Breeding Loan - Owner Gone Missing

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I did a few breeding loans this season involving my cornsnakes because some how I managed to be short a few males. All were very successful & all males were returned to their respective owners except one.

I have a beautiful Charcoal male still here, and I can not get a hold of the owner. She is not answering my PMs or Emails, and her phone number is out've service. I posted an inquiry on cs.com in hopes that maybe someone would have contact with her, but nothing. I've had him here since February, and I'm not sure what to do.

Any suggestions?

[DAND]

Bureau of Missing Persons Forum

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=468

Oh yeah, posting the persons name may help too. :raspberry

[TripleMoonsExotic]

No, I don't think you understand. It seems like she dropped off the face of the Earth. She lived a few hours North from me. I have tried contacting her here and via cs.com. She wasn't very active here, but was on cs.com. No one knows anything.

I'm sending a letter out to the address I have for her. But, if it goes unanswered, what should I do with this snake?

MIA:
Amy O'Brien
Diagon Alley Corn Snakes

[christopher66]

It was given to you on breeding loan.
I think the key word here is loan.
Even if you cant get in touch with her,i would suggest that you continue to care or the animal. If and when you find her and/or she shows up on your door step requesting her snake then you may ask for some funding to cover the costs of upkeep on HER animal.
But you did say breeding loan,so were any clutches sired by him?And did you inturn profit from that clutch?

The safest thing and the right thing to do is to continue to care for it until SHE lets you know what you can do with her animal.If you do anything else you may be opening a can of worms.

Just my opinion :)

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Please do not lecture me on how to handle a breeding loan. I have successfully handled 2 other breeding loans this year without mishap. This has been my only issue, and in truth, it is not anything in my control. The whole point of this is I CAN NOT locate her.

My point is, how long should I wait? 1 year? 2 years? I really do not want to continue houseing & feeding an animal that is not mine nor will be in any of my projects.

The last time I heard from her was on May 15th when the 2 eggs from the first clutch he fathered with one of my Amel Stripes hatched. Since then, their has been nothing.

I am very concerned because she was always very quick to respond to me.

[christopher66]

Just my opinion :)


All i did was provide you with an opinion. :)

[TripleMoonsExotic]

All i did was provide you with an opinion. :)

So you would suggest to hold onto the snake, even if 5 years down the road I still have no reply?

[christopher66]

So you would suggest to hold onto the snake, even if 5 years down the road I still have no reply?

I gave you a solid opinion.
By the tone of your reply ,my opinion was not received well by you.
So tell me why should i give you another opinion?

[Wilomn]

60 to 90 days of effort on your part to locate this person is adequate as far I am concerned.

Sell the male, and maybe hold on to one of his offspring you can make a deal on if the owner of the father ever shows up.

And chris, a tad harsh there, may want to lighten up a bit.

[christopher66]

And chris, a tad harsh there, may want to lighten up a bit.


noted

[TripleMoonsExotic]

60 to 90 days of effort on your part to locate this person is adequate as far I am concerned.

Sell the male, and maybe hold on to one of his offspring you can make a deal on if the owner of the father ever shows up.

Thank you very much, Wes. That is exactly what I was looking for. Opinions on how long I should hold onto this male before giving up hope.

I am going to send a certified letter to the only address of hers I have in hopes that I get some reply. 90 days after the letter has been received (or returned) I will go ahead and do just that. I did hold onto the best pair of his offspring for her.

[Wilomn]

Thank you very much, Wes. That is exactly what I was looking for. Opinions on how long I should hold onto this male before giving up hope.

I am going to send a certified letter to the only address of hers I have in hopes that I get some reply. 90 days after the letter has been received (or returned) I will go ahead and do just that. I did hold onto the best pair of his offspring for her.
Then you've done all you can resonably be expected to.

[Bill_Leverton]

Please do not lecture me on how to handle a breeding loan. I have successfully handled 2 other breeding loans this year without mishap. This has been my only issue, and in truth, it is not anything in my control. The whole point of this is I CAN NOT locate her.
My point is, how long should I wait? 1 year? 2 years? I really do not want to continue houseing & feeding an animal that is not mine nor will be in any of my projects.
The last time I heard from her was on May 15th when the 2 eggs from the first clutch he fathered with one of my Amel Stripes hatched. Since then, their has been nothing.
I am very concerned because she was always very quick to respond to me.
Steph, I understand your concern, If this person disappeared off the face of this earth, My suggestion is If he has been a good breeder then continue to use him if you can and put a little of the procedes aside, and if you are able to get in touch then you give them the procedes and the snake back ( I say about 6 months), People never know what may of happened to this person they may of ran into trouble, left state unexpectedly, or just abandoned the snake, No one will ever know unless contact is made, Who knows it may never happen.......6 more months Tops.

[Laura Fopiano]

Stephanie, I applowed you on your efforts to return the animal. How many times have we all read on the BOI about breeding loans gone terribly wrong. You are the example of what is right in this industry!! Kudos to you Steph!!!

[reptilebreeder]

Please do not lecture me on how to handle a breeding loan. I have successfully handled 2 other breeding loans this year without mishap. This has been my only issue, and in truth, it is not anything in my control. The whole point of this is I CAN NOT locate her.

My point is, how long should I wait? 1 year? 2 years? I really do not want to continue houseing & feeding an animal that is not mine nor will be in any of my projects.

The last time I heard from her was on May 15th when the 2 eggs from the first clutch he fathered with one of my Amel Stripes hatched. Since then, their has been nothing.

I am very concerned because she was always very quick to respond to me.what an @ss. Handled two whole other breeding loans without a mishap did you? All right! You made a post asking what you should do with the snake, a suggestion was made that you should continue to care for it, another made a suggestion to sell it after an amount of time. Don't like the first suggestion, post explaining you have no more need for it, or whatever, no need to get arrogant, and condescending. Reminds me of another "good guy" who very few "read" him right just based on his posts.

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Stephanie, I applowed you on your efforts to return the animal. How many times have we all read on the BOI about breeding loans gone terribly wrong. You are the example of what is right in this industry!! Kudos to you Steph!!!

Thank you, Laura. I'm trying to handle this the best way I can without putting myself in a negative light. I realise their are a lot of problems surrounding breeding loans, and I was not sure how to handle this (without having to feed & house this animal for years upon end). She is/was a very nice woman, and I'd hate to upset her, but really what am I supposed to do when she does not reply for months & her phone is disconnected? I'm crossing my fingers that the certified letter gets through to SOMEONE so that I have some sort of information to go on.

My suggestion is If he has been a good breeder then continue to use him if you can and put a little of the procedes aside, and if you are able to get in touch then you give them the procedes and the snake back ( I say about 6 months)

I wouldn't have such an issue continueing to feed & house him for another year if I could use him again. But he no longer fits into anything I have here (unless I were to pair him with something and produce a bunch of Normal hets).

what an @ss. Handled two whole other breeding loans without a mishap did you? All right! You made a post asking what you should do with the snake, a suggestion was made that you should continue to care for it, another made a suggestion to sell it after an amount of time. Don't like the first suggestion, post explaining you have no more need for it, or whatever, no need to get arrogant, and condescending. Reminds me of another "good guy" who very few "read" him right just based on his posts.

I wasn't going to give you the pleasure of a reply for your trolling, but I couldn't help myself...

I replied in an "even tone" (if what I replied with could have been heard) & explained further what I was looking for. People who are being an "@ss" as you put it would not use the word "please" in a sentence. I also did not say that the two other breeding loans were my ONLY ones, just the only two others from this year. And comparing me to TSE not only shows your ignorance, but also YOUR need of an attitude adjustment.

[liquidleaf]

I can see how Christopher66's comment might rub TripleMoon's feathers the wrong way... I read "you should continue to care for the snake" and thought to myself "what, like she's going to let it starve to death just because she doesn't know where the owner is? Come on!" - it's easy to misinterpret typed words due to the lack of vocal tone, and some people are just better at expressing exactly what they mean than others. No one was NOT trying to be helpful though.

This is a business forum, however, so it should be assumed that people are experienced reptile owners FIRST so as to not step on any toes. Some people post replies to messages on ALL forums as if replying to a beginner. No one knows for sure the experience level of anyone else, so it's best to ask that than to just reply as if they don't know anything. Just my two measly cents. :)

[christopher66]

I can see how Christopher66's comment might rub TripleMoon's feathers the wrong way... I read "you should continue to care for the snake" and thought to myself "what, like she's going to let it starve to death just because she doesn't know where the owner is? Come on!" - it's easy to misinterpret typed words due to the lack of vocal tone, and some people are just better at expressing exactly what they mean than others. No one was NOT trying to be helpful though.

This is a business forum, however, so it should be assumed that people are experienced reptile owners FIRST so as to not step on any toes. Some people post replies to messages on ALL forums as if replying to a beginner. No one knows for sure the experience level of anyone else, so it's best to ask that than to just reply as if they don't know anything. Just my two measly cents. :)


I was through voicing my opinions in this thread,even though there were slight subtle references to me ,you saw fit to use my name.So it behoves me to address it.

When i said "you should continue to care for the snake" ,there was absolutely no implication that the snakes welfare was in question.I fully believe that she,(Triple Moons) is a more than a competent and compassionate animal person.
And that she has the animals well being in mind .And was looking for how other people would handle the same situation.

My tone typing is my tone talking.Ive encountered problems more then once over it.When i type it comes out much more dryer though.
I am aware its some thing that i need to do better with.

Yes ,i approached the question from the business aspect of it.
I would not want her to find a home for the animal and then have the rightfull owner show up .She ,TME ,would then be in a awkward position,and the situation might turn unpleasant.
Even though she did her best to find the person ,maybe the person has a great attachment to the animal and even though she wasn't able to be in touch , trusted TME and knew the animal would be well cared for and was in good hands.
The owner might not be very happy with why her animal is not were she believed it to be ,and say some not nice things to TME and to possible perspective clients and or existing clients of TME.
This would be a most problematic headace to say the least.

That was the only thing i was trying to convey.

And i hope i have not offended anyone more with my tone. :)

Chris

[Chameleon Company]

Stephanie,
Without parsing every word spoken by others, and being too lazy to reread to give credit where it is due, I am going to have to agree with Wes and others. That being either stated directly, or by inference, that you do not have a perpetual obligation to keep the animal pending return tomorrow. This would never become a legal issue, as its not a big enough deal to be on any legal radar. At best it would be a BOI type of thing. "Most" folks would acknowledge that you had to make a reasonable effort to locate the owner. You did. Most would acknowledge that you have maintenance issues beyond the normal time-frame of the loan, and could demand compensation for these efforts. Probably the most "legal" solution would be for you to establish a daily maintenance cost for every day beyond the reasonable expectation for the loan. You could apply that to the value of the snake. When the lines intersect, you own it. Or if you sell it, the original owner would only be entitled to the remaining balance after you deducted for costs. Its an ugly situation to be in, but you did not volunteer. For whatever reason, the original owner is at fault for the change in plans, and thusly, the "Plan B" consequences.

Chris 66. You have decided to frequent the Fauna playground much more of late. You are hitting a few walls in your haste. Just IMHO, take a breathe or two, because I think you are hurting yourself in your haste. In that breathe, take the opportunity to look a little better before you leap. This is a tough one to learn, and I must constantly kick myself in the butt for not practicing it (a few Fauna mambers are experts), but as the adage goes:

Brevity is the soul of wit.

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Lookie what I got left by "reptilebreeder" in my Karma bin...

please, that paraghraph was condesending and patronizing. Please or no please

Couldn't spell paragraph & condescending right, but got patronizing ok. :rolleyes:

Who is this guy anyway?

[Wilomn]

Reptilebreeder is actually a pretty good guy who I think misunderstood your response to that post from the guy giving you a hard time. I thought he was being harsh, mentioned it to him seveal posts later and that was that.

Maybe RB missed that part as he is usually a more than decent guy.

[Mooing Tricycle]

Lookie what I got left by "reptilebreeder" in my Karma bin...



Couldn't spell paragraph & condescending right, but got patronizing ok. :rolleyes:

Who is this guy anyway?

Ignore it. People shouldnt hand out karma just because they FEEL like it. they should only hand it out when appropriate, and right now i see people here who certainly deserve a little reprimanding. not you.
there are those here who understand what this website is for, and know how to use it responsibly, and those that abuse it, and treat it like any other forum.

I give you props for trying SO hard to find this snakes owner. id give it another 90 days at most. then do what you will with him, but certainly keep some profits on the side for his rightful owner.

[Mooing Tricycle]

Reptilebreeder is actually a pretty good guy who I think misunderstood your response to that post from the guy giving you a hard time. I thought he was being harsh, mentioned it to him seveal posts later and that was that.

Maybe RB missed that part as he is usually a more than decent guy.

an earlier reply to this thread by Liquidleaf was more than true. People somtimes take a few words written online to heart rather too quickly. somtimes, when you havent been online and dealing with this sort of thing ALL the time, its hard to distiguish well meant words with harsh unneeded words. most of the time, i take everything i read online with a grain of salt. somtimes people just get INTO the moment when typing, and forget something and then it comes out completely diferent than what was originally meant. :P im sure there have been lots of instances here where things might have been meant one way. and came out another.

my best suggestion to all is to read.and reread. ^_^ i know i try my best to. especially with long posts.

[christopher66]

from the guy giving you a hard time. I thought he was being harsh, mentioned it to him seveal posts later and that was that.



I am presuming your speaking of me.
Did you happen to read my respone to Liquidleaf a couple of post ago?
I was not intentionally giving her( TME) a hard time.If it came across that way ,then i apologize.
My second post was harsh ,and i acknowledged that fact.And now apologize for those statements as well .
I was in no way challenging her( TME ) or her herp keeping ways.
I'm sure she( TME ) will do what is right by herself and the animal.

[Wilomn]

I am presuming your speaking of me.
Did you happen to read my respone to Liquidleaf a couple of post ago?
I was not intentionally giving her( TME) a hard time.If it came across that way ,then i apologize.
My second post was harsh ,and i acknowledged that fact.And now apologize for those statements as well .
I was in no way challenging her( TME ) or her herp keeping ways.
I'm sure she( TME ) will do what is right by herself and the animal.
Yeah. I did.

That's why I responded to it again, to say it was addressed and handled a while ago and perhaps someone either missed it entirely or misinterpreted it.

SO, if we're all on the same page here, she should keep it for a little while longer, make a good effort to locate the owner, sell it or give it away if the owner is not found and hang on to a pair of offspring in case the owner shows up in a reasonable amount of time.

That's what I got from this, anyone else get the same?

[Mooing Tricycle]

That's what I got from this, anyone else get the same?

I certainly am!

[TripleMoonsExotic]

First, I want to apologize for my recent post and pulling my own thread off topic. I was pretty steamed at the time at his audacity, particular since the karma was applied a while after his initial post on this thread. I know better then to reply to his continued trolling.
_____________

I have no argument with Chris, and it was my understanding that we both understood where eachother is coming from at this point.
_____________

And because he's been talked about so much recently, here is Pete. :)

[LadyOhh]

I certainly am!

Me too! :)