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Gene Crossings Chart

J

Johnenewt1

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Hi everyone. I'm new to the genes area of beardies and would like to know the gene percentages of babies from the following pairings when they mate together. I am sure there are many people in the community who would also like to know this info. as well. I have not included any "Hets" for anything, as there are bazillions of combinations. For now, I would like to keep it simple. Would someone in the industry who has time and experience in breeding various beardies please fill in the blanks below. For example: after each "=" sign, type: 50% Hypos and 50% Translucents, etc. Thank you for your help! :)


John


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Normal x OGG =
Normal x Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback =
Normal x Recessive Ital. Leatherback =
Normal x Silkie =
Normal x American Smoothie =
Normal x Hypo =
Normal x Translucent =
Normal x Hypo/Translucent =
Normal x Normal =

OGG x Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback =
OGG x Recessive Ital. Leatherback =
OGG x Silkie =
OGG x American Smoothie =
OGG x Hypo =
OGG x Translucent =
OGG x Hypo/Translucent =
OGG x OGG =

Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Silkie =
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x American Smoothie =
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Hypo =
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Translucent =
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Hypo/Translucent =
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Recessive Ital. Leatherback =
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback =

Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Silkie =
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x American Smoothie =
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Hypo =
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Translucent =
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Hypo/Translucent =
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Recessive Ital. Leatherback =

Silkie x American Smoothie =
Silkie x Hypo =
Silkie x Translucent =
Silkie x Hypo/Translucent =
Silkie x Silkie =

American Smoothie x Hypo =
American Smoothie x Translucent =
American Smoothie x Hypo/Translucent =
American Smoothie x American Smoothie =

Hypo x Translucent =
Hypo x Hypo/Translucent =
Hypo x Hypo =

Translucent x Hypo/Translucent =
Translucent x Translucent =

Hypo/Translucent x Hypo/Translucent =
 
lol, c'moooon... noone wants to take a crack at it? Do you know how useful this would be for everyone if it was filled out?



John
 
Hey John...honestly I think it would be better to understand the genetics. This is kind of like giving you the answers to a test. It may help you to take the test, but really you won't understand what it was about.
The genetics with dragons are pretty basic, for the most part.

Once you understand what recessive genes are, and codominant genes, the rest is just filling in the blanks.

A good basic page to understand genetics is here http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_intro.html

I'll tell you what....you read the info, then put what you think the results will be above and then we'll discuss?
Here is a starter for you....any recessive morph(hypo, trans, rec. leather, etc) when crossed to a normal will give you all babies that appear normal, but are 100% het for that morph.
 
I think also the OGG is orange german giant right? In that case for this purpose here it would be considered the same as a normal...not a real "morph"
 
chris allen said:
I think also the OGG is orange german giant right? In that case for this purpose here it would be considered the same as a normal...not a real "morph"
Click to expand...

yeah OGG is a Orange german giant which is nothing but a marketing term in todays market just like leucistic
 
OGG is nothing more than a marketing term so I am not going to touch on them but I can give you some insight on a few to help you out with the ones I know.


Normal x Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback = 50% leathers
Normal x Recessive Ital. Leatherback = 100% normals het for rec. leather
Normal x Silkie = 100% leather
Normal x Hypo = 100% het hypo
Normal x Translucent = 100% het trans
Normal x Hypo/Translucent = 100% het hypo/trans
Normal x Normal = all normals




Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Hypo = the clutch would be 100%het hypo and 50% would hatch as leathers
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Translucent = the clutch would be 100% het for trans and 50% would hatch as leathers
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Hypo/Translucent = 50% would hatch as leathers and all would be het for hypo/trans
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback = a percentage would hatch as Silkbacks and any that didn't would hatch as leathers.


Hypo x Translucent = 100% het for hypo/trans
Hypo x Hypo/Translucent = all would hatch as visual hypos and would be 100% het trans
Hypo x Hypo = 100% visual hypos

Translucent x Hypo/Translucent = 100% visual trans that are all het for hypo
Translucent x Translucent = 100% visual trans.

Hypo/Translucent x Hypo/Translucent = 100% visual hypo/trans
 
Johnenewt1 said:
lol, c'moooon... noone wants to take a crack at it? Do you know how useful this would be for everyone if it was filled out?



John
Click to expand...

this response let me know that more than likely this person had no intentions of doing leg work to find out the information. So I figured I may as well answer their questions. Not like its anything they couldn't find out with a simple google search anyway. Dragon genetics aren't the beast that other reptiles are.
 
Not everyone has a backround in reptiles or genetics and to some people, even though bearded dragon genetics are very basic, they don't fully understand it...especially if they are new to it. I was just trying to have some fun with him as he did send me something privately that he was going to work on it. It's all good though.
 
Grey areas?

Hey Chris, are there ANY grey areas when it comes to genetics? you make it sound like it pretty clear cut and predictable. what about a combination on the rare side. imma pull an impossible combination here lol.. but say for example a 100% het for hypo american smoothie x ahhhh..... lets say a recessive leatherback partial trans? dont really know if thats possible but you get the idea. anything thats not really predictable. because i would think thre is at least a couple of combos that would be near impossible to predict. or am i just completely wrong?
 
Just a quick one

Just a quick from what I can work out a hypo or a trans that you breed with a normal dragon will give you 50% het hypo or trans not 100% the only way a dragon can be 100% is if you prove it out but if you breed two het hypos then you will get 50% het hypo 25% hypo and 25% normal any baby from a clutch like this should be called 66% het hypo

If I'm wrong then please let me know but I'm pretty sure I'm not
 
july08_2003 said:
Hey Chris, are there ANY grey areas when it comes to genetics? you make it sound like it pretty clear cut and predictable. what about a combination on the rare side. imma pull an impossible combination here lol.. but say for example a 100% het for hypo american smoothie x ahhhh..... lets say a recessive leatherback partial trans? dont really know if thats possible but you get the idea. anything thats not really predictable. because i would think thre is at least a couple of combos that would be near impossible to predict. or am i just completely wrong?
Click to expand...
The mathematical probabilities are cut and dry, but anything is possible.
 
Mert said:
Just a quick from what I can work out a hypo or a trans that you breed with a normal dragon will give you 50% het hypo or trans not 100%
Click to expand...


If you breed a visual hypo or trans to a normal dragon all offspring will be het for that trait. If you breed a het to a normal than you get the 50% possible.
 
Here is my shot at it-

Normal x OGG = Normals
Normal x Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback = 50% Normal, 50% Itla. Leather
Normal x Recessive Ital. Leatherback = Normals 100% het for Ital. Leather
Normal x Silkie = All Leathers
Normal x American Smoothie = 50% Normal 50% Leather
Normal x Hypo = Normals 100% het Hypo
Normal x Translucent = Normals 100% het Trans
Normal x Hypo/Translucent = Normals 100% dbl het HypoTrans
Normal x Normal = Normals

*Orange German Giant (OGG) is nothing but a marketing ploy now a days*

OGG x Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback = 50% Normal, 50% Leather
OGG x Recessive Ital. Leatherback = All Normals 100% het Leather
OGG x Silkie = All Leathers
OGG x American Smoothie = 50% Normals, 50% Leathers
OGG x Hypo = Normals 100% het Hypo
OGG x Translucent = Normals 100% het Trans
OGG x Hypo/Translucent = Normals 100% dbl het HypoTrans
OGG x OGG = Normals

Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Silkie = 50% Silkies, 50% Leathers
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x American Smoothie = 25% Silkie, 25% Normal, 50% Leather
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Hypo = 50% Normal, 50% Leather, all 100% het Hypo
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Translucent = 50% Normal, 50% Leather, all 100% het Trans
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Hypo/Translucent = 50% Normal, 50% Leather, all 100% dbl het HypoTrans
Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback x Co-dominant Ital. Leatherback = 25% Silkie, 25% Normal, 50% Leather

*Assuming your talking about a visual Recessive Ital. Leather*

Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Silkie = 100% Silkies
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x American Smoothie =
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Hypo = All 100% dbl het HypoLeather
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Translucent = All 100% dbl het TransLeather
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Hypo/Translucent = All 100% trpl het HypoTransLeather
Recessive Ital. Leatherback x Recessive Ital. Leatherback = All Leathers

Silkie x American Smoothie = 50% Silkie, 50% Leather
Silkie x Hypo = All Leathers 100% het Hypo
Silkie x Translucent = All Leathers 100% Trans
Silkie x Hypo/Translucent = All Leathers 100% dbl het HypoTrans
Silkie x Silkie = All Silkies

American Smoothie x Hypo = 50% Normals, 50% Leathers, all 100% het Hypo
American Smoothie x Translucent = 50% Normals, 50% Leathers, all 100% het Trans
American Smoothie x Hypo/Translucent = 50% Normals, 50% Leathers, all 100% dbl het HypoTrans
American Smoothie x American Smoothie = 25% Silkies, 25% Normals, 50% Leathers

Hypo x Translucent = Normals 100% dbl het HypoTrans
Hypo x Hypo/Translucent = All Hypos 100% het Trans
Hypo x Hypo = All Hypos

Translucent x Hypo/Translucent = All Trans 100% het Hypo
Translucent x Translucent = All Trans

Hypo/Translucent x Hypo/Translucent = All HypoTrans

I opted out the Recessive Leather to Co-Dom Leather because they are two completely different genes that exhibit similar traits if you were to breed a Co-Dom Leather to a Visual Rec. Leather you would get 50% Normals, 50% Leathers, all 100% het Leather, but breeding those to another Visual Rec. Leather would not necessarily yield Silkies.

Hope this helps.
 
Wow, times have changed and lines have changed in soooo many ways. I remember a time [ maybe they were being developed] when there were no leathers or trans. There WERE German Giants. Anybody remember redflames ? Sandfire yellows and reds were the fore runners of all on the market today. I am way out of touch with these " new" lines. The sandfires [ from Bob Mailloux ] were the ones that produced anything of color that we see today, and the redflame and German Giant [ Pete Weiss] also produced by Dragon's Den were what could be found on the market. O.G.G. blood is still out there...just been diluted and bred into other lines, which is a good thing, but it always was a viable blood line. Great job on bringing out what all the modern lines produce guys !
 
Is it possible that someday, trans and/or hypo will ever become dominant instead of recessive?

And seeing as I have a 733-735 gram dragon (on EMPTY), I'm going to say that OGGs are still around (she is a Chris red/OGG x Sandfire/blood)....
 
CourtneyLS said:
Is it possible that someday, trans and/or hypo will ever become dominant instead of recessive?

And seeing as I have a 733-735 gram dragon (on EMPTY), I'm going to say that OGGs are still around (she is a Chris red/OGG x Sandfire/blood)....
Click to expand...

Unless a new Hypo/Trans gene is discovered, then no it will not happen. It would be like saying will Albinism or Blue Eyes will ever become a co-dom/dom trait.

In the beginning Bearded Dragons were not very healthy. They were little and most died before the age of two. Then in Germany they discovered an "orange phase" that was robust and larger then the regulars. This gene became known as OGG. It was then bred into all the other morphs to create a much stronger, healthier bearded dragon gene pool. I have a 700 gram male that has no OGG in his blood lines. Therefore yes the "gene" is still around but really it doesnt do anything anymore.
 
Hey guys,

So if I have a nice normal phase big boy who is ready to breed and wanted to try for some "visual" morphs right off the bat out of the first clutch i ever hatch with this normal phase male, what type of female should I BUY and anybody have any offers?

Please explain as I saw it the only way to get visuals on using a normal to any morph on the first clutch is to get a leatherback?

Correct me if I am wrong as if I can do better no matter how much the female morph I choose to purchase and breed to my monster normal male is, it will be worth it to me if I can get something visual then just "hets" for?

PLEASE HELP, Looking to pickup my "morph" female breeder in the next week or two.

Thanks Guys & Dolls,
Steve & Amy

BTW: If anything I said, sounded "off base" please correct ME! I want to get in to breeding but really would love to get my first beardie ever's bloodline involved somehow as although I only ever owned him, I been and held hundreds and his temperament is so unique or maybe I am BIAS.
 
Well, yes and no. Yes, a codominant or dominant trait is pretty much mandatory for "guaranteed" visual morph offspring. So in that regard, you are looking at a leatherback. But there is a lot of line breeding involved when dealing with coloration and very often a poorly colored animal (or in this case, a normal) can produce vibrantly colored hatchlings when paired with the "right" mate.

There are definitely genetic components when working with color, pattern, texture, size, virility, etc but you can definitely work with a normal boy to produce some nice hatchlings. Definitely go for a robust female though. Health is so much more important than looks in the long run! :)
 
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