Pet store owners Geez!1

[ewhitefo]

Anyone have trouble at the local pet store acquiring rats or mice for feeding because the owner of the store thinks that Rats or Mice are so cute and cuddly? Here I do, thank god the owners daughter is somewhat a money hound because they have cases of rats and mice and don't ever want to give em up.. I just fed Goldie a Dumbo Rat because the mice they had were female and they are saving them... It was the largest food item she has eaten to date.. It was still young, not full grown but larger than a mouse by about two times or three times.. Anyhow all eaten up in about 5-10 minutes..

[Mooing Tricycle]

you should never feed your snake larger than the largest section of its body. A LITTLE bit bigger is okay, but too much larger and you risk your animal regurgitating the meal.

[ewhitefo]

Hmm, I don't recall saying that the Rat was wider than the snake, just bigger than the mice I was feeding before.. :shrug01: It was not an adult Rat, just an adolecent.. I said Dumbo Rat, not Jumbo... Dumbo being the Rats with the big ears..

[Wilomn]

Alicia, snakes can and do eat food larger than the largest part of their bodies. They have been for millions and millions of years. More that twice the girth of the snake can indeed lead to reguritation and I wouldn't recommend it, but they can quite easily eat food that is larger than their own girth.

What's that thing they say about not ever saying never?

[Mooing Tricycle]

Alicia, snakes can and do eat food larger than the largest part of their bodies. They have been for millions and millions of years. More that twice the girth of the snake can indeed lead to reguritation and I wouldn't recommend it, but they can quite easily eat food that is larger than their own girth.

What's that thing they say about not ever saying never?


Thats why i said a little larger is okay as well. But General consensus says that you should feed prey items no larger than the widest part of the snake just as a rule of thumb. ^_- id rather see them feeding good sized meals rather than too large and risking the regurge.

[Mooing Tricycle]

Hmm, I don't recall saying that the Rat was wider than the snake, just bigger than the mice I was feeding before.. :shrug01: It was not an adult Rat, just an adolecent.. I said Dumbo Rat, not Jumbo... Dumbo being the Rats with the big ears..


It was the largest food item she has eaten to date.. It was still young, not full grown but larger than a mouse by about two times or three times..

You made it sound like it was bad that you had her eat a rat, just for the sake of having her eat. Dont get me wrong, i never SAID you said anything of that sort.
Now, If youre feeding her mice and she can take a rat of that size, you should be feeding her that size rat instead of one mouse at each feeding.

[Ed Clark]

An occasional oversized food item is not a problem as long as proper temps are maintained. :bolt01:

[ewhitefo]

She won't take Frozen/thawed so i am stuck feeding her live prey items or at least ones I knock silly.. Live Rats of the proper size are hard to come by so i usually feed her a couple mice at each feeding, I think I am going to make a road trip and buy a bunch of feeders at once so I don't have to deal with the local pet shop as much.. It just so happens they had a rat that was a good size I figured she would eat so i took it.. Usually I would have bought two mice and fed her that..

[Mooing Tricycle]

She won't take Frozen/thawed so i am stuck feeding her live prey items or at least ones I knock silly.. Live Rats of the proper size are hard to come by so i usually feed her a couple mice at each feeding, I think I am going to make a road trip and buy a bunch of feeders at once so I don't have to deal with the local pet shop as much.. It just so happens they had a rat that was a good size I figured she would eat so i took it.. Usually I would have bought two mice and fed her that..

Yeah its a pain somtimes when you live in a rural area and depend solely on one store. Trust me, ive had to deal with the same problem at the one i go to thats closer than the "city" near where i live. F/t IS a pain somtimes to switch over to.( shakes fist at snake that feeds on live... )
Have you ever thought of breeding a pair of rats in the meantime and started your own food supply? Then if you ever have too many at one time you can sell to the greedy pet store who seem to NEED to keep their rats and mice :rofl:

Just a suggestion!

[ewhitefo]

I may go that route with mice.. I don't mind feeding mice several at a time and I think they may be easier to keep and breed, also I don't have to worry about them getting too big to feed to goldie... Like I said I think I am going to go load up on mice and see what happens, if I get a pregnant female or two outta the deal then I guess I would be off to the races..

[Seamus Haley]

Couple things.

Discussions about prey size and width relative to that of the snake will vary if a specific species is named, some are more able and inclined to ingest larger items than others and noting the species in question will help pin down just how big is too big... Surface area is going to have a direct impact on digestion, it's not simply a question of mass, snakes don't really chew and have limited peristalisis compared to mammals, bigger doesn't always mean that more is actually going to be digested; shape has a lot to do with absorbed nutritional value given identical total nutritional values, although that's not going to happen so it's further complicated by factors like digestability and nutritional content by layer...

And as to buying animals as feeders when the owner doesn't want to sell them that way- don't. If an individual selling an animal that you consider to be a feeder species doesn't want your business, respecting that and finding another source of prey items is the only responsible course. I have seen loudmouthed jackasses that coincidentally share some of my interests go off on shop owners or big box store employees because they were denied a rodent sale as a matter of policy and it doesn't make the hobby or the hobbiests look good. Conduct yourself with a little respect and decorum and find a supplier who doesn't object to your use rather than causing a problem for one who does. If noplace else in your area can supply the feeders you need and mail order isn't an option due to either volume or specifics (such as needing live) then an intelligent keeper reccognizes their inability to provide food and doesn't keep an animal they can't provide for.

[ewhitefo]

Never caused a problem for them and never will, nor do I consider myself irresponsible. I said that I would load up on feeders, meaning make a road trip where I can buy enough to last me a couple months so that I don't have to go through the local pet store as often. I am a father of 4, married for 13 years and have been employed at the same company for 10 years, wife doesn't need to work. That is real responsibility. I hope you are not questioning mine.

Considering I am on the Ball Python discussion group, I assumed that we are discussing a Ball Python which we are and left that fact out..

My only purpose was to vent a little frustration about dealing with the pet store. I have been totally up front with them and dealt plenty of cash at their store. We own 2 dogs, a cat, 10 parakeets, which we breed and sell babies to them, an Iguana, Gerbil, Guinea Pig, Ball Python, Boa. I live in a town of 7000 people, everyone knows each other, and the Daughter/Mother pet store team is no different. I deal with Jack holes like the ones you mention who feel that its their right to say whatever is on there mind regardless of the circumstances and I would never speak abusively to someone over a 2 dollar rodent. They know exactly what I am coming for and have sold me many mice already but always make sure they mention something about "Oh not my precious rats", or "poor little things", they call me by my first name when I walk into the store. This last time all I said was, "Its all over in about 20 seconds for them" thats all I said while she was digging them out... Somehow their pet cat can maul a wild mouse till it dies but a snake can't dispatch a mouse in mere seconds, I don't get some peoples logic. I have had people over that watched the whole deal and they say "amazing" and that they thought they would be grossed out but were not.. Others who were a little more squeamish about it and I guess think the dog and cat food made of ground up sick farm animals is far more tastefully prepared for their pet. To each his own in this regard and I wouldn't force anyone to think like I do.

[klsl]

I understand the "rat & mouse" hunt too!! I live in a small town and I have to travel 45 minutes away to get live feeders. Luckily, that pet store sells snakes too,therefore, they sell live feeders. My Ball Pythons(1 Albino & 1 Normal) have NEVER taken frozen/thawed. I tried raising feeders myself, but, in the summer you have to keep them cool and in the winter you have to keep them warm....too much trouble...too little time. So, I just go to the pet shop and get several feeders to last a couple of weeks and house them in my garage and put a light bulb over them for heat. I put them in glass aquariums with wire lids, aspen, torn newspaper-they enjoy making a bed out of that! And a hide box. That's worked so far this winter.

[Wolfy-hound]

Yeah, I too have heard many times of proud herp owners talking about hwo they 'told off' a store owner or employee because they refused to sell them a rodent as a feeder. Bottom line is that its THEIR rodents, and if they don't want to, then they don't have to. I'm SO glad you are responsible and don't have or cause problems. It's great to see the few quiet responsible owners since the loud obnoxious ones gets more attention.
I think once in a while a slightly larger prey items isn't going to bug your snake. Most people breed rats rather than mice because of the odor. But if mice work better for you, go for it! Try the vanilla extract in the water trick and clean the cage really often. Maybe you won't have any problems. I did the same thing about loading up on feeders and not having to go local... except I don't have a 'local'. I just have to make a long drive to buy feeders, which is why I started breeding my own rats. No hassle, no drive, fat happy rodents. Hopefully you'll have the same success. Plus its fun to watch the babies when they are hoppers. Cute buggers.
Kudos.
Wolfy

[Mike Greathouse]

Anybody catch the story on CNN yesterday about a "Rat Tax" in New York?
I was only halfway listening and just caught the tail end of the story, but I thought they said there was currently a $1.00 excise tax (they referred to it as an adoption fee) on the purchase of live rats. They were proposing that the tax be raised to $5.00. The sole purpose of this fee was to discourage the purchase of rats for feeding to snakes.

Your tax dollars at work.

[Wolfy-hound]

You HAVE to be joking! OMG. Stupid goes to new heights. A 'rat tax' from the city that spends so much on trying to exterminate rats.
Wolfy

[Seamus Haley]

Never caused a problem for them and never will, nor do I consider myself irresponsible.

Good.

Considering I am on the Ball Python discussion group, I assumed that we are discussing a Ball Python which we are and left that fact out..

A few of the others seemed to be speaking in generalities more than specifics. Still even within a species, the age and general condition of the animal can certainly alter the appropriate prey size based on factors other than the width of the snake, with larger or smaller, thicker or thinner, more or fewer being appropriate.