Justin Miller, AKA Blue Pumilio

[jasper408]

I ordered 2.1 Tylotriton yangi newts from Justin Miller (Blue Pumilio), and he shipped as planned for arrival on June 14th, 2013. What should have been a satisfying conclusion however, was instead a drawn-out ordeal. As promised, they were 2.1, and the order was technically fulfilled. However, the single female was (and is) in a horrible condition. She should not have been shipped, and especially not sold. Attached are the photos taken after opening the shipment.

She is missing and in the process of partially regenerating all the fingers on her left foreleg, with six fingers instead of the usual four in the front, five in the back, missing a finger on her right hindleg with no signs of regenerating, and worst of all, has either a genetic deformity or infection on/in her jaw. In addition, her lackluster orange coloration can of course be due to genetics, but can also be a sign of a newt that is not healthy. The lack of uniform color distribution however, causes me to lean more towards the latter. To put it into perspective, a healthy newt is pictured on his site: http://bluepumilio.com/store/images/Tylo.jpg

I immediately messaged him the details on Facebook, and also an email notifying him of the problem I encountered, hoping that he could do the right thing and either send a replacement or send a partial refund, but neither resolution had been entertained. I initially thought his sending of her was an overlooked mistake due to being busy, but I have yet to receive a response that even comes close to addressing the issue. I have been getting the busy excuse, but it has been 24 days since I first notified him. If he has the time to update his availability and reply to comments on his Facebook, a response to an email is definitely possible.

I am not too upset, since she was only 40 dollars and the two males I received were in good condition. However, palming off unwanted, unhealthy animals to customers should not be acceptable, and whether intentional or not, I feel that sufficient time has been given for at least the beginnings of a resolution, which has not happened. I will not be purchasing from him in the future due to the poor health of the animal, and the abysmal customer service. I also really hope that Justin was actually busy and not stalling in order to sell the remaining T. yangi he had.

Any possible future buyers should definitely look at individual pictures, and be willing to gamble that the animals are fine.
I wish you all the best of luck when purchasing online.

[kakiharae]

wow that sucks man. I had about the same experience from him.
i bought two leaf frogs he had on his web site he made me go through to pay as Paypal man so much better and safe with people like justin miller.

that was on june 6 th and i have yet to get anything back or really anything till I posted on dartden.com then this shit hits the fan with him.

http://dartden.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=7633

Still going back and fourth with him and no refund. Contact your bank for a refund as he will not and he is not a real business.
He is a drop shipper that stores and quarantines animals in his home then resells for me. He has no FWC licence and no permits. Total scammer.

Do not give him a dime and if you do Justin Miller will just delay and change his story over and over.

cheers all.
-andrew

[spawn]

Andrew, please take screenshots/remote host the images somewhere and link them. We cannot see the thread because it requires membership/for the viewer to be logged in.

[Fangthane]

Andrew, please take screenshots/remote host the images somewhere and link them.
That'd be a good way to get an infraction. Since that site doesn't require full names on posts, the OP would likely get dinged for 3rd party anonymous quotes if he posted screenshots. I learned that the hard way.

[glassy]

Justin Miller has vary in names from the past.

Intense Herpetoculture
We breed!

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 956
Name : Justyn Miller

Here's link to old account: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?u=1239

Here's a BOI Feedback thread with over 104 pages: (VERY SHADY past)

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97408&highlight=justyn&page=104

Last post was:

"This is an extremely old thread but Justyn recently popped up on a chameleon forum after a three year hiatus (http://www.chameleonforums.com/chama...fefferi-70473/). When I saw his post, I seemed to recall a large fauna thread about some of his dealings that I didn't recall had ever been resolved on the forum. After searching, I found this thread and started to recall more of the details. At any rate, since she has decided to pop up again in the community, I thought it was a good time to pull this thread back up and ask if any of the issues in it were ever resolved.

Chris"

From Chris Anderson.


If you look up "justyn" Or Intense Herpetoculture it will bring you Justin Miller to full display of his problems within the reptile community.

He also had a big dispute with AL Cortiz :
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107671&page=42&highlight=justyn

Current facebook and new name :
https://www.facebook.com/BluePumilio?ref=br_tf

Justin Miller --New company name: Blue Pumilio

[glassy]

Justin Miller has vary in names from the past.

Intense Herpetoculture
We breed!

Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 956
Name : Justyn Miller

Here's link to old account: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/member.php?u=1239

Here's a BOI Feedback thread with over 104 pages: (VERY SHADY past)

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97408&highlight=justyn&page=104

Last post was:

"This is an extremely old thread but Justyn recently popped up on a chameleon forum after a three year hiatus (http://www.chameleonforums.com/chama...fefferi-70473/). When I saw his post, I seemed to recall a large fauna thread about some of his dealings that I didn't recall had ever been resolved on the forum. After searching, I found this thread and started to recall more of the details. At any rate, since she has decided to pop up again in the community, I thought it was a good time to pull this thread back up and ask if any of the issues in it were ever resolved.

Chris"

From Chris Anderson.


If you look up "justyn" Or Intense Herpetoculture it will bring you Justin Miller to full display of his problems within the reptile community.

He also had a big dispute with AL Cortiz :
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107671&page=42&highlight=justyn

Current facebook and new name :
https://www.facebook.com/BluePumilio?ref=br_tf

Justin Miller --New company name: Blue Pumilio

[glassy]

OPS DOUBLE POST! SORRY LAG :)

[jasper408]

Thank you.

He also seems to have a somewhat good reputation on dendroboard... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/vendor-feedback/92336-blue_pumilio-justin-m.html I do not know why he is so noble in conflict resolution there, and can only guess that he feels that he can get away with it elsewhere while still doing business there, with none the wiser. :rolleyes_

[Scott Richardson]

Thank you.

He also seems to have a somewhat good reputation on dendroboard... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/vendor-feedback/92336-blue_pumilio-justin-m.html I do not know why he is so noble in conflict resolution there, and can only guess that he feels that he can get away with it elsewhere while still doing business there, with none the wiser. :rolleyes_

Jasper,
He is protected on Dendroboard. I was threatened by a mod named Scott on Dendroboard with an infraction if I spoke ill of Justin. Scott said Justin was a good source of frogs, and made some mistakes in the past. There is negative feedback on Dendroboard for Justin now, but Scott will delete it when he sees it. They want to make it look like a past issue. I informed him of a conversation I had with a member and he again threatened me with a ban this time if I didn't give him the name of the member. I took the 2 week ban. He doesn't need to harass the other member. He said I was slandering Justin. And he wanted the name of the person I talked to. Well, for one, it was in a private message, and for two, I never used Justin's name. He did. It was never in public. He doesn't need to speak with the other member, there are enough recent complaints to read.
What it really comes down to is there is a group on Dendroboard that care more about getting rare frogs imported for them and less about members of the hobby being harmed. Until it happens to them. We aren't oblivious to what he does, we just have our comments deleted so you don't see them

[kouneli]

To be honest, I have not participated on Dendroboard (been a few times, but just to look around). Is Scott just a mod, not administrator/owner? Is there any way that you can show proof to the owner of the rogue mod? This is definitely not right. If I was the owner of that website, I would have Scott banned for abusing moderator privileges.

[Scott Richardson]

Dendroboard was bought out by vertical scope. I reported him to the admin several times and supplied proof. We will see if anything happens

[kouneli]

Good luck.
Also hope you can get compensated for that female.

[jasper408]

Thank you very much. That was a very insightful... How very unfortunate. That explains how he is still able to do business while sporting a not-so-good rating here under another alias.

[Scott85730]

First - you have to consider if Scott Richardson is telling the truth - or at least the full story. I'm telling you he isn't sharing the full story.

Justin - has screwed up. Scott R gave me the line of "He's screwed someone out of $1,000!". It's my job as a Mod to investigate this. Not to cover it up, not to do anything else - until I find the truth.

So I asked Scott R to please give me the name of person who was "screwed" out of $1,000. He refused. If you're not going to give me the full story - do not give me any part of the story - because I will pursue the full story (again, it's my job).

It IS slander/misinformation - if it's only rumor. You need to have a name attached to the information to make it real.

What Scott R was banned for - was not "speaking ill will" of Justin. Scott was banned for posting personal communications (between he and I) on Dendroboard. This is expressly not allowed. He might eventually have gotten a light tap on the wrist for not sharing the full story - but he received a much longer ban for sharing private information.

I finally got the name of the person involved and no, he wasn't screwed out of $1,000, He wasn't exactly perfectly satisfied (but he is now if you check with him), but he wasn't "screwed".

Nobody at DB is protecting Justin. I know of one Mod who has bought anything to do with him, and that was having Justin hand pick frogs from Strictly Reptiles. So it wasn't actually a sale - the Mod paid Strictly Reptile directly.

It is my job to investigate anything like this that comes along. I take it seriously. Just is an acquaintance of mine, and personally, I think he's a nice guy. But if he had screwed someone out of $1,000 - he would be banned on DB (and I would be working hard trying to get someone their money back).

I also investigated two other stories that popped up while I was investigating the first story - and there was not a whole lot of truth to them either.

Now - Justin has a past. He surely would've been better off expressing that early on - rather than letting it be found out. He understands he needs to do a better job of doing exactly what he says he's going to do - and that has been expressed, strongly, to him.

I don't care about rare frogs. The only "rare" frogs I have are from Understory Enterprises and strictly legitimate.

I do care about the truth.

Scott
DB Moderator
Tucson, AZ

[Scott85730]

The entire story has already been shared with Owners/Administrators - there is nothing more to share. Honestly.

The entire conversation between Scott R and I is in the Administration area of DB - for all to see.

s
To be honest, I have not participated on Dendroboard (been a few times, but just to look around). Is Scott just a mod, not administrator/owner? Is there any way that you can show proof to the owner of the rogue mod? This is definitely not right. If I was the owner of that website, I would have Scott banned for abusing moderator privileges.

[Lucille]

It is my job to investigate anything like this that comes along. I take it seriously. Just is an acquaintance of mine, and personally, I think he's a nice guy. But if he had screwed someone out of $1,000 - he would be banned on DB (and I would be working hard trying to get someone their money back).



Really, you are judge, jury, and hangman? What credentials do you have to investigate 'rumors' and decide who is right and who is wrong? If you ban someone because they allegedly screwed someone else, and you are wrong, what then?

[Lucille]

And if there is a business complaint about someone and you 'investigate' and DON'T ban them, you could be seen as warranting that their business practices are OK and that it is safe to do business with them. That's a lot of liability if you are wrong, don't you think?

[Scott85730]

Actually Lucille - just like any other moderation team, we have a group of people looking at issues like this.

It's also why we try to document them as fully as possible - so we have a full trail of what has transpired.

I talked to the individuals involved personally (ok, via email) - and reported back to the moderation team (of which I'm part of).

We can make these decisions individually or as a group, but all decisions past muster within the group of moderators.

Just like here I suppose.

Have a good evening.

s
Really, you are judge, jury, and hangman? What credentials do you have to investigate 'rumors' and decide who is right and who is wrong? If you ban someone because they allegedly screwed someone else, and you are wrong, what then?

[Lucille]

Just like here I suppose.



No. To be sure, there ARE rules here,and one can be banned for violation of those rules, but the mods here in their moderator capacity do not judge guilt or innocence in business transactions, nor do they ban those who may be guilty of business transgressions if they obey the site rules.

I do not think that what you are doing is appropriate and I believe you may incur significant personal liability for making those kinds of decisions.

[Scott85730]

Well, we've been doing it for many many years, and we mostly get it right.

Sorry you don't agree.

s
No. To be sure, there ARE rules here,and one can be banned for violation of those rules, but the mods here in their moderator capacity do not judge guilt or innocence in business transactions, nor do they ban those who may be guilty of business transgressions if they obey the site rules.

I do not think that what you are doing is appropriate and I believe you may incur significant personal liability for making those kinds of decisions.

[Lucille]

we mostly get it right.


And that is based on what feedback? From those who on your site who you can ban? How valid is that?

Obviously there is lots of disagreement with the results of your investigation of someone you are saying is a
'nice guy' and who you imply is innocent of screwing someone (because he is not banned), there are those here who seem to disagree.

[kerrek]

First - you have to consider if Scott Richardson is telling the truth - or at least the full story. I'm telling you he isn't sharing the full story.

Justin - has screwed up. Scott R gave me the line of "He's screwed someone out of $1,000!". It's my job as a Mod to investigate this. Not to cover it up, not to do anything else - until I find the truth.

So I asked Scott R to please give me the name of person who was "screwed" out of $1,000. He refused. If you're not going to give me the full story - do not give me any part of the story - because I will pursue the full story (again, it's my job).

It IS slander/misinformation - if it's only rumor. You need to have a name attached to the information to make it real.

What Scott R was banned for - was not "speaking ill will" of Justin. Scott was banned for posting personal communications (between he and I) on Dendroboard. This is expressly not allowed. He might eventually have gotten a light tap on the wrist for not sharing the full story - but he received a much longer ban for sharing private information.

I finally got the name of the person involved and no, he wasn't screwed out of $1,000, He wasn't exactly perfectly satisfied (but he is now if you check with him), but he wasn't "screwed".

Nobody at DB is protecting Justin. I know of one Mod who has bought anything to do with him, and that was having Justin hand pick frogs from Strictly Reptiles. So it wasn't actually a sale - the Mod paid Strictly Reptile directly.

It is my job to investigate anything like this that comes along. I take it seriously. Just is an acquaintance of mine, and personally, I think he's a nice guy. But if he had screwed someone out of $1,000 - he would be banned on DB (and I would be working hard trying to get someone their money back).
I also investigated two other stories that popped up while I was investigating the first story - and there was not a whole lot of truth to them either.

Now - Justin has a past. He surely would've been better off expressing that early on - rather than letting it be found out. He understands he needs to do a better job of doing exactly what he says he's going to do - and that has been expressed, strongly, to him.

I don't care about rare frogs. The only "rare" frogs I have are from Understory Enterprises and strictly legitimate.

I do care about the truth.

Scott
DB Moderator
Tucson, AZ

So as long as it is under $1000 its ok to screw somebody? What exactly is the dollar limit on Dendroboard for screwing people and not getting banned? What do you think of how he treated the OP in this thread? It's only $40 so I guess that's not bad?

[Scott85730]

If the OP would like to contact me on DB - I'll be happy to help him any way I can. As I mentioned - I looked into two other people.

I am here mainly to address ScottR's post but if the OP would like to PM me on Dendroboard I'll happily look into any issue he had.

Have a good evening.

s
So as long as it is under $1000 its ok to screw somebody? What exactly is the dollar limit on Dendroboard for screwing people and not getting banned? What do you think of how he treated the OP in this thread? It's only $40 so I guess that's not bad?

[Lucille]

but if the OP would like to PM me on Dendroboard


Scott was banned for posting personal communications (between he and I) on Dendroboard. This is expressly not allowed.

The problem with these 'back room deals' is that others, including future buyers, are left out in the cold. You are inviting the OP to talk to you yet saying that he is expressly not allowed to post the content of that conversation as per your rules.

That means that it is possible that something might be done (or might not) but that others who might save themselves money and aggravation by hearing about all of this and judging for themselves whether they want to do business with Justin will not have that information exchanged in this secret meeting.

That makes this system elitist. Instead of each side presenting and posting information and allowing readers to decide as is done here, the 'secret meeting' process is in effect saying that readers don't have enough smarts to decide for themselves, that the Dendroboard mods will decide for them.

I myself think that readers here have both the intelligence and the incentive to read carefully and choose what is in their own best interests as far as deciding who to do business with.

[Scott Richardson]

If I am leaving out part of the story, I am giving my permission to post the private messages from DB here.
The funny thing is, As he said, Scott had me banned for good for posting the private message he sent me in public. The reason for the ban was defaming a mod. They were his words. How is that defaming? If his words speaking of Justin being a good source made him look bad, that is his problem. The original ban was two weeks for speaking ill of Justin.
It was stated that he found out who I talked to. He did read my PMs to find a member on DB I talked to about Justin, but the person I referred to was on another board. Justin sells on several boards. Check the archnid and snake forums for bad dealings as well.

Yes, It is ok for him to go into other members PMs, but not for members to share their PMs in public. ACTUALLY, people post PMs all the time. It is only an issue when it is a Mods PM threatening you for speaking ill of their source for rare frogs?

[spawn]

Wait the mods on dendroboard have access to read your PM's???

[Scott Richardson]

Yes. Read the User agreement over there.

[Lucille]

Yes, It is ok for him to go into other members PMs, but not for members to share their PMs in public. ACTUALLY, people post PMs all the time. It is only an issue when it is a Mods PM threatening you for speaking ill of their source for rare frogs?

If that is true, if there is spying and controlling, that is sickening. If it is true, why put up with garbage like that? Not worth it. I don't see why you guys don't just come over here and advertise and talk about your frogs.

[Scott Richardson]

I am done there. It wasn't always the site it is now. There used to be a feedback section. There still is, but there is a NO NEGATIVE FEEDBACK rule.
You are not allowed to mention any other forum in public posts or PMs. That is a violation of the user agreement. I always thought that odd. Who would know if I mentioned one in a PM. It made sense when a mod told me my PMs could be read.
Because of this, alot of people over there aren't aware of other forums.

[spawn]

I am done there. It wasn't always the site it is now. There used to be a feedback section. There still is, but there is a NO NEGATIVE FEEDBACK rule.
You are not allowed to mention any other forum in public posts or PMs. That is a violation of the user agreement. I always thought that odd. Who would know if I mentioned one in a PM. It made sense when a mod told me my PMs could be read.
Because of this, alot of people over there aren't aware of other forums.

Is this a change you propose happened because of the Vertical Scope buyout? Or was this type of change in effect prior to it?

[Scott Richardson]

No. That policy was changed prior to vertical scope. The only real affect I see with the Vertical Scope buyout of Dendroboard is lack of oversight of mods. Granted, Kyle let them do whatever, which is why it is like it is. And why Jasper made the comment about Justin's reputation on Dendroboard. And I commented with some insight.

[kakiharae]

after this incident with this child i had some info pulled on him.

he is 22 and live at home. No degree in anything HS dropout. He has no permits but does buy from strictly and two amigos for his animals. As far as my boss can tell he must someone be importing from Panama as there are several legit breeders there but I am not going to post his personal info. This guys is just some drop shipper kid that wants to look like he knows what he is doing. Not going to get burned by some total amateur and let others have the same happen so I tried to post all my obvious lies he told and keep up with til the end but fuck dendroboard.com. I was told I was just beating up on poor little justin so i just stopped using that shit site. The above poster is right, there people are more interested in getting rare frogs then the health and safety of the frogs they get and to all frogs out there as people like this are the offenders that spread fungus and disease as they do not know how to treat or read a book on what maybe to do not have a veterinary dr, like I work for the help check this shit out.

if anyone cares i can post all the bullshit lies justin tells about the frogs he never had and waiting two months for me to pressure him to in the end have my bank investigate him and re issue me all my cards as they said basically this guy is a scammer and has about 100 complains from CC companies on him out there.

Beware of children masqarading as legit sellers and breeders. Pay more for the real thing and from legit people. you will be happier and never have to deal with a kid and total prick like Justin Miller AKA Bluepumilio.com

[Scott Richardson]

So apparently I am not the only one that saw the mod Scott MacDonald protects him over there. I believe that is why Scott was always the one to shut down the Taron threads and Dart Frog Connection threads. Don't want them mad in case they bring in some cool frogs regardless of their past and the people that get screwed for not knowing. There are good people on there, and some good info. But there is also some bad people and info that should be there.

[Scott85730]

All I'll add here is - the only rare frogs I have are from UE.

TL / DLC have been shut down (on DB) because TL is a 3 time loser. Enough chances.

Have a good day everyone.

s

[markpulawski]

If that is true, if there is spying and controlling, that is sickening. If it is true, why put up with garbage like that? Not worth it. I don't see why you guys don't just come over here and advertise and talk about your frogs.

Lucille you are bashing a forum you know nothing about, is this thread about DB moderation or Justin Miller? DB has taught more people in the hobby how to care for their dart frogs than any other forum, sure it has issues but so do all forums. I see Scott Richardson driving a thread about Justin, is this not about transactions with Justin, did Scott have one? Is not 3rd party info banned if names are not mentioned? Scott did you have a deal go bad? The only person I know that had an issue with dart frogs is Wes Lowthian or V Scape vivs, 1 of his Pumilio was damaged when he received and Justin replaced it about 3 weeks later. I know several people that got great and yes some rare (Costa Rican import)frogs from him. I hope the guy that got his newts from him gets it worked out, aside from that if you want to talk about DB create a thread.

[Lucille]

Lucille you are bashing a forum you know nothing about, is this thread about DB moderation or Justin Miller? DB has taught more people in the hobby how to care for their dart frogs than any other forum, sure it has issues but so do all forums. I see Scott Richardson driving a thread about Justin, is this not about transactions with Justin, did Scott have one? Is not 3rd party info banned if names are not mentioned? Scott did you have a deal go bad? The only person I know that had an issue with dart frogs is Wes Lowthian or V Scape vivs, 1 of his Pumilio was damaged when he received and Justin replaced it about 3 weeks later. I know several people that got great and yes some rare (Costa Rican import)frogs from him. I hope the guy that got his newts from him gets it worked out, aside from that if you want to talk about DB create a thread.

When a thread is initiated here, people may add information about transactions they have had with either of the parties, and they may also post their opinion. If Justin Miller is being called out as a Bad Guy, claims that he is somehow protected on a certain site are obviously relevant to how others see his reputation, and opinions about a site that has been alleged to protect certain members and which has been alleged to spy and control are relevant as well.

Mark, if you have come here to try to control what is said here about those people or sites that are involved in BOI threads, good luck with that.

[markpulawski]

When a thread is initiated here, people may add information about transactions they have had with either of the parties, and they may also post their opinion. If Justin Miller is being called out as a Bad Guy, claims that he is somehow protected on a certain site are obviously relevant to how others see his reputation, and opinions about a site that has been alleged to protect certain members and which has been alleged to spy and control are relevant as well.

Mark, if you have come here to try to control what is said here about those people or sites that are involved in BOI threads, good luck with that.

I thought 3rd party unnamed sources was banned in BOI inquiries and no Lucille I did not come here to control what is said merely correct your wrong assumptions, which I assume you made from info you got from 1 person without ever checking to see if what they said was true. Don't BOI threads ask for evidence, communications, screen shots or at least some verification of claims made? Have you ever been to DB Lucille and read the terms and rules, have you been to the site you say protects members and does not allow negative feedback and check to see that yes Justin Miller has at least 2 negative feedbacks! It seems there are only 2 people here posting on actual transactions with Justin and those are the only relevant posts until we can see some validation of claims in the other posts. If you want to believe claims made about DB by a person that was banned from DB good luck with that.

[markpulawski]

And for the record DB requires feedback both positive and negative to be approved by a mod before it is posted as record. We have all seen plenty of BOI threads where 3 or 4 posts in the person that created says...oh this is a mistake, I don't want a bad guy thread on this person, yet it is here. DB try's to review this feedback and if something doesn't smell right, they require further info, they will also go to the person and try and get them to make it right. I am not a mod for DB nor would I ever want to be, it was recently sold and has gone though it's own problems but those aside it is still the place to get the best info on how to keep dart frogs.

[Lucille]

It seems there are only 2 people here posting on actual transactions with Justin and those are the only relevant posts

Perhaps you should go read how the BOI works, and that people may in fact post their opinions and need not be a party to the transaction, (which is what you are doing now, without you having an actual transaction).
Nice try though.

[wyldwurm]

Perhaps you should go read how the BOI works, and that people may in fact post their opinions and need not be a party to the transaction, (which is what you are doing now, without you having an actual transaction).
Nice try though.

Well said. Looks like more than one person needs review of the forum rules.

If Mr. Underwood plans on participating, he should probably drop that type of language. There ARE people here that do not appreciate that type of language. Not to mention it is expressly against the rules.

[LauraB]

Frankly, what happens on DB; whatever messed up rules and procedures DB puts in place; whatever screwed up censorship rules regarding negative feedback DB may have is all irrelevant to the original thread posted way back in July!

I'm not a member of DB, never even go there (and don't think I would after reading this thread) ... but it seems this thread has gotten way off-topic.

Back in July, Justin Ho purchased a female T. yangi that was represented as healthy. The photo on Justin's website showed a beautiful, well cared for animal.

No, it was not a high dollar purchase, but what Justin received was not the animal represented nor what Justin's customer expected.

DB nor it's loyal members/mods have nothing to do with this transaction. Period.

Where is Justin in this conversation? What has Justin done to satisfy his customer or to explain what appears to be the poor condition of this animal?

With all due respect, I don't want to hear from loyal members/mods from DB about their rules & procedures, even if some may present themselves respectfully and articulately.

I want to hear from Justin. He has, in fact, been a member here since 2002.

[LauraB]

And for the record DB requires feedback both positive and negative to be approved by a mod before it is posted as record. We have all seen plenty of BOI threads where 3 or 4 posts in the person that created says...oh this is a mistake, I don't want a bad guy thread on this person, yet it is here. DB try's to review this feedback and if something doesn't smell right, they require further info, they will also go to the person and try and get them to make it right. .

For the record, Fauna allows feedback, both positive and negative, of any vendor or buyer. No approval of any mod nor "investigation" is required prior to a member posting. No censorship. No proof or evidence is strictly required in keeping with BOI rules, but usually proof is requested by members.

It's not rocket science for members/readers here to ascertain and judge for themselves who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, even if it takes more than 3 or 4 posts to determine same. If your members/readers can determine that after 3 or 4 posts, after your DB official investigation, of course, then more power to you.

And just for the record, Fauna BOI posts are not ever removed or deleted so readers are given the opportunity to assess and come to their own conclusions about a vendor or buyer. Again, not "protected" or censored by the "higher-ups". Fauna's readers are intelligent enough to make their own decisions, and given the opportunity to do so. Even if it takes more than 3 or 4 posts.

And I won't go off-topic again, even though I yacked about off-topic. I got enough hits already. Brevity ain't my strong suit. :)

[kerrek]

Frankly, what happens on DB; whatever messed up rules and procedures DB puts in place; whatever screwed up censorship rules regarding negative feedback DB may have is all irrelevant to the original thread posted way back in July!

I'm not a member of DB, never even go there (and don't think I would after reading this thread) ... but it seems this thread has gotten way off-topic.

Back in July, Justin Ho purchased a female T. yangi that was represented as healthy. The photo on Justin's website showed a beautiful, well cared for animal.

No, it was not a high dollar purchase, but what Justin received was not the animal represented nor what Justin's customer expected.

DB nor it's loyal members/mods have nothing to do with this transaction. Period.

Where is Justin in this conversation? What has Justin done to satisfy his customer or to explain what appears to be the poor condition of this animal?

With all due respect, I don't want to hear from loyal members/mods from DB about their rules & procedures, even if some may present themselves respectfully and articulately.

I want to hear from Justin. He has, in fact, been a member here since 2002.

This is what he said about it on Dart Den



Re: BluePumilio (Justin Miller) - All Feedback
by BluePumilio » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:38 pm

I had your email, I had no way of knowing if that was the email you use for Paypal. I actually only have one email from you in my gmail, so unless I erased something.


Wait...you mean I tried to send the shipment? What...crazy talk.

That person on fauna got his salamanders and then complained the female was off color (all females are that color, they are sexually dimorphic) and that she has regrown fingertips (salamander can regrow body parts). I'm sorry but those were healthy salamanders at a good price for that species, too. You can't make everyone happy, especially when they are misinformed.

I'm not about to post any of my permits/licenses, that's ridiculous. You can claim I don't have a DL either, I shouldn't have to prove every little things you said wrong.

You decided to go through the bank to get your cash back. It'll still come out of my account.

Doesn't seem real concerned.

[jasper408]

This is what he said about it on Dart Den



Re: BluePumilio (Justin Miller) - All Feedback
by BluePumilio » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:38 pm

I had your email, I had no way of knowing if that was the email you use for Paypal. I actually only have one email from you in my gmail, so unless I erased something.


Wait...you mean I tried to send the shipment? What...crazy talk.

That person on fauna got his salamanders and then complained the female was off color (all females are that color, they are sexually dimorphic) and that she has regrown fingertips (salamander can regrow body parts). I'm sorry but those were healthy salamanders at a good price for that species, too. You can't make everyone happy, especially when they are misinformed.

I'm not about to post any of my permits/licenses, that's ridiculous. You can claim I don't have a DL either, I shouldn't have to prove every little things you said wrong.

You decided to go through the bank to get your cash back. It'll still come out of my account.

Doesn't seem real concerned.

1. All females are not that color. Google images will quickly disprove that. http://www.caudata.org/forum/attachments/f1173-advanced-newt-salamander-topics/f30-species-genus-family-discussions/f31-crocodile-newts-tylototriton-echinotriton/28431d1361980685-tylototriton-cf-kweichowensis-update-imageuploadedbytapatalk1361980682.795367.jpg Note the volcano shaped cloaca, definitive proof that it is indeed female.

2. The majority were missing, not regrown. A hind leg also had 6 toes, instead of 5. That could either be a healing mishap, or a genetic issue.

3. It's easy fooling people about missing digits and coloration, but there's a reason why he didn't mention the jaw. Can't trick someone into thinking that's normal.

4. His are priced at 40 each. I won't name specific sellers, but some searching online finds them cheaper. Just FYI, if you were interested in the species but didn't want to purchase from him.

[markpulawski]

Frankly, what happens on DB; whatever messed up rules and procedures DB puts in place; whatever screwed up censorship rules regarding negative feedback DB may have is all irrelevant to the original thread posted way back in July!

I'm not a member of DB, never even go there (and don't think I would after reading this thread) ... but it seems this thread has gotten way off-topic.

Back in July, Justin Ho purchased a female T. yangi that was represented as healthy. The photo on Justin's website showed a beautiful, well cared for animal.

No, it was not a high dollar purchase, but what Justin received was not the animal represented nor what Justin's customer expected.

DB nor it's loyal members/mods have nothing to do with this transaction. Period.

Where is Justin in this conversation? What has Justin done to satisfy his customer or to explain what appears to be the poor condition of this animal?

With all due respect, I don't want to hear from loyal members/mods from DB about their rules & procedures, even if some may present themselves respectfully and articulately.

I want to hear from Justin. He has, in fact, been a member here since 2002.

I agree with this completely, DB has their rules like them or not no one is forced to go there or stay there and the reference to it should have been merely a footnote. I too want to see Justin come here and post about Jasper's issue, in the past I have seen him fix these type of complaints, if he does not it will be very disappointing.

[Lucille]

DB nor it's loyal members/mods have nothing to do with this transaction.



With all due respect, Laura, I disagree. A mod from DB has come here and invited the OP to go over there, where the mod will 'look into' any issues. That involvement could affect the outcome of the transaction one way or another.



If the OP would like to contact me on DB - I'll be happy to help him any way I can. As I mentioned - I looked into two other people.

I am here mainly to address ScottR's post but if the OP would like to PM me on Dendroboard I'll happily look into any issue he had.

Have a good evening.

s

But is that involvement better than the process here?

The problem with these 'back room deals' is that others, including future buyers, are left out in the cold. You are inviting the OP to talk to you yet saying that he is expressly not allowed to post the content of that conversation as per your rules.

That means that it is possible that something might be done (or might not) but that others who might save themselves money and aggravation by hearing about all of this and judging for themselves whether they want to do business with Justin will not have that information exchanged in this secret meeting.

That makes this system elitist. Instead of each side presenting and posting information and allowing readers to decide as is done here, the 'secret meeting' process is in effect saying that readers don't have enough smarts to decide for themselves, that the Dendroboard mods will decide for them.

I myself think that readers here have both the intelligence and the incentive to read carefully and choose what is in their own best interests as far as deciding who to do business with.


For the record, Fauna allows feedback, both positive and negative, of any vendor or buyer. No approval of any mod nor "investigation" is required prior to a member posting. No censorship. No proof or evidence is strictly required in keeping with BOI rules, but usually proof is requested by members.

It's not rocket science for members/readers here to ascertain and judge for themselves who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, even if it takes more than 3 or 4 posts to determine same. If your members/readers can determine that after 3 or 4 posts, after your DB official investigation, of course, then more power to you.

And just for the record, Fauna BOI posts are not ever removed or deleted so readers are given the opportunity to assess and come to their own conclusions about a vendor or buyer. Again, not "protected" or censored by the "higher-ups". Fauna's readers are intelligent enough to make their own decisions, and given the opportunity to do so. Even if it takes more than 3 or 4 posts.


I believe that Fauna is a better venue for the OP, because the open process here allows readers to judge for themselves what they think of each party.




I want to hear from Justin. He has, in fact, been a member here since 2002.

I would like to see him respond as well.

[markpulawski]

This is no doubt a better place for the OP to post his issues, why put a newt problem on a dart frog forum.
Jasper I have been told you were offered a free female and then 2 free females if you pay for the shipping and that offer is still in place, why have you not accepted this offer? Would everyone not agree that 2 free females is adequate compensation for someone trying to make up for this problem?
Scott R coming here to complain about someone having a problem is the 3rd party info I was referring to, is it not BOI policy to not have 3rd party complaints without naming that party or the problem they had?
I like the BOI, I also like DB, they are different and I don't have a problem with either that I can't live with.

[kerrek]

This is no doubt a better place for the OP to post his issues, why put a newt problem on a dart frog forum.
Jasper I have been told you were offered a free female and then 2 free females if you pay for the shipping and that offer is still in place, why have you not accepted this offer? Would everyone not agree that 2 free females is adequate compensation for someone trying to make up for this problem?
Scott R coming here to complain about someone having a problem is the 3rd party info I was referring to, is it not BOI policy to not have 3rd party complaints without naming that party or the problem they had?
I like the BOI, I also like DB, they are different and I don't have a problem with either that I can't live with.

Why should he have to pay shipping when he was sent a "defective" animal? Next day air is usually @ $40-60 so he's going to be out as much as if he paid for the replacement.

[markpulawski]

2 free females would mean he comes out whole and even with the 2nd shipping, that is a break even scenario and seems a reasonable outcome.

[jasper408]

I do not know what to do in this situation. He did email me on the 30th of August, after I suppose pressures from people at DB. He is not apologetic in the slightest, and as indicated earlier, puts any blame on me and continues to claim that they were healthy. He also threatened to cease contact with me if I were to continue posting in this thread.

As of now, I am sick of this individual and I do not wish to further correspond with him. His half-hearted attempts at a resolution have neither the good-will, nor the monetary compensation necessary for a proper conclusion, for which either would have been acceptable.

He did offer two females as of 6:22 AM this morning, but I can not accept. His method of accepting payment is through Debit/Credit card, and I do not wish to send him my address again(Simply put, I do not trust him). I also feel as if he is trying to palm off the females onto me, since he is now unable to sell them due to market saturation, and even possibly because of this thread. If what he sent me was what he considered healthy, how should I expect him to take care of his properly? It is clear that what he sells are products, and not living, breathing animals.

There are so many reasons why I should not deal with this individual, yet I also wish to wash my hands of this entire situation. I suppose a partial refund would be the best/easiest course of action. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I think I removed the language in the following emails.

Jasper H <jasper408@gmail.com>
Jul 5

to Justin
Justin,

I would normally give the benefit of the doubt(being busy), but you have been consistently updating your Facebook page without taking the few minutes to respond to my email.

It baffles me that someone would risk their reputation over 40 bucks, especially when it is such an open and close case like this. I do not want any trouble, but there is no way anyone would be happy with what you palmed off to me. It has been 21 days since you have been notified of the problem, and it's starting to like a stall tactic. I suppose it has come to this now: If a proper response is not garnered by the end of Monday (7/8), I will be posting about my experience and opening a claim.

I apologize if you are innocent in all of this. I have not had to do this ever in my years of buying and selling, and hope this is all just one big misunderstanding. I had hoped to purchase more from you, females or not, but that seems out the door now.

Sincerely,

Jasper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Justin Miller
Aug 30

to me
Jasper,

First...I saw your posting just now.

I sent you a healthy female T. yangi as described. Having regrown toes doesn't mean it was not healthy. I mean, you wanted to kill the poor animals because it was not perfect. And truthfully, I never even noticed as I was concerned about the health of the animal. As for the coloration, all females are that coloration!!!

I didn't know how to express this to you at the time during a busy period in my life, but I am livid that you are running around like I ripped you off. You got your animals as described, healthy WC imports. If any died or had health issues, you never told me.

Cheers,

Justin
Blue Pumilio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jasper H <jasper408@gmail.com>
Aug 30

to Justin
Justin,

You can not be serious. I told you what I would do. Now you feel I warrant a response, now that your reputation is on the line on DB?

1. Missing toes were not the only issue. Please refer to the Facebook message, or the BOI thread.
2. I asked you what I should do. "At this point, do you think euthanasia is the right course of action?" Clearly, I was asking for advice. Do not warp my words into misconstrued intentions.
3. If you truly believe that all females are that coloration, I will gladly point you to Google images. http://www.caudata.org/forum/attachments/f1173-advanced-newt-salamander-topics/f30-species-genus-family-discussions/f31-crocodile-newts-tylototriton-echinotriton/28431d1361980685-tylototriton-cf-kweichowensis-update-imageuploadedbytapatalk1361980682.795367.jpg Do you see the female's cloaca on that specimen? I hope you don't have others fooled.

That would have been completely understandable. However, as busy as you were, I don't think replying to an email would have been all that much trouble, considering how much you posted on your page. There was also the option of replying any time since June. It is now the end of August.

Let me put it this way. If you sent a dart frog with a jaw deformity, would the receiver take kindly to it? Would you take kindly to it? Please take a moment to step into the buyers' shoes.

Sincerely,
Jasper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Justin Miller
Aug 30

to me
Actually my posts during that time where scheduled posts. My "Selected readings", right? I had over a months set up to go out at 6pm, daily. Maybe some photos of animals? I actually stopped selling any/all animals during that time after it was apparent I didn't have the time to focus on it.

You originally told me you wanted to put that female down because she has regrown toes. That sounded crazy to me and truthfully, I didn't know how to react to that.

As for the coloration, EVERY female came in that coloration, over 30 females, ever one. No males came in that coloration...just females, and all of them. Since then, they have darkened up.

As for the jaw, I didn't notice it when I shipped. There was no active infection, and it was likely due to a past break that healed, not genetic.

I will tell you now that the ONLY reason I am speaking to you is because I saw that post and obviously there was some serious miscommunication occurring. If I see any additional posts by you on that thread, I see no point to continue our correspondence, as you seriously stepped past your original posting and went into something else after that first. That other guy on there is f---ing crazy that posted after you. He got refunded, and choose to go through his bank after he refused to give me his Paypal email address. I'm not going to go in the BOI to explain that stuff....people just make up c--p, there.

Did you put that female down? Did she die?

Here is what I'll offer.

You pay shipping and I'll send you a new female.

Cheers,

Justin
Blue Pumilio

[Lucille]

From the post above between Jasper and Justin:


" I'm not going to go in the BOI to explain that stuff....people just make up ****, there.
Cheers,
Justin
Blue Pumilio"


Several people in this thread have already talked about the BOI and how it works, and that the interactions between the parties and questions from the onlookers usually find the truth.

I believe Justin is afraid to come here, not because people make up ****, but on the contrary, because after it is all said and done, it is remarkable how the real deal and the truth emerges.
Justin is so fearful that he is trying to put the hush on, threatening to withdraw contact from Jasper if Jasper continues to post here.



He is, however, keeping a close eye on the thread:

Blue_Pumilio
Registered User
Trader Rating: (0) [Rate This User!]
Send Message User Lists
Last Activity: 09-14-2013 11:31 PM

He also has put up a recent turtle ad on Fauna, so he is taking advantage of what our site has to offer while hiding from the BOI.

[kerrek]

2 free females would mean he comes out whole and even with the 2nd shipping, that is a break even scenario and seems a reasonable outcome.

How is he whole? He ordered and already paid for healthy animals. Now if he forks over shipping he gets 2 extra females that he may not want or have room for. You shouldn't have to pay extra to get what you originally ordered.

[Lucille]

From the post above between Jasper and Justin:

"As for the jaw, I didn't notice it when I shipped. There was no active infection, and it was likely due to a past break that healed, not genetic.
Cheers,
Justin
Blue Pumilio"

I can really begin to see from this particular claim why Justin does not want to explain himself here.
He sent this critter out with a deformed jaw and didn't even notice, and is now giving this buyer a hard time when all the buyer wants is a partial refund for a newt he may not want to use in his breeding program, a reasonable request, IMHO.

When his buyer said something, Justin offered an opinion based on absolutely nothing (since he did not even see the deformity) that it was a past injury and not a genetic abnormality. If Justin were here, he would be asked to explain how he formed such an unsupported opinion.

How many quality breeders would want to breed a critter like that, not knowing for sure why the critter is deformed, and sell the offspring to unsuspecting buyers? But the critter still has to be fed and cared for or sold as a pet, and how many people are in the market for deformed newts?

[markpulawski]

Jasper you said the 2 males were in peak condition, sincere or not Justin offering you 2 females for the price of shipping certainly seems like a fair offer and your original request was for a replacement. I can't imagine you would not get 2 good animals considering the profile the first female you got created and the likely hood of you having 2 pairs to work with seems like a win/win in my book. As for not giving him your address, the guy lives on the east coast of Florida, you live in California, being 3000 miles away do you honestly think you have anything to worry about?
And by the way how is the first female doing, does it eat and act normal or is it miscolored and wasting away?

[jasper408]

Jasper you said the 2 males were in peak condition, sincere or not Justin offering you 2 females for the price of shipping certainly seems like a fair offer and your original request was for a replacement. I can't imagine you would not get 2 good animals considering the profile the first female you got created and the likely hood of you having 2 pairs to work with seems like a win/win in my book. As for not giving him your address, the guy lives on the east coast of Florida, you live in California, being 3000 miles away do you honestly think you have anything to worry about?
And by the way how is the first female doing, does it eat and act normal or is it miscolored and wasting away?

There are a million things that could go wrong, from the health of the animals, to what I will be getting in the mail. Will I have to record the unpacking? It's just so much trouble. If everything goes to plan, then yes, his offer would be ideal, assuming I was willing to spend more money on more individuals. However, I would prefer the easier and cheaper path of a partial refund, if anything.

The female is okay, I suppose. You can't tell if they're in pain, for example. She is still quarantined from the rest of the group, and does eat. I will not be breeding her, yes, because of the risk of poor genetics.

[Scott Richardson]

Actually Mark, My original comment was in regard to Jasper stating he did not understand why Justin had a good reputation on DB. Because your little cliche protects him.

Why was I banned? For speaking ill of Justin in a PM with a Mod. And posting the threatening message I received in Public. I openly invited said Mod to post the pms here.

You only know of one person? On DB maybe. Like I told Scott if you need a name, read a few forums. Justin has recent threads about him on snake, chameleon, and spider forums. Not just frogs.

I am not the only one from DB that commented about DB. You can try to use the word banned to discredit my comments, but the other poster is not banned. Can you discredit him?

Why did it take the members of your little cliche to get Justin to make the offer he finally made? I don't believe he would of ever made any offer had DB not been brought into it.

Why are you speaking for Justin? Why isn't he speaking for himself?

[Scott Richardson]

Original post was made on July 9th. No offer made to make it right until August 30th?

[markpulawski]

Actually Scott I am not in any little clichés, I too received have infraction points from Scott the mod there however I knew that Justin moved into a house during the time frame you mentioned and had many issues with service during that period. As far as I know he took care of those problems and has since offered Jasper a fair solution although not the one Jasper is looking for. It really doesn't matter what you believe when you are speculating and hold a grudge as that would certainly taint what you think an outcome will be. I did not go to Justin, he sent me a note when he saw my comments on how he had offered Jasper a free female and then that day was going to offer him 2 to offset the shipping.

[Scott Richardson]

Oh, he was moving and got behind, Thanks for explaining that Mark. That almost clears it up.

Care to take a second to explain the rest of the past 6 years?
How about the 104 page post here?
Why the name change from Intense Herpetoculture? (wow did he have shitty feedback)
Did the guy in Chile ever get his 5 grand back?

You can say it is because he was moving, but he has a long history, not just a few screw ups while moving.
And it isn't about having a grudge, it is about informing newcomers. Justin is no different than Sidney or Taron.

[Yeay!Froggies!]

Hi,

I just made an order from Blue Pumilio about a week ago and now I am feeling like I regret it. Does anyone have full contact details for this guy? I would like a real address and phone number? Maybe a middle name? If this doesn't turn out well I am going to report him to the FBI for internet fraud. What he is doing is illegal and needs to be stopped.

As far as my story goes I made the order via his web site and he answered all my questions fast before the money was sent. Now I don't hardly hear from him. Now I have been waiting over a week for him to ship out the frogs I ordered and he is MIA. Upside is I paid through paypal and maybe I can get the money back from there. Any advice or information would be greatly appreciated.

Ken

[Dennis Hultman]

Yet another.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1664600&posted=1#post1664600

[hhmoore]

This isn't a forum war; nor are the differences between the two sites up for discussion in a BOI thread about an individual. Stop the bickering about tangent subjects.

Mr Underwood's language has been addressed with him privately

[allreptiles1966]

The rough part of this is,it wont be long before we see another bad guy boi on him.
Bad sellers keep at it when nothing is done to stop it. To bad this site doesnt keep people like him from joining this great site when its apperent he is bad business. Or boot the bad people when they do this too much on other sites. You can get banned on other sites for ripping off others.giving deformed animals and so on,with proof and then come on here and do the same thing.
For reputation purposes( probably shot) just pay the tiny refund man.
I hope you get your money back,or the very small refund you are seeking. I agree with you on not wanting to take any more females from him. If he didnt see the jaw issue,whats he gonna send the next time? As far as the color,maybe he is color blind.

[hhmoore]

I don't usually fall into the trap of addressing old issues when a post is reported months later - my apologies for failing to notice before submitting the above post. :blush:

[davidsimon6]

That'd be a good way to get an infraction. Since that site doesn't require full names on posts, the OP would likely get dinged for 3rd party anonymous quotes if he posted screenshots. I learned that the hard way.\

jesus, i wonder how a normal person gets their self into a conversation with something like this, smh

[kakiharae]

what is was talked too about my language privately? No DB mod you just bitched about my choice of words in the forum and had not direct contact with me. DB is just a forum that protect this POS Justin Miller of Bluepumilio.com and really did nothing to help me but bitch about my use of words which is well shit so like I care or about some importers with no herp degrees doing pretty much nothing but breeding to make money and spreading Chyrid fungus. Oh I am mistaken? Ok then read this and tell me I am wrong.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21133-frogkiller-disease-was-born-in-trade.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=life#.Uo1KQqXA50A


point is I tried to show people this guy is just a scammer and not a legit importer. My University looke dhim up as we were trying to get Malayan leaf frogs fro our breeding program he clearly never had or could get. All we got was stringed along for months then when we went public justin cried like a little bitch he is and I got some shit from DB about how is picky on the little shit head con artist so really I lost interest dealing with that kind of crap after trying to warn others but wait he was moving so that makes it ok? the little shit never said anything to me at the time and that is not my problem. People move so plan ahead and do not make excuses and string people along like Justin does and will continue to do so as long as people want his drop shipped animals which is what he does. If i am wrong then just ask for his papers which eh must have and does not.
This guy on top off ripping me off then is now trying to fight my bank to not refund me. that is the kind of shit kid this is and continues to be.
I tried to warn others and now see more BS from big surprise Justin Miller so done here.
I do not need to make up info on this asshole, go ahead and look it up, its all on the web or rather the lack of it. Call the state he works on and check his licenses he does not have and is now reported and dealing with that too.

Justin Miller is a scum bag and will rip you off. I have proof and will pot more when my bank is done with him so you can see that too.

Love how his little click comes here to protect him and tell us it is all ok he was just moving......you know in like april when I was dealing with him and still looks like same issues so must still be moving or big surprise he is not legit and a rip off scammer. Now sure he may have some leaves a a frog here and there but I just do not see this with anyone else ever or have ever had an issue with anyone on any of these till this little shit Justin and his make excuse after excuse attitude and then no refund and when you ask for one fi you are not nice then good luck cause apparently being upset after waiting around and being lied to does not justify you being upset at poor little Justin Miller and he can not take that kind of realness so will just stop dealing with you and then fight you tooth and nail for your money.

Seriously think I care about this beyond trying to spare at least one person from dealing with this shit and you are dreaming. Done with this BS no resolve he said she said BS. Nothing new just lots of back and forth here

[savethetortoise]

Im thinking of buying a couple impress torts from Justin, is he really bad? Is anyone happy with him?

[Lucille]

Im thinking of buying a couple impress torts from Justin, is he really bad? Is anyone happy with him?

I think the function of the BOI is so people can read about other's transactions and then make up their own mind. After reading this entire thread would you feel comfortable in a transaction with him?

[savethetortoise]

No I back out thank God, I've decided to focus on Burmese stars only, looking for some babies of new bloodlines, if anyone knows of any.
Thanks for your help, Happy Thanksgiving.

[kakiharae]

Just finally got a report back from BBB. Justin never replied so he loses and also lied to my bank which is suing him as he provided false documents to try ands how he shipped but never did. I love how this POS wrote me to admite this all and did not think I woud show the bank and BBB? Just want this loser out of the trade so people do not harry to worry about this total BS.
I had never had an issue and have gotten many frogs from random people but after this never again just can not trust anyone it seems and if they do wrong then people like Justin Miller will just lie and make up shit to delay their obvious faults.

This guy had three business under his name all trying to do imports. The locals there had no verification of his import papers or that he even does that. My UC can ask this kind fo thing and has with no new info. Obvious drop shipper that gets from others and could care less and anything then money.

At least I will get back my 190$ from this little kid and do hope others find resolve with him.
I will provide any info if it helps you get your money back from him but go through your bank and the BBB.

[Yeay!Froggies!]

Another place this guy can be reported is the Internet Crime Division at the FBI called IC3. Here is a link to there site. http://www.ic3.gov/

Update on my situation:

Here is the message I sent BBB

On Oct 23rd I ordered 3 frogs listed on the www.bluepumilio.com website for a total of $400 plus $50 for shipping. It has now been almost 2 months of getting the run around by Justin Miller the owner of Blue Pumilio. He has promised me he would ship them out "tomorrow" 3 times. Then the next day comes and I ask for shipping details or a tracking number he then sends me an email after the fact telling me he didn't ship them for XYZ reason. One reason was because one of the frogs was sick and "had an ulcer develop on it's head". At this point I am concerned with the animals health and requested pictures of the "ulcer". I received no reply to my request. He would reply to other questions and ignore the request for pictures. After it healed up he finally sent pictures of the frogs but one was upside down and not showing the head. So now I am trying to get him to send the frogs to me but he always has an excuse why it doesn't happen. I also can send you all the email correspondence and text messages that I have received from him. At this point I am fed up and just want my money back. Today 12/17/2013 I did tell him I would give him until tomorrow to ship the frogs or refund the money before I reported him to as many entities as I could find. My next step is to make a report on the FBI IC3 website. I hope you can help me as I am not the only person to have been ripped off by this guy. A simple google search will reveal many unhappy customers. I wish I had done one before sending through my money.Best Regards,Kenneth Crompton

I hope no one else has the same problems I did.

[markpulawski]

Another place this guy can be reported is the Internet Crime Division at the FBI called IC3. Here is a link to there site. http://www.ic3.gov/

Update on my situation:

Here is the message I sent BBB

On Oct 23rd I ordered 3 frogs listed on the www.bluepumilio.com website for a total of $400 plus $50 for shipping. It has now been almost 2 months of getting the run around by Justin Miller the owner of Blue Pumilio. He has promised me he would ship them out "tomorrow" 3 times. Then the next day comes and I ask for shipping details or a tracking number he then sends me an email after the fact telling me he didn't ship them for XYZ reason. One reason was because one of the frogs was sick and "had an ulcer develop on it's head". At this point I am concerned with the animals health and requested pictures of the "ulcer". I received no reply to my request. He would reply to other questions and ignore the request for pictures. After it healed up he finally sent pictures of the frogs but one was upside down and not showing the head. So now I am trying to get him to send the frogs to me but he always has an excuse why it doesn't happen. I also can send you all the email correspondence and text messages that I have received from him. At this point I am fed up and just want my money back. Today 12/17/2013 I did tell him I would give him until tomorrow to ship the frogs or refund the money before I reported him to as many entities as I could find. My next step is to make a report on the FBI IC3 website. I hope you can help me as I am not the only person to have been ripped off by this guy. A simple google search will reveal many unhappy customers. I wish I had done one before sending through my money.Best Regards,Kenneth Crompton

I hope no one else has the same problems I did.

Ken did you get your frogs or your refund?

[Yeay!Froggies!]

An update on my problems with Justin Miller of Blue Pumilio. I have finally received my Trio of D. Tinc. Dasha. It did take 2 months and many promises that they were sent and they were not. Excuses excuses but they did finally get there and he has offered a free female at no cost to me. He has always been polite but this has been so frustrating. I hope no one else has to deal with this kind of stress.

[kakiharae]

People still buying from this drop shipper? is it not obvious to you all now that this kid has nothing and drop ships all he gets yet? dude has everything but i takes months to get it or is fine or nothing ever so pretty obvious he is waiting for his importers to ship to you and has no control. so you get to wonder if they what you order is even healthy much less has any viruses and funguses from importing that is untreated by this amateur who only cares about money or he would not pull this. My bank is suing this POS for providing false info and saying he shipped then in a email to me says he did not. Justin Miller is just the kind of scum that makes getting anything online from someone you do not know scary.

Stop buying from this guy.
if you message me i will send you links to anything he can get as he is just ordering it from someone else and you are just paying more.

Justin I do hope you give this up and get a real job and life but that seems unlikely as I still see people buying leaves from this scammer.

[Scott Richardson]

You would have to check with Mark, but I am sure Justin is still moving into that house from back in July and that is the reason

[markpulawski]

Scott I must admit you were right and apologize for defending this guy, he has not changed his ways. I know of several people he has owed frogs or money to for quite a while now, and I am pretty sure they will never get either.....except another excuse as to why he did not ship.
And for those that may have put deposits down on his Costa Rican frog imports know that those will now be distributed through Saurian Enterprises and that if you paid Justin for Costa Rican frogs that you have not received you will never get them.

[Scott Richardson]

Mark,
Sorry to hear of the misfortune of others. Unfortunately, Scott MacDonald will continue to shelter and protect Justin, and he will be allowed to continue selling on Dendroboard with no negative comments allowed.
You see now, I was not on a witchhunt. I posted factual info here for the purpose the board exists. And sadly, had Scott MacDonald not tried to discredit me to protect Justin, people would of probably not been ripped off after having read feedback.

I've been in the frog hobby a long time, and know of Justin's actions. I encourage everyone to report bad dealings on BOI and check BOI before doing business. It will save you from getting ripped off.

[markpulawski]

Scott I think the DB team has finally had it's fill as well, Justin can no longer post and they have suspended his feedback based on multiple unresolved issues...and their comments in his feedback are very telling, or at least as telling as DB will get.
It's weird because some people get what they buy from him but many do not and get nothing but excuses. I do know he owes a lot of money for frogs he will no longer be getting, and rather than pay those people back he uses other's prepay money to go buy new inventory from the wholesalers to keep the cycle going. Preselling animals he does not have and the using that money before they show up seems to be a drug he can't give up. I would advise anyone to stay clear of this guy.

[Scott Richardson]

To be honest, I read that as one of the DB mods got screwed by Justin. I feel sorry for the others, but if one of them did, It serves them right for covering it up and allowing others to get screwed.
DB is a shell now. Most people posting are new giving advice to newer people. The majority of the long timers are gone. All because of the Mods. I am done with the forums. I wouldn't rejoin if my ban was lifted.
Sad part is, I think Jason's forum had great potential when everyone got fed up with DB, but the same cronies from DB joined it, and that kept everyone else from joining.

[markpulawski]

Actually I don't think any of the mods got burned but I had 3 people come to me asking for help and I went to a couple of the mods there and those people have been paid back. I did tell them by not allowing everyone to post their experience they can be seen as abetting Justin's ability to take money from more people. They have removed his face book signature where he sells almost all of his animals, the good new is that for those I asked they help with, all have been taken care of. I do know of a few more out there that are out a few hundred that have not been paid back but I have no idea if they have requested assistance.
After 7 years of the same activity it seems there will always be a % of his customers that receive nothing...not worth the risk.

[JJuchems]

NEGATIVE FEEDBACK
Transaction date started April 1, 2014 and still on going.
Justin Miller/Blue Pumilio/www.bluepumilio.com/https://www.facebook.com/BluePumilio
Note: This was not my first transaction with the seller. All others were without issue.
I made a purchase of 4 frogs (2 sexed pairs) from Justin on March 31. After paying he added another species I wanted to acquire. He delayed shipping at my request by a few days to a purchase I made on April 1st. I received the 2 sexed pair without issue, but the added 2 frogs were not sent. I was not notified until after receiving the frogs that the other 2 frogs, wild caught, arrived in rough shape and were being treated for rub nose. I inquired on their condition and on May 14 purchased a single frog to add to the order that will be arriving. To date I have not received the 3frogs that I ordered.
Here are the missed shipped dates, I was given no notice on the ship date that the frogs would not be sent.
6/11/14 for 6/12/14 arrival (Facebook message)
6/18/14 for 6/19/14 arrival (Facebook message)
6/24/14 for 6/25/14 arrival (Facebook message)
6/26/14 for 6/27/14 arrival (Facebook message)
7/7/14 for 7/2/14 arrival (by phone)
7/8/14 for 7/9/14 arrival (by text)
7/9/14 for 7/10/14 arrival (by text)
Contacted by text and said he was sick the best shipping week in July
7/28/14 for 7/29/14 arrival (by text)
7/31/14 for 8/1 arrival (by text)

[Kristi23]

It took me three months to get the animals I ordered, too. Health was poor, but I was able to rehab.