PDA

View Full Version : The Osmosis Project - Potential New Gene


snowgyre
07-09-2015, 10:42 AM
CAUTION: THERE WILL BE DEAD SNAKE PHOTOS IN THIS THREAD.

I've written about my dinker project, the Osmosis, on here before, but I figured it was time to clean up the timeline a bit, as the previous thread occurred over several years (original thread here: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292608). Since some folks thought I sold this project when my car died last fall, I wanted to create a dedicated thread not only for everyone to keep track of a potential new gene with me, but also to assure you all that I haven't given up on this project given that updates have been slow.

In July 2010, I purchased the founding female from a fellow in Texas. At the time I was a graduate student, so forking out $150 + shipping was a bit painful for me (but well worth it now). She's been a finicky feeder from the start, only eating about 20 food items a year, and I've struggled to keep her at 1500 grams. I've let her make the decision about breeding because of it, so progress proving out the gene has been a little slow. That, and a few accidents have gotten in the way too.

Clutch records for founding Osmosis female:
2010 - unknown pairing by original owner. Clutch of 5 eggs lost due to the clutch being dropped.
2011 - didn't breed, couldn't get her weight up
2012 - Osmosis x 100% het pied male. 5 eggs. Incubator malfunction made 4 eggs die at pipping. 5th baby survived, but didn't thrive. He's currently in the care by a friend of mine because he may not be suitable for breeding. Still alive today, but small. I chose to breed her to a het pied male because she had strong railroad tracks, and I wanted to rule out that she was simply a spectacular het for pied.
2013 - Osmosis x calico. 4 eggs. 2.1 calicos 1.0 normal. Paired her to a calico to rule out arroyo/rio. Calico babies did not have the forced dorsal stripe the arroyo imposes on calico. 2.0 calicos look like a combination gene. 1.0 normal I'm confident is at the very least a heterozygous Osmosis. 0.1 calico is high-white, so influence of the Osmosis gene is difficult to discern.
2014 - rejected all males, didn't breed
2015 - rejected her sons, didn't breed

I'm fairly confident I am working with, at the very least, a dominant trait. Even given the incubator malfunctions of the first clutch, all babies showed highly reduced patterning, dorsal striping, and almost a complete lack of alien heads. In the second clutch, the two male calicos are extremely dark and reduced pattern. The male 'normal' has railroad stripes down the belly, a dorsal stripe, and a reduced pattern. The female calico is a high-white individual, so she's the only offspring I'm unsure has the gene.

Given that all offspring (except for the female calico, of which I am unsure) have displayed a similar pattern to my founding female, I suspect my founding female may be the super form. If this was simply a dominant gene, I would expect only 50% of offspring to exhibit the reduced pattern, dorsal striping, lack of alien heads, and railroad belly tracks. Of 9 offspring, a minimum of 8 (and possibly all 9) have displayed these traits.

My plan for 2015 is to attempt breed the founding female back to her sons. If she does not pair with her sons, I will breed her to (probably) a disco yellowbelly possible het ghost male.

Her son and daughter calicos are locked today. I will be rotating the female calico among her three brothers (2 calicos and 1 'normal') until she ovulates.

I will be attaching photos to the next posts in chronological order. The first four photos are:

1. Founding Osmosis female.
2. First pairing in 2012: Osmosis x spectacular 100% het pied male
3. 2012 clutch results: incubator malfunction killed 4 of 5 eggs at pipping. Last baby did not thrive. He's still alive, under the care of a friend, but probably not breedable.
4. Surviving 2012 baby

snowgyre
07-09-2015, 10:50 AM
5. 2013 pairing: Osmosis x calico. I don't have a photo of the lock, but here is a photo of the sire when he was younger.
6. 2013 pairing: Osmosis ovulation
7. 2013 clutch: From left to right, 1. Osmosis calico male, 2. (Osmosis?) calico female, 3. osmosis calico male, 4. osmosis male.
8. 2013 clutch with a normal in the upper right for comparison. The normal was sired by the same calico male (x normal) that fathered the osmosis clutch to rule out possible pattern and color effects by the father. Starting in the upper right and going clockwise: 1. unrelated normal female from calico x normal clutch, 2. (osmosis?) calico female, 3. osmosis male, 4. osmosis calico male, 5. osmosis calico male

snowgyre
07-09-2015, 10:55 AM
9. A comparison shot between a female arroyo (purchased directly from Dan Wolfe) and the 2013 osmosis male.
10. One of the osmosis calico males, photo taken in 2014
11. The other osmosis calico male, photo taken in 2014
12. The potential osmosis calico female, photo taken in 2014

snowgyre
07-09-2015, 10:59 AM
13. belly shot of founding female
14. belly shot of sole survivor of 2012 clutch
15. belly shot of osmosis male from 2013 clutch
16. Pairing today, 9 July 2015: osmosis calico male x osmosis? calico female

SPJ
07-09-2015, 11:40 AM
NICE!!!!
I really like the looks of these.

snowgyre
10-17-2015, 09:44 AM
Got a solid ovulation today from my possible calico osmosis female. I felt five follicles in her, maybe six. Looks like the founding female osmosis may breed this year too. I've witnessed flirting with her "normal" osmosis son, but no definitive locks yet. I'm hoping to prove a super form this year. I strongly suspect the founding female is actually a super, but can't rule out just insanely good odds (9 of 9 babies over 2 clutches and two fathers expressing the gene) until I hatch a super like her.

Pasodama
10-19-2015, 09:06 PM
Founding mom has a great look. Offspring are very nice too. They also have some interesting bellies.
Fingers crossed, on a nice clutch from the Calico (Osmosis?) female, and that the founding female decides to breed!
Curious to see what is produced.

XxBLUExX
11-23-2015, 12:52 AM
Very beautiful, eagerly awaiting to see what you get!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

snowgyre
02-16-2016, 07:48 PM
All four eggs hatched about 2 weeks ago, but I was so busy I didn't have a chance to post the update until now.

Although I hatched what I consider are four very nice calicos, I did not get what I would consider to be a super osmosis calico. I will wait for them to age before I try to determine whether all, a few, or none got the osmosis gene (osmosis calicos tend to have a unique hue).

There are three possibilities I can see so far with this project:
1. The female possible osmosis calico is just a very nice calico, so no super was produced because she didn't have the osmosis gene.
2. Bad odds... I only had a 25% chance of hitting a super with a single gene x single gene pairing, so maybe I just missed it.
3. Osmosis is a dominant harlequin gene with no super.

So far it looks like I have one male and three females. I will be keeping one female (haven't decided which yet), but the rest of the clutch I will probably sell. I simply can't keep them all. I may also sell the osmosis calico adult male in picture 3 in post 3, haven't made up my mind yet.

Snake-Queen
02-16-2016, 09:58 PM
The founding female is awesome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Deuce
03-17-2016, 03:45 AM
How exciting! They're very beautiful; I can't wait to see updates on this project.

snowgyre
03-23-2016, 03:21 PM
Well well well, I had to threaten selling her I guess for the founding female osmosis to get interested in breeding again. I had her paired with her son to try for supers for the past two days, but she wasn't interested. Threw my disco yellowbelly male in there last night out of frustration and bam! Lock! You go dude! I'll be throwing my male fire yellowbelly cinnamon ghost in there too in another week or so. Since she's already paired I'm not going to try for a super this year (otherwise the offspring would be too confusing if multiple sires), but I had just about given up hope on this girl! She's in deep blue in this photo so her colors are bleh.

phoenix-cry
03-23-2016, 06:17 PM
I guess she's not interested in letting you find out if there is a super form! Does this mean you're keeping the project? I think I saw you had it up for sale. She really is stunning, even in blue.

snowgyre
03-23-2016, 09:05 PM
I had two calico osmosis males from her second clutch. I'm keeping one but just sold the other. I'm also selling the three calico males from her daughter x son pairing. I never refreshed the advertisement because I was only of half-a-mind to sell it to begin with. Nobody took advantage of my temporary weakness, so I'm keeping them now. ;-)

phoenix-cry
03-23-2016, 09:10 PM
I almost sold my black pastel pied female a few years back, I'm so glad I got no offers!

Big Borg Reptiles
03-23-2016, 09:37 PM
I had two calico osmosis males from her second clutch. I'm keeping one but just sold the other. I'm also selling the three calico males from her daughter x son pairing. I never refreshed the advertisement because I was only of half-a-mind to sell it to begin with. Nobody took advantage of my temporary weakness, so I'm keeping them now. ;-)

This is me with a bunch of stuff, I'll put an ad up for a day and delete it after I sleep on it. I saw the ad and found it pretty interesting, good luck on getting it figured out. Super cool female.

Dro B
04-25-2016, 08:01 PM
I'm definitely intrigued after seeing this clutch. Are you planning to keep any? It would be awesome if you were the first to prove a super calico, and the breeders out there who know that dominants don't exist might see the possibility as an added incentive and maybe youd get more for them as well.

Dro B
01-21-2017, 03:14 PM
All four eggs hatched about 2 weeks ago, but I was so busy I didn't have a chance to post the update until now.

Although I hatched what I consider are four very nice calicos, I did not get what I would consider to be a super osmosis calico. I will wait for them to age before I try to determine whether all, a few, or none got the osmosis gene (osmosis calicos tend to have a unique hue).

There are three possibilities I can see so far with this project:
1. The female possible osmosis calico is just a very nice calico, so no super was produced because she didn't have the osmosis gene.
2. Bad odds... I only had a 25% chance of hitting a super with a single gene x single gene pairing, so maybe I just missed it.
3. Osmosis is a dominant harlequin gene with no super.

So far it looks like I have one male and three females. I will be keeping one female (haven't decided which yet), but the rest of the clutch I will probably sell. I simply can't keep them all. I may also sell the osmosis calico adult male in picture 3 in post 3, haven't made up my mind yet.

Was this clutch from an animal that could be a super calico? Kind if hoping you've done research and at the very least accepted that there's a possibility and that 1 calico x calico where the person didn't even attempt to prove the offspring as super is enough to justify the putre incinuation that there isn't a super, or that the super pin and leo look identical to the base gene and that is likely to be the case with calico. Also I would gaurantee that bieng the first to prove it out would put you on the front page of the reptile report and probobly even earn a "sticky" on the side of the front page.

snowgyre
08-05-2017, 11:29 AM
So this year my founding female still wouldn't pair to her holdback sons, so I threw in my fire yellowbelly cinnamon ghost. I got six eggs, and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. Some of these have potential, but none are what I would consider smoking guns. So either I just had terrible odds on this clutch, or osmosis reacts quite subtly with other genes. I'm not sure.

snowgyre
08-05-2017, 11:30 AM
More photos: