horned lizards

[corn_breeder]

hello if anyone can tell me if people buy these and how much they could be worth

[00700]

Hector,
Doublecheck the laws of your state before you consider selling any animals from the wild.
The last I heard, Arizona was pretty strict about enforcing its laws to protect native wildlife. Other states allow collection and sale of wildcaught reptiles, I don't think that arizona allows *any* collection for sale.

[corn_breeder]

ok i was just wongering some guy told me that the went from50-75 dollers each. i have land and i all ways feed the crickets i gues now im not going to capture them thanks for letting me know

[mightymo]

Thank you for not collecting them. Go to www.phrynosoma.com and read up on them. They can be difficult to keep alive in captivity, and several species arnt doing so well in the wild either. Are these the solare's?

[Lucille]

Arizona Game & Fish link, Reptile regulations
In this PDF you will find the pertinent reg's for HL's in Arizona. To summarize:
The flat tail (P. Mcallii ) is fully protected and cannot be taken without a scientific study permit.
Texas horned lizards may be taken up to a total of 4 in possession. They may be exported. (you can take them across state lines).
Regal horned lizards (P. Solare) may be taken up to a total of 4 in possession. They may be exported.
Round tails (Modestum) may be taken up to a total of 4 in possession. They may be exported.
Desert horned lizards (Platyrhinos) may be taken up to a total of 4 in possession. They may be exported.
Short Horned (Hernandesi) may be taken up to a total of 4 in possession. They may be exported.


Utah Reptile and Amphibian Regulations link


California Fish & Game Link
The California Regs have the reptile section in the fishing reg booklet.
Texas - Short horned and Texas horned lizards are considered endangered and are both protected. They can not be kept without permits usually issued for scientific study.
Oklahoma - Texas horned lizards are considered endangered and are both protected. They can not be kept without permits usually issued for scientific study

[coyote]

Their natural food is ants. Anyone know if they can be maintained on anything else--like crickets--in captivity? I don't think so, they are specialists.

[mightymo]

Some people say that they keep there's without feeding them ants. Problem is that there is no long term study of the effects it would have on the lizard. Best advice is to feed them ants to be safe. It can't be the argentinean fire ants though. Mine get ants, crickets, mealworms and waxworms. They are wonderful lizards, just difficult to take care of.

[corn_breeder]

thanks for the info guys i apreitiate it.

[kai-engen]

They Are Endangered. :hot:

[mightymo]

that's not completely correct. The coastal is, and the Texas is considered to be in Texas. They are still legal to collect in New Mexico though I believe. Read the site I previously posted

[kai-engen]

:toiletcla oh, i thought you ment the Texas horned lizard.

[mightymo]

In Texas, they are listed as endangered. In New Mexico I believe it is legal to catch them though. The Texas Horned Lizard is an awsome looking lizard. I've never seen one in person while in Texas, it's a shame they're so rare.

[corn_breeder]

they are not illigle to have or capture . you may not sell them only give and maybe trade them. and only in groups of four . they also don't really live in captive they tend to die. i'm going to try to breed them and release them again. or trade them for friendly cash which is : some body gives you money and you give them a snake or trade.

[mightymo]

once again that's not completely true. Depends on the state and the species you are dealing with. The coastals are endangered. Illegal to capture, keep, trade or sell. The Texas is considered endangered in Texas and the same applies within Texas. Other species such as the Regal and Desert are legal to capture, trade, sell, and such. Read the previous site or go to the kingsnake horned lizard forum. Since you are in Arizona, I believe you are most likely talking about the regal/solare and yes that is true about their captivity

[kevin of italia]

if you are interested in trading your horned lizards i may have a few reptiles you may be interested in trading for

[reptilebreeder]

they are not illigle to have or capture . you may not sell them only give and maybe trade them. and only in groups of four . they also don't really live in captive they tend to die. i'm going to try to breed them and release them again. or trade them for friendly cash which is : some body gives you money and you give them a snake or trade.Doubt you can keep any and have them thrive, let alone breed any. Releasing captive ones into the wild may be illegal, it is in CA. Trades are usually the same thing as buying, you are giving someone something and they are "paying" you for it, whether cash, a snake, or something else. In CA trading is specifically mentioned as illegal for wild caught animals. Don't know if it's specifically mentioned in your state, but even if it isn't it would be an unethical loophole IMO.

[kevin of italia]

i have a few of them "thriving" as we speak which one has been thriving for 5 years with me ive spoken with the California Department of Fish and Game as long as it is not a species of special concern threatened or endangered species no laws are broken although i do appreciate your concern

[mightymo]

I know of a pair that bred and has 5 eggs in the incubator. The owner of phrynosoma.org has kept captive horned lizards and several successful clutches.

[reptilebreeder]

i have a few of them "thriving" as we speak which one has been thriving for 5 years with me ive spoken with the California Department of Fish and Game as long as it is not a species of special concern threatened or endangered species no laws are broken although i do appreciate your concernFirst of all, as you can see by who I quoted (though based on how you wrote that post as one sentence, maybe you can't comprehend that I wasn't talking to you), I was refering to the OP. He is asking rookie questions about them. You don't go from knowing nothing about Horned Lizards to breeding them. Second I said nothing about you having or keeping them, but the rest of my statement still holds true. You can only keep a certain amount, and if they breed and it puts you over the limit, you have to give them away, not trade, sell, barter, whatever. Also I don't know what you would trade with him, but if it is something wild caught it would be illegal. If you already knew that the info I posted is irrelevant, and my post wasn't referring to you anyway.

[kevin of italia]

alright sorry to jump so quickly i have bad grammar i know but truely am sorry

[mightymo]

Where are limits posted for how many you can keep? I was trying to look through the california fish and game commission, but I don't think that is the correct place to be looking. The only thing I found there was about only being allowed to collect and possess 2 with a sport fishing license. http://weblinks.westlaw.com/Search/default.wl?RP=%2FWelcome%2FFrameless%2FSearch%2Ewl&n=1&action=Search&bhcp=1&CFID=0&db=ca%2Dadc&method=TNC&query=horned+lizard&recreatepath=%2Fsearch%2Fdefault%2Ewl&RLT=CLID%5FQRYRLT291117307&RLTDB=CLID%5FDB291117307&search=Search&sp=CCR%2D1000&spolt=Return+to+the+California+Code+of+Regulations +Service&sposu=http%3A%2F%2Fgovernment%2Ewestlaw%2Ecom%2Fli nkedslice%2Fdefault%2Easp%3FSP%3DCCR%2D1000&spou=http%3A%2F%2Fgovernment%2Ewestlaw%2Ecom%2Flin kedslice%2Fdefault%2Easp%3FSP%3DCCR%2D1000&ssl=n&strRecreate=no&sv=Split&tempinfo=word&RS=WEBL6.07&VR=2.0&SPa=CCR-1000

If they breed, the babies aren't wc, they'd be cb, so why would they be under the same rules of pocession? I'm just wondering.

Thanks

[reptilebreeder]

Where are limits posted for how many you can keep? I was trying to look through the california fish and game commission, but I don't think that is the correct place to be looking. The only thing I found there was about only being allowed to collect and possess 2 with a sport fishing license. http://weblinks.westlaw.com/Search/default.wl?RP=%2FWelcome%2FFrameless%2FSearch%2Ewl&n=1&action=Search&bhcp=1&CFID=0&db=ca%2Dadc&method=TNC&query=horned+lizard&recreatepath=%2Fsearch%2Fdefault%2Ewl&RLT=CLID%5FQRYRLT291117307&RLTDB=CLID%5FDB291117307&search=Search&sp=CCR%2D1000&spolt=Return+to+the+California+Code+of+Regulations +Service&sposu=http%3A%2F%2Fgovernment%2Ewestlaw%2Ecom%2Fli nkedslice%2Fdefault%2Easp%3FSP%3DCCR%2D1000&spou=http%3A%2F%2Fgovernment%2Ewestlaw%2Ecom%2Flin kedslice%2Fdefault%2Easp%3FSP%3DCCR%2D1000&ssl=n&strRecreate=no&sv=Split&tempinfo=word&RS=WEBL6.07&VR=2.0&SPa=CCR-1000

If they breed, the babies aren't wc, they'd be cb, so why would they be under the same rules of pocession? I'm just wondering.

ThanksTalking exclusively about horned lizards (or all herps not allowed to commercially breed), it's because CA doesn't issue breeder's permits for them, so you can't breed them "commercially". If they do breed and it puts you over the limit you have to give them away. This is true for all the native reptiles of CA. The only exceptions are when you have a native reptile breeder permit, and that only allows Ca kings, Rosies, and Gopher snakes. With the permit you can breed them and sell the captive bred offspring, but you still can't sell the WC ones.