Blazing Blizz Question

[LadyGecko]

HI Everyone
I have a question regarding the eye color on a Blazing Blizzard
For some reason i was under the impression that a Blazing blizzard has reddish/pink eyes-as in a true albino
I asked a question about some Blazings for sale on a site and I was told that only the Bell Blazing's have the red eye color
Is this true?
I had been going along under the impression that a Blazing Blizzard is a very white red eyed Leopard Gecko and that they retain the reddish eye coloration
I'm confused
Thanks for your replies
Sandy

[saltwaterreptiles]

Blazing blizzards are exactly what you thought....a red/pink eyed very white blizzard...

Both the trempers and the bells have this... though, I have to say, the blazing bell that Kelli produced is the BEST BB I have ever seen...

What were the ones on the site for sale like that they were calling them bb's?

[LadyGecko]

Hi Cory and thanks so much for your reply
The BB's are listed on Reptibid and there are 3 males up for auction by the same person
I asked the question about the eye color was told by the seller that I was incorrect in assuming that all Blazings had red eyes
Here is the link to the auction that i posted the question on
I agree Kelli's Blazing bells are the most amazing BB's that i have ever seen so maybe i am just used to seeing the best-LOL!!

http://www.reptileauctions.com/auctiondetails.php?id=1737

Sandy

[LadyGecko]

This link is to the only pic of the 3 auctions that clearly shows the eyes
http://www.reptileauctions.com/auctiondetails.php?id=1738
and while I do think that they are very nice Blizzards-I was confused on the eye color issue
He clearly states that these are Blazing Blizzards in all 3 auctons regarding each male that he has for sale
Sandy

[ByRandom]

Actually I've been under the impression that it is very difficult to produce Blazings with Red eyes. They do hatch out without red eyes more often than not, which is the reason that people have such difficult telling the difference between a blizz and a blazing whenever hets are crossed together and such. Just check out the other Blazings for sell, and you'll see that most don't have the red eyes. Hope that helps.

[LadyGecko]

Hi ByRandom
Thanks for your input- :D
I guess that what I really want to know is when the first Blazing Blizzards were created and the morph was named-were they red eyed as this excerpt from Prehistoric Pets site states?

"The Blazing Blizzard Lizard is a gorgeous all-white leopard gecko (Eublepharis macularius ) with ruby red eyes. It came from a cross with an Albino Leopard gecko.

One of the nice features of the Blazing Blizzard is that unlike the albinos and the original blizzard, the blazings stay all white all the time. Since there are only a few of these around, this gecko is ideal for breeding projects!.

Whether or not the red eyes ones are very difficult to produce - It doesn't seem to me that the this justifies changing the description of the morph if it started out with red eyes

If it did not start out with red eyes and that was not the original description of the morph-then that is a different story entirely.
Maybe I am just obsessing ....but it's 2 am and i can't sleep-LOL

Sandy

[ByRandom]

Sandy,

Whether or not the origin of the morph had red eyes is the same as the question "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?". I can't prove that the non-Red Eyes came before the Red Eyes. Just as I cannot prove the Red Eyes came before the non-Red Eyes. However my understanding is this: If they were determined to make an all white gecko with red eyes, then they wouldn't have noticed any blatant differences between the resulting offspring that didn't have Red Eyes. It's like tunnel vision. Thusly, I assume that some "Blazing Blizzards" were created in the younger years of this endeavour that were completely white that had dark eyes, however they were overlooked as "unusually white" blizzards due to the fact that they weren't trying to make a whiter blizzard, but one with red eyes. It is my understanding (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, which in most cases I am whenever I state "my understanding..." lol) that the "Red Eye Gene" (forgive me for the lack of a better word for "gene") is completely independent from the "Albinism Gene", or rather the gene's effects, whenever crossed with another recessive morph. I believe that more than half of Blazing Blizzards are produced non-Red Eyed. I was going to jump on the bandwagon a few years back, but was informed of the inconsistency of creating Red Eyed (or the term used to explain it to me: Marketable) Blazing Blizzards even from two Red Eyed parents. Perhaps I was given wrong information, but it was from an individual, whom I can't rightly remember, from who I was going to purchase them from. So unless they were mistaken or simply enjoy sabotaging their own business, I believe that my sources are correct. Although, it does take all types of people to make the world go 'round.

(*difficulty, not difficult, in post #5. lol)

And please call me Josh. :) I feel that using my username is in the same category as calling me "Sir", lol. We're all friends here, although my friends do tend to call me "Joshua Dean" or "Joshie Woshie!" Weird friends, I know.

[ByRandom]

*whiter ... Wow, lol. I really think it is time for bed. :raspberry

[LadyGecko]

Thanks Josh- for all the info-I really appreciate the time that you took to explain it all to me
I guess that i finally understand that a Blazing blizzard can have either red eyes or black eyes and still be considered a Blazing blizzard
As i said before i was under the impression that a "True" blazing blizz has red eyes and that is what made them so rare and also so expensive

Sandy

[groovygeckos]

Albino Blizzards have red eyes, and the Tremper strain darkens some.

I do not think there is such a thing as an albino w/ black eyes. Yes they are darker than normal, and look sorta black, but that comes from cooling. They cannot hatch w/ dark eyes, UNLESS they are incubated at low temps.

As far as I know they all start out with red eyes, just like any other Albino.

If you let a RAPTOR (or any Tremper Albino)cool, the same thing will happen. The dark pigment will migrate, this can happen to the eyes, and as we all know, can happen on the body.

Our BB has pretty dark eyes, for a Tremper. But it is still pretty obvious, when you see the light brown veins, you know they were once red.

[raiquee]

Yeah, and now with the snake eye morph getting breed a lot into the blizzard line, I think it makes it even harder to tell.

I was also under the impression that they hatched with albino looking eyes, but they darkened as they grew older. I thought this was the way you picked out the BB from the regular blizzards.

[LadyGecko]

HI Dan
When I first heard that there were albino leopard geckos-quite a few years back now- my mental image of them was EXACTLY what a red eyed blazing blizzard looks like-a true albino
No dark pigment and red eyes
When i finally got to see my first Tremper Albino -I was actually shocked to see an "albino" animal with any color pigmentation other than pure white
I think whenever the term albino comes to mind describing an animal, i think of a white rat-LOL
Sandy

[LadyGecko]

Hi Desire'
I agree-I think that when there were just a few morphs it used to be that you could look at a Leo and have a pretty good idea of line that it came from
Now with all of the new morphs and everything being bred to everything else -it does seem to get kind of jumbled-not a bad thing-but kind of confusing-LOL
Dan-thanks for pointing out the darkening of the Tremper line- i didnt even think of that-but the raptors did come to mind with their red eyes
I also did not know that if you incubate at low temps that you can get a black eyed albino
Learn something new everyday-that's what so interesting about these guys
:D

Sandy

[g&mgeckos]

Sandy great question! I was under the same impression! But I think Josh as made a very good point that I never really thought of before. Also I too was suprised when I saw my first albino leo. Not that I was thinking it would be all white but I was thinking red eyes and that is not what I saw. I am curious as to what Kelli has to say on this topic since I think we all agree she has produced the best looking red-eyed bb we have seen.

Thank you Josh and Dan for explaining your experiences with us.

[groovygeckos]

Hi Sandy,

Well I wasnt saying you can make a black eyed albino, but the eyes and skin from lower inc. temps are noticeably darker.

Im sure youve seen a Tremper w/ brown veins right? Thats what happens from them getting cooled, or even from low inc.

When I got our BB from Wahberee`s, I did ask him about the eyes, and was told they started off more red. Also PP`s ad states 'their rudy eyes have darkened'. Yes, it was their typ-o(rudy not ruby LOL), not mine. :hehe:

Knowing how hard it is to keep Trempers warm enough, so they dont darken, I have no doubt that this is what is going on with the BB`s eyes.

[bro paul]

In my experience, albino eye color (no matter the strain) is highly dependent on genetics. That may be obvious, but what I mean by that is that it seems that more "reddish" colored eyes are exhibited on albinos that have a lot of orange/red body pigmentation or come from a bloodline with strong tangerine genes. I don't mean that they have red eyes, like a raptor, but a greater number of bright red veins in each eye.

I have also seen eye color darkened to a light or dull grey, but only on albinos with rather mute coloring. I have three blazing blizzards (tremper line), all the same age and size, and their eyes colors vary quite a bit. One has a definite red hue, the other is very slightly red, and the other has pretty dark eyes. Again, these are all the same age and size (right now about 20 grams). Of course, their body color is white...so I have no way of knowing if one has good tangerine bloodlines or not (I did not produce them). I would equate this to what I've seen in tremper and bell albinos, where an animal with bright body colors has bright eyes...and visa versa.

I know this isn't very scientific...it's just what I've seen. Bells definitely seem to have quite a bit more red eye pigmentation on the norm...not sure what that's all about...but, in both my bell and tremper tangs I see little difference in eye color....both exhibit lots of red. As far as I know, the pic of Kelli's Bell Blazing Blizzard is the only example we have...hopefully this season we'll see more examples and maybe the Bell BBs will retain their red eyes :)

I am planning on breeding my tremper BBs to my super tang trempers to see if the eyes will retrain more red pigment. And, of course, I'm crossing the BBs into my RAPTOR project with the hopes of producing a red eyed blazing blizzard. Time will tell and many others are way ahead of me with this project. It good that there's a lot of work yet to be done though....I kinda hate seeing blizzards and BBs being sold so cheap. They are such cool looking animals.

[groovygeckos]

Paul, RT is planning a Red Eye Blazing 'attack' soon enough. LOL Also there are Super Snow Blazing Bleeezard projects in the works.

Snow Blizzards are pure white, just imagine a Blazing Super Snow w/ solid red eyes!

[AUBREY'S REPTILES]

2 of the 3 BB's that we have ( both 65 ish grams) exhibit darker eyes( I even found out not to long ago that our male has partial snake-eyes ). Our smaller 40 gram female that I got from Mark & Kim Bell does have a small amount of red to her eyes. The hardest part for me is being able to get them to keep their eyes open long enough and in enough light for me to be able to see what degree of red they do have.

I kinda hate seeing blizzards and BBs being sold so cheap. They are such cool looking animals.

I agree with you on that one.. I definatly wanted a group of BB's to work with when I got into breeding. A solid red BB would be cool. I 'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but wouldn't the eclipse ( solid black ) eye trait be possible to cross into the BB line of any of the 3 strains???? I think a solid black eyed BB would be just as awesome :)

[groovygeckos]

A solid red BB would be cool. I 'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but wouldn't the eclipse ( solid black ) eye trait be possible to cross into the BB line of any of the 3 strains???? I think a solid black eyed BB would be just as awesome

Shawn, only problem with that is, red eye, are the albino expression of black eyes. You cannot make an Albino anything with black eyes. Also some of the Eclipse, just like the RAPTORs, have 'snake' eyes. The RAPTOR, is the Albino expression of the 'Eclipse' gene. They arent seperate lines :)

So far, w/the three eye-traits (Eclipse, Blizzards, and now Super Snows 3 'seperate' lines), the eyes are red when Albino genes are also expressed. At least when they hatch out.

I think I can see the value in the Tremper inc. method, w/ these eye-morphs. The eyes on our RAPTORs were different upon hatching, and the darker eyes came from female temps. Funny thing is, they both were female, and now the lower temp one looks better than the 90dg. one. Oh well!

[bro paul]

So, Dan...have you seen a change in RAPTOR eye coloring? I've yet to hatch a raptor, but hopefully with a month or two...so I'm curious. I've always thought and hoped that raptor red eyes stay pretty red even into adulthood.

And I agree with you on the the blazing super snows! There are going to be some pretty freaky looking animals soon (freaky in a good way!) I can't wait to see a super snow blizzard...or an eclipse blizzard (if that's possible). I just want to see a solid white gecko with solid black eyes.

[AUBREY'S REPTILES]

You cannot make an Albino anything with black eyes.

Sorry Dan, I had a massive brain fart. I forgot I was talking about BB's

I can't wait to see a super snow blizzard...or an eclipse blizzard (if that's possible). I just want to see a solid white gecko with solid black eyes.

Paul summed it up the way I had meant to..

[Golden Gate Geckos]

All the BB's I've seen (and produced) have albino-ish eyes. Some are darker than others, but they are are light-colored with reddish/pinkish hue and/or red veins. I have found that the lighter and redder the eyes, the more sensitive to light they are, and therefore difficult to photograph.

[420Geckos]

When I first heard that there were albino leopard geckos-quite a few years back now- my mental image of them was EXACTLY what a red eyed blazing blizzard looks like-a true albino
No dark pigment and red eyes
When i finally got to see my first Tremper Albino -I was actually shocked to see an "albino" animal with any color pigmentation other than pure white
I think whenever the term albino comes to mind describing an animal, i think of a white rat-LOLWhat you’re referring to as a “true albino” would be called T- Albino. T- meaning tyrosinase negative or not able to produce melanin.

<o></o>Snow Blizzards are pure white, just imagine a Blazing Super Snow w/ solid red eyes!<o></o>That makes me much more excited about my Mack Snow project!

<o></o>And I agree with you on the the blazing super snows! There are going to be some pretty freaky looking animals soon (freaky in a good way!) I can't wait to see a super snow blizzard...or an eclipse blizzard (if that's possible). I just want to see a solid white gecko with solid black eyes.I can’t say a solid white gecko with solid black eyes has been produced, but I as well as others have “Eclipse” Blizzards. Mine changes day and night as far as color, but her eyes are always solid black. It may or may not be the same gene as RT’s.

[groovygeckos]

Can hardly imagine, being able to see a Super Snow Blizzard, next to a Super Snow Blazing...But it WILL happen!! :) Heck, we havent even seen a Super Snow next to a Super Snow Albino yet

[420Geckos]

That will be really cool!

[420Geckos]

I just thought of something. What's a Mack Pastel Blizzard Going to look like? Mack Snow Pastel Blizzard? Mack Super Snow Pastel Blizzard? Throw some Bell albino in those crosses!??

Hopefully the double hets I make this year will do me good next season. It's crazy the number of morphs that will come from my DHs!

[groovygeckos]

So, Dan...have you seen a change in RAPTOR eye coloring? I've yet to hatch a raptor, but hopefully with a month or two...so I'm curious. I've always thought and hoped that raptor red eyes stay pretty red even into adulthood.

Paul, I must have missed this one. I havent really seen any change, but Im trying to keep them warm. LOL

The only difference Ive seen is what I posted above, and it is from inc. temps. Lets just say I wouldnt want to try to inc. a RAPTOR at 80dg. Any Tremper Albino for that matter. :ack2:

[LeosForLess]

I quickly read over this because i have missed it until now, but theres also the Las Vegas strain of albino. Paul Sage owns one, but Garrick Deymeyer tells me that they have a redder hue in their eyes and keep it until their older.