Horribly Neglected BP

[Kmay571]

So I work at a LPS. We had someone drop off a pied, and I was a few hours until I got in and saw it. There was a nasty rat bite up hear it's throat, and pretty severe burns on his belly. There are spots that are just black and crispy.

Here's the problem. We don't have a reptile vet within an hours drive. Being at the pet store, we don't have the means to transport a snake any farther than that.

I do have vet supplies at the store, medications, ointments, bandages, syringes, etc.

I have removed all the pine shavings that were stuck in the wound and let him soak for 15 minutes in dechlorinated water. I cleaned out the wound completely and checked for debris or infection and it was clear. We have an aloe plant and I applied some to his belly burns, hoping that might soothe the pain. He is in a sterilized tank with paper towels, a hide, and a water bowl.

He will spend a lot of time on his back, which I assume is to try and stop the pain.

What ointments can I apply to the wound and the burns? And how often?
Can I bandage the rat bite at all?
Would soaking him help or hurt?
When should I try to feed him? (He appears at a healthy weight)
What can I do to help alleviate the pain?

I will post pictures before I clean out the wound tomorrow. This poor snake breaks my heart.


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[Deuce]

That's absolutely disgusting (of the previous keeper). Poor thing. First off, you should be 100% positive that it's indeed a burn on its belly and not scale rot. Two completely different treatments for things that can, depending on severity, look similar. As far as treatment goes, if the snake is truly that rough I'd do the vet drive. All you need for transport is a styrofoam insulated box, a small heat pack (like the gel kind that you can warm in the microwave will work -- of course, you don't want it piping hot. If it feels too hot for you, it's definitely too hot for the snake), and a pillowcase (put the snake in the pillowcase in the box with the small heatpack near it in the box). It will make the drive fine and it will get the medical attention it desperately needs. If you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT do that, then there's always google. I just searched "how treat ball python burns" and "how treat ball python scale rot" and quite a few vids, etc. popped up. But please, PLEASE try the vet.

[Kmay571]

I am trying hard to push for the vet trip. I know he needs it. But being the property of the pet store, I can't just take him and go. And it would be my responsibility to drive him, and can't afford to miss work to take him, so it would be a few days at least.
Scale rot didn't even cross my mind. The burns, if that's what they are, are down most of his belly. If it is scale rot, it would be the most severe case I've ever seen. I'm about to head to work now, and I'll take pictures.


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[Deuce]

I am trying hard to push for the vet trip. I know he needs it. But being the property of the pet store, I can't just take him and go.

I'll try to help you out here the best I can, but I really don't know what to tell you. Your store is a business; I get that. Clearly they've paid SOMETHING for this snake; I get that. Here's what they need to understand: this will kill the snake. They will lose every penny of that investment without treatment, which includes antibiotics, which have to be prescribed. They are injections, which means that someone at the store would have to administer them even if you got them.

NO ONE will buy that snake as it is. Not for a penny. The vet bills themselves wouldn't be that much, but you're still looking at at least about... $200. So. You have a ~$350 snake with a $200 problem in AWFUL condition. You see where I'm going with this, right? The two most humane options, if they aren't willing to take it to a vet are:

1) -GIVE- it to someone that will, and that person can just foot all the bills.
2) Don't let it sit there and suffer.*

* You can take that how you will. If you're 100% positive you can mend it, go for it. If you're unsure or don't think you can, you know what that means.

Find out this information today too, please: Who the Hell is providing your shop with snakes? This one in particular, who dropped it off? People here sure would like to know so they can avoid business with this person.

[Deuce]

Here are some snapshot suggestions I've found searching around. These are for mild cases, so I don't know how far it'd go with cases as severe as you're suggesting. However, all of these are worth a shot to get the snake on its way to recovery:

Scale Rot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaV_8DWq2lQ
Thermal Burn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfTbNzRireQ
Rodent bite: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?132194-Rat-bit-my-snake-%28Adviceneeded%29

Hope these help you out.

[hhmoore]

Before recommending any treatment options - especially based on youtube videos - it makes sense to wait for GOOD photos. Some things can be treated at home with fairly basic techniques; some things cannot, no matter how good the intentions. Using the wrong treatment can have a variety of results - the best case is that the problem improves by itself, despite the efforts (which sounds unlikely in this case); the worst case would be that the animal dies. Obviously, there are several steps in between...

The reality is that, if the description is accurate, this animal may never be sale-worthy. If that is the shops goal, they'll likely not invest much in it's care. Since this was a drop off, they may well give it to somebody with the interest in saving it. My advice would be to take a realistic look at whether this is something you want to mess with. If you want prelimary advice to help you with that decision - post clear images of the problem areas, including some close-ups.

[Deuce]

Couldn't agree more. I didn't mean to seem like I was trivializing the issues this snake is going though by posting "proper care" videos. Just wanted to give her a light at the end of the tunnel. I have before and still do HEAVILY recommend the vet visit for this poor snake.

[hhmoore]

I didn't misunderstand your post, and I understand that you are trying to help....but the "proper" part of the care in the videos could be debated, which was part of my point. Even if one accepts that the information in them is correct, as provided, it isn't necessarily applicable to this case.

[Kmay571]

Here are some pictures. He was brought in in a box by a stranger and said it was our problem now, we didn't order him.

Here are some pictures:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/31/114797d6d7df96c305f9e34d639fe6a6.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/31/097a2c623c5e6704ede747309d997b10.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/31/17d2e3c56f513fd4eaf3c994d02be949.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/31/ea0fe8e3ed271cad4c8c36c52e2b826c.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/31/4752384608c2b1fbe0123072628813cc.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/31/63dc69623bcb2fa86a4f4ce72e3f02bd.jpg


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[Kmay571]

Got good news, brought him to the vet! They said to cleanse it with diluted iodine, put neomycin in the open wounds, and use mineral oil on the burns.


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[Deuce]

Wonderful news! I'm glad you got the little guy to the vet. I wish him a speedy recovery and a much, MUCH more competent, equally happy owner in the near future.

[bcr229]

Got good news, brought him to the vet! They said to cleanse it with diluted iodine, put neomycin in the open wounds, and use mineral oil on the burns.
The cleansing with iodine/betadine is fine. Mix it so it looks like a weak tea and you can either soak the burned and rat-chewed areas in it, or apply it using sterile gauze pad.

Personally I would avoid using both neomycin and mineral oil long-term as these products cause scale damage - not that there's much in the way of scales left to damage on those burns, and yes, those are burns. The oils will also stick to any paper substate. If you have Vetericyn in the store that is a better product for reptiles as it's a water-based gel that doesn't damage scales, and once it dries it's not goopy so nothing sticks to it.

This guy's environment must be as clean as possible - keep it on paper towels, remove messes quickly and sanitize with F10 or chlorhexadine.

I also wouldn't be surprised if a future vet trip for antibiotics is needed if those burns get infected.

Kudos to the shop owner for taking in the animal, most understandably will not. At best neglected animals can cost more in vet bills than they are worth, at worst they harbor diseases or mites that run through everything in the store without strict quarantine measures. If the store owner is smart that animal will be rehomed or sent to a rescue ASAP.

[Kmay571]

It will be put up for adoption once the wounds have closed up. And he is well on the way to healing.


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[Kmay571]

He is being quarantined permanently. No sign of mites or any disease yet, but we aren't taking any chances.

The store owner is more of an absentee owner, but still makes all financial decisions. The snake is now strictly in my care. No idea if it is male or female. And I won't even attempt to check until I can finally feed him.

Speaking of feeding, at what point should I try feeding him? I don't know the last time he was fed.


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[bcr229]

Speaking of feeding, at what point should I try feeding him? I don't know the last time he was fed.
From the pictures it doesn't look like he's thin or underweight, but it's hard to tell without any of his back. These guys can go for quite a while without eating, so I would give it at least a month and then offer a half-sized feeder so he doesn't stretch that burned skin if he does eat.

[hhmoore]

Agreed - and, you may want to take it slow after that, as well. If the next shed happens too early in the healing process, it will just tear wounds open again. The shed is going to happen anyway; but it would be nice to delay it.

[Kmay571]

His backbone isn't visible and he doesn't seem thin. I'll wait the month then see if he will take a mouse.


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[Fedwa001]

How can I adopt this little guy? My heart is breaking just seeing those photos.

[Kmay571]

Unfortunately, we cannot ship him. I wouldn't even attempt to in his state. However, if you wanted to take the trip to Greensboro, NC in a couple months.


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[Deuce]

Well keep us posted on his condition. When he's fully healed, if someone there doesn't snatch him up (despite those burns he's a pretty snake) -- or if you don't fall too in love with him and keep him yourself -- I live in Raleigh. Greensboro is only about an hour drive and I'd make it.

[Kmay571]

I'm already half temped to take him. I just have to figure out spacing in my spare room. I already have 2 40g breeder tanks. Three Leos in one and my beardie in the other. I've never owned a ball python, I've only ever kept arboreal snakes.


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[bcr229]

It would be very easy to set him up:
- 34 qt Sterilite latchbox
- Non-stretch luggage strap to secure the lid, so he can't escape by pushing up the long side of the tub.
- Heat pad
- Thermostat
- Hides
- Water bowl

Paper for substrate until he heals, then either paper or aspen if you prefer that.

These guys don't need a tank and don't tend to do well in them, they like snug hiding places, warmth, and humidity.

[hhmoore]

This isn't the adoption forum...and she didn't indicate that she was trying to find it a home.
(If/when she comes to that point, it won't be posted in the discussion area.)

[arex83]

Are you still using iodine solution? I know you said he's on his way to healing, which is great news!! But also keep in mind iodine also has adverse effects on native cells, and you don't want to inadvertently set up a situation that now might slow down the re-growth of his local skin. So if the cuts still look clean/non-infected, you can probably start progressively diluting down the iodine even more so.

[Kmay571]

Are you still using iodine solution? I know you said he's on his way to healing, which is great news!! But also keep in mind iodine also has adverse effects on native cells, and you don't want to inadvertently set up a situation that now might slow down the re-growth of his local skin. So if the cuts still look clean/non-infected, you can probably start progressively diluting down the iodine even more so.


I have already started diluting the iodine solution even more. The wound does appear to be closing at the very ends where it was closest to the skin. The poor snake is almost a pale yellow color because of the iodine. it has been ridiculous improvement so far. I will update with pictures today.

The burns are starting to flake off, which is exposing raw spots underneath. That's a new issue, but I am not overly concerned, audit just needs to be kept clean.


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[Fedwa001]

I was just curious how the little guy was doing.

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[Kmay571]

Sorry I haven't been updating! He is doing much better. We are off the iodine soaks as the wound is healing nicely and there is no redness or sign of infection. He is getting daily warm water baths to cleanse him and keep him hydrated. The bad burns on his belly have been flaking off. He is still very shy about his bite. He curls up so his head covers it now, and he's taken to snapping as me. I'm still going to wait a little longer to feed him. The sealed parts of the bite look fragile and I don't want to stretch his belly. I will start with a couple rat fuzzies probably on Wednesday, at least to see if he will take rats.

I really have fallen for this little trooper. I've seen snakes give up on much less. Don't know if I have the room for him. But I'm trying to work it out.


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[Fedwa001]

Well if you don't take him I will pay the shipping !

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[Deuce]

So glad to hear he's doing better; that's great news! It doesn't surprise me that he's been getting snappy; he's probably tired of getting "messed with" lol. When he's fully healed you should probably just let him be alone for a week or so and not handle him at all -- you know, let him calm down and whatnot. I hope he eats but don't be surprised if he doesn't either; they're incredibly sensitive to stress and oftentimes won't eat because of it.

[Kmay571]

I bet he is sick of it. I do keep handling to an absolute minimum. Only once a day to clean his tank , clean him, and check his progress. I do plan on leaving him alone once there isn't any open wounds. I'm really not expecting him to eat, but I'll offer anyways and see what happens.


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[Fedwa001]

This isn't the adoption forum...and she didn't indicate that she was trying to find it a home.
(If/when she comes to that point, it won't be posted in the discussion area.)
And actually she did indicate that the animal would be up for adoption when the wounds were healed.

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[hhmoore]

It's probably a good thing that I think that comment was before our PM communication, ;). Poking at the tired and cranky moderator isn't generally a good idea.

[Fedwa001]

Hhmoore I have seen the error of my ways lol. Thanks for the pm.

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[Deuce]

And that's precisely why I didn't bother replying when he said that (since it was directed toward me). ;)

[Kmay571]

Well then. Today is a slow day at work, so I'll get some pictures so y'all can see his progress.
If and when he is ready to be rehomed, I will post it in the appropriate area.

As for now, he managed to get loose while I was cleaning his tank. Found him on top of the mouse bin. Started calling him Diablito. He sure he a little spitfire. Can't wait to see his real personality when he isn't in pain.


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[Kmay571]

Wow he was extra pissy today! He appears to be going to shed, so fingers crossed!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160112/eb37015d9e10d4ce8a56c6160d3dc715.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160112/31d0a037c1aaa1ddf1608f2815140b26.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160112/c3ba7cc8995eb53bb52d1ecdf5a751e8.jpg


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[Fedwa001]

Well he looks better

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[Kmay571]

I was really trying to get a picture of his neck wound. It really does look better, but I was in the mood to get bitten early during a 9 hour shift.


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[Fedwa001]

Lol that makes sense

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[Helenthereef]

I think the fact that he is so feisty bodes well. Looking good, hope the improvement continues, and well done for all your good work. :thumbsup:

[Kmay571]

I did take his attitude as a good thing. When he first came in, he would only curl up in a ball or lay on his back. Now he's like "you come near me, I'll eat you"

I never see him on his back anymore. And he has taken to climbing the cardboard to knock it down.


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[Helenthereef]

Nothing like an evil attitude to prove you are feeling better..... :thumbsup: :rofl:

[Deuce]

I honestly think it's something about pieds too. I have a beautiful pied girl who unfortunately got a URI once, but even when I was stressing her out having to give her shots she would still pound food every week. Never misses a meal, that one. She's an even better eater than my Cali Kings!

[Kmay571]

Haven't tried feeding yet, other than when he made a break for it to the mouse bin. I doubt those mice have ever been so terrified.


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[ElexisC]

Honestly I think a small meal would help with recovery, hard for your body to fully heal and do it quickly without nutrients. But I'm glad he's making a quick recovery nonetheless. =)

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[Kmay571]

I did try to feed today. He had no interest in f/t or prekilled rodents. I offered a stunned mouse and he struck at it, but it only appeared to be a pissed off strike and not a try to grab dinner strike. Offered a stunned rat pup that I rubbed the prekilled mouse on, and he balled up.

He is too big to just eat mice, and while I'll offer him them while he is healing to avoid stretching his belly, he really should be eating at least small rats. Do you think he will ever be willing to take a rat again after his experience?


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[Deuce]

Yes, I absolutely think he'll eat again. Don't worry about it; just keep offering once a week. Ball pythons can go for MONTHS without food, and as we've already discussed this guy has been incredibly stressed out. Just give him some time. He'll definitely eat.

[hhmoore]

That type of injury is enough to put him off food, anyway, as has been said; but getting chewed on like that can also create obstacles to feeding a specific prey item.
My first thought was that I probably wouldn't have even tried to feed, yet...then, of course, I remembered that I have no idea what the wounds look like, or even how long it has been. (My sense of the passage of time is usually skewed, and I haven't scrolled back to look.)

If he has never eaten anything other than live, you may have some struggles converting him. Forget your preferences and beliefs, for now - it isn't about what you want to feed, or what you think he should eat. When it's time, it will be about what the snake is willing to take...once it is feeding regularly again, you can think about imposing your will. Rats, especially f/t, are a convenient option for the keeper; but a bp can do just fine on mice. (Ask the people that have never fed their snakes anything other than mice)

Best of luck with him - be patient.

[Kmay571]

It's been several weeks, and I don't know how long it was before we got him that we was injured. His wound back then was red, crusted shut, and stuffed with wood shavings, so it definitely wasn't a super fresh wound. I'm not worried about him not eating ever again. I'm sure he will. I was just curious about rats.

I'm hoping the bite doesn't scar too bad either. I've seen a ball python with a nasty scar and was shocked the owner had left a live jumbo rat in her tank.



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[Kmay571]

Unfortunately, the little guy passed away this weekend. The vet said it was organ failure due to a blood infection. He said we were doing everything right and there wasn't much else that we could have done and that it was a strain of antibiotic- resistant bacteria.

At least his last weeks were the best he could have had.


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[Helenthereef]

So sorry to hear that, :( you very obviously did all you could. Sometimes the fight just isn't win-able.

[ElexisC]

So sorry to hear. People like the previous owner make me sick. They failed that BP in a horrible way. No heat control, obviously fed live and most likely left it alone to get chomped on (although I have seen snakes get bit while constricting so live isn't 100% safe even if you're standing there like I see some people tell new people) and just dumped him at a pet shop not even a vets office..

[Fedwa001]

So sorry to hear the little guy passed away.

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[AbsoluteApril]

I'm sorry to hear he passed. At least you made his last days comfortable.

[arex83]

So sorry...I was really rooting for him. I didn't realize he was getting antibiotics in the first place. :(

[Kmay571]

Yeah. A couple weeks ago where he was burned was looking infected. So we started treating it. It looked like it was helping for a while.


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[Deuce]

Thanks for doing all that you could; I know you tried your best. I'm so sorry for your loss.

[Kmay571]

I actually took him and buried him in my back yard. I was so attached to the little guy.


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[viandy]

He was lucky to get a little time to spend with you, it sure sounds like you did all you could. Sorry he didn't pull through.

[Dansolt929]

Terribly saddened and sorry to hear about the little guy, he was far to beautiful to have been treated that way. As is any abused reptile...
I read about 90% of the thread, and didn't see if you ever found out who dropped off this poor animal.
Would be good info so no one does business with someone so neglectful.

[Dansolt929]

Went back to page 1 (duh) and noticed above the pics it was a stranger, sorry about that. I was too fixated on the severity of the damage to notice. Some people can be so cruel.
Again, I'm sorry for the loss, I'm sure he appreciates forever being with the one who tried hardest.

[Kmay571]

Yeah it was a stranger. Never saw him before and haven't seen him since. Oh well. I hope he doesn't have any other animals.


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