I do miss them....

[WebSlave]

:(

Giving up my indigos when I lived in Maryland to move down to Florida was definitely one of the drawbacks of that decision. I loved the hell out of those guys. Probably one of my fondest memories was when my first clutch hatched out on my birthday one year. I stood there with a double handful of beautiful baby eastern indigo snakes and just stared at them.

Heck, it's breeding season right now for those guys, isn't it?

[gila7150]

Yup....breeding season for Drymarchon is just getting started. I can definitely relate with you on the frustration of being a Floridian and a indigo lover :)
I've compensated by keeping Texas indigos, Black Tail, Yellow Tail and Unicolor cribos. The Texas indigos are just awesome animals to keep and have very similar dispositions to the easterns.

My Black Tails and Unicolors are breeding right now. Here's one of my Black Tails hatchlings from this year getting it's first view of the world.
<img src=http://gila.fieldherpers.com/Photos/btcegg.jpg>

[oldherper]

Hey Chris!

What's up? Haven't heard from you for a bit. You still covered up with Blacktail babies?

Gerald

[gila7150]

Hey Gerald,
You bet. I'm just now getting to the point where I have some consistantly eating unscented F/T fuzzies. Just about all of them are reliable eaters on fish scented (which is so easy that I haven't made great efforts to switch them over).
Next year should be a blast if I end up with unicolor hatchlings too :) Seriously though, the challenge of working with these hatchlings has been kinda fun.

Did you find a male YT to pair up with your big female?

[oldherper]

Oh, yeah. I've ended up with 2.4 adult Y/Ts for this season. They are breeding now. My rubidus and unis are breeding, too. So, like you said....should be fun. If that big Y/T female takes, I wouldn't be surprised if she drops 30 or more eggs. I could end up with 70 or 80 baby drys to start. Just shoot me....

[Robert Seib]

Hi Rich,

Florida will allow you to have a single sex of Drymarchon couperi if you are using them for educational purposes, like showing them to your kids' classmates at school.

The state won't let you have both sexes lest you breed them, but you can have a couple of snakes of a single sex. Of course you have to buy them from one of the many out of state breeders.

Best of luck,
robert

[gila7150]

I could end up with 70 or 80 baby drys to start. Just shoot me....

(LOL) Maybe we should form a support group.


Florida will allow you to have a single sex of Drymarchon couperi if you are using them for educational purposes, like showing them to your kids' classmates at school.

I know that this is F&W's official position but I haven't heard of anyone who has actually been able to obtain a couperi permit in recent years. A friend of mine actually does educational talks for FL F&W and has been not been able to obtain a permit despite trying for a few years.
I asked the F&W officer who does my venomous inspections how I would go about getting an educational permit for a single couperi. His response was "you aien't".

From what I've heard it's virtually impossible to get a permit now....although I'd love to hear that I'm wrong about this.

[Robert Seib]

I'm sorry to learn this....

[thesnakeman]

So you are breeding unis? PLease put me on your' list for a pair when they hatch! I am trying to start a colony. Serliously write me down! And thanks for being here!
T.

[gila7150]

My unis are locked up right now as I'm typing. I cracked the window tonight because the temps were in the high 60's. I just checked in on them and they are locked up.
This is actually the first time I've witnessed copulation with any of my Drys. Last year I was never able to catch my BT's in the act.
My male uni is one of Dan Felice's hatchlings that I raised up and I got my female from Bobby Lee a couple years ago.

I'm definitely pretty excited about it.

[WebSlave]

Originally posted by Robert Seib
Hi Rich,

Florida will allow you to have a single sex of Drymarchon couperi if you are using them for educational purposes, like showing them to your kids' classmates at school.

The state won't let you have both sexes lest you breed them, but you can have a couple of snakes of a single sex. Of course you have to buy them from one of the many out of state breeders.

Best of luck,
robert

Yeah, this is a sensible approach! :nuts: Sure would be a crime for someone to actually breed a species that is being protected because of habitat destruction causing their decline. So the only way you can have one is if you take it OUT of the gene pool by keeping it a captive, separated from other breeing capable adults ...... Duh.....

[gila7150]

They do it that way for one reason....ease of enforcement. If Floridians were able to breed their indigos and sell the offspring F&W would have to keep track of all these animals and it would be difficult to determine CBB from WC. If everyone just has one indigo that is registered to them and can't sell them it takes a lot less effort to enforce.

I agree that their logic seems flawed but it makes their job a lot easier. The same thing could be said about the possession limit of one for the Florida pinesnake.

[WebSlave]

Just my opinion, but I don't believe the prime criteria of a law should be ease of enforcement. The prime criteria should be "what is it's purpose and will the law help accomplish it?"

Conservation based laws should help conserve the resource they target. If a law is too dificult to enforce, and making it "easy" hinders it's ultimate goal, then the law is contrary to common sense and the intent of the law itself.

Captive breeding programs alleviate a LOT of the incentive for collectors removing animals from wild populations. THAT makes enforcement easier because there aren't so many people out there trying to snag indigo snakes off of the roads.

Rarity increases value, which increases incentive for people to break the law. If captive produced indigo snakes were plentiful enough to where the price was $50 each, why would someone run the risk of a stiff fine and a criminal record to go catch one in the wild?

[thesnakeman]

Even if the price were 500 bucks each, it would still be cheeper than the possible penalty of taking a specimen from the wild. The Fl. Fish& Game folks could easily tag each captive specimen with a numbered electronic chip implant. Detectable with a scanner. The animal shelters use them already on dogs 7 cats that are adopted out. Heck,...my cat has one! And they would know right off the bat if that chip were one of their own because of the numbers it would display on the scanner. It wouldn't be any mopre difficult than it is now to keep track of and enforce. The problem is that the laws are written by buracrats who are being influenced by the wrong people;ie, the humane society, and peta. I agree with your analagy whole heartedly! So what we need is another way to influence the powers that be, in the RIGHT direction. I have preeched this before, and will continue to do so, until the right people get with it, and help me make it happen. I am talking about a National Herp. Society. This is just one of many battle fronts were we could fight back against the influence of those who don't have a clue what is right.
T.

[epidemic]

Tony,

PARC is such an organization. Though they are more "science" based, they are very open to the private sector and could very easily become a great ally to such in the near future

http://www.parcplace.org/

Also, they will be hosting their annual Southeast conference meeting in Hot Springs, AR February 25-27 2005

http://www.parcplace.org/SERegional.htm

I had better see you there, and don’t forget your fishing gear!
It would seem as though some laws are designed to protect a species to death. I find it odd that FL maintains the same position regarding Pituophis mugitus, as it does D. couperi, minus the required permit. While the law is to make enforcement easier on an already over burdened group of enforcement officers, much like Arizona’s law regarding Heloderma.
One would be hard pressed to find a neonate, or even yearling, D. couperi in the wild, so I believe the distinction could be easily recognized based on age, in conjunction with
micro-chipping adult captives.
Unfortunately, the “powers” that be do not agree with such logic, though they allow incidental take permits, for a nominal fee.

Jeff Snodgres

[thesnakeman]

Jeff,
Sounds like a plan! Thanks for the info.! I will check out the website later. Right now I have snake doodoo to clean. Go ahead and send me all the particulars for the meet in Feb.. Also, I wouldn't mind knowing where to go to see some couperi in the wild.
T.