tack on vet fees to the suit..

Just a suggestion.. It might shed some light on the situation for yourself.

HerpVenue

04-25-2004, 10:40 PM

she is a special ed teacher.
her husband is in the military
her father is a retired district attorney.

therefore they are 100% totally right and can do no wrong.
(I see a lot of "bragging" in this thread)

it is not about money.....it is about principle. the fact that he sold to a minor.
that is why the first thing she wrote is the fact that the boa died.

who cares if it was shipped to an adult (meaning an adult took responsibility ad their waws obviously adult supervision)

who cares if they called themselves partners and pretended to be a business.

who cares if they "lied" errrrr mislead you.

who cares if they were supposed to be eighteen to be a member of that site.
who cares if they broke TOS
who cares if Mommy can't keep tabs on her own kid............(whoops I was wrong for writing that....after all she is a special ed teacher and can do no wrong)
who cares if she refuses to teach him the value of taking respnsibility for the sh!t you pull.

It is all okay. he can lie.......eeeerrrr I mean mislead, cheat, break the rules........... he can do all that. It is okay. after all she is a teacher who happens to be the daughter of a retired DA who happens to also be married to a member of the military. Obviously they are trying to tell you that they are in a class where they can do no wrong.

in fact they are so upperclass that they can tell you what kind of warranty to give and for how long.
they are so upperclass that if they do something wrong.....
1. you are wrong not them.
2. they will sue you for implying they were wrong.

Pull your head out of your ASS lady. You know it is about money and not principle.

p.s. I am in the military.....Maried to anurse who saves lives everyday. .........my point is you really did ot see me say ASS.
And if you think I said ASS
1. you are obviously lower class and are wrong.
2. I will sue you

Wilomn

04-25-2004, 10:40 PM

For there to be liquid coming out of that snakes mouth like that shown in the picture, where there is NO other liquid, it is not a bad guess that the snake was fed a HUGE meal and then overheated, causing the food item to swell and possibly rupture the stomache or some other intestinal body. There is no liquid from the rear end of the snake. There is no evidence that the snake has been frozen and thawed for this picture but, there IS a fair amount of some sort of liquid coming from that snakes mouth.

Scott, I one time had a woman call me several times a week for two or three weeks and tell me that a boa she had bought from my store had died. I asked her for her name, went through EVERY RECIEPT I had written for the couple of months prior to her SUPPOSED purchase and could not find her name. I figured she had purchased it from another shop and was trying to get me to replace. It wouldn't have been the first time that was tried.

I informed her of the lack of reciept and she INSISTED that I, personally, had sold her the snake. I asked her for a necropsy. She didn't have one but wanted me to replace the snake.

After going on and on with her for those two or three weeks I told her to just quit calling me, that we had obviously never done business.

About a month later I get served to go to small claims court about a boa that died.

Ok, off to court I go. I get up and tell the judge just what I've related here: she said I, personally, sold her the snake. I had NO record of it and we wrote a reciept for EVERY reptile sold. I told the judge I did not recognize her at all and had never done business with her.

She got up and said I had sold her a snake that died but she had not taken it to the vet.

Then, in the audiance, I saw a young lady holding a snake I DID recognize. I had sold it to her two or three months previous to the court date.

FLASH, off goes the lightbulb.

I asked the woman if she knew the girl with the snake. She did, as it was her DAUGHTER. The daughter was a college student locally and had bought the snake from me. The daughter's name and the mother's were different, hence the no record of sale. I showed the judge right then and there my reciept for the snake, as I had brought my sales books with me, then asked the $64,000.00 question.

How if the snake DIED, was the woman's daughter wearing the snake around her neck?

Turns out the snake didn't die, it had gotten sick and they wanted money for vet bills but didn't think I'd pay for them as it happened after my guarentee period, which was stamed on every reciept we wrote, had expired.

Since I had NOT done business with the woman and the snake was NOT dead, the judge tossed the case then and there.

I know this is not EXACTLY like your case, but without a necropsy and if any of the purchasers or the person recieving the snake were over 18, this woman hasn't got a leg to stand on.

And shame on you for teaching your child to shirk responsibility. He bought the snake, it arrived alive and well, was verified to have done so and all was well.

Then someone KILLS the snake, if it is indeed the same snake, and you have the GALL to try to blame the guy who your son LIED to? You are some great roll model lady, real good job raising your kid there.

Wes Pollock

HerpVenue

04-25-2004, 10:47 PM

Sasheena

04-25-2004, 11:08 PM

I found it was also interesting how she said she'd been to a reptile show recently and EVERY SINGLE SELLER THERE had a 7-day guarantee on their animals.

I guess I would like to know WHAT REPTILE show? I won't ask who was there, once I know the reptile show it's not too difficult to find out who sold there.

What I REALLY want to know... is this an issue over age or over the death of the snake.

If it's ONLY about the death of the snake, why bring age into the picture at ALL??

If it's only about age, why bring the death of the snake into the picture at all?

Seems the one doing all the bragging about "My relatives are more impressive than your relatives" needs to figure out exactly what they think was done wrong and then focus only on that issue, instead of bringing all these side issues into it.

I always ALWAYS find it fascinating that people come on here, spouting gibberish, bringing in "others" on THEIR COMPUTER who break TOS, who always have relatives who are God or at least some powerful facsimile thereof, and then are "unable" to say anything because their "lawyer" said not to.

Randy T.

04-25-2004, 11:38 PM

Here is a pic of the dh ghost before it was shipped.

I am posting it as a favor for Scott. (I actually was wanting to purchase this animal before he finally did sell it. But I unfortunately did not have the funds at the time.) I really wish I had so the animal would be alive today... :(

Wilomn

04-25-2004, 11:53 PM

That does look like the same snake in both pictures.

However, given the fact that it arrived alive and was reported to the seller as healthy upon arrival I would consider the deal done.

Who first said it arrived dead? The wonder mother? Someone besides the children is not telling the truth. If it arrived dead then money should be refunded or the snake should be replaced. If arrived alive and there was no guarentee, then the deal was done and over.

How old is anthony? That's an important question. In the absense of any written guarentee I thinks it's pretty much buyer beware.

It is beginning to look an awfully lot like the snake arrived alive and well and was then killed by inexperiance or accident. Either way it is NOT the fault of the seller. Especially not when it was reported that the snake arrived alive and well.

Wonder mom, you're up. Prove the condition of the snake upon arrival please.

Wes Pollock

HerpVenue

04-25-2004, 11:55 PM

selling to a minor:
you shipped to an adult. obviously there was adult supervision. Case closed

the boa dies:
well they did not bring it to the vet so how sure are you it was your fault and not theirs. case closed

the kid received a dead boa:
the kid received a dead boa from anthony (an adult). he did not receive a dead boa from you. case closed

But it is okay....she is high and might teacher. Father is high and mighty DA. husband is high and mighty soldier. It should not be too hard for them to put a spin on things

Pet store and reputable dealers give a 7 day warranty on snakes and other animals ( I can prove this in court).
I am in Maryland. the pet stores around here do not do a 7 day warranty.
I used to be in South Carolina. The pet stores there DO NOT do a 7 day warranty.

I do not believe the mother is wrong in wanting the money returned and if Scott believes this is a scam, why not work something out to where they send the dead snake back to Scott and he then replaces the snake, in doing these dealings with Cameron's mother, this way it is not with a minor.
the quote above shows that it is not about selling to a minor.
it is about them wanting a snake. OBVIOUSLY if the mother is willig to accept another snake.......OBVIOUSLY the kid had consent. Thank you family friend for confirming this

The issue is not how Cameron acted or what kind of tabs his mother keeps on him. It's about a snake purchased and then dying. thank you family friend for confirming yet again that it is not about doing business with a minor. Thank you for confirming that all you people want is a snake. And if all you people want is a snake. that pretty much confirms yet again that he had consent to purchase said snake.

What I know as facts are that Cameron received the snake dead. He received it dead from anthony. Anthony received it alive. Perhaps you are suing the wrong person

When you talk to your attorney make sure that he verifies that the Law in California and in most other states that there is a seven day guarantee of life on all purchased animals. The quote above shows that mommy should not be teaching special ed. Rather, she should be taught.
Lady there is no such law.

AND, this is not about purchasing without consent or anything like that, this is about a DEAD SNAKE.
thank you cameron for confirming yet again that the age thing is not really the thing here

As my mom stated, he died before I recieved him. 1. he died in the care of the adult you entrusted him to. You empowered that adult to make desicions for you in regards to the care of the animal. You empowered that adult to act on your behalf in regards to the snake. hence it is as if you were there.

2. I thought you said your mommy new nothing about it?
So how can she know it died before it got to you?
Therefore she knew it was with anthony the whole time.

Your grandfather is right. You better shut up. You are losing your case before you even start.

I trust Anthony 100% with my snakes and would still let him care for any of them while I was away. Thank you for letting us know that you do empower anthony to care for your snakes while you are away.

And I think mrs special ed was asking what reputable breeder/dealer would not offer a 7 day guarantee.

Bob Clark (www.bobclark.com ) 24 hours
Peter Kahl ( www.pkreptiles.com ) 48 hours
Dave and Tracy Barker ( www.vpi.com ) 24 hours
mike ( www.constrictors.com ) 24 hours

and many many others.
there is no law that says you have to have a certain amount of warranty

HerpVenue

04-26-2004, 12:15 AM

p.s. you better copy those pics.

mrs. special ed teacher says it died before he received it.
She then told him to take pictures.

those look like freshly dead pictures to me.

definately not frozen and then thawed for the picture.

definately not sitting there waiting for cameron to take him home.......then waiting for him to tell mommy
then waiting for him to come over and take a picture.

those pics are pretty fresh to me.

something is up
someone is not telling the truth.
she says she feels this is a scam.
she is right......after all she speaks from eeerrrr..... experience.
Scott you are getting scammed.

TIGERRETIC

04-26-2004, 01:11 AM

DID YOU HAVE A CONTRACT WITH HIM SAYING THAT YOU HAVE A 5 DAY HEALTH GUARANTEE .IF NOT THEN THATS HIS FAUILT. ALSO PICTURES DONT MEAN ANYTHING . IF THE SNAKE IS DEAD TELL HIM TO SHIP IT BACK TO YOU. THATS THE ONLY REAL EVIDENCE. I DO THINK IT IS A SCAM. BUT THERE IS NO FAUILT ON YOUR BEHALF AND YOU DO NOT OWE THEM A PENNY. THATS THE RULES ON REPTIBID. SUCKS THAT THE KID LIED ABOUT HIS AGE BUT OH WELL.

Sasheena

04-26-2004, 03:41 AM

Scenario #1: Anthony received a beautiful, live boa. Put it in a 20-Long and turned on the heating pad. Fed it a mouse. The pad overheated & the snake died.

Scenario #2: Anthony received a beautiful, live boa. Put it in some container for "Coast to Coast Reptiles" for them to take it to their home. They stopped a few times on the journey home, including a couple of hours at the Mall, and voila, the snake baked to death. When they got home the snake was only barely alive so they said "Sh!t" and brought it indoors, dunking its head in ice water to try to hydrate it and cool it off. Placed on the kitchen floor it spewed and died of shock. *snap* picture taken.

Scenario #3: Anthony received a beautiful, live boa. He gave the beautiful live boa to Coast to Coast Reptiles, who then had an argument with Mom. He explains that he can't get his money back, as the snake is perfect in every detail :(. Mom says, "you're getting your money back and getting rid of 'that thing". proceeding to grab it by the tail and whack it on the floor. "Doesn't look too perfect to me," she says, a malicious gleam in her eye."

Who knows what really happened in the death of the snake. This isn't a CSI show where we see all the possible scenarios, and then the lab tech comes up with the fibers necessary to pin the murder on one individual. I do believe, however, that this is a murder. The snake through neglect or malicious intent, was somehow mistreated enough to die within five days. And that is the saddest part of all... the loss of the beautiful snake, and I'm not even a Boa Afficianado. (All red-tail boas look the same to me).

Perhaps (it suddenly occurs to me) she, the mom, means that "all reputabal petstores have a 7 day guarantee" she is referring to that pinnacle of reptile husbandry and care: Petco, which does indeed have a seven day guarantee. And perhaps the seller is indeed a scoundrel for not being just like Petco.

Oh well all the above is mere speculation and opinion and not to be considered actual accusations.

Until and unless they can provide answers to the questions asked in this thread, these guys are bad guys.

montezuma

04-26-2004, 04:39 AM

Not exactly on the issue but you posted the peoples address??? I don't know exactly what to do about the snake but posting this persons address is putting yourself in a bad position. If I were them I would be furious, too many homes get broken into due to people seeking expensive herps and you just put their address for all to see...

BTW, Ritchie posted that the law sees nothing about needing a warranty... not true. Every state has different laws regarding sales and warranties. You shipped over state lines... federal issue not to mention possible interstate fraud on their part. Read the laws and understand them prior to shipping, it could save you alot of heartache.

j tyler

04-26-2004, 06:21 AM

I don't even think the snake is dead. It looks like it could still be alive. And why does the syliva extend away from the head in the picture? BTW I hope Mr. Luna does not get a warning for telling the lady to " take her head out of her ass". James Tyler

strayvoltage

04-26-2004, 11:07 AM

When I started Keeping and breeding reptiles I was also a minor! I was also a minor when I bought my first high dollar animals!

I had a job and paid for all the animals I purchased! never once did I have to get my parents involved in my business transactions. ( and I also have a pretty impressive family) I never used any one of them! also I will admit to Unintentionaly killing many different animals!( i still can't seem to keep frogs alive even though I have done exactly what others have done) back then most reptiles avail were wild caught.

Eventually I learned how to care for them properly not over feed new snakes. Keep them warm not hot, and above all do not mess with a newly purchased snake, until it has been de stressed! Shipping an animal is stressful!

I was purchasing animals from importers using bank transfers and My Parents creditcards! and many times animal arived looking good but dying later in the next few days! Never once did I consider that them selling to a minor could get me my money back! It was just part of doing business!

It seems that as a parent you may feel that you have have your little boy's best intrest at heart. How ever he misrepresented himself, and he or one of his friends killed a snake! as far as who his grand father is or was has nothing to do with this.

Your threats mean nothing on this board except to further the wedge that has been placed between your Little Boy, and the rest of the herp world! It may seem large but it is quite small, and Karma Sux

Scooter J

04-26-2004, 12:19 PM

As you saw from Cam's email that Anthony did not hold the snake when it
arrived. After it had been at the house for two days he then noticed a bump
on his neck. The injury could have happened while the snake was mailed. You
do know that I have looked into it and you mailed him illegally. It is a
Federal Offence to mail a snake that is alive the way you did it. I am in
the process of collecting the proper paperwork and filling it out. There are
reasons that the Federal Government does not allow a person to mail an
animal in this manner. I guess that this will be an issue for both of our
Attorney Gnereral as well as the Federal Government to deal with. You should
expect them to contact you within the next few weeks. You do realize that
it is up to a $100,000 fine for shipping the snake the way you did. You said
online that you didn't care if the it cost you more than the cost of the
snake so I guess that you won't mind paying the Federal Government the fine.
I am sure they will take payments. You do understand that I am going to push
this to the full extent of the law. I was told that they are a little back
logged and it might take up to a month to process the paerwork once they get
it. You siad that in small claims court you would win but since you also
broke a Federal Law there is no way you will win.
Ashley Gluhcheff

I really don't know what this womens problem is, but I have done everything that her son requested, and that included sending the boa Federal Express. As I had mentioned, I am a private owner and I don't sell or buy snakes for a living, so I am not aware of all of the rules, my bad, but live and learn, I guess I am going to jail.

Thanks,

Scott J. Cotey

Randy T.

04-26-2004, 12:30 PM

Um, Scott, you might want to send an email to her with this link.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33533

Apparantly she doesn't realize that it is legal to ship snakes through Federal Express.. If you get set up properly. Also you should look into setting up through them so you are protected later on down the road.

Later

dwedeking

04-26-2004, 12:53 PM

If you get set up properly.

Even if your not then it's just a violation of company policy. You get sent to Fedex Hell :D

Scott,

Thanks again for bringing these people to light. Definitely a "seller beware" situation.

HerpVenue

04-26-2004, 01:25 PM

Scott,
it is obvious yet again that mom needs to talk to her lawyer dad.

IT is against federal law to mail a snake.
but you did not mail it.
You sent it Fed Ex.
That is not illegal.
just against company policy.
All they will do is tell you not to do it again or tell you that you can no longer ship through them.

an to the person with warranty. sorry I no longer have that screen up.
are you trying to say the feds have a law that tells me how much warranty I have to give for live animals?

In that case a whole bunch of people in the reptile community are all felons.
It is a felony to break federal law. And to me that means they are all felons.
(MY opinion.....not necesarily the truth)

HerpVenue

04-26-2004, 01:46 PM

BTW, Ritchie posted that the law sees nothing about needing a warranty... not true. Every state has different laws regarding sales and warranties. You shipped over state lines... federal issue not to mention possible interstate fraud on their part. Read the laws and understand them prior to shipping, it could save you alot of heartache.

Can you provide us a link to those laws where it states he has to provide a warranty for live animals?

It is obvious MRS Special Ed is digging.
First shee harps on him selling to a minor.............but it was shipped to an adult.

Then she harps on the snake being dead..................one it died in anthony;s care after he said it was okay. .......two there was no warranty express or impied.

so now she is going for the it is illegal to mail them...........while she is absolutely rightabout the law.........she is also absolutely wrong..... he sent it Fed Ex.

dig somemore MRS Special Ed. Your Dad is retired district attorney. .... I can't believe that is the best he can come up with.

Oh yeah...what happened to your gag order from your lawyer?
Is that no longer in effect? Because you are now e-mailing cameron.

and to the person with a comment about the head pull out of @ss thing.
I am military. My wife is nurse. I have at least five doctors in the family. one lawyer. And one that is JAnet Reno's equivalent in the Phillipines. what I am trying to say is my sh1t don't stink. you did not really see waht you thought you saw. I guess I will have to talk to my lawyer because you implied my sh!t was stinky ;)

shoot I just remembered my sister and another uncle. make that seven doctors.

E2MacPets

04-26-2004, 02:04 PM

Mr Cotey,
My name is Ashley Gluhcheff. My son Cameron bought a snake from you online
and mailed you a money order for $350.00. When Cameron took posession of the
snake it was dead. I had him take pictures of the snake so you can see that
it is dead. He will email them to you tonight. Cameron is 15 years old and
cannot legally enter a contract to make purchases of this sort. He purchased
this snake without my permission or knowledge. I expect you to return his
money. You can mail it directly to me at :
Ashley Gluhcheff
16775 Joshua Rd
Apple Valley CA 92307
If you have any questions you can reach me at 760-221-8520 or on my home
phone 760-247-9505. You have 7 days to return his money.

Let us start from the beginning.

My son Cameron bought a snake from you online
and mailed you a money order for $350.00.

Who took out the money order in the first place?

Cameron is 15 years old and
cannot legally enter a contract to make purchases of this sort.

He can not legally enter a contract, that may be true. But he can legally make purchases. And whoever the money order belonged to legally purchased something with that money.

When Cameron took posession of the
snake it was dead.

But it wasn't dead upon receipt. It was live and well upon reciept by the designated reciever.

j tyler

04-26-2004, 02:12 PM

Sorry everyone, but I still don't think the snake is even dead. The picture seems like a live snake with fake drewl attached. I am also very pleased that some of you are mentioning your relatives;it's interesting and adds spice to this thread. James Tyler

Flyride

04-26-2004, 03:08 PM

You know everyone on this site should be ashamed with some of the unnessisary rude comments and sarcasm posted. It is totally uncalled for. And here you are acting as if people should listen to your professional advice when you display poor ethics in your comments. Esspecially you Richie, I and others have a few chioce words that id like to say about you and a handfull of others but I dont spend my day on a forum dragings people name through the mud. Get a life!. This is a board of inquirey not a court room and your not an internet police officer however if you enjoy make believe or if it makes you feel important than im happy for you!

Now to the problem. The fact of the matter is he sold someone an animal that dies in 5 days. In order for a boa to die in 5 days there must have been an illness prior to shipping or injury durring. I seriously doubt it was killed by the individual who cared for it because he is a current boa keeper and has experiance and a knowledgable member on other sites. The matter of the age is simply the sellers attempt to not refund the money and is a coward copout. I have personally saw pictures of the boa with a substantial kink in its neck and that points that the health of the animal was poor to begin with.

Bottom line.... If the boa was healthy it wouldnt of died in 5 days and age is a factor having no wieght on the fact that the animal died.

Please do not quote me, respond in your own words and do not twist mine to work in your favor as you are notorious for. And please feel free to try to now bash me because I and many others dont care for this site and feel you have just gone to far.

Have a nice day, Im going to go deepsea fishing in my boat tonight what are you gonna do sit in from of your computer and discuss what you think about other people problems hahahahhaa have fun debating things having nothing to do to you.

Randy T.

04-26-2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by j tyler
Sorry everyone, but I still don't think the snake is even dead. The picture seems like a live snake with fake drewl attached. I am also very pleased that some of you are mentioning your relatives;it's interesting and adds spice to this thread. James Tyler

You know you could be right.. Here are a couple pictures of my ivory anery. The first picture is of him when he first arrived to my house (I had more pix that were a bit clearer but can't locate them..grr)

http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Randysherps/Ivory_anery_when_arrived_half_frozen.jpg
This snake when first arrived was ice cold, and didn't move for about a minute..then finally a bit of head wobbling and very very slow tongue flickering..(he pulled through)

And here he is about a month ago
http://img23.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Randysherps/my_future_breeders_025.jpg
It shows that a snake that is still alive given certain circumstances and give the full impression of being dead.

So I still say WHERE IS THE VET DOCUMENTS? If you haven't taken the dead snake yet why not? If the animal died from an internal injury (which is still my guess) It will show the internal damage..

So come on Mrs Special Ed.. Get him to the vet..

Flyride

04-26-2004, 03:17 PM

come on randy. I have a lot of respect for you and hold you higher than making rude comments to belittle people. Man it doesnt say much for your professionalism. Please dont get sucked into the others bad habbits you have a great site.

So come on Mrs Special Ed.. Get him to the vet..

See that is the little unnessisary comments im talking about.
Why not keep it clean?

Sasheena

04-26-2004, 03:26 PM

I will use the quote feature, as it's convenient. If I were to state YOUR words in MY words, you would simply say I was twisting what YOU said. :) So if you're going to accuse me of that in the first place, then I'll take the easy way out.

In order for a boa to die in 5 days there must have been an illness prior to shipping or injury durring.

It takes only a minute to step on a snake and kill it. Only an hour on super high heat to bake it to death. I wouldn't try to predict the length of time necessary to kill a snake by feeding it too soon after shipping and having it unfortunately regurge and aspirate its stomach contents leading to death. Just because the boa died quickly doesn't mean it was sick when it arrived. If there was a problem with the shipping, then I would expect to see photos of the box before opening, while being opened, and of the animal being removed from the container. Whenever I receive an animal I always document these steps. No matter WHO the shipper is... no matter how reputable. IF it was injured and dying straight out of the box why would the person who received it say it was fine, fit, and healthy? If there is any desire to show fault on the person selling the snake for any illness the snake had prior to being shipped, then there needs to be a necropsy done that conclusively proves that he is to blame for the animal's death. If the animal died of an injury, I would not accept that the injury occurred during shipping, as the verdict straight out of the box was that the animal was fine. Any fatal injury sustained during the shipping would have been obvious. Either in the very beginning, or at least later on when the animal would have refused to eat.

Scooter J

04-26-2004, 03:29 PM

Your comments
Now to the problem. The fact of the matter is he sold someone an animal that dies in 5 days. In order for a boa to die in 5 days there must have been an illness prior to shipping or injury durring. I seriously doubt it was killed by the individual who cared for it because he is a current boa keeper and has experiance and a knowledgable member on other sites. The matter of the age is simply the sellers attempt to not refund the money and is a coward copout. I have personally saw pictures of the boa with a substantial kink in its neck and that points that the health of the animal was poor to begin with.

My comments,

How do you know that something didn't occur after reciept of the snake? The individual that took reciept of the boa, Anthony Vasquez, informed me that the snake was fine and doing great. If someone had an accident, or neglected the snake, or whatever, it could have died or been injured. Now, I am supposed to believe that the snake died because it was ill. But the fact is that it was in perfect health and if anything was wrong then wouldn't Mr. Vasquez have noticed something wrong, and why, if it was ill did it eat a mouse on Thursday or Friday? If a boa is ill, the chances of it eating are not very good. And I would still like to know if any of you sold a snake that was received in good condition and died five days later of mysterious causes, would you believe all of the B.S. that has been thrown at me from Mrs. Glucheff? First she was complaining that I sold a snake to a minor, well, if the snake was alive would that be a different story. She must have known he bought the snake before it arrived Saturday? I just can't and will not be threatened, bullied, intimidated by these people for something that I know is just not right. I will be happy to present all of the emails, and all of the information in my possession in court and let the Law decide who is right and who is wrong. And whatever they decide I will abide by.

Thank you,
Scott J. Cotey

Wilomn

04-26-2004, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Flyride
I have personally saw pictures of the boa with a substantial kink in its neck and that points that the health of the animal was poor to begin with.

If you, jeff, have picture that we have not yet seen could you please post them here?

I'd sure like to see this kink you speak of.

thanks,
Wes Pollock

Flyride

04-26-2004, 04:10 PM

here it is but its a poor pic, I received this pic in an email asking me for care instructions and if they should be worried only 2 days after receiving.

j tyler

04-26-2004, 04:13 PM

This is case in which the exact cause of death ,if any, needs to be demonstrated. 1) It appeared alive and well; 2) It ate and ;3) It is claimed to have died suddenly. This being the case all accusations are meaningless until the cause of death is established. Otherwise this senerio will not make sense. James Tyler

Wilomn

04-26-2004, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Flyride
here it is but its a poor pic, I received this pic in an email asking me for care instructions and if they should be worried only 2 days after receiving.

This confirms that the mother is a liar. She said the snake was reiceved dead.

That injury could be from a multitude of causes- rough handling, mis-use of a hook, being closed in a cage door or top, etc., etc.

I am now smelling TUNA FISH big time.

Wonder mom do you have MORE pictures that you have not posted here? Time for that necropsy. If the snake died from an INJURY freezing will make NO difference to the outcome of that necropsy.

Shame about the snake, no matter what.

Wes Pollock

JJFOUTZ

04-26-2004, 04:35 PM

Must have been hard to get that mouse down with that kink in its neck.

E2MacPets

04-26-2004, 04:36 PM

When was this snake bought?

I just checked the date on the picture posted. It was taken on 4/2/04 at 11:14pm according to the Exif.

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maddog

04-26-2004, 04:44 PM

Cameron purchased snake.
Snake shipped to Anthony.
After 2 days and not handling the snake, when Anthony did handle him noticed the kinks.
Snake died Saturday, Cameron received the snake shortly after.
This is when Mrs. Gluhcheff contacted Scott.

Please take the time to go back through and read ALL posts before posting!

Oh, as to my creditablity, why don't we check ip address's today?

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 04:50 PM

"As you saw from Cam's email that Anthony did not hold the snake when it
arrived. After it had been at the house for two days he then noticed a bump "

That is from the email that Mrs.Gluhcheff sent to Scott. Well, the picture that Jeff posted was taken two days after the snake arrived, which would have been thursday(I have no reason to doubt what Jeff says, as he is a stand up member of quite a few forums I visit). The snake was then fed on either Thursday or Friday.
My question now is to Jeff. Upon seeing that picture did you suggest that maybe the snake should be looked at or treated, or did you suggest that maybe Mr. Marquez should try to feed it and see if it takes food? I don't know the story behind the finding of the "bump", so I am just trying to get some background.
I would think that someone who owns boas, and is accustomed to taking in shipments would have noticed a kink when it was taken out of the box, or at least when being placed in the tank.
To me the "bump" looks more like a "pinch", like a snake would get when trying to keep from being shut in say...a 20 gallon breeder tank.I have come close to smashing a few snake necks in my time closing lids on glass tanks, and when sliding tubs into racks. Thats what it looks like to me. I have also had a jack russel terrier take a snake from my hand when going into the backyard to take pictures, and it resulted in a similar injury. The skin was not broken , but you could see indentations. My snake ate three days later just fine. Two days later it was dead. I will see if i can find old pics of that.

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 04:54 PM

Dee...

You can not remove a snake from a shipping container without holding it. I am sorry, thats the way it is.
You also cant put it in a tank without holding it.
By holding I mean either with your hands, or tools designed for it.
If that snake wasnt held for two days, does that mean it was in the shipping box for two days?

E2MacPets

04-26-2004, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by maddog
Cameron purchased snake.
Snake shipped to Anthony.
After 2 days and not handling the snake, when Anthony did handle him noticed the kinks.
Snake died Saturday, Cameron received the snake shortly after.
This is when Mrs. Gluhcheff contacted Scott.

Please take the time to go back through and read ALL posts before posting!

Oh, as to my creditablity, why don't we check ip address's today?

Where is the time on this timeline, since you chosen to insult me.

I asked when this snake was purchased specifically because I knew the answer was not 4/2/04 when the picture of the snake was taken.

toadellen

04-26-2004, 05:01 PM

I too am a teacher of 14 years and the first thing you learn is that kids lie!!
Her son, IMOP, is the one who should be held responsible for whatesver happened to the snake after it's arrival. Let him suck up the $350.00 loss and maybe he won't be so quick try to put one over on mom again.
I have 7 kids(9-24) and THEY are held responsible for their actions and have been since an early age. NO WAY would I be theatening to sue over this. Oh boy, my son has a hangnail, I'll sue the store that sold me the nail clipper !!!! I think Judging Amy would have fun w/this mom!!
Rhoda Allen

maddog

04-26-2004, 05:04 PM

I did not state that he did not touch the snake, in handling I mean taking it out to look at, allow it to wrap around arm. Handling the snake as you need to so it becomes use to you. Also you should not handle a snake right away after being shipped. It needs to adjust, some down time. So Anthony did not handle the snake after recieving it, giving it a few days, then noticing it.

Sorry I do not have all the dates. I was not doing a dated timeline but from what has been written. As for the picture being taken on 4-2-04, who is to say Anthony did not have the date on his camera correct? I can not explain why that is the date on the picture.

JJFOUTZ

04-26-2004, 05:10 PM

Where is Anthony? It sounds to me like he is the only one who can answer these questions yet he is the only one involved that has not posted.

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 05:13 PM

Plain and simple, Anthony could not say that the snake was alive and doing great if he had not looked at it. You don't just say everything is fine, and expect to come back later and say that the condition was pre existing.
If it wasn't fine, he shouldn't have said it was.
If it was fine, what happened to it that caused this in those two days?

strayvoltage

04-26-2004, 05:16 PM

What the heck are you talking about! anyone who has had animals shipped to them and waits two days to inspect? seems odd huh? Also as soon as the post office finds out that Mrs. Special Ed. has filed a false report she may need that Daddy Of Hers!

Laura Fopiano

04-26-2004, 05:17 PM

The only show that this person could have attended would have been the WestCoast show in Victor Ville at the San Bernadino Fair grounds 4/24 and 4/25. Since the registured name is in Apple Valley that show would be right around the corner from them.

E2MacPets

04-26-2004, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by maddog
Sorry I do not have all the dates. I was not doing a dated timeline but from what has been written. As for the picture being taken on 4-2-04, who is to say Anthony did not have the date on his camera correct? I can not explain why that is the date on the picture.

Now this one is interesting.. the picture of the dead snake

It was taken 4/20/04 at 6:51pm

dead snake 003.jpg

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maddog

04-26-2004, 05:26 PM

Now this I can personally say is the wrong date and will check/correct the camera. I was there Saturday when Cameron brought the dead snake home and watched him take the pictures. So that picture I can DEFINITLY say was taken on 4-24-04, the time is correct.

Why must we be so degrading here? Mrs Gluhcheff does a job that MATTERs with children that are mentally challanged. Lets look at the facts, not judge the people who are involved!

Flyride

04-26-2004, 05:39 PM

Davie I never suggested to feed the animal I simply informed that I have a younger female that had a slight kink in her lower body from birth but after some time and the snake put some weight on it decipated and is unnoticable. I also informed to simply keep and eye on the snake for abnormal health behavior.

Now as to the whole handling issue everyone is dweling on I beleive anthony picked the snake out of its shipping box and being that it was not his and wanting to take good care of his friends snake placed it in its new temp home for a short while to relax and settle in. Like I said before he is a seasoned care giver and a good member to many forums and knows plain and well not to handle after shipment. Now maybe after two days and looking in at it through its glass noticed the kink.

Now the other teacher Mrs toadellen on this site that has numerous children claiming they lie you need to also remember this snake was never given to cam alive. He received it dead from the adult that it was shipped too. So please refrain from your immature comments about his age because like I said before the death of this animal has nothing to do with the purchasers age.

Personally Scooter J I believe you are a SCAMMER! Think about it everyone. To sell a Hypo db het ghost for only 350$ out of a personal collection there is something fishy. I believe that you knew about the kink and that is why you wanted to sell it so fast at such a low attractive price. And for this I will be sure to inform anyone I chat with inquiring about you how I feel.
To avoid the negetive impact this could have on you deem you are labled as a scammer you can post maybe an arial pic of the snake, im sure you took pix of it before you sent it to prove its overall health to protect you from accusations like this.

strayvoltage

04-26-2004, 05:52 PM

Fact#1 the snake arived ALIVE AND HEALTHY
Fact#2 Instead of contacting the seller about the lump/ dent
Your friends called someone else!
Fact#3 NO NECROPSY HAS BEEN DONE
Fact#4 your friends brought up that they had a retired DA in
the family, and also stated what they do for a living!
Fact#5 You and your friends continue to quote laws that
they are making up as they go along
Fact#6 They only want to post when they feel that they can
hurt someone
Fact#7 this educater does not teach integrity or she would not have tried to work this matter out with out mentioning minors and contract!
Fact#8It is illeagle to file a false report with the federal government!

Come on and list some facts for us Beside the one that state that the snake is dead OR the person who recieved the snake should show his face and post!!

Flyride

04-26-2004, 06:00 PM

Once again ill say it.
Buddy your facts are completely irrelivant when it comes to the health of the animal that is in question

Fact#4 your friends brought up that they had a retired DA in
the family, and also stated what they do for a living!
Fact#5 You and your friends continue to quote laws that
they are making up as they go along
Fact#6 They only want to post when they feel that they can
hurt someone
Fact#7 this educater does not teach integrity or she would not have tried to work this matter out with out mentioning minors and contract!
Fact#8It is illeagle to file a false report with the federal government!

that has nothing to do with a scammer selling someone a unhealthy animal.

And I never stated they were my friends just aquaintances from other forums.

Please before you instigate a fight further that does not include you look at the facts that actually matter in this situation. There is no need for everyones cheap shots and rude remarks. This is a site for inquiry and people needing help in moderation. And also if you want to prentend your the jury please look at both sides!

Hypo het ghost 450$ hmmmmmmmmmmm That is sometimes cheaper than the price of a normal hypo. This has scammer written all over it and you all are buying it by listening to the irrelivant age issue. And yes the puchaser should have got a necropsy performed however they may not have been aware being a new herper to what methods you have to take when dealing with a SCAMMER!!!!!!!

toadellen

04-26-2004, 06:01 PM

I said ALL children lie at some time. Yes, even mine have lied to me on occasion. Take away my mother of the year award.
You ask a class of kids where their homework is and you will get a boatload of lies starting in primary school. The ones I like best usually start w/"my mom..." and my response is"your mom is not in my classroom and not responsible for your actions" I teach 1st grade and yes I expect then to be responsible because obviously their parents don't.
I never made any comment on the age of Cam. I don't care exactly how old he is. But obviously old enough.
Rhoda Allen

Flyride

04-26-2004, 06:05 PM

And as for the other "facts"

Fact#1 the snake arived ALIVE AND HEALTHY
Fact#2 Instead of contacting the seller about the lump/ dent
Your friends called someone else!
Fact#3 NO NECROPSY HAS BEEN DONE

Like I mentioned before it was sent to another person other than the purchaser. Who may not have wanted to handle someone elses animal in fear they may harm it and be responcible. And about the kink it is not that persons place to contact the seller and have you ever thought maybe cam the purchaser wanted to see the aminal in person to see it for himself before contacting the seller. And like I said about the necropsy. Not everyone knows what exactly to do when ealing with SCAMMERS and the common instinct is to freeze tha animal.

So Mr Strayvoltage, your facts are irrelivant to this issue and please try to find another angle to make someone look like tha bad guy when in fact they are someone that was simply taken advantage of by a SCAMMER that wanted to unload a defective unhealthy animal!

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 06:07 PM

Thank you Jeff. I think you are the first person to confirm that Mr. Marquez is infact an adult, and that the snake was never sent to a minor.
As far as Scott being a scammer, I talk to Scott online nightly. He expressed an interest in some of my pastel boas, and we just kinda got to chatting and have been friends since. He talked to both myself and Randy about selling that dh ghost before he advertised it anywhere.The price of $450 (not 350) is what he paid for the snake. He was just trying to break even, as he no longer needed a DH Ghost having recently recieved One of Linda Hedgepeths (you may have seen his posts on the boa think tank). He no longer needed the DH ghost, so he sold it for what he paid for it. No scam at all.

Flyride

04-26-2004, 06:09 PM

Why must you dwell on that toadellen, Ok think about it. This animal was shipped to an ADULT seasoned caregiver who cared for it the whole time till it was deceased. At no time did cam come in contact with the animal while it was alive. So the problem that is standing which is that there is a dead animal and someone is responcible for it.

The age I will say again is not an issue and should not be refered to when it comes to the animals health!

Flyride

04-26-2004, 06:13 PM

Im sorry Davie I just feel something fishy about the db het for 450. I understand that is what he may have paid for it but what if he got burnt on it and just wanted to unload it.

I think the only way for this guy to clear the scammer stamp is if he posts a above picture of this snake proving no previous kink.

strayvoltage

04-26-2004, 06:15 PM

And I don"t agree that the price matters this past fall I was sold 3 two year old triple het striped corns for $100 because they did not fit into someones breeding program! also I ahve given away albino and het burmese that I did not need! I also don't think I would give a refund to anyone that had an animal shipped to a third party! I do think that the third party needs to come on here and state his side. It is really easy to threaten lawsuits. This whole deal Was cooked up by a proven lier Cameron! (reptibid TOS) a judge will love looking at these transcripts Just think of all the work we arer saving them! BTW where is that necropsy!

toadellen

04-26-2004, 06:21 PM

Cam made the arrangements to buy this snake and have it delivered to a different address than his own. He falsely represented himself, now mom is crying foul. It makes me wonder if there is a pattern here?
Rhoda Allen

Flyride

04-26-2004, 06:23 PM

Once again. The issue here is should the seller refund due to it being his fault or no. Cam making arrangements and what ever you feel about the mom is irrelivant. The problem i will repeat is there is a dead animal 5 day following delivery and just happens to have a defect.

E2MacPets

04-26-2004, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by Flyride
This animal was shipped to an ADULT seasoned caregiver who cared for it the whole time till it was deceased.

Your own words. An adult seasoned caregiver recieved it, confirmed that it was in perfect health, cared for it, and then delivered it deceased to Cam.

This is the only confirmed information we have. No other claim has been substantiated beyond that.

Flyride

04-26-2004, 06:28 PM

He never claimed it was in perfect health. 2 days later he sent cam pix of the kink so obviously it wasnt in perfect health.

strayvoltage

04-26-2004, 06:31 PM

"So Mr Strayvoltage, your facts are irrelivant to this issue" I just suggest you ask a lawyer about that brilliant statement.

Wilomn

04-26-2004, 06:31 PM

jeff, you seem to be missing the points that the snake was recieved in good shape. It was healthy and good looking enough to feed it. There was no warranty or guarentee, none, zip, zero.

Somewhere the snake was traumatized to the point that it died. There has not been a necropsy done. You would think with all of her connections in the education and law enforcement communities that wonder mom would know a good vet to send that snake to. And yet, she has not. Wonder why?

Perhaps she too is a liar, like her son. Perhaps she too knows what killed this snake and wants someone else to take the blame for her child. Perhaps.

There was no guarentee/warranty. The snake arrived alive and healthy.

Case closed.

Wes Pollock

TJEvans

04-26-2004, 06:35 PM

I don't want to join the argument, but the snake was actually $450, Cameron paid $350, and the mysterious Bruce paid $100.....

Also, Scott has already mentioned that he was selling this particular snake becuase he had received a replacement for it and no longer had a need for the DH. So, therefore, It's my estimation that since he's not in business and only a hobbyist, the price wasn't his main concern.

I understand your empathy for what happened, and the fact that you are personally familiar with Anthony, But there are more holes in what Cameron is saying than with what Scott is saying in my opinion.

Everybody has pointed out all of the facts in the case, so I will not beat a totally dead horse. The things I want to know are....

If age wasn't an issue, as has been pointed out by every party involved with Cameron, then why was this the basis for his mother's first threat?

Where and who is Bruce, and why hasn't he stepped forward to received his $100 back?

Why hasn't Anthony stepped up and told us what happened from the time he opened the box, given an account of the packaging, etc., and put to rest all of the hearsay in regards to what he did in the 5 days that the snake was in his care?

Hear's the way I see it in my own personal opinion......
Cameron's mother has been grabbing at straws for the entire thread. She's come up with threat after threat as to what she's going to have charged to Scott. First it's sellign to a minor, then it's a federal standard warranty on livestock, then it's a federal law about shipping reptiles via FedEx. The bottom line is that she's not happy that her son made a large purchase and received damaged goods (not sure when or how the goods got damaged) She may be a nice woman, trying to do the right thing, but these threats have taken it to the extreme. Bringing up the occupations of her father and husband to toot her own horn and give the impression that her threats actually have a leg to stand on. The truth is, she has NO legal standing in this case. EVerything she has said is a bluff, plain and simple. I can tell this because once one is disproven, she comes up with a new one.

FACT
Scott sold a boa for $450 to 2 individuals, a minor, and one assumed to not be a minor. Regardless, the boa was sent to an adult.

FACT
Scott shipped the animal via FedEX, a legal way of shipping animals. (notice I said LEGAL, not within policy)

FACT
There was no written or verbal guarantee given at the time of purchase, and an individual is not LEGALLY required to honor a guarantee if one was not provided.

FACT
The snake is now dead. There were no complaints made prior to the rightful owner receiving the boa. In fact, the initial recipient gave it a good bill of health. Even when he noticed a defect, he did NOT inform the rightful owner, nor the seller that shipped the animal to him.

Scott has nothing to worry about in my opinion. These threats are just to blow smoke up his ........and scare him into giving a refund. I say don't do it. Let them TRY to sue you.

One question I have for the peanut gallery......IF you had purchased a $450 boa constrictor, and had it delivered to a friends house to ensure that someone would be there to accept it.....would you not go there THAT NIGHT to claim it......I know I sure would.......

toadellen

04-26-2004, 06:39 PM

Steven,
You hit the nail on the head. We will probably never know what happened to the snake. I'm just so tired of the "sue crazy' mentality of some people.
There is also a long standing warning in sales(no offense meant to the seller)-BUYER BEWARE-seller too I guess!!!
Rhoda Allen

Sasheena

04-26-2004, 06:48 PM

AMEN Todd, thanks for the eloquence.

Rhoda, nice to know there's a fellow teacher on here. :) Nice also to know that you are in tune with reality. Kids do lie. Kids NEED to know that they should be responsible for their own actions. Teach em that and the world is theres. Neglect to teach them that and McDonalds....Burger King....service positions are theres. Maybe.

E2MacPets

04-26-2004, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by Flyride
He never claimed it was in perfect health. 2 days later he sent cam pix of the kink so obviously it wasnt in perfect health.

Two days is a long time to first notice a kink. Unless of course the kink was a result of physical trauma on that second day.

This animal was shipped to an ADULT seasoned caregiver who cared for it the whole time till it was deceased.

This adult seasoned caregiver informed the seller that the animal was recieved and in perfect condition. There were no qualms made by the adult seasoned caregiver for two whole days which of course is only documented by a picture dated 4/2/04 that was sent to Cam. At this point no one has contacted the seller.

Now why at 2 days was Cam not upset enough to contact the seller? Maybe because the adult seasoned caregiver emailed Cam and said, "I'm sorry what I did to your snake?"

Well when the day finally rolls around where adult seasoned caregiver delivers a deceased animal to Cam, what happens?

JJFOUTZ

04-26-2004, 07:09 PM

Why have we not herd from this adult seasoned caregiver?????

The BoidSmith

04-26-2004, 07:33 PM

Maybe I've got the wrong snake, but is this the snake that was shipped?

Thanks.

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 07:38 PM

Looks like the same one to me. Looks young in the pic though.

The BoidSmith

04-26-2004, 07:53 PM

This picture came from Reptibid. All I'm asking is if this picture adequately portrays the snake that was shipped.

Thanks.

ms_terese

04-26-2004, 07:57 PM

Let the parent sue, for heaven's sake.

Small claims court, she can go all the way to the originating state, and lose. It's ridiculous.

No one has shown ANY SHRED OF CIRCUMSTANCE, let alone evidence, that this animal was not 100% when received.

A vet was not contacted for a necropsy.

Apparently the mother doesn't feel her son is even remotely responsible for anything that transpired. Let her sue, and she can get a determination from an unbiased (and unrelated) legal authority.

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 07:59 PM

Scott will have to answer that, but the pics I have seen were all brighter in color,maybe in his more chill mode(since hypos tent to darken and lighten based on mood) but that is the same snake.

Sasheena

04-26-2004, 08:09 PM

I just lightened the pic and drew a sort of diagram of the first two bands (blotches??? what do they call them on a boa anyway?) Anyway, I'll attach it here. In the picture of the "kinked neck" the two markings are very clear.

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 08:13 PM

Yup, the saddles look alike.Nice diagram.

Scooter J

04-26-2004, 08:43 PM

the picture posted showing the boa and the diagram by Shasheena, sorry about spelling, was posted on reptibid, and also sent to Cameron. It is the boa, and all I can say is it was in perfect health. Questions have been raised by Flyride, or someone stating that $450 is too little to charge for a DH Ghost, well, that is exactly what I paid for the boa, I really didn't have him all that long, as I had received a Ghost from Linda Hedgepath, and no longer had a need for him. The boa had a very nice tail color but as you can see a lot of flecking so, I only charged what I paid. Why should I try to rip anyone off for more that what I paid only a short time ago. This whole situation is totally out of control. I sold a boa to a pair of businessmen, who passed themselves off as a business, Coast to Coast reptiles, sent the snake per their instructions to their friend and it was recieved in good health and doing great, and then 4-5 days later its dead. Now I don't know what happened, but the snake was perfectly alright when it left here, and perfectly alright when it got there. The mystery is what happened from Tuesday till Saturday, and why did it take so long for Cameron to get his snake from Anthony. I don't know what happened, and I don't know if it will ever be discovered, but my guess is that someone screwed up and I am being named as the scapegoat. Well, I have said it before and I will say it again, I will see Mrs. Glucheff in court and let them decide. I feel confident that something happened to this boa after it arrived in their possession, I can't prove it, but I sure would like to see some sort of Vet's report on cause of death.

Thank you,
Scott J. Cotey

hill4803

04-26-2004, 08:44 PM

I too am a teacher & get tired of all the lame excuses parents come up with. To Ashley G.:Why were you not aware of this transaction? And also I am an army vet & last time I checked the National Guard doesn't send units overseas.
To Cameron: Why didn't you get a look at this snake before Saturday if you were sooo excited about it? To "flyride": Why did you post a statement that this person "was an experienced herper" that frequents many forums, but later stated he sought your help instead of a vet about the neck kink because he is a novice? Which is it?
And not that it really has much to do with this issue...but since it was brought up, an ass't DA may know criminal law but isn't the person I would consult about tort & civil laws (Those are 1st year law school courses.)

Ro Hill

Scooter J

04-26-2004, 08:48 PM

Mrs. Glucheff is so adament about blaming me for everything that went wrong that she has stated she will incur whatever costs to get me for selling the boa to a minor. Well, if she wants the truth about the boas cause of death, why not take the same approach and have a Vet check the cause of death? I would really like to know what killed that snake.

Thanks,

Scott J. Cotey

ksshane

04-26-2004, 08:58 PM

I really dont like posting in these argumentative type posts, but I just wanted to point out that I purchased a yearling DH Ghost last year for 550.00 from Jimmy Horton.

So 450.00 really isnt that low.

Not that this should matter at all.

strayvoltage

04-26-2004, 09:03 PM

I Don't see you comming across as a bad guy! I feel that you have acted a a resonable adult! I wish you nothing but the best of luck!

I truly belive that someone or something killed there snake but that someone or something is not you! It seems to me that when a bad guy posts, threatening law suit or leagle actions, and claiming high powered family members it is a last resort of a desperate man, or women.

All they would have to do is provide a necropsy that proved what killed the snake! they can usually tell how long a problem would have had to exist to cause death!

Good luck to you! I hope that you never have to deal with these type of people again! Hopefully we will all remember these names and know who we can saftley deal with! I like you do no usually sell animals I generally trade with friends! or sell one or two by word of mouth! It is a shame that this has happened to you, as you seem to be an honest person (by your Posts) you offered to let a court handle this.

Randy T.

04-26-2004, 09:23 PM

I wanted to hop on here and apologize for the Mrs Special Ed comment, it was rude and I should have taken the time to reread the spelling of the last name and posted that way instead.

I also wanted to add if it is a physical trauma that caused the death to this animal then a vet can easily point this out. I again say that a vet visit is in order on the poor animal, and if the vet can show that the animal died from a pre existing condition then I will whole heartedly stand behind the request that Scott return the money to the purchaser. But I have a feeling that a vet visit will never be done, as I feel the accusing party knows more about the cause of death then they are leading onto know.

(also why wasn't the kink mentioned right from the beginning? It obviously was noticed and pointed out well before death.)

Later

HerpVenue

04-26-2004, 09:36 PM

The matter of the age is simply the sellers attempt to not refund the money and is a coward copout. HUH??? are you lost? If it was just about age he should refund. But it is not about age. It was the buyer who was making it about age. Perhaps a little reading would be nice.
Please do not quote me, respond in your own words and do not twist mine to work in your favor as you are notorious for. The quotes up there shows EXACTLY what I am responding to. What you are reading right now are my own words. I did not copy and paste them from somewhere else.
And please feel free to try to now bash me because I and many others dont care for this site yeah I make a habit of going to sites I do not care for.

what are you gonna do sit in from of your computer and discuss what you think about other people problems hahahahhaa have fun debating things having nothing to do to you. Anyone else see the irony in that statement. Specially after he himself "debated"

So come on Mrs Special Ed.. Get him to the vet..

See that is the little unnessisary comments im talking about.
Why not keep it clean?
.. I forget her name annnd only know she teaches special ed. So I call her that. I myself am in the military.....I do not see you on your white horse "rescuing" me from people who poke fun at my chosen profesion. But that is okay.

In order for a boa to die in 5 days there must have been an illness prior to shipping or injury durring. I agree with you 100%.
But you forget to mention that the new owner could have done something teribly wrong.
You also forgot to mention that a very sick and injured boa such as you described would not be eating.
Like I said before he is a seasoned care giver and a good member to many forums This seasoned caregiver wrote to you asking what to do. This seasoned caregiver also responded to the seller telling him everything was a okay

what are you gonna do sit in from of your computer and discuss what you think about other people problems hahahahhaa have fun debating things having nothing to do to you.
By the way after you posted the above quote.....you replied nine (9) more times ;)

To Mrs. Special Ed.....
I guess i will call you Mrs Teacher instead. Flyride might start crying

evermind I went back and dug up the name.............Mrs Gluhcheff

mad dog. you claim you are an adult.
Cameron's partner is also an adult.
The boa was sent to an adult.
So was the kid sold a boa without adult supervision? I think not.

Tell Mrs Gluhcheff ....that she is reaching for straws. Everytime her arguement gets shut down she comes up with a new one.

The boa is dead.
you sold to a minor.
California has warranty
EVERYONE at the show has a WARRANTY
Most states require a WARRANTY on pets.
You mailed it.
I knew about the boa, family friend knew aobut the boa, the partner knew about the boa. Anthony knew aobut the boa. EVERYONE here is an adult except for cameron. And you sold to him without adult supervision.

Someone stop the darn kids from buying candy at the store.
According to Mrs Teacher it is a crime.

HerpVenue

04-26-2004, 09:48 PM

By the way you kept saying age should not matter.
But you keep harping on the price.....he sold to cheap therefore he is a scammer.

Come on.

I had a hypo that had a striped tail I was selling for $1000
His hypo sister also had a striped tail I was selling for $750
their normal colored sibling had a striped tail I was selling for $200.
People kept telling me not to sell....They said if it was just the hypos that were striped.....then okay because hypos tend to stripe. But because of the fact that the normal sibling are also striped.....that I probably have some kind of genetics thing going on.

The total for all three would have been $1950.
Some guy bought all three shipped for $1000
That is half price. I guess that I too am a scammer.
All scammers ell their stuff half price.

maddog

04-26-2004, 09:53 PM

Question for Scott,
Would you like the snake to have an necropsy? Cameron has frozen it. I don't think the mother is going to be out any more money or have her son be out any more money to find out that the snake was sick when you sent it. So depending on why the snake died, will you be willing to pay this back and therefor resolve this issue?

And also I am an army vet & last time I checked the National Guard doesn't send units overseas.

Ro Hill, you stated this, why not look into it more before stating something like this. The 81st Brigade from Washington State was activated in November and delopyed to Iraq in March. It has been the first time since WWII that this has happened. Here is a site that may interest you:
http://81brigade.washingtonarmyguard.com/
The 1/185th unit is attached to this brigade that is located in San Bernardino, CA.

hill4803

04-26-2004, 09:59 PM

I always appreciated it when the national guard filled the sand bags for flooding...Hats off. Answer the rest of the questions!

Ro Hill

Wilomn

04-26-2004, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by maddog
Question for Scott,
Would you like the snake to have an necropsy? Cameron has frozen it. I don't think the mother is going to be out any more money or have her son be out any more money to find out that the snake was sick when you sent it. So depending on why the snake died, will you be willing to pay this back and therefor resolve this issue?

Dee unless you are in possesion of knowledge that the rest of us are not I cannot see how you KNOW this snake was sick when sent.

Most snakes DO NOT eat when they are sick.

Most snakes are not REPORTED AS RECIEVED HEALTHY when they are not.

Most snakes that have trauma like the shown by this snake have suffered it at the hands of the people keeping it, not the guy who had it a week before. Especially after the snake was OKed by the recipiant and sucessfully fed.

Do you know something we don't?

The mother or her son SHOULD not only have a necropsy done but should have NO problem paying for it.

Should it turn out that the snake was sick when it arrived then perhaps the seller should pay them for the necropsy as well as definately refunding the purchase price of the snake.

To say she won't get the necropsy done because she KNOWS it was sent sick is rediculous.

Get the necropsy done and end the debate!!!

Wes Pollock

ms_terese

04-26-2004, 10:03 PM

My guess is that the buyers are off this thread for good......either because the retired Ass't DA (or whomever Cam's grandfather is, didn't want to go back and check) told them to get off of it, or because they got backed into a corner.

However, that doesn't mean their mouthpiece won't still post.

Scott, I'd fall silent as well if I were you. If I've learned one thing in all my years, it's that threats are only warnings.....and Cam's mom was kind enough to warn you ALOT about being sued. You see, if I was going to sue someone, I wouldn't keep telling them how I'm going to sue them......or how I'm going to turn them in for federal crimes.....and how they can be fined $100,000. I would just file my paperwork without giving them the WARNINGS.

That's why the number of people who actually sue versus the number of people who THREATEN to sue is statistically insignificant. They're really just trying to intimidate people.

Teach your children well....

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 10:03 PM

"I don't think the mother is going to be out any more money or have her son be out any more money to find out that the snake was sick when you sent it. So depending on why the snake died, will you be willing to pay this back and therefor resolve this issue?
"

The mother wouldn't be out any money at all if her claim is legit. She could simply tack that on to the compensation she recieves in court right?lol
Of course, if she doesn't win, thats just that much more out of pocket. She plans to go to the full extent,wont take responsibility and wont back down, so I say charge it up. Take that snake to the best Vet there is, the most expensive out there, and sit back and wait for the certain victory in court.

CGluhcheff

04-26-2004, 10:05 PM

Scott, I would still like to see the email where I stated, "my business" or " our business" or even "my business partner". Saying partner does not refer to a business partner, now I know you are all old people and all, but have you never heard a young person say "howdy partner" or "hey partner" or anything of the sort???

ms_terese

04-26-2004, 10:09 PM

I know you are all old people That's cute.but have you never heard a young person say "howdy partner" or "hey partner" or anything of the sort??? Of course we have.

I know you're a child and all, but do you not understand that making that statement, then having 2 people send payment for one animal makes them partners in the purchase?

Scooter J

04-26-2004, 10:15 PM

I sent Cameron and Bruce several pictures for them to review in addition to the one posted on reptibid. These pictures were taken about a week or so before the snake shipped out. They had no questions from me at that time, the snake was healthy and eating at least two weeks prior to eating, and if it had severe neck trauma, why didn't it show up on those pictures? The trauma or whatever killed it happened after Anthony told me it was perfectly healthy and doing great. Something happened to that snake after delivery, I don't know what, and I can't prove it, but it is a shame that a healthy, beautiful boa is now dead. As far as paying for the vet bill to determine cause of death, no I wont' pay for it, why?, Well, what if the Vet says the snake died of neck trauma, well when did it happen. What if he says the snake baked or was frozen or whatever, when did all of this stuff happen? I sent a healthy boa and it arrived in good condition, I recieved a good report on its condition. I feel at this point unless they can prove that it had some killer disease prior to this shipment, then I will not pay for the bill. I have acted in a responsible manner, followed their instructions to the letter, and 4-5 days after recieving the boa, it dies, and now you want your money back. HOw do I know what happened from Tuesday through Saturday. This is just too much. Again, I will let the court decide and if they say I am wrong then I will live with it and follow the letter of the law. But I am not wrong and this is just some upset Mother's vendetta to pin this on me. She is trying to throw anything she can at me, and I haven't done anything wrong, except sell a snake to some dishonest people and I will never again sell anything to anyone without references. By the way, if it even matters to anyone, I did request any information on this coast to coast reptiles on this BOI, but no information came back. Therefore, I made, I now know, a wrongful assumption.

Thank You,

Scott J. Cotey

Scooter J

04-26-2004, 10:18 PM

Well, geez Cameron, let me think, you have an email named Coast to Coast reptiles, you have a partner in Maryland named Bruce and you are on the other coast in California, and you both paid for part of the boa. I don't know why I would think you were a business.

Scott J. Cotey

CGluhcheff

04-26-2004, 10:47 PM

You know Scott, I like the way you assume, but when you assume, you make an ass out of you and you make an ass out of me. Also, the pictures did not have angles to where you could see the kink. Otherwise, I would have noticed it. And, since I am a child I could not fully pay $450 so I had to borrow the rest of the money from a partner of mine. My other partners thought the snake looked really cool and that it would be worth the $450. I t seems easier for him to send the money directly to Scott instead of it being mailed twice, correct? What do you think of this, partner?

MarcAntony

04-26-2004, 10:51 PM

Add to database:

Persons to not EVER deal with (buyer or seller)

Jeff Johnson of Tampa
Dee Lawson (if that person really exists)
Cameron Kelly Gluhcheff (already a proven liar)(reptibid age TOS, remember?)
Mrs. Gluhcheff (a disgrace to the teaching community, and enabler for a disfunctional child)

The list could get longer...

CGluhcheff

04-26-2004, 10:56 PM

Thats funny, you say it like any of us would WANT to buy an animal from you or sell you an animal.

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 10:57 PM

Still holding out that "partners" last name and age huh partner?

hill4803

04-26-2004, 10:58 PM

I am asking in all seriousness...What grade are you in at school? You keep saying you are a child but I checked on some stuff & some really interesting information has come to light! I need to check a date but I think someone on here might be able to do that for me.

Ro Hill

GinoInDaBronx

04-26-2004, 10:58 PM

so, dee, you were staying with cameron and his mom?

ashley's husband, is stationed in iraq, right?

you conveniently dont list your age in your profile. but,
i am guessing that you are an adult, right?

do you often stay with married women when their
hubby's are out defending the country?

i think that i know now why little cameron wasn't
supervized while at the computer...

read into that what you want...

sincerely,

gino 'in da bronx' beniquez

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 10:59 PM

Not that it matters that we wont do business with you right? since you aren't in the business of buying or selling reptiles.

Wilomn

04-26-2004, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by CGluhcheff
since I am a child I could not fully pay $450 so I had to borrow the rest of the money from a partner of mine. My other partners thought the snake looked really cool and that it would be worth the $450. I t seems easier for him to send the money directly to Scott instead of it being mailed twice, correct?

Well, child, I think you are now acting like a smartass and that pretty well fits the impression I had of you judging by the way your mommy jumped in with the lies right from the get go.

You have in the above quote once again asserted that you had a partner or partners, alluding to the fact that you were a business.

Good going there child. Does mommy know you're playing on the computer again?

How about that necropsy? Your refusal to do that has Scott looking like a GOOD GUY that got taken advantage of by a SPOILED BRAT.

In some neighborhoods if you call the wrong guy partner you are not well pleased with the responce, to say the least.

Grow up and tell the truth, you know, get the necropsy. My guess is that if that snake was harboring some life ending illness and was proven to have it when it was sent to you that Scott would refund your money. He seems like a good guy that got a LOUSY buyer, or a lousy bunch of partners.

Wes Pollock

HerpVenue

04-26-2004, 11:07 PM

yo "partner" while it is true we are all old fogies.
you are not too convincing DAWG.
I considered California a place where people were down wit da times.

so stash it sonny.
what happened to your gag order your suit gave you?

so, dee, you were staying with cameron and his mom?

ashley's husband, is stationed in iraq, right?

you conveniently dont list your age in your profile. but,
i am guessing that you are an adult, right?

do you often stay with married women when their
hubby's are out defending the country?

i think that i know now why little cameron wasn't
supervized while at the computer...

read into that what you want...

sincerely,

gino 'in da bronx' beniquez

I guess I was not the only one to "read" the same thing. he could not ask camerons age because cameron was not their either.
I personally do not know too many people who are family friends who would log o to fight some kids battle for them.
The same family friend who knows WAAAY too much about twhat happened to the snaek from day one.......but yet claims it was sold to a kid without any adult supervision. The same family friend who basically states mommy would take a replacement snake

The snake is dead...... no warranty was given.....end of story.
No warranty has to be given.....end of story.
No laws stating he has to provide warranty .....end of story.
The snake was sold to a minor.......but a buch of adults knew about the sale..........end of story.
The snake was sent through fed ex which is not illegal.....end of story.
The receiver who is a "knowledgable caregiver" said the snake was fine.........end of story.

Any other arguements?

CGluhcheff

04-26-2004, 11:15 PM

Scott,
I am so sorry that you mother did not teach you anything about responsibility, honesty, morals or ethics. I guess it is too late in life for you to learn these now. These are the things that I am teaching Cam. I am also teaching him not to let people to take advantage of him and when this happens to fight for what is right.
The issue with the snake is not about the money but rather having you take resposibility for your actions. In the big sceme of my life $350.00 is less than one days wage and will not hurt me financially. I spent more on this having the dogs groomed. It is about pricipal and this is something that you have none of.
This will be my last statement to you or on the discussion board I have nothing to prove here. My day will come when we go to court.
Please remember that most of the people who are posting do not have the entire story. They also are uneducated or undereducated. An example of this is the retired vet. The National Guard makes up 65% of our miliary today. There job is to search houses, patrol the streets, recover vehicles, and to support the other units. Without the 6,500 people in my husbands unit who are currently in Iraq there would be civil unrest. This is also the first time since WW2 that the guard has been called to war. The government is in the process of calling up more units. This case will be decided in court by someone who is educated and a professional.
Please do not post my personal information online. I received a call from someone stating that they were the Army Chaplin and my husband had been killed outside of Bagdad. I called the Red Cross and they contacted him and had him call home. He is fine and safe at this point. This was very upsetting to myself and the children. I have called the phone company and put a block on my phone.
I will have enough respect for you not to post your information.

CGluhcheff

04-26-2004, 11:17 PM

You're right, end of discussion, now for it to be the real end of discussion, become a judge and move to where court will be held. Then I may give a damn about what you have to say. By the way, you guys should, "go grab a spoon....."

hill4803

04-26-2004, 11:31 PM

1st of all, I am NOT a RETIRED vet...and I too have my M.E.d , so be very careful about comments about "uneducated" people posting....the only uneducated person posting is the one not supervising the activities of her children! I hope you have an IEP for your parenting skills! Get the necropsy, post the results, take it to court, whatever...just do something to prove your son got the shaft or stop complaining about a deal your son had no business getting into!

Ro Hill

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 11:38 PM

Anyone else that is as uneducated as myself can feel free to fix anything I miss....

Scott,
I am so sorry that you (your) mother did not teach you anything about responsibility, honesty, morals or ethics. I guess it is too late in life for you to learn these now. These are the things that I am teaching Cam. I am also teaching him not to let people to(remove word"to" ) take advantage of him and when this happens to fight for what is right.
The issue with the snake is not about the money, but rather having you take respon sibility for your actions. In the big sch eme of my life $350.00 is less than one day' s wage and will not hurt me financially. I spent more on this having the dogs groomed. It is about pricipal, and this is something that you have none of.
This will be my last statement to you or on the discussion board . I have nothing to prove here. My day will come when we go to court.
Please remember that most of the people who are posting do not have the entire story. They also are uneducated or undereducated. An example of this is the retired vet. The National Guard makes up 65% of our miliary today. There(their) job is to search houses, patrol the streets, recover vehicles, and to support the other units. Without the 6,500 people in my husband' s unit who are currently in Iraq there would be civil unrest. This is also the first time since WW2 that the guard has been called to war. The government is in the process of calling up more units. (new paragraph, or delete) This case will be decided in court by someone who is educated and a professional.
Please do not post my personal information online. I received a call from someone stating that they were the Army Chaplin and my husband had been killed outside of Bagdad(Baghdad) . I called the Red Cross and they contacted him and had him call home. He is fine and safe at this point. This was very upsetting to myself and the children. I have called the phone company and put a block on my phone.
I will have enough respect for you not to post your information.

Oops, My pen is running out of ink. Someone take over.

Wilomn

04-26-2004, 11:41 PM

It seems that neither cameron nor his mother read the TOS here either.

They are both posting under the same user name.

MarcAntony

04-26-2004, 11:44 PM

Dave,

You beat me to it! I was also wondering why there were so many grammatical and spelling errors in a message from a supposed teacher. Something is not adding up, but I guess I'll leave it up to the more "educated" people to figure it out.

Bryan Rupert, R.Ph., M.S. (Pharmacology)

CGluhcheff

04-26-2004, 11:45 PM

Wow bud, you should be proud of yourself. You can make corrections!! You know how most people write on here? "how r u?" "i dunno" "gotcha" all of those are wrong too partner.

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 11:50 PM

Speaking of "partner". You are absolutely right about people taking the word and running with it with their assumptions.
Not all partners are in business together.Partner can mean many things.
I actually know a couple of guys named Cameron and Bruce who also call each other "partner", and I am 100% sure that neither of them would be in a reptile business.
If I remember correctly Bruce even said "I don't know how you can thleep with all thothe thlimy thnakes in your houthe ,Davey"

DaveyFig

04-26-2004, 11:58 PM

Most of the people using words like "gotcha,wanna, coulda, i dunno" aren't putting themselves on a pedestal and talking down to everyone here. When you start treating people like they are uneducated, you set yourself up to have your shortcomings pointed out, ma'am.

HerpVenue

04-27-2004, 12:05 AM

The National Guard makes up 65% of our miliary today. There job is to search houses, patrol the streets, recover vehicles, and to support the other units. .
Where does one get an MOS to do those things.
Sounds like a full time job.
I could have swor it ws one weekend amonth two weeks a year.
But what do I know. I am undereducated.

Without the 6,500 people in my husbands unit who are currently in Iraq there would be civil unrest
Well the 6,500 people are not there.
Must be hell over there.
I guess even the cops are to scared to come out.

morals and ethics and honesty?
could have sworn the arguement was about a dead snake.
or he sold to a minor.
or he did not provide a long enough warranty
or california has a warranty
or many other states have warranty laws for reptiles
or it was sent through the mail illegaly.

shoot when did this become about morals ethics and honesty?
definately not when your sond was responding as coast to coast reptiles and saying he had a partner.
Definately not about honesty when you said he sold to a minor without adult consent or supervision and yet we have all these adults that were involved from the very begginning.

Cameron paid for a live snake......he should have gotten a live snake.
But instead some anthony dude got the live snake and cameron got a dead one.

April Homich

04-27-2004, 12:05 AM

This is for Ashley - I really don't think that what your husband is doing has any bearing at all on what's happening here. It's unnecessary info.

I don't know if this question has been answered - maybe it has, or maybe it's just been asked multiple times with no valid response - If you didn't see the snake for 5 days, how do you know that it wasn't this Anthony person that harmed the snake? Do you have proof that would stand up in court? The burden of proof is on you, and I'm not seeing anything that would prove that a sick snake was sent.

If he's an expert keeper, why didn't he notice? Yes, handling them too much after shipping can be stressful, but in moving the snake from the shipping container to the tank there is time to look it over. I can't imagine not doing so when recieving a snake. There's also time when it's sitting in the tank. I would absolutely NOT email someone saying that an animal arrived healthy without knowing that it was. Would you? Does this make sense to you? Why are you not questioning Anthony further??? If you have, then could you please share what the conditions were that the snake was being kept in, i.e. heat source, tank/cage, etc? If anthony exists, is he aware of this thread?

You won't be able to prove anything about the snake being sick through a necropsy now. Once tissue is frozen it's very hard to diagnose much of anything regarding illnesses, but you may be able to see whether there was blunt trauma in the neck and whether that would have prevented it from eating (which would then highly suggest that the injury happened in Anthony's care).

I really don't think that you are going to court, but if you do, I've seen absolutely nothing on here that proves your case. Scott is innocent until proven guilty, and you can't prove when the snake was injured. The issue of your son being underage and not being able to enter into a contract has nothing to do with what happened. He falsely represented himself. End of issue. Judging by what's been presented, if you go to court, you will lose...
end of story.

HerpVenue

04-27-2004, 12:11 AM

Cameron...in the begginning you never used the word partner escept in an e-mail referring to bruce when you wanted things shipped to you...... You are overemphasizing.

And April
I forgot. You are absolutely right.
Burden of proof is on the accuser.
there is NO WAY tey can prove this snake was sent damaged.
In fact the e-mail stating the snake was fine would totally wipe out whatever proof they might have....but in this case they have none.

Flyride

04-27-2004, 12:27 AM

You know I swear this one conversation is starting to get blow out of purportion. It keeps movng away from the main problem, the fact that there is a dead animal and someone should be held responcible for it.

And as for MR MarcAnthony. You know what you posted about do not buy or sell to Jeff Johnson of Tampa, FL was way out of line, I have no involvment in this issue and are mearly stating my opinons and collection of facts according to this thread. Now if that should make it so were noone should buy or sell with me Im sorry you feel that way. And I really dont appriciate your statement!

DaveyFig

04-27-2004, 12:29 AM

I personally would buy from Jeff Johnson in a heartbeat. However, after my childish past few posts, I doubt that he would be willing to sell anything to me. I still think he is a good guy.

CGluhcheff

04-27-2004, 12:32 AM

Ritchie Luna,
I am glad that you understand your own limits and about being undereducated. I know that the word "activation" is hard and has a lot of letters in it. Maybe with some help you can look it up in the dictionary. The reason that the National Guard trains one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer is so when they are needed they can be called up to duty. If you ever either read a newspaper or turned on the TV news you would have heard this info. I guess those types of media are over your head. This is not something that they showed on the Simpson or Blind Date.
I also agree with you that this is something for the courts to decide- not ignorant people as yourself. That is why they require judges to have a Law License.
I am pretty unfront and will tell you exactly what it is I am doing. When I say that I am going to do something I will follow through on it. I do not make threats. Threats are for people who do not follow through on their word.
One thing about a forum like this is that you only get bits and pieces and not the entire story. You take the little info that you are given and make an uninformed opinion. Out of the 19 emails that Scott and I have sent each other how many have you seen? I know that they were not all posted- Scott only posted the ones that he felt supported his side of the issue. I hope that in the future you can learn to look at the big picture and not believe everything that someone tells you.
As for the part about what I do and what my husband does I emailed this to Scott. I know that there are a lot of people who pull scams and this was to show that we are both professionals and not some scam artist.
You do know that the local communtiy colleges offer classes. After reviewing your email that might be somehting you might want to look into. They have some very basic English class.
Ashley Gluhceff

DaveyFig

04-27-2004, 12:33 AM

Jeff, did you happen to see the picture that alvaro posted that was from the reptibid ad? That one wasn't from overhead, but clearly shows no kinks, and was taken just prior to the sale. I don't know if that is good enough for you, but it does show that the animal wasn't being ditched because of a flaw .

Flyride

04-27-2004, 12:35 AM

Davie, I have no problem with you at all, Your a good person. I was basically meaning it as a warnign because you never know who is reading and will read something the wrong way and form an impression of you because something unagreeable. And as you can see it must be happening to me because of my opinions not my professionalism.

Flyride

04-27-2004, 12:37 AM

I thought the same but the location of that kink I do not beleive would show well in that pic.

Scooter J

04-27-2004, 12:41 AM

AS far as the emails that I have posted, and only telling part of the story, well, I have posted those emails in defense of your slanderous, threatening, intimidating emails and accusations to me. I will save the real factual emails for court. And the whole story seems to be missing, but not from my end, but from yours. Have you ever even once considered the possibility that Anthony or your son may have accidentally done something that caused the death of the boa? No, that would be impossible, because obviously it is much easier to accuse me, why? Because I sold a snake to your son, a minor? Lady, this has gone far enough. I have had enough of your lip, your threats, your idiotic lack of logic. You do what you will, and I will as I have said before, see you in court. Whatever happens, I will abide by, but I know, with God as my witness, that that boa was sent in good health and was sold to your son in good faith. I will not let you continue to threaten me. Bring it on! Lets play the game and I will prevail as good always does over evil.

Thank You,
Scott J. Cotey

ms_terese

04-27-2004, 01:07 AM

Ashley,

You, as a teacher, should be ashamed of yourself for attempting to humiliate people for being "undereducated". For your information, English is not Mr. Luna's native language. Do you happen to be bilingual? Would you like to communicate in your second language and be ridiculed for it? What was it you said about uninformed opinions? I find your behavior repugnant.

Scott,

Stop reading this thread. Do not be baited.

Wilomn

04-27-2004, 01:12 AM

Heck Terese, Ritchie obviously understands english better than some peoples kids, hint hint there wondermom.

He may type a little slower than he thinks but he usually uses words in an understandable fashion.

Terese's right Scott. Just leave things be for now. Keep us posted if it goes any further but, I seriously doubt if it does the outcome will favor the boy and his mom who lie so well.

It really sucks that some folks are like this and hopefully you have now had your lifetime share of them.

Wes Pollock

DaveyFig

04-27-2004, 01:19 AM

Out of the 19 emails that Scott and I have sent each other how many have you seen?

I think this needs a little clarification, or maybe I am just reading too much into this.
Didn't you just become involved with the emails to Scott yesterday? Have you really sent 19 emails back and forth since then,or does that 19 Include the emails that you assisted Cameron in sending since before the sale?

ms_terese

04-27-2004, 01:24 AM

He may type a little slower than he thinks but he usually uses words in an understandable fashion. Of course you're correct, Wes.

Ritchie, I apologize. There was no need to attempt to defend you. You don't need defending.

I usually maintain a cool head on this forum. Somehow, Cam's & Ashley's posts (since they have the same logon name, I may be identifying the authors incorrectly on individual posts) have riled me. I should probably take the advice I gave to Scott, and give this thread a rest.

CGluhcheff

04-27-2004, 01:34 AM

Scott and Everyone,
I was not the one who posted the emails. They were sent to Scott personally and not as a forum. He is the one who posted them for everyone to read. I ask myself why would someone post these- especially when he only sent a partial view and not all of them. This reminds me of a child who gets in trouble at school and only tell his parents a partial picture to look good and as if he has done nothing wrong. He knows that if tells the entire picture then he will look back.Does this sound familiar? He is now saying that I am slandering him- grow up and take responsibility. You are a man and not a 15 year old child. I am not the one who posted this online- if anyone is doing the slandering it is Scott and he is doing this not only to me but to both Anthony and Cameron. I never would have put this on the forum becasue I felt that this was a personal issue. Scott once you posted it you opened it up. People should have a chance to see both sides. You are not the person out $350 for a sick snake. If things were reversed would you ask for your money back? Put yourself in Cameron's shoes and what would you do? How would you have handled it. Think about the original email that you sent me- you stated that the only way Cam would get his money back was to take you to court. Does this sound positive? Did you try to talk to me and work something out? NO Please share with everyone how you would have handled this if things were reversed. This could be very enlightening. Cameron and Anthony both say that they have done nothing wrong.
As to the person who is ESL you should not comment on things that you do not understand and do not have full knowledge about. Ignorance comes not from being an ESL person but not knowing the fact and not bettering yourself. It is one thing to listen it is another to get involved in something that you have no business in. We live in the United States and English is the language here. My father in law if from Bulgaria and reads and writes proper English. He is still very hard to understand because of his accent but when he writes it is in the proper form.
I guess when you are so self-rightious that is is okay to be repungnanat by someone elses behavior.
Ashley

Bobby Douglass

04-27-2004, 01:45 AM

This reminds me of a child who gets in trouble at school and only tell his parents a partial picture to look good and as if he has done nothing wrong. He knows that if tells the entire picture then he will look back.Does this sound familiar?

Yes, it sounds like what your son probably did.

Scooter J

04-27-2004, 01:52 AM

What would you do after recieving a threatening email like this?

Ashley Glucheffs Threats to me in a recent email!

It doesn't really matter if you have an attorney since this is a small
claims issue. Attorneys are not allowed in small claims court.Since Cameron
paid for the snake and sent the money order it does not make a difference
that you mailed it to Anthony but I am sure that your attorney told you
this. I have your home address and will make sure that the local Marshall
serves you the court papers. I will see you this summer in court. Since I am
the one filing the case against you I will set the date in July. You can
also expect me to get the proper paperwork for the Attorney Generals Office.
I am also going to contact the postal authorities since the check was mailed
as was the snake to see if there was some kind of Federal Offense. Please
have no doubt that I will not take this to the full extent of the law. I
will also contact your local newspaper and write a commentary as well as
posting this on the website. I want to ensure that you do not take advantage
of other minors.
You are an adult and you should be ashamed to have taken advantage of a
minor. You have made accusations about me trying to "scam" you but rest
assured I am a not that type of person and this will be addressed in court.
I teach at a local college part-time and am a full time Special Education
teacher, and my husband is a Master Sergeant who is currently serving in
Iraq. This is not about the money but about an adult who "scams' minors out
of their hard earned money. As a child advocate in my community it is my job
to protect children against people like.
In case you misplace any of my emails you will be able to view them on the
"Inquiry Board". I know that this is am appropriate forum since you posted
the emails there first.
You have replied to many of the issues but you did not reply to the one
about any "reputable" dealer would guarantee the snake for 7 days. Is there
some reason that you don't feel that this is an issue? Cam was at the local
reptile show this weekend and every dealer has a 7 day guarantee. I will
bring proof of this when I take you to court.
I would have Cameron file the court papers but as you know he is a minor and
cannot handle matters such as this. I am sure that in the long run that this
will cause you a lot more time a greif then it would have to refund my son
his money.
Ashley Gluhcheff

And this time I really do mean it, this will be the last post on this thread, have a nice day Mrs. "My son is right, no matter what, and you are wrong!, as I have continued to say, bring it, I will see you in court ma'am

Thank YOu,
Scott J. Cotey

Sasheena

04-27-2004, 01:56 AM

Wow, talk about repugnance!

As to the person who is ESL you should not comment on things that you do not understand and do not have full knowledge about. Ignorance comes not from being an ESL person but not knowing the fact and not bettering yourself.

What in the universe are you saying here? Are you saying that since Ritchie (who does NOT need to be defended) should not take a part in this argument because English is his second language???

It is one thing to listen it is another to get involved in something that you have no business in. We live in the United States and English is the language here. My father in law if from Bulgaria and reads and writes proper English. He is still very hard to understand because of his accent but when he writes it is in the proper form.

Well, my dear, it's a shame that YOU don't write perfect English either. So perhaps you shouldn't be involved either? Ritchie also reads and writes proper english. I have no idea about his accent. When I learned how to speak spanish, I focused on the accent first, and the grammar second. I was given good advice... no matter how good your grammar is, if you can't be understood when speaking, it won't be useful. So my grammar, in spanish, is atrocious. But I sure can be understood!

I guess when you are so self-rightious that is is okay to be repungnanat by someone elses behavior.

I won't even try to guess what you mean by this. You are a shameful example of an educator. I have many colleagues who have bad grammar, but they, at least, know the value of teaching a child to be responsible for his actions.

The reason people are taking Scott's side, for your information, is that you have never tried to present your case in any other manner than that of a bully with nothing to back you up but the fictitious muscle of your relatives.

Speak FACTS, provide PROOF, answer QUESTIONS, avoid NAME-CALLING, demonstrate PROFESSIONALISM, admit FAULT when fault is YOURS. Until then you have no credibility.

CGluhcheff

04-27-2004, 02:02 AM

Why is it that some are saying, "Get a necropsy done" while others are saying,"It's too late for one"? Can you make up your minds? PLEASE do ASAP so that we can decide whether or not to get one done. Thank you.

DaveyFig

04-27-2004, 02:08 AM

Get one done. It is the only way you can tell what caused the death. If it was an illness, it wont show.However if it is an injury caused after the snake arrived in perfect condition, it would show that.Since it isn't about money wouldn't it set your mind at ease to know if it happened after it arived alive and healthy? Burden of proof is still on you.

DaveyFig

04-27-2004, 02:11 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of the 19 emails that Scott and I have sent each other how many have you seen?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this needs a little clarification, or maybe I am just reading too much into this.
Didn't you just become involved with the emails to Scott yesterday? Have you really sent 19 emails back and forth since then,or does that 19 Include the emails that you assisted Cameron in sending since before the sale?

Stardust

04-27-2004, 02:19 AM

"Question for Scott,
Would you like the snake to have an necropsy? Cameron has frozen it. I don't think the mother is going to be out any more money or have her son be out any more money to find out that the snake was sick when you sent it. So depending on why the snake died, will you be willing to pay this back and therefor resolve this issue?"

This was posted by Dee about ten pages ago, and I am still wondering about it.
I am wondering if the mother had nothing to do with the sale and did not approve it, what money is she already out of? I do not understand how SHE can be out of any money as of yet?

Just wondering.

CGluhcheff

04-27-2004, 02:25 AM

DaveyFig

04-27-2004, 02:25 AM

Very good catch Rozann.Would you care to be my cocouncil?j/k I wont be representing Mr.Cotey, but in all honesty he wouldn't need representation.This wont be going to court, and if it does, Scott has kids that could put together a case to get this laughed out of the court. I would love to stay here and type some more, but I have to write up some paperwork for my own suit.
I will teach McDonalds to make me fat!!

Stardust

04-27-2004, 02:44 AM

"I trust Anthony 100% with my snakes and would still let him care for any of them while I was away."

This is the other teensie quote that is bothering me. Perhaps someone can clarify. This is a quote by "Cam" on I believe page 5.
You say snakes as in plural. Does Anthony take care of all your snakes? How many do you have? Does your Mother know of these other snakes? Does this mean that while you are not away, your snakes are kept at your house?
You have snakes but have not said what the temps are on the snakes. Do you visit your snakes often? How come you did not know a necropsy is done AFTER a snake dies?
You must have a good job to be able to buy these snake(s).

Again, just wondering. Please clarify.

CGluhcheff

04-27-2004, 02:57 AM

Yes, there were 19 emails between Scott and myself. This does not include any email between him and Cam! They were done through our personall accounts and not posted on a forum for everyone to see. They actually started on4/24/04 at 11:18 pm. This is a civil matter and will de decided in a civil court and not on a forum.
If I wanted to I could also have all of my friends stand up and defend me. They could also take everything out of context and twist it to fit their needs. So when you are well informed feel free to comment but at this point you know only the portion that Scott has chosen to share. Did he share his first THREAT where he was going to take me to the board of Inquiry (I emailed him back that I didn't know what the Board of Inquiry was)- NO. Or where he said that the I would have to take him to court because he wasn't resposible- NO. Does he share the email where he tell me that he has an attorney- NO and when I requested his address so I could forward the papers there does he send it to me -NO Does make you wonder how much you didn't see? He has no problem sharing my email to him but what about the ones he sent to me- Have you seen them? Or only small portions?
Scott if you are so interested in doing this in a public forum would you be willing to go on TV? I am more than willing to write or call both Judge Judy and Judge Joe Brown and see if we can get on their show. This would allow everyone to view it and get an accurate picture. It might be very enlightening. You can't get much better of a public forum than that!!
You posted my email to you but you forgot to comment on the question that if things were reversed how would you handle it. That is a valid question. It is also something that you should be willing to share with everyone. If Cam mailed you a snake and it had a kink and died in four days would you ask for your money back? If you bought a $350.00 pair of shoes and wore then for four days and they fell apart would you take them back?
I am willing to spit the cost of having the snake checked out and it is Cameron's fault I will not only give a a public apology but refund the money for your half of the test. But you would have to agree in writing that if the snake was sick and did not die from something Cam or Anthony did to it you refund all of Cam and Bruce's money and my share of the test. I would also expect a public apology. If you have a better solution feel free to share it!
When it comes to snakes and reptiles I am ignorant and I will admit it. I do not even know where to take the snake or what tests need to be done. I am sure that a reputable snake dealer will be able to help with this.
If you are so right and so sure of yourself you have nothing to lose. Am I right?
Sasheena- my comments to Richie was the fact that he talked about the National Guard and did not have any of his facts straight. I know that earlier on the forum he was given a website that talks about the deployment and the missions. Did he read it-No. Instead he went on about something he has no knowledge about- that is ignorance. The word repungnant came from Scott's email- like you I just twisted it to fit my needs. I was making a point and you obviously you didn't like it. I have yet to figure out how what you have to say in this matter is important. You are a third party who does not know the entire story. How many of the 19 emails have you seen and I don't mean quotes or pieces of them but he entire email. Do you always make an opinion without looking at the big picture?

Stardust

04-27-2004, 02:58 AM

Mrs. Gluhcheff,

I believe you are getting confused on the necropsies because if you were to have gotten one right after the death of the snake, and not put it in the freezer but in the fridge more could have been gained from a necropsy. As it stands now, somethings could still be gained by one, just not as much information as if it were done at the time of death or shortly thereafter. Hope this helps.
You could still get one to find out some things, which I would recommend.

CGluhcheff

04-27-2004, 03:16 AM

Stardust,
Cameron has a lot of animals. We live in a very large home and he keeps some of them- Snakes and geckos in his room. He lives on the other side of the house and has his own bed and bathroom so I do not have to see them on a daily basis (tha animals and not Cam). Yes, I know about them and I usually buy them for him. I also take him to the reptile shows. He tried to buy me a monitor lizard for my birthday. He said that I could keep it in my room, the office or the gameroom. I told him that it would think my dog was a big rat and eat it. I do not like snakes and I am afraid of them. Sometimes as parents we put aside our own issues for the good of our children. Cameron loves his snakes/lizards and takes good care of them. We keeps lights on then- he has them on a sensor. He also has a probe that check humidity and temp. It is also important for children to take resposibility for other living things. Yes, at first I was upset that he bought the snake but since he had purchased it with his own money it was his responsibility. We do not leave for more than a few days. I am planning a roda trip this summer and we are taking the camper so we can take some of Cameron's babies with us. He has made arrangements for the others.
I hope that this answers your questions.
Ashley

Stardust

04-27-2004, 03:28 AM

Ashley, (If I may)

Thank you for the replies and clarification.
Thank you also for a little info on you. I can relate to the mama bear wanting to get anyone who hurts her cub. I have had a similar (but different) situation with my girl losing a snake that I bought for her. I understand that your instincts and emotions are running high right now (as mine did).
I would suggest you leave this be for tonight. Get a good sleep and come back tomorrow with freshness. That way you can continue this with more of a logical reasoning than an emotional one. I am saying this in the nicest way I can.
From reading what I have read so far, I do not think that the seller was trying to scam anyone. Perhaps something happened in the shipping or something went terribly wrong within those four days. This is something that can possibly be figured out. Hopefully so.
I know going on this board with emotion running high is not the way to get people to help you out here. If you want co-operation here, please, take a step back and a good deep breath. I know this first hand as I cringe when I read some of my first postings on this board :)
I myself am going to take my own advice and get some sleep.
Good night.

dmacl

04-27-2004, 04:04 AM

I am a public school teacher and this makes me angry. As a teacher Mrs. Gluhcheff you should be especially sensitive to parents who make excuses for their children rather than teach them to be responsible for their own actions. Your son made a purchase without your approval. How is that in any way Scott's fault? Do not hold him responsible for a poor decision on your son's part. Your son showed his dishonesty when he made a purchase without your permission, permission that he should have gotten judging by your reaction. Do not excuse that behavior, hold him accountable. I guarantee that if one of my children did something like this I would thank him for the snake he just bought me and hope he figures out that he better discuss this kind of thing with his parents before he decides to do it again. It is my responsibility as a parent to know what my child is doing. It is not societies responsibility to keep track of him for me.

I think that it is interesting that those that are defending the Glucheff's are all saying what a "boa expert" the mysterious Anthony is. How can you use him as your expert to bolster your argument that he treated the snake well, then turn around ignore entirely the fact that he reported the snake as healthy when received. If he is indeed the expert that you say he is, then you should accept his claim to Scott that the snake was healthy when it arrived. And if you accept the claim of YOUR expert, then there is no discussion here.

What truly boggles the mind is why you are going after Scott. I have bought snakes and know others who have as well. The reality of buying snakes that have to be shipped is that anything more than a live arrival guarantee is butter. Live arrival is the norm, not the exception. Anthony says the snake was healthy when received. You say is was dead when you got it. Using these facts and a little inductive reasoning, Anthony should be held responsible for the snake.

Shame on you for harrassing Scott for something that you have not shown one bit of proof was his fault. It is time to put up or shut up. Either show proof that Scott was negligent in any way, legally not according to your value set, or leave him alone.

Darin MacLeod M.ed (still trying to figure out what all of these non-veterinary jobs and degrees have to do with this whole conversation :) )

j tyler

04-27-2004, 06:20 AM

This thread is going in the wrong direction, and some clear thinking is needed. Since nothing regarding the previous hypothesis has been established i.e. the possible cause of death(if that has indeed occured) I think pursuing a new angle on this situation is in order.

My hunch is that the entire story is a fabrication. When I was 15 if I bought a snake and it died there is no way I would have told my mommy and gotten her involved in the problem. Normal 15 year olds hide things like dead snakes from their parents. This got me thinking. Maybe the youths that are involved entered after the fact. What I think actually happened is that the mother, pretending to be one of the teenagers, bought the snake for herself. Her husband, who hates reptiles, discovered the poor animal and demanded an explanation. Guilty wife then blames the kids. Husband insists that the snake has 48 hours to be out of the house. Wife then concocts the story about the snake dying and tries to get a refund using the' teenager 'excuse. If you thnk about it this scenerio makes a lot of sense. And it would clear up some of the confusion. In the attempt to get at the Truth I think we should explore this line of reasoning. James Tyler

Ken Foose

04-27-2004, 06:39 AM

Well, time to wade in here. Scott sent a snake to what he thought was a business. As far as Scott was concerned, it was perfectly healthy. The snake is delivered to an adult, who has experience with snakes. He feeds the snake. Couple days later the snake dies. Now mom is mad. Why is mom mad? Because the snake died, or because her son bought it? Seems she approves of all his other pets way over on the other side of the house. I frankly don't see the issue of selling to a 15 year old kid. I know many 15 year olds that are buying animals on the net. I have many a repeat customer that is about that age. Scott had no warrenty on the animal, and the buyer never asked. There is no way Scott could control the snakes condition after it left his home. Did the snake get cooked, was the mouse too big, was it handled roughly? Only a vet could have told for sure. Now that the snake has been frozen, very valuable information has been lost. Any proof of disease before shipping is gone. Only physical problems can now be identified, nothing more. This thread keeps going in circles, but nothing is going to be resolved it seems. Here's my final opinion, for what it's worth.
There is no proof of a stated warranty. There is implication of a business (my parterner this, my partener that), plus the fact that they are using a "company name" instead of personal names (I sure would think of them as thinking they are a business). There is no proof of any kind that the snake was sent out sick. There is no proof that the snake is actually dead. There is no proof that Scott (and I have no clue who Scott is, by the way) knowingly shipped out a sick animal. Scott did not break any law by shipping the snake the way he did. There are no laws about warrenties on reptiles in any state that I know of (dogs, yes, herps, no). Scott, I would just drop the whole thing, and sleep easy. Let her take you to small claims. She can't win. Show up, tell the guy behind the bench your story (of course, she gets to go first, which is a plus in my book), which is that you legaly sold and shipped a snake to a supposed business, and you have no control over anything beyond that. She can't win. She has no proof, because she froze her proof. Let the young man handle his own problems. Mom needs to calm down, and step away from the whole issue. I read each and every post, and am confused. Who is calling others partener here, mom or the kid? Oh well, that's it. Scott, go, live, enjoy, and we should all just let this thread sink to the bottom, although it has been fun to read. It was getting a bit boring in here.

MarcAntony

04-27-2004, 09:04 AM

Ah, morning,

First a disclaimer; I don't know and haven't ever dealt with anyone involved in this transaction.
Second; an apology to Jeff Johnson. While reading your posts last night, it appeared as though you had made up your mind that a sick snake had been knowingly sent to an innocent, unsuspecting buyer. It looked as though you had tried, convicted, and were ready to sentence Scott. I may have read too much into it.
Third; At this point I'm not even sure who really exists on the buyer's end. I've seen a lot of names, some posting from the same IP, or on someone else's account. We have Special Ed teachers, we have husbands overseas in the military, fathers that are DA's, mysterious "partners". Not to mention at least 2 first names that are supposed to go with adults involved (Bruce and Anthony), that have yet to make a personel appearance. The more posts, the less things add up.
Fourth; Scott, I wouldn't sweat it. I don't think you will ever see this in court, but if you do, have everything saved to pursue damages related to false accusations. There still isn't any evidence of what killed this snake, or when it actually died.
Fifth; I have vowed to not post in this thread again, since I don't have any real information. I also feel as though there is "baiting" going on, which I unfortunately fell prey to ( I need to stop looking at the BOI when I am tired. LOL!!). Let's see if I can stick to this vow!.

Sasheena

04-27-2004, 09:30 AM

Rozann you are always such a good example to me. :)

Scott please excuse what I'm going to say, as given the "evidence" in this "court of public opinion", I believe you are fine. But I want to suggest a hypothetical situation....

Let's say Scott is the bad guy. He's not well-known on this site, he isn't everyone's Buddy, he COULD be the bad guy here, and the Gluhcheff's are the Good Guys. Hypothetically speaking.

The way the Board of Inquiry works, he would come here posting a "bad guy" thread on the Gluhcheff's (please pardon me if I'm getting the spelling wrong). His hope, as the bad guy, would be to discredit the Gluhcheffs before they could come here to discredit him.

So as a Bad Guy he has wracked up the points, hasn't he?

* He sold a snake to a minor
* He sold a sick, kinked, "too cheap" snake.
* He has stated he will NOT give satisfaction unless the courts tell him to.

Those seem to be his primary faults.

The biggest problem, in this scenario where the actual truth of the matter is that Scott was the bad guy, is that when the "good guys" the Gluhcheff's came online, they would not answer questions asked of them, they had friends post in their defense who stated that credibility wasn't necessary, following TOS wasn't necessary. They stated with supposed conviction about laws that didn't exist. They brought up their relatives as any good bully does (My dad is bigger than your dad and he'll beat you up). So if they are the good guys here, they did not handle themselves in the manner necessary to convincing those people in this public forum.

Now, because Scott was the professional one, answering questions and providing the sort of proof that is "required" here, he is currently ahead on this thread. He has more people pulling for him as the good guy and the Gluhcheff's as the "bad guy".

Yes, there were 19 emails between Scott and myself. This does not include any email between him and Cam! They were done through our personall accounts and not posted on a forum for everyone to see. They actually started on4/24/04 at 11:18 pm. This is a civil matter and will de decided in a civil court and not on a forum.

So you say he's a bad guy for not sharing those emails. Even though YOU have them too, that doesn't say anything about you? Come on... if he's a bad guy for not sharing them, then so are you.

If I wanted to I could also have all of my friends stand up and defend me. They could also take everything out of context and twist it to fit their needs. So when you are well informed feel free to comment but at this point you know only the portion that Scott has chosen to share.

You are correct, since YOU refuse to share anything from those emails, we are limited to what Scott is showing us. And I don't think anyone on this thread, except perhaps one or two people, have ever met or even know who Scott IS! we aren't his friends. We're just people presented information/evidence and who are making our minds up based on that information that is given to us.

Did he share his first THREAT where he was going to take me to the board of Inquiry (I emailed him back that I didn't know what the Board of Inquiry was) NO

Actually since he did bring it here, it wasn't a THREAT, it was a statement of intent which he followed through on.

Or where he said that the I would have to take him to court because he wasn't resposible- NO. Does he share the email where he tell me that he has an attorney- NO and when I requested his address so I could forward the papers there does he send it to me -NO

It sounds as though he weighed the provided evidence... his own knowledge of the health of the snake... the spoken "alls well" from the mysterious adult receiver, and decided that without further viable proof, he would not/could not in conscience give a refund.

Does make you wonder how much you didn't see? He has no problem sharing my email to him but what about the ones he sent to me- Have you seen them? Or only small portions?

You're the only one who can say that, but you never share them, so how am I to know. I don't wonder about every little detail in the lives of the people who post here, I just take what is posted and use that to make up MY MIND.

Scott....You posted my email to you but you forgot to comment on the question that if things were reversed how would you handle it. That is a valid question.

You are right, and if he chooses to respond, I think that he would respond to this. If I received a snake, had it sent to someone who knew about snakes, and they said "all is well" to the person shipping the snake, and then it showed up dead in my hands five days later, I would either go after the money from the person who got the snake shipped to them (unlikely) or in the interest of friendship I might let it pass and take my losses. I certainly wouldn't go after the seller of the snake if it arrived and was stated to be in perfect condition.

If Cam mailed you a snake and it had a kink and died in four days would you ask for your money back? If you bought a $350.00 pair of shoes and wore then for four days and they fell apart would you take them back?

The thing is that the seller knows the animal did NOT have a kink when he mailed it. THAT is precisely why he and most sellers of live animals over the internet cannot guarantee more than a live arrival. we have NO CONTROL over what is done with the animal once it is received and declared good. If you bought a pair of $350 shoes and then whacked them apart with a hatchet, would the manufacturer refund your money? I think not.

I am willing to spit the cost of having the snake checked out and it is Cameron's fault I will not only give a a public apology but refund the money for your half of the test. But you would have to agree in writing that if the snake was sick and did not die from something Cam or Anthony did to it you refund all of Cam and Bruce's money and my share of the test. I would also expect a public apology. If you have a better solution feel free to share it!

The problem is that any way to proove that the animal had a SICKNESS is gone, once you froze it. There are two things that a necropsy could show.... the animal had a defective-from-birth neck ... in which case this could not have been the cause of death, as I believe that the animal has lived this long without any problems, eating and so forth. OR the animal had an injury that happened during shipping (negated by the positive "he's fine" upon arrival) or that happened after. So as the snake was not ILL, as the cause of death is listed as a kinked neck ... I see the only way this could have happened is in the care of the receiver.

Sasheena- my comments to Richie was the fact that he talked about the National Guard and did not have any of his facts straight. I know that earlier on the forum he was given a website that talks about the deployment and the missions. Did he read it-No. Instead he went on about something he has no knowledge about- that is ignorance.

Ritchie is IN the military. When it comes to such things I consider him to be somewhat of an expert. When that isn't enough, I turn to my husband (ooh, using relatives, bad girl!) who served in the Navy.

The word repungnant came from Scott's email- like you I just twisted it to fit my needs.

The word is REPUGNANT. You misspelled it both times. Yet you get on others' cases for not having perfect and precise grammar. I'm sure there are typos in my message here.

I was making a point and you obviously you didn't like it. I have yet to figure out how what you have to say in this matter is important.

My opinion is important to me. Since this is a public forum, I choose to share it with the people here. So far I haven't been laughed out of here or treated as though my opinion is less or more than it is.

You are a third party who does not know the entire story. How many of the 19 emails have you seen and I don't mean quotes or pieces of them but he entire email. Do you always make an opinion without looking at the big picture?

Well let's see... I make an opinion based on the facts presented by BOTH SIDES. Since you haven't presented any facts, just been huffing and puffing and full of bluster! Scott on the other hand has presented facts and answered questions. Since YOU won't share the emails in question, I have to go with what he says.

And yes, I agree with everyone there IS nothing to really see here, it's like a merry go round with nothing new spewing forth, so I shall ENDEAVOUR to not continue to add fuel to the fire. Besides, hubby just found one of our escaped snakes ---ALIVE!!! --- in our swimming poool... yay! Gotta go take care of that before going to school to teach the next generation!

HerpVenue

04-27-2004, 10:14 AM

And as for MR MarcAnthony. You know what you posted about do not buy or sell to Jeff Johnson of Tampa, FL was way out of line, I have no involvment in this issue and are mearly stating my opinons and collection of facts according to this thread.Mark he does have a point. Nothing he has said makes it look like he is a bad guy. His opinions differ.....but I think it might be allowed.

I am glad that you understand your own limits and about being undereducated. I know that the word "activation" is hard and has a lot of letters in it. Maybe with some help you can look it up in the dictionary. The reason that the National Guard trains one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer is so when they are needed they can be called up to duty. If you ever either read a newspaper or turned on the TV news you would have heard this info. I guess those types of media are over your head. This is not something that they showed on the Simpson or Blind Date. Thank you for the valuable lesson on activation, and how the national guard can get activated. Being in the army....we do not get to know those things. going to IET with reserves and national guard we do not get to know those things. I never knew they can get activated. I never knew they were in Iraq....wow it is amazing the things you can learn. And to think....I never learned that from the numerous briefings the full bird or my CO has given me. I had to learn it from some teacher who thinks she is high and mighty......<---hope you sensed my sarcasm

And thanks for the tips on the classes.
When english is your second language......those classes could help. After all I only got as far as English 102. Actually I am a math person. Actually when you get to my level...they do not even call it math. They call it Calculus -3-4 and differential equations.
You do know that the local communtiy colleges offer classes. After reviewing your email that might be somehting you might want to look into. They have some very basic English class.What e-mail are you reffering too? I never sent you one. but as aforementioned thanks for the english class tips. But before you give tips....perhaps you can do spell check and puntuation checks. As someone pointed out with corrections to your post....you are not perfect either.
As for me I know the mistakes I make... I never claimed to be high and mighty.
therefore I am allowed to make mistakes

As to the person who is ESL you should not comment on things that you do not understand and do not have full knowledge about. Ignorance comes not from being an ESL person but not knowing the fact and not bettering yourself. It is one thing to listen it is another to get involved in something that you have no business in.As aforementioned I am so very sorry for making a comment on your husbands military career. I did so without knowing anything about the military. i should not comment on things I do not know about.
This is not a BDU I have on.
That is not the name Luna on the top of my right breast pocket.
that is not US army on my left breast pocket.
That is not the American flag on my right shoulder.
that is not a medical patch on my left.

Anyway if you read....
I said you made it seem like that is all they do.
You made it seem like it was their full time job to go picking up cars and doing house searches. You made it sound like they do it everyday. Then you go off to say without them your place would go to civil unrest. you again made it sound like your National Guard is fulltime active duty.

And as aforementioned....thank you again on the classes tip.
Speaking of self rightious. Perhaps you should do spell checks and grammar checks. Because yours is not perfect either.

Anyway this is about a dead snake that did not come with a warranty.....end of story.

To those who are wondering why I am on this thread.
I was asked to check out IP numbers on this thread.
then I decided to read a couple things.
then I realized I had to read everything.
the following quote sums up what I am doing here.
The reason people are taking Scott's side, for your information, is that you have never tried to present your case in any other manner than that of a bully with nothing to back you up but the fictitious muscle of your relatives.

Yes, at first I was upset that he bought the snake but since he had purchased it with his own money it was his responsibility. funny....I could have sworn you were asking for a refund because he sold to a minor.

Cameron has a lot of animals. We live in a very large home and he keeps some of them- Snakes and geckos in his room.One starts to wonder why he had it delivered to anthony and did not visit it until five days later.

If I wanted to I could also have all of my friends stand up and defend me. They could also take everything out of context and twist it to fit their needs. So when you are well informed feel free to comment but at this point you know only the portion that Scott has chosen to share.I have no clue who scott is.
Byt the way....isn't that mad dog the family friend posting anddefending you?
You are right...we only know the portion scott wants to share.
But you forgot to mention.....we also know the portion that you chose to share as well.

I see double standards... everyone has to have perfect grammar except you.
everyone needs to be educated on the subject matter before posting......except you.
Scott needs to share the whole story..........you don't

Sasheena- my comments to Richie was the fact that he talked about the National Guard and did not have any of his facts straight. I know that earlier on the forum he was given a website that talks about the deployment and the missions. Sorry that website was given to someone else. Someone who did not know that we had National Guard units in iraq. It was NOT given to me

Did he read it-No. Instead he went on about something he has no knowledge about- that is ignorance.Ignorance? I was basically stating the national guard does duty one weekend a month and two weeks a year. Why did I say this? Because you made it sound like their full time job is to do car recovery. roam the streets. search houses..... hey it is your post not mine.
I was merely responding to your post. I was merely trying to say that what you posted is not the national gurds full time job. Perhaps you need to read again.

CGluhcheff

04-27-2004, 10:22 AM

Scott,
You are the only person who didn't respond. I am still waitning for my answer to my questions. You don't need to post it here you can send it to my personal account.
I will see you this summer in the only court that counts. I will call Judge Judy and Judge Joe Brown today to see what I have to do to get on their shows with you. It will be fun.
PS You can all go to California State University, San Bernardino website next week. I am receiveing the Educational Leadership Award on April 20 at a big awards dinner. Cam will be there too I hope me makes the paper-again. He was front page in the High Desert Sun last Sunday at the repitle showin Victorville.
Ashley

HerpVenue

04-27-2004, 10:30 AM

Yeah my oicture was in the paper around here somewhere.

The Surgeon General and a bunch of other big wigs came to visit last week.
I helped give them a briefing.
I too will be getting awards for my involvment in the visit they had. I should have it sometie in June.

oh wait. what does that have to do with the thread?

HerpVenue

04-27-2004, 10:31 AM

He was front page in the High Desert Sun last Sunday at the repitle showin Victorville.

Oh the one where EACH AND EVERY SINGLE DEALER had a 7 day warranty?

ms_terese

04-27-2004, 10:56 AM

PS You can all go to California State University, San Bernardino website next week. I am receiveing the Educational Leadership Award on April 20 at a big awards dinner. April 20 was last week. You missed it.

bpc

04-27-2004, 11:10 AM

OK, I stopped reading after 35 some odd pages. Holy COW! This has got to be the fastest posting ever. As someone with over a decade's experience working w/ boas, that picture explains everything. That snake died from excessive heat. That is what is causing the fluid in the mouth. That is what is causing the wierd kink to the head. I've seen it dozens of times (I live in FL).

The snake arrived alive. It was delivered per instructions to someone other that the buyer. The animal died in their care. How can that be the fault of the seller???? You should have had the animal delivered to you. Or at the very least went and checked out the animal right after it arrived. Boas that are sick, especially sick enough to be dead in a few days, DO NOT EAT! Your friend killed that snake, plain and simple. I'm sorry you're out the money. But this is not the sellers fault. Talk to your friend.

strayvoltage

04-27-2004, 11:13 AM

Why don't you post the entire email chain! I'm sure someone could give you instructions, if you dont know the way to do it! Sorry about any grammer, or spelling errors! It has been almost fifteen years since I was in school! (my secretary generaly writes anything of importance as I have dyslexia!)

HerpVenue

04-27-2004, 11:18 AM

Say it again

That snake died from excessive heat. That is what is causing the fluid in the mouth. That is what is causing the wierd kink to the head. I've seen it dozens of times (I live in FL).

The snake arrived alive. It was delivered per instructions to someone other that the buyer. The animal died in their care. How can that be the fault of the seller???? You should have had the animal delivered to you. Or at the very least went and checked out the animal right after it arrived. Boas that are sick, especially sick enough to be dead in a few days, DO NOT EAT! Your friend killed that snake, plain and simple. I'm sorry you're out the money. But this is not the sellers fault. Talk to your friend.

Being an experienced herp keeper....
i wonder if you had to write anyone to come up with what you said.
probably not.
makes me wonder why the expereinced keeper was writing to someone on what to do.

Wilomn

04-27-2004, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Ritchie Luna
Say it again

Being an experienced herp keeper....
i wonder if you had to write anyone to come up with what you said.
probably not.
makes me wonder why the expereinced keeper was writing to someone on what to do.

This was on page 47 of this....... spectacle of stupidity.

It has been mentioned at least half a dozen times that snakes, especially boas, DO NOT EAT if they are so close to death that it comes for them within days of a big meal.

ANTHONY, where are you? What temp was that snakes hot spot? How was it set up? Show us a picture. What was the temp at the cool end of the cage? Was there a cool end of the cage or was the entire thing heated? What wattage bulb was used to heat it? Was it fed a mouse or a rat?

cameron, why did you wait so MANY days to go see your snake, if that really happened. I don't know many 15 year olds that could wait almost a week to see something they spent 350.00 on, especially something so cool as a new snake.

It's gone from smelling like tuna fish to Spanish Mackeral, one of the MOST pungent of the fishes.

The bloating shown in the picture along with the drool coming out of its mouth is indeed indicative of overheating. Big meal, too much heat, DEAD SNAKE.

Anthony, some facts, if you please.

Wes Pollock

Wilomn

04-27-2004, 11:38 AM

quote:
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That snake died from excessive heat. That is what is causing the fluid in the mouth. That is what is causing the wierd kink to the head. I've seen it dozens of times (I live in FL).

The snake arrived alive. It was delivered per instructions to someone other that the buyer. The animal died in their care. How can that be the fault of the seller???? You should have had the animal delivered to you. Or at the very least went and checked out the animal right after it arrived. Boas that are sick, especially sick enough to be dead in a few days, DO NOT EAT! Your friend killed that snake, plain and simple. I'm sorry you're out the money. But this is not the sellers fault. Talk to your friend.
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sorry, somehow I didn't get the quote right. Wonder if wondermom was one of my teachers.....

Wes Pollock

HerpVenue

04-27-2004, 12:03 PM

Anthony can be the most expereinced herp keeper on earth.

That does not prevent thermostats from malfunctioning.
Was it Jeremy Stone who lost over $100,000 in snakes due to thermostat malfunction/
I know I lost a bunch of Macklotts pythn eggs due to thermostat malfunction.

As a matter of fact the incubator I have right now has two thermostats on it.
It also has two thermometers. Unfortunately the thermometers are exactly the same kind of thermometer.

JJFOUTZ

04-27-2004, 12:04 PM

I agree, Anthony the adult seasoned keeper that had to ask Flyride what to do and is on so many forums is the only one that can say what actually happend between delivery and death. Obviously he would be drug into court over this anyway so why not come on here and clear everything up for everyone and possibly get everything hashed out here so that the court trip would not be necessary. This has gone on and on and everyone from Camerons side has spoken except for the only one that KNOWS what happened. Where is Anthony??????????

ms_terese

04-27-2004, 12:10 PM

Why would Anthony answer any questions? Why would this experienced keeper not immediately recommend a necropsy be done by an equally experienced reptile vet?

I'll tell you why:

He took possession of a snake, it died, he reported that it was the fault of the seller, and the buyers believe him. What could he POSSIBLY gain by answering any further questions?

I say let her sue. Just as Cameron needs to learn from this situation, so apparently does Ashley.

Sasheena

04-27-2004, 12:15 PM

Idiocy

All they want is to be on the "only court that matters"... judge judy ... LOL

I think that was their plan all along.... They want to get their idiocy in the paper.

I've been in the newspaper, heck I've even had an entire article written up about me in a European magazine. :) You guess which one. So WHAT???

Hey Scott, if they DO succeed in taking you to court, you may feel free to email me. I can take this whole thread and summarize it for you if you would like, so that the main points are all obvious. By the time this would possibly come to court I'll be on my summer vacation with time to spare. :)

Cheryl Marchek AKA JM

04-27-2004, 12:45 PM

Ah~ come on guys~ Leave them alone.

I like Judge Judy~ I'd love to see her rip this "Teacher" apart~

Leave them alone~ let her sue~

PLEASE tell us when it's gonna air!!

Wilomn

04-27-2004, 12:53 PM

I am not a fan of the TV shows such as judge judy and the ilk but, I have heard a rumor that I never persued before.

Is it true that she is NOT an actual judge? She and those TV judges are not able to sit in real courtrooms and judge actual trials?

If this is true then it lends that much more credence to the theory that attention seeking is wondermon's main goal. After all, if daddy is a DA or whatever he was one would think her RESPECT for the law would preclude her from tarnishing it by using such TV justice as these shows.

Next she'll want to be on Springer. I here he's ALL about facts and the truth too.

Wes Pollock

Cheryl Marchek AKA JM

04-27-2004, 12:59 PM

Actually~ I have no idea Wes. I listen to them as I do my work around here~ they are the kind of show you can wonder in and out of a room and not really miss anything you needed to keep track of the program. (I don't have time to sit down and listen to TV, but I get lonely if it's too quiet around here) I've never paid enough attention to tell if they are "Real" judges or not~ but I think they get paid to air their dirty laundry on TV and have to agree to abide by the ruling~ I *think*

Either way~ I think it would be funny to see super mom try to explain this one on national TV

Randy T.

04-27-2004, 01:54 PM

The national TV "stage" is a crock and shouldn't even be considered (I unfortunately have had to watch the Judge Judy show, and she has sided with the person who imo was guilty far too many times)

An actual court of law is the only stage I would even consider to take this whole debacle of a snake deal.

As far as the answer that you keep waiting for Mrs Glucheff (sp?) yes you should take the snake to a vet for a necropsy. You should also know that not taking the snake to get a vets trained opinion will ruin any chances you have for winning a case in a court of law.

j tyler

04-27-2004, 01:57 PM

I have told you people all along that this thread is based on complete fabrication. What real or sane person would threaten to call a Judge Judy or Judge Brown? What real or sane person would brag that their son has his own bathroom?...or that they spend 350$ on getting the dog groomed? etc. etc. etc. Come on. James Tyler

JungleHabitats

04-27-2004, 02:01 PM

Teacher mom wonderwoman who ever you are when you come out of that phone booth you have beside the computer,
Why on earth would you want to go on the hack judge show ... i mean come on i think you would have had more cooth then that you started out hell bent and bound to make a example of scott then you finsih up with wanting to go on what is the equal to Jerry Springer without T&A being flashed and people sleeping with their aunts uncles sisters midget brothers girlfriends brothers sister that is married to the father .Your straws have came up short now you seek the attention of such a well renowned judge as Judy or Joe!!! lol i bet your father that was this big bad DA or whatever he was /is wanted to be is in the process of disowning his daughter right now for her incoherient actions of wanting a TV judge to settle this traumatizing ordeal.

ok now ... if you have bought so many reptiles for lil Cam and you openly admit you have not a clue on them then why are you so pissed that his buddy killed his snake ?I mean if you bought him a reptile at a show and then 5 days later it died due to his friends caretaking wouldnt you blast the person you bought it from ? ohh no because you knew he bought that one , or you bought that one or well who knows who bought that one . what we do know is that the croc hunter anthony had a big hand in this snakes death and didnt want his rollmodel status tarnished by having to tell lil Cam he kileld his 450 snake he just got by not having a clue what he was doing ...

And when you take all his lil friends in that camper on vacation .. i hope they to dont over heat and die on you all while the camper is drudged all over the nation they do get AWFUL hot ya know. but still doesnt make sense why a woman who make the reptiles stay on the other end of the house cause of her admittedly not likeing them would want to sleep in a friggin RV with them smelly nasty vile critters ... they are going to really smell ya know , and i hope you map out petshops along your voyage , or are you going to take the needed food with you on this saga?

i would personally stick a boot in my sons but for not telling me what he did and for spending that kind of money ... what does he do that he has $350-$450 laying around in his room ? or if he has a bank account why didnt you know he did this ? just to many why comes in your story

Wilomn

04-27-2004, 02:46 PM

Hey Faithful Fauna Readers, I've got to come to wondermom's defence here for just half a minute.

Since there are for sure TWO and perhaps more people ALL using this user name it may be possible that sonny boy has said SOME of the really stupid things that have been posted here. Not to take away from wondermom, she has also said some REALLY stupid things but, with sooooooo many people using the same sign in name it's sort of hard to tell them apart all the time.

They don't believe the rules apply to them unless they have made them up, or so it seems since they have been CLUED in to this not being allowed. Oh well.

Still waiting to hear that the snake is at the vets.

Wes Pollock

ps, Anthony, where oh where are you, master of snake keepers?

strayvoltage

04-27-2004, 03:02 PM

It seems to most of us that your friends are the "SCAMMERS". Little Cam And His Mommy have had plenty of time to post the emails or bring Anthony here to rectify this situation! What kind of light does that shine on You! Oh thats right, youn don't feel that facts are relevent! BTW Mrs Special ED you need to try and Teach your Son! the proper way to do business! And spend more time learning what he is doing Instead of making Photo OPPs. Start with Integrety 101. You have seen that No one here cares about what your father did for a living. So that threat will no longer work! This is an open forum to post proof! I know that truth is not important to you, However if you go back and read older posts you will see that the tides change when Proof is shown!
Remember that a judge will only Make a judgement based on facts! Not based on "my little Boy said this." Also guess what a judge is going to need to talk to all three corespondents. Also since your little boy is not the only owner of this animal the other owner will have to show up in court! As well as Anthony! Guess what they both better be in court! Maybe someone should file creulity to animals charges against him, Cam, and the mystery Bruce! then the A.S.P.C.A will do the best Necropsy possible. Of course they will wonder Who Cooked the Snake! Get your Daddy to explain to you that LITTLE CAM IS ONE OF TWO OWNERS! and that the adult who informed the SELLER THAT THE SNAKE IN GREAT SHAPE ! better ALSO BE READY TO TESTIFY .

masterofpythons

04-27-2004, 03:37 PM

If I was you, I would not address this situation any further with the mom or son. If they want to sue, let them. People do this kind of stuff everyday. If they decide to sue you for $350, I can tell you it will cost them a heck of alot more in legal fees and time spent. Either way, it is a shame that boa is dead.

John E Dove

04-27-2004, 03:41 PM

It has taken me a couple of hours to read through all the posts in this thread and a couple of things have become obvious.
1. Scott a hobbyist sold a snake he no longer wanted to someone he believed to be a reptile business of some sort.
2. Cameron Kelly Gluhcheff et al misrepresented who they were.
3. The snake arrived at the address it was supposed to be sent to alive.
4. The snake was apparently healthy on arrival because it ate at the destination site.
5. The snake was left in the care of someone other than Cameron Kelly Gluhcheff the purchaser for an abnormal period of time before one of the purchasers could find the time to check on it.
6. The mother of Cameron Kelly Gluhcheff or Cameron Kelly Gluhcheff pretending to be mom is blowing hot air in an attempt to get the money back for this snake in spite of the fact she has made claims that the amount is trivial to her.
7. The receiver of the snake has never been clearly identified as anything more than someone that is supposed to know what they are doing.
8. The receiver of the snake does not have the intestinal fortitude to come here and explain what happened while the snake was in their care.
9. The Cameron Kelly Gluhcheff side has offered no evidence to support anything they have said.
10. There is some question as to the status of the snake because all of the pictures posted thus far have not shown a dead frozen snake but rather an injured snake that may or may not have regurgitated and the healthy snake before shipping.
All this makes me wonder what mom & child are not saying. Mom or Cameron Kelly Gluhcheff pretending to be mom is spouting off about crap like Judge Judy where they could only appear IF Scott would also agree to a circus trial. People cannot be forced onto those shows.
I believe that the Cameron Kelly Gluhcheff side is just blowing hot air in an attempt to get something for nothing. They would have no standing against Scott in a real court and they know it. If they really thought there was a case they would never have started spouting threats in the first place. People that really have a viable law suit make one or two offers to accept settlement then they take action.
My finding on this case is that Cameron Kelly Gluhcheff is a scammer.
gavel rap, Case Dismissed
Hmmm, I wonder if Cameron’s mom is really involved at all.
John E Dove