ANOUNCEMENT! New 2007 Policies!

[High End Herps Inc]

I am not sure if this is the right forum to put this in but I wanted to make an announcement pertaining to a new concept we are launching in 2007 aimed at helping all low-income herpers to acquire the morphs or rare species, pets, breeders, etc, that they want or desire.

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This is the statement we recently posted on our website:

2007 NEW POLICIES!!
We are very excited to announce our latest "pro-herper" concept that will be launched Jan, 01, 2007. As we care about all herpers great and small we decided to launch a new policy aimed at all low-income herpers around the globe. Basically what it boils down to is this: If you are a reptile lover that is not a member of an enormous tax bracket, this is the policy for YOU. For dedicated herpers with average incomes the rare and beautiful high end morphs are not out of your reach. We want to make it not only possible but in fact easy for any herper with any budget to not only have the incredible and rare species and morphs as pets, but also to make lucrative investments that will pay off for them in a very big way and make it possible for them to make wonderful, considerable supplemental income by way of doing something they love doing. Any herper with a verified low income (by demographic definition) is qualified to receive any of our animals at HALF OFF our normally low prices. Thats correct folks, we are here for everybody. Please inquire for more details if you feel you apply. All inquiries and resulting sales are 100% confidential. All our animals are available on the "Half Off" policy. All "Half Off" accounts are available on our incredibly easy Payment Plan described below on this page (of our website). Happy Herping folks and future customers from High End Herps Inc

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If you or someone you know is a good, dedicated herper that happens to have a relatively low income don't hesitate to contact us and we can help you to get what you need. We can help to get you set up in breeding so as to generate extra income that will enable you to afford the better things in life. It's really all very easy and we'll be there every step of the way to help you. Not just with breeding and husbandry, but with caging, rodent breeding systems, business advice, marketing, etc. Please go to our website when you get the opportunity and read a little about what we do.

We're looking forward to hearing from each and every one of you.
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

[Griz]

David, that's an interesting concept. I don't quite know what to think about it. My initial response is simply this..... Because I pay out a much larger portion of my paycheck to the tax God's, that somehow this makes it acceptable to gouge me, as compared to those in a lower tax bracket, when it comes to the pricing of animals.

I don't know, maybe my initial response here is more knee jerk then anything, but from what I just read, it would make me think twice about buying from you since I already know that your prices are inflated by 100%. Probably not the best marketing ploy.

Griz

[Chameleon Company]

Griz writes:
....... Probably not the best marketing ploy.

Ya think ! If and when I get an email from a "potential customer" asking me if I have income-adjusted price brackets for the same animal, I will know who to blame ! Louisiana ... Huey Long ..... some ideas don't die easy. Good luck Dave :rolleyes: .

[kmurphy]

I addition to the fact, as Griz pointed out, you've effectively lowered your prices by 50%, there are other issues. You would need to be a little more specific as to the income guidelines. There is more to the cost of caring for herps than the original purchase price. I would think that someone with a verifyably low income may also have trouble paying for proper care.

[clarinet45]

I addition to the fact, as Griz pointed out, you've effectively lowered your prices by 50%, there are other issues. You would need to be a little more specific as to the income guidelines. There is more to the cost of caring for herps than the original purchase price. I would think that someone with a verifyably low income may also have trouble paying for proper care.


I wholeheartly agree, I often refuse sales when customers tell me that they are 'breaking the bank' just buying a dragon. A big deal when most of my dragons only go for $75 and their setup can cost over $200.
I disagree though that ball pythons are in the same bracket. They are low maintience and high profit. Vet bills are a concern though.

I don't know what to think, personally, about David's new system. Are these people then compelled to offer the same approtunity to their customers when they breed?
I am middle class and I have no idea why anyone would want an animal basicly on a 'pity' sale. Sorry, that's just the way i take it. They should just save up for a pretty pet [they will be cheaper by the time they save up anyway] or get out a small business loan or do a payment plan. 50% off just seems a bit much.

I'm sure you mulled it all over David, I'm just rambling. You have a great site and great animals. I wish you all the luck in the world!

[Mister Internet]

How does one "verify" that someone has a low income purely through "demographic definition"? Isn't this going to have to involve tax paperwork or pay stubs? I'm not sure this is the type of information one would be comfortable passing along to a reptile breeder, nor am I sure you have a legal right to request it. Dunno though... just leaves a weird taste in my mouth.

Plus, this would be INCREDIBLY easy to fake... are you going to use background checks or credit checks to verify authenticity?

[High End Herps Inc]

Thanks for the well wishes and for your nice, positive post Sara.

Yes, this idea/concept will certainly work very well. Already I have gotten a huge response about this from folks that otherwise are unable to afford the nice morphs that they have always wanted. I generally tend to believe that most people are honest and I will usually take someone at face value and give them a chance without just automatically distrusting or disbelieving them.

I also feel that this opportunity enables the less privileged, whom often work MUCH harder to make a living than the upper classes, to make some lucrative investments that can make them 10 to 20-fold their investment in less than 3 years and thus they can then have a better, more rewarding life. Sometimes people just need a little 'leg-up' in life. And I'm here to give it to them. I help anyone with breeding whether they buy from me or not.

Thanks again for your positive post Sara. You get half off on any of our 07 animals just for being a decent human being with an optimistic outlook on life. Too bad everyone couldn't be like you.

David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

[Cat_72]

Well, I think it's a great concept, but I've always been a firm believer in the idea of if you can't afford the initial purchase of the animal, how are you going to pay for the proper care, setup, etc.....especially when touting the huge profit people can make in 2-3 years, don't you think that could be setting people's expectations a bit high? From my understanding, (please correct me if I am wrong) most of the animals you deal with are the very large snakes (retics, burms), which can be very expensive to feed and house properly....then to feed and house the offspring of that pair until they are sold? I've been in this "business" for a few years now, and I have yet to make a REAL profit, more less doubling or tripling my investments.

Believe me, I understand not being able to afford the brand new high dollar morphs, I have scrimped and saved for what I have....but I fear that a deal like this may open up a whole new can of worms that you may not be prepared for. Verifying that someone's income is actually what they say it is can be an interesting and difficult venture in itself.

That and, well, as Griz said, is it going to hurt your sales from those who actually CAN afford the higher priced animals, but know that you could be selling them for a lot less but choose to price them higher based on what they can afford to pay?

Like I said, it's a great concept.....but I think it needs some more contemplation before implementation.

[Mooing Tricycle]

Thanks again for your positive post Sara. You get half off on any of our 07 animals just for being a decent human being with an optimistic outlook on life. Too bad everyone couldn't be like you.

David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

You go sara ^_^


I think this is a cool idea too and im interested in how it will turn out. Since this idea is aimed at people like myself, i am somewhat intrigued as to how it all works out. There are some animals ive been interested in and maybe this is the way to go? Maybe once i get one things all finished up with another user here, ill look into this too.

Youre going to be making alot of people REALLY happy methinks!!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[High End Herps Inc]

I think this is a cool idea too and im interested in how it will turn out. Since this idea is aimed at people like myself, i am somewhat intrigued as to how it all works out. There are some animals ive been interested in and maybe this is the way to go? Maybe once i get one things all finished up with another user here, ill look into this too.

Youre going to be making alot of people REALLY happy methinks!!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Email me any time and I'll explain in greater detail how it works and I'll help you to get a nice breeding group going that will certainly pay off in 2 to 3 years. I also help all my customers with cheap but effective caging systems, locating inexpensive food sources, marketing their offspring, web design, breeding information and of course an overall comprehensive business plan, all sure to help one succeed. All free.

Honestly, if any of my customers or even occasional herpers that ask for and use my advice should ever fail in their breeding endeavors I would take it as a personal failure on my part in my duty to assist them in their success. When done correctly, the only way to fail in reptile breeding is if your breeding stock dies. If you obtain your breeding stock from a 'clean, pure source', such as from our closed colonies, and you never cross contaminate them with reptiles from unknown sources with unknown histories then your colony will also remain healthy for their natural lifespans.

I am opening a franchise near you Alicia in NH. Perhaps you will be able to make a short drive to hand pick your stock should you decide to go this route.

Let me know what I can do to help.
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

[Gary O]

There are a few things I see that could go wrong.

1) People got upset with MKR and them lowering their prices for everyone. Now you just took some people and said screw you. And then took others and said here is the world.

2) You will have people that will now have family members that never owned herps buying form you. Why? Becuase they are lower income and the high income herp person wants things cheaper.

I honestly think a payment plan to hold an animal would have been a better plan. Or just price your animals at a price for everyone. As I believe you should be able to price your animals at what ever you want. But to seperate people on what price they pay becuase of how much they make? What about the people getting food stamps and what not. Now I pay taxes to help them eat and support their hobbies. See my point?

This is a very noble thing and I think your heart is in the right place. I really really do. But I also think if you want to sell albino Ball pythons for 600 bucks then just do it for everyone. yeah with this new plan you will make alot of people happy but you may also make people very mad. And I am not just saying a little. You may lose the top end sales to these people that earn more.

This is just my opinion. I know it is not what you wanted to hear. But sometimes you have to look at the whole photo album and not just a picture on one page.

[Chameleon Company]

Dave,
I wish you nothing but the best, and hope that whatever you end up implementing is enormously successful ... BUT ! The big BUT !!! If such a marketing strategy involving investment or collectable items is to be considered, and even remarked upon as likely to succeed (vs. this is an idea that could "bite you in the butt"), might I wonder why no other business in America, reptile or otherwise, has used such a strategy ? Outside of "10% off for senior citizens", all other subsidies (discounts, etc) for the poor are just that, subsidies by the government where the seller still gets full price. Just food for thought, but what you are doing amounts to shooting yourself in the foot on a marketing principle known as "value perception". It is real. On the other hand, if this is a cover to sell more animals by cutting your price in half, and bypass the criticism laid at the feet of such as MKR (we're on the same page there Tom), then it might work. In that scenario, you are not expecting, or relying on, "full-price" customers to sustain your business anyway....... good luck, sincerely.

[clarinet45]

Thanks for the well wishes and for your nice, positive post Sara.

Yes, this idea/concept will certainly work very well. Already I have gotten a huge response about this from folks that otherwise are unable to afford the nice morphs that they have always wanted. I generally tend to believe that most people are honest and I will usually take someone at face value and give them a chance without just automatically distrusting or disbelieving them.

I also feel that this opportunity enables the less privileged, whom often work MUCH harder to make a living than the upper classes, to make some lucrative investments that can make them 10 to 20-fold their investment in less than 3 years and thus they can then have a better, more rewarding life. Sometimes people just need a little 'leg-up' in life. And I'm here to give it to them. I help anyone with breeding whether they buy from me or not.

Thanks again for your positive post Sara. You get half off on any of our 07 animals just for being a decent human being with an optimistic outlook on life. Too bad everyone couldn't be like you.

David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc


I'm.... pretty speechless. Thanks!

[Mooing Tricycle]

I am opening a franchise near you Alicia in NH. Perhaps you will be able to make a short drive to hand pick your stock should you decide to go this route.

Let me know what I can do to help.
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

Ill have to check it out eventually when you do open it up! Do you have a date set for when you might open?

[High End Herps Inc]

Gary,

You must be commended for your post. You have demonstrated here with this post that you may disagree with my concept/idea on some levels but that you are still able to tactfully and eloquently make your point without insulting me or unnecessarily putting down my business.

I want to set a few things right with a few things in your post that you either got wrong, or that I disagree with:

1) I don't appreciate the comparison to MKR. That is way off base and there is no comparison. They set their prices low on mass produced animals with the sole intention of damaging the ball market so as to seek a revenge on certain ball-morph-based reptile breeding businesses, (which will remain un-named). We keep our prices on all our morphs at what we consider to be a "fair market value" based on the availability of the morph/species and upon our 4 month unconditional guarantee, which no one else anywhere offers or comes close to.

2) We do have a payment plan. The best and easiest to manage in the entire reptile industry. It's on our first page on our website. One can obtain any animal (or group of animals) from us for just 50 dollars down and as little as 50 dollars every 90 days. We also feed their animals for free and they can choose how big they want their animal/s to grow by the time they get it or them, (within healthy perimeters)

3) I don't produce ball morphs. I have my own reasons for this which do not have to be stated here.


1) People got upset with MKR and them lowering their prices for everyone. Now you just took some people and said screw you. And then took others and said here is the world.

I honestly think a payment plan to hold an animal would have been a better plan. Or just price your animals at a price for everyone. As I believe you should be able to price your animals at what ever you want. But to seperate people on what price they pay becuase of how much they make? What about the people getting food stamps and what not. Now I pay taxes to help them eat and support their hobbies. See my point?

This is a very noble thing and I think your heart is in the right place. I really really do. But I also think if you want to sell albino Ball pythons for 600 bucks then just do it for everyone.

As to anything else, I respect your opinion and would never attempt to try to change it. Differing opinions is what makes the world an interesting place.

Thanks for your input,
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

[High End Herps Inc]

Ill have to check it out eventually when you do open it up! Do you have a date set for when you might open?

It should be up and running in 4 to 6 months.

David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

[kmurphy]

We're looking forward to hearing from each and every one of you.

I thought every post was a positive post. Didn't you want to know what others thought? Can I get 50% off now. :rofl:

[Chameleon Company]

David,
Speaking only for my mention of MKR, but also assuming that Gary's was the same, it had to do with the extent to which MKR was perceived to have "crashed the market", and no one made a link to any other ethics parallels. Again, it harkens back to value perception. If a furniture store has a sign in the window that says "All things half price every Tuesday", many buyers would have a hard time justifying ponying up full price the other 6 days of the week. If one customer can buy at $5, and the other must pay $10, the customer paying $10 is going to have a difficult time perceiving that the value is $10.
If your animals truly have a value above the "half-price-for-the-poor" price, is it not prudent for a buyer with deeper pockets to find someone who would qualify to buy yours at the lower price to make the purchase ? Perhaps for a "poor buyer" to become a bit entrepreneurial and find a way to resell at a mark-up ?
You chose to post this here in Fauna, and some have raised very legitimate red flags, such as proof of qualification, value perception, is there an existing parallel model, etc. Just trying to make the world an interesting place :thumbsup: .

[Cat_72]

David,

The fact that you already do offer an excellent and easy payment plan is what first caused me to question the whole idea. If the snakes are already priced at what you believe is a fair price, why do certain people get to purchase at below that price? Is it not a fair price for everyone? If you can still make a fair profit selling them at half price, why are you selling to some at the higher price? Different areas of the country have different standards for "low income", are you going to differentiate for cost of living? I've dealt with people applying for free and reduced-cost memberships at the YMCA where I used to work, and even for that small amount, you'd be surprised the lengths people would go to just do convince us that they were low-income, when indeed they were not.

I understand you have the best of intentions, but I think these are the sort of questions that a lot of people will have, and I do think they are fair questions.

[High End Herps Inc]

Hello Cat,

They are fair questions. But I would think that what I am doing and why should be self-evident and self explanatory. I will however answer each of your questions in turn and hope that I can make some sense of this for you and some of the others that don't quite see the logic of it.

<The fact that you already do offer an excellent and easy payment plan is what first caused me to question the whole idea. If the snakes are already priced at what you believe is a fair price, why do certain people get to purchase at below that price?>

Because they can't afford them at the fair market prices and I have the power to give them what they want at an affordable price based on their limited income.

<Is it not a fair price for everyone? If you can still make a fair profit selling them at half price, why are you selling to some at the higher price?>

No, this is custom-tailored for disadvantaged people that don't have it so easy. That don't have good paying jobs. That don't have well-to-do family to help them in times of need. That are on their own. There are a lot of folks that just barely make ends meet and I came up with this notion so as to help such people to have an opportunity to actually turn things around for themselves. To be able to generate more income so as to have a better life. Sure there are low-down scammers that try to lie, cheat and con their way through life. But that doesn't mean that everybody is that way. And I won't let the minority of bad apples ruin it for the majority of good folks in the world.

<Different areas of the country have different standards for "low income", are you going to differentiate for cost of living?>

Yes. That is what I mean by, (by demographic definition). I realize that minimum wage and the cost of living in New York is different than in Alabama.

<I understand you have the best of intentions, but I think these are the sort of questions that a lot of people will have, and I do think they are fair questions.>

Sure they are fair questions. I hope I helped to make this easier to understand. I do have the very best intentions for every form of herper from every walk of life. I'm sure you would not begrudge a disadvantaged herper from getting a break if it came down to it.

Back door deals are made all the time by every breeder in the world. They sell their stock to their business acquaintances and friends for ten cents on the dollar. But nobody really ever hears of this. It also has no effect on the actual market one bit. I will never list my animals for listed half values. People may apply quietly and discretely and it will never be advertised. I merely made this announcement and posted about it on our site because I must let the herp world at large know what we are doing here for the less fortunate. It's our way of giving back and spreading our own good fortune I suppose. All I know is it feels very good when I am able to help good folks out that are just down on their luck. I hope that eventually everyone is able to see the good side of this.

David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

[Griz]

As I said earlier, this is interesting. Your motives may genuinely be purely altruistic and if so, then who can fault you for sincerely wanting to help others? However, as has been pointed out, your actions are not without problems.

I also feel that this opportunity enables the less privileged, whom often work MUCH harder to make a living than the upper classes, to make some lucrative investments that can make them 10 to 20-fold their investment in less than 3 years and thus they can then have a better, more rewarding life.

Do NOT make the assumption that the vast majority of people who earn above average incomes work less than those who earn lower incomes. When most of my friends, who still earn lower then average incomes, were out partying when they were younger, I was going to school full-time and working full-time. It was that dedication that allowed me to earn the income that I have now. And, as a business owner, I guarantee you that I work just as hard, if not harder then your average worker. What I earn, what I own, is due solely to my hard work and not the gift of others.

Secondly, you mention in your earlier posts that you are doing this so that the individuals earning a lower than average income can make a 10-20 times return on their investments. While the thought, in theory at least, might be noble it is also very poor advice. Not many people can reap that kind of return let alone if their incomes are at levels that prohibit them from paying normal retail prices of said animals. Truly, the only person here that is benefiting is you with the increase in sales. The advice that they need to hear is the value in a 401K, or in using flex credits through their employer, or even life insurance. To advise individuals who are having a hard time making ends meet to invest in animals vs making sure they have life insurance, is poor advice to say the least.

Again, assuming your intentions are noble, I understand what you are doing although I disagree with it. To think that my years of hard work and labor to get where I am today is now being met with a "your price for xyz animal is twice what Joe Schmoe on welfare is" is rather hard to swallow regardless of your intent.

David, this is simply one man's opinion and the other side of the coin. Regardless, I wish you well on your endeavors and hopefully future one's will be a bit better thought out.

Griz

[Sadie]

I'm having trouble articulating why this idea is offensive to me, but I think it boils down to the following:

I find it a bit presumptuous (can I say arrogant?) for a reptile breeder to adjust prices for "people who need a leg up" based on arbitrary measurements like income or cost of living. There are many many factors that affect how much money a person is willing or able to spend on herps. :NoNo:

Breeding herps is hardly a quick route to lifelong financial success. You are not doing these people (or the animals) any favours by selling them off like meal tickets. I find it unethical. Many people have already gone into debt to buy animals under the assumption that there's a big payoff in a few years. That's like taking out a second morgage to buy lottery tickets. There's a neverending stream of posts about the ball market crashing, and unexpected losses. And if there's no payoff?

I also believe your heart is on the right place, but I'm sure that you could help out the "disadvantaged" in some other way that does not discriminate against everyone else.

What happens when you have to raise your regular prices just to make a profit? :shrug01:

How about choosing a person or charitable cause each month that you feel would benefit the most from your generosity, and give them a free herp? Or have a draw. You would get more interest from people who wouldn't be able to afford to buy the animal, than the "well-off" ones that already have three.

No offense meant, just trying to predict the consequences of your decision. On the up side you will have some very happy people. :thumbsup:

[kmurphy]

What happens when you have to raise your regular prices just to make a profit?

Or the flip side, what happens (to their investment) when the reduced price becomes the norm.

[Chameleon Company]

As mentioned by Bob and others, the notion to want to help those in need is noble.

However, much of this troubles me, as displayed in these quotes of you David:

There are a lot of folks that just barely make ends meet and I came up with this notion so as to help such people to have an opportunity to actually turn things around for themselves. To be able to generate more income so as to have a better life.

Most of us are likely just as noble when we donate to charities. We "donate" though, and do not "sell at half price". We do not then toot our own horn about our intent to donate, or to "sell" cheap.

I merely made this announcement and posted about it on our site because I must let the herp world at large know what we are doing here for the less fortunate.

Must ? David, call me the classic cynic, but all I see here is you tooting your own horn in a most unflattering way to many of us. This of braggadocio not normally seen with charitable intentions.

Have to go with Griz on this one:

Truly, the only person here that is benefiting is you with the increase in sales.

Not only for the potential increase in sales, but for the rather naked attempts to high-five oneself. I feel like I'm watching a bad "you too can become rich" infomercial aimed at the poor. I think that Leah nailed it with the word "arrogant". IMMHO, this was not the way to do it, and it reaks.

[jglass38]

I think its a poor idea all the way around. First off, if a person can't afford to pay full price for an animal, what is going to happen when that snake gets a RI and needs veterinary care? I can pretty much guarantee it will sit in its enclosure until it dies of illness. Second, why would you ever tell people that they are going to make money breeding animals. Yes it can be done, but for a low income family, I don't think its the safe choice. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money in the last few years on animals, caging, supplies and vet visits. This is not a get rich quick business and its just flat out irresponsible to sell it as such to those who might be looking for a quick way out of a bad financial situation. Lets also not forget that David specializes in large constrictors. Where are the low income housing families going to put a 14+' snake? Why not just sell snakes and keep the self promotion to a minimum?

[Cat_72]

Secondly, you mention in your earlier posts that you are doing this so that the individuals earning a lower than average income can make a 10-20 times return on their investments. While the thought, in theory at least, might be noble it is also very poor advice. Not many people can reap that kind of return let alone if their incomes are at levels that prohibit them from paying normal retail prices of said animals. Truly, the only person here that is benefiting is you with the increase in sales. The advice that they need to hear is the value in a 401K, or in using flex credits through their employer, or even life insurance. To advise individuals who are having a hard time making ends meet to invest in animals vs making sure they have life insurance, is poor advice to say the least.

I think this is probably the biggest part of what I see wrong with the whole plan, David. I know all too many people that have gotten involved in risky investments they really can't afford to begin with, thinking that they are going to find a quick and easy "leg up"....only to end up in worse shape than when they started due to circumstances out of their control. Folks that are financially strapped to begin with need to look first and foremost to secure investments that they KNOW will be there when their family is in need. Investment in ANY animal is risky, and as much as you plan on "being there" to help that person out...there is always going to be risks that some people just can't afford to take. Griz is right on the money with this one...pun intended.

That, and as Jamie reiterated..I worry about the ability to properly care for the animals if they can't afford to buy them at the first place. :shrug01:

Sure, I've given a "deal" here and there to folks, and it's nice to be able to do so, but I never do so with the promise that they will be making a financial return on the animal. It's strictly for the giving them the joy of having them as a pet.

[Scott Ashton]

A noble idea.

However you may be positioning yourself contrary to The Robinson-Patman Act of 1936. Additionally, the FTC Act and the Sherman Act may have relevance as well.

Its less the price differentiation than the stated goal. By differentiating price in order to position an individual or entity to engage in trade within a competitive market and thus providing an advantage in that market you may be seen as engaging in anti-competitive behavior. If you cannot prove that these relationships result in a demonstrable reduction in your product cost that would have relevance in furnishing your goods at a reduced cost - you indeed have violated the Robinson-Patman Act of 1936.

But I'm sure you have vetted your plan with a qualified trade attorney (which I clearly am not).

At any rate I wish you the best with your new policy.

[DISCERN]

This whole idea is also absurd in the sense that with this " program " or what have you, the animals are looked at as " investment opportunities ". I always abhor that attitude. While making money in breeding is always a good thing in itself, I find this whole view upon the animals, from High End Morphs perspective, unhealthy and also as nothing more than supposed ways to make money and to make it unrealistically.

Who can guarantee in 2 or 3 years that these snakes will make the money back for the owners to be able to enjoy better opportunities to begin with? You can not guarantee that at all.

Also, let's say if the " market price " is still going strong and not lowered much by then, who's to say how many buyers there will be for everyone's certain morphs? What if hardly anything is selling? There are times where there is more supply than demand. I think it is safe to say that now with the quadrillions of ball pythons still not sold, it is possible that may be the case and serves as a great example.

Due to all of this, then all of these promises made by this new campaign mean nothing. Also, wouldn't this be considered unfair by people, who originally paid the original higher prices for these " high end " morphs?

Scott Ashton, your post was great.

[Griz]

This just simply does not add up to me.

1) You have an individual who is making some rather key errors (asking a potential new hire their age???) that anyone who has an ounce of business sense would know not to ask.

2) You have an individual who just broke his own arm by patting himself on his back regarding cutting rates for the less fortunate. Again, a very amateur mistake.

3) You have an individual who is talking about opening up a franchise in 48 states.

4) You have an individual who is offering a "too good to be true" job offer.

5) You have an individual who is "keeping the job offer open until May 2007". You would think that if they truly needed this position filled that someone would jump on the chance to take it so why hasn't anyone done this yet?

6) Your website seems to be entirely devoted to instilling a sense of confidence in a potential buyer. I have never seen a seller that was attempting to put into people's minds that you often times spend 3 hours on the phone with your customers. Everything mentioned, at least on the front page, is very atypical of a true business who did not have ulterior motives.

7) On your feedback page, you leave out any identifying marks from your buyers but make sure to leave identifying marks from those whom simply were not buyers but simply commenting on your site.

When all is said and done, this appears to be a feeble attempt at making one's business sound a lot larger than what it really is. Obviously done in an attempt to garner more sales, ala TSE, by appearing to be something in which they are not.

David, if am I wrong I will be the first one to apologize but my gut instinct tells me that this whole setup stinks to high heaven. It simply does not add up.

Griz

[Griz]

David just hit me with negative Karma for supposedly trying to make him look bad. I did not realize that I had done this as I thought I saw him with the shovel, not me.

David, since you have obviously read EVERYONE'S posts regarding how you do not add up, why don't you take the time to address the questions posed. If your legit then it will surely add up. If you're not, well.......

Griz

[Chameleon Company]

Seems you rained on his parade, and he wasn't expecting to need an umbrella :shrug01:.

[Bill & Amy]

Looks like he is getting the same type of response on other forums. :ack2:

[High End Herps Inc]

Seems you rained on his parade, and he wasn't expecting to need an umbrella :shrug01:.

Not at all Jim,

We are unaffected by and immune to any criticism and/or ridicule. We also respect and welcome all opinions, not just those in favor of us and our policies but also the negative or less positive ones, however insignificant and impotent they may be.

Needless to say we are very proud of all of our policies and they all shall remain intact and forever impervious to criticism by the lowest common denominator. Like they say Jim, you can't please everyone.

Y'all take care now,
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc
Singin in the rain

[Griz]

Like they say Jim, you can't please everyone.


Don't they also say that "there's a sucker born every minute?" Sounds like someone wants to capitalize on that saying, doesn't it?

David, instead of "being impervious" why don't you simply answer the questions posed to you?

Griz

[Chameleon Company]

Griz:
David just hit me with negative Karma for supposedly trying to make him look bad.

David:
We are unaffected by and immune to any criticism and/or ridicule. We also respect and welcome all opinions, not just those in favor of us and our policies but also the negative or less positive ones, however insignificant and impotent they may be.

:shrug01:

[DISCERN]

Very good Jim!

[Cat_72]

Why ask for other's opinions/ideas if you're going to turn around and say that what others think doesn't matter? There's some excellent knowledge and ideas here, as well as some genuine legal concerns, but I guess if you're "immune" to all of that.... :shrug01:

[Bill & Amy]

You mean it isn't a good idea to put giant constrictors in the hands of inexperienced people looking to make a quick buck? :ack2:

:bandhead0 :bandhead0

[Cat_72]

You mean it isn't a good idea to put giant constrictors in the hands of inexperienced people looking to make a quick buck? :ack2:

:bandhead0 :bandhead0

Well gee, when you put it THAT way Bill..... :erm: :iagree:

[High End Herps Inc]

[QUOTE=Cat_72]Why ask for other's opinions/ideas if you're going to turn around and say that what others think doesn't matter?QUOTE]


I never asked for anyone's opinions. I made an announcement. A statement. Big difference. I guess some folks just like to interject their opinions into other peoples business. So be it. It's a free country last I checked. Knock yourselves out guys. Keep it at the top for me then I don't have to bump it back up.

Best of luck to y'all in your own business and breeding,
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

[Chameleon Company]

Dave,
Happy holidays ! Look, its hard to read your reply and not get a sense of some contempt from you towards some of the criticism levied at you. All understandable. I had some critical things to say myself. Regardless of whatever may or may not have truly motivated you, the following aspects/outcomes of your idea are worthy, to the extent that they would occur:

1) You sell more snakes and make more money.

2) Legitimate potential customers who could not afford to buy from you might now get a price break.

3) Any true sense of charity that you derive from this.

4) Any joy that you can impart to others because of this.

I would suggest, and only in my usual arrogant IMMHO, that your "announcement" here and in your website embraced far more than just the above, whether it was your intention or otherwise. The appearance was there for all of the things that you have been criticized for in posts here. Whether you meant to grandstand and toot your own horn or not doesn't matter. It sure came off that way. Whether you believed and/or truly hoped that you would be uplifting the less fortunate among us into the realms of successful reptile entrepreneur, you made it sound far simpler than most of us know that it is ..... not unlike a used car salesman trying to convince me "its just like a Cadillac". I think that most of us hope that your business thrives, genuinely and with all sincerity. But the idea, the plan, the sales pitch, and the expectations all need some tweaking. But do get rich young man.

[Scott Ashton]

I never asked for anyone's opinions. I made an announcement. A statement. Big difference. I guess some folks just like to interject their opinions into other peoples business. So be it. It's a free country last I checked. Knock yourselves out guys. Keep it at the top for me then I don't have to bump it back up.

Best of luck to y'all in your own business and breeding,
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc

You posted your "announcement" in the Business Discussion Forum. The key there being discussion. This forum isn't a media outlet for your press releases. If you didn't want it discussed you shouldn't have posted it in a discussion forum.

[Griz]

Just some more interesting reads that involved High End Herps. I will let you make the call on whether to become involved.

Bob Clarks Forum (http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33140&FORUM_ID=32&CAT_ID=13&Topic_Title=Keep+responding+to+this+guys+threads%2 E%2E%2E&Forum_Title=Off+Topic+Forum)

50% off for WIC clients (http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39969)

Is the cage really that small? (http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=40006&page=6&pp=10)

It appears there are a LOT of unanswered questions here pertaining to High End Herps, the least of which is who are they really? Their identity is still very much an unknown.

Who do I forward my resume to again????

Griz

[jglass38]

Just some more interesting reads that involved High End Herps. I will let you make the call on whether to become involved.

Bob Clarks Forum (http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33140&FORUM_ID=32&CAT_ID=13&Topic_Title=Keep+responding+to+this+guys+threads%2 E%2E%2E&Forum_Title=Off+Topic+Forum)

50% off for WIC clients (http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39969)

Is the cage really that small? (http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=40006&page=6&pp=10)

It appears there are a LOT of unanswered questions here pertaining to High End Herps, the least of which is who are they really? Their identity is still very much an unknown.

Who do I forward my resume to again????

Griz
Every post from High End Herps screams desperation and "look at me". First it was his all out assault on the Ball market, then the Section 8 snake special and sprinkled in between are lots of things that make no sense or beg answers.

[High End Herps Inc]

*Bump!*

[HerpVenue]

Bump?

What do you mean bump?

What everyone should be saying is..................
sniff sniff. I smell something fishy.

[HerpVenue]

We are currently consulting with a lawyer to determine the extent of the illegal nature of these posts and we are going to, if possible, pursue this in court to the fullest extent of the law. Ian Van Natter will be subpeonaed to face charges of libel in our home state

Thought he was just consulting with a lawyer?
all of a sudden charges appear and subpoenas appear.

sniff sniff............fishy

[joshdhensley]

I see alot of bad feelings from alot of people on this. Maybe rightly so. But, I am middle class. Hell, I'm military (Marine Corps to be exact!) and it is taking me forever to be able to get a pair of het pieds BP's. I have several animals and anytime they need anyhing wether it is for housing, husbandry, or medical attention, they get it. So, with that said, just because someone can't drop several thousand dollars at one time on an animal, that doesn't mean that they can't spend a few hundred to care for it. Hell, it's the people that don't have alot of money that Really love what they got. Not to say that everyone else doens't, just that alot arn't really concerd about the loss that they may take financialy if something happens to one of their animals. Great job David and Tawni! Semper Fi!

[Cat_72]

Josh, I think the greatest problem is the fact that they are using the "get rich quick" sales pitch....live animals of any sort are a risky investment at best, and they are targeting those who cannot afford to lose, even at half price.

[joshdhensley]

ANYONE getting in to breeding anything to get rich has alot of dissapointment ahead!! Nothing is guaranteed ofcourse. But, if he is selling animals to people that want to have a great animal or "tinker" in breeding something high end just for the love of it (which is what I personally do), I see nothing wrong with that as long as that IS in fact his intention. Thanks for voicing without attacking.

[Cat_72]

For the most part, I agree with you, Josh. I enjoy giving "deals" to folks that I know can't afford a high-dollar animal.....but I would never sell it to them on the premise that they are going to make money from it. Especially when dealing with the very large snakes that they mainly work with, there is a lot more to consider about keeping them besides how much money you are going to make off from them.

[joshdhensley]

If you are buying something based solely on how much money you are going to make off of it, you are buying for the wrong reason. Unless of course, you are an experianced and somewhat established breeder.

[gant77]

I don't know if this has been covered, BUT if low income people are purchasing your animals what makes you think that they will even take care of it even with your help and advice? I really wish I knew how to word this delicately, but from my personal observations, I have known and met people in the situation you are describing and they don't even take proper care of their dogs and cats. It pissed me off to the point, that I went out and bought food for some of these animals. NO, these people are not friends or even aquaintences anymore. I mean there are people that have a dog and can't or won't even buy a $15 20lb bag of dog food. What happens when they can't afford the 15lb rabbits and such? I know you said you would help find low-cost food but how many "feeder breeders" will sell to you at a discount? They need to make money to. And as far as the irritation of being compared to MKR, they said virtually the same thing, they wanted to give back to the people at a cheaper rate with low-low payment plans. Plus, think of how many of these big snakes will end up in the SPCA's and reptile rescue's or even set free.

[bluesbayou]

If your looking for Het Pieds, come see me at the end of the season in 09' :D
You will have to compete with all the kids though. I give snakes away that don't sell provided the parents say the kid can have it. They do have to work for them though. They do a complete report on the type of snake, habitat, care and then some thing else science related. Ever have a 9 year old tell you about Mendel - in great detail? It would blow your mind what some of these kids would do for a snake - and I feel good giving them to them. On the plus side, they will take over here when we are all to old to read the screen to boot! The majority of the kids I work with would never have gotten a pet snake they wanted if I didn't do this - it makes them prove to themselves, me and mom that they are willing to put the effort in the animal. - But for you Josh, I will just need to see the most current re-enlistment papers! Just bring them on down to SOI and tell 'em your looking for Gunny F - I'll be the guy yelling in the woods. :rofl: Semper Fi.

[joshdhensley]

Thanks alot. I actually just re-enlisted and will be in Pendelton on saturday for SOI instructor course!! Look me up if your in pendelton. If your in Jacksonville, I'm in Havelock (Cherry Point) until Saturday.

Sgt. Hensley, J.D.

[bluesbayou]

Dang! I get home from the Sand Box (3/2) later this month, then I go to Instructor Shool in July on Geiger. So 09 may not be that bad of a deal! I'm sure I'll do a CAX or Mojave Viper (yes that's a real training exercise for us!) when I get back to the fleet. By then I should have some actual visuals and they should only be like $15 or so!lol Becareful in Pendelton, LLL is right out the south gate and they will take a paycheck quicker than you can blink!
Semper,
Blue

[joshdhensley]

Yeah, I've spent a few bucks at LLL at differant times! My wife is from San Diego, so I've been to all the places out there. $15 for a visual huh! All I can say to that is SOLD!! Well, you have my email address both personal and military. Give me a yell sometime. Hopefully this season I will hatch some CB yellow saharan Uromastyx from some of the first american CB parents. We'll see. Let me know if you want some. (Free of charge of course!)

[Laura Fopiano]

I find the whole idea exploitive and condescending at best!!

I am moving to a part of the country where the average yearly salary is much less then I am accustomed to. Does that make me poor and or less fornunate??
Heavens no! My wealth is not measured by dollars that I earn, but by the love and respect that I receive from my family, my partner, and my peers.

While this idea maybe about helping those less than others, maybe you and Tawny should donate some time helping the poor where it is needed. Give 4 hours a week at the Salvation army, serve food at a soup kitchen, and hand out Turkey dinners at a homeless shelter.........and then tell me how selling snakes to those less fortunate will have long term benefits.

Don't give a man a fish, teach him how to fish.

[BryonsBoas]

I was going to stay out of this but after reading it I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in. The idea of selling cheaply / payment plans to less fortunate is the most asinine idea I've heard of in quite some time.

Being in the area Laura spoke of I've been on both sides of the financial fence. I've been so broke my animals were on a revolving feeding schedule and I've been well off enough that everything was squared up weekly.

Considering who your target is I think your playing on the same field the " lottery " and " get rich quick infomercials " dance on.These are the people who live houses falling apart and can't always afford a heating bill much less repairs on their house. These are also the folks who generally drive cars that are sold on the side of the road for a hundred bucks and drive it till it dies , hitch rides or catch buses to work till they can scrape up enough to afford another beater. Most times they buy the cheapest food they can to feed themselves since $6 an hour after taxes don't stretch far .

Since they can barely afford themselves how are they to afford caging upgrades , proper heating and controlling devices , proper vet visits if any are needed ( keep in mind that alot of these are on state assistance for their own medical ) and since they probably can't afford proper caging for the animals they buy from you how will they house the babies they would produce? If egg layers then theres more money to whip up a cheap incubator and cross fingers it works since a good one is probably more than they could afford. Then we get into the computer with internet service so they can post ads and don't forget the phone (most likely on prepaid cards so now more money for more minutes ) to handle inquires . All of a sudden these poor folks gotta crap money they don't have , didn't have and can't get over your idea of breeding snakes for a better life.
Should I start watching late night TV for the next 30 minute spot on " High End Herps Breeding Pythons for a Better Life " ?

[LadyOhh]

My question is, and if this is been addressed already, please feel free to let me know...

HOW DO YOU INTEND TO DECIPHER WHO IS LOW INCOME AND WHO IS NOT?

Are you going to ask for a paystub? Tax report? Credit report, etc?

It seems like discrimination to me in some ways, and a huge problem to most people who may think they are low-income (different states, different costs of living) and may not fall into your categories...

I skimmed thru this thread, but the more I saw, the more appalled I was.

I completely agree with Laura on this one. Go do something more productive if you need to get a "feel good" from doing something good for people. Volunteer at a hospital, Habitat for Humanity, travel to another country and help the poor there, etc... I have done it, and I have to say that it is much more rewarding than selling reptiles to "low income" families. (Although I do love it. It is a different kind of high than Herping, but I digress)

[Griz]

Guys, take a look at this thread and I am sure it will give you all the information you need to understand who High End Herps really are.

High End Herps = Damon Heynen? (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=470749#post470749)

Griz

[Ravens_Mama]

Ok....I had my husband email HEH under the pretenses of wanting to purchase a albino retic ( intentions are true just NOT from him in a million years ) here are the emails abck and forth......i had him ask about the payment plan , the low income half off pricing...etc. Youll notice he is SO quick to answer some things and totally avoids other questions just like he does on the Forums.

How convenient...the payments are to be made out to tawni, sent to Tawni, why nothing in his name??? well maybe because David B ISNT even his name so it would be really hard for him to cash the money in now wouldnt it.

Fri, 5 Jan 2007 07:36:58 -0800 (PST)
David Beauchemin <david_beauchemin@highendherps.com> wrote:
Hi Dustin,

We are out of 06 albino retics but you can reserve an 07
albino and yes, you can get it on a payment plan. We have
the best and easiest to manage payment plans in the world.
The details of our payment plan are outlined on the first
page of our website but it's all really very simple. All
one need do to secure any snake is to send an initial
payment of only 50 dollars, or 10% of the cost of the
snake, whichever is more. Then one may pay as little as 50
dollars or 10% value every 90 day-period. Our only
condition is that payments may not lapse more than 90 days.

Let me know what you would like to reserve and we can go
from there.

Thanks,
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com/
318 335-3673
-------------------------------------------------------------

Wow thanks for the fast response
can i get pics of previous babies? what kinda pricing am i looking at? i was reading some stuff you had posted about low income pricing? what is your basis for low? im located in Wa state....how do you verify?
Dustin
--------------------------------------------------------------------

David Beauchemin <david_beauchemin@highendherps.com> wrote:
Hi Dustin,

I can lock you in at 600 for an albino male from 07. That
is half off our listed prices. Once you make your first
payment I can better explain the low income price
guidelines and how the program works. It's all very easy.
But I do take folks at face value from the getgo when they
tell me they need the low income price plan. I believe that
most people are honest and I have faith in that belief and
that's enough for me.

Let me know when you want to send your payments and I will
email you the address to send them to.

Thanks,
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com/
318 335-3673
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi
Sounds EXCELLENT she is gonna be SOOO friggin excited. Do you have any pics? id really love to show her atleast babies/siblings of what im gonna be paying for since ill have to throw together a lil pamplet like deal to give her for her birthday since they arent even born yet.
Dustin
---------------------------------------------------------------

he then sent a picture of a albino but it had been messed with the colors were SO bright almost neon white and yellow.

---------------------------------------------------------

Oh Wow David that is GORGEOUS...thats what the babies will look like?? when do you expect some? how far down on the waiting list would we be? just wondering cuz i know shes gonna wanna pic her baby out...shes picky lol likes to look for identifying marks and it helps her decide on their name too.
Ok so where do i send the down....do i get a receipt...never done this kinda thing.
Dustin
---------------------------------------------------------------

David Beauchemin <david_beauchemin@highendherps.com> wrote:
Hi Dustin,

I am expecting more than half a dozen unrelated clutches in
the next month alone. They will hatch approximately 2 1/2
to 3 months after they are laid.

All you need to do to initiate a payment plan is to send a
deposit of only 60 dollars. Naturally you can send more if
you like but that is the minimum. 10% of the value of the
snake once reduced to half.

Make all payments out to my wife as she handles all the
Accounting and Receiving. Send only Postal Money Orders
please. These are sold only at post offices. Mail all
payments here to our home address at:

Tawni Beauchemin
1568 Ward Rd. Oakdale, LA 71463

Once we receive your payment we send you a Payment Received
Invoice for your own records. These invoices are sent to
you with every payment and they outline every detail of the
transaction. What you are buying, how much you have paid,
how much has accumulated, and the remaining balance due.
It's all very simple and straightforward.

If you have any additional questions please don't hesitate
to email and I will answer you very promptly.

Thanks,
David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc
http://HighEndHerps.com/
318 335-3673
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi David
sounds good......so my wife should pretty much have no problem of someone else wanting the same one she wants? unless were pretty far down the waiting list.
Thanks for the fast replies.
Dustin
------------------------------------------------------------------

[Bill & Amy]

he then sent a picture of a albino but it had been messed with the colors were SO bright almost neon white and yellow.



Can you post the pic?

[Cat_72]

Once you make your first
payment I can better explain the low income price
guidelines and how the program works.

So, they expect you to send them money, and then you will find out what the guidelines are? :eek:

[Lucille]

money

And nothing (like a credit card payment) that leaves a good record and is subject to chargebacks for unsatisfactory performance; they require postal money orders.

[DThomas]

Let's try to keep everything in one thread.