Beware of Jeremy Heikel

[Neverland Dragons]

I purchased a 14 month old orange bearded dragon from Jeremy Heikel based on two photos he emailed me. She was a pretty bright orange dragon. What I received was a dull barely yellow, almost tan dragon. I expressed my concern to him and he said she would color up. Well, it has been a week and she has not. I asked about what happened if I was not happy with her and he told me all sales are final, after the fact. That was partly my fault for not asking. I am starting a small scale breeding business and I have purchased dragons from Kakadu Dragons, Mystical Dragons and Earthtone Reptiles. Anyone of them can vouch for my integrity. I was advised by a breeder who has been through the whole process of buying this girl with me to return this girl for she felt Jeremy had not been honest in his representation of her. He said I would not get a refund that she arrived healthy. The fact remains that she is not near the color he represented her to be. So I have entered a dispute on my visa. I asked him for his address to ship her back and it has gotten ugly. He advised me that he emailed all the breeders he knows that I am a fraud and warned them about me. I have not done anything wrong and I am the one who was misled. I am attaching pictures to show what I am talking about. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what recourse I have? I appreciate any advise. Most importantly, DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH JEREMY HEIKEL. He is dishonest and can not be trusted. I tried to attach the pictures and I don't know if they took. If not I will figure it out and post them soon.

Sincerely,

Wendy Thomas

[Kakadu]

I think it also needs to be pointed out that this person was trying to sell a different dragon on Reptibid and representing it as a certain bloodline from a top breeder. The owner/producer of that line was informed and claims that none of the dragons from his line were anywhere near that age yet (its a new line) and that it was in no way releated to his stock.

This person has represented himself as being close to certain big breeders "friends" and "we are working on breeding projects together" were stated. When this major breeder was contacted he stated that he knows of this person but has no releationship with him. He has simpley talked to him a few times.

If you want more info on this you need to e-mail me directly because I am not going to post breeders names on the BOI in releation to this guy without their permission.

Last, please note that this guy promised to have all bloodline info available for this girl. He has STILL not produced it. This was part of the deal as this girl was purchased as a breeder, and some people still care about diverse genetics. Wendy will not breed an animal that she can not trace its heritage. The gene pool is so small there is never justification for taking the chance. So without this info that he can't seem to get (he is waiting on his "friend") Wendy has no use for this dragon at all. Here is the letter she got when she inquired about the bloodline info. Remember, she paid $500 for this dragon, is dissatified with its color but trying to be understanding, and has been trying to get any info she can on this animal:

His Email
I am the manager of an O'Charlies. I have been working 6-8:30 9:00 every day
for about a week. To be quite honest you are really becomming very
frustrating. I will get the info for you. Dachiu is 1 hour ahead of me, and
I do not feel it is right to call him at 10:00 at night. I will get it when
I get it, hopefully I can do it soon. But I am not guaranteeing anything. I
am sorry if this is a little rough, but I am extreamly tired and I am going
to bed. Have a nice night Wendy. Jeremy


Anyway, here are the pictures. I am hosting them. I resized them a bit but otherwise have not touched them.

http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/1108157072.jpg
http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/EPSN0035.JPG

Jennifer Graef
Kakadu Dragons

[KNOBTAIL]

buying from people that you have delt with in the past as opposed to a total stranger who apparently thought they could get away with this nonsense. I would also suggest that you understand the TOS before you send any monies to anyone.

You can consider yourself lucky, because you paid by credit card. But you may loose their as well if this person can show that he fulfilled his obligations. Color can be subjective, and it can get a bit tricky with credit card companies who just need written proof that the seller met his end of the bargain.

Their are so many bearded dragon breeders out their, and allot of good ones that would have serviced you well, but I have a funny feeling that price was the motivating factor here as well as the color that you were thinking you were going to get.

Let us know how this persues. Also dont worry about anyone bad mouthing you, its common in this business to pass on the blame.

[Neverland Dragons]

Thanks for the insight. I actually was having a hard time locating a girl that age. I contacted all of teh reputable breeders I could get an email to. I thought I was getting good bloodlines and a nice colored dagon. I ran it by a respectable breeder to make sure I was doing the right thing. But yes, I will only deal with respectable breeders and am glad to have learned this lesson early on.

[hellschild]

If he is from the east coast he is the same Jeremy from another forum called Reptile Adoption Connection. He is asking people for their unwanted reptiles and then is turning around and selling them after promising to simply care for them.

I hope you resolve your dilema soon.

As far as the dragon you recieved, it is the same dragon physically, but there is always the possibility he could have enhanced the color in the pic.
Just my opinion.

Shannon:)

[mrmojorisen]

they are right about the credit cards, it might be semifutile with visa, but i hope for your sake that they do do something about it, but regardless what he did was deplorable, i wish i had better advice to give you, but i don't, and i'm sorry. joe

[Bringerofdoom]

it is the same beardie in both pics, but you can notice obvious color tweaking in the above pic. i gets so bad in certain areas it blurrs the scales like in the dead center of the back.

people that do scams like this are the main reason i avoid buying reptiles online through auctions or classifieds. i too am a beginning breeder who is trying to breed leopard geckos and trying to aquire decent breeding stock. i dont know how many horror stories i hear from people who have similar problems with other ripoff artist.

im sorry to read about this, but hopefully you get justice. have you tried to contact you local authorities to see any if anything can be done. the "bait and switch" tatic this guy pulled is illegal and he can be sued over it in a court of law.

[GOLDENSERPENT]

I agree that it is the same dragon but I do also disagree that it is a bait and switch scam. those are scams which mostly car dealers use to get you to the dealership and tell you they are out of them but we have this nice model right here.
What this fella did was blatantly misrepresent the animal by enhancing the photo. That is just out and out fraud in my opinion.
Especially if he did not tell you that he did not enhance to maybe show a scar or particular pattern.
Thanks and these are just my .02

[overhaul]

That's so sad to think someone will dupe others like that. It's definitely the same dragon in both photos but hard to tell if it's been photoshopped. I have photoshopped photos in the past and at first glance, my opinion is that this one hasn't been..

Nevertheless, there's the possibility that it was not photoshopped but still the picture taker manipulated the camera to accentuate the reds. I have a digital and this is VERY easy to do. So the photo will still be "legit" but still be deceiving.

Notice the pinkish tint of the sand...

I would open the original (has to be the original) photo he sent you in an descent editor like ACDSee. Depending on the camera he used and how the photo was uploaded, it may have been saved with additional information including color saturation.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about (info from one of my own photos which is stored within the photo jpg file)

Photo Properties
summary details
Make Canon
Model Canon PowerShot G2
Aperture Value f 4
Color Space sRGB
Exposure Bias Value 0 EV
Flash No Flash
Focal Length 21 mm
ISO 0
Metering Mode Multi-Segment
Shutter Speed Value 1/201 sec
Date/Time 2004:03:14 10:18:17 Image Type
Orientation Normal (O deg)
Resolution Unit Inch
X Resolution 180 dots per ResolutionUnit Y
Resolution 180 dots per ResolutionUnit
Contrast Normal
Exposure Mode EasyShoot
Saturation Normal
Sharpness Normal
Subject Distance 0

If he has a camera where Red, Green, and Blue can be manipulated, I *think* the level of each of those will also be included in the photo info.

Anyway, unless you have some info like the above or can prove that the photo was doctored after it was taken, it's going to be tricky to get the CC companies to do anything about it. All they need to know is that you got the dragon in the picture. Color is usually subjective.

[MatthewM]

Hello my name is Matthew Maribo of www.Mystical-Dragons.com

I actually tried emailing Jeremy Heinkel twice about an ad he posted on reptibid. In the ad he claims to have bought the dragon from me in January of last year. The problem with all this is my first season selling anything was this season in May 04, and back in January when he claims to have purchased said dragon Mystical-Dragons was not yet running.

I told him through the Questions & Answer part of that site that the dragon he was selling was not one of mine, as we produced our first babies this season 04. He then told me he purchased the dragon from a breeder at a show, and went by what the breeder had told him.

I then emailed him saying his ad said he purchased straight from me. I then asked him who he purchased the dragon from that told him it was from Mystical-Dragons linage, as whomever told him this knew about Mystical-Dragons before we ever produced anything, or had a completed web site up. I sent this email twice already with no answers to the questions as to who he purchased this dragon from that gave him the information he claims.

I do have the exact ad as it appeared on that site, but did not know how to post it here. What I did do was copy and pasted the ad here, but unfortunitly the pics do not show up. If anyone is interested in seeing the ad as it was posted please just drop me an emai,l and I'd be happy to send it. If you could even share it here that might help as well. Thanks


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Huge Proven Breeder Dragon Item number: #1096945553

Categories > Lizard > Bearded Dragons > Item Watch this item (track it in My Auction Tracker)





Starting bid: US $ 150.00

Time left: 1 Day 8 Hrs+
Started: Sat Oct 02, 10:05 PM
Ends: Mon Oct 04, 10:05 PM

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US $400.00

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Location: Opelika AL 36801


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Jheikel (feedback:( 1 ) )
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Payment Options: PayPal, Personal Check, Money Order Shipping Terms: Buyer Pays Origin: Captive Born

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I bought this dgragon from Mystical Dragons in January of last year. He has proven to be an awsome dragon both in size and color. He is 21 1/4 inches long and weighes over 600 grams. He is extreamly aggressive with the ladies, but has a good enough temperment to handle.




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Seems Like a few things have been going wrong for Jeremy but I think I was mentioned above so figured I'd share what happened in my case here. I still would just love to know Jeremy who that breeder was that told you it was one of mine? Thanks

Matthew Maribo
www.mystical-Dargons.com

[KNOBTAIL]

other than hope that a potential buyer comes to the BOI and check on this guy before they get themselves, in the same position Wendy got into. At least Wendy has an animal, in most cases the buyer losses everything.

This herp business is an open wound for all the 2 legged bacterias that are around and seem to migrate to the unsuspecting, honest people who are willing to take the risk. Iam sure that their will be others............there always are!

Wendys loss could have been much worse, lets see what the chargeback from the credit card company does. JERRY

[cathyh]

Thanks for posting so that others can be aware of this persons dishonest practices!

[sparklypia]

Hi... new to this forum, but followed the thread from Beardeddragon.org.... that is terrible AND to me, that looks like TWO completely different dragons...good luck w/getting your $$ back!
~Pia

[Alias47]

I agree that these are the same animal.
I am not an expert...but I do not believe that this picture has been digitally altered...the slightly blurry look of the back scales appears to be due to pixelation of the digital camera.

To digitally alter this picture at this level would take more time than the extra money is worth.

It does appear that the light used in the top picture may have been red or orange (see the light coloration to the white sand?)
But I do not think it would have created such a dramatic effect.

Possible the animal was stressed from shipping?
I really don't know that much about beardies...

He obviously mirepresented the lineage...which in and of itself, when purchasing an animal specifically for breeding, should be a dealbreaker, but I don't know how much he misrepresented the actual appearance intentionally.

[Kakadu]

It is definatly the same animal, I am sure of that. From photographing hundreds of dragons I know that different camera angles and lighting can REALLY chaange a dragons color, no photoshop necessary. If I see that my camera angles or lights have done that to a dragon I retake the pictures because obviously there will be a problem when the dragon arrives at a new home. You know when your camera has enhanced the color, you know when the picture is dishonest.

This dragon has completely recovered from shipping, she is eating fine, basking fine, totally calm. Wendy has tried warm baths and all the other color tricks. She really tried to give Jermey lots of chances to make this deal work. She e-mailed me many times trying to justify the poor color, the bad communication, and even the lying about that dragon he claimed was from Matt's bloodline. I felt so bad for her because she is so trusting and this guy is obviously taking advantage of her. I just wish I could do more.


Thanks everyone to take the time to post.

[SNAKESDJF]

i am sorry to here about that. even looking at the pattern/size besides the coloration it doesn't even look like the same dragon in the 2 pics. regardless of his "all sales are final". he still falsely mislead you and mispresented the animal. i know it may cost money but i can almost bet you would win if you took him to court. i would also call the Visa investigations dept/unit and they may even go after him for the return. good luck wendy, and let me know what happens, dj

[Peruvianfanatic]

Looks like the same Beardie to me,whats the problem here?

[Kakadu]

Lets recap:
Color is falsely represented. E-mails described her as bright orange and that the picture represents her normal everyday color. In a weeks time she has not gotten near that color regardless of her basking, having warm baths, or even sleeping (sometimes they show their colors best when they sleep).

He was about 100 grams off on her weight.

He has not provided her bloodline info. Before the sale the bloodline info was promised along with pictures. This is an animal purchased for breeding, and withour bloodlines a responsible person will not breed an animal in a species with such a small gene pool. His attempts to buy time with the bloodline info are not consistant either. One day he says he bought the dragon from his friend, who got her from Dachiu, and this friend has all the info and pictures of the parents. The next day he rudly states that "Dachiu us an hour ahead of him" and it is too late to call after work. So, is he calling his friend or Dachiu? He is just buying time hoping Wendy will go away.

He was, as Mystical Dragons stated above, trying to sell an older male and representing him as being from Mystical Dragons. Got caught again in a lie when he tried to say the person who sold the dragon to him at a show had told him the male was from Mystical. The problem is that Mystical Dragons did not even exist at the time he said he bought the dragon, no site, no ads, ect. So he is saying that this breeder at this show looked into the future to make up a lie about it's bloodlines? What kinda show was he at?

He has represented himself as being a friend and business partner of another major breeder that I respect very much. This breeder has not posted here yet, so I am not going to name him. But I contacted him and he said he merely has had e-mail communication with this person and is in no way involved with him.

This person is unwilling to take back the dragon even though Wendy was willing to pay all return shipping costs.

This person is being totally unhelpful with Wendy's concerns about the color and the bloodline info, and is calling her frustrating and providing no help.

This person has been shown to lie, and even if bloodline info was produced, it would be unwise to trust him. It is impossible to belive that this dragon as had the care he initally stated (especially since he works all day and night at O'Charlies and can't even find time to write his friend for the bloodlines of this $500 dragon as stated in his e-mail above, how is he caring for all those dragons???). It is impossible to believe even her age, perhaps he just said she was the age Wendy inquired about just so that he could move her. With all the lies he has been caught in I would say it is probable.


This was a $500 purchase. What was delivered was not what was promised. Its very simple.

Jennifer

[SNAKESDJF]

Jennifer i totally agree with everthing you stated. this guy is really shady. dj

[sparklypia]

that's just horrible to do that...selling what is prob. a $35 dragon for $500! Guess I should have better stated, it IS the same dragon, I just meant that they LOOKED likek totally different animals.

[Bringerofdoom]

the more i think of this it is pursuable in a court of law. cause the lineage is a form of a pedigree, basic but to reptile owners its the only thing close to it.

case in point: my girlfriends parents owned one purebred jack russel male with papers. they found another person selling a jack russel female with papers. they got it for $200 , brought it home and started looking at this "pedigree form" they called me to look at it. turns out said pedigree form is a mail in form out of a magzine for a pedigree that they just fill out to get.

the problem to this is that anyone could get a pedigree for anything. the person even neglected to mail the form in to get it. this was the only paperwork available. the dog tho it looked like a jack russel in someways, is disqualified by the JRTCA (jack russel club of america) this is a place that has high standards. only the best of the best can be registered there only after proper things meet. thier male is registered to this

so needless to say the jack russell they bought to breed was a mutt and worthless to them. they tried numerous times to contact the lady to get their money back, but she pulled the all sales final crap. they eventually took her to court and won the case.


there should be someway you can get justice. not only has he missrepresented the color, but also the lineage. is there anyway you can go over him and contact daichu? he is indeed misrepresenting their breeds, maybe daichu has heard of him from other people he has ran scams on.

[Neverland Dragons]

I actually did email Vicki at Dachiu. She said if I can get the name of the person who bought the dragon and month/year she could verify the bloodline. She said that they keep records 5 years back for just this purpose. I have faxed alot of information to my visa company and I think I have a good chance of getting my money back through the dispute. He misrepresented her in several areas. Additionally, he did not state that he had an all sales are final policy. It has to be in writing before the sale. He did not indicate that in any of our email correspondance. He did say initially in email that he did not have the bloodline info. Then in my conversation with him he said he could get it for me. This has been a huge learning experience for me. Both on future purchases and also how I am going to set up my breeding program. I am a firm believer that what comes around goes around and he will eventually get what is coming to him. I am just glad that I have had the support of breeders like Jen at Kakadu and Matt at Mystical Dragons. They have been awesome. I will post as soon as I hear anything from my visa company.

Wendy Thomas

[Bringerofdoom]

i dont know how much this helps but i was noticing something. i was toying with colors, i took them both to the same different color to see differences. im doubting the BD in the picture is even the one you have, reguardless if he doctored the photo. i think he stole the photo from someone else. here is why
http://leopardgeckos.forplanetearth.com/1.jpg
http://leopardgeckos.forplanetearth.com/2.jpg

in the top pic you clearly see a X branded into the back of its head, zoom with any program (its perfectly shaped). the bottom pic doesnt have this.... the bottom pic also has a white part in its tail. the top pic doesnt show this. also most darkest in the middle section where most of the editing took place while the tail and head are lighter. you can also see all this in the unedited pictures too. but even when you compare them at the same color they dont look to be the same dragon. maybe one from the same clutch ie: the guy stole a pic of a hold back, but yet sold you a cheap pet quality one from that batch.

if this is the same dragon it would have to be several years older for that X to be worn off in sheds.

[Bringerofdoom]

closeups of this uniqe X for those who dont feel like checking it out themselves

jeremy's pic
http://leopardgeckos.forplanetearth.com/3.jpg

NcBeardies
http://leopardgeckos.forplanetearth.com/4.jpg
not the same to me, hopes this helps some.

[Kakadu]

New pics today. This is the best her color ever got.
http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/wendys.JPG

[Lynn]

I am so sorry this had to happen to you. It is people like that who make it hard for the honest breeders who really care about the reptiles they breed and sell. There is NO excuse for this..I do believe when it comes right down to it..A PERSON IS ONLY AS GOOD AS HIS WORD. When I give my word I try to stick to it.

Example....About 7 months ago I sold a pair of dragons as a girl and boy... OPPPS .. 7 months later they both turned out to be boys..What is the right thing to do...Do I give him a 2 month old female to raise?? NO.... I replaced the male with a female of the same size as his male he kept. Yes I lost about 300.00 on the deal as the female replacement was a holdback I saved for my future breeding... BUT it was the right thing to do.. I made the mistake..

Bottom Line.. He needs to send the dragon you paid for......

[tim5580]

I don't know if this helps you now, but sometimes I see ads where people take a picture of the animal on a $20 bill or with soda bottles so you can see that that the colors of the picture haven't been altered. I guess you could still change it in photoshop but it seems like it would be a big pain in the ass.

[Kakadu]

yeah, I have started taking pictures on sharpies so that people can see the colors. When buying a dragon from now on I think everyone should ask for some kind of color checker in the background.

http://www.kakadudragons.com/img/kd02006/kd02006_5.jpg

[Kakadu]

yeah, I have started taking pictures on sharpies so that people can see the colors. When buying a dragon from now on I think everyone should ask for some kind of color checker in the background.

http://www.kakadudragons.com/img/kd02006/kd02006_5.jpg

[Kakadu]

I though I would link this thread to another complaint thread on Jermey where he actually has responded:

http://www.reptiforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1633#post1633

[Bringerofdoom]

ok i proved this on reptiforum, but i feel it needs posted here as well along with a explanation.

http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/1108157072.jpg
thats jeremy's picture undisturbed

http://bongs4ever.reallysucks.com/betterjeremydragon.jpg
this is his picture with the red channel tweak 2x more. notice the similarities the 2 show? (discoloration on head and leg, the effect was applied to the entire beardie yet those didnt color up....)

when you tweak the channels colors between black and white remain virtually untouched. the rest match to the tone of the color. to show you what i mean ill flip the red channel

http://bongs4ever.reallysucks.com/greenbeardie.jpg

see even if the color gets completly flipped it still looks kind of real (purposly made it neon green).

you may wonder how much time this took? it only took me 6 mins, with a basic free trial editing program. i also have carpal tunnel at that. if i would have spent my time i could have done it with no errors. unlike jeremy though i didnt have $500 riding on a good scam job....

i still feel sorry for wendy, because of tim.

[Neverland Dragons]

Even if Jeremy did not retouch the photo, which maybe he didn't, who knows.... He clearly took a picture that made her colors look more favorable than they were. I am still in the disputing process with visa. I am not counting on things working out. The girl is now brumating. If I end up not getting my money back I will have to sell her at a loss. I can't in good conscience breed her. I can't believe any thing Jeremy said and he never came through with any bloodline info. I believe what comes around goes around and he will get what he deserves. I feel that she was not well taken care of. When I got her she weighed 350 grams. Within a month I had her up to 487 grams. At 14 months of age, she should not have gained that much weight so quickly. So I will consider her a rescue and I know where ever she ends up she will be better off.

Wendy Thomas

[W.Wedeking]

I don't know either party here however, when I looked at the pictures what I saw was:
In the first picture was a well heated dragon that had just shed.
In the second picture was the same dragon cold and about to shed (very obvious about the feet and ankles).

Just my observation.

[Neverland Dragons]

It may look like it, but that is not the case. He told me she had just shed her back before he sent her. The only part she had left to shed were her legs. They shed out and she still never showed the orange color represented in the picture. I took the picture after she had been basking. Lighting and a flash can do alot to make a dragon look brighter than they are. Thanks for taking the time to post.

Wendy Thomas

[Kakadu]

Jeremy is just a bad guy there is no way around it. Wendy would have paid all the sipping costs and everything to get this dragon back to him, and 100 grams HEAVIER. She would have even accepted this female and given up if Jermey had not lied about the bloodlines. Wendy is NOT an irresponsible breeder that will just throw any two dragons together without knowing the bloodline.

Jeremy has lied about the bloodline he tried to represent as being from Matt's line. He has LIED about the bloodline of the dragon he sold to Wendy. If "his friend" got the dragon from the Dachius then all he has to do is call or e-mail the Dachius and they have said they are very willing to look up the bloodlines IMMEDIATLY. Jeremy knows this dragon is not from the Dachius, that is why he is not providing it.

This thread is a warning that this guy is making up bloodlines and misrepresenting color. It is a WARNING to people to beware of this seller.

If you want to see a thread that Jeremy responed to please check here: http://www.reptiforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400&page=1&pp=10

[Kakadu]

Here is what is going on in the other forum:

Jeremy's post:
I felt I had to try and stand up for myself on this one. Wendy purchased this dragon from me for 500$. This is exactly what I paid for it. As you can see from the top picture she is a beautiful dragon. I told Wendy that she was in shed when I sent her and she would brighten up. Wendy actually sent me numerous e-mails proclaiming her pleasure with this bearded dragon. First she e-mailed me saying that she is eating very well, and she is very healthy, and later e-mailed me and stated that her colors were starting to show up. I believe those pictures were taken after being shipped in mid shed. Of course she isn't going to be in great coloration right now. This is a case of a novice entering a buisness that she knows very little about. In the past few years I have not recieved a single complaint, not to mention someone that would insult me the way this lady is doing. Wendy e-mailed me and asked me not to call her house to talk about this, and I listened. I take great pride in what I do, and I will be damned if I let some lady walk all over me. I have rights as a dealer to. It has been close to three weeks since I sent that dragon. If the community doesn't like it then I appoligize. I am sure that I have done buisness with half of you in the past. No refund will be provided. Wendy "Ruby" is going to color up for you, and you are going to be very pleased with her. If anyone has any questions or comments please feel free to e-mail me my address is fenton02@hotmail.com
Thanks for taking the time to read this Jeremy

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Wendy's Post:
This is not the case of a novice not knowing the girl is in shed. She is fully shed and is no where near the color in the picture emailed to me. Yes, she did color up some. She is healthy and is eating great. I believe that you used lighting to manipulate her color in the picture. She is not the bright orange you showed in the picture. You did misrepresent her when you sold her to me. I have been working with Jen from Kakadu Dragons to obtain my stock and she also feels you misrepresented this dragon you sold. Yes, Ruby is a nice dragon, but she is not the awesome color you sent in the picture. I have had her almost 2 weeks. She has had supplements, uvb, 110 basking, silkworms, butterworms, crickets, superworms, mustard greens, sweet potatoes, butternut squash and pellets. I have given her warm baths. She is not going to get any brighter. She is not in shed. You gave me so much misinformation that I really can't believe anything you say. You are obviously going to have a problem when the picture you send somebody does not match that of the animal you ship. There is also the fact that when I talked to you on the phone, I asked for bloodline information and you said you would get it. Yes, you had said you were getting it over and over and never came through. I have spoken with Vicki at Dachui and she said that they keep records 5 years back so all I need is the name of who purchased her. I could not in good conscience breed this girl without bloodlind information. You seem to have a problem with your facts and I do not feel that any information that you gave me is credible.

Wendy Thomas

and a new picture



Jeremy's Post:
Okay Wendy she is starting to color up. The difference in the color is very notable. There were not any special lights used, no secret budist monk tricks it was just Ruby. I am glad to hear you are taking such good care of her, and she looks to be doing great. Here color is comming slowly but surely. She is going to make you very proud soon. I have contacted the person I purchased her from numerouse times and he has not returned my phone calls. I got in contact with him recentl and he told me he would be finding out the bloodline and be getting me some pics of the parents. I am doing all I can. After she colors back up I want a full appoligy posted on here by you. Agian to the community watch this post about me being a fraud. This one is going to have a great ending. She will either stop posting remarks on here, or she will admit that she was wrong. If you know anything about lights in pictures you would know that they would show up in the glass, which is clearly not the case. My thanks to Jen in helping you with this matter, she has some awsome dragons, and seems to be a great person. Once again Wendy have a great evening, and take care Jeremy......

[Kakadu]

Here is her "starting to color up" as Jeremy says. Do you think she is coloring up?:
http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/wendys.JPG

Here is what she is supposed to look like, just a refresher in case you forgot. This is the Picture Jeremy sent to sell her with:
http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/1108157072.jpg


Ok, so your thinking maybe Wendy just takes bad pictures. Here is a picture of the dragon I sold her in the same lighting with the same camera:
http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/gladys.JPG

Here is the male she got from Mystical Dragons, again, SAME camera:
http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/herbie2.jpg

Here is what BOD managed to do with Jeremy's picture by changing colors. It proves that the sand color doesn't mean anything:
http://bongs4ever.reallysucks.com/greenbeardie.jpg


But even with this, lets remember that the dragon could be the best colored in the world but is WORTHLESS in such an inbred species as bearded dragons WITHOUT BLOODLINES.

[Kakadu]

So back to the other forum, here is what I posted to Jeremy:
Jermey, I thank you for your compliments on my dragons, but what you are saying here is simply not true. First, Wendy only needs the name of the person you got the dragon from, and she can have Dachiu look up the info. OR you can call the Dachius with the name, and they can forward the info to Wendy. They have already said they are happy to do it. You have been told this many times by Wendy. IF she was Truely from Dachiu, you could have dealt with this with one phone call.

Secondly, in selling hundreds of dragons over the years, and of photographing them (I have taken an individual picture of every single dragon I have ever sold) I know how lights, colors, and cameras work. I also have shipped HUNDREDS of animals of various ages, and work heavily with rescues in the off season when there are no babies. There are no dragons that take over a week to color up. When dragons get shipped 95% of the time they are showing thier best color asleep in the box. I have recieved many dragons, and this is almost always the case. If not, by the time they are settled and eating well they are showing their colors. It takes a day, maybe two at most. If you have not seen the colors in the course of basking, being misted, given a bath, eating ect. in two days, then they are not there (unless the dragon is in shed of course). But you sent Wendy an e-mail saying that she had just shed out.

But, color is certainly hard to repersent in photos. I have photos that sometimes come out too well, but I always tell the customer if I think a photo is being to nice to a dragon's color. I take pictures on white or very plain backgrounds, and I often put familiar objects in the pictures so the buyer can see how the camera changes the colors.

If it was just the color, I am positive that Wendy would not have had any problem. It has been your dismissive and at times insulting treatment of her requests for bloodline information. You just keep using the friend excuse and pretend not to hear that DACHIU has records, we only need the NAME. You have said multiple times your friend bought her straight from Dachiu.

She is also missing 100g of weight from what she was advertised as, and this is verified by the vet I believe for the credit card companies.

And there is also that little thing with Mystical Dragons, where you were lying about a dragon being from Matt's stock. And when Matt was told that you were saying this dragon was from his lines he informed you that his lines have only existed for a few months, and this much older dragon was not from his lines, all his babies are still juvis. And so you said that you bought it at a reptile show, and that is what you you were told. But at the time you said you bought this dragon from the show Mystical Dragons had not been created. It was just a possibility floating around in Matt's head. So this vender at this show looked into the future to lie about the dragons bloodlines.

Bloodlines are very important to Wendy. She can not breed this dragon because she does not know where it is from. She can not take your word for anything because you have made up bloodline info before, obviously not knowing how devastating inbreeding can be. She also bought this dragon to breed. Breeding is very hard on a dragon's body, and proper care is a must. She can not longer feel certain that this dragons care has been what you described it as, especially shince she has gained (Wendy needs to verify this I can't remember the numbers) around 10-15g in ths short time she has been there. That rapid weight gain is an indication that the dragon was not getting enough nutrients before. Again, I don't remember the exact gain, but I am sure Wendy will verify.

Wendy only wants to breed the very best stock. She does not want to breed just any dragon that is breedable. She is willing to breed a dragon with the color in the pictures you sent, from Dachiu bloodlines with verification, at a proper weight (350g at 18 months is extremely small), and only breed dragons that are at the peak of health.

What she has is a dragon with some color (nothing exceptional), no pedigree, no verification of age, no guaranteee this dragon isn't a worn out breeder, no guarantee this dragon has been well cared for, and no support or help from you.

This dragon certainly is not worth $500. With the total lack of information and the lack of color this dragon could maybe get $200, and only because she is a full grown female, if she was accuratly represented.




And here is his response:

So if you look at the pictures that you posted 3 days ago and look at the pictures you posted yesterday I would have to say she is starting to color up. I am through discussing this with you. You have a kick ass dragon... And are going to make tons of money breeding her. So either in good concience or not, if you decide not to breed her it is your own fault. I just want the community to take a look at all of this, and beware of Wendy purchasing from you. I am starting a new thread as a complaint on you. Jen thanks again for your concern in this matter, Ruby is a hot looking dragon... She is coloring up more and more everyday. This is the last time I will respond to this thread. The dragon is coloring up the difference in the two "horrible" pictures she posted are like night and day. Jen will you do me a favor and when Ruby is completly colored up post on here that you 2 were making false acusations about me. I did not rip this lady off. I sold her to Wendy for what I paid for her. I recieved the money and shipped, end of story. I still have the e-mails where she told me she was healthy, and that her colors "were really starting to show." So there is no longer a debate. Wendy got what she paid for. An awsome dragon. That dragon will do nothing but get more colorful. There are e-mails on here that state that she is the same dragon and I believe you said that their were not any "special lightings" used. And as far as background she is on sand for crying out loud. How is that going to alter the color of a dragon. I am still working on the bloodline info. I will not involve another person in this with Wendy. You two take care and give me some credit when she colors up please. Thanks Jeremy

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SO I RESPONDED:
Once again, she is not coloring up, that is just her fired up color. Its the best she gets. It is better then the first pic, but it is not a process that is imroving over time. It is the best color that she gets. She has a daily range or color like all dragons, that is her most colorful. Wendy, feeling that she needs to be fair posted the new picture because it is better then the first, but NOT $500. This was to be fair to you, it is not evidence that she is coloring up.

BUT COLOR TOTALLY ASIDE:

AGAIN, Wendy would probably have been ok with the color, but she WILL NOT EVER breed a dragon without the bloodline info. To even suggest that she should breed a dragon without knowing its heritage is HORRIBLY irresponsible in this already inbred species. Wendy, unlike most, is NOT breeding dragons for money. She is hoping to improve the stock in the United States because what is happening to our genetic here is awful. SHE CAN NOT BREED THIS DRAGON. She will never put her desire to breed an animal over the health of an animal. This dragon has gained a LOT of weight in the short 2 weeks she has owned her, this shows that she had not been getting the care you promised. So, even with her bloodline she can not be bred for 6 months because she needs so much care.


SHE IS 100 GRAMS LESS THEN YOU ADVERTISED HER AS.

If you are really trying to help you need to stop pretending to hear this:

DACHIU CAN LOOK UP THE PEDIGREE OF ALL ANIMALS THEY HAVE SOLD JUST WITH THE NAME OF THE BUYER. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CALL AND THEY SAID THEY ARE GLAD TO HELP.

The truth is she is not from there and there is no freind. How can you say Wendy got what she paid for.

The dragon is not from Dachiu.
The dragon is NOT the color you described and sent a picture of.
This dragons is VERY underweight for an adult dragon.
This dragon is 100 grams less then you advertised her as.

If you provide her pedigree from Dachiu, the dragon turns out to be in shed (because that is the only way to justify this color difference), and you refund Wendy $150 to account for the weight difference then I will say you are doing the right thing.

Wendy is not trying to take advantage of she. She has told you that she will return the dragon and pay ALL shipping costs, and you get an animal back that is in even better weight and condition then when it left. If it really such a nice dragon, then you should have no problem reselling it. Wendy on the other hans could never get $500 for it because she would represent it HONESTLY which lowers its value to about $200-$250 on a good day.

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To which he replied:

This is your opinion. Good luck there will be no refunds. Jeremy

So once again I tried to point out the difference between FACTS and OPINIONS:
These are facts.

You have not provided the bloodline information that was promised. The dragon is 100 grams lighter then you represented her being.

Dachiu says call anytime and they will LOVE to look up the info for you, no problem whatsoever. You only need to make a SINGLE phone call, and the information is available.

We are tired of you avoiding these FACTS.

The color can be opinion (though it is an obvious misrepresentation), but these are FACTS.

Visa is looking into the charge back as we speak.

Buyers beware of this seller. He does not sell quality animals and he DOES NOT STAND BEHIND HIS ANIMALS.

[Kakadu]

New picture to update her "coloring up"

First the old pic that Jeremy sent Wendy of her:
http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/1108157072.jpg

And the New PIC from yesterday:
http://www.faliastx.com/wendy/Camera%20Picture%202.jpg

[CheriS]

A 350 gram dragon is NOT breeder quality, she should NEVER be breed, never sold as breeder quality......I don't care what color she is.

She is a pet quality dragon, no matter what color she is and as such is worth about $200 max as a full grown adult. She does not have a value as a breeder and Jeremy, stating she is going to make a ton of money off babies is just dumb, this dragon should not ever be breed.

If she was 450 grams, knowing you can put some weight on them and in the first picture she does look thin, then MAYBE she might have been potential breeder quality... but not what she is.

[Canyon State]

wendy i have read everything on this thread, and personly i think his name should not be heikil it should be kikel as in kikel iche ickenstien becuase i think it was a very jewish thing he pulled money over reptiles wendy if i had the extra cash i would buy the berdie from you even tho i am not a lizard guy at all just to help make it right for you this guy should be publicly stoned in front of the intire herp community in fact i would love to do it my self but unfortunatly law prohibits that. and another thing if anybody was to sell me something that was not what i bought i would hunt them down and rip there throat out but hey thats just me. but i really do hope you get justice in this if not his day will come and soembody will get mighty upset with him and take there own actions. like the old saying every dog has his day and soon that mutt will get his.

sorry again for your misfortune
sincerly doc

[Alias47]

I have seen posts from Wendy RECENTLY claiming that she is a new breeder...and is just learning.


Funny that she has all these years of breeding experience...with only the BEST stock available (a quote from Kakadu!!)...

...and has to ask how to breed a leo...and how to incubate the eggs.




Sounds kind of fishy to me...

Of course it wasn't on this forum...on this forum she is "SUPERBREEDER of ANYTHING REPTILE"...she goes to the other forums to ask her questions on what to feed a cornsnake...or something else that would be second hand to someone with the amazing herpetological skills that she possesses.

Ridiculous.

[reptilebreeder]

I have seen posts from Wendy RECENTLY claiming that she is a new breeder...and is just learning.


Funny that she has all these years of breeding experience...with only the BEST stock available (a quote from Kakadu!!)...

...and has to ask how to breed a leo...and how to incubate the eggs.




Sounds kind of fishy to me...

Of course it wasn't on this forum...on this forum she is "SUPERBREEDER of ANYTHING REPTILE"...she goes to the other forums to ask her questions on what to feed a cornsnake...or something else that would be second hand to someone with the amazing herpetological skills that she possesses.

Ridiculous.

Are you saying she is the fraud, instead of the person that ripped her off? Maybe you should start a thread about a bad girl, but you might want to actually show some proof. I'm only going from this thread, where she actually states that she is new to breeding, and in another of her posts (on this thread) she states she has learned some things that she will utilize as she starts her new breeding efforts (or something to that effect). As far as a breeder just starting out, with nothing but the best breeder stock, what is so unusual about that?

something sounds fishy alright.

[Alias47]

I absolutely and unreservedly apologize.
I hadn't gone back to the first page again to refresh.


This is NOT the thread I thought I was in and unintentionally remarked about the wrong person...although the name is VERY close to being the same.

My apologies to Wendy and Kakadu. I am sorry for the mistake.


And there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with using the ABSOLUTE best stock...if this was in the correct thread, it would have had the correct connotation.

[jenexotic]

I have a question for wendy. You said that your from Tarheel reptiles right? because there is either another tarheel or you are also with them and that would include you in the bad guy report on this forum. I am just curious because Tarheel is not a common name or anything, and the locations are diffrent. I don't know if someone is using your business name or what but I thought you would like to know about the bad guy report made on Tarheel.

[jenexotic]

here is the link http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51109&highlight=tarheel to the bad guy report.

p.s why is tarheel done in red?

[Alias47]

When you do a search...the keywords you used to search are highlighted in red throughout the thread.

[Neverland Dragons]

Hi Everyone-

I am in the process of obtaining top quality bearded dragons to start a breeding program. I chose the name TarHeelDragons.com as my website that I am in the process of working on. I am not affiliated in any way with either of those 2 people. I am in North Carolina and that is why I chose that name.
I might have to come up with something more unique and less likely to be confused with the other breeder.

Thx- Wendy Thomas

[reptilebreeder]

I absolutely and unreservedly apologize.
I hadn't gone back to the first page again to refresh.


This is NOT the thread I thought I was in and unintentionally remarked about the wrong person...although the name is VERY close to being the same.

My apologies to Wendy and Kakadu. I am sorry for the mistake.


And there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with using the ABSOLUTE best stock...if this was in the correct thread, it would have had the correct connotation.

Well done.
I do know which thread your previous comments concerning a Wendy were about though :rotflmao:

[Alias47]

Glad you understand...

This would have been a very relevant comment....if it were posted in the right place.


:shrug01:

[jenexotic]

I didn't think it was the same place, the locations are diffrent. I just thought I would let you know that someone is using the same name of tarheel. this happend not to long ago that someone was using i think Jungle Jems and ripping people off, then the actual person who has the name Jungle Jems as a registered business had to come on and ask them to stop using the name. I have been folling this thread and when I coulden't find it I remembered from the Reptibid thread you said you were tarheel and when i typed that in the search, the other thread also came up. I don't know what would be easier, getting a new name or defending it everytime this joker rips someone off. Good luck with your dragons, I look foward to seeing the off spring!

Jennifer Pellette

[Neverland Dragons]

I have a little bit of an update. I received a letter from visa today along with the copy of Jeremy's rebuttal letter. Visa took back the $535 and said I could send in a rebuttal to his rebuttal..........I did that this afternoon. He just told more lies and I got upset all over again. I did find out that the email he sent me with her picture was one the person who sold her sent to him. Now, how can her verify any authenticity of a photo that he did not take? He tried to tell them he requested an updated photo from me and I refused to give it to him. He had put a post on the repti-forum about a current photo and I had not seen it. I did post an updated picture when it was brought to my attention. He twisted the whole situation to look like I refused to send any photos of her. He of course did not mention the discrepency in her weight. He also said that he only knew the first name of the guy he bought her from and he has not ever called him back with bloodline info. He told me that he bought her from his buddy, so I was confident he would get me her bloodline info. He said it took 2 days to ship her when it was only about 15 hours. I could go on and on. He is just a liar and bends the truth to fit his needs. When this is all over I am going to take the good away and throw the bad out with the garbage. It has definitely been a learning experience. I will let you know if anything new comes up.

Thx-

Wendy Thomas

[Neverland Dragons]

I was surprised to find an email from Jeremy on Christmas Eve telling me to ship Ruby back and he would refund my money. I was guardedly optimistic. But, I have emailed Jeremy 3 or 4 times to confirm that some one would be home to sign for Ruby and have not received a reply. He may just be busy and I am not a priority. There may be extenuating circumstances that I am unaware of. It appears that he changed his mind and is ignoring me altogether, but as I stated, I will reserve judgment until all is said and done.

Wendy Thomas

[Neverland Dragons]

I spoke with Jeremy on the phone Wednesday and he agreed to take her back and refund my money. I shipped her yesterday and she was delivered this morning. So far so good. I will let you know how it all turns out.

Wendy Thomas

[Bringerofdoom]

good luck wendy

[Neverland Dragons]

I should have known this would not end quietly. I was waiting to get my visa refunded before writing my final post. As of yet, I have not received a credit on my account. He has started a bad guy thread about me on another forum. That is o.k. The more he posts, the more lies come out and the more people will see what a dishonest person he is. He is now trying to sell her for $600 and says I do not know what I am talking about, she is neon orange. He is trying to make me out to be the bad guy and it is simply not the case. Unless, trying to start a reputable breeding program with strong unrelated lines makes me a bad guy. Which last time I checked, does not.

Thx- Wendy Thomas

[Neverland Dragons]

o.k. folks, I do believe we have a happy ending. My card was never refunded as Jeremy stated when I shipped his lizard back, but the dispute was settled today and my card will be credited. It took my visa threatening arbitration to finally settle this. This has been a long drawn out process. Thanks for all of your comments and support. I especially want to thank Jennifer Graef for her time and unending support with this. She has been great. Thanks again.

Sincerely

Wendy Thomas

[Bringerofdoom]

WOW, he ask for you to ship the lizard back in a failed effort to clear his name and STILL ripped you off again. JEREMY is SCUM! thankfully you came to a resolution and someone finally settled. TOO bad jeremy never could own up to any of his lies.

It still amazes me he would start a bad buy thread about you on reptiforum, when he had no intention on refunding the money.

im really curious here, i wonder if jeremy was using that old picture trying to find another buyer and once he found one he contacted you back. He did say on the other post on reptiforum he would be able to sell her for $600 now. He shure seemed confident on that too, when many better dragons sell for half that price.

[Neverland Dragons]

I just hope she finds a good home. She really was a sweet girl and it was obvious that he was not taking proper care of her. I bet he will try to sell her again. I just hope that people check the obi before doing business with him. I did and nothing came up. That certainly won't be the case for the next person searching. That is the reason I did this thread to begin with.

Wendy Thomas

[Arnold8169]

Hey guys I just wanted to let everyone know that he is selling high quality reds, yellows, and oranges on repti-bid right now. He's selling them in 10 lots for 350 under the name BeardedDragon. I e-mailed him some specific questions and he beat around the book about the dragons lineage. Here is a couple pictures that he sent me of some of the dragons. Maybe he is using someone elses photos? Anyway, I don't have a repti-bid account but he is ripping folks off good right now if what you guys are saying about color is true! When will he stop this fraud?? Here is a copy of the e-mail that he sent me.


From: "jeremy heikel" <fenton02@hotmail.com>
Date: 2005/01/23 Sun AM 01:31:45 NST
To: jenkeli621@charter.net
Subject: RE: dragons for sale....

Move To:

Sure if you send me you telephone number I can have a few of my customers
call you. I inclosed a few pics of some reds oranges and yellows. The
parents pics are of my oranges. I don't have a reputation on reptibid yet
because I have been selling almost entirely through e-mails. The dragons I
am selling really should be sold seperatly they are great looking reptiles
but I do not have the time. And yes I can mix up the 10 lots. If you buy a
20 lot I will knock off 20$. I know you are thinking thats really not a
whole lotta money, but it really is when you consider that I usually sell
for 75-125 a piece.
Jeff Janes

[Neverland Dragons]

I don't know what his deal is. I do think he misrepresented the dragon he sold me. He even told visa the picture he sent me was the one that was sent to him when he bought her. He did not even take the photo. I would not trust him to send an accurate picture. I don't even think he is using his real name. Or, maybe he has someone helping him.

Wendy Thomas

[Arnold8169]

Go to:
http://spudsdragons.com/

And look through his pictures. You will see that he is using pictures from this site and sending them to people who demand pictures of the dragons they are recieving from him!! He should go to jail! What goes around comes around!!

Jeff Janes

[Neverland Dragons]

It is funny, I was talking to Jen at Kakadu Dragons and we both thought that those pictures looked like Spud's Dragons. I am just glad you found out before you purchased anything. It feels good to know the thread is helping other people from being taken advantage of.

Wendy Thomas

[RobertW]

Wendy,
Sorry you got scammed by this guy. I have to add that the two dragons pictured are not in my opinion the same dragon. Though there are similarities... the white stripesacross the back are differant if you look at the first three from the neck you'll see a big differance there. I also posted to Jeffs thread about my experience with him......His phone number if you don't have it is...334-737-3840 unless that's fake too.... If not you can get his mailing address from that if you don't have it yet...
\
Hope it works out and you get your money back.

Later,
Robert Wood

[RobertW]

well just read that you are getting refunded so I guess disregard my post..... Congrats.

Robert Wood

[dmasio]

Watch out this degenerate is starting his BS again. I just posted a female BP that weighs 1375 grams on this site and another one (we all know which) and a guy emailed me back staing someone was using my pic to sell a snake that he did not have I told him to get this guys name, email, blah blah blah and sure enough its this Jeremy Heikel. Just to let you know this is the pic he is using Dont deal with this P.O.S

[dmasio]

Watch out this degenerate is starting his BS again. I just posted a female BP that weighs 1375 grams on this site and another one (we all know which) and a guy emailed me back staing someone was using my pic to sell a snake that he did not have I told him to get this guys name, email, blah blah blah and sure enough its this Jeremy Heikel. Just to let you know this is the pic he is using Dont deal with this P.O.S :firedevil

[critical bill]

Stealing photos comes as no surprise.....considering this is the same guy who colors up his bearded dragons.